Who Would Canonically Win? - Sonic the Hedgehog vs Fox McCloud

[@TheVocalButcher]

Congrats again on FINALLY getting this beast of a video out, dudes! Pleasure working with y'all on this! And thanks for having me! 🤘

[@Adrian_Is_In_Debt]

It’s the guy!!!

[@PaxtonLee]

Awesome work on the music, man!

[@khalidsaeedali8756]

Awesome music, man, good job.👌🏽😁

[@ManInTheMicrowave69420]

IM GOING ALL THE WAY

[@ryancurtis5425]

@@ManInTheMicrowave69420 _PUSH THE PEDAL TO THE METAL! REACH ANOTHER LEVEL!!!_

[@palmtree2711]

And so the most infamous episode's rematch finally comes out. You guys did an absolutely phenomenal job on this one. Basically everything I could say has already been said by other comments here. Wonderful job!

[@garyngaming]

26:29 As a Silver fan, I think watching Silver snatch and throw an Arwing clean out of the sky with his psychokinesis like that was the highlight of my day lol

[@thesilentshadow1256]

Bro's abouta flip when he sees Silver later down the road in storymode...

[@HIM1242]

@@thesilentshadow1256Don’t think there was any use saying that

[@thesilentshadow1256]

@@HIM1242 I was just trying to get bro excited, since silver was going to re-appear with his own animated fight.

[@Neutra77]

Fight was oddly a lot more small scale than the previous. Makes sense in terms of Sonic's ideal win scenario, but feels odd when accounting for the crazy stats and feats being shown off. Still, good fight and I appreciate the characterisation, Sonic goofing around a bit but still knowing when to fight seriously, and Fox having this quiet determination to do what he believes is right.

[@ahmadkazan5473]

I believe a small scale would help fox a whole lot more ,a more open space would give sonic much less reason not to care for the surroundings and speed blitz and one shot fox.

[@finaldusk1821]

In fairness, having lower-scale fights early in the bracket (at least in terms of their presentation and spectacle) will make for great contrast as the later fights ramp up the intensity. If EVERY fight involving a Star Fox contestant had to go into space, their fights would get repetitive long before their final rounds.

[@Neutra77]

@@finaldusk1821 true, it works in terms of presentation and the Smash Bracket series as a whole, still find it an issue of consistency with the fighters themselves though.

[@Vidplex104]

You didn’t go over sonics good feats

[@olimarpikmin976]

I find it funny how every time sonic cracked a joke he got his ass handed to him until he got revived by the chao

[@theta9273]

Can't say I agree with the Super Sonic logic (specifically him being less versatile than base Sonic), but aside from that it was still fun to watch the fight

[@22kingdomheartsfan]

Yeah I don't see how Sonic would lose his versatile powers just from being in super. And can't really agree that Fox's stuff is more powerful then anything Sonic's face. Not saying Fox's stuff wouldn't hurt, Fox could have something that could do some damage to Super, but I highly doubt it would one shot him like they say.

[@pauloestevao8962]

Right? Why would you consider the Super form worst than the base in any aspect? Is like say that "Ssj Goku would lose to Xxx but Base Goku would be able to defeat him because his more skilled".

[@playerback7722]

.

[@ClashBluelight]

Maybe he meant strategically. Like that Sonic doesn't have as versatile a mindset when in his super form? Or maybe he's referring to the fact that sonic can't use most of his powerups or any of his wisps when super.

[@22kingdomheartsfan]

@@ClashBluelight It might be the former, cause there's no reason Sonic can't use his other power ups. If he doesn't use them, it might be because he doesn't need to since his super handles most of his enemies

[@PaxtonLee]

Had a ton of fun working on this with you guys! GGs!

[@HoodedUlTi]

I KNEW IT WAS YOU! Dude you really cooked with the voice acting

[@PaxtonLee]

@@HoodedUlTi Thank you much! It’s been a bit since I recorded this, so it was almost like I was hearing it for the first time myself

[@no_0riginality937]

Ngl man you NAILED the Sonic voice Good job dude

[@TruBluTheSonicVA]

Bro, as a Sonic voice actor, this was top tier! Amazing work my guy!

[@PaxtonLee]

@@no_0riginality937 Thanks!

[@draconicanimations2381]

It's nice to see that Sonic and Fox are use the environments to their advantage.

[@thomasfan8889]

I’m excited for everyone to see this! The team put their entire heart and soul into this fight, and I really hope everyone sees that come through, whatever their hoped outcomes are! ~ Gordon Ramsey

[@theprosperchildren]

Yeah

[@sujimatsubackupaccount194]

Sorry but I have to rip your video a new ass. 1. Sonic never had all chaos emerald so him going super wouldnt have happened. 2. When sonic feel to his death he would only have 1 homing jump which he had nothing to hom on to. Meaning that would have been a game over. 3. Sonic never collected a ring. So every time he got hit your video was ignoring the fight and rules of what both sonic and fox would be like. Lastly during the sonic knight form. All fox had to do was use reflect being the item has no limit / limit use. Sonic would have taken recoil damage. So your video has a ton of miss information and doesn't even follow the fight . I noticed more inconsistencies within the fight via team sonic. That honestly you should have reviewed the fight better before releasing the video.

