The Best Upgrade I've Made to My Rig in YEARS

[@VertexEffectsInc]

Which line-out box method is the most intriguing to you? Tell us in the comments below!

[@EasyHeat]

This kind of just blew my mind for a second. I'm an old school (circa early 90's to early 2000's) touring/studio rat, and I would of NEVER thought about potentially using a line out box in soo many ways! I'm currently on a "poorman's wet/dry rig" tone mission of sorts, (mostly a digital/analog hybrid approach using an OMEC Teleport and combo amps) and this information just opened up a whole new vastly unforeseen toolbox of win! Wowzers.... Ha!! Thanks my dude! That's some great content right there amigo! Ha! Keep being awesome... Cheers!

[@Mr.ABartley]

I have 2018 reissue fender deluxe reverb with a speaker out. Are you saying that I can run an effects loop with a line out box from the speaker out? That would be very cool.

[@stratosexual1329]

@@Mr.ABartley this is what I’m trying to figure out. So line out of the amp into the line out box, line put box i into my effects, effects into the speaker. Is that it or does the speaker need to go back to pedal?

[@truescotsman4103]

I like the Hughes and kettner Redbox works for me phantom powered configurable in a few ways but no volume knob not really necessary

[@Mr.ABartley]

@@stratosexual1329 actually you need two amps. Figured it out after I wrote this. Dry amp and a wet amp you get to by pass the preamp which gives you a better tone/sound is my understanding. I don’t think they are talking about a an effects loop in one amp. Bummer.

[@moetarded7757]

I would say we just entered another dimension for guitar all thanks to utube vids like this……who will be the first to absolutely bust open the door for an new young generation that have plenty of reason to rage, love, and become the new voice of the future. Funny fact I have a teenager with friends and I am see something I haven’t seen since the grunge scene was king.

[@VertexEffectsInc]

Rock on!

[@scottpeters4401]

I use a Fryette PS2 to load down my amp..it’s built in power amp powers my center cab…I take the line out of the Fryette and feed that into an AxeFXIII,which sends my wet FX in stereo to a Marshall stereo power amp,then,my wet cabs…..It’s the best sound I have ever gotten….I am only using the Fractal for FX,but it works great..I have a few pedals in there too…

[@VertexEffectsInc]

Sounds great!

[@RobertFisher1969]

I love the history aspect of this. I think an important point is that the advantage of a line-out over an effects loop is that you capture the character of the power amp with a line-out. So even if you have an effects loop, a line-out may still be something to consider. That said, these days, for the vast majority of people, the more straightforward options available with modern gear make so much more sense than a line-out.

[@VertexEffectsInc]

Yes indeed...the line out is a great way even with an effects loop to have a parallel path separate from your dry amp.

[@TheDilligan]

I did this with a Fender Tweed Champ into a Fender Blackface Deluxe and it sounded amazing. Keith Richards has said he likes to do this with a champ into a tweed Twin. He doesn't like pedals but he does believe in stacking multiple layers of distortion.

[@VertexEffectsInc]

Nice!!!

[@felliperockz7857]

Hi I Love the video. A lot of information that I never had heard before. Could you make a separate video for the "fx loop method" with practice amps and pedals? Because just big amps use to have fx loop and practicing at home people usually use small solid state amps without send-return and this method would allow us to try and know better a lot pedals configurations. On rehearsal there isn't time for those experiments. I think everyone will appreciate! Thanks 🤘😁

[@VertexEffectsInc]

Check out any of our videos on Wet/Dry/Wet rigs and it will explain more on how to do this.

[@felliperockz7857]

@@VertexEffectsInc thanks I definitely will 👍

[@Marshall-uy2dv]

Yep handy little box.I have used one for about 5 years and gives your rig a big sound!Use mine daily!

[@VertexEffectsInc]

They're great!

[@STRATMAN1969]

I've watched all you're videos ,and this is easily in the top 10 ! Great content .I absolutely Love it when you get all in your tutorial territory .The fact that you take the time to make such informative videos ,and share your wealth of knowledge shows what a cool person you are. I have the fondest memory of when I learned how to use a little practice amp ,as a preamp in to a old peavey to get some EVH gain tone's .Your content reminds me of those days back when all we had were the magazines to get a article about how are hero's got the're sounds, and how to try and achieve those sounds ourselves .Thank you Doc u rock

[@VertexEffectsInc]

Wow! Thanks so much!

[@joshscus]

Great video, Mason! I’ve done something similar with my Fender Blues DeVille and my Steel Strings Singer. I took the “preamp out” from the SSS, plugged it into a few wet effects (Strymon El Capistan, Lex, and Flint, and then plugged the signal from the pedals into the power amp return of the Fender. What an incredible sound!!! I also did it the opposite way too by using the Fender preamp -> fx -> SSS power amp in. Only exception is on my particular Fender, if the preamp out is used but nothing is fed back into the power amp, the power section of the amp goes to ground and the speakers are muted. So the sound coming out of the speakers is Fender preamp and 100w SSS power amp. That’s also and incredible sound!!

[@VertexEffectsInc]

Nice! That's basically doing a wet dry rig...next time try some of the wet effects in a parallel mixer and see how you like that!

[@steveg219]

Excellent explanations! For learning purposes this was great but minor quibble- I think Jerry Garcia took the Fender Twin preamp out using a line level mod, not a resistive load. He had the twin preamp output feed his effects chain and then come back to his guitar where he could do master volume/tone adjustments post EFX. This way the signal to his effects chain was always full volume which made a big difference in the tone, especially with level dependent effects like the envelope filter effect. Then the output of the guitar post volume/tone went to a super clean and high power McIntosh amp. He also had an active gain stage in the guitar to buffer the signals and level match. This way the guitar send to effects was full open and fully bright and dynamic. This maintained his ideal tone throughout and then made it really loud without compressing or distorting it further.

