Who Were the Missing Primarchs? | Warhammer 40k Theories and Lore

[@robbybeckmeyer828]

You mentioned this, and I've commented this once or twice on other people's videos, but I for one like the idea that the 11th Primarch/Legion were the Emperor's clandestine anti-chaos force and they were (ironically) corrupted by Malal. The gene-seed corruption aspect was a bit of new information for me, but the fall of the super-secret, anti-chaos legion to the powers of chaos lines up very nicely with a lot of the tangential evidence we have: First of all, there's the number 11 staring us in the face. Malal likes the number 11 and the 11th legion is missing and redacted, ~spooky~ More importantly (at least for me) is that whatever the lost legions did threatened the very existence of the Imperium during the Great Crusade. To me, that rings of an ideological threat more than a tangible threat. As you mentioned, this all went down during or just after the Rangdan Xenocides so a tangible threat is definitely plausible, but it seems like the Imperium didn't suffer any war along the lines of the Horus Heresy at this point. Yes, there was clearly a massive war and lots of Dark Angels died, but not only did the Imperium remain a juggernaut on the galactic stage, it continued to grow and prosper for another century. An ideological threat, however, could have made the Imperium come apart at the seams. The early Imperium is well-known for the Imperial Truth: no gods, just facts and logic. The issue with this is that, well...there are clearly gods in the warp. Baldermort said something along the lines of, "The trap that was the Imperial Truth had been sprung, for if the Emperor told the truth then what was corrupting the Warmaster? If the Emperor was lying....then why should we follow such a man?" in one of his many, many videos. The point is, any of the Emperor's forces falling to Chaos would have been incredibly damaging to the Imperium. It would reveal that, at its core, the premise of the Great Crusade - the very thing that every Primarch, Astartes, and common man had been laboring under for decades and centuries - was a lie. Any of the Emperor's forces falling to Chaos would have revealed this falsehood, but a force developed in secret to specifically address the hidden threat of Chaos falling to Chaos corruption takes it to a whole other level. Maybe you can do some mental gymnastics to get out of Baldermort's catch-22 by saying "Oh the Emperor just didn't know about Chaos." Fair enough, it's certainly plausible from a layman's perspective. But if it came to be known that the Emperor had a secret anti-Chaos force AND that force was corrupted by a Chaos god...well then the Emperor would be revealed to be a liar before the entire galaxy with no room for the benefit of the doubt. Uprisings would spring up left, right, and center as the Emperor had just been proved to not be as infallible as he claimed; governors and magistrates across the galaxy would begin to wonder what other lies this "Emperor" had spread. Governors and magistrates aside, what would the Primarchs think? What about their legions? What makes this even more compelling to me is how the surviving Primarchs are affected by this. The Primarchs have been shown time and time again to be Kardashian-level divas, but they also frequently share deep bonds of brotherhood: Ferrus and Fulgrim, Magus and Perturabo, Sanguinius and Horus. Clearly the 11th Primarch and Lorgar shared a bond as well. We see as much when some Word Bearers go back in time and see the Emperor's lab before the scattering of the Primarchs and they comment on the heartbreak the 11th would cause Lorgar. It's important to note here that the Rangdan Xenocides happened well before the razing of Monarchia and the Emperor's chastisement of Lorgar, so it's possible that this "heartbreak" would come when the 11th falls to Malal. As an anti-Chaos legion, the 11th is already well-positioned to fall to Malal, and Malal's end goals would be well-served by educating the 11th Primarch on the nature of Chaos. Learning about Chaos (and, therefore, the lies of the Emperor) from a convincingly believable source, I suspect the 11th would have reached out to his closest brothers and shared his revelations. It seems likely that this would include the 2nd Primarch, but also Lorgar. As mentioned above, Lorgar is still deeply engrossed in Emperor-worship, so I ask you this: would a devout man betray his brother rather than betray his god? I suspect that he would. Heartbreaking indeed. I can talk about this theory all day, but I've been typing on my phone for like an hour and a half and you've mentioned a lot of the most compelling evidence already. Excellent video! I'm consistently impressed by the level of effort you put into the research and preparation for these vids

[@glueboy]

I think accidentally revealing some Chaos shit is the strongest theory. Cause thats the main thing I could think completely demolishing the Imperium. But hell yeah! Im glad that I can provoke a whole lot of really cool theory crafting. You made a real fun read.

