Who Makes The Best Switcher?

[@VertexEffectsInc]

Episode 4: Who Makes The Best Switcher? Welcome to the Chairmen of the Boards Podcast! The ultimate pedalboard podcast with the foremost rig builders in the world: Grant Klassen (Goodwood Audio), Brian Omilion (Omilion Audio), and Mason Marangella (Vertex Effects/The Rig Doctor). We've teamed up to democratize great tone and provide you with our best tricks, tips, resources and hacks so you can build the pedalboard of your dreams! //HOSTS// Grant Klassen (Goodwood Audio) YT - @Goodwood Audio IG - instagram.com/goodwoodaudio Brian Omilion (Omilion Audio) YT - @Omilion Audio IG - instagram.com/omilionaudio Mason "The Rig Doctor" Marangella (Vertex Effects) YT - @Vertex Effects IG - instagram.com/vertexeffects //WATCH// Watch all "Chairmen of the Boards" episodes: KZbin: bit.ly/3rBohAd //LISTEN// Listen to all "Chairmen of the Boards" episodes on your favorite Podcast App: APPLE: apple.co/3En6baj SPOTIFY: spoti.fi/3jS1kEB

[@jimi272]

I think, it matters where on the planet you are... if i were in the use, i'd use a mastermind. I live in europe currently so it makes more sense to have gigrig that has europe covered for support well.... Also, on the gigrig g3, with the bluetooth app you can easily update your Unit, Change setlist orders and load or backup your Unit. so actually its easier than with the boss where you always had to connect via midi ect...

[@VertexEffectsInc]

@@jimi272 I think there a lot of good choices, however no software can compete with RJM, Gigrig or otherwise. The fact that it can be shared P2P is also a huge benefit so someone can alter my programming and I can upload changes without ever needing my rig to leave the pedalboard. Equally, I can make changes to the programming without the unit being plugged into the computer and then upload the new programming via USB stick or the next time I'm in front of my computer. This also goes for trouble shooting and changes as you can export your current software backend to RJM to diagnose or makes changes for you to re-upload to your PBC. No other switcher has this and this is why RJM is the pro standard for studio and stage used by all the major rig builders independently of any of us.

[@jimi272]

@@VertexEffectsInc yess that is true of course!

[@marcuslewitzki4610]

How about the Morningstar? They seem to be coming fast and hard in this business. The ML10X seem like the next big thing in the Switcher world.

[@jimtaig2507]

So we are binary against re-orderable loops? Let’s be inclusive & have loop order Included! Fixed pedal order? How narrow minded!

[@javiermp81]

I was about to buy a G3 Atom and didn’t understand why Mason hates so much on the GigRig stuff… so I did a detailed comparison of the G3 Atom and the RJM PBC/6X just to make sure. I now have my eyes on the PBC/6X 😅. But, what I found is very interesting: The G3 Atom does have some advantages over the PBC/6X that may be very important for some users: - 8 foot switches vs. 6(7) - two outputs, one isolated and phase reversible (no need for an interfacer 😉) - two expression pedal ins - two TRS (so double) function/control out - true stereo trails / spillover - true stereo parallel paths and /or wet/dry - super easy and visual loop assignment to presets On the other hand, the PBC/6X also has some serious advantages over the G3 Atom: - smaller footprint - much lighter (40%) !!! - much lower power consumption (220 mA vs 650 mA) !!! - the 4 stereo loops can be split to dual mono, effectively providing up to 11 mono loops - superior MIDI implementation - programmability and function customization - the editor software is genius - set list and song management The price difference depends heavily on your location. In the US, it’s a no brainer in favor of RJM. In Europe, both cost about € 1100, so it comes down to preference and on what features you need. I think GigRig approach the pedalboard from the perspective of a true bypass switcher with added MIDI functionality and go to extremes to keep it simple. Whereas RJM approach it from the perspective of an ultra powerful MIDI control center, but with loops integrated instead of having a rack unit to control. For my current application, the advantages from the PBC/6X offer much more value. But I do understand how the feature set in the G3 Atom is awesome for some players and how they’ve earned their place at the table.

[@michaeltuyp9287]

I just invested in a new Vertex pedal board and RJM PBC10 to upgrade my board. It’s been a long haul in getting my soldering chops up to snuff but I’m super excited to jump into this new world of switchers. I am a pro guitar player and have always used elaborate series boards with buffers - and this new frontier is going to be great. I love all 3 chairman’s and their advice has really helped me a lot. Thanks you guys for some great content. I couldn’t have done this without you.

[@chiefbucknell]

Endless gratitude for you all sharing this amazingly useful (and in short supply) expertise and info-with illustrations, no less!

[@GoodwoodAudio]

You can thank Brian for those! ha.

[@VertexEffectsInc]

Awe...thanks for watching!

[@omilionaudio]

Thanks for watching!!

[@danielblair5133]

Regarding the customer service discussion, I have an ES-8 that worked great until signal stopped moving through all of the loops, tuner out, etc. It will talk to the computer, send midi, but no signal at all. Took it to a Boss repair place where they replaced the mainboard. Same issue still happened. I was told that the ES-8 is, "...not really serviceable beyond that..." and am now left with an expensive brick that is just outside the warranty. Based on your description of RJM's customer service, I'm switching to them, even though I really like the ES-8. It is so true that customer service doesn't matter until you need it.

[@sky-magnet]

The atom has movable loops, setlists and a tuner. They also have backups that you keep on your phone. I had an old G2 that was given to me and one of the switches was acting funky...gigrig replaced it no question asked. Idk. I've been using them for years and they have been great.

[@smokestackstudiosgem]

Great show guys, I went from a boss ES8 to an OG Gigrig Pro14 because I’m done with gigging. Just studio work and I don’t need virtual pedal placement. It is still very versatile and fast switching with the easiest programming of all switchers. I love it and it works for my situation.👊🏼🎸

[@VertexEffectsInc]

Cool!

[@smokestackstudiosgem]

@@VertexEffectsInc thanks man, you’ve enlightened me to the nuances of switcher technology over the years and I Thankyou for that. I do love the variable buffer knob on the pro14… it runs my passive Bigfoot Engineering Octopussy Oct up pedal perfectly.👊🏼🎸

[@denniscoverband4369]

Great episode. I loved Grants’ advice about thinking if you even need a switcher. I just went to a MIDI set up on a couple of boards and had to think long and hard if I could qualify it. Like you guys I believe that a lot of guitarists get confused and really don’t need a full blown MIDI switcher.

[@VertexEffectsInc]

Very true!

[@billsstudio2528]

Morningstar MC6Pro with ML10X is my current fave. Have owned Voodoo, RJM, Boss E5 and E8, many more... Will try out the Morningstar gear this time around. Their flexibility and killer MIDI pedals are crazy good. The G3S looks great however. Stereo on EVERY loop. Not TRS, but seperate inputs! More costly. Current want list for current pedalboard build with Morningstar gear as control/switchers: 1. keep stereo config from guitar to amps with ability to loop in stereo. 2. go from auto switching i.e. one button does everything, to stomp at will, all manual. 3. have the board small enough to put on a table top and hand tweak, loop/tweak pedals. 4. reorder loops (not super important, but important to be flexible) 5. take advantage of direct implementation of midi switching, making it quicker for looping/getting to memorized presets, etc. Not just a live performance thing. Actually a well layed out switcher/midi and pedals can make a more enjoyable practice session. The GS3 is the quickest way IMO, and probably the way to obtain most prestine tones. Plus Dan is a cool dude and would probably provide great support. Morningstar route is least coslty: 349.00 MC6Pro and 400.00 for ML10x. However, that is for 5 stereo loops/10 mono. G3S has 6 stereo loops or 12 mono. G3S is about 1900.00 US dollars. Better for me, to start out slow with just MIDI switcher, then get the ML10x loop switcher, then add one more switcher later if needed. Laslty, you mentioned Morningstar Midi switchers are like a regular switcher without buttons. I disagree. The MC6Pro has a superior display and their programming blows away most switchers. Also, if you mount the ML10x under the pedalboard, much of the cabling is out of the way and you have a smaller footprint for switching.

