Who Gets Into Valhalla

[@williameichmann3037]

"To pretend otherwise is just to distort what our sources say." Love that line. Spot on, as always.

[@Stephanthesearcher]

going to valhalla was not some favour from the gods, a reward for living his life a certain way. valhalla is a recruitment and training ground for a army, a army that will be needed at the end of days to preserve the future of mankind. understanding this will answer the question of woman getting there because they died at childbirth. it makes no sense whatsoever.

[@skyworm8006]

Yes, all warriors sent to Valhalla (and co.) will die during Ragnarok anyway. That's what they're there for, fatalism is a very strong theme. It's unclear what death means because as Mr. Jackson says it was not systematic. It's more likely the the baseline belief was reincarnation of the soul or parts of it in some way, as it is for all Indoeuropean religions. Hel possibly being some other belief expanded into a default afterlife type of thing, maybe from Christian influence. Valhalla and several other locations (possibly dozens) being special places you go to, to await Ragnarok (before dying fully or continuing to reincarnate). Ragnarok isn't the ultimate end, as with everything else it's cyclical (also why lacking reincarnation doesn't fit the theme). Other kinds of death include somehow remaining in Midgard, likely as a spirit. Probably they don't think of death and persons in such mechanical, logical and individualist terms. So it's hard to know how they reasoned and what they believed. What a person's death and soul actually meant.

[@JohnBrownsBody]

Yeah it’s honestly pretty interesting - it really seems like this misconception has come about via neo-pagans who, coming from a Christian worldview, equate Norse afterlives with Christian ones and so think that going to Valhalla is the same as going into heaven. Since we don’t live in a martial society anymore, then some sort of broadening the rules is allowed so that modern lifestyles can be compatible with getting into that version of heaven despite it having no basis in the source material.

[@childofbadb]

Thank you very much for uploading this. Of late, I've seen a slew of people stating incorrect information and have been looking for a reputable source to whom they can be referred.

[@calreese5395]

Ref - 3:07 - Another potential origin for the common misconception that the Old Norse believed women who died in childbirth would go to Valhalla is from Pre-Columbian Aztec (Mexica) culture. The Aztecs considered childbirth a kind of battle and would honor a woman who died in childbirth the same way they would a fallen warrior. According to Aztec mythology these women would become malevolent spirits who, along with the spirits of fallen warriors, would guide the sun west thus making the sun set. The Aztec connection between war and childbirth can also be seen in Cihuacoatl, a goddess associated not only war & victory, but also fertility, childbirth & midwives.

[@jeryek13]

I think people also tend to forget or not know that Hel and other European pagan "underworlds" aren't as bad as the christian hell...

[@wuwei87]

What makes the distinction even foggier is this modern Protestant interpretation of Hell (but then Protestants have been getting everything wrong for the last 500 years). Christianity very much has the concept of Hades/Sheol, which is roughly the equivalent of Hel and other underworlds, only without an apparent deity to rule over it. "Hell", the lake of fire, will not exist until Judgment Day, according to Christian eschatology.

[@elgranlugus7267]

Also in the Bible, the sheol is nothing more than the grave itself. Basically the place where we are buried.

[@TheRealNeonwarrior]

@@wuwei87 I know this comment is 2 years old, but could you explain what you mean by Protestants getting everything wrong for the last 500 years? As someone who grew up Protestant but left the faith some time ago, I always thought Protestants got the most things right of the various Christian flavors compared to the extra-Biblical rituals and ancestor veneration of the Catholic church.

[@wuwei87]

@@TheRealNeonwarrior Scripture itself teaches against sola scriptura; for one, it stresses the need for the authority of the Church. There are also numerous passages that are paraphrases of and direct references to oral Jewish stories that were never codified in the Bible. The Bible as we know it didn't exist for almost 400 years after Christ's crucifixion, but Christians worshipped during that time, mostly by relying on icons, priestly teachings, and the books that did exist then (which were read and interpreted by priests seeing as how most people were illiterate). The traditions of the Church are necessary for Christians, otherwise they are missing crucial elements of their faith. The Protestant Reformation also, because of the influence of secular materialism, flattened Christian cosmology which had been respected and recognized for over 1500 years, so other crucial things went missing: angelic hierarchies & the communion of saints. Protestants also don't understand that intercessory prayer and iconography are not "idol worship" and were never considered such. Again, the Christian cosmos is remarkably multifaceted and multi-tiered, but secularism has all but killed that view. Fundamentalism is also Protestant and it's literally a materialistic way of interpreting the Bible, which was written before science existed and was never meant to describe the world in scientific terms.

[@TheRealNeonwarrior]

@@wuwei87 Thank you. In my Methodist church, they taught of a concept called "prima scriptura," that the scriptures are held above all else, but can be safely interpreted through other means such as reason and the study of history or church teachings. This didn't seem to different to me than the Catholic treatment of the Bible. Would you say modern Catholicism is similar to ancient pre-bible Christianity? What about medieval Catholicism?