[@VertexEffectsInc]

Steve, so the preamp from the amp was with his effects running in front of it and then fed the power amp? Crazy...however I think the general line out application here holds up, short of you having an effects loop in your guitar and having modded a vintage Twin reverb to have a preamp output, this is about the closet you can approximate.

[@steveg219]

@@VertexEffectsInc totally agree. In fact if you put your pedals in the effects loop with a volume pedal at the end of the chain that would be really close. His sound was so clean though so you would have to minimize the gain and use a really clean preamp and power stage. Of course he did many different things over the years but I think this is the basic concept of his 80s and 90s sound- super clean and high headroom, incredible clarity and attack

[@chrisstevens4680]

Something to consider , depending on what your end goal is, the line out from the amp’s transformer/speaker will sound fizzy because there is no cabinet simulation (or impulse response simulating a speaker). Also never run a tube amp without a speaker connected, otherwise you can kiss goodbye to your output transformer etc.

[@jedininjaknight8733]

Loved the FX Loop Method! I ran the line out to a Helix and then into some monitors... very versatile.

[@VertexEffectsInc]

Nice! Thanks for watching!

[@chrisminor6362]

Hey there Mason. This video made me think of a topic that comes up a lot in some of the forums I'm in. There is a ton of discussion of wether to use a line isolator, di, buffer, or run straight from pedals when using things like the HX series/Fractial/Kemper, and pedals like the ACS1 and Iridium. It may be beneficial to see a video on that with so many people converting to those types of rigs.

[@VertexEffectsInc]

Thanks for the suggestion! Seems like unless the mixer was far away from the pedalboard, most of these devices could run at least 50ft of unbalanced cable without much loss if any.

[@chrisminor6362]

@@VertexEffectsInc I've mentioned that. I was scolded one time because someone stated something alongs the lines of "if the pedal got hit with a surge of phantom power from the board, the pedal wouold get fried." It didn't make any sense to me, but then, I'm not a rig dr. When Walrus came out with the Canvas, one of the prominent members of one of my fb groups said that a lot of these are just a way to get $ from people. Most of these don't serve a huge purpose, not in the way that they are marketed anyway. Just thought it would be coo to hear your take on it and the differences of what the purposes of each are.

[@jpistolas]

I'm still picking up my jaw from that initial Hungry Like the Wolf riff.

[@VertexEffectsInc]

Ha! Thanks!

[@vmor80]

Thank you so much for making this video. It's being shipped as I write this. This will definitely clean up my tones and complete my starter rig. I've learned so much from your video, I owe you a debt of gratitude!

[@VertexEffectsInc]

Glad it was helpful!

[@bwedwards67]

Great info as always Mason! The fx loop method was most interesting to me. I never thought of using effects like this especially with my Vox amps without effects loops. What an awesome way to add my time based effects after the preamp. I will be experimenting.

[@VertexEffectsInc]

Yes, it's a more "studio" trick to get wet processing after the amp.

[@jerryvahnknight218]

These tips and licks made me hungry like the wolf! Awesome!!

[@VertexEffectsInc]

😂😂😂

[@adamcherry434]

I’ll have to watch it again and again to get the amount of great info in every sentence. Overwhelmed in a good way again 😊

[@VertexEffectsInc]

Thanks for watching!

[@franciscopacobarreras9270]

Love the video!! Personally I use the Bray LO-1 in my wet/dry/wet rig. Bray amp too! It’s a monster!!!

[@VertexEffectsInc]

Glad you dig it!

[@NeonCowell]

Just here to say that it's mularkey that BART asks for cash and change for parking but their change machine is often out of order. Also great video as always!

[@VertexEffectsInc]

Ha!

[@scott_NakBets]

Very useful info! I'm piecing together my first pedal board. I have the drive pedals already. I was going to add some "wet" effects, and just put them in series, but I think I'll try the wet/dry/wet method after viewing this!

[@VertexEffectsInc]

Yes, you'll need a line out box and also some sort of stereo cab sim...otherwise you'll need a stereo power amp and two extra speaker cabinets.

[@wheresallthezombies]

The tone in this video is probably my favorite I’ve heard from you. I love it! I’m going to see if I can do that first setup with my captor x. It’d be interesting to see what my friedman into my bogner sounds like and Vice versa.

[@VertexEffectsInc]

Wow thank you! Thanks for watching!!!

[@waynegram8907]

The only way to get those SRV dimension D tones is to use a Lineout box plus using a boss LS Line selector using a graphic EQ in the parallel send and return ports of the boss LS line selector. Using the boss LS line selector as a recording console parallel path to run the Boss Dimension D and the graphic EQ pedal. This will act like a stereo mix buss on a console just like how SRV engineers used it. The boss LS has 2 send and return ports for put 2 different pedals in parallel. I hope you will make a video lesson about this because also you can hear a studio Slapback stereo delay on SRV guitar solos and David Bowie albums with SRV can really hear that slapback ROOM style stereo delay which sounds like it was add on the mix buss of the stereo mix buss channel before it went to the master tapes.

