Who's Afraid of the Experts? | Philosophy Tube ft. Adam Conover

"I think the people in this country have had enough of experts..." 🔮👁️🔮
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BIBLIOGRAPHY
Adam Ruins Everything
Garland E. Allen, “The Role of Experts in Scientific Controversy,” in Scientific Controversies
Pride Chigwedere et al, “Estimating the Lost Benefits of Antiretroviral Drug Use in South Africa,” in JAIDS
Jon Cohen, “The Duesberg Phenomenon” in Science
Michael Dean, “London Perspective: AIDS and the Murdoch Press,” in The Lancet
Steven Epstein, Impure Science: AIDS, Activism, and the Politics of Knowledge
Miranda Fricker, “Rational Authority and Social Power: Towards A Truly Social Epistemology,” in Social Epistemology: Essential Readings
Alvin Goldman, “Experts: Which Ones Should You Trust?” in Philosophy and Phenomenological Research
Michael Gottlieb, “Pneumocystis Pneumonia - Los Angeles,” in Morbidity and Mortality
Rae Goodell, “The Role of the Mass Media in Scientific Controversies,” in Scientific Controversies
John Lauritsen, “First Things First: Some Thoughts on the “AIDS Virus” and AZT,” in The New York Native
Deirdre McCloskey, The Rhetoric of Economics
Tressie McMillan-Cottom, “I Was Pregnant and in Crisis. All the Doctors and Nurses Saw Was an Incompetent Black Woman,” in Time
Montaigner et. al, “Isolation of a T-Lymphotropic Retrovirus from a Patient at Risk for Acquired Immune Deficiency Syndrome (AIDS)” in Science pdfs.semanticscholar.org/7872...
Nicoli Nattrass, “AIDS and the Scientific Governance of Medicine in Post-Apartheid South Africa,” in African Affairs
Report by The British Government, “Modernising the Mental Health Act”
Ruth Pearce, Understanding Trans Health
Steven Shapin, "Science and the Public," in Companion to the History of Modern Science
Kaitlyn Tiffany, "The Women Who Make Conspiracy Theories Beautiful" in The Atlantic www.theatlantic.com/technolog...
H. Tristram Engelhardt Jr. and Arthur L. Caplan, “Patterns of Controversy and Closure: the Interplay of Knowledge, Values, and Political Forces,” in Scientific Controversies
Abigail Zuger, “What Did We Learn From AIDS?” in The New York Times
Original Music By Nina Richards: www.ninarichards.co.uk/
Nina Richards - 'Experts' www.ninarichards.co.uk/philos...
#science #philosophy #AdamRuins

[@PhilosophyTube]

I'm pretty sure this video will get demonetised due to the subject matter, so if you could share it that would help me greatly! 🔮👁️🔮

[@Etnukat]

Glad you made it anyways.

[@joshuaburke7606]

aaaAAHHH OKAY! This will be good!!

[@denislamesch8155]

Can you PLEASE stop premiering your Videos. If I see one of my favorite youtubers has released a new Video, I get excited, just to be immediatly disapointed by having to wait for houres. I might even start doing something else and than missing the Video. This all sucks, why would anyone ever do that. Stop toying with me.

[@denislamesch8155]

Btw did I mention how excited I am.

[@MsSarahJosephine]

@Jill Keogh or that I'm going to cry again. Can't wait.

[@dichotomae]

Since engagement rings are a scam, I will in fact be proposing to my girlfriend with an epic sword

[@SuviTuuliAllan]

"My love for you is like this blade: heavy, cold, piercing, and deadly."

[@pflasterstrips7254]

Cut the wedding cake with it.

[@DarkRelm22]

Yas Queen!! Slay!! Literally!! With Love!!

[@timothyroush7589]

I fully endorse and encourage this action.

[@FranciscoGomez-sl9he]

Holly shit if i ever get married NOW i want a damn sword interchange with my partner, and i want them hanging on the walls of my living room 🖤 thanks for the idea

[@hailleer]

no one: 👋🏻👁🙌🏻 olly: ✋🏻👁🔮👁🤚🏻 🤲🏻👁👐🏻

[@christophersnedeker]

Biblically accurate angel.

[@jk-jl2lo]

"Lay people had to become experts on the disease just so medical experts would listen to them" *the chronic illness community has entered the chat*

[@adrianomaly1760]

I hear you. I wish the doctors would hear us too.

[@DarkMoonDroid]

No shit, right?

[@jospinner1183]

I think medical researchers tend to be disconnected from the human side of their subjects. Maybe it's necessary. I'm not sure how you could connect on an emotional level with people while studying how they're dying. I suspect that one of the coping mechanisms these researchers employ is to keep things objective and maintain a clinical attitude when dealing with patients. It's shitty, but I don't think researchers are deliberately discounting the experiences of patients out of malice. It's how medical school teaches doctors to interact with patients (which is as infrequently as possible). Also, I think medical researchers and doctors get inundated by patients who lack any scientific education whatsoever and have medieval views on how it all works. It becomes easier to just dismiss even educated patients. And due to the way our society worships doctors, there isn't much incentive for doctors to change this attitude.

[@rowangamble436]

The mental health comunity is doing the same and its kind of tiring

[@phastinemoon]

“Medical experts ignore you.” *autistic glaring*

[@dalm1504]

As a transwoman, the part about secondary experts really rung true. In my city's trans community, there's a little bit of dark humour about how every trans person needs to learn how to lie to doctors, because the gender clinic looks for a specific narrative that isn't true to some people's lived experiences and will refuse treatment unless they fit with that narrative. Moreover, a lot of gender clinicians don't... actually know what they're doing that well. What this leads to is a thing where many of the trans people in our community research and understand the endocrinology involved in transition more than some of the gender clinicians who will send you to a professional endocrinologist, meaning that there is a lot of self-prescription until the 2-year wait to get actual treatment goes through. This saves lives. A local community group for trans people even splashed out for an actual laser hair removal machine and the training to use it. We would like to be able to trust experts, but many of them don't have our best interests at heart. The answer, in my opinion, is proper pedagogy. A two-way street. Experts learning from the communities they serve, rather than prescribing. Because at the end of the day, by learning how to operate a laser machine, by learning how to fiddle with our own endocrine systems like some cyberpunk biohacker... Well, that just makes /us/ another kind of expert. When knowledge flows without heirarchy, we are no longer shackled by the fear of experts.

[@roseblack1301]

It's exactly that situation why I am so glad whenever I see a trans person in the field or someone that has a good reputation among trans people because it can be hard to find someone who knows.

[@archiealexandre828]

Community is fucking everything and you are living proof of that! ✊🏻

[@bifurioussiren]

beautifully said, thank you

[@jaygreene2257]

I 100% agree. As an example-I went for a consultation for hysterectomy (I'm trans masculine, taking testosterone). The gynecologist I spoke to talked about everything in terms of "some women choose this option..." or "women often need X weeks off of work to recover"....it was awful. She had no vocabulary to talk about the issues I cared about as a transmasculine person. She didn't know, for example, that certain procedures could limit future bottom surgery choices if I were to have external surgeries in the future. I learned much more about the process by talking to other transmasculine people who had had a hysterectomy online (mostly on the r/ftm subreddit and the r/nonbinary subreddits) than I did with a board-certified gynecologist. (I also see an endocrinologist for hormone therapy and a general practicioner.)

[@dalm1504]

@Ian Corral Ian this is an experience almost every trans person goes through. This is the norm. Everyone i know has had to deal with gatekeepers who think they know better than us when we have LIVED this. Quit manspleaining about something youll never experience firsthand.

[@galgacus832]

The mild disbelief with which he says “in the United States, people still pay for health care” is amazing.

[@katattack907]

**sobs**

[@isabelle5547]

im in the us and also in mild disbelief

[@ChristopherCraven]

I didn't really hear that tone. I completely agree with the statement and how insane it is, but I really didn't pick up on the tone you said. Sorry for saying something completely unneccessary.

[@galgacus832]

Christopher Craven I’m perfectly willing to consider that I may be reading that tone into what he said. Because U.S. health care is a Lovecraftian nightmare which in my mind seems excellently matched to polished, ever so slightly wry English intonation for which to describe it with.

[@adamjozsa3980]

People in his country pay for health care, too.

[@ThatOneIrishFurry]

South Africa in the 1990s: if we stop testing HIV will go away *HIV did not go away* America in 2020: if we stop testing for COVID-19 it will go away

[@Quintinohthree]

@Albert Whisker Exactly the point being made I think.

[@socialismandrevolution8299]

Did South Africa do this in the 80s as well? Mbeki was president from 1999-2009.

[@orangesandsalt2161]

Socialism and Revolution yep, not the 80s. Many exiles (like Chris Hani) coming back into SA from 1990 onwards tried to warn the government about the coming crisis but it was largely ignored. But you’re right, it’s the Mbeki era that was truly disastrous and disgusting in its approach to the virus.

[@caseyleenb]

wait what? is that something that actually happened?

[@ThatOneIrishFurry]

@@socialismandrevolution8299 oh I must have misheard the video

[@adrianomaly1760]

I’d argue that one of the parallels between the AIDS response and the COVID response was the way the earliest victims were treated: gay men in comparison to the old, infirm, or disabled. So many people straight up didn’t care about Covid initially because they thought “it won’t affect me.” And then it did. Minorities shouldn’t have to suffer loudly only to have their screams muted by those of their oppressors.