[@kniter]

when you think about it, if Valhall's purpose to house the future warriors of Odin, it doesnt really make sense that women who die in childbirth go there. But Ive heard about folkvangr, are there any poems about that and why it exist beside Valhall.

[@Tina06019]

kniter I had heard that Folksvangr is the place of honor in the afterlife for faithful spouses and for women who have died especially honorably, and those who die in childbirth. But I think it likely this is a modern idea.

[@miro.georgiev97]

I've also heard the Fólkvangr might just be a synonym for Valholl.

[@punchysonichu5395]

@@Tina06019 I have never heard that before today; is it a common misconception? What sources have you encountered it in? kniter, from what I understand, the only Old Norse source on Folkvangr is the poem Grímnismál, and that poem tells us only that Freyja takes dead warriors there. Sadly, anything else you hear about it is either speculation or wholesale modern fabrication.

[@punchysonichu5395]

I don't know Dr Crawford's views on author and non-academic folklorist Daniel McCoy, but McCoy seems to be very careful with his work (even citing Dr Crawford a few times!), so here's a link for you. norse-mythology.org/folkvang/

[@AnonymousPsych]

Could one not argue that a (somewhat understandable) conflation of Hel and Hell - nudging the norse Hel in the direction of a negative counter to the Heavenly Valhǫll - may have contributed to this misunderstanding? Combined with a wish to have the system be just, that is? Just a thought. Wonderful video as always. Thank you very much dr. Crawford.

[@anotherelvis]

In one of the earlier videos Jackson Crawford mentioned that a feast was prepared in Hel, when Baldr died, so at least Hel was a place where you could feast. Perhaps the early version of Hel wasn't as negative as Snorri describes it. (I don't remember of the idea of Hel seems to have changed during the viking age or if Snorri was colored by his christian beliefs)

[@ProjectThunderclaw]

@@anotherelvis The Dr. Crawford made a whole video after the afterlife in Norse myth, but the short version is that it's just very unclear. The word "hel" sometimes seems to refer to "death" or "the grave" generally with no mythological undertones, sometimes it seems to refer to the afterlife in general possibly including valhalla, sometimes it refers to the literal grave where the dead seem to just hang out, sometimes the dead can travel through the grave between the realm of hel and the ordinary human world... With so many seemingly incompatible interpretation, it's hard to say if they represent different stages of belief, different contemporaneous traditions, if some of the references are strictly euphemistic etc., and how much of it is just Snorri being Snorri.

[@nkhtn663]

This is the video in question (Part 1 is some general afterlife beliefs; part 2 in the series covers Valhǫll), if anyone needs a link: kzbin.info/www/bejne/jH63dnmwlp6Ia9U

[@derrickbonsell]

Yeah, I don't find it useful to treat Valhalla as Heaven and Hell as Hel. If you don't actually enjoy battle why would you enjoy fighting every day? That's not a paradise.

[@Thornspyre]

@AnonymousPsych Also Saxo's description of Hel is nowhere near so bleak and grim as Snorri''s is I have neither the encyclopaedic knowledge nor a good enough memory to tell you exactly where to find this other than in Saxo Grammaticus History of the Danes Books I to IX, but *if* my memory isnt failing me atm he describes a land of eternal springtime for Hel Other assumptions and musings to consider (not facts) Each God and Goddess seems to have a hall (Odin even has a second one, maybe more), we _could_ assume they bear similar names to the names presented in the Poetic Edda, but must also assume the names may have been different and of course that many have also been forgotten/lost Either way Valhall cannot be said to be the *only* heaven (if we must use that word at all), we should surely assume that there is a hall/place for at the very least each deity, and that some Deities may have more than one. Something else i shall place alongside my other non-facts, simply because i cannot remember where i read this - Isnt Hel where everyone goes, and then some are "collected" (for want of a better word) by their chosen Deity *if* their deity feels this person has served them well? By which i mean Hel is the default for all who die, but heroic deeds and things relating to a specific deitys "spheres of influence" (like for example a new technique for increasing the yield of crops may impress Thor and Sif, or writing a great many awesome skaldic poems may impress Bragi etc) Always more questions than answers And with some of us interested in the history and scholarly facts, and some of us interested in the faith/spirituality side of things, and some of course interested in both, its easy to see why so many interpretations and opinions abound, and with no potential new archaeological find on the horizon, we still got the same few answers

[@Rehvidepaigaldus]

I'm so freaking anxious for the Wanderers Havamal I cant wait anymore - it's the freaking start of September, feels like I've waited for 10 years

[@volfgangtwins]

Fascinating! We really enjoy your research! ⚔️⚔️

[@reddeath7997]

Man every time I hear that spaghetti western music I feel like I'm watching a Clint Eastwood movie...