[@josesus9152]

@SpeedMan91 Question: What's stopping sonic from using chaos control and teleporting fox and his arwing into the sun? (sonic has teleported a planet before with the help of shadow.) Yeah I know it was in super form but seriously sonic can still use it in base.

[@theinktician]

@@josesus9152 The simple fact that its not in character. He'd teleport him out of the arwing, but not into something like the sun lol. TBH hed be more likely to teleport himself INTO the arwing and doing some lethal (and maybe illogical) hi-speed movement to destroy it from inside, like he does in cutscenes, shows, etc.

[@Crimgon]

This is honestly one of the best sprite animations I've seen in a while. Shame I missed the premiere.

[@Sol_Z]

That animation was absolutely phenomenal!! Definitely the best animation you guys made so far!

[@HeroTheHedgehog999]

Now honestly this was amazing! The animation was a massive upgrade and the voice acting was great and I’m glad that the explanation was much better than the first one.

[@charsonic1771]

It’s nice to see you here and I agree

[@HeroTheHedgehog999]

@@charsonic1771 ​ Hey I love me a good sprite animation I’ve been watching them for almost all my life and I became one myself.

[@reymarkmanaloto1143]

@@HeroTheHedgehog999 hey hero i am a extremely big fan i just got subscribe to your channel

[@HeroTheHedgehog999]

@@reymarkmanaloto1143 Oh? I have fans now?

[@reymarkmanaloto1143]

@@HeroTheHedgehog999 yes i always watch your content and every video you have

[@instantregret8362]

This was a great episode to watch. I still have a few issues with the research, like how Sonic's Detonate and Fox's Fire Bird were treated as instakills, the argument that the Super form limits Sonic's potential and arsenal, as well as some of the stats given for both, but research in versus is subjective. Either way, it was a fun battle and you even brought in what some of their behaviors would be into the fight. Keep on doing great things.

[@acasual1320]

Incredible episode, but by this episode's own logic, I don't think you can make a case for the Arwing ever beating Super Sonic. We know from the Solaris fight that in the rare occasion that a super state is damaged, they lose rings just like the characters would normally. Based on the # of rings the episode gives Sonic (999,999,999) and the minimum amount he loses every time his durability is exceeded(10), when compared Fox's strongest attack(2.48 x 10^21 joules) and Super Sonic's durability(32.5 x 10^18 joules), a max speed rolling attack would only make Super Sonic drop 736 of his 100,000,000 rings.

[@acasual1320]

@Andre Babani There are two ways to analyze the fire bird and both make it useless in this fight. A. It’s not an “instakill” and just a really powerful attack. Logically it can only be as strong as the most durable thing it’s destroyed (Arwings) which are less durable than Super Sonic B. It does instantly kill an opponent regardless of durability. In this scenario, by Smash Bracket’s interpretation of rings, it just makes Super Sonic lose 10 rings. The Arwing has no answer for Super Sonic as far as I am aware

[@WrongJoke06]

They also pulled the real funny move of saying that a strong enough attack could burn through ALL of Sonic's Rings without actually providing evidence of this, awesome. Seriously, I love this episode to death, but the actual research and analysis is heavily flawed in handling things like "Insta-kills" and basically all of the arguments made for Super Sonic, mainly him being less versatile and that he'd take too long to transform despite them saying it takes less than a second and when doing outside research, Sonic can literally transform without the need to expose the Emeralds (as seen in the genesis trilogy and in Mania). And when doing even more outside research, the Chaos Emeralds are durable enough to stay completely intact after falling to Earth from Space as seen in the beginning of Unleashed

[@DanteCore01]

@@andrebabani7152 No limits fallacy

[@no_0riginality937]

@@WrongJoke06Well tbh they did show that the emerald can be damaged or shattered And the games does back it up with Knuckles shattering the master emerald in SA2 and them being grinded into a power source in Sonic battle

[@no_0riginality937]

@@acasual1320Also now that you mentioned it It did seem like they overlooked his Durability and versatility but tbh I’m not gonna give too much flack to them since they did work hard on this episdoe

[@9for1gaming6]

Sooooooo good!!! This episode was amazing. I can tell the team poured their entire heart and soul into this, and I think it turned out fantastically. My new favorite sprite episode of the show, amazing job everyone!!!!

[@flaremawile726]

26:58 This pose remiends me of the panel of Archie Sonic when he gets angry when Eggman said “Your at your limit” and I love it.