[@cheeseburger2k891]

I love this idea and I'm gonna spam out some lore diving into Malal, so thank you! I think the only issue I personally can see would be that if Malal was able to corrupt a primarch or two and or their legions, why would the other four more powerful gods have waited until the heresy? Because they're clearly aware of the threat the imperium poses, so why wouldn't they mobilize their corruption earlier?

[@glueboy]

Based on the old lore of Malal (idk how much/if ant of this translates to current 40k) he is essentially a force that works against anyone. Where he just consistently fucks over the other 4 gods as often as he fucks over the good guys. That and in a proposed 40k storyline he was going to be killed by the other 4 gods. So its not a major stretch to say he would be working against the best interests of the other gods. Though the big hangup is that Malal isn't fully a thing anymore and exists in that "is he or is he not still canon" limbo. Theres no concrete proof hes gone, just hasnt been talked about in 40k since the old editions. Mainly being referenced in Fantasy since thats what he was originally was made for.

[@robbybeckmeyer828]

@@cheeseburger2k891 I have quite the headcannon built up on that issue you pointed out, but I'll save that can of worms for another day. The short version is that the 11th Primarch/Legion found themselves in a protracted clusterf*** that Malal could turn to his advantage. The nature of the 11th being anti-Chaos and Malal's nature being (broadly) anti-Chaos made Malal's offer seem very generous, given the situation the 11th Legion/Primarch were in. A preface before I address the second part of your question: It seems to me that there was a giant, very complex game going on between the Emperor and the Chaos gods with the souls of the Primarchs and the ability to dominate the galaxy in the balance. Malal decided to join the game as player six just so he could screw with everyone else's plans. I think the main Chaos gods were perfectly capable of corrupting a Primarch/Legion as soon as they wanted to, but they decided to wait for an opportune moment so that they could have the biggest impact. The Horus Heresy was that opportune moment - had the main four Chaos gods corrupted a Primarch or Legion any earlier, it wouldn't have led to as much success as it did in the Heresy. Malal decided to corrupt the 11th when he did because it would give Malal a stronger hand against the Chaos pantheon while also robbing the Imperium of their anti-Chaos specialists, giving the Space Wolves some experience dealing with Astartes, and dramatically shaking up the long-term plans of both sides.

[@jaegerbomb269]

I think the lost Primarchs got in bed with Xenos. I mean, what they did was worse than what Horus pulled. What could be worse than treason?

[@glueboy]

Theres a part in particular that I forgot to mention. In one of the newer books Guilliman is asked a question about 11 symbolic chairs in the Imperial Palace and not 8. He says "2 were lost, and the rest turned traitor." Which is why I don't fully believe the treason angle. Otherwise they would be lumped in with the traitors. Imo they didn't intentionally fuck up but did something so dangerous it needed to be erased. But like I mentioned in the video all the authors have different ideas that they cant full express. That and 40k is all just unreliable narration. So any theory is pretty well off here lol. Hard to be debunked when there is just no information in the first place!

[@IstvanThree]

I think we can see it as a fact that with at least one of them has to do with the gene seed - because that´s why Sanguinius is so secretive and almost in panic over his legions black rage and being wiped out as a result. And I don´t think they were "real" traitors, because, if I remember correctly, Horus was enraged over the (shrouded) statues and almost tried to make a case for them, before getting strangled. Other Primarchs too were stopped by their brothers when try to speak their names - if they were traitors, they would have gladly forgotten them and teared down any remembrances. In my opinion at least. I think it was more a great tragedy than a great betrayal - something like with Magnus. Bad things coming out of good intentions.

[@glueboy]

Exactly. My theory at the end is a more long winded way of saying I think they just fucked up in a really dangerous way rather than an intentional betrayal.

[@spacebatman961]

Based and gluepilled

[@Bertaroo1]

I got really drunk with one of the co-founders of Games Workshop at a networking event and asked him about the missing two primarchs... His response was "sorry it's too loud in this pub, I can't hear you"

[@glueboy]

Lmao thats great

[@unsertainley]

If the primarch was the embodiment of innocence my mind takes me to a "what if He found out about the emperors bargain with chaos, and tried to call him out on it". That would explain the need for mind alteration imo

[@glueboy]

Thats a really good theory. I could believe that

[@farkasmate1001]

Sounds really interesting. Tho i am sad that we will like never knowvthe truth

[@glueboy]

Yeah just one of those things where they are just gonna stay that eternal mystery in the setting

[@SansSentiments]

@@glueboy this better answers more questions than bring in new ones >.>

[@glueboy]

​@@SansSentiments Hopefully lmao. No promises though

[@zraal3759]

My hope is that GW never releases any information in the lost primarchs. Having the mystery is more compelling. Great video.