[@robpetoletti826]

So if Ragnar, "even though he was a great warrior and fought in numerous battles", died in a snake pit, would he be denied entrance into Valhalla since it was not in physical battle?

[@kniter]

He would, he was favored by Odin to kill many warriors, and Odin used him to create more war.

[@inregionecaecorum]

Tony curtis threw him a sword though, so it's fine.

[@GiderTheGreat]

Håkon the Good didn't directly die in battle but bled out on an island after being fatally struck by an arrow yet he's shown entering valhalla in Hákonarmál

[@Correctrix]

Did Jackson stutter?

[@TacticalSquirrel]

He was slained, so yes.

[@markcash2]

We no longer go to Hell, now we go to Stjordal or Trondheim. The only place to eat in Hell is the restaurant in the Scandic Hell Hotel.

[@colinp2238]

In England in the late 80s or early 90s there was a case of a man arrested for carrying a sword in public. In the UK it is illegal to carry a non-locking pocket knife with a blade over 3 inches. He was a self styled Viking and his defence was that he would not be allowed in Valhalla if he should die without his sword. I looked into this knowing that the sword was not the primary weapon of the Vikings and apparently it comes from the 1950's Kirk Douglas film The Vikings.

[@inregionecaecorum]

Actually it is a legitimate defence for Sikhs to carry a dagger "to defend the faith"

[@AsDeadAsDillinger]

@@inregionecaecorum _"it is a legitimate defence for Sikhs to carry a dagger "_ The same holds true for Scotsmen wearing their national dress. The 'Sgian-dubh' is often worn in the sock.

[@Floral_Green]

Ah, so it’s just the Eternal Anglo that needs a licence to own a pair of plastic scissors these days.

[@masonclark9110]

He was probably just on his way to west ham 😂😂

[@Ggdivhjkjl]

​@@inregionecaecorum It is considered offensive to refer to the kirpan as a dagger. It is a sword, even if it may be short.

[@Monkey-Boy2006]

I've read your edition of Havamal twice...it's awesome!

[@HonourableHusband]

Greatly appreciated the excursion into Classical Greek history. The ability to tie up strands of ancient history is rare, and valuable. Perhaps you should consider expanding the scope of the channel to comparative mythology. Even more, comparative philology-there’s a great deal of opinionated guff written in linguistic circles, and it would be a true service to your viewers to do some myth-busting. Keep up the good work. Also, nice haircut.

[@hoonterofhoonters6588]

You mean "mythmyth busting? Myths about myths?

[@Ravynwulf]

I'm excitedly waiting for your Havamal translation to be available for purchase. Was Sept now Nov. I'm really hoping there will be a hardback version.

[@nkhtn663]

There is, and it's available for preorder as well: www.amazon.com/Wanderers-Havamal-Jackson-Crawford/dp/1624668429/

[@mattd8725]

I've heard about the Mayan goddess Ixtab providing an express track to paradise for people who died in various ways including battle and childbirth. But it seems that the material there is way less complete than even for Odin or Hel.

[@andytuesday500]

Thank you 🙏

[@williamdewey9568]

I've come across a theory that Valholl is a kenning for dying in battle and the body not returning to the mound. Much like a death at sea was attributed to going to Ran's realm. Thoughts?

[@ShinseiWarujima]

@@amandav5402 I have literally never once seen anything mention that Odin _only_ takes those of regal blood. Maybe stuff where it's mentioned that regal blooded people are his favourites, but nothing that mentions he *only* takes regal blooded people.

[@stephenrichey8487]

QUESTION about Shield Maidens in this context: The Saga of King Heidrek the Wise tells how a Shield Maiden named Hervor (named after her famous Shield Maiden grandmother) was killed in action while fighting bravely to defend her people against the Huns. So, yes, she was a warrior; yes, she died heroically in battle from a wound inflicted with a weapon; but also yes, she was female not male. So--did she go to Valhalla or didn't she?

[@mrjones2721]

The internal logic suggests that she would. It sounds less like women were forbidden than that only warriors could go, and because war was an almost exclusively male pursuit, people talked in terms of men going to Valhalla. Figuring out why shield maidens were overlooked is a question for a different video, one I haven’t watched yet.

[@stephenrichey8487]

@@mrjones2721 I concur, thanks.

[@markadams7597]

Brilliant points! Ty. So, do the medieval source(s) suggest, even marginally, who services the warrior-men in Valhalla? I mean, who pours the drinks, cooks and serves the food each evening? Is that service more Valkyries' work? Great video, you have me thinking about Valhalla custom, courtesy, and logistics...

[@kylewernli9577]

Can explain the concept of Helgafell "Holy Mountain" sacred to Thor in Iceland ?

[@Tommy1977777]

Love these classes!

[@rjwasser8312]

Hey Dr. Crawford, out of curiosity, what’re your thoughts on Folkvangr? Any chance you could discuss that sometime?