[@ChrisM541]

Totally true, a switcher is not for everyone. It is, however, a massively invaluable tool for anyone who has problems with multiple foot pedal presses when gigging. Going from the infamous tap dance and almost inevitable on-stage trip :) to one button, one sound is a revelation. I played in a covers/function/wedding band for many years and it was an eye-opener when I moved to a Mesa Triaxis, 2:90 and TC G-Force setup (all paid for from the gig money). Three units in a small rack and a Roland FC-200 footswitch made my life so much easier and, just as crucially, gave me so many more sound options, even within each song. Later on I purchased an RJM RG-16 for my Fuchs TDS combo, and with 8 pedal loops and 8 amp function switches the RG-16 covered me well with the 4-cable method and full amp function switching. It's a shame RJM doesn't make the RG-16, or updated equivalent anymore. Today, the GigRig G3, for example, looks stunning in what it does (though pricey).

[@floridaman7079]

From my experience in getting my es5 repaired (dropped a two notes captor on the screen) Roland (Sydney) repair team got back to me pretty quickly and the guys was so lovely to deal with and he said if he's still around in a few years and it fails he'll repair it again just for parts cost

[@VertexEffectsInc]

Nice!

[@ericwarrington6650]

For me this was the best chair episode yet! I've been considering it just to clean up the flow etc but I absolutely do not need one...down the road if I'm gigging that's a different story.. just another cool gadget to make me feel more in control...I'm usually playing around with pedals and experimenting w tone ..I don't need a loop and different tones on lockdown at the ready..lol.yet..thanks for doing this guys!🤘🤪🎸🎶❤️

[@VertexEffectsInc]

Glad you enjoyed it!

[@ericwarrington6650]

@@VertexEffectsInc ✌️❤️

[@Adventuresingearland]

GREAT discussion, gents - thanks for sharing some high level industry chat with the rest of us who aren't in the trenches. Learned a lot and looking forward to the next one.

[@VertexEffectsInc]

Glad you enjoyed it!

[@timwendel06]

Fellas, Excellent discourse, as always. I had some thoughts to add, and my apologies for the lengthy comment. For context, I'm a gigging musician, most often playing creative improvised music in which instantaneous access to effects that I'm hearing in the moment is highly desired, so I need flexibility in my rig programming and accessibility as opposed to something like song/setlist. I opted for a switcher so that I could make full use of my midi effects, limit tap-dancing and foot-reaching, create presets where multiple effects turn on and off via one press, and for the best tone possible. A customer who is using MIDI pedals like the strymon timeline/big sky, etc. would be very well served by upgrading to a midi switcher. Those devices are so clunky to use manually with your foot, having to push down two buttons to go up and down to access more banks and presets. It's a creative hindrance to access the advanced settings of these types of pedals in the moment. Plus, they take up so much real estate that problems occur whether you put from on the front or back of your board regarding activating presets on them or on pedals that surround them on the surface. The ability to program an easily accessible button page to access exponentially more presets, or have presets change on these pedals as you change presets on your switcher, is a total game changer in my world. I didn't hear this appropriately addressed in the section about who should look for a switcher. I bought a Musicomlab MKVI based on price, buffer specs, and reordable loops. It fit the amount of pedals I wanted to use, and I wanted to have an advanced editor with total customizability. It's an awesome unit that does most everything I want. However, I'm going to switch to a PBC-10 as soon as possible and here's why: - The RJM has the ability to have an external dual-switch Ctl button AND an expression input. My board is huge because of its width. I have wah, volume, and two expressions that all need to be in the front row. I need two expressions because I wire them directly to the pedals, because I use an external dual-switch so that I can have two extra buttons for extra functionality with the switcher. With the RJM, I could use an expression/volume pedal and cut the width of my board by two expression pedals. Plus, you can select what pedal parameter is being "expressed" on the RJM switcher and that selection is visibly represented with an LED. - The RJM will give me a visual representation of the particular patch that's active on my midi pedals like the strymon timeline or hologram microcosm on their dedicated button pages. This means that an LED on the switcher which patch is active on the dedicated midi pedal. The MKVI does not do this. I've emailed the company about this, and they've ignored me twice. - 16 button pages vs. 8 pages. 8 pages is totally great, but I want so much more programming. For example, I have three potential loopers on my board and I want a button page dedicated to each looper. I was shocked at how quickly I maxed out my button pages on the MKVI. - The MKVI has limited hold functions. The RJM will do anything via hold functions that it does via regular switching. The MKVI is limited in what it can do via hold functions, particularly with midi. - At 1:04:00, Mason mentions how unnecessary loop ordering is. I initially thought this would be important for me, but after buying a switcher and building a rig, I completely agree that it doesn't really matter. First of all, if you want to reorder your stereo effects on the MKVI, the pedal designated to loop 12 always has to be first, annoyingly. I wanted to use it with my main wet effects (timeline, big sky, microcosm) so that those pedals could feed each other in different ways to create variable effects. This "flexibility" is kind of rigid in that you have to program it per preset and it doesn't really fit with my vision of a flexible intuitive board that can be changed in the moment of playing. - You can program the RJM to have 4 functions via a switch! - The RJM PBC 10 allows for stereo loops in 7-10 whereas you have to combine mono loops with MKVI, thereby limiting the amount of pedals you can use if you utilize stereo effects - The RJM is expandable via the Gizmo - The RJM has insert points - RJM has an incredible amount of online resources for learning their software and hardware There's more but I forget them all. Thanks guys!

[@VertexEffectsInc]

Thanks for watching and sharing!

[@vfilardo]

Guys -- The Musicom Lab EFX is now Mk-VI. 12 loops, 4 function switches, MIDI (of course) and PC based editor. Takes it to the next level.

[@VertexEffectsInc]

Yes! Great unit!

[@Cadet44642]

I’m glad that he dropped in Morningstarfx into the conversation. I couldn’t imagine my board with out my MC6. I have an only digital board. The order is LA Lady, Polytune, Dunlop mini, HX STOMP, Source Audio Nemesis, RV-500 and RC-5. I have considered adding in an ML5 to and in some analog drive sounds. But, after having 8 pedals on my board and tap dancing every Sunday I decided to go all digital with a MC6 I guess you can call it a hybrid approach. But, I’m controlling Ableton, and my board switching between lead and rhythm guitar. I am also the MD every week. After doing that for the past 3 years every week even during Covid a loop switcher or high quality midi controller is a must. My next goal is to program Ableton to trigger my board changes and I could just play guitar. But, I’m just a music nerd when it comes to this stuff. I have been loving these discussions. Great job fellas. I would love a show strictly on midi controllers. Please and thank you.

[@VertexEffectsInc]

Thanks for watching and the comment!

[@FakeGlasses]

I have been blown away by the PBC 6x and editor. The only nit is it’s stereo loops 4-6 require Y cables in/out, but the editor and quality is amazing

[@VertexEffectsInc]

Indeed!

[@dv318]

I use 4 effect gizmos - 100% agree on the RJM buffer, I always bypass the internal buffer & use an empress out front.

[@VertexEffectsInc]

❤️❤️❤️

[@krullo75]

Felt I had to step in….. I have a G3 Atom and I’m very happy with it. Ok, it would be more convenient if there was an editor instead of the app. But, if the G3 goes down I just run a backup and everything’s in place again. Another thing is that the customer service of the Gigrig is very quick and helpfull. Could be a difference between the USA and Europe, but I disagree on the availability and the assumption that customer service isn’t as good as RJM.