[@Scouthedog1]

You guys really did your homework on this one. Feels like I got a full crash course in the character's history good job. And the fight was super awesome as well great animation I love how it turned into a team fight at some point as well. And I really liked how you didn't go for him using his super form which is in every animation and went for the lesser used Caliburn Golden knight form. was A nice change up. Great job guys as per usual

[@charsonic1771]

Nice to see you here and I agree

[@thegreatestever913]

Ima just say 1 thing about the homework comment...Fox's first Arwing survived a black hole...ink himself showed this in the original fight but he made Sonic's tiny black hole destroy like 5 Arwings

[@Pyrothememelord]

I know I said this in the live chat but you were a major part of my childhood,and you,death battle,smash bracket and other shows have inspired me to try to get me into drawing and animation,even if I kind of suck at it. Keep being awesome dude

[@rockingpox2274]

They did their homework and then contradicted their own research with the result

[@Scouthedog1]

@@Pyrothememelord Awww That's so nice to hear man keep at it and eventually you'll get better I suck at animation first so is just something you need to work on. And in time you'll get a good.

[@thekrakenexperiment280]

A great animation and a really interesting analysis. It's cool to see how much this team has grown in such a short amount of time.

[@matthewbaddams2302]

I have to say I admire how you guys avoid characters taking the win through just raw power in both here and in Link vs Ridley. Most animations here on KZbin escalate using powerups in a sort of DBZ style while your animations focus more on versatilty and how the characters' personalities and general approach to battle would effect their strategies.

[@Theagentofchaos-r5q]

Yeah that’s something death battle usually doesn’t Factor in the fight because they barely ever talk about motivations and morals and this would affect the fight by a mile stone.

[@deroynwaokike4512]

​@@Theagentofchaos-r5qthe only time personality mattered in death battle was gojo vs makima

[@Theagentofchaos-r5q]

@@deroynwaokike4512 yeah

[@zaxstarkaijein]

While I enjoyed the fight and love that Sonic was finally able to snatch the win here (saving me from my anxiety), I feel confused on a lot of the takes they made here, and how they got to them. Stuff like, what's with the durability negation feats, the reason Super Sonic can't use other abilities, and the like?

[@zaxstarkaijein]

As an extra note, I've seen that people were able to find feats like how Emerl can somewhat contain a level of power that could destroy stars, and base Sonic alone had no trouble beating him (feat from Sonic Battle). Even if this power was fading overtime, what's left to say for about 1% of that power still remaining for Emerl to use? Things from the comics could technically be passed over for some extra explanations, like how the power of Chaos *is* considered magic there, and it being moreso an energy that Sonic could use, leading to stuff like how the Rings form a barrier for Sonic, and how Super Sonic can throw out his energy attacks in Frontiers.

[@iheartbacon76]

the reason they said super sonic is less versatile is because the fight needs to be longer

[@WrongJoke06]

​@@andrebabani7152But they act as if Super Sonic is physically incapable of using any of Base Sonic's powers and abilities which straight up isn't true given how there is no canonical evidence to back this up. Super Sonic not being able to use things like the Wisps is most definitely just a gameplay thing rather than actual canon, as is Super Sonic not being able to use the Skills in Generations; the game would be too broken if Super Sonic were to be given the ability to use the Wisps/Skills. Canonicaly though, there's no reason or explanation for Super Sonic being so restricted. I do not see how him going Super suddenly makes him lose all his previous abilities, that simply doesn't make sense.

[@WrongJoke06]

@@andrebabani7152 I doubt Sonic is cocky enough to completely prohibit use of his previous abilities when they're necessary. Normally, I'd get why he wouldn't, but in a situation where they're needed or incredibly useful for that current situation I don't see him going "Meh, don't need em."

[@cds3703]

32:27 wtf, the only 2 beings that could even hurt super sonic were Dark Gaia and Solaris. Their raw power is stronger than what the arwing could ever do to super sonic.

[@GiovaneAstronomo97]

We know it. But it's a show, I did one of Mario vs Sonic with this argoument but ok...

[@axiom6000]

Fax, but remember there ruleset make those feats redundant. But if we apply the story of the games then the Solaris feat would be his best feat.

[@mayborneflower]

There’s at least three other beings that hurt Super Sonic. The first being Eggman’s Big Arms from Sonic 3 (though due to Eggman being the one canonically responsible for the game-breaking glitches on initial release, this could be an outlier). The second one is Egg Salamander from Sonic Rush (a mech used by Eggman and Eggman Nega powered by the Power of the Stars, a primordial cosmic power that holds the Sonic multiverse together); Eggman’s missile barrages knock off rings from Super Sonic while Eggman Nega can rip holes in space-time that collapse into themselves to catch Burning Blaze within. Last one is the Phantom Ruby, though it’s mostly hax than raw power; Phantom King’s charged-up energy ball attacks can hurt Super Sonic while simply touching the jewel itself undid the super form on contact.