[@kaldheimknight]

I've heard the Spartan thing about women dying on childbirth getting a tombstone (which is apparently not accurate) but have never heard anyone claim that the same would apply to Valhalla. I wonder who was the first person to put that idea out? and why?

[@AmarothEng]

Fun fact: there are some talks I cannot really comfirm from the standpoint of an expert which claim Spartans were unlikely to be much better in warfare than other main Greek city states. What we think of Sparta today might be in its majority only an extremely successful propaganda Spartans spread about themselves, in order to make themselves legendary to the point of noone wanting to mess with them. Whether this is true and to what degree doesn't matter - the very notion of that is hilarious, sounds very real to me though.

[@commandershepard5450]

Can’t wait for your rendition of the prose edda

[@jeffhouse9387]

I have planned a vacation where me, my Stetson and 1967 Winchester ride horses with Doc. Crawford discussing viking things. It'd be a good vacation.

[@tinderbox4690]

Good morning, Doctor Crawford! I was hoping you'd be able to disclose the dimensions of your Wanderer's Hávamál hardcover edition. Thanks, and I wish you all the best.

[@rae3859]

Out of curiosity I managed to find the dimensions on Barnes and Noble's website for the hardcover: 6.50(w) x 1.50(h) x 9.50(d) -> 208 pages. Softcover: 6.00(w) x 1.25(h) x 9.00(d) -> 216 pages. (I hope you don't mind my input btw!)

[@harjutapa]

What's really fascinating about this is that it seems like the very best fighters wouldn't get into Valhalla, if they were to survive to old age. Makes me wonder if older norse men ever decided to go on "one last raid" hoping to be taken out in combat.

[@ShinseiWarujima]

While there's no confirmation of that, that's almost undoubtedly the case.

[@rileyferrell4617]

I remember seeing a grave find in repton englad they dound a viking soldier who was killed in battle and aftwr some research on his skeleton they determined he was in his fifties and he had a very bad tooth that was rotten and he had a very bad back. So in a way that grave find kinda shows this particular guy who was getting old with a bad back died in battle at repton. So it’s possible that some older men wanted valhalla and he chose to die in battle. But im just giving a theory so who knows

[@setitheredcap2677]

The prose Edda says some of Odin's selection go to Valhalla and some go to Vingolf? Can you elaborate on this more? Is their a distinction on whom goes to which, as both feature those that have died in battle?

[@michaelwheeler7293]

I was a Marine when a brother or sister died we'd always say till Valhalla. Now I'm a corrections officer and we say the same thing.

[@FingonNZ]

Thanks for another great video. Is there any indication that those who were regarded as "other" or "non-Viking or non-Scanadanavian" (in the absence of a better way to express it) were also drawn into Valhalla?

[@souledge1212]

I'd like to know this, as well.

[@TenkaFubu]

No, since they would not have been a part of their culture.

[@Floral_Green]

Are you as curious as to whether any old fool could mosey on in to the afterlife of, say, a Sub-Saharan African folk religion, for example?

[@FingonNZ]

@@Floral_Green Yes in a general sense of the interface between religions, mythology & culture and how it influences those beliefs and customs. It's a fascinating field of comparative study. I'm currently trying to read Ibn Rustah in the original but my Arabic is pretty poor! I'm not greatly familiar with Sub-Saharan mythology - do you mean specifically the West African sub-Saharan or more generically anything from Zanj to the Niger-Congo? Thanks for asking.

[@jacknightwinters3480]

Excellent content and wonderful natural background as always. Glad to have you in Boulder. I'd love to hear your thoughts on a conlang (constructed language) called Anglican.

[@ladyalfhildrforestofvioletmist]

Now, presumably whomever I had heard this from was misinformed, but I had heard that there was another option other than Valhalla or Helheim that was for sailors who had died at sea: they were taken in by Njord. Do you have any idea where that story came from? Are people just assuming that any patron deity of anything can have a designated afterlife for people who die doing something related to them? Was there a story where Njord took in a specific sailor and then that story just got extrapolated?

[@heimerblaster976]

Well done its good to know from the source of the culture it self what is known about a particular aspect of a belief system.

[@emilbecker8970]

Cool intro keep up the good work

[@gerudo849]

What about Folkvang?

[@jockep-j4035]

Had a short argument with a friend earlier in this subject. It’s people who die in battle regardless religious beliefs that goes to Valhalla right?