[@VertexEffectsInc]

Glad you dig it!

[@dcafarelli]

I've setup a board for my friend using TheGigRig G2. I don't like the fact that there is no real editor, but then again, you may not need one for most of the basic things that need to be done. The foot switches are all optical and they are really well designed. So they will last forever and unless there is sufficient dust to impact the IR LEDs and IR Sensors internally, they should last forever. I like that the Output B can allow for phase configuration per preset in the event that you need to switch the phase when sending to two amplifiers. I also have a G3 ATOM still in a box being ready to be prepared for another friend and will give some updates on that. The point about availability of TheGIgRig products is accurate. Prior to the pandemic, all the products were pretty easy to get as I use their pedal power adapters, distributors and isolators pretty frequently. But since the pandemic, availability of certain products is less. Understandable but by now it should be less of a problem. But in all the boards that I have built for friends, TheGigRig product quality is great. Never had any issues.

[@SweetcornTA]

In regards to reordering loops, I didn’t think I’d use it that much but this has turned out to be quite useful. One example I have my delay in the loop most times, but for any U2 type presets I put delay before the amp input so it drives a bit more. Same for rockabilly sounds with the delay in front.

[@VertexEffectsInc]

I think anyone can find a reason for it if it's there, but organically it's generally unused in the majority of rigs it's featured in.

[@ttop23]

ES-8 user here. Very intrigued to hear about the new Boss switcher in the pipeline.

[@VertexEffectsInc]

It's gonna compete more directly with the PBC6x in terms of stereo loops, isolation, software, etc. I think it's a 50th Anniversary Product, so probably winter NAMM 2023?

[@billytremoloband7456]

@@VertexEffectsInc yea new boss switcher to add to my broken es8 and es5 ….!

[@VertexEffectsInc]

@@billytremoloband7456 Oh no!

[@billytremoloband7456]

@@VertexEffectsInc Es5 is still working..! It was just the 8 that shit the bed…! As they do more to often…..! It needs a main board replaced which is 70% price of a new es8 🤦‍♂️ hence going down to an es5 as it was cheaper than new replacement parts ….! I’ve since added a voodoo hex and isolator for the second output so now the es5 can control 2 over drives (nova drive/archer) , ce2w orange 90, eleclady , dc2w, collider and a syncopy (analog/midi delay). There is still a spare loop in the es5 and the collider is doing the stereo split so the dc2w can run full stereo! Mind you the pbc6 could probably do all this without taking up half the space 🤦‍♂️🤦‍♂️🤦‍♂️🤦‍♂️🤦‍♂️

[@cjsfriend2]

I do love my Morningstar MC6 mk2 midi controller (used with the ML5 midi controllable loop switcher placed under the pedalboard) to make a modular loop switcher

[@VertexEffectsInc]

Nice!!!

[@sandyturner1911]

I wish I had seen this sooner. I have a EHX Super Switcher. I picked this one because I have a lot of pedals, and it seems like it's less complicated, as far as programming. I didn't want to have something I had to program. I haven't hooked it up yet. And, yes, it's a lot intimidating. I have a small One Control Xenagama, too. It is very handy.

[@VertexEffectsInc]

Luckily that's an easier one to work with.

[@frenchfry1342]

Utilizing re-selectable loop is great. Biggest use is my H9 Mod FX before and after delay/verb Then for some of the pitch FX, I still it even before the Drive Small camp of the G3 user. It is a great extension of a regular board, you can change so much on the fly and there are only a few menus for midi/copy and past function.

[@VertexEffectsInc]

You could also set up the H9 pre-post even if you didn't have a re-orderable loop board.

[@tonyadams6985]

Gigrig G3 is useful in having Reorderable loops For packing your pedals very tightly to get onto the smallest space and keeping cables on shorter runs. Eg: run any pedal to nearest loop. It also has an inbuilt tuner, so now allows auxiliary to be a 13th loop, plus extra space on your board, (where tuner once occupied). Being able to configure in any combination of loops allows some pedals to run parallel, whilst leaving others G3 can also power the rest of your paddleboard. True stereo trails on any preset.Has a pre-gain boost, Plus there’s a voltage control amplifier on the output of which you can use to boost any of your pedals as well.

[@VertexEffectsInc]

Almost all of these we mentioned have this same feature of the re-orderable loops, built in tuner, and can reassign the volume loops or inserts as an additional loop, they also have parallel/series switching per loop and preset as well. You can't exactly wire to the nearest loop if you have stereo pedals as I don't think every send/return is stereo, maybe only have of them (6 or so) so you could just put your stereo delay in any old loop - it'd have to be in a corresponding stereo loop. Also the cable distances on a pedalboard with a switcher are negligible since it's already low impedance at that point so 50-100pF of capacitance for an extra few feet of cable is not going to influence the overall sound presuming your have your buffers in order. Most people that I've found evangelize this switcher haven't actually tried any of the other switchers mentioned here, or the nearest competition in the RJM or Musicom Labs or actually don't really know how to evaluate the efficacy of these switchers outside of how they're being presented to them at face value.

[@stuartangel8212]

Mason always hates on gigrig for some reason.

[@FakeGlasses]

@@VertexEffectsInc The PBC6X doesn't have parallel loops. It requires a separate line mixer. I asked RJM if there was a way around this and they said no. What sort of parallel do you think is possible on the PBC6X? Because if it had parallel loops I think it'd be perfect (for me) given the editor and support.

[@tompoynton]

@@stuartangel8212 it’s the soldered vs unsoldered thing lol

[@Gibfenez]

Can’t beat the G3. Total flexibility, incredibly well designed. Yes you pay for what you get. Your review does come off biased but respect everyone’s opinion.

[@VertexEffectsInc]

What qualifies you to speak on the efficacy of this switcher versus any other?

[@sacredxgeometry]

@@VertexEffectsInc you don't have to go to college to talk about guitar pedals. LOL.

[@LegatoTactics]

@@VertexEffectsInc What is the qualification? Do you need to be an engineer? Are you an engineer?

[@MikeHenrick1]

Personally human nature will inevitably mean everyone is biased, I’m not qualified as such but I know for a fact that a lot of the specs are pretty much the same, so I’d go for what’s readily available to you, that does what you need, to be fair they’re recommending a board they are familiar with that’s fine but it’s probably no better or worse than a g3s it’s like saying what’s the best guitar, or steak. 🥩. Personally all these videos I watch for information and other people’s perspectives, great source for information. It’s all just entertainment. Some better than others. I do actually find “The rig doctors” video on cabling etc really useful. As an individual you do come across slightly condescending imo but then who am I. Not qualified. Here just to learn.

[@trebleboost7]

I Love my ES-8 and it has been rock solid for loops and MIDI and love the order switching and routing options.

[@VertexEffectsInc]

Very nice!

[@andreweasombentley4703]

I think some important context to remember is that pricing, availability, number of users and what you can expect from a point of view of after sales support is also highly dependent on what part of the world you happen to live in and this changes the picture somewhat

[@VertexEffectsInc]

All the more reason to go RJM :)

[@FakeGlasses]

The biggest reason I'm looking at going from the PBC6X to the G3 Atom is because of parallel loops. The PBC6x does not have a line mixer/parallel routing options to my knowledge plus pre/post gain control and my understanding is that midi on the G3 Atom is now improved. I am not a touring musician, I gig once a month at most, so the fear of replacement is less. The biggest con is the loss of the RJM software and responsiveness, which is truly exceptional. I really wish they wouldn't have skipped out on parallel loops for the PBC6x (I know he did it to reduce price point, but I'd pay for a PBC6X with the parallel routing and pre/post gain stuff the G3/Atom have).