[@BonnieFlores]

OMG, Sonic was able to defeat powerful beings by hurting their WEAK POINTS. That doesn't make him much stronger than them, plus the multiversal enemies that the Sonic community mentions are very overrated in terms of power. LOL

[@Jonas-jx3kw]

@@BonnieFlores 🤡

[@ultracommander8368]

My main issue with this is that the emeralds broke, nothing says they can, and nothing says they can”t break, they emeralds also have different attributes then the master emerald,so there wouldn’t be any way for them to break, Super sonic would also resist elemental attacks and many of the R-wings abilities. Super sonic again has also fought beings of much higher magnitudes such as the Egg wizard which had power to effect multiple dimensions, to the point Eggman and Eggman Nega stated it could rewrite multiple dimensions, including Maginary world,which is in the 4th dimension. The Egg salamander was directly stated to be above the chaos emerald and sol emeralds combined, and each have been stated to have/carry infinite power. The only reason super sonic and burning blaze won that fight was “teamwork/friendship” which is a thing that is shown to give a power boost, as seen in forces with double and triple boost as well as sonic heros. Other than that, the fight and animation was amazing, you guys did a great job, and I’m really excited for what’s next.

[@alephnull8463]

play sonic battle

[@pauloestevao8962]

Yeah, even if Sonic wins now, with that analysis he probably will lose the next one

[@solitaria.7773]

🤓

[@lawless7512]

Doesn't they break in sonic battles

[@dragonthunderx3250]

Im sure you know this already by now, but they break in sonic battle

[@dlm292]

I like how for these remakes you take a very different approach to the loss than a lot would think like for Link vs Ridley instead of going Great Deity he uses a creative combo of his equipment to make Ridley vulnerable and for this one instead of Sonic going Super or Hyper and blitzing Fox instead it goes for his Excalibur form and takes Fox out then really good stuff and I can’t wait to see the other remakes coming out soon

[@finaldusk1821]

Having seen the end credits, I now know why you asked us "who other than Joker would make a great Phantom Thief?" in that community poll! Glad to see the scope of your research, and that both fighters were given due respect in this competition! Epic animation, great choreography, solid dialogue (though the voice acting left a bit to be desired at some points), this was an amazing episode overall.

[@smileyfaceproductions7477]

like how this animation took a break from the traditionally hardcore anime-esc fighting that is in the sprite community today in turn for something that seemingly mimics the more 'western Saturday morning cartoon' feeling. It's fight scenes, timing, and even classic-esc rock theme that plays. It's all pretty good! Hope to see more.

[@pippomela]

Damn this animation was perfect to every single detail. Total W for the animators as usual!

[@khalidsaeedali8756]

Ayo how's the super ultimate bro multiversal tree cooking up 😁

[@pippomela]

@@khalidsaeedali8756 pretty good so far thx

[@koraykaymakc5639]

the research was terrible, but the animation was indeed nice

[@charsonic1771]

Hello my friend

[@TeamEmerald3]

This animation was a blast to see, I did expect the ending but man what a ride, the info of both was on point and leaves screwattack in shame, the personalities were on point and overall is a fantastic versus battle

[@MrNeedleM0use]

I don't understand, are you saying Super Sonic can't use his base abilities in his super form? Because he can and in fact those abilities are heightened.

[@Theagentofchaos-r5q]

Super sonic in the games always rams head first into his enemy’s and Sonic isn’t likely to use Super sonic in a situation like this

[@Aigle662frileux]

@@Theagentofchaos-r5q Are you stupid ? Super sonic in frontier can use all his abilities he got in base + chaos control

[@Theagentofchaos-r5q]

@@Aigle662frileux fox is immune to time stop so chaos crontrol does not matter here.

[@Mechalizard_yt1000]

Bluds here

[@magnej1520]

Jeez, didn't expect the ending to be that brutal. I'm happy for my boy Sonic, and Fox did really well too! The analysis was probably one of my favorites you've ever done and the animation was really sick. Amazing rigging, voice acting, track, and overall everything. I loved the tag-team feel this one had, just overall a really epic fight. I can tell you and your team put a ton of effort into this, and I hope you are all happy with how this turned out. I know I am! Overall I'd give this episode a 9/10 for now, nothing I found as outstanding as some of my other favorites, but nothing really major that drags it down. With all that said and done...............I CAN"T TELL YOU HOW HYPED I AM FOR RED VS NESS!!!!!! Trainer is my smash main and while I am 70% sure he will get obliterated, Wario vs Lucas gives me a little hope that Ness isn't as OP as some make him out to be lmao. I'm sure it will be one of if not my new favorite episode, due to sheer bias of course. So excited for Red vs Sans, and its just so awesome to see how far this series has some Ink.

[@breathableair3482]

Wouldn’t really say it was brutal. Check the end of the video for context.