[@ianybanez6884]

Or you know….. you could use something a little more modern than a boss line selector 😂😂😂

[@VertexEffectsInc]

Wayne, I don't know if I've met anyone that loves the Boss Line Selector as much as you do ;). I showed how to get the SRV Tone with a simpler rig, and by all reports, it was very close. If you fully wanted to emulate a mix bus, you'd really need a parallel mixer and we showed that in the SRV video and compared a real Dimension D to how we used the DC-2W via the line out with a cab/mic simulation from the Two Notes Cab M.

[@waynegram8907]

@@VertexEffectsInc Which guitar pedals are like a mix buss console that has parallel send and returns?

[@VertexEffectsInc]

@@waynegram8907 typically guitar rigs used parallel mixers to do this, CAE Line Mixer, Rane SM26, RJM Mini Mix, Musicom Lab Parallelizer.

[@waynegram8907]

@@VertexEffectsInc I have seen you use that Misicom lab parallelizer in other of vertex videos. I think the boss LS-2 is the smallest pedal size parallel mix buss mixer in a small package and as the lowest price compared to the CAE line mixer, Rane SM26, RJM Mini Mix and Parallelizer. I'm not sure if they make a very small pedal size that is a mix buss console mixer that has multiple parallel send/return ports.

[@AJbassist]

as bassist, this super common, a lot of us use sansamp RBI in the fx loop and use the power section of AMPeg SVT

[@VertexEffectsInc]

Nice! Thanks for watching! More bass gear has line out options where it's far less common on guitar these days.

[@AJbassist]

@@VertexEffectsInc bass always seem takecdidferent routes then guitar , look at The Who or Joy Division/new order rigs , oh god phish

[@VertexEffectsInc]

@@AJbassist ha!

[@Souldoubtrocks]

My man makes great amps too. Under the radar

[@VertexEffectsInc]

So I’ve heard!

[@waynegram8907]

Lineout box#1 should go to a reactive load then to another lineout box#2 that has send/return ports for guitar pedals then to a 2note speaker simulator IR. I have notice in your videos you omit the reactive load and just use the lineout box straight to a 2 note speaker simulator IR. Its best to use a complex RCL reactive load then to a lineout box to insert guitar pedals then goes to an IR simulator. If you take the tube amplifiers line out box its going to be very "FLAT" going into guitar pedals then going into a reactive load. The other way METHOD is using the reactive load signal then feeding that into guitar pedals then taking the line out box line level signal and feeding that into an IR simulator.

[@hoosierdaddy2308]

This is so cool. I've never used but one amp at a time, so I've not had a reason, but if I ever get a second amp this is great.

[@VertexEffectsInc]

Well worth it!

[@Souldoubtrocks]

Awesome. I just bought this about two weeks ago. It’s great.

[@VertexEffectsInc]

Yessir!!!

[@danielfrabotta5501]

Another great video!!!! One recording idea that popped into my head is running a load box on the amp and then putting a line out box first in your effects loop so you can record the dry preamp signal simultaneously with the wet signal so the wet level can be adjusted in the mix after the fact. Lots of modelers offer this feature via usb but this could be an analogue way of achieving the same thing. Cheers!!!

[@VertexEffectsInc]

That's what the Wet/Dry/Wet example is doing but using the line out inside the Soldano (which is built into the amp), however the cabinet is the load instead of the load box (or Suhr IR Reactive Load).

[@danielfrabotta5501]

@@VertexEffectsInc. that would be a very handy feature in the studio. Thanks again.

[@VertexEffectsInc]

@@danielfrabotta5501 Yes, its origins are all studio-based.

[@steveburchfield5576]

Buzzy Fieiten had the first Bradshaw Rack. I saw it and met him in Nashville at the Exit/Inn in the late seventies. The Larson-Fieten Band were fantastic!!!!

[@billhuang6506]

I wanted to add a wrinkle. I love this idea and decided to try it with the Line 6 Helix since I run all digital these days. Anyway, I took a Plexi PREAMP and ran it into a Blues Tweed like your EVH idea but different amps. Wow, is all I can say. Not trying to open the digital vs analog debate but, I wanted to tell those that run modelers that this can be done quite easily and can sound insanely good. I've got a lot of ideas for different combinations like your Plexi into Slo 100. That should be cool too. Anyway... try it out!

[@VertexEffectsInc]

Can you separate the pre/power amps in those amp models in the Helix?

[@billhuang6506]

@@VertexEffectsInc Absolutely. They have a separate preamp model for each amp. Then another version with the power amp built in. So I run the Plexi preamp into the Blues Tweed Amp (preamp and power amp together). Then all that runs into a cab IR. Super easy. You could chain 2 or 3 more if you wanted to. I also experimented with a Tube Screamer into the Plexi Pre then into the Tweed. Also good. Gives nice gain build as you engage each block. Using just the preamp like a stomp box also saves on processing power. As another approach, you could run two amps (with power sections) in parallel into one or 2 cabs. But, I like your idea of using a preamp like a boost pedal or overdrive for "amp like" behavior.

[@waynegram8907]

What I have read and heard is that Jerry Garcia techs dead head crew disconnected the fender twins power section and also removed all the power tubes then made a Preamp output jack that fed to the macs power amplifier. I'm not sure what is the correct term how EVH would slave his plexi amplifier using the lineout driving it into another 2nd plexi amplifiers input, but there must be a term for this type of configuration. When playing an echoplex infront of the plexi doing this type of configuration it created a "Bounce" type effect when plucking. Its really hard to get that EVH Bounce with analog delays, digital delays but only happens when using the echoplex buffer and the tape delay time to zero. When plucking the guitar strings it created a certain Bounce effect.