[@joejohnson8966]

Same reason why I prefer G3

[@nicholassheppard6171]

I use a DPC Micro in loop 1 of an ES-5 with one side of a source audio EQ2, a compressor and a synth pedal in the loops of the DPC. With the parallel routing in the ES-5 I can do compressed lows and dirt highs tones with a live bass rig. I like to run parallel synth and fuzz sounds too. It’s awesome. I’d say parallel routing options are a must for any switcher bass pedalboard.

[@VertexEffectsInc]

Thanks for sharing!

[@calebandrew9705]

Obviously this is just my opinion but the Gigrig interface seems a lot simpler to use and that’s why I’m going with the G3 Atom over RJM PBC 6x. Plus you can add extra loops to it with the remote loopy 2. There are also many other Gigrig products that work well with the switcher. Sort of like Apple products with their ecosystem. Also I think the big part of it with the Gigrig G3, is honestly the looks. It’s why people may choose to buy the iPhone over Android or Mac over Windows (unless you’re a gamer). The iPhone certainly doesn’t have all the capabilities of many Android phones (same with Mac compared to Windows PCs) but does it pretty much do everything you need? yes. Is the interface easy to use? Yes. Does it look better.. YES!! Same applies to the G3.

[@VertexEffectsInc]

The RJM makes up a significant part of the pro market as it comes to switcher and is the industry standard. The three of us having experience with all the switchers out there are giving you our best opinions based on what we know to be true. You can, of course, refute that, however the main uses of the G3 are the makers of it, not pro rig builders. They, of course, have a large platform to evangelize this product, but it's absent from most other professionals in the field, and especially outside of Europe. There is a reason for that beyond the programming and UX of the RJM being streamlined for live performances beyond any switcher out there.

[@calebandrew9705]

@@VertexEffectsInc Thanks for the reply 👍🏼. This is the second time I’m writing this as I stupidly tried to play another video while typing this on my phone and of course it deleted it all… Anyway in summary I was only saying why I personally like the G3 Atom over the PBC 6x. I wasn’t trying to go against or dismiss your view. Hopefully that comes across differently when rereading it now. I agree with what you were saying that the RJM switchers are the best option for pros in the sense that it is readily available. I would like to see the Gigrig improve in this area but then again there are a lot of companies struggling to stock stores especially in this post covid era (Chase Bliss Audio for example). I’m from Australia so a lot of the time we often don’t have stock for a lot of things, including the RJM switchers. So in thinking about it a bit more. I probably would say that North American professional musicians rather than professional musicians as a whole is probably more appropriate when talking about RJM switchers being readily available, as the world is a big place and as you said about Europe RJM is not always readily available. For me personally in a worst case scenario, if something in the G3 needed fixing down the track it is not an issue because I have a second small board with no switcher that can do most things for a set list. Also I tend to use certain pedals for multiple things, clean boost/light overdrive/always on pedal, so having the ability to reorder the loops is a big plus for the G3. I have 3 pedals that require midi for presets. I only use four main sounds for my wet effects and every now and then I might need a random sound off my Mobius. The delay and reverb is usually in stereo and midi clock can either be controlled by the G3 or the Quartz through the G3. Side note: I have the UA Ruby in stereo (waiting on stock for the dream 65). I would run my overdrive pedals in parallel and then split the wet effects to the UA Dream. If the RJM PBC 6x is better for this application please let me know. At the end of the day they’re both great units. Buying either one would make most people happy. It is a good time for guitarists with all the options we have. Cheers again 👍🏼

[@DeathMetalGuitar]

Dr Marangella i am STOKED about your CotB podcast/YT shows! Hearing Grant and Brian's thoughts are super informative esp given their locations in the US, their customers/ music genres. Sobering dialog over whether you really need vs just wanting a switcher (learning curves vs YT influenced)👏👏🤓🤓

[@VertexEffectsInc]

Glad you enjoy it!

[@joehart7573]

I've never owned a switcher. I just received the Gigrig 3 Atom a few weeks ago. I was set up and running within a few days. Only took that long because I had to rewire everything. I had been using a Highwire buffer on the advice from Mason and it was invaluable to me. Made a huge difference. I have checked to see the difference after I wired everything up to my Gigrig and I don't hear one. I don't have anything to compare to but the ease of startup was, for me, what I needed. I need to spend time playing guitar and not learning a new way to program. I use the four cable method with a TC Electronics noise gate in the loop as well as in front and it works great. Also, I live in Canada and I orderred it one day and received it in about a week. My two cents for Gigrig! lol

[@VertexEffectsInc]

Thanks for watching and for sharing!

[@justinkarbel7914]

Very cool. I have to disagree about the reorderable loops. I have used this feature countless times to change the position of my modulation effect. For instance putting a flanger ahead of gain sounds drastically different from having it after the gain. Also, boost into distortion vs boost after distortion is again very different. I think this feature is invaluable.

[@VertexEffectsInc]

In most cases you could do this on many MIDI controlled Mod pedals with their built in pre-post function.

[@Dr.Jekyll]

Attention everyone in the world (and out of this world): if you think you need something, and don’t know why you need it, you don’t need it. You’re welcome. Now you can ignore trends and enjoy life 😊

[@srwaite7]

Good stuff, gents! I use an EHX switcher for my ambient pedal board primarily because it is quiet. Some of the switches on the pedals are noisy when clicking on and off. The noise is a nuisance when doing ambient music.

[@VertexEffectsInc]

Some of the better switchers have tech to eliminate that noise.

[@FlankinspanK]

been using multiple effects before amp input in just a 4 loop Voodoo Labs pedal switcher and it fits my needs well. Simplifies switching during a song but I have many options before the song starts. Loop 1 pitch shifting, loop 2 dirt pedals, loop 3 modulation, loop 4 is currently unused but can split signal to 2 amps. My effects loop chain also has a 4 loop switcher that has 2 delays and a reverb and solo boost/eq. Overall I have many options but its very simple and easy enough to use on the fly.

[@jamesirelan1988]

Not a challenge, but an explanation of why I started with a G2 and now have a G3: simple ignorance of other options. My first switcher was a Crocodile. I read, at the time (a number of years ago, now) that Gigrig was the nuts. I too bought the pitch that re-oderable loops was important and desirable. It sounded plausible. So, I got a G2. I had never heard of RJM at the time. If I had, things might have been different. When G3, with its improved MIDI capabilities came out, I went with that, maybe largely brand name loyalty. For my purposes, truth be told, even though I was a fulltime pro years ago and could have used the shit out of all this stuff back then, if it had existed, today virtually anything would work. Daisy chain would probably work. So, not lobbying for G3 over anything else, just explaining why I have it. If I had it to do over and had had more information at the time, I'd probably have an RJM. I still wouldn't have any gigs, but I'd have an RJM.

[@VertexEffectsInc]

Thanks for sharing and for watching!

[@itsanthonybest]

Thoughts on the Morningstar ML5 + the MC series controllers?

[@VertexEffectsInc]

They could be in there for smaller switchers for sure but are disaggregated so they don't really compare to the all-in-one options.

[@adamkrauss303]

Great episode guys which I am watching for the first time. Indeed, as I am in the process of recovering from recent back surgery, I am looking forward to redoing my pedalboard as one of the less strenuous activities that I can transition into, while my band remains in a holding pattern. On that note, neither myself nor any of my other six band members are full-time professional musicians. Accordingly we all have day jobs and play in a cover band that does soul, blues, rock, R&B and a little funk. I am the sole guitarist. We do play out live intermittently, and are looking to increase those occasions as soon as possible. That being said, regarding the discussion as to movable loops. I think the extreme usefulness is in the trial and error phase before settling on a live pedal arrangement. And with large pedalboards, having the ability to tinker at that stage without plugging and unplugging patch cables is an extreme benefit in my opinion. Especially, as people, like myself more and more look to have multiple gain stages and boosts and determine the order of preference between those pedals. On a separate note, I don’t know if this has been featured by you guys before or Mason, on one of your many useful videos, but it would be nice to see a video discussing the integration of a multi effects unit within a traditional peadalboard, since that is certainly a trend that I am seeing more and more and would consider utilizing. Thanks again for all the useful information.