[@curtmacquarrie]

not that the elderly don't deserve life every bit at much as everyone else but I don't think this is an apt comparison. The elderly and the infirm WILL always be the worst affected by disease and while some people are hand waving away grandmas life in a really disgusting way, I think more often its people saying something along the lines of "well, the flu kills people too". Their argument is that its acceptable for some people to die for the country/economy to continue, and while that is super callous and in this case is deeply mistaken and wrong, by the same token we DO allow this kind of calculus every day. You could reduce speed limits and say thousands of lives but we are comfortable allowing a certain amount of death for the convenience of getting around a bit quicker. You could mandate vaccination and save thousands of lives but generally its seen as a better option to allow most people who are sensible to voluntarily vaccinate rather than force it, again we are comfortable allowing a certain amount of death for a certain amount of freedom.

[@Eric-sy1xu]

Bro that's such an unfounded and bold assertion of "people didn't care about COVID because it didn't affect them" that it's effectively brazen. In January & February, with little help from the Chinese government (no ill will suggested), we had frankly no fucking clue about how it infected people and how it killed people, which demographics were more vulnerable and which were less vulnerable. Trying to pin "WE" to this pandemic at the start, as a result, is frankly a bunch of horse cock. We didn't know Shit about this virus beyond the fact that it was a Coronavirus (which often causes a common cold) and that it caused pretty major (potentially lethal) inflamation in the lungs. Lockdown on 23 March? Doesn't fucking matter what you think, bro, you're staying at home. Federal systems have my sympathy in this regard for it's often delegated outward, but the suggestion that We as a global community knew more than we did at the time is frankly a bunch of Bollocks. Gazing back in hindsight is all well and good but you're gazing through rose-tinted glasses by the looks of it, bud.

[@jougjimmadome]

@@curtmacquarrie you discuss this as if the elderly were the only group being discussed-- disabled people who had many years, even decades of healthy lives ahead of them were needlessly sacrificed because society has already deemed their deaths "acceptable"

[@mksabourinable]

Amazing. Finally get a comment actually acknowledging the way the disabled were treated as disposable, and a reply STILL refuses to acknowledge it. Guess what asshole. I'm high risk bc of my asthma. My 16yo cousin is bc of his type 1 diabetes. Just as some even minor examples. We aren't near death. We have lives ahead of us. Yet we're still treated as disposable. But even those more severely affected... HUMAN LIFE IS NOT FUCKING DISPOSABLE.

[@curtmacquarrie]

@@mksabourinable are you talking about my comment? If so you've grossly misread what I've said.

[@rini6]

I’m old. I remember the AIDS crisis. I was a resident physician in the nineties and treated so many people who were dying and I remember the Duesenberg misinformation that caused so much harm. Now, I’m treating asthma patients today and I see the same denialism regarding COVID-19. It’s just sad. Thanks for this. (BTW, it is ridiculous and incredible that people have to pay for health care in this country. We desperately need a nationalized healthcare system. Doubt it will happen tho)

[@willofiron26]

Trying to but well...its a big issue/change so conservatives are not for it.

[@rini6]

Ian Will And big insurance has purposefully put their misinformation out there to dissuade them.

[@jeanf6295]

@@rini6 it is not only misinformation though, nationalized healthcare supposes that the government work for and represent the people, I am not so sure this applies to the Trump administration. You need some deep electoral reforms too, because nationalized healthcare and plutocracy don't go well together.

[@strawbebbiejam]

thank you for your work in helping so many people!!!

[@rini6]

jean f I agree.

[@AndrewTaylorPhD]

Olly's wearing his facemask wrong.

[@nilesbutler8638]

Well, one could question the use of that mask. True, millions wear one nowadays because of corona - but here Ollie clearly wishes not to be identified.

[@kerstodeive]

the blindfold was about "does anyone really know anything or are we all flying blind" or something to that effect; it's portraying the kind of people who know nothing and assume that everyone else also knows nothing and people who call themselves experts are just lying for big money. it also makes him look weirdly like the Greek goddess of justice (aka justice is blind), because she also wears a blindfold, only in her case it's supposed to show that she's not biased

[@eve36368]

It's too thin to even be a facemask, so just as well

[@nrose1271]

kerstodeive you must be fun at parties

[@augfairweather4530]

this gave me a good laugh

[@s.osullivan1193]

I’m never going to get over the irony of a Tory saying the UK has had enough of elitism

[@werewolf4358]

*I'm* never going to get over the irony of that host saying "Elitist?! Elitist?! The Lord High Chancellor!" as if that was supposed to make me think of anything other than some kind of Bond Villain or something. I don't agree with Boris or anything, but that was terrible optics.

[@TheStarBlack]

The Tories have discovered the secret to everlasting power: create a narrative that swaps the establishment with the opposition in the public eye. "We didn't cause the problem, the opposition did".

[@beancheesedip8337]

@@TheStarBlack that seems like a conservatism thing in general, as we have the same issue in the US. When Obama was president, he was constantly blamed for the economy's failure and derided endlessly for not immediately bringing the economy back up (despite the fact that no matter what policy a president enacts, it takes a while before the general populace to actually notice its effects, sometimes even several years), ignoring that it was actually G.W. Bush that was president at the start of the downturn. Now, conservatives are hailing Trump for the "good" economy, which has again hit a crisis with the pandemic (which is blamed on Democrats because of course), ignoring the fact that the unemployment rate had been steadily dropping down to, I believe, 4.5% at the end of the Obama regime. Essentially, Trump's been riding high off the work Obama had done, only really taking actions that helped Wall Street, and he's been hailed as a godsend despite impugning Obama for his "failures" despite the fact that he became president *after* the recession started.

[@FinnA9X]

@@TheStarBlack It's how they managed to win an election by saying "Everything's fucked, right? Let us fix it", and just sort of skipping over who's been in charge for the last 10 years.

[@Qjimbo]

That's just one of many examples of how Conservatives get public support by convincing you they're on your team, your side.

[@tamikras9927]

Kudos to Abby for doing the whole video with her eyes covered. Even attempting an enterprise like that would have driven me insane.

[@appleslover]

The year is 2022. Britain has been out of the European Union for only 2 years and already it is flourishing. Within days of gaining its financial independence, Welsh and Scottish Nationalism died; the union has never been stronger. Ireland rejoined in a second act of union. The countries of the Commonwealth flocked to be taken back as crown dominions and colonies, begging for British rule once again. India declares Queen Elizabeth II Empress. Even the original 13 colonies of North America forgo their silly republic and swear loyalty to the Queen, who has been reborn as a gorgeous youthful Goddess with the power to restore Churchill to life. One pound is now worth over 200 dollars. France admits we were better all along. Angela Merkel ends herself as her plan to form the fourth Reich and displace the white populations of Europe is brought low. Rule Britannia the world cries out... Britannia rules the world... Nigel Farage awakes; his brow wet and his plaid pyjamas slightly sticky...

[@thesewinggeekmiri9029]

oh my god... XD you had me going in the first half, not gonna lie this was so funny I just had to read it out loud, doing voices I love this. I want it printed on a poster, or typed up and slapped onto someone's tumblr page as a header however you forgot the bit where everyone agrees that the Brits were correct all along and everyone really should be drinking tea, it truly is the most superior caffeinated beverage. Oh and the Americans admit that calling a fortnight "two weeks" was actually just a joke created centuries ago that everyone forgot to stop, and then they dig deep into their wallets and finally *finally* reimburse England for all that tea they wasted in the Boston harbor.

[@appleslover]

@@thesewinggeekmiri9029 xd

[@DinosaurSatan]

I want to give ups, but the number of ups is currently perfect.

[@appleslover]

@@DinosaurSatan now it isn't

[@ana.alliterative]

There are two islands in Papua New Guinea named "New Britain" and "New Ireland".

[@Connie_cpu]

AIDS Patients becoming lay experts on AIDS research feels strongly echoed today with how many trans people basically become lay experts on endocrinology. Because so many doctors are far less informed on HRT than they should be, many of us have to do all the research ourselves so we can convince our doctors what they should actually be doing, and pushing forward on experimental hormone regimes

[@zealferal]

This! There's a lot coming out right now about trans mascs being pushed into unnecessary hysterectomies because of bad science and old hat ideas about testosterone and cancer. Intersex people have to become experts on their own variations, too.

[@emjenkins464]

Most women with chronic illnesses have also become lay experts in their conditions and medications. I've run (basically) scientific tests on my own body to identify flare triggers/allergies in foods and topical products, as no one tells you that you can develop allergies from immune disorders and bad medication reactions. (It's almost like very mild mast cell, as it's been one every 2-3 months...)

[@ibn_klingschor]

I thank all my trans friends for teaching us cis-ters about biology

[@genericname8727]

The disability rights movement commonly uses the phrase “nothing about us without us” because the experts had a history of doing or saying things “for disabled people” that disabled people didn’t actually want or that didn’t actually take into account the thoughts, feelings, and lived experiences of disabled people. There are common treatments for autistic children today that autistic adults are trying to warn are just torture, yet still many experts don’t want to hear it because what would autistic people know about their own experiences compared to these doctors, who read some articles on the topic by other non-autistic people and therefore know all about being autistic? Nothing about us without us. We know our experiences best, and our experiences should be taken seriously.

[@eetumiettinen1047]

@Waffle Stack I think what is bad is when people are forced to do it. It isn't inherently bad, or unhealthy, but when you are forced to it it raises a lot of alarm and ethical concern, y'know

[@poprocks6576]

Adam normal house Olly a huge glitter curtain Me: yeah that’s normal

[@grapebuilding]

"Why is Adam's house so weird?"