[@VertexEffectsInc]

Thanks for that clarification, I guess that would prevent them from having to use the power section of the Twin feeding the secondary power amp from the McIntosh if he didn't want any influence of the power section on the dry amp "preamp". EVH had a bit more complicated version of this than what was said in the video with the Variac'd amps etc. The closer approximation as pointed out here in the comments, is the Lukather Mesa Boogie era example.

[@waynegram8907]

@@VertexEffectsInc EVH had one red Variac for both slave Plexi amplifiers or only for the slave or master? His tech Jose A. Made that resistive load box for lineout and power soaking but it's not clear if the red Variac controlled both the slave and 2nd amplifiers VAC line voltage to be at 90VAC

[@VertexEffectsInc]

@@waynegram8907 Not sure, I'm no EVH expert.

[@waynegram8907]

@@VertexEffectsInc Its ok, when you have time try to look it up by because Jose A. Has done many amplifier modifications

[@waynegram8907]

@@VertexEffectsInc The main reason why Jerry Garcia used the McIntosh power amplifier was because it had very clean headroom and wattage power to play big concerts but also what is unusual is his wood cabinet has 3 speakers 12inches which puts the total ohms not at 4,6,8,16 it's an odd ohmic resistance have 3 speakers loading the fender twin power amp or McIntosh power amp

[@gilguajardo7808]

Fun video, Mason! The Guytron amps (remember those?) do this guitar-amp-as-OD into guitar amp internally, right? Always loved that idea. Hey, I noticed that you keep referring to the line out as using the first amp’s preamp. But it’s using the power amp’s tone, too, since it’s sending everything that preceeds the speaker. I know you know this. Just wanted to clarify for others. Or am I missing something? (Always possible!)

[@VertexEffectsInc]

Yes, off the output the output transformer, I think that's said in the intro as to what a Line Out does. I can see how it was confusing to follow in the cascading amps example. I was trying to paraphrase it more like how someone would understand using an overdrive pedal to feed another overdrive pedal, or "stacking" in order to get a more saturated tone.

[@shawnshipstad9281]

Thank you. I always learn something very valuable by your videos. In addition it explains why I have seen so many heads run at the same time. I guess I will not be doing as much head scratching..

[@VertexEffectsInc]

Hahahahaha!

[@spivvo]

Nice bit of Duran Duran at the beginning there

[@VertexEffectsInc]

Classic!

[@jamesprice6381]

Not here to offend, or critique, just what i heard in 80s/90's guitar player EVH used the Arredondo box as a load to drive the ...FX.... into H&H power amps, im sure he changed ALOT, and im SURE he lined out into another amp for sho.. But this was out of his own mouth in an interview.Course many say he never told the truth, for propieties sake, so..who knows for sure! lol

[@bryanp8010]

I use a Morley ABY switch to do something similar running two amps and two pedal boards. The stereo sound of my my Marshall and AC30 together is amazing.

[@VertexEffectsInc]

It's not remotely the same. 1) You're not in parallel, and 2) nor are your amps in series with one-another to add gain and distortion to each other depending on which amp is feeding which preamp. An ABY box is a splitter...you have a split mono system.

Thanks! really enjoyed those recent videos of yours on SRV and this one!

[@VertexEffectsInc]

Glad you like them!

[@godbyone]

Srv was a good one

[@VertexEffectsInc]

@@godbyone Yes!

[@carsgunsandguitars]

I use the Bray for my W/D/W rig and love it

[@VertexEffectsInc]

Great product!

[@carsgunsandguitars]

@@VertexEffectsInc i love it

[@kennyh5083]

Absolute Great Info VDO Bro!

[@VertexEffectsInc]

Glad you think so!

[@charlesmaschi3238]

Great video, I learned so much. I never tried using the line out to hook two amps together. Thanks.

[@VertexEffectsInc]

Have fun!!!

[@kevmac1230]

Great info.Nothing here for me as a bass player but this is so cool and on the cheap.

[@VertexEffectsInc]

Thanks for watching nonetheless!

[@KKMcK1]

Yep. This is what I was talking about a year ago. Thanks for catching up.

[@VertexEffectsInc]

Huh?

[@KKMcK1]

@@VertexEffectsInc Huh?

[@drdre4397]

@@KKMcK1 You good? A lot of the comments you've made on this channel are just negative and bitter.

[@KKMcK1]

@@drdre4397 Thanks for asking. Have you looked around? America is on the brink of a civil war, the world is on the brink of WWIII, and the bottom-feeders of capitalism are in control. So, your question can be looked at in at least two ways: The micro and the macro. The inner world and the outer world. The material and the spiritual. "if you are not outraged, you are not paying attention." I could go into the details, but then I would just bore us both. So, the honest answer to your question is yes, and no. My biggest pet peeve about capitalism is that it is a pay-to-play, exclusionary exclusivity, on a tilted playing field, locked away behind gilded gates and fences. Look, but don't touch. No matter how hard you work, or how brilliant and/or talented you are, you are never going to see the light of day. As George Carlin said, "It's a big club and you;re not in it." The details are the diversion. Technique over talent. A maze in the tall weeds. "Wealth: Allowing you to become the complete asshole you were born to be." And that is just scratching the surface. I'm off to work now. Have a great day!

[@jeffadams4952]

Great info & great application!

[@VertexEffectsInc]

Thanks for watching!