[@VertexEffectsInc]

Adam, certainly you should explore whatever options you think are the best fit. My experience has told me that the re-ordering aspect is lost of most users overtime and once you decide your preferred order, this seldom changes in a way that requires re-ordering. Sharing this is only to save you time, not to discourage you. Between the three of us, we've seen thousands of rigs and are sharing our best cautionary tales. Most of our pedalboard rig build videos cover things like multieffects used with pedals because the boards have that on them as part of the build. We have a playlist dedicated to that on our channel if you want to check it out.

[@jwr7777]

No love for Morningstar? Or Pirate Midi? Do you guys mostly focus on all-in-one switcher/loopers?

[@VertexEffectsInc]

They're not really an integrated system.

[@omilionaudio]

Pirate midi is also VERY new and doesn’t have the same editor programming options as theses

[@ZRJZZZZZ]

What I found most educational is that these devices are very complicated and justifiably so, but are not necessary unless you are playing with a set list or in a situation where you have to make multiple, simultaneous signal changes. You all did a public service.

[@VertexEffectsInc]

Thanks for watching!

[@JohnFraserFindlay]

Dudes awesome! I had a Rocktron switcher/looper in the 90s! Never used it!! Times have changed!

[@VertexEffectsInc]

Yes they have!

[@notzech]

Mason calling That Pedal Show “Pervasive” is the best description I’v ever heard of anything hahaha

[@VertexEffectsInc]

Yes...for our category of the industry, it's widespread for sure!

[@joshbimthedoctor]

Which is the easiest looper to set up parallel effects. Probably the g3? Only the last 4 can be parallel in the RJM so that's out. The idea of sending drive 1 into amp 1 and drive 2 into amp 2 if very appealing. The hardest thing of my life is getting the drives to sound best going into both amps.

[@VertexEffectsInc]

RJM, I think the last 4 are in stereo, but I think they can be paralleled in any position so long as they stay in mono. On the PBC6X I think any loop can be paralleled stereo or mono.

[@joshbimthedoctor]

@@VertexEffectsInc you said the RJM doesn't have the 1 Meg input anymore right? Is it hard to DIY?

[@wahwahwells]

To give another perspective on the 500k input impedance buffer, it should be taken into account that many overdrive pedals have an input impedance of around 470-510k, so they tend to provide more load than the typical 1meg amp input. Having a 1meg input buffer can make these overdrives sound glassy and harsh, whereas something around the 500k ohm mark will slightly roll off the higher frequencies feeding into the overdrive, giving them a much sweeter top end. Analogman uses the same trick on his input buffers. Personally, I've taken the approach of having a custom made variable input Z buffer, so it can be dialled in anywhere from 50k to 1meg, depending on the signal chain. If I'm recording straight through to the amp via the pedal board or something generally clean I'll switch it to 1 meg, but if I'm running into a pedal like a Timmy, I'll load it to match the Timmy's 400k input impedance.

[@VertexEffectsInc]

1M is the standard because that's the loading of your guitar into 99% of amps (with few exceptions). If you want your pickups to react as though they're plugged into your amp, and the sound of your guitar plugged into your amp (even when running through a series of pedals) 1M is going to be the most representative. However, if you want a sound different from what your guitar and amp produce alone (tone-wise), then by all means, load or unload your pickups however you want by using a lower input impedance or higher one. For me, the standard for buffering on a pedalboard (my baseline) is getting as close to how the guitar and amp behave with a 10ft. cable between them. Using a Timmy or TS9 as a proof for needing a lower input impedance doesn't hold water. Firstly, with the Timmy, it would be rare that it would be the first pedal in your chain, so unless this pedal was first and always on, the benefits of a 400K input impedance is not realized in the context of a pedalboard system as the signal is already low impedance by the time it reaches the Timmy, and the Timmy's input impedance isn't loading the pickups at that point. Secondly, it's true bypass, so it's not doing any loading until the Timmy is turned "on". If it's first in your chain, you'd have to leave it always on to have any impact (tone-wise) of the 400K input impedance. As to the TS-9 (and I'm using this as the exemplar even though you didn't name it specifically, but named Analogman, who uses this type of buffer as his retail buffer), it is buffered, so if you use it first, it will load the guitar down to 470K ohms with an output impedance of ~1K. However, most folks aren't using this pedal first (just like the Timmy), so again, even though it's buffered and not required to be always on like the Timmy - it still (in most cases) will already have the guitar loaded and converted to low impedance by the time it gets to the TS-9 in the signal path. Additionally, Analogman I suspect uses this buffer because (1) it's a super simple circuit, that's easy to make and (2) it's a super common buffer circuit similar to what you'd find in most Boss and Ibanez pedals through the 1990's (and even now). It's by no means a transparent or neutral buffer by a mile, and he's pretty much just repurposing a buffer out of a Tube Screamer and calling it a day. I don't think it's chosen for it's high headroom or amazing line driving capabilities. It's a very primitive buffer, sucks at driving capacitance and has a very distinctive color (other than neutral). Remember, for as great as Analogman is at building pedals, he's not a rig builder, he doesn't have to deal with integrating 20 or more effects in a system and making them work together impedance wise. I think the buffer he sells was something customers requested and was an easy way to repurpose the buffer found in a common circuit. If you compare this buffer driving a common 20 ft. cable versus something high quality like I mention in our videos, the TS-style buffer wont' even come close. It adds a lot of artifacts that aren't present with the guitar and amp alone. Characterizing 1M as sounding "harsh" is a total mischaracterization of how input impedance might impact the tone. There are literally countless other factors that would make a buffer sound harsh other than its input impedance. A Klon buffer is a 1M input impedance, I don't find it to be neutral, but I also don't find it to be "harsh" either. A Boss Tuner has a 1M input impedance, I also don't find it to be a neutral buffer, nor do I find it be "harsh". Those examples alone are enough to demonstrate that 1M isn't the X factor on how neutral a buffer might sound. The circuit design of the buffer, its voltage swing, headroom, its impedances, etc. are all factors the influence the sound. A buffer by design should have no sound of its own, it should be totally neutral. Matching the input impedance of the amp is paramount in re-creating the sound of the guitar and amp alone even when using dozens of pedals so the guitar is loaded properly. Beyond that, having a high quality buffer circuit it critical for driving the line with stability. The pedals you mentioned are not known for their buffers or their use in professional rig building applications. You can alter you input impedance however you want, but the input impedance isn't the source of harshness - it has more to do with the entire circuit and the buffer quality than the input Z spec.

[@wahwahwells]

@@VertexEffectsInc Reading Mike Piera's description of his buffer build on his website, I think it might be misleading to state that he's "pretty much just repurposing a buffer out of a Tube Screamer and calling it a day." Mike is known for having a great set of ears and a client list to match, so I would suspect that his choices as far as input impedance in his buffer are made in response to his client's wishes and his own experience. Same for the RJM guys, I can see exactly why they would have gone for a 500k input impedance on the buffers in their switchers. I think there would be plenty of us who have overdrive pedals at the front of our signal chains, some of whom have those pedals in 'always on' mode. I know that plenty of my professional guitar playing brethren have complained of buffers interfering with the sound of their drive pedals, and many have responded by placing buffers after their drives. I went through the same issues until I got one of Justin Butler's Thru-Tone modded EB VP Jr volume pedals, with its excellent sounding buffer with the adjustable input Z. I then got him to do a custom build for me to put that buffer in a stand alone pedal so I wasn't tied to the volume pedal in every iteration of my rig. Being able to dial through the input Z is a great opportunity to hear the difference first hand as to how the same buffer affects drives. I didn't say that the 1M buffer sounds harsh, I said that it can make the overdrives following it sound glassy and harsh. I would suspect that when pedal builders voice their overdrive pedals, they don't do so with a 1M buffer before them, but rather plugged straight into the pedal, with whatever input impedance they have selected for their circuit.