[@magnej1520]

@@breathableair3482 Yeah I started to write the first part as the video was ending and just didn't feel like editing it tbh

[@xxmurderer7xx287]

Good video, but your argument on Super Sonic being less effective than base Sonic is something I highly disagree on. I think Sonic Frontiers already tells us that Super Sonic can in fact do everything Base Sonic can do, but better

[@mayborneflower]

More to the point, they neglected the fact that Sonic can use Chaos Control off even a fake Chaos Emerald. So what’s stopping him from halting time to dismantle an Arwing by hand or bending space to make it crash? Hell, a couple Chaos Emerald shards or some spare Chaos Drives should do the trick. Not to mention that the old game Sonic Blast establishes that Sonic (… & Knuckles) can produce 99 Rings out of nothing with a single Chaos Emerald, on top of the Cyloop shenanigans from Sonic Frontiers. Meaning that Sonic is a lot more liable to gain rings much faster than Fox could ever deplete them if we’re going that route.

[@mayborneflower]

@@floatingf8783 You didn’t counter the point about bending space, to teleport the Arwin into a star or black hole. Okay, too far. Wings phased partway into a mountain seems more apt.

[@mayborneflower]

@joseacassio4164 We really don’t need to take it that far. The Smash Bracket guys made a point of incorporating Sonic X into their analysis. The same Sonic X where Sonic casual jumped around scientifically accurate lasers already fired while trained on him, and where Super Sonic busted up a space armada across interstellar distances during his battle with Dark Oak (which, granted, he lost but still). 0.02c my ass.

[@masterplanner2364]

Never did I think the spiderverse intro would fit so well with sonic.

[@MechaZyko]

Beautiful analysis, animation and rundown. These retouches of sonic and fox make me even more excited for when megaman vs mario happens again, need see the mushroom muncher show off more then did in the original, win or lose im so looking forward to it.

[@sirsams552]

I honestly feel like sonic was extremely low balled here, when base sonic has moved faster than light at multiple points in the series and it’s been made a clear point that he can’t go at max speed all the time because he’d harm the environment around him. Sonic’s durability also feels needed in base as it surviving a black whole after destroying the Nega-wisp armor (which he also outran for an extended period of time putting him at FTL speeds in base) I also don’t understand how fox’s gun could break the Emeralds. Using knuckles as an example removes the context of that scene. Knuckles is the guardian of the Master Emerald and also has many powers associated with the emeralds. He was able to use said power to break apart the Master Emerald. Something only he, and chaos have been able to do, and Chaos is a literal god of destruction. I like the animation and the personality put into both characters but it really is just a stomp in Sonic’s favor.

[@shonenbois]

I really love that Spiderverse intro for Sonic it was really creative/way past cool!🔥

[@DalkanoMudDrip]

The use of the gems from 06, time break from secret rings and Excalibur Sonic from Black Knight almost brought a tear to my eyes, that was genuinely impressive and amazing, wonderful job Ink, and keep up the great work Also, thanks for giving silver a little bit of screen time, he's my favourite character in Sonic so it was nice seeing him in this animation

[@ethanhutchins4769]

I like how this series went from not having any lore to having a lot of lore

[@Doghero780]

Yeesh this was well done. Not sure I agree with your opinion on super sonic but aside from that. Plot, characterization, and choreography was on point!

[@STannoyed]

26:01 I appreciate allot of sonic va's officel or fan made. but it's the one's that can capture both his positivity and ANGER through emotion like this is what reminds me why i like the character and shows that he's not just the nice calm cool guy, he's short tempered and has an attitude. but most media doesn't depict that side of him anymore, especially the times where he does get mad but shrugs off his frustration and acts like nothing happened. Relying on his positive and smug side instead of just balancing them both out.

[@Parris807]

That Spiderverse reference was god tier and the episode in general was just beautiful great job to everyone on the team

[@JAZZSEVENCODED]

where do you see it at

[@Parris807]

@@JAZZSEVENCODED it was at the start of Sonic’s analysis

[@JAZZSEVENCODED]

Now I see it now

[@Noobuto-1]

Super Smash Flash 2 was such a good flash game as a kid.

[@rickalbuquerque595]

Great video. Minor nitpick here, but it wasn't mentioned that Super Sonic has taken hits from The End, who claims to be capable of destroying stars (and we also see it destroying a planet)

[@g.masterlordoftheg-force4770]

Surviving Solaris is more impressive than that, considering it destroyed existence by just standing still.

[@truespeed8699]

​​@@g.masterlordoftheg-force4770 the rules of the smash bracket don't use statements and the feats needs to be measured which solaris can't be measured

[@g.masterlordoftheg-force4770]

@@truespeed8699 It wasn’t just a statement though. Just look at the area where you fight the boss. It’s just nothing. The battle with Solaris took place in a void because there was nothing left. And still, he has other feats. Such as beating Emerl in a fight in Sonic Battle. Eggman blew up multiple stars with the Final Egg Blaster, Emerl absorbed that power, and then went insane. Sonic still beat him in seconds.