[@Z10ZeeTen]

This is so close to being a haiku

[@MemTMCR]

I didn't even notice-

[@ChocoDrum03]

I'm commenting after seeing the last video. Damn, Abigail is such a great actress. Had no idea when I watched these.

[@CamelliaAoi]

Funnily enough, this specific video actually made me wonder if she was trans... But I didn't want to speculate so I just stopped thinking about it. UNTIL NOW 😆

[@FullMetalPanicNL]

@@CamelliaAoi I was about the comment something similar. Abigail gave us a tip of the hat in this and a few other videos. :) Glad she was able to show us her true self "officially" now. ^_^

[@susanne5803]

I must admit that around this time or a bit later I unsubscribed because Abigail gave me the feeling of the "uncanny valley". I still got recommended her videos because I had watched them and liked them. So I got last weeks notification. When she started speaking in that Morpheus' seat things felt right. So I resubscribed.

[@ellenorbjornsdottir1166]

@@CamelliaAoi How?

[@cosmicdonkey3473]

You can subtly hear her voice, much softer, which is lovely. And I hope it's not rude to say, but in her coming out video, Abigail said she wore baggier clothes to cover her chest - in the scenes where she's talking to Adam, you can see she doesn't have a flat chest! :)

[@emmac4805]

True story: I didn’t circumcise my baby because of Adam Ruins Everything

[@Maseiken]

You did it for the Vine, then. 😐

[@JPG.01]

No matter the reason, you did the right thing.

[@allyli1718]

Emma C thank you

[@Loki-pz1uk]

I wish I had known more about it before my son was born because the doctors and nurses really pushed it 😐

[@eruno_]

I was surprised to learn that Americans do that, when I grew up it was commonly known as specifically Jewish thing

[@CouncilofGeeks]

“Better how?” That was brilliant. That’s the sort of thing so many interviewers would just pass over and take it as read.

[@ERosa1991]

OMG hiiii You're right, and his elaboration on that was much better than just moving on to the next topic. In fact, it made me think about time. Whether something happened a generation before we were born or a thousand years ago makes little difference to how we see the world in our own lifetime. We learn the new normal (which seems to be the only normal to us) and roll with it. And it can cut both ways: young people, once indoctrinated, tend to believe that "things have always been this way"; but on the other hand, young people are more open to new ideas and to changing their minds. Love your channel Love your videos, particularly the ones about queer topics (and She-Ra) Loved your video about Chadwick Boseman too Stay safe

[@CouncilofGeeks]

Alice Riddle Thank you so much! And yeah time and generations can make things seems ancient. I mean as far as my kid is concerned the world before the Internet might as well be WWII. It’s all equally old in her perspective, and equally as traditional.

[@susannarita4259]

Fancy finding you here! That question had me shook too - the immediacy of that type of questioning assumptions shows why Olly is so good at what he does

[@etamr60]

But he doesn't tell why does he? Olly touches on it later, how better stories are ones that fits our worldview. Here the truer engagement ring story fits his narrative (that I share) about the power private interests (the profit motive really) hold on society, changing material and symbolic reality. Shame they don't go that far, I think showing the audience that you "think against yourself" engages it even more.

[@CouncilofGeeks]

Mikaela Myer thats so awesome that I actually directed you here! And it’s wonderful to know my visibility helps some people.

[@CassReidIsSomeone]

Between this and Lindsay Ellis's "Look Pretty and Do As Little As Possible" it's time to dive into historic repeats for great discomfort and calls to action.

[@notanniex565]

If you are looking for a good book about the AIDS pandemic, I recommend Patient zero and the making of the AIDS epidemic by Richard A. McKay. It is both about the Aids epidemic especially in the early stages and Geatan Dugas, the man who was wrongfully identified as patient zero and who was vilified in the media and in the book And the Band plays on for his many partners and spreading the disease in North-America. I found it a very interesting reaf and I learned a lot from it.

[@CassReidIsSomeone]

@@notanniex565 yes omg thank you! I need some nonfiction

[@starpasta]

Omg, I was thinking about Lindsay Ellis' video as well!

[@nihilism1652]

Hi! I'm a philosophy major from Pakistan, which isn't the greatest place to be studying philosophy because of the lack of opportunities and much more significantly lower quality of education But, (unlike my peers, who ultimately had to settle for the subject), I've been privileged enough to have chosen this field because I'm passionate about it. Although I'm starting my last year of undergrad I've been studying philosophy for four years now. During this time I've tried to find teachers or scholars of philosophy whom I could learn from but it's been difficult given the elitism shrouding the subject, which is something you're covered so nicely in this video. I just wanted to thank you for all your hard work. Thank you for making the essence of philosophy accessible to everyone. You know I watched the one on logic immediately even though I'd been studying logic all year and was so sick of it 😂 I'm really grateful that at this point in my education, there is someone from the same field I can look up to. Just wanted to appreciate all your efforts. Thank you for keeping philosophy alive in this time of misinformation and chaos. I'll stop now 😅

[@samisbiggaytm8763]

I appreciate your comment, and found it an interesting read. Being in a restrictive place can affect philosophy, too. Like Olly says in his video Queer✨ "Who is in charge dictates what kinds of questions can be asked."

[@jeliii7900]

oh em gee!!! hello there, fellow pakistani and philosphytube watcher!!! and also a pakistani whos interested in taking philosophy (though im way far from being at uni level, i am but a humble o levels failer) its so great to see this comment it immediately lifted my mood - hope that things go well for u

[@nihilism1652]

@@jeliii7900 o levels is a nightmare and once you get past it, things get a whole lot easier, even if you're doing a levels ahead 😂 especially if you leave the institution you've been studying in for so long. Really happy to know that I could help in some way! Everything seems difficult at the time you're in rn, but it gets easier to understand what you truly want to do once it's over, so I hope you'll be able to choose your academic path as you want!~ honestly that's all that matters

[@instantgratification3925]

Similar situation here.

[@gmc5618]

Good luck with your studies ❤️

[@amberlyveil8856]

Now we just need Abby to appear on Adam Ruins Philosophy to complete the collab circle

[@mel-burnes]

unfortunally for business reasins adam's show got cancelled by the network ):

[@lexiedamoose5551]

"Adam is ruined by everything" sounds like an awful rule 34 porno.

[@StellarStina]

10/10 would watch

[@DeanLawrence_ftw]

Adam is ruined by big pork ;-)

[@BlueRabbitKing]

LMAO NOOOOO

[@toyotaprius79]

But it's perfect for American media digest, is it not?

[@jessthehuman]

Well, I was just ruined by this comment. So sure, get rekt, Adam.

[@belif2000]

ah, yes, the guy who mixes theatre and philosophy and the guy who ruins everything, a match made in heaven

[@macabrecitrus2127]

Hot tbh

[@yopassthefuckinsalt922]

Yeah, but watch out: you shouldn't play with matches ; )

[@liam.deshuis]

drunk theatre kids at uni parties did it first just saying

[@belif2000]

@@liam.deshuis so true

[@bedobur]

Why are you a Turk?

[@sictoabu9611]

"Lightness of wallet," is my new favourite euphemism.

[@markz2666]

Hearing her talk in these last few videos you can really, REALLY hear how much she's putting on the lower voice. So happy she doesn't have to play a character anymore!

[@Praxis4RageBaiting]

at this point in breadtube if you're not being called a cuck by somebody you're doing it wrong

[@timothymclean]

To be fair, you might also just be a small creator who nobody's noticed yet. You need a certain level of notoriety before the "cuck" frequency can be used to adequately estimate your... ...um... SJW Factor? What are we measuring again?

[@spinakker14]

I love the fact the CuckPhilosophy intentionally chose its name to get ahead of it and be done with it

[@communistpropagandist4608]

I get called a cuck all the time, even by people close to me like my wife's boyfriend.

[@TheSOHO92]

@@communistpropagandist4608 I appreciate you.

[@communistpropagandist4608]

@@TheSOHO92 I appreciate you too!

[@spacegay9309]

From the same creators of "Philosophize me daddy", comes... "RUIN ME DADDY"

[@maggiescarlet]

He should work with Kat "Radicalize me daddy" Blaque next 😂

[@defensivekobra3873]

to quote the great wordsmith jontron "i have several questions"

[@ChestersonJack]

maggie's farm Have you seen her video on left tube? It’s really good

[@maggiescarlet]

@@ChestersonJack I watch em allll boo the true tea is so damn hot 🥵 that one was particularly good though, the production value and intellectualism of a lot of left tube is great but nothing compares to getting LGBTQIA+ and poc's stories first hand!!

[@LittleBitVic]

What drove me towards studying STEM was the realization that, as a female patient with an extensive history of health issues since puberty, every medical specialist I've seen couldn't decisively diagnose anything because every potential diagnostic method had to be discussed with this asterisk: studies for this test/diagnosis/treatment have not included any/enough female subjects in their observations. Only the symptoms of biological males are known with certainty.

[@MedlifeCrisis]

Tremendous video

[@garth2356]

This is one of those rare instances when a verified channel (a great one at that!) doesn't get enough likes.

[@user-vq2de7lj3w]

I love you even more now

[@deepstariaenigmatica2601]

love your videos

[@1a2b3c4d_]

Woahhhhhh didn’t expect to see you here!

[@Desimere]

@@garth2356 I like the channel, but not the comment. I feel neutral about the comment.