[@EUGEN093]

Greetings from Belarussia

[@game-enjoyer13]

I’ve been told that Valhalla is really not ideal. They say it’s really a training camp with odin preparing for ragnarok, or whatever battle he would need you for. It is constant, bloody battling with your fellow warriors, dying, being brought back, fighting, rinse and repeat. The Only break being to occasionally feast with odin. But that’s it. 24/7 brutal fighting. And then HEL is where the “normal” afterlifes are. One side being an eternal life with peace and serenity, and the other being an eternal life of suffering and torment. Kinda the equivalent of “Heaven or Hell” Except they both are seperate sections of one place, Hel. And then some other people say that there’s ANOTHER option. You can spiritually, i guess that’s the word, “choose” a god you want to devote your life to MORE than the other gods, and when you die, you will be sent to the hall of that particular god. Like a more specific valhalla/hel mix. Not constantly fighting, but also not like hel. Just you and fellow *god name* patrons enjoying the afterlife with *God name* So from of what i’ve been told, without any deeper research or anything, is that you can: 1.) Die in the military and join Odin in Valhalla ONLY if it’s what you’re really into and want to do with your life (it’s your choice. You can choose to go to hel) 2.) Go to hel, and be sent to the peaceful or torturous sections depending on how good a person you were in life. 3.) choose a patron god and honor them more than the other gods, and go to their own hall.

[@christopherrowley7506]

where is the evidence that Hel is split into peaceful and torturous realms? sounds like a christian desire for there to be some kind of 'justice' in the afterlife based on your deeds of this life. As far as I'm aware there is no concept of that norse belief.

[@nkhtn663]

@@christopherrowley7506 I can't speak for where it's being pulled from in this instance, but usually the "split" idea leads back to the mention of Nástrǫnd in Vǫluspa 37-38, which Snorri later cites in Gylfaginning-- interestingly I don't see Hel being ever specifically mentioned as the location, but he follows up with a Hvergelmir mention, the door's facing North, and Nástrǫnd means something like "corpse shore," and dead people are mentioned as being there. That said, as Dr. Crawford mentions, Snorri was trying to create something like a cohesive canon from what was likely a number of varied beliefs, and the Vǫluspa lines only mention "oathbreakers, murderers, and those who seduce other's lovers" as being there, so it's not really a great analogy even with what we get in the medieval sources-- Dr. Crawford's series on the afterlife ( kzbin.info/www/bejne/jH63dnmwlp6Ia9U ) and Hel ( kzbin.info/www/bejne/bKPCmoOHdpepkNk ) cover a lot of the ambiguities and variations, in case those help anyone out.

[@christopherrowley7506]

@@nkhtn663 good points

[@TensorCalculusRobertDavie]

Thanks for this informative video.

[@devonnicole6946]

I would love to learn more about norse mythology and Scandinavian history. What are your book or article recommendations? I have access to Jstor through my university library, but the library itself has only a small section of books on the subject.

[@nkhtn663]

Dr. Crawford actually has a video on his Norse book recommendations at kzbin.info/www/bejne/hpzPd3iMq8SXqM0 , and additional resources in his "Starting Old Norse Studies" video, which includes a list of other good academic authors he recommends as well (I suspect they'll all be on JSTOR, but most have an academia.edu presence as well): kzbin.info/www/bejne/nZuogWakjNeHpNk

[@qwertyy716]

I’m going to be honest I’m here because I played the new assassins creed Valhalla and it sparked my curiosity as to what all the references in the game mean and I love it

[@calcaleb7041]

Bro don’t play that game 😂 like seriously as a fellow heathen that game is a joke I thought it’s fun but after the first play through you realize that was the most boring bs task game ever

[@AshGreen359]

Is it true that Freya got first pick of the battle slain?

[@tiagosnook2659]

No, generally speaking spawn of aesir and more serious einherji go to Valhalla . Freya, and here vanir go to folkvanger, the other hall of the slain where Freya rules

[@AshGreen359]

@@tiagosnook2659 Yeah I figured it was some fluff I read a long time ago

[@anonanon2667]

I’ve always wondered about misspellings through the century’s. Is it possible that Andy Warhol’s last name once would have been similar to Valholl?

[@GaryDunion]

Hey I know it's two years later but I've just started watching Dr Crawford's videos! Anyway, thought you might be interested in what I understand to be the etymology of Warhol. Andy Warhol's father, Ondrej Warhola, was of the Lemko ethnic group from the Slovakian-Polish border. The Lemko language is very closely related to Ukrainian and indeed the surname Warhola is also found among non-Lemko Ukrainians. It apprently means "quarrel" or "trouble."

[@pickoffking]

After Jackson fades out at the end, what the heck is going on at the far side of the lake. Center and Center left.

[@samuelperezgarcia]

What about shieldmaidens who died in battle?

[@Floral_Green]

Mate, they didn’t even exist. Shield-maidens are a meme.

[@oneukum]

Is there credible support that those killed at sea go to Rán, or is that an urban legend?

[@BelindaCowell]

I have been looking for an answer to this question, too.