[@truespeed8699]

@@g.masterlordoftheg-force4770 that one doesn't show the stars being destroyed because of the technical limitations or something so it's still a statement. Also it's still can't be measured since it destroyes everything meaning space and time. Which can't be measured since it's an entire dimensional tier above our own

[@g.masterlordoftheg-force4770]

@@truespeed8699 But even if it wasn’t shown, it happened. Eggman saw it happen, and Emerl saw it too. Only thing unknown is how many stars or their size. All we know is that it was multiple stars. That’s it. Let’s not forget that Emerl also clearly reacted to the energy. As for the Solaris thing, even if we can’t measure it, we do know one thing. Super forms have survived something that can end the universe. I don’t need math to know that’s impressive. And logically, they should be capable of surviving things that are not strong enough to end the universe.

[@joshuahughes3377]

Wow, this honestly was definitely/very interesting to say the least. At the end of Fox's analysis, I felt pretty bad for him at first, But after he made up with Crystal and his friends and saved the universe, I felt happy for him then. Also this animation was definitely, in Sonic's own words, "Way past cool!", And it definitely had me on the ropes, that and the Post-Analysis did. Even though it may or may not have been a simulation, It wasn't just a fight, it was a war, Which was another thing that made it great. Overall, this rematch was definitely worth it And I did love it all. And it did make me realize that Sonic and Fox are actually a bit similar in at least a few ways as well. So, again, worth the wait, loved it. Great job, well done. Thank you, Smash Bracket, very cool.

[@xenozades]

Spoilers for da fight Cool fight, glad to see Sonic take the dub. A few questions tho: - Why is 'one-shot' or 'one hit kill' weapons/abilities taken at face value when 'invincible' or 'invulnerable' abilities are only taken at their max durability? If the rationale is that nothing is invincible and that everything in the verse that has stood up to a specific ability is simply less than said ability's durability, couldn't the same be said for 'one-shot' skills? Operating under the same logic, 'one shot' skills should only be as strong as the most durable thing it's defeated, and shouldn't be considered hax. The only move Fox would have that could beat Super Sonic in that scenario is the spinning thing, which you mention he has to travel in a straight line across the Solar System to accomplish. - Even if Fox decided to try to destroy the emeralds (which contextually is a little meta considering that he shouldn't even know if the emeralds are going to help Sonic OR if he could/should destroy them), couldn't he restore them via chaos control? We see him do something similar in Sonic Adventure when he uses his positive energy to restore the power of the chaos emeralds. Notably, Knuckles is in the exact same scene (and is a good person with friends, just like Sonic), but he encouraged Sonic to fix the emeralds instead of doing it himself. That would insinuate that Sonic is at least as effective at doing this kind of thing as he is, and Knuckles fixed the master emerald. Somewhat shaky reasoning, but it falls in line with how Sonic abilities typically operate. - If base Sonic can already one shot the arwing, shouldn't Super Sonic, who is much faster and stronger than base Sonic, be able to end the fight pretty quickly and take out all 13 of Fox's arwings before Fox could do anything? Especially given that Super Sonic is capable of more long range fighting than before with his abilities from Sonic Frontiers. I especially want to call attention to saying that "Super Sonic would bash the arwing over and over and take himself out of the fight" when y'all mentioned earlier that base Sonic could take it out in one blow. - Another small thing but given that lava, space, and other extremely dangerous extremes can't damage Super Sonic, I'm a little surprised that absolute zero is where Super Sonic's durability would cap out at according to you guys. Especially considering how base Sonic can already deal with being frozen as he does in Sonic X, Sonic 3, Sonic Mania, etc. - Also, there's a very clear time period between the time that Fox's ships are destroyed and the formation of a new one. If we're applying a time period for Sonic to turn Super, then why isn't the same time period thing used with Fox's arwings? - Outside of wisps, as they are transformations, most of Sonic's kit is still accessible while in Super Sonic - so couldn't he use them while Super to win if he sees that things are going downhill? Also, Super Sonic can time stop, so I'm a little confused at where the idea that Fox can also use time stop is a notable advantage vs. Super? Also, SS could just use a wisp and then transform back into Super, but I digress. - Lastly, Sonic (and by extension Super Sonic) should be way faster than light. You're probably going to hear this a LOT, so I apologise lol, but a simple explanation I have for this is that Sonic outran a cyan wisp, who is confirmed FTL. Also surprised at the lack of Solaris scaling, as harming a 5D being should probably count for something, but I digress (again lol). Sonic is also faster than the Light Speed Attack in Unleashed, which you can check using the SPD gauge. These are all just examples outside of the multiple statements from various official sources that claim he's FTL, but I figure y'all probably don't give much weight to them - just figured I'd bring it up regardless. Small tangent, but in a similar vein to speed it isn't unfeasible to say that Super Sonic could reach verse-level destruction capabilities given him beating the Egg Wizard and having his own attacks be stronger than Solaris's reflected attacks. Anyway, if y'all ever make a Q&A and/or followup to this, I'd like to see a few of these questions answered if y'all have the time to. Mostly only spoke about Sonic since I know him the most, but please feel free to correct me if I got anything wrong about Fox in my questions. I imagine y'all already have your hands full with all of the questions concerning Sonic/SS scaling to the likes of Merlina/Alf Wala-whatever/Infinite/Solaris/Time Eater/etc. lol, so I'll call it here. Thanks for the awesome video!