[@goshdarnspiffy]

The overwhelming number of parallels between the AIDS crisis and now were something I genuinely didn't know about. Thanks for another solid video, man :)

[@mathieuleader8601]

my nan believed you could get Aids from a toilet seat a common misconception at the time

[@hiruyabebaw807]

hey no spoilers

[@paulmartin591]

That’s true Reagan’s inaction and dismissal of the AIDS epidemic was a blueprint for the disaster we see today. Unfortunately the personality cult is even stronger with Trump. Going to be hard to break the spell.

[@badasunicorn6870]

Have you already seen it?

[@NaumRusomarov]

I've been bitching about this since the pandemic started. I think some people have started almost avoiding me because they find the parallels between these two cases not really important in 2020 and somewhat unpleasant to think about. :-|

[@EroticInferno]

“It’s the same people doing the same shit and we haven’t learned” You sounded like hbomberguy 😂😂

[@thatchapthere]

And the way he said "The money" sounded just like thoughtslime

[@gm25140]

@@thatchapthere Right? Thought it was just my brain jumping to that, having been sick at home and having spend my time binging on thoughtslime videos😇😅

[@thatchapthere]

@@gm25140 Hehe I'm not the only one who thought that then :)

[@GreaterSeraph]

@@gm25140 yo! Me too! ❤

[@DannyRyanGuitar]

I found Philosophy Tube over the last year, and specifically this video came at a time when I needed it. I was diagnosed with HIV in late march of last year, and this video was pivotal in helping me learn more about the history behind my condition and pointing me towards more info that further helped me educate myself. So, thank you.

[@wickjezek1101]

I hope your viral load is undetectable and you have access to and the resources to get the medicine you need. I hope you feel well and are living your best life. ❤️

[@corinnelucy8165]

Man, when this came out I thought of that episode about bisexual fashion and I was like "yep, rocking it". Now it's like oh hi Abigail, cool crystal ball sis

[@Aima952]

I've only been following the channel for a few weeks now (I'm working through the back catalogue pretty randomly) and the time line of this one really confused me (was it pre/post coming out?) right up until Adam used male pronouns at the end... Femme characters are pretty common but this is the oldest video I've seen where my brain is happy with the idea of using she/her pronouns for Abigail at all times (without me putting any effort in).

[@neuralmute]

I just watched this video from my non-binary perspective, and I kept being distracted by how mid-transition Abigail is just beautiful androgynous GOALS!

[@Revelwoodie]

The biggest pet peeve I have when it comes to myths that needs to be debunked is the hymen. But I'm realizing "Adam ruins the hymen" might be a bad video title.

[@annieabsorbsaqua5793]

The show already did that, but it wasn't Adam giving the facts about it.

[@celesterobinson426]

An Adam Ruins Everything PornHub exclusive

[@nathanielquiet8636]

Adam's 'sister' did this in a segment I'm sure ☺

[@rebekahrhodes9512]

@@nathanielquiet8636 actually it was Emily Axford's character on the show who debunked the hymen.

[@nathanielquiet8636]

@@rebekahrhodes9512 Yeah, she plays a friend, not Adam's sister as I had previously thought. 😳

[@LimeyLassen]

As the saying goes, "You can't reason someone out of something if they didn't reason themselves into it."

[@astaiannymph]

This is untrue. It may be difficult, but it does happen.

[@maxkemper1598]

That's a great saying.

[@TheBlarggle]

@@maxkemper1598 It's all it is... a saying. It's not true at all.

[@theocean1973]

Yes and no. When it comes to, for example, de-radicalizing alt-righters or QAnon people, there are some people who can be persuaded to leave, but most stay stuck in their ways. Debate isn’t useless, but it’s insufficient to mitigate the harms caused by horrible batshit beliefs.

[@thomascocks9136]

Yes that's the people Adam manages to convince. People that reasoned their way into false conclusions by being presented falsehoods, paartial facts or flawed logic. They still care about the truth and reason, but they just got misinformed I'm very skeptical anyone was reasoned into qanon. Very little resembling an argument or evidence is ever presented. Its like he said "its more of a vibe"

[@derekhasabrain]

Okay, Abigail, you're absolutely incredible. The props, the theatrics, the editing. You're an incredible actress, director, producer, writer, all of it. The addition of your blindfold, crystal ball, and the two eyes on your hands really set the theme for the whole episode. Especially when you used them to apply theatrics when you said "double-blind tests" and flip both of the eyes backwards... I'm a 21-year-old genderfluid freshman student in a very conservative state in the U.S., and I hear things like this every day. But following your channel, and also taking an introductory philosophy course, has really been molding and altering the way I think about things, and I LOVE it. I am so grateful for everything you do, and I genuinely aspire to be like you. Now I just need to get into acting like I've wanted to do since I was a kid, and I might start my own channel!

[@derekhasabrain]

I ALSO JUST REALIZED YOU MADE THE CREDITS MUSIC YOURSELF, HOLY SHIT I've been writing music (as a hobby, I haven't released any of it cause it sucks) for about 8 years now and I still can't do as good as that!! You're incredible.

[@melwasnevergivenaname]

​@@derekhasabrain just looked at your channel to see if youve done videos yet, I appreciate your public playlists! I'll be listening to "incredible music" Also wanted to stand in support of you as a fellow American in a red state that is trying desperately to open the minds of my family and their friends. I hope you've found a safe tribe and are doing well

[@derekhasabrain]

@@melwasnevergivenaname wow, things have changed a lot since I posted this comment! Thank you so much, that means a lot to me. You might not be impressed with that playlist, I don’t add to it very often and I don’t usually listen to music on KZbin 😅 hope you enjoy anyway!

[@kevinbissinger]

She's an actor. It's not a gendered term. You didn't call her a directress producress or writress.

[@mjegzev]

Hearing the US government in the 80s getting called "the Reagan regime" was oddly satisfying, not gonna lie

[@AGuyWithAChannel]

Me: "Who's Adam Conover?" Video: "For those of in my audience who aren't familair with you already, would you introduce yourself?" College Humour alumnus Adam Conover: "Hi." Former College Humour addict, me: "YOU!"

[@ellagage1256]

Best comment here 😂

[@mv4855]

You should get back back on that train. Brenan single handed brought they back to life. :)

[@lorenzonapoletano5789]

This was so me

[@totorod]

Maria Vianna is Brenan the “here’s some more... news?” Guy?

[@mv4855]

@@totorod yes, he is amazing! He has a dnd show on dropout (they also release episodes on KZbin) called dimension 20 and it's the best thing I have watched in a loooong time. I mean it. Even if you don't like dnd or never looked into it, do watch it. It's the perfect mix of comedy, mystery, and narrative. What a fucking storyteller he is.

[@theocean1973]

One of Olly’s videos: “Adam Conover understands the truth. Good lookin’ bloke too!” One of Adam’s videos: “You know who would make a bad firefighter? AN ARSONIST.” I knew we’d get a crossover episode eventually!

[@johnrushton5293]

Pikaia Gracilens what Adam video is that from

[@ArloMathis]

Yeah, I'm interested as well.

[@blackarrow1259]

@@johnrushton5293 the one on billionaires and their charities

[@8Rincewind]

What episode was the arsonist quote from?

[@Theology.101]

8Rincewind billionaires and their Charities for Adam Steve Bannon for Olly’s Arsonist

[@overworkedcna412]

"The US still charges people for healthcare,..." *ouch i felt that*

[@chocolatepiano7366]

So "Adam Ruins Everything" is like...Horrible Histories for Americans?

[@brain_apostrophe_t]

A little actually

[@carysbebard3690]

I think Horrible Science (the books) would be a clearer equivalent

[@te1327]

Basically, you should check it out. Sometimes the humour is slightly cringy but it's informative all in the same

[@michaelhird432]

Yes but more modern and more teen oriented.

[@ChestersonJack]

And it started as a web show made by CollegeHumor (or I suppose, CollegrHumour to you) so it’s still got that webshow feel, you know?

[@RoseThePhoenix]

"Patients sometimes get dealt with like they don't know their own symptoms." Yeah... the average time it takes an American woman to be diagnosed with endometriosis is like eight years. Wonder why.

[@fjr4205]

Came here to say this, thank you for getting to it first. Even more galling is the fact that if you seek treatment related to fertility issues, you get a resolution much sooner than those of us who are just going in begging for help with pain (particularly if it's pain related to intercourse).

[@grennoin3108]

@@fjr4205 I have heard from some that if you mention that the pain makes it harder to please your husband, the doctors start to get working again. Plus your chances as a woman to get sterilized if you want to drastically increase when your husband states he does not want children, your opinion matters less (at least in Germany).

[@Madhatter1781]

Yup, and it's worse for women of color. My girlfriend suffers greatly from what is very, very clearly endo, and the mother fuckers just straight up tell her they're not going to treat her "because it's rare." Like... First of all, it looks more rare than it is because doctors NEVER diagnose it when it's obvious as shit, second of all, we don't not treat diseases because they're "rare." You don't not treat someone because they somehow caught Dengue Fever in rural Canada, you just... Treat them? I was fucking livid that day, especially after learning there's just about dick all we can do about it.

[@nerdyiam]

It's because they're a few people who will lie to obtain prescriptions to sell on the streets at a profit. As a doctor you can't actually tell who's lying and who isn't, it's shitty but it makes sense.

[@Madhatter1781]

@@nerdyiam I disagree that it makes sense, because even if what you're saying is true on a wide scale, people shouldn't have to suffer because of those pricks.

[@jaggedbee]

I'm pretty sure that blindfold gives him +5 to all pyromancies.

[@flaming6]

Seeing as how he's using OTO/Thelema visual references, and considering, y'know, everything we know about Olly's *well stocked* bookshelf, I think it more likely that he would get the +5 to bibliomancy. Possibly a +2 to geomancy from the lingering Ceasar vibes.