[@cheomoralesguitarist]

I use the ES8 and use the movable loop because of my M5 I mostly use it for modulation or the weird effects, but sometimes I use it as a second delay with different parameters

[@VertexEffectsInc]

Nice!

[@josephtardio1086]

Drinking game: Sip of beer every time Omilion says "like".

[@omilionaudio]

Like I’m down..

[@VertexEffectsInc]

@@omilionaudio switching to O'Douls

[@DanielBrophyMusic]

I haven't watched the whole video yet, but I intend to. Sorry if this is mentioned in here-- but would it make sense to put a wah in the first loop of a switcher? Would this positively/negatively impact your tone? I am convinced now that my wah (as necessary as it is) is hampering my signal path/tone.

[@VertexEffectsInc]

Yes, wah before switcher ideally. If the wah is true bypass there should be no issue.

[@Rainy78]

No Morningstar midi's here? MC8 is killer!

[@marcuslewitzki4610]

LOL, I was just going to ask why they don't bring up Morningstar. I don't have one myself since they have problems in their supply chain, but I sure want one a.s.a.p!

[@LarryGi]

I have MC8. Very cool, but it is not a loop switcher.

[@근ToThe본]

@@LarryGi ML5 OR ML10X WITH MC8... ITS SO MONSTER!!

[@kenmasters007]

You guys didn't listen to the end of the video where they talked about morning star

[@coolmixes]

Just watched your video guys. Been holding back on a looper switcher because I’m unsure as to what’s the best fit. I’ve set a a pedal board of all the singular pedals for loop recording at home and live looping with several different instruments and mics to play live. The Aeros having limited inputs to all in which I want to bring into it on the fly and what the outputs would be going to separately. I have a separate board for my guitar and instrument effects to bring into this as well as I’m using a XR18 for my main mixer. I was considering the possibility of some midi switching with the midi maestro into my XR 18 mixer but feel it’s going to be easier separately used for both the BB and Aeros. Controlling the overall mixer I though would be best however I’d also thought of an east switched for the singular PB and perhaps a simple switcher for my effects. Any thoughts to what might be a good solution for both live looping as well as home looping and home recording. Thank you

[@VertexEffectsInc]

The most popular ones seem to be the Boomerang, Boss RC, and the Ditto.

[@1973asdf]

really loved the podcast! i was wanting to hear about disaster area just to confirm if i would buy it. thanks a lot guys

[@jacobpittman1996]

Boss ES-5 and ES-8 can be connected to PC or Mac with a $15 MIDI to USB cable.

[@VertexEffectsInc]

Yes, they can...editor software however leaves something to be desired.

[@jacobpittman1996]

Yeah, it’s set up like a control panel with menus and training wheels. I need to check out some of the walk thru videos on the RJM editor to see the difference. ES-8’s limit of 2 stereo loops kind of bums me out. Even though it does spill over, limited pre/post loop volume adjustment, series/parallel options, I feel like a lot of these details are lost for me ‘cause I just want one more stereo loop, man! It’s too late I am invested!

[@ryanwhite5482]

Recently I am growing tired of several things about my disaster area switcher even though it was a fairly recent addition to the board. When you reviewed my rig in that video I had only just added the switcher. Problem is that no other switcher (RJM would be my preference) would fit on my board. As it is the disaster area hangs 5mm over the front edge of the board.

[@VertexEffectsInc]

Could be time for a new pedalboard?

[@ryanwhite5482]

@@VertexEffectsInc sigh. I've been avoiding that because of all the initial time investment in changing it. My rig has evolved on that Trailer Trash board for 11 years! It would be nice to fit it into a smaller rolling pelican case

[@jimtaig2507]

Re ordering loops is Essential as essential as is phase reversal on every loop & the outputs!

[@FuzzFace]

Does the Atom have phase switching on every stereo loop?

[@laurentperez5229]

Re ordering loops is nice but need a matrix mapping and it has a tonal effect on your sound.

[@DaveBloomDrumsOnline]

I love the DPC.micro. I have it on my small board with my MorningStar MC6 Pro so I can run MIDI with my three analog pedals on the board. The RJM 6X is on my big board (Brian gave me some great info while at the shop and I went in that direction). Great gear.

[@scottpeters4401]

I am still using my old Rocktron Patchmate from the 90’s..The one designed by Bob Bradshaw…8 stereo loops….I should probably upgrade,and have been eyeing the GigRig G3 Atom…but then on the other hand,..if it ain’t broke……

[@VertexEffectsInc]

Nice! If you're considering changing I'd go RJM or Musicomlab.

[@nicksburson1]

Most of the time I have my main overdrive first. When I turn my octave fuzz on I move my overdrive second. I know I could put my fuzz in the first loop but I just like the idea of my own drive being in the first loop.

[@VertexEffectsInc]

If it's impedance sensitive you're definitely not getting the most of out it.

[@nicksburson1]

@@VertexEffectsInc how so ? I was taking about reordering loops, and how when I use fuzz patches I move it to first in my loops but when I’m not using fuzz it’s in the third loop because I like having my drives first. I have my buffers off, so how is reordering my loops different to having it in the first loop all the time?

[@personalfreedom2700]

Awesome show! I have the Musicomlab parralelizer.. but this episode made me wonder which switcher is best for wet/dry/wet using 3 amps…with a couple stereo loops for the wet effects in parallel… ?

[@VertexEffectsInc]

I would use your Parallelizer and augment with a switcher for in front of your dry amp.

[@STRATMAN1969]

GREAT episode been waiting for this .Something that peeked my curiosity from the over drive comment is how much noise if any is generated by having all your pedals essentially on all the time .I have never been around a switcher board before .I know I can tell when say my delay ,and phaser are on .Then add a boost ,and some od's even when muted out it's got some noticeable noise issues .I don't know if this is a newb question ,but I'm hoping that the switcher adding and subtracting pedals from the chain will eliminate the effect noise ?

[@VertexEffectsInc]

If your pedals are true bypass and turned off you shouldn't have a noise issue any more with the pedals alone versus a bypass strip or switcher. If pedals are on, their noise floor will be present whether they're in a switcher or not.

[@STRATMAN1969]

@@VertexEffectsInc Hey Doc thanks for the reply . It just happens to be my B-Day so it was nice to get this message when I got home from work.I just didn't know if all the pedals being on ,if they were bypassed in the switcher until activated .Regarding the noise floor. I guess I'm under the impression that the switcher takes them out of the chain when not on ,and if that means the noise as well .

[@oldjess]

I'm definitely a huge fan of the Morningstar lineup, understanding that they do not make a self-contained switcher as defined in the video (chill, Mason 😂). I have to say, though, I think its versatility and feature set is at minimum on par with that of RJM (and is actually even more powerful in some areas), and that the user interface of their editor is superior. They are constantly iterating new versions and updates, they take user feature requests very frequently, and their new ML10X switcher unit that had not been released at the time of this video eats everything else for lunch. I would encourage you all to do a little research on that new unit and have a brief discussion on it in one of your upcoming videos.

[@VertexEffectsInc]

They diverge from RJM significantly on the software and programming side. I don't find Morning Start to be on par. I appreciate their products however, I've used them on rigs in the past.

[@kenmasters007]

Fender switchboard now reigns supreme for beginners. Gigrig Atom is tops for pros. Parallel/series switching and wifi, color screen etc. The RJM is best all rounder but needs a refresh. Especially their 10 loop version.