[@glueboy]

Same, I hope we dont get an answer but continue these little snippets of info. Its more fun.

[@almightycthulhu3651]

You are the first WarTuber that I've seen put themselves on screen. Thank you for sharing your glorious likeness with us brother! Take my like and subscribe!

[@timothylyons5686]

I believe one of the lost Primarchs sailed too close to the area where the god Slannesh was born and was corrupted. He became the god and his forces became the demonettes of Slannesh. That's why Fulgrim fell to Slannesh, the second corrupting the third.

[@penultimate8643]

I actually didn't know there was any info about the missing Primarchs. I don't think I've seen anyone else cover this topic. Really cool video.

[@toniviskari417]

Really fun short oversight into the subject and man did my mistaken belief about why the 2nd and 11th were kept secret get shattered there. I'll be honest, while I know they will probably never reveal what happened with those two, I kind of wish they did. They've just built it into this massive mystery at this point, so to me if you lean on a mystery component that much, there should payoff for it.

[@stephen2101]

It’s so cool to see this channel grow, when one of your videos popped into my recommended I was shocked you only had about 700 subscribers, very based and very glupilled as always

[@Lady_Maltheal]

Is malal maybe connected to the 11th primarch. I think one was probably a super chaos worshipper. Just my thoughts

[@TENGUartesmarciales]

Glueboy I have no idea why I wasn't subscribed to your channel, props for all the effort on your content, I hope you can keep making this and growing if that is what you wish.

[@glueboy]

Going straight to the top with this one. I aint quitting anytime soon

[@dziewon2866]

they ran out of zaza and went a little bit silly and mischievous (the consequences are known)

[@calumhood1997]

All the fan fictions about the missing primarchs I've heard they normally call the second soliman.

[@bigounce6966]

great video homie

[@andarchy1386]

I just recently came up with this theory watching The Lost Primarchs video what if ironically we've known all along and everything you said would fit Russ the Lion the shroud of mystery the time of it going down what if the 11th primarchs name was ....Rangdan

[@firstendo]

20, or is it 21. or 22 even. You know I'm talking about the alpha legion

[@warchiefzeke9134]

Strong theory.

[@user-rh8uo7si4z]

Lost primarchs: Gork n Mork 😅

[@Beardlythekind]

Great video!

[@sirenbreakfast]

Maybe the lost Primarchs were the friends we made along the way

[@glueboy]

The real answer to this whole thing lmao

[@koray_483]

Hell yeah, keep on glueing!!

[@nanoblast5748]

Kay so this is a joke and not a real theory. they told leman to go kill the II'nd legion but he was a bit of a dumb dumb and killed the 11th.

[@glueboy]

The cover up is just to hide the embarrassment lmao

[@reybasura2806]

Glueboy is the 11th primarch

[@fugglerbuttons3543]

A part of me wishes enough of this topic was vague enough as well as Age of sigmar not happening so that I could still believe sigmar is one of the lost primarchs

[@glueboy]

One of the many things The End Times stole from us. I really liked the uncertainty of if Fantasy just took place in some weird far off planet undiscovered by the Imperium

[@GrimmIsHere]

Awesome vid GB

[@ZuluZuluingtonthefirst]

good video but one small problem at the time of the burning of prospero leman russ had battled angron and his world eaters at that point

[@glueboy]

Ah shit yeah you're completely right. In retrospect it doesnt make complete sense since it seems the legions of the missing primarchs were untouched but reintegrated into the Ultramarines and Imperial Fists.