[@hotshot590]

I thought the blindfold upped your dark sorcery damage? \[T]/

[@aks799]

Heidi Hickman they-them uhhh was there a bookshelf reference in there that i was supposed to get?

[@rafaelalmada723]

The arsonist liked this comment

[@flaming6]

@@aks799 Nah, but he used to let people buy him books and then suddenly his videos were like "Dear god, please stop buying me books!" And in all of the backgrounds of the old videos, he would always have a bookshelf with like, ten books related to the topic on it ... and he's got a lot of videos.

[@samhughes2025]

It's so easy to see Abigail coming back here now, I remember loving her androgynous style before she came out publicly,🥚moment.

[@Kathrin_yt]

''This little piggies going to the market, the market place of ideas'' made me laugh a lot :D Great video as always!

[@OerythiaDeQuatrefages]

Well these pigs are real, and they are betting on social impact markets, debt commodities, development impact bonds, reset the free market with the aim of managing misery, spread commodification in all fields, promote surveillance capitalism, all of that and more toxic green deals, leading you to your open air virtual jail. So stay home, fake the laugh, hide your smile and watch reductionist liberal videos.

[@danopticon]

I’m old enough to recall when AIDS was not yet called AIDS, and when HIV was not yet called HIV, and some poor grade school kid, who’d gotten sick from a blood transfusion, was sued and prevented from going to school by other parents for fear that he’d “infect other kids through sharing a water fountain…” and PLENTY of parents, who saw themselves as staunch progressives, were totally a-o.k. with that, with victimizing some kid. And at my high school, two supposedly-left-leaning parents maliciously started a rumor about some poor kid - literally poor, he and his separated mom had just moved here from Latin America, had no money, and the kid slept on a pull-our sofa in the living room of the otherwise unfurnished one-bedroom apartment they could barely afford - that he had AIDS… just because he was rail-thin…! and tried to get other parents to shun him. That one still infuriates me, two college professors knowingly starting a false rumor about some impoverished kid… seemingly out of boredom, or for fun. Lots of hypocrisies were exposed by the AIDS crisis, and by the Reagan ‘80s generally. 😡

[@naomistarlight6178]

Oh yeah, I read about that kid in a biography of Elton John because he actually promoted the idea that the kid wasn't a threat to the other kids. IIRC he had the kid on TV and made a point of showing he wasn't dangerous to shake hands with? A lot of smart, educated progressives are still raised in wealth privilege and have this 'not in my backyard' attitude. There are still 'progressive' people who will vote against low-income housing being zoned in their neighborhoods. A lot of people support one thing as an abstract concept and another in their own lives. It makes me think of all the right-wing Christian women who will protest at abortion clinics, get an abortion at those same clinics, and then go back to the protesting.

[@roryokane5907]

Noemi Starlight Princess Diana made waves by doing the same sort of thing. Say what you like about the Royals, she at least appeared to give a damn.

[@fruitygarlic3601]

@@roryokane5907 As someone who has been keeping up with royalty lately (mostly because the Meghan Markle abuse fascinates the bullied kid in me), I can tell you that Diana was never a real part of the royal family. She was the closest thing the Windsors had to a good person.

[@jasonblazgk9973]

Was this before the route of transmission was well understood? It's easy to have 20/20 in hindsight, but with a new disease that has been established as extremely deadly then perhaps it is wise to protect those other kids before the facts are known? If this occured after the science was well understood, then yes, that is quite sad.

[@danopticon]

@Jason Blazgk - I believe it was after transmission was understood, but admittedly quite soon after. So the level of knowledge was high enough that we all wondered “Do these parents really think a grade school kid is sharing needles and having unprotected sex?” but also early enough that one gay comedian’s big punchline was still “The easy part was telling my parents I had AIDS… the hard part was coming out to them as Haitian!” (At one point HIV/AIDS was referred to as the 4H disease - the four groups it was thought to affect most were heroin users, hemophiliacs, homosexuals, and Haitians.) I guess my larger point is, this was when my early-adolescent self started to notice there were people who only play-acted at progressivism, and only so long as it had no material effect on their own lives. So certainly the NIMBY types, and the people who were “slumming it” with my crowd because it’s where the fun and the sex and the adventure were, but who turned crypto-Republican the moment anything became difficult, or all these snots online today shouting “I won’t vote for Biden!” because a Trump victory won’t affect them one bit, so they can play-act progressivism all they want, but you know the moment their trust funds are threatened by anything they’ll come out in favor of crypto-fascism hard… because shouting nonsense is easy, while long-term calculated and concerted action in the real world is not. My childhood was shaped by sincere people whose words and actions were very much in sync, or who spoke little and let their actions do the talking, so the whole “aesthetics of leaning left, coupled with unthinking and/or reactionary praxis” phenomenon was one I surprisingly only became aware of in my early teens. Today it’s easier to shrug off - if you can’t educate someone, what else can you do but move on? - but at the time, people saying all the “right” things but, in their own immediate material reality, acting in ways that lacked compassion, that lacked humanity, that were materialistic, or opportunistic, or had the practical effect of setting causes back hundreds of years… it was quite a lesson to learn. I think in large measure you can blame the culture of the USA. I grew up elsewhere, and in most of the world there’s a greater spirit of compassion and cooperation. But the USA really drills into people from the day they’re born that everything’s a competition, that it’s you against the world, that your comfort means everything, that your dumb opinion is as important as anyone else’s demonstrable fact… and wavering from that self-centered stance even for a moment is seen as weakness. I still think about that grade school kid at least once every couple of days. It was at least another 15 years before HIV treatment advanced significantly, and even then the cost of treatment remained out of most people’s reach for another decade… arguably it’s still out of most people’s reach today. So in all likelihood that kid is dead. Hopefully he at least had some friends before he died.

[@alexandrakeyser4550]

"the year 1981" I was SHOOK cus DAMN that was well framed to sound like 2020. "history doesnt repeat itself, but it often rhymes" -mark twain (i think)

[@Lildoc911]

Spanish flu rings a bell.

[@IrisCarterSchafer]

I definitely thought he was talking about 2020 before he said the year. And then I had to remember all over again that denying an illness isn’t new at all.

[@jellybean4]

Ask A Mortician's recent video on Plague in San Francisco is also eerily similar to 2020, with how people and politicians reacted.

[@kensurrency2564]

and sometimes, history DOES repeat itself.

[@thehuman2cs715]

It's like poetry sort of it rhymes

[@momorilee5642]

19:22 Abigail is like yeah yes that is totally true me: i wonder if this nodding in agreement with Adam’s statement is going to seem humorous to me in five months me five months after this was posted: ABI OMG

[@Merlincat007]

Yeah it does seem like she strongly agreed with the sentiment

[@ziziroberts8041]

I can't manage to giggle at all about HIV. I lived in Greenwich Village from 1975 until the early 90s. I lost a lot of friends. One of them was a 30 year old who identified as a heterosexual female. The doctors didn't consider the possibility that she had AIDS until it was too late. RIP, Carole. RIP John. RIP comrades from behind The Red Door. 💔💗🌹

[@Griffin12536]

Showed my Republican brother (hates trump) a video of yours on logic just before discussing Ben Shapiro. He took a liking to you. You make content that matters my dude.

[@deereye87]

Nice!

[@kalebmark2908]

that has a snowball effect, nice!

[@younghegelian4815]

I respect republicans who hate Trump. You can at least reason with them

[@luke-fh9gf]

Wow I've never met a republican that doesn't like trump.

[@bigboy2217]

Mac Daddy Vibe if trump didn’t exist you’d pick the next closest thing. He’s not that bad, you just like playing games.

[@hive_indicator318]

If this turns into "Adam ruins Olly Thorn", I'll be both frustrated and entertained.

[@morph1207]

...and turned on

[@truedarklander]

@@morph1207 humiliation fetish?

[@Condorito380]

I can agree with what Adam Conover says while still wanting to punch his smug little face until the smarmy stops.

[@a-goblin]

oh no, delete this before the fanfic writers get ideas

[@EW_CP]

wrong site 🙈

[@Xanthelei]

Becoming a lay expert is basically how trans healthcare has evolved over the past 10 years too. WPATH was a great boone... when it first came out. It hasn't been adjusted in any meaningful way since, and a good portion of accepted medical care for trans people relies on studies from the 1970s, 1980s and 1990s - half or more of them were done before I was even born, yet that's what's used to determine how to treat me. Meanwhile there's doctors who are actually delving into the science of hormones alongside their lay expert patients and finding treatment plans with fewer side effects, less risk, and better outcomes. Or for the average trans patient, we simply have to become the expert to teach out 'expert' doctors wtf to do. Interesting how it's always minority groups that end up having to become their own experts, despite what they learn having applicability in other areas. (Viral care for HIV, testing proceedures, and elder hormone care for trans patients.)

[@Xanthelei]

@jshowa o The HIV positive patients had to become their own experts because the people doing research weren't listening. They sabotaged a drug trial and when asked why, the response was "because we are *dying* while you are testing, and we won't stand for it anymore." It wasn't until the minority (those with HIV/AIDS) forced change that things got better. The same has been true for trans patients. We've had to push hard against gatekeeping enabled by WPATH, advocate for better treatment by office staff (such as not outing us regardless of legal name), hell I had to teach my GP about dysphoria before I allowed a PAP smear because I knew it was going to be rough - and it was, for both of us, and without a primer it could have been much, MUCH worse. The entire point I was making was that there is a trend of a minority group having to fiercely advocate for themselves before their care reaches parity with the general populace's care for a similar thing.