[@DrErickLopez]

Just purchased for my vintage fender bassman. 2 questions…where does my overdrive pedal go? And …How would you do the wet/dry/wet using a vintage fender? Im picking up a cab Zeus soon. My chorus, reverb and delay pedals are all stereo capable. And im running a Strymon Riverside for my overdrive. Thanks! And awesome content as always

[@giuliosanti6371]

Hi Mason! First of all, congratulations! Your videos are really good. I have only one amp (fender tone master super reverb), but I want to buy another amp (my 1st choice is: Roland JC 40) in order to create a wet/dry rig. The tone master super reverb has only a XLR line out, with a dedicated level control and a ground-lift switch. My questions are: 1. if I use a “female xlr to jack” cable to connect the Super Reverb’s line out to a parallel mixer (which manages all the modulations, delay and reverbs) and then another jack cable from the parallel mixer’s output to the return of the JC 40 (wet amp), do you think that it would work good? 2. In the first connection (super reverb’s line out -> parallel mixer), do I have to put a line out box in between? Thanks

[@VertexEffectsInc]

1) You could use an XLR to 1/4" TS jack with the Cab Sim off and feed your wet effects, yes, and either go into the input or the return of the Roland JC40 - depends on where the chorus is in the circuit, might be cool to have that available if it's before the power amp section of the amp FX return. I'm not sure. 2) You don't need a line out box for this application, no. The amp provides it

[@giuliosanti6371]

@@VertexEffectsInc thank you very much!

[@ian1eh944]

This was great! Nice to see a rack in the video too! :)

[@av8tordonny398]

This is really interesting to me as I’ve never experimented with doing this. My question is, if you want to make tonal adjustments, for example more bass, which amp do you make the adjustment on?

[@jeremywalker2210]

@Vertex Effects Kind of hilarious that I can see loose cords under your desk considering your most known for cable management!! 😂 Seriously great content though in all seriousness. Thanks Mason.

[@VertexEffectsInc]

Ha! Those are the two AC cables that feed the computer and daw and the rack...if I move them into the cable management tray behind the desk it creates some hum :( so I have to live with it this way

[@nicolashauss4075]

The cobbler always wears the worst shoes haha

[@VertexEffectsInc]

@@nicolashauss4075 Ha...in this case, the cobbler was ready to make some shoes it just turns out the better fit was not quite as neat ;)

[@kittortuga2720]

sweet tone/playing bro!!!

[@orangebangmang]

Would there still be a need for a line out box if you were to do something similar to the jerry garcia method (separate preamp into separate power amp) if you were using a dedicated preamp guitar pedal (EQ, volume, gain, etc. controls) into a power amp/cab?

[@VertexEffectsInc]

Only if you wanted the option to have a second power amp and speakers separate from what your preamp is feeding.

[@efrainmeza9872]

in star licks steve lukather used a boogie Mark II c as a glorified fuzz into other amp wich had the lead sound I think, used the amp in series as a pedal

[@VertexEffectsInc]

Yes, many players would do this with the "slave" outputs. It is a great tone! Certainly make it "amp like".

[@CraigFlowersMusic]

I use a line out box to spice up my breakfast cereal! I use a line out box to fill out my cup size! I use a line out box as a turkey call! I use a line out box on the wife! Actually I didn't even know about these LOL Super cool, thanks!

[@VertexEffectsInc]

Hahahaha!

[@VictorSanPedro]

love the graphics ;)

[@VertexEffectsInc]

A labor of love ;)

[@masonmejia2558]

Came for the tones, stayed for the graphics

[@VertexEffectsInc]

@@masonmejia2558 ha!!!

[@dazedconfused9224]

Hi, thanks for your video which is very interesting. I'm trying to set up my rig as per your EVH method. I have a Marshall JMP 2204 head and a JVM 410 H. So would like to run the JMP into the JVM. From your image I don't understand what to do for the "Speaker Through"? Do I need that? The back of my JPM has the standard 2 speaker outputs but also has a mod to include a DI output. Could you advise me of best way to connect the 2 amps? Many thanks

[@scooter5005]

Well this presentation is probably well beyond what I want to do, but at least now I've heard of how to use multiple amps together

[@VertexEffectsInc]

Line Out Box is the MVP here :)

[@tobygriffin4923]

How are you constructing your “hungry like the wolf” tone? (Effercts and order)

[@VertexEffectsInc]

Guitar, 1969 Marshall Superlead (DRY - Channel 1), then Line Out Box, Red Seven Lil Wave, Source Audio Collider set to Ping Pong Delay and Plate Reverb in stereo to a Stereo Cab Zeus set for V30 speakers feeding my Interface Channels 2 & 3 for WET left and right. You can watch my video on my wet/dry/wet pedalboard to know more about it: kzbin.info/www/bejne/n2inhXeKbM6hl7s

[@delefo]

I am going to regret not asking if I don't. Will this allow me to do the most simple thing of creating a effects loop on a amp that does not have one. I want guitar, a few pedals, amp, Line out box, a few pedals to a real cab. Is that possible ?

[@VertexEffectsInc]

Yea but you’ll need either a powered cabinet or a power amp feeding passive speaker cabinets for the wet.

[@giostroppa]

Great tone., sounds amazing.

[@VertexEffectsInc]

🙏🙏🙏

[@StClairMusic]

Hey, Mason! What chorus pedal are you using? My GOD that things sounds great!

[@VertexEffectsInc]

Red Seven Lil Wave. You can see the full rundown of my rig here: kzbin.info/www/bejne/n2inhXeKbM6hl7s

[@StClairMusic]

@@VertexEffectsInc Thanks, Mason! It appears that chorus is a bit hard to come by but I'd buy one. I love that tone you got when you were playing Hungry Like The Wolf. AWESOME!