[@tiagosnook2659]

Oliver Neukum those who die by sea in any way, go to the sea goddess ran and her husband aegir. This is because ran is a scavenger, and all souls that enter her realm get trapped within her net. Tis not an urban legend, but an old fact

[@tiagosnook2659]

Belinda Cowell hope that helps

[@juliaconnell]

lol - either I've very ignorant - or too well informed (partly by this channel) - never considered possibility of women in childbirth going to Valhalla - simply not part of my understanding of this concept)

[@aubreyreed5046]

Valhalla, she is calling! I have never read anywhere that women can't go to Valhalla. But it seems like I never read that they cant. It would seem Odin would want a the best fighting force possible for he does want to win. Why would he cut off a percentage of his soldiers? I would assume a woman dying a childbirth would be sent to a different hall of Asgard. But not the hall of heroes. My input in here anyway. Good lesson and video

[@andrewking2494]

could you do a video about ragnarok, and I have question about the events after ragnarok. Tarvaa the baard on youtube mentions that after the events of ragnarok that the surviving gods seek guidance from the runes and says that they suggest that there is a place above azgard called ginley and that there dwells a mighty lord that will take them in? Was curious if that had any manuscript evidence.

[@thrownswordpommel7393]

That place is Gimle, it's mentioned in Völuspá.

[@andrewking2494]

Thrown Sword Pommel I didn’t realize he already had a video about it and mentioned it. So my question was already answered. Hahaha.

[@covenof2]

You said "All the rest of us are doomed to Hel", but aren't there other halls and several other options of what happen to people when they die in Norse culture?

[@joelseph]

From what I've read it depends. I'd you die at sea you to to njords hall, sickness or old age you go to niflheim (what he's calling hell, in actuality Hel is the queen of niflheim it isnt what its called) dying in battle leads to Valhalla

[@TheRealNeonwarrior]

@@joelseph No, Hel is both a goddess and a realm, similar to how Hades is both a god and a realm in Greek mythology.

[@mirkwoodwand]

Curious about this because Ragnar died via snake, but was said to go to Valholl, yes? Is that because he died technically by the hands of an enemy, even if it wasn't by a technical 'weapon' but via snake?

[@mirkwoodwand]

@@northernfist7209 Pretty sure it's based off the Saga of Ragnar Lothbrok which is not a TV show where he did die in the exact same way and, in the Saga, was said to go to Valholl.

[@mirkwoodwand]

I'm asking about the saga, not the television show.

[@Blóðúlfur]

@@northernfist7209 and Gods may not exist, where is your point dude? if we talk about myths you can't just say, "but that is fictional"

[@nkhtn663]

This is just my take, but there does at least seem to be some variant stories of men getting into Valholl: Ragnar as you mention, but also the family that jumps off a cliff in Gautreks saga, and Sinfjǫtli in Saga of the Vǫlsungs, who gets poisoned but gets a free boat ride to Valhǫll from Óðinn himself. It's definitely not cohesive, but the particular issue with the childbirth entry is that even in the variant cases, there's still no women ever mentioned as going, and there's just absolutely nothing in the medieval sources or even really any sourcing as to when the childbirth idea starts to come up in myth books (I think I found something back in the 1700s, but it still was just the statement with no clue as to where or when the belief'd emerged). So just based on what we have, I'd say women in general going to Valhǫll is still *possible,* just highly unlikely since we have no surviving texts that indicate that, but the "giving birth gets you in" idea just really doesn't have *anything* behind it to indicate it was at any point a pre-Christian Norse belief.

[@BjornOdinsson1]

If I remember the saga I do believe they tossed a sword in with Ragnar because it was his last request so he could go to Valhalla but I could be mistaken

[@LeoxandarMagnus]

I wonder just how much these conceptions of the afterlife affected Norse society and individuals.

[@abigailsaoirsefinnegan]

That moment when this pops up after listening to Amon Amarth and Tyr

[@ormwoden9311]

Dr. Crawford or anyone else who may know an answer. I was curious to know if any old norse script of rune stones use any characters for numbers? Such as dates or figures

[@rogue9417]

Are there dragons there like in HTTYD

[@nathanaelsallhageriksson1719]

Kid you not, we litteraly where taught in school (in sweden) that women who died in child birth went to valhalla. At least my teacher did.

[@Floral_Green]

That sounds plausible to me. Much more likely than ‘the only way for a woman to pass to the afterlife is to LARP as a man instead of attempting to create new life’. Based.

[@guyh.4553]

Interesting doc!

[@wickettheewok7356]

So I gess if I live a normal life and not being a soldier il go to Hel

[@Son_Daughter_of_Slaanesh]

soooo what about Fólkvangr?

[@inregionecaecorum]

I watched Kirk Douglas and Ernest Borgnine in the Vikings, I know all there is to know about how to get to Valhalla, gotta die with a sword in the hand and hope it is not the Valkyries day off innit.