[@ZuluZuluingtonthefirst]

@@glueboy its all good man ive see a lot of 40k lore youtubes say the same thing

[@benjauron5873]

This is fiction, and in fiction, the rule is, tell the best story possible. So the most likely theory about what happened to the two missing primarchs is whichever one makes for the most entertaining story in the opinion of whoever owns the IP. However, if this were real, the rule would be parsimony. Ockham's Razor. The simplest explanation is almost always the correct one. So, applying the rule of parsimony, the most likely thing that happened to the missing primarchs and their legions is that an inherent gene-seed flaw caused the 2nd and 11th to be less-than-effective combat units. Less effective than the other legions, anyway. This less-than-effectiveness contributed to most of their numbers, including their primarchs, getting wiped out by the Rangdan. The few survivors were then culled by the Space Wolves so their memory could be erased from history, as their flaw and resultant substandard combat abilities made them an embarrassment to the Emperor and the others behind the Astartes project. The hypothesis about the survivors joining the Ultramarines is dubious at best. Different legions come from different planets and have cultures that are wildly different from each other. Legionnaires from one planet assimilating into a legion from another, while not impossible, is not a thing that would go unnoticed. The Ultramarines would inevitably ask their new legion members where they're from, what's it like there, what brought them to Macragge, etc., and it would thus invalidate the whole "erase them from history" thing. So, frankly, I find the whole "they were incorporated into the Ultramarines" theory to be kind of silly. The reason why the Ultramarines are the biggest legion is just because they have the most stable gene seed and they're just the best at doing what space marines do. That is the SIMPLEST explanation, so that would almost certainly be the correct one, if this was the real world. But it's not real, we're talking about a fictional universe here, so I'm sure the real answer is something far more... fantastic.

[@glueboy]

Only bit I'll clarify cause I don't think I delivered it that well in this video. The theory on them being put in the Ultramarines is actually an in universe one! It comes from The First Heretic. I personally tag it as more credible since it was directly observed that right after the 2 legions were dealt with, the Ultramarines got *boosted.* Anyone who asked why was hit with "Nothing suspicious is happening and we'll kill you if you try and look into it at all." I doubt it was an entire 2 legion worth tbh, I picture more like a good few thousand at most. Those that they properly mind wiped and could clear of whatever their Primarchs did.

[@benjauron5873]

@@glueboy Anything's possible, but Sanguinius made clear that the two lost legions had gene seed flaws. Ones at least as bad if not worse than the Blood Angels' (black rage and red thirst). The Ultramarines, on the other hand, have no known gene seed flaws. Indeed, having the most stable gene seed is kinda what they're known for. So even if it's just a few thousand, how could such horribly flawed Astartes fit in with the Ultramarines? Even if they were mind wiped or whatever?

[@RSBurgener]

So the Lost Primarchs aren't actually "lost" or traitor or dead...they have just never existed.

[@glueboy]

At least thats the effect of Malcador's mind alteration shenanigans

[@RSBurgener]

@@glueboy I've wonder if any of these authors have created Lost Primarch backstories and they're just under wraps until they get a greenlight. Or has literally nothing been written about them other than these throwaway lines here and there?

[@glueboy]

I imagine its just throwaway lines. Its probably one of the hard written rules in Black Library books. Though I do imagine some authors might have some story in mind that they just cant talk about or write. Since Aaron Dempski Bowden said that most Black Library authors aren't in agreement over the lost primarchs

[@LichKingg23]

You mentoned that Malcador was the 3° most powerful psyker. Emperor is the first, who would be the 2°?

[@glueboy]

Magnus

[@John.Doe.272]

Gluepilled.

[@SansSentiments]

as a thought, if you want to diversify and stay in the mysterious fantasy lane... SCP.

[@glueboy]

As much as I love SCP that aint my tone lol. That and I don't have scp lore downloaded into my brain in the same way I have 40k.

[@SansSentiments]

@@glueboy since i alredy have your Attention, i am no Fan of Subskription Models, PayPal and CCs. Any way i can fork you over some xmr?

[@glueboy]

The best way is through the yt donate button. Anything else is using those forms that you dont like.

[@SansSentiments]

@@glueboy yt is also CC :(

[@glueboy]

Yeah sadly those would be the only ways to throw money at me

[@jakehinton732]

11th Primarch is malal, 2nd Primarch is Omegon and he has been the corrupting influence to alpaharius, maybe the second has the ability to shape shift In a way, like a skin walker

[@SafetyBriefer]

No. Alpharius said a part of him was missing until he found Omegon.

[@JoeSmith-jw6cj]

👍 good video

[@Imsleepeebruh]

did you get a haircut bro? looks good,