[@VertexEffectsInc]

@@StClairMusic I got mine on Reverb.com

[@briankowalchik8309]

Would you need a line out box if the amplifier has a line out?

[@VertexEffectsInc]

No, but it probably won't be isolated.

[@MantisTobagganGaming1]

In both the FX loop and wet/dry/wet method's, how are you using 3 inputs on the apollo twin X? IIRC that interface only has two inputs?

[@VertexEffectsInc]

You can expand using ADAT and get eight more channels out of your Apollo Twin.

[@lukegalvan3093]

What pickups are in that beautiful les paul?

[@VertexEffectsInc]

Whatever's stock in an R8 from 2018

[@paulcowart3174]

@@VertexEffectsInc Yes I have 2019 Standard but was actually underwhelmed at first till I put 11 - 49 gauge string's and raised the action up At 8.4 lbs I'm really happy with it now Actually pulled the trigger because of the weight Stock pups seem fine Changing parts isn't always the answer Cheers

[@VertexEffectsInc]

@@paulcowart3174 wow, nice!

[@alexanderwald2046]

thank god we can do this in our modellers by drag and drop

[@JonJoshChua]

Is there a "box" that allows FX between the power amp to speaker in a single channel? I like your line out box FX loop 3 channel wet dry wet method.

[@VertexEffectsInc]

Fryette Power Station?

[@JonJoshChua]

@@VertexEffectsInc Yes Thank you!

[@michaelcraig9449]

Ok soo.. the two lines connecting the amp and line out box, are they both going from the amp, or is one of them fed back to the amp? This stuff is real confusing. All I ever did was run guitar through a few pedals into the front input of amp...So anything beyond that, I am lost. I sure as hell dont want to plug stuff up wrong, maybe get shocked, start a fire, etc.. Now these type of set ups discussed on this video is for stadium and arena players right? This is not all necessary to play a bar or anything less than arenas, right? I played in bars, and I never saw any bar player with anything so fancy, unless it was a huge like 600- 800 seat bar, and someone fairly well known was playing.

[@bjstein4242]

I'm scratching my head in the same manner.. What is the difference between the 2 lines out (or IN) of the Marshall "SPEAKER THROUGH vs SPEAKER OUT".. we all know what as speaker OUT is.. and it better have a LOAD behind it.. but is there a SPEAKER THROUGH GOING BACK TO THE MARSHALL FROM THE SUHR??.. why? and where is it going? I'm confused.. If you dont have a LOAD, am i to assume you need a CAB on the marshall itself via LINE THROUGH from the LO Box?

[@VertexEffectsInc]

The two lines connecting to the amp are from the speaker cabinet to the line out box and from the line out box to the amplifier head (or speaker out). Then you have an unbalanced line level signal out of the line out box (guitar cable) that feeds either your pedals you want after the line out or you can feed into another amplifier input if you want to overdrive the input of that amp.

[@VertexEffectsInc]

BJ, if you don't connect your cab on the dry amp with the line out box, then you'll need a load of some kind, yes. The line out box is not a load.

[@18JR78]

Good opening tone.

[@VertexEffectsInc]

Wow, thanks!

[@lorenzocomelli2898]

Thank you Mason for this helpful videos! Just a couple of questions , i have the suhr reactive load ir and i wanna to use It die the effects loop method for my vintage style Marshall amp that don't have effects loop, which output i have ti use? The unfiltered, the IR or the Thru? Then i have to go to a mixer or an Active speaker cab? Can i use every modulation, delay and reverb pedals that work at instrument level signal or they might work on line level signals in the input ? Thank you so much!

[@Mr.ABartley]

I have 2018 reissue fender deluxe reverb with a speaker out. Are you saying that I can run an effects loop with a line out box from the speaker out? That would be very cool.

[@VertexEffectsInc]

You can run wet pedals in post (after your amp) by using the line out box...however you have to feed them to something, either a power amp or a simulation of some kind, or you can feed them to powered monitors. Also the Fryette Power Station will allow you to add a full effects loop to your Deluxe Reverb without any mods as an alternative.

[@DrErickLopez]

@@VertexEffectsInc :(

[@GlennJimenez]

Crazy how there isn’t as much difference between custom shop and Gibson USA as it seems.

[@VertexEffectsInc]

Not sure how this video might have clarified that but...cool!

[@kenphillips3282]

This is not making any sense to me. If you are running a “line out” box after the speaker of the first amp, you are effectively using BOTH the pre amp AND the power stage of the first amp and running a full range signal into the pre amp of the next amp. For instance, you mention that Gerry Garcia liked the pre amp of the Fender and the Macintosh power amp, but he’s pulling the signal after the Fender power amp if he is using the speaker in and thru option. He would need to pull the signal from the effects send to be pre amp only. Am I correct here, or have I got it wrong?

[@VertexEffectsInc]

You're running after the output transformer, not the speaker, but yes, in most cases you're after your preamp and power amp, but still placing your effects after your distortion and preamp (where the distortion is most typically generated) so you get the benefits of an effects loop (wet effects after the gain), and you also have the ability to mix your wet effects in parallel with the dry effects (which you can't do typically with an effects loop, and even if it's a parallel loop, it wouldn't be stereo). I tried to abbreviate the explanation to make it more sensible to someone that understood pedals into a clean amp so they could approximate how it would change the overall tone by having a separate power amp section that would be much more "linear" compared to what was in the Fender Amp alone. In the Jerry Garcia example you're taking everything in the Fender amp, up till the output transformer and feeding it into the power amp section (100W with 5881 tubes in the Soldano SLO). If you wanted to isolate the preamp section only, you could take an effects send out of the amp (but Jerry's Twins wouldn't have had effects loops, so I tried to represent it more as he would have used it at the time although my Fender Hot Rod ML does have an effects loop).