[@Bluebelle51]

that was such a fun movie, it used to be on KZbin but they took it down **le sigh**

[@Privateer_24]

Did Freya take everyone else to her fields of eternity? It would make sense since she got first dibs on the battlefield before Odin.

[@ianmagee6651]

I wonder whether the notion of women going to might be influenced by chapter 79 of Egil’s Saga, where Thorgerd expresses the belief that on her death she will join Freyja (engan hefi eg náttverð haft, og engan mun eg fyrr en að Freyju). Given the ambiguous relationship between Fólkvangr and Valhǫll, I can see how they might become conflated in the modern imagination. Or maybe that is where drengiligr women go...

[@mmiYTB]

There's also Harbardsljod, where Thor is said to have army of thralls. So it is not impossible that people went to the hall of the god they followed.

[@zenosAnalytic]

I wonder how much of this is also projecting the xian formation of a "good" and "bad" afterlife onto the Norse, and then from that ppl distributing this culturally common analogy(men=battlefield::women=birthingbed) into the same, "good", afterlife. Also: is there any evidence that men "weapon-killed" outside of battle, like those murdered, also went to valholl? I've never heard of there being any, but I have zero xp with the primary sources.

[@sladechimera2837]

I didn't realize they had a hell in opposition to Valhalla as opposed to just ceasing to exist. What do they call this hell and how do they describe it?

[@nkhtn663]

He's actually not referring to it as a 'hell' like the Christian Hell, or in 'opposition' to Valholl-- it's just another Norse afterlife destination/belief known as Hel (as is the name of the goddess who oversees it, according to the Prose Edda); I believe both names come from a root meaning 'hidden'. Dr. Crawford does have a good introductory video on the afterlife in Norse myth which covers most of the basic concepts here: kzbin.info/www/bejne/jH63dnmwlp6Ia9U as well as an older one specifically on Hel at this link: kzbin.info/www/bejne/bKPCmoOHdpepkNk

[@sladechimera2837]

@@nkhtn663 thanks, I'll check them out

[@KaiseaWings]

Not disputing you - but what about Folkvangr? Apparently Egil's Saga there is mention made of a woman who starves herself to death and thereby goes to Folkvangr, and a 70s author by the name of Britt-Mari Näsström says that Folkvangr is therefore open to all women who die a noble death. But perhaps she just made it up? This is just wikipedia after all.

[@Uncle_Jenny]

Eleven minutes and no word about Freyja who took half of the men who died in battle to Fólkvangr and even got the first pick. She also welcomed woman who died a noble death.

[@digimon916]

Was just watching the movie "the 13th warrior", and here i am 😂

[@silverkitty2503]

Sir your video is interesting. But have you considered looking at the archealogical evidence rather than written sources from largely local beliefs rather than national and written a long time afterwards?? Most boys in norse graves are buried as warriors and with weapons? I feel written sources are highly biased.

[@dershogun6396]

Are there any opinions in the inscriptions of the old norse religion what happens to people who believe in other gods or no gods or what the gods or the norsemenn thought about them ?

[@captain42979]

How serious should we take any of these stories? Do you think they contain some truth that just got messed up?

[@magecraft2]

What about Shieldmaidens does this have any effect on this?

[@Vikingjack1]

great post

[@michaelnewby3898]

What about Óđinn conversation with Víđarr? “Vidar, I will tell you more. I, living amongst men, have married the daughter of a hero. My son shall live as a mortal amongst mortals. his name shall be Sigi. Heroes shall spring from him who will fill Valhalla, my own hall in Asgard, with heroes in preparation for the day of our war with the Giants and with Surtur of the Flaming Sword.” Yes, out of the narrative everything you've said is true, I just wish some people would just stop trying to add their narratives to make it fit their lives.

[@nkhtn663]

Well, the issue with that conversation is that it never happened in the medieval sources-- as far as I can tell the quote's only found in "Children of Odin" by Padraic Colum, which is a children's compilation of myths from 1920. While it pulls from the Eddas and sagas, it's a retelling much like Neil Gaiman's Norse Mythology, not a translation, and so the option for artistic licence and changing things is there. (Which is fine, but not the same as the actual source texts.) AFAIK the only attested line Óðinn ever says to Víðarr is Lokasenna 10, regarding pouring Loki a drink-- I believe Dr. Crawford's video on Víðarr covers all his attestations, if that's helpful at all: kzbin.info/www/bejne/lYvClKWGp5hnl9E

[@daneurismx4115]

So is hel supposed to be a bad place? Is there anything written about it being like a place of punishment?

[@mjdjoy]

No, Hel is not an afterlife of punishment. Not the Christian hell

[@kylewernli9577]

Hell is actually the Anglo Saxon word for Hel that got turned into the Christian Hell ideology

[@gurunpetreagunnarsdottir8192]

Fræðilegt...takk fyrir 👍

[@jonathanjensen189]

That's quite the view...