[@VertexEffectsInc]

Agree about fender. Nothing else however

[@kenmasters007]

@@VertexEffectsInc haha would love to see a review of the fender and rjm

[@directassault1662]

Why I use a LoopMaster (and just a LoopMaster). I want a shorter chain that only includes the pedals currently in use. I want all the switches in front rather than having to make awkward taps in the back row. I want my tuner out of the path when I'm not using it, and I want my signal muted when I am using it. I don't need to change multiple things with one tap.

[@VertexEffectsInc]

Totally good option!

[@jpistolas]

I'm in an odd situation. I received a Hotone Patch Commander through a trade. Thing is; Aside of pedals with bad switches I've never really used even TB loopers. It's small & the idea of accessing normally difficult to access pedals is appealing. Should I keep it & try to work it in or sell it & put that towards the next purchase? I mostly play jams with friends & at home btw.

[@VertexEffectsInc]

If you need that feature and it works, fine - use it!

[@jpistolas]

@@VertexEffectsInc Would it solve the age old fuzz/wah issue? I'm guessing no. Edited my own question. It would still have to have a transformer to let the fuzz see the impedence it wants.

[@nuitari666uzgurzmor6]

Will you try out this new LAA customs remote switcher? And what's going on with musicom lab? Are they still producing?

[@VertexEffectsInc]

They look interesting...I think the software will be the key part of the LAA. Musicom Lab is still around, I think it's all supply chain related.

[@paulmatulevich3623]

Hello, so I don't actually have one yet but am just a regular TPS viewer. While the G2 gen wouldn't have the backup he referred to the G3 does via the app so presets can be backed up and ported from there. The app came out a bit later. I think loop editing is all in unit though. You can edit a set list but I think that's the only thing missing. Also I think Dan is more in line with the "no load" philosophy but I don't know the physical spec

[@VertexEffectsInc]

Paul, the software on the G3 is nowhere near what RJM is doing and can't be programmed or shared P2P like any RJM product. Literally I could build a programming and set list from my computer, email or text it to you and you could upload to your RJM product and use it immediately either via USB Stick or via drag and dropping the file from your computer to your RJM software connected to computer via USB. This makes trouble shooting easy as Ron and Sheri can literally see exactly what you're doing programming wise and export you a fix in real time. And the loading is always there, it just depends on how you want to match it. Unloaded is only in reference to what an amp would normally be as a baseline. An amp is 99% of the time 1M ohms - so higher than that is "unloaded", lower than than is "loaded" compared to the reference point of 1M. Anything above or below that is going to change the behavior of the guitar and amp interaction to something different than neutral.

[@paulmatulevich3623]

@@VertexEffectsInc Neat. It's funny, I'm really only familiar with Gigrig for switchers just from watching TPS. Is it fairly standard to have gain controls per loop?

[@VertexEffectsInc]

@@paulmatulevich3623 I wouldn't say standard, but I think it's unnecessary, and forces them to have to use VCA's to do it which aren't really that neutral. Some of this is preference (just like you take your car to three mechanics and they all criticize what the other guy did), but on some of these other things, in effort to innovate, some of the options to me seem like they're not the x factor needed for a great switcher. Any boost in a moveable order switcher can boost any loop in any combination of pedals in any order and you can choose the quality of the boost by the pedal you choose.

[@adamloris]

I guess that quite a lot of the g3 vs PBC10 debate for me depends on if you live in the uk (as I do) because you can’t currently get the PBC10 from a UK dealer; and that has a knock on if it goes down because repairs and replacements are going to be tricky to get. Seems like a great product. I also really don’t understand why the g3 doesn’t have all loops TRS stereo like the atom, or at least the final3/4 loops. If they can do it in the atom why not in the G3.

[@VertexEffectsInc]

I can understand the serviceability factor. Objectively, however, if we're looking at the products for what they are and what they do, I can't see how one lands on the G3 as a superior products, all things being equal. Its features are far abbreviated to the RJM aside from the audio quality, buffers, isolation, and beyond.

[@michaelpeacestewart]

Issues such as noisy click switches can easily be changed over to quiet switch’s like what’s on the rocktrons ect

[@Angus.Maclean]

Great overview and good mention of the MorningStar (Love my MC8). Interesting that once committing to a switcher, an RJM would do both the loops and in-depth midi.

[@VertexEffectsInc]

Thanks for sharing

[@antonylinteau3408]

Es8 does it too right?

[@bschwinn4179]

Hey guys, great video, am in the process of building a new board based on Disaster Area DMC5/8EZ using 11 loops. That musicom MK-V looks like a close match in terms of loops/price and seems a lot more "editable". Could you tell me if the foot switches are actuated "on up" or "on down" on the musicom? The DA stuff has switches that actuate "on up" (since it has to detect things like long-presses) and it's really not something I am used to.

[@VertexEffectsInc]

They're all momentary switches, they're not switching an actuator on the PCB.

[@bschwinn4179]

@@VertexEffectsInc thanks for the reply. pardon typo above, I am running DPC5/8EZs. let me clarify a bit more. I am referring to the logical application of the momentary actuator. put another way, which "edge" is triggering the response. on the DPCs, the change is effected (pun?) when you lift your foot off the switch as opposed to when you "step" onto it. It doesn't act like a kick drum or any drum pad (or pedal) which is what is throwing me.

[@1973asdf]

@@bschwinn4179 whats your opinion on the DPC8??

[@bschwinn4179]

@@1973asdf sold for an RJM PBC 10 - way way better in terms of programmability, size for big feet and every button is config'able for on-up or on-down actuation. Sooooo much better for me.

[@1973asdf]

@@bschwinn4179 i see. thanks for the info man!

[@alexpinkleton1095]

I have a Disaster Area DCP-8EZ but haven’t hooked it up yet. The input buffer is 1M and the output buffer going to the pedals can change but not turn off. Should I still get a buffer interface? Or rely on the buffer in the switcher even though the impedances won’t be “correct”.

[@VertexEffectsInc]

But what's the output impedance and how many buffers and where are they?

[@alexpinkleton1095]

@@VertexEffectsInc it has a 1M input impedance and a selectable output impedance (can’t be turned off). The the output impedances can change between 560, 1k, 10k, 22k, and 33k.

[@1973asdf]

whats your opinion on it??? is it analog? it would be perfect for me but im kinda skeptical about tone quality etc.

[@andreadedo1363]

I own an RJM mastermind PBC and my tech is wiring pedals right in these days. So interesting

[@VertexEffectsInc]

Nice!

[@ElementsPA]

I just bought an Earthquaker Devices Swiss Things for my live setup. I have a Revv G8 noise gate and not sure how I should add this. Should I put this before the Swiss Things since it’s “always on” or should I put this in loop 1? Is a noise gate necessary with these types of loop switchers?

[@VertexEffectsInc]

Depends what you're trying to gate out and if it's in the Swiss Miss or not.

[@ElementsPA]

​@@VertexEffectsInc Thanks for the reply! For more clarification, I am putting my distortion/overdrive into loop 1 and in loop 2 I'll have my reverb and delay. I wasn't sure if there's a specific set up to keep the G8 4-cable method in place, but I found something that might work. I currently use the Revv G8 with the 4-cable method into my amp's effects loop but am cutting down on tap dancing for leads.

[@kristenrocksfrags8584]

Do I need a buffer at the beginning and the end of my chain for my small rig which will be using the ML5 and MC8? This is a totally new approach for me. My big rig will have the G3 and MC6 together so that shouldn’t need a buffer I don’t think.

[@joejohnson8966]

G3 has a buffer. Maybe not to the spec of the Rig doctor but still ok

[@eoinc_Ire]

Could you midi daisy chain two Boss ES5s. One for front of amp second for Fx loop ? So you can trigger loop change on second from the first??

[@VertexEffectsInc]

You could but if you have MIDI pedals you don't need to use them in loops or you could get just the loops part of the switcher with something like a Voodoo Lab Hex or Morning Star.