[@SparkyGoldsmith]

If I'm following everything, and I think I am, showing the speaker through lines is just confusing as hell when you aren't actually using them. I've seen you use these diagrams before and had the same reaction in those videos too.... WHAT?!!!

[@middle_pickup]

I have never heard that Eddie did that, but it doesn't surprise me that people would have looked to such bizarre methods of increasing levels of distortion. I'm so glad pedals are where they are today. Geez.

[@VertexEffectsInc]

EVH's was a little more "nuanced" than what I shoed here with power amps, variac, and slaving heads, but similar. The closer method would be Lukather (as a friend pointed out to me) during his Mesa Boogie phase where he would use the Slave Out to do this...still a legitimate use fo the line out box nonetheless.

[@paulcowart3174]

Also if you take a low wattage amp that's has some gain and line out into a 100 watter or other big clean amp has great results

[@waynegram8907]

Which lineout boxes are REACTIVE lineout boxes? maybe vertex should make a reactive lineout box

[@marvinbrando5408]

As I understand it, a line out box just taps the signal from between the amp and the cab with the cab serving as the load. The speakers in the cab are a reactive load, so the line out box taps the signal of the amp reacting to the the end load (the speakers in the cab). Alternatively, you could put a line out box in between and amp and an actual reactive load (e.g. Suhr Reactive Load) or purely resistive load (e.g. THD Hot Plate or just a giant resistor of the appropriate impedance (2,4,8,18 ohm) and sufficient wattage to handle the signal put out by the amp, and skip a cab altogether (for silent recording). A line out box just siphons off a little bit of whatever signal is passing from the amp to whatever is at the end of the chain loading down the amp, and let you send a line level signal (not speaker level signal) to wherever you want to send it (another power amp, a cab zeus, or unfiltered into you DAW where you can apply an IR speaker sim to process it into what it would sound like going through a cab with speakers. A line out box can not serve as a load by itself, although some reactive and passive loads include a line out feature obviating the need for a separate line out box.

[@tubo777]

This video reminded me about your trichorus version, is it going to happen?

[@VertexEffectsInc]

Working on it...BBD's are the tricky part...might just need to go Cool Audio like everyone else.

[@jesseparrish9198]

Can i use a line out box into a recording device or will i need a cab sim?

[@kennyh5083]

Hot Dam'n I am in luv whit dat intro vibe!

[@VertexEffectsInc]

Wow, thanks!

[@paul-markfransky6402]

Could I use a line out box from my Dumble style amp into a vintage Marshall to get extra volume\headroom?

[@VertexEffectsInc]

You could, but you'll need a load if you don't want the speaker cabinet to be active on your Dumble Style amp, and your Marshall will need an FX Loop so you can break into the FX Return (power amp input).

[@paul-markfransky6402]

@@VertexEffectsInc ah ok. It’s a Dumble style head and 2x12 cab but the vintage Marshall doesn’t have a effects loop so I guess it’s not possible

[@VertexEffectsInc]

@@paul-markfransky6402 Nope, but you could feed your Marshall into the return of the Dumble FX Return if you wanted with a line out box.

[@blacksmithhammerhandle]

Is it possible to use a noise gate/suppressor with one of these line out box methods?

[@VertexEffectsInc]

I wouldn't use it in the line out, I'd use it around the pedals and preamp of the amp only.

[@rsothe3rd]

I have a 2 channel Conrad Velvet Hammer Amp with a clean and lead channel. Great amp, but no effects loop. Would the Bray LO-1 line out box work to run delay and reverb between the preamp and speaker while my overdrive and fuzz go into the front of my amp? I already have a great spring reverb built into my amp but my new Walrus Audio R1 needs to go into an effects loop to sound its best. Also would one of your Vertex clean boost pedals be beneficial going into the line out box in this scenario?

[@VertexEffectsInc]

You’ll need some sort of cab sim for the wet processing after the line out like a GFI Cab Zeus or Cab M by Two Notes.

[@thrashtilldeath946]

I really enjoyed the video I got a Bray line out box coming so I'm going to try the wet dry wet method and I appreciate the video and the recommendations and I'm sure I'll have to watch this video again. 🤘🤘🔥🔥

[@VertexEffectsInc]

Enjoy!

[@thrashtilldeath946]

I did have a question that was kind of confusing me what's the difference between the speaker emulated out and a normal line out? Cuz both of my ams have speaker emulated jacks. Could you please explain the difference between both and give me a definition of both? Any help would be greatly appreciated.

[@gunsandguitars6678]

So double amping with an attenuator correct? Wow excellent ☆☆☆☆

[@VertexEffectsInc]

No attenuator, just using the reactive load IR as a load.

[@gunsandguitars6678]

Can you run a stereo delay or would that get lined feedback or is that over-reaching so if my speaker cabinet is stereo I can split it run to Mic's to the PA, I like the Eddie Van Halen sequence but that looks dangerous I guess if it's an attenuator? it's the line out right? I guess I have to study this more thank you for yet another option it may increase setup time but it sounds like it'll be worth it , you rock☆...

[@VertexEffectsInc]

I ran stereo delays and reverb on all these examples after the line out. What's the dangerous part? As long as you have a load you're fine.

[@robertkidd6270]

Duran Duran! Hungry like a wolf hehe

[@VertexEffectsInc]

Yes!