[@namesurname7387]

im in, ive seen the spawns of HEL

[@Ossian-dr1vr]

Nice shirt!

[@digitalbrentable]

What about a man executed with a weapon, not in battle? Or did they not have capital punishment?

[@stantorren4400]

you have to die in battle

[@MagnusItland]

You were normally not executed but declared an outlaw and anyone could kill you (typically relatives of those you had wronged). So you might still die by weapon and wielding weapons. On the other hand your enemies were not required to show any such consideration. They could burn down the house in the night for instance.

[@johnhill9595]

What an amazing shirt.

[@ericcordry123]

Stumbled across this on complete accident as an asatru and geeked out when you read the original Greek. Geeked out even harder when you mentioned my Greek professor, Luke. Greetings from Albuquerque and tell him Eric the Viking says hi if you talk to him soon.

[@ericcordry123]

Mike M from Albuquerque NM

[@barrywinkleheinz4622]

So like do you need to die holding a sword to get into Valhalla or just a wealon you've killed with?

[@warrenvonschmidt3574]

Curiously then, a *successful* warrior who survived all his battles and died in old age presumably wouldn't go to Valhalla either.

[@derrickbonsell]

What aspect of Valhalla is supposed to even be a paradise for women who die in childbirth?

[@Serenity_Dee]

I have been unable to watch any popular modern production of dramas based on modern ideas of Viking-era Scandinavia because they consistently write about Valhalla as if it's the Christian Heaven.

[@nordfreiheit]

I'd really be interested in hearing what you have to say about Fólkvangr. Also, do you think that Christian influences may have had an impact on deleting or erasing the recording of woman warriors in Viking history? Considering that Viking myth does have goddess warriors, including giants and valkyries, it seems odd to me that there wouldn't be women warriors who also went to Valhöll.

[@random120]

Listen to the second video he has on the afterlife he talks about Folkvangr.

[@elfarlaur]

Keep in mind that just like in the Greek context of Athena and Amazons as warriors, these beings are not human or at least they are characterized by their foreignness. Thus it's not that weird that they would have female warriors even if the culture talking about them only had them rarely.

[@Floral_Green]

Sounds like somebody’s been taking power-fantasy depictions of women in media to heart. They didn’t include them because they very, very rarely existed. Accept reality as it is, lad.

[@GnosticAtheist]

Interesting.

[@valhoundmom]

Odd, I was always told women who died. In childbirth among the Norse went to hel or with Hel to the next place.

[@FlameHashiraAries]

dude where is everyone getting the childbirth thing from?

[@Nurriek]

Hey Doctor. Thanks for your insight. I have really been enjoying your videos as of late. I'm curious as to if we have any ancient norse sources about the Shieldmaidens? I understand that instances of Shieldmaidens were fairly uncommon but not unheard of, and so I'm wondering if a Shieldmaiden may have received different treatment. Was she treated more "masculinely" and are there any exceptions to her admittance to Valhalla? I don't expect an answer, but thank you in advance if you do. Love the vids.

[@MsVegasguy]

My understanding was that Sigurd Ring, denied a battle death, summoned the Valkyries by carving runes into his flesh, and fully expected to attain Valhol. I think it's important to note that the Eddas are certainly not seen as "Sacred Texts" by most modern Asatruar. More like a collection of dimly remembered, heavily redacted bedtime stories. A better understanding of our Ancestors afterlife beliefs comes from Teutonic and Celtic sources in continental Europe. These beliefs are all over the map, but contain elements of reincarnation, the Halls of various Gods and Goddesses and feasting with their ancestors in mountains.

[@razzle2112]

I pronounce it like Vol hall uh

[@Rocklvr76]

Jackson...i remember from my readings and study of mythology and culture Hel was for natural deaths and like another level for the really bad stuff like oath breakers and the truly evil. As for women warriors don't know nor care if in any ancient texts, but I believe the women warriors BECOME valkyries (and why it seems women warriors don't go to Valhalla (they have their own hall I guess)

[@Velsbasketcase]

Is Hell any different than being alive on Earth? Hell was no change.

[@ericph9]

Didn't the Soviet Union honor women who died in childbirth in a very similar manner to fallen soldiers?

[@Floral_Green]

Taxtro I think you missed their point there, my guy

[@cranklabexplosion-labcentr8245]

So like I have to join the armed forces if I want this afterlife?

[@Scales7593]

If we keep the light in our heart, our memory of will, and always look forward, Valhalla will guide us through the journey to our own.

[@-breakofdawn-]

I love how the sky in your beautiful corner of the world still looks normal in your videos - blue with puffy clouds, the way untouched nature looks, not full of unnatural stripes on a daily basis. It’s like a peaceful vacation for the eyes and soul. Thank you also for the interesting topic in this video, it’s fascinating to learn about the researched historical facts and compare them to what is conveyed to us in fiction.

[@kimfleury]

Stripes?