[@madslashers2002]

Are those pictures of the switchers to scale? Is the PBC10 really that big compared to the ES-8?

[@VertexEffectsInc]

To scale...probably not, just whatever images came up on Google. They're about the same size.

[@jimandcathep9915]

Am I understanding the RJM6 feature that you can use the split mono feature to essentially add loops? So really instead of 6 loops you can really have 10? So you can add more pedals?

[@VertexEffectsInc]

That's correct, you use there stereo loops for two mono loops.

[@jimandcathep9915]

@@VertexEffectsInc awesome - thanks !

[@omilionaudio]

You can actually have up to 11 mono loops if you split all the stereo loops

[@ZachComa]

I have a gen 1 ES-8 and programmed several full banks by hand when I first got it. That was...taxing. I was late to the party when I learned they developed software years later. Even though it's clunky, slow, and has a terrible GUI, it's still a god send and beats clicking through a million menus. I plug the midi right into my audio interface and it recognizes it fine. Regarding customer service, Boss/Roland actually did respond to some of my specific Qs/issues I was having early on, and were able to solve some of them, but I had to figure out half of it myself in the end. It's a giant frustrating game of telephone between their "support" and people that actually know anything about their products.

[@VertexEffectsInc]

Thanks for watching and sharing!

[@Bruhaha9]

If I don’t want MIDI, and would only get minimal use out of reorderable loops and banks, would a basic bypass looper be the way to go if I have 14-16 pedals, am experiencing tone suck, and so far, buffers are not helping? And if so, wouldn’t a looper for that many pedals be a mile wide, and how do I get around that?

[@MrDavemiley]

The one thing I do not lime about the RJM BPC is only "5" presets per bank. . I replace a rack set up with an RJM FX Gizmo with a GigRig 2 pedal set up.

[@omilionaudio]

You can have 2 presets per switch if you utilize the “hold” feature for each button.

[@VertexEffectsInc]

Or Dave, get an AUX switch and get two more presets.

[@barrynichols3121]

Would reordering loops be more useful for home experimentation? I do realize that you can just swap pedals on the board but but a quick way to "try it this way then the other" might be helpful for boost or tremolo and or something else that I can't imagine.

[@VertexEffectsInc]

Perhaps?

[@yesiamgary]

According to internet chatter, the "Loop-Master" switchers are not available. Folks have reported placing orders over a year ago and not getting their product, or even a response. It's possible that something has happened to the person running that company, but it would be advised to make contact before placing an order.

[@VertexEffectsInc]

There are similar styles and improved versions with relays. Gig Rig makes a version that's all relay based called a Quartermaster.

[@Cokun-s9i]

I was using Boss ES5 and now I plan to move to MusicomLab EFX MK VI

[@VertexEffectsInc]

Nice!

[@sidripster506]

I use a GCX switcher in my rack to mix and match pedals and rack units with MIDI controls. I'm a dinosaur I know. Lol cheers 🍻

[@GoodwoodAudio]

If it works for you / ticks the boxes - it's a great choice!

[@VertexEffectsInc]

Old school for sure!

[@DanielCarvalho-cs1qb]

Hi Guys, I really like what you are doing with this fantastic conversations here. I'm a big fan of your work, and please keep on! I'm a true enthusiast of Daniel Steinhardt work, i love the Gigrig brand and in particular the G3 system with all the new updates and Midi Features (about time)! An observation, as I'm living in Europe and I have difficulties in importing articles from the USA or Canada. I love some products from brands like RJM or Kingsley Amplifiers but to achieve that i have to say that's a big pain in the ass because whenever these products arrive here, we have to handle all the hassle, pay in addition to the product the transport, pay customs duties and taxes on those same imported products. Another thing is that the customer service of the Gigrig is very quick and helpfull, so I disagree on the availability and the assumption that customer service isn’t as good as RJM. In conclusion, here I see mostly G2/G3 on the boards that I build, and less RJM products, and for cables I see more Belden, Klotz, Sommer, Shulz, Van Dammeand less Mogami, Evidence...

[@VertexEffectsInc]

Thanks for sharing and thanks for listening.

[@jazzzfer]

Does the morningstar not apply in this race?

[@VertexEffectsInc]

They could be in there for smaller switchers for sure but are disaggregated so they don't really compare to the all-in-one options.

[@rnrmfguitarworks]

I’ve been going down this rabbit hole, and one thing that has surprised me is how few switchers with dual outputs have isolation and phase reverse on the B output. Running a wet/dry rig, this has narrowed my choices to Musicomlab and Gigrig… unless there’s another I’ve missed?

[@VertexEffectsInc]

RJM also does this, probably the best among them.

[@rnrmfguitarworks]

@@VertexEffectsInc on the biggie yes. I’m wanting smaller though (PBC6/ES-5 etc)… the iso out almost always seems to be sacrificed on the smaller brothers.

[@produceradam3747]

Im looking to do a pedalboard build - Los Angeles area - I would love to work with your guys on it.

[@VertexEffectsInc]

We don't offer these services, just tutorial based videos on KZbin, you might check out our "Rig Builders Around The World" video to find a professional near you: kzbin.info/www/bejne/anyaYWOwhs9recU

[@VertexEffectsInc]

Or inquire with Goodwood Audio or Omilion Audio

[@tubular2times]

Does the RJM have SPILLOVER and STEREO DELAY TRAILS?

[@omilionaudio]

PBC10 does

[@smizznoe]

What about the Carl Martin switcher like the octaswitch for simple yet functional? I’m a bass player btw

[@VertexEffectsInc]

Does that do MIDI?

[@smizznoe]

@@VertexEffectsInc I believe the newest version does

[@Souldoubtrocks]

Does the mk vi have the series/parallel mixer per loop as well

[@VertexEffectsInc]

I think it does...you can check with MusicomLab to confirm.

[@Souldoubtrocks]

@@VertexEffectsInc thanks. I’ve emailed them a couple of times with no response. Guess the customer service leaves a lot to be desired. Lol. Love the unit though.

[@5se7en]

What about the Morningstar MC8 with the 2 ML5's and a midi box, is that a better option for a more compact set up? I have a G3 but it's so bulky and heavy.

[@VertexEffectsInc]

Not really 1:1 with these since it's all disaggregated.

[@5se7en]

@@VertexEffectsInc you could look at it like that, or you could say that the Morningstar stuff is modular and expandable and everyone else is you get what you get.

[@FuzzFace]

A more expansive conversation about what is interoperable would be really helpful to players. Like, could I add a voodoo hex to a PBC switcher? Could I put a boss switcher remote and control it from a midi controller? MIDI should allow some flexibility, no? Like using a ML5 satellite from a switcher for just mono drive/dry pedal and let switcher handle stereo effects.

[@MichaelMoore-od4jz]

Would a switcher be good for my board?, using a gt1000 core and want more foot switches, it would be nice if they were all in one unit ?

[@VertexEffectsInc]

You could probably just use a controller (without the switcher part) and do it all there, like the Mastermind from RJM.

[@jacobpittman1996]

Today’s graphics looked like Omilion bucks!

[@omilionaudio]

🤘🏼

[@VertexEffectsInc]

@@omilionaudio OBillion bucks at minimum!

[@studiorat67]

you dont even mention Voodoo Labs PX8 , what's the reason for this are they not worthy of such a board

[@jerryvahnknight218]

Is vertex planning to do another run of collaboration switchers? I missed out last time..

[@VertexEffectsInc]

Not sure at this time.

[@jerryvahnknight218]

@@VertexEffectsInc I really hope you do! This time, I will be first in line!!

[@rockinrew4925]

Thoughts on the voodoo lab px8 plus???

[@VertexEffectsInc]

Seems cool!

[@heathband]

great episode

[@VertexEffectsInc]

Thank you!