[@Xanthelei]

@jshowa o Wow, it's almost like you don't know what you're talking about and haven't bothered to read up on anything. Welcome to the internet, where Google experts know more than those who lived through the actual experience. I trust Oliver far more to re-explain something I learned in the 90s than some random on the internet, and I sure as hell trust my own history more. Especially when you try to use my exact point as a reason I'm 'wrong.'

[@Xanthelei]

@jshowa o 1) Oliver has a track record of striving for truth and accuracy, something you as a complete random poster do not have. So yes, I will trust him to *report historical fact and relay what experts have researched* accurately. If you really think he's giving medical advice you are noy paying the least bit of attention or, as I'm now convinced, a troll. 2) You used your personal experience with an entirely different procedure to completely dismiss my trauma and discredit my account of being forced to educate a medical professional who should have learned that information on her own the day she accepted a trans man as her patient and agreed to continue my prescription for testosterone. She was a good doctor, and I hold no grudges against her, but that doesn't mean the procedure was any less traumatic for me, and it doesn't excuse the need to do her job for her. **Which was the entire basis of my original comment, which you also completely dismissed.** (Maybe if I bold it you'll actually read it...) 3) I'm done replying. Either you are arguing in good faith and will actually consider my response, or you are a troll and a waste of my time to reply to. Either way I have far more urgent things to devote my time to than trying to educate someone on things they could just as easily learn themselves with a few minutes on Google and Wikipedia and a bit of lurking in the relevant subreddits and forums. Which I suggest you do, if you actually care about the subject of minority groups having to advocate for their own best practices care.

[@kensurrency2564]

I have been a lab tech for over 20 years. I know how instruments, sensors, and tests work. When my wife was in labor with our third child, she was fitted with a blood pressure collar, as is standard in hospital to provide an early warning for high blood pressure (pre-eclampsia) during labor. Long story short. My wife rolled over, pinching the tube connecting the collar to the instrument, and it started alarming. Nurses and doctors freaked out. Came running in with syringes of medicine. Nothing was wrong with my wife’s condition: it was a totally normal pregnancy and she was feeling fine the entire time. I took agency and questioned the MD - “what do you think you’re doing?” My wife sat up and her blood pressure reading went back to normal. The MD was a second away from injecting something unnecessary into her IV hookup. Folks, that’s how fast it can happen. And if you are curious, look up the data on medical mistakes. They are legion. And they are overwhelmingly NOT malicious. Humans are fallible. You are your own best advocate.

[@TimdeVisser86]

TWIST: Abigail was speaking from experience as a secondary expert the WHOLE TIME

[@paxtongrace5407]

ayo im a lesbian but ollie do be looking kinda pretty tho

[@zoewells3160]

Don’t worry, you’re still a lesbian.

[@magicrainbowkitties1023]

Well this aged weird

[@mixedviews3536]

@@magicrainbowkitties1023 this aged perfectly. 😂 it happens a lot tbh.

[@thesamplerproject632]

Yeah.... funny that....

[@vecvecvec]

you no longer have to fear

[@yannak.3894]

It's really satisfying to hear Olly call it "the Reagan regime." We should call neoliberal government regimes more often.

[@Deschutron]

Ah yes because regime means _bad_ government.

[@willtor]

​@@abendrot___8055 "a government, especially an authoritarian one," according to Google. Maybe the second half of that is recent -- you may know more about the etymology. But that second half is certainly used by media to influence popular perceptions. Allied governments and leaders are "administrations" and "governments." Adversarial ones are "regimes." In the U.S., we hear about the "Saudi government," and the "Iranian regime." Saudi Arabia is an ally, and Iran is an adversary. We know which one is which because of which word media uses to describe their governments.

[@tobistein6639]

​@@abendrot___8055 Yeah, but it comes with connotations like "autocratic" "elitist" "oppressive upper class" "bad"

[@jessthehuman]

​@@abendrot___8055 It is specifically used by "western governments" to make the 'other' sound scary. Regime Kaiser Tsar etc It literally is propaganda. I'm not for calling all scary government a 'regime' - we need to standardise everything, not politicise everything even more.

[@musikkritik6316]

@@jessthehuman You're right. FÜR DEN KAISER.

[@joaovictorcarvalho6339]

"But better how?" Ive never felt so threatened in my life and it isnt even me whos being interviewed

[@Mikopotato95]

Being called out for the naturalist fallacy is honestly so threatening

[@benny_lemon5123]

Oh boy, that moment triggered my "Can I speak to you in my office?" flight response lol

[@melanierhianna]

So I'm loving Abi's "compatible" hair. I remember that :-)

[@Robin-of2jt]

I'm mulitply disabled in some uncommon ways and as such myself and other people with my conditions have become lay experts, often having to educate our doctors who have never heard of them before. I've taught myself how to read medical journals and presentations and the management of my conditions because unless a very expensive and unavailable doctor has taken a special interest in my conditions, they have no idea about them.

[@user-vu2yb1gy4l]

Same, I have EDS and I'm going into medical to work from becoming a lay expert to an expert. (Not that lay experts are invalid)

[@greybad3009]

Ask any woman with PCOS or endometriosis and we already know this. If you are already vulnerable, people find it difficult to extend empathy towards you and need to find another reason to explain your 'complaining'.

[@fruitygarlic3601]

Absolutely. When I was 13 or 14, I persuaded my mother to take me to the doctor to investigate whether I had PCOS or another condition. Despite my many protests, months of research on endocrinological conditions, and close monitoring of my physical state, the male doctor shot me down because I looked like a "healthy female weight" under my winter coat - caused by stress-related weight loss. I had to stop shaving and washing my face, inducing acne and a visible moustache, to convince them to give me a blood test. And I still don't know if I have PCOS years later, even though I can guarantee that my sexual organs are problematic. If you got my reply in your notifications, I am sorry to lay all of my burdens on you. I just hope that someone in the comment section will take this as an example of experts' biases failing POC, LGBT+ folk, women, etc., and how godammn hard it is to get a PCOS diagnosis.

[@Sophie_Cleverly]

I faced similar with Crohn's 😩 as a teenage girl presenting with mainly stomach pain, weight loss and fatigue, I was so often asked if I was pregnant or on drugs or had anorexia. I wasn't believed about my pain and had so many awful experiences, even getting screamed at by a doctor who said I was "overreacting" - before I got rushed to hospital for emergency surgery because I was nearly dying 🙈 luckily I finally got the diagnosis after about 10 years and things are much better!

[@DragonNexus]

@@Sophie_Cleverly There's the idea in medicine called the Zebra. In that when you're outside and you hear hoof beats in the ground, what's your first reaction? There's a horse nearby, right? The first reaction likely isn't to assume a zebra is nearby. So medicine has to be careful that they don't look at symptoms and jump straight to the obscure answer. If someone comes in with a persistent cough and difficulty breathing, you don't leap straight to lung cancer, you first assume asthma and test for that. But the problem here is it leads doctors to be way to afraid of thinking outside of the box. Becomes sometimes hoof beats really are a sign that a zebra is nearby. And medical professions have to stop discounting what the patients said as if they're a moron. They know how their own body feels more than the doctor does. It's a difficult line to walk, but there has to be an honest back and forth between patient and doctor. If one is lying or otherwise disinterested in communication, the process halts.

[@horseenthusiast1250]

Tbh just being a woman with a disease...I've been trying to get a proper Hashimoto's Hypothyroidism diagnosis for 8 years (where I've had a LOT of symptoms and a family history of it). Last time I went in for a checkup and bloodwork, the doctor literally interrupted me trying to tell her about my symptoms so she could tell me I had acne on my back (it wasn't even much...)

[@smirkingdog6924]

fruity garlic I just wanna say I’m sorry to hear about your frustrations, it’s so dehumanising when you’re being ignored. I agree with the comment further down that women’s issues largely get ignored and downplayed. I advise you not to give up, push for an ultrasound. Long story short- it took me 2 years of repeated Dr. Visits to be diagnosed with PCOS. I’m fit and sporty, so the overweight trope threw them off- they say. I wanted to operate on my ovaries because to quote the Dr. They were bulky, I was regularly throwing up and incapacitated on/before my period. Years to no avail I now have two cysts, one is 14cm, the other 17cm. Last July I went to A&E vomiting blood suspecting one had burst, I got sent away with paracetamol because he said I was either drunk (I’d had a fruit shoot) or having an anxiety attack.... it is quite frankly disgusting what women have to go through in the name of disbelief, fertility or questioning our intelligence. Do not give up questioning and hounding the doctors. I’m suing mine :) Good Luck, I hope you find a solution soon.

[@mikehaywood1005]

“We keep falling for the same deception” or something like this. I was literally just talking about this yesterday in relation to the protestors. My mind completely changed when I realized the same thing has been said about protestors since the civil rights movement. The arguments of the “counter-narrative” has literally been the “narrative” for generations and we, for some reason, can’t seem to get passed that.

[@mycterism]

"outside agitators" causing violence predates the Civil War, as well.

[@teddy3k3]

The secondary experts bit rings so much more true once I learned I was actually autistic. Researching the issue meant that I learned other people's experiences with getting a diagnosis and those who are self diagnosed. The reason they diagnose themselves, other than being helpful for them, was that the doctors just won't give them the help that they need. Autistic people, along with most of the Neurodivergent community, had to be their own experts in order to help themselves!

[@maywhaltz935]

I was thinking the same thing, to this day autistic people still know more than doctors because they refuse to listen.