[@morganjohansson7727]

Whats the different between line out box and di box? Thanks morgan sweden

[@VertexEffectsInc]

Completely unrelated, there is no connection from DI from the amplifier, the line out box taps off the output transformer inside the amplifier to provide you a line level output with both the pre and power amps (but no speaker) to feed the wet effects (or another amp as shown here, or another power amp section). DI's would be taken off the guitar or before getting to the amplifier and typically aren't used to create parallel effects chains with the amplifier being the "DRY" and the DI being the "WET". Often DI for the guitar could be used for things like re-amping, or having a direct signal to blend (in this case in parallel) with the mic'd amp and effects.

[@KJ4VGA]

@@VertexEffectsInc a lot passive DIs allow you to connect it between the amp and speaker with the thru jack. I believe that is what theyre asking about.

[@user-wv5gv3dw5u]

Would this allow me to add a FX loop to my Fender Bassbreaker?

[@VertexEffectsInc]

It’ll allow you to do what I did with my vintage Marshall. You’ll ideally want some sort of cab simulation that your wet processing can feed into like a Cab Zeus or Two Notes Cab M. You would feed that into powered monitors or your DAW.

[@MrMojo777]

@@VertexEffectsInctell me if im wrong but if your going to mic those wet cabs on stage for FOH then the Sim device will need to be able to turn off the mic sim emulation and just be a cab sim!! this still blows me away people micing up FRFR cabs of MIC/CAB sim sound...duh! ideally Device needs balanced FOH feed LR XLR outs and a TRS out with (mic sim off function) to stage wet Cabs an a TR Jack for thru or post Preamp Send to DRY stage amp...

[@timmarco]

So cool!!

[@VertexEffectsInc]

Thank Dr. Marco!

[@Can.Mayali]

Doctor, what is the difference between my Behringer Ultra-g and this line-out device by Bray? Do I really need it or can I use mine for the same function? Thanks in advance.

[@VertexEffectsInc]

No idea what that is???

[@Can.Mayali]

It's an active DI Box. Also it has 4x12" cabinet simulator button. Cheesy but works well.

[@VertexEffectsInc]

@@Can.Mayali not sure that it's a line out box then...seems like a different thing.

[@mikewhittenmusic]

Yes you can but ultra g only has an xlr output. You will need to convert the xlr to 1/4" to do what Mason is doing.

[@mikewhittenmusic]

Mason. The ultra g is a di box that can be fed with an amp speaker outupt. It has a through jack like any di and 2 input pads to knock down the signal from a speaker output. The xlr out has a switch to engage an analog cab sim. $40...

[@sasop.9417]

Hi Mason, how many mA does the Red Seven lil wave Chorus draws/require ? Thanks in advance.

[@VertexEffectsInc]

Less than 100mA I think.

[@sasop.9417]

@@VertexEffectsInc thanks for your quick reply. So I shouldn't have problems powering the pedal with 9v right?

[@VertexEffectsInc]

@@sasop.9417 9V battery??? Don't know that it takes a battery.

[@sasop.9417]

@@VertexEffectsInc no, 9v from power supply Voodoo power plus 3

[@VertexEffectsInc]

@@sasop.9417 Yes, that's perfect!

[@Burnt_Gerbil]

Metallica did a similar thing with running a Mesa preamp into a Marshall effects return. Essentially using the power amp section. Cool stuff indeed.

[@VertexEffectsInc]

Yes, so did Lukather and many others, certainly not a unique set up.

[@randalldugan3525]

He should SHOW you where the cables to and from the line out box connect instead of just telling you. This might help prevent novices like myself from frying some experience gear.

[@VertexEffectsInc]

You mean like at 4:07? Most of these will also come with manuals to show how to connect them.

[@peterschaefer1665]

Does phase ever become an issue? I noticed that the Suhr has a phase switch

[@VertexEffectsInc]

Very rarely, and the only reason why the Suhr does is because it has a transformer, and the Bray does not.

[@marknachmias423]

Can you use a Tone King Ironman II as a line-out box?

[@VertexEffectsInc]

Does it have a line out on it and a volume control?

[@SkeeterMcBeater]

Cool beans

[@VertexEffectsInc]

Thanks for watching!

[@peevee605]

Brilliant.

[@VertexEffectsInc]

Thanks for watching!

[@peevee605]

@@VertexEffectsInc you betcha.

[@craiglizt8074]

Okay, I’m starting to turn the corner on Mason. Great video…learned a lot here.

[@VertexEffectsInc]

Hope it was helpful!

[@craiglizt8074]

@@VertexEffectsInc super helpful! We'll done 👍

[@Chord_The_Seeker]

Could I use DI box to do the same thing?

[@VertexEffectsInc]

Not remotely.

[@13Hangfire]

@@VertexEffectsInc Do you mean with a pedal with an on/off switch?

[@gregsandifer2398]

Great video...

[@VertexEffectsInc]

Thanks for watching!

[@13Hangfire]

You lost me on the WDW method... why did you use an amp with a "line out" when the video is about using a "line out" box? Why didn't you use the Marshall?

[@VertexEffectsInc]

You could have done the WDW method with the Marshall (which is what we did with that amp in the Hungry Like A Wolf example), the only difference between the Marshall "Effects Loop Method" and the "Wet Dry Wet" method is the Soldano has the line out built into it where as we had to add the line out box to the Marshall to add wet effects in post.

[@matthck1]

Is that Duran Duran you’re playing?

[@danielhornbeck6588]

Yes. Hungry Like The Wolf