[@GiovaneAstronomo97]

Hey Mr.Einstein this is a Show , we know already all the stuff but enjoy the show.

[@xenozades]

@@GiovaneAstronomo97 This is like half of the point of the show lol, they spent months doing genuine research for this. I think its fair for me to ask a few questions, though they ofc aren't required to answer.

[@GiovaneAstronomo97]

@@xenozades ah sure

[@freddyd1783]

The only disagreement I have is the difference between being frozen and absolute zero is easily worse than relaxing in the snow and your blood boiling from the air temperature. Still, I agree abs zero shouldnt effect super sonic. Otherwise agreed.

[@playerback7722]

Good researcg

[@necrostar0248]

That was amazing! I loved every minute of it. Sure I think some things could've been done differently, but goddamn I am not complaining over minor nitpicks, this has heart and soul in it. Amazing job to everyone in the team, and boy, am I excited for the next one.

[@unsasakiconsombrero6948]

Well... Incineroar and Mewtwo got stomped

[@litessbu]

@@unsasakiconsombrero6948 I’m not sure if it’s only the Pokémon we see in Smash or every Pokémon on red’s team. Granted that would cause some issues like if he goes against Pikachu somewhere along the line and Red also has Pikachu. The Lucas analysis really would help us gauge Ness’s power, since the are similar(I think, haven’t played to game), and he lost to Wario(although it was extremely close). Red is also a master strategist, which very much matters.

[@Just_Dokja]

“Close matchup” my ass mate

[@cirnosnumberfan6449]

I don't entirely agree with certain things said on Sonic's part, I feel some things did got downplayed a bit, like his invulnerability in Super form, but that was a cool fight nonetheless.

They were downplayed a lot.

[@BonnieFlores]

​@???? Bruh, How can you tell you don't know Fox's capabilities and his weapons/tools, lol

[@100organicfreshmemes5]

The scene going from Krystal with the sexy saxophone at 20:26 to Andross' undulating face is probably one of the most unintentionally funny things I've ever seen.

[@loukmjl6083]

Amazing episode. While I still love the og episode, this one is an improvement on every thing. Especially learning even more about foxes history. Over all a 9.5/10. Everyone involved in smash bracket is super talented and committed.

[@omegaaklx303]

i give it an 8.5 (fox analysis and animation carried) def not as good to eat pit vs Samus or link vs ridley's dust.

[@lucariboi1960]

Can tell this was a real passion project, great job!

[@cj_bluethunder]

I should probably mention. In Sonic Colors DS, which is canon in terms of information, Sonic says that the speed of light is EASY for him.

I agree with sonic being light speed but not colors ds being cannon to the main line series. What I believe is that there is a good future timeline and a bad future timeline. The bad future is the sonic frontiers one and the good future is the sonic colors ds sonic generations ds one.

[@cj_bluethunder]

@ dude. Sega themselves have said that EVERYTHING in the games is canon. And they’re even trying to make a more connected universe, so even things like Sonic Prime are canon. Also, the IDW are canon since Frontiers mentions multiple characters from them. Although there are things that won’t ever be canon like the Archie comics or the older shows.

[@manuelkingue5249]

​@sonic colors ds is canon because the wisp of the ds version (burst and void) sonic in end cutscene of the wii version and generation ds is also canon

[@RackerTheRascalMashup]

Sonic colors ds is the only exception in terms of mobile ports, it's the only one that's canon

[@thegrandxbunny2073]

No matter who won this fight, one force would remain; THE EIGHTY YEAR MORTGAGE!

[@themightyman4230]

I personally agree with the outcome I disagree with some of the stats like the speed of sonic, the Cyan Laser wisp is ftl and sonic can out pace it and remember he did restore time and space with his speed in generations when everything was white space

[@holymystic4490]

One thing I wish I would have mentioned before if I haven't already is the brilliant use of the starlink technology within the fight. How fox in this combat scenario was using them so fluently and strategically was extremely pawsome!!!! I'm actually glad you guys implemented that into the fight because it was so fun to watch and knowing Fox and his tactical leadership would know how to use them rather fluently and certain combat scenarios even if he was panicked he would do what he could with what he had. I know I'm commenting a lot on this fight and I hope it ain't too much but I once again got to say, congratulations on this epic animation🎉 Always excited to see future Star Fox and even Zelda related fights. though I am curious about one thing, out of all of the Star Fox games which one is your particular fav and why?