[@sriramramesh5318]

"Side effects may include.....Lightness of Wallet" is a line I need to start using more

[@RinoYoyo]

Omg that little hand flip when she said "double blind". The little things like that make me so happy

[@richardthemagician8991]

I used the AIDS crisis a lot during the pandemic. My uncle died of AIDS back in 84. My mother wasn't allowed to see her dying brother in hospital because she was pregnant with my brother. At that point, they still didn't know how it spread. Just how the use of condoms helped to prevent the spread of HIV, masks help prevent the spread of COVID. The sad part is there are some things we don't need an expert to tell us. And if a person still doesn't get it, an expert isn't going to change their mind.

[@lovelyyecats]

This disregard of people's physical pain also happens to women of all races (although it's definitely more likely to happen to WOC). Women are more likely to be prescribed sedatives or mental health drugs than painkillers. They're more likely to be sent home from the hospital in the middle of a heart attack. Personal story - I'm a middle-class white woman. When I was 16, I woke up in the middle of the night short of breath and with a sharp pain in my abdomen. When I called an ambulance, all of the EMTs dismissed my symptoms as an anxiety attack, and they *refused to take me to the hospital.* Luckily, my parents insisted (because, you know, I *couldn't breathe*), and when I got to the hospital and I got tested, they found that my lungs had partially collapsed during the night. They immediately took me into surgery and saved my life. If my parents hadn't insisted on ignoring the "expert's" diagnosis (which was clearly based on subconscious (or conscious) sexism), I would have probably died. Sexism and racism in the medical field is a HUGE problem, and it has direct, fatal consequences.

[@ruthspanos2532]

I just learned from a friend who is a nurse that complaining of abdominal pain is very common among people who are addicted and seeking pain killers. So..women, minorities and basically everyone can be ignored if they have abdominal pain.

[@werosification]

"let's go find the original study that the vox article is citing" is how I write my uni essays

[@ThrottleKitty]

The irony of a man named "Con Over" being one of the main guys teaching you about how you are being conned over!

[@purpleghost106]

Perhaps it works though, because he can always make the pun "the Con is over!" XD

[@ThrottleKitty]

@@falsum2701 Come to think of it, ad his first name "a-dam con-over" ... totally sounds like a made up character name. It's like Max Power being the guy who cuts off your power!

[@milliequick1271]

Nominative determinism, or confirmation bias? Only the truth sphere (your "moon") contains the answer

[@jasbrg]

@@milliequick1271 I don't know what you mean, but I agree

[@Channel9001]

"side effects include shortness of breath and lightness of wallet." I'm using that one.

[@ZestyMR]

My mom is a hematologist, she works on sickle cell anemia now. But she worked with HIV patients in the late 80s early 90s. People where so scared and ignorant about it that my dad literally told my mom "I will forgive you if you get AIDs".

[@cj-1021]

i can't believe he said "big pork" instead of "big pig"

[@dansaunders1655]

Tbf to a Brit BIG PORK is pretty funny

[@virgovirtuoso]

I wanted big pig so bad.

[@rodrigo2070]

I wanted it to be Big Bacon

[@danielburns3240]

well that's just the police industry

[@509734]

Big Pork sounds sexier, more sensual

[@the_REAL_Pearl_]

A reminder about the Kellogg family: they literally ran a sanitarium. Keep that in mind when considering their funding of eugenics organizations.

[@jiffylou98]

The Kellog Corporation: Dont touch your penis

[@camillajefferson386]

And [citation needed] cornflakes were invented as an attempt to dissuade boys from masturbating. (I read this probably over a decade ago now, and am wildly paraphrasing what I remember without searching for a source to double check, hence citation being needed. But hopefully someone reading this comment will go to double check themselves and go down the rabbit whole of the insanity that is Kellogg.)

[@adorabell4253]

@@camillajefferson386 Did you read it on Cracked? Cause I did!

[@rebekahrhodes9512]

@@camillajefferson386 Adam conover actually talks about this on his show at one point, if you search it he has his citations listed.

[@MrAapasuo]

True, though the brother that ran Sanitarium lost his rights to the Kellogg brand to his younger brother. The Sanutarium also wasnt exactly what might imagine, as it mainly catered to well to do higher and middle class people making it sort of a resort to its clients. Man was nutjob no mistake in that though but the sanitarium itself was pretty much equivalent to modern day health resorts. Minus the enemas the place was fond of.

[@ycad7996]

Adam mentioned ‘empathy’ as an aspect of his process of inquiry, and I think that is so important and yet often overlooked...

[@tarathetortoise]

I recently came across this channel and I'm writing this as a response to the dozen episodes that I have (almost) binged watched during the past couple of days. I wanted to thank you for having made this "thing" that is authentic and real enough to somehow be a representation of your own life journey during the past 7 years and yet, very educational philosophy-wise. I live in a state of (almost) complete oppression, with no right to free speech, where being an atheist is an actual crime and you can be hanged for being gay. I have to use a VPN to be able to stream KZbin, use Twitter, Telegram or even Tiktok (which I wouldn't use anyway, but its annoying to know that I'm not allowed to). There is even a chance that if this comment is somehow tracked back to me, I would face real consequences which is also why I am wearing hijab in my profile picture. I don't think that this channel has any other Iranian audience (if you are an Iranian who likes this channel, maybe we should get to know each other) so I wanted you (Olly) to know that you have at least one fan right here in Iran, the country with the cheapest money, most ridiculous economic system and under some of the harshest sanctions ever enforced on a country, and where people are getting the death penalty left and right with no good reason what so ever. Anyway, thank you for doing what you're doing, watching this channel has been one the most enjoyable things for me recently.

[@justabitofamug6989]

When you can't look at your script because you have a blindfold on but still nail it perfectly

[@emilyrln]

You might be surprised by how well you can see through material that looks opaque. BUT I don’t deny Olly’s flawless delivery.

[@booboodadfool8015]

@@emilyrln somebody's been blindfolded on enough occasions to be an expert...good on you

[@emilyrln]

@@booboodadfool8015 XD for research

[@cloud_and_proud]

Olly is an actor, he doesn't read off a script, he remembers it himself.

[@fortunomancy]

Twist: the script is very tiny and hidden under the blindfold

[@legendswarble2845]

Talking about what feels like modern fears and failings through the lens of the AIDS crisis was a really surprising but insightful move. It brought things into focus in a really interesting way.

[@DellaDykeborn]

"Because we're dying. We're not lab rats. We're people."

[@Sentientmatter8]

It's SO powerful to watch that now, knowing she said this AS a member of a queer minority currently fighting to get the medical establishment take them seriously in a fight for their lives.

[@pengfeidong5268]

"All of the pig farmers sold their farms and built 5G towers on their farms." Ah yes when I drive through Iowa there're just acres of solid 5G towers, back to back.

[@lilyoftheveil666]

If you want to know more about how AIDS activists became secondary experts, watch the documentary "How to Survive a Plague". Also big ups to Larry Kramer, an early AIDS activist who died recently.

[@OblivionHelena]

Just commented to recommend it myself, it's excellent. And rest in peace, Larry Kramer, what a legend.

[@Maryxus]

Re: only testing White gay men in HIV medication trials: Weird Science is a silly movie, but WEIRD science (White, Educated, Industrialized, Rich and Democratic) is a huge problem in research. It doesn't invalidate all the results, but it means we lack a full picture of many issues. Also, it makes it practically impossible to determine what things are human universals.

[@yeetusfetus8687]

Hate that there's an acronym for it, tells me how prevalent it is 😣

[@eoincampbell1584]

@@yeetusfetus8687 ok but it's a pretty good acronym

[@edible0pig]

But my creation... is it real? My creation... I do not know...

[@GibusWearingMann]

As someone with autism it's definitely impacted that area. Autism manifests in women differently than in men, and as a result autistic women are severely underdiagnosed. (Full disclosure: am male)

[@artofescapism]

exactly! one of the first examples that comes to mind for me is that certain birth controls are only made to be effective up to a certain weight, so people who are above that weight are left out of the testing entirely, and they may not even know it! And the multitude of issues with studying uterine disorders such as PCOS and endometriosis- there's so much we still don't know about those, and so many people suffer because the research simply isn't a priority compared to other things (*cough* erectile dysfunction *cough*) and doesn't get the same kind of funding. and don't even get me started on how homogenous studies in sociology can be!

[@philsophkenny]

Would love to see your take on Q-anon.

[@JustTavia]

I was so distracted by Abigail’s teeth while watching this video, she has such a beautiful smile!

[@michaeleleczko1684]

Proof she's not British. Jk jk I'm a yankee and her teeth are far superior to mine.

[@JustTavia]

@@michaeleleczko1684 Can confirm: I’m British and I have terrible teeth!

[@miratarnish6316]

Oh I've been waiting for an Abi teeth appreciation thread! She has a really nice smile

[@dogsofalvsbacka]

I can't believe you missed the opportunity of saying "they're all in the pockets of big parma (ham)".

[@CoreenMontagna]

I expected “Big Pig” but I think I might like this one more!

[@JPJPR]

😂 Puntastic!

[@thceppur6755]

"Which stood for Lymphademo-.... Which stood for Lymphademen-..(*lip licking intensifies*).. Which stood for Le Aids Virus" ~ Olly Thorne 2020

[@tobithetabby6376]

This is what I love about content like Olly and Natalie's. They go deeper into topics and help us clearly understand things. Sure, I could just shame and mock those that believe in these new conspiracy theories, but shame and mocking only goes a small way (and does not work in all circumstances and there's a big chance of people just doubling down on their beliefs in response to shaming). It's just nice to see something from a completely new perspective. Thank you.