[@xraenon1664]

Gotta say, was not expecting a Black Knight reference to be the deciding factor

[@disqord3416]

I don’t remember the emeralds being that fragile to attacks.. But really cool fight and breakdown. I could see there was a lot of heart put into this. Well done

[@22kingdomheartsfan]

I don't think they would be to simple lasers, and Sonic should have transformed before they even hit in my opinion. But Knuckles in his base form did shatter the Master Emerald with one hit.

[@slasharrowthetimetraveling]

@@22kingdomheartsfan I think the knuckles braking the master emerald thing is because he is more connected to chaos energy

[@22kingdomheartsfan]

@RooByrne Sure he's strong, but strong enough to break an object that can basically tell the Emeralds to shut off, in his base state? Unless you go by that outlier feat of him knocking the Super out of Sonic.

[@jaredwong-bynoe2750]

@@22kingdomheartsfan actually it isn’t an outlier. Remember knuckles is connected with the master emerald thus he would be able to easily shatter or knock super sonic out of his state

[@vegitoblue4601]

Also knuckles has been stated that his strength is the equivalent to sonics speed which can be infinite or immeasurable speed so it makes sense that knuckles can shatter it or the fact hes the guardian

[@Plushimator]

This was easily the best episode of the show, disappointed my 4th main lost? Of course. Do I discount this absolute beast of a video? Hell no! It's amazing!

[@MesozoicLad]

I was thinking, Sonic can blitz Fox before he could even get in his Arwing. And that';s true. Right?

[@AgentDuk]

I thank the great KZbin recommendations for blessing me with the most entertaining animations I’ve seen in years.

[@Meta-Wah]

I get the ending, but what happened to those small creatures that could revive fox for 9 times or something? Great episode regardless

[@Meta-Wah]

@@floatingf8783 But it sonic could use the chaos, then what differentiates the two cute revival beings?

[@khalidsaeedali8756]

​@@Meta-Wah one did die the other didn't

[@foxshock5571]

​@@floatingf8783 I'm actually glad to see Fox is still alive. Sad that he lost as he's my favorite character than Sonic, though I knew Sonic would win, at least he's still alive.

[@CodeNameMoniker]

So the characters are aware they're in a bracket, but their personalities will still affect to what lengths they'll go to get the win (ie Sonic preferring nonlethal methods or to tease his opponent even when he could probably blitz most of the cast before they can move). Hoping villains will get a bit of an edge here because of their willingness to win at any cost and finally have their time to shine, even though they canonically lose to their heroes. With all the story stuff happening in the background it's less clear that this is a tournament that the characters are aware they're in, but it does make for a cinematic experience. Very interesting analysis too, great work!

[@goodolnoahYT]

Analysis was great! I loved how you guys included tons of their arsenals! The fight also has to be one of my favorite Sonic sprite fights, since he uses lots of his arsenal! Super unique fight and amazing analysis and breakdowns!

[@charsonic1771]

This was an awesome battle and I really like the animation even the voice acting as well

[@charsonic1771]

I’ve even reacted to this battle

[@sonicsaiyan07]

While I agree with the results, the reasoning still feels finicky. Your analysis of Super Sonic devolving to ramming attacks for example is moot because whatever Sonic can do in base form he can still do in his Super Form (and its not something that was JUST established in Frontiers either) so any option Sonic has in base he STILL has in Super Form, it just becomes stronger (plus he potentially gains more options through Chaos Energy).

[@fanmadeproductions2400]

Love how this went from a 1v1 to a team match for a moment

[@Raven_Fable]

This was actually a great fight

[@therealmrarchive]

Update: In sonic unleashed sonic runs 9 times faster than light speed in base. So Fox never stood a chance Honestly I wasn’t to sure about Fox destroying the emeralds since sonic hadn’t really used any of his power ups before and it almost seemed like you were just gonna give Fox plot amour. But it was fun watching sonic use the wisps and Excalibur to his advantage. (Also one small detail you got wrong. Base Sonic has surpassed the speed of light even without the light speed dash shoes. See Sonic colours for the DS)

[@axiom6000]

They know that statement in the DS exist, they don’t take it into account because it’s not a feat. I’m also pretty sure they think the statement is vague.

[@MrKing-he3eo]

​@@axiom6000There's still plenty of other times where he's had ftl feats and statements so it ultimately doesn't matter.

[@axiom6000]

@@MrKing-he3eo Again, they don’t value statements even when they come from credible sources(aka not the characters)

[@MrKing-he3eo]

@@axiom6000 Statements are statements. The writers wrote the characters to