[@vincentgallorespecter]

Do you have a 105 IQ?

[@ptanyuh]

It's so hard to BE an expert :( I never thought studying the climate would have so many morons yelling in my face that I don't know what I'm talking about.

[@rainmejker8859]

First things that came to my mind when i saw the 'eyes' were "Pan's Labyrinth' and "On the Silver Globe' - curious to see if i was right.

[@notabadcookie]

The pyramids on the palms are giving me "Eye of Providence" vibes. We'll find out soon enough lol.

[@FirstnameLastname-hq5rd]

Same! Would love to see him deconstruct that movie

[@badasunicorn6870]

I also get pan's laberynth vibes when you mention it, but I read it not as a refrence, but a consteucted message. It's either a symbol of our blind trust in science, and how it's essentially just another authority we gotta assume is right, or it's the person who rejects science, but sees clearly by alternate methods. Either way I think Olly's gonna explain how science is normally a term refering to a socialy constructed label of validity, instead of a method of emperical examination. How people use science as well of premises that can't be questioned; dogma, rather than a method for aquiring a specific kind of knowledge useful at certain important scales, that's still subject to our prioritisation and rhethoeic framing.

[@NeverBeenElsewhere]

I think it was just meant to allude to blind oracles? Olly is playing a blind oracles, saying, "trust in my system of divining what is right, for we cannot trust what we see, or the so called experts system of determining what is right"

[@FirstnameLastname-hq5rd]

@@NeverBeenElsewhere Yeah we all jumped the gun thinking it involved Pan's Labyrinth haha

[@megumichan400]

I live in a small town in the Midwest, and a lot of people here are can be very closed minded. There have been many times where people would judge me for simply wearing a mask even though it's mandatory in my state. The whole thing with the mask is irritating, but what was scary was when people started blaming Asians(mainly Chinese people) as the cause of the virus. I'm a White/Asian(Japanese) mix race person. When things were really heated during quarantine my mother wouldn't let me leave the house since she was scared that I would be confronted by people blaming me for coved; Even when I did go out people would avoid me and would even noticeably quicken their pace as they would pass me and my mother in the store. The worse of it for me was when news got to me about there being a "No Japs Allowed" sign at one of the gas stations in my town; That scared/angered me quite a lot since people were just okay with not looking into articles and studies about coved explaining more about what's really going on, and would instead just blissfully pretend it's not real/gone and/or point fingers at one group saying that this pandemic is all our fault and telling many of us that we don't belong here. I just hope that more people will open their eyes to all this, and try to do something about it so we can all be safer even if that's just blissful thinking on my part

[@1996Pinocchio]

That's exactly what happened in Nazi-germany to jews, blacks and disabled people.

[@megumichan400]

@@1996Pinocchio This sort of thing has happened to many different groups of people in many different places throughout the years. It's sad, but all we can do is try to improve as a group.

[@jaojao1768]

That is horrible

[@ddis29]

+

[@RicardoMoralesMassin]

wow I looked at my watch and it was time to blow up a gas station in a small town in the midwest

[@xXLily4EverXx]

I've recently started working as a teaching assistant for special educational needs kids in a comprehensive secondary school. On the first INSET day, the headteacher gave a brief speech about how difficult it can be for teachers to apply the expert advice offered to them by psychologists and other experts in child behaviour - because most of the research is done in conditions completely unlike a school setting, by people who don't have time to actively teach in schools. It seems like a shame (and something we should change?) that sometimes the people on the ground don't have time or resources to be involved in the research that informs their profession. Though I am still learning how it all works so maybe I am wrong.

[@tayfunloritz2185]

Hello Abigail! About 1½ years ago i had to write a well researched paper about a topic of my interest related to the 80s. I wanted to write about the AIDS crisis and coincidentally a few weeks after that I watched this video for the first time. And this gave me such a good base to start with, i cited you several times in the paper as well as used some of the sources that you put in the video for further research. I don't know, I just really admire the work you do and the way you give all your sources so the audience can do research of their own as well.

[@ThatOneIrishFurry]

The big pork conspiracy: *exists* H1N1: *sweats nervously*

[@merrittanimation7721]

Mother 3: *looks around confused* (For clarification the antagonists of that game are pig themed)

[@klisterklister2367]

@@merrittanimation7721 nice, love that game

[@pineapplesocks8603]

This is a crossover I never in my wildest dreams though possible

[@badasunicorn6870]

I don't see why not. Apart from olly's goal of giving free education, they're both basically debunking bad arguments by using two different but related fields. The structure of it all through philosophy, or the facts by science. I think Olly might set up a conflict between the two, and conclude they both serve a purpose. I also have a sudden hunch he might bring up witches again.

[@jizburg]

@@placeholdernameisplacehold7671 who is the extemist and what wievs were extreme?

[@dansaunders1655]

Adam Crossover

[@iLikeTheUDK]

I'm ashamed of myself that I thought you're a man when you look this stunning

[@DarthCalculus]

The engagement ring/diamond narrative that Adam described checks many of the boxes for a conspiracy theory - no wonder it's such an intoxicating story

[@kitmacneil1867]

let’s go lesbians let’s go

[@agiar2000]

(Claps and stomps to the rhythm)

[@gwenrees7594]

ROUNDING THE CORNER A BUNCH OF LESBIANS

[@defensivekobra3873]

why are the lesbians hyped?

[@randompenguin6376]

Here we go, lesbians!

[@siiri8902]

@@defensivekobra3873 idk man we just love philosophytube

[@Hakajin]

I feel like one important thing is left out here, though: medicine is not a field of pure intellect where the best ideas win and the most virtuous people succeed. It's a business. Money and politics do affect who gets heard and what gets revealed. People who peddle alternative medicine are successful in part because they have a grain of truth: pharmaceutical companies are generally more interested in profit than they are in helping people. They've been known to cover up harmful side-effects, use humans in testing without their knowledge or consent. And it's not only medicine where this is true; politics play a role in academic areas all around. I say this as an academic. I mean, just look at how hard it is to access publications: unless you're in the field, you have to pay exorbitant amounts of money to gain even brief access to research. No wonder people are confused!

[@rafaelalmada723]

L this reminds of 40's Germany's not teaching certain physics discoveries for being "Jewish physics". Or Newton vs Leibniz as the developers of calculus, people in Britain and Germany often taught that one was the first and the other came later. Heck, nothing can get away from political and economical influences.

[@gelatinocyte6270]

Yeah! This is exactly my biggest problem: when research papers are paywalled. If only knowledge is collectively owned or something...

[@rafaelalmada723]

Gelatinocyte I recommend using sci-hub(dot)se to have access to paywalled papers, not all of them will be accessible, but it's pretty large. You just need the name of the article or its DOI (its identification), that you can usually find on the articles citation. If you are looking for more mathematically based articles, I recommend ArXiv, it's an online repository where many articles are published prior to being released in an official journal. So many journal articles have free versions on arXiv. There is also biorXiv for biology-related subjects. But yeah, there wouldn't need to be such an hassle if we had free access to these in the first place, they are quite literally gatekeeping people who can't afford it.

[@N3ONLUV]

@@rafaelalmada723 omg thank you

[@mtext8599]

This this this this this a thousand times this comment. The video's single biggest omission is the role that previous (and in some cases certainly ongoing) scientific corruption for monetary gain has played in corroding public trust in big-S Science generally.

[@a.gravemistake3061]

"KZbin is a terrible business." *resigned sighed* "I know."

[@alexinatree2564]

"I get called a cuck, that's fine"

[@CosmosisAjax]

I really wish Dr. Fauci's role during the HIV/AIDS epidemic had been touched upon. Not just because it was another connection to todays. He was the first to actually listen to those activists and try to bridge the gap between experts and the public.

[@Sentientmatter8]

Well that makes me feel more positive about his role during this pandemic.

[@NAJALU]

For those curious, Radiolab has a great (but also extremely sad) episode on this called "Ashes on the Lawn"

[@Alex-yg1rm]

69th liker

[@omarsener8491]

@@truthisalchemy318 how? Asking out of curiosity.

[@ashisburning7786]

@@truthisalchemy318 I would resort to correcting your grammar, but I won’t. Although Dr. Fauci did hold a lot of test trials, and had a lot of backlash from Act Up protestors for not including them in the trials, Burroughs-Wellcome was the company that independently patented AZT and they are the ones that should be held accountable for exploiting desperate people. Fauci actually was involved in the community and tried to care about the individuals who had AIDS, unlike Burroughs-Wellcome who were focused on making money from the situation.

[@RycoreXIII]

To quote smite KZbin superstar punkduck, "Research is gay."

[@andreapiccolo8199]

Am I research?

[@RycoreXIII]

@@andreapiccolo8199 you're the one asking the real questions here lol.

[@jeremyn4397]

@@guystridsigne2691 Get Guud! or just play Achilles

[@MegaBanne]

Research makes me feel gay... In a very old fashion meaning of the word gay. It makes me want to have same sex sex with top hats, tailcoats while speaking in a Victorian snob English dialect.

[@genericname8727]

@@andreapiccolo8199 that’s praxis

[@majaherold1325]

On a completely unrelated note, the image of Peppa Pig floating in the orb at 23:29 really made me snort

[@ihaps1117]

Thank you for pointing out the first name for AIDS beings GRIDS. That was apparently covered up real quick and research is a bit fuzzy nowadays, but I still remember that nugget from school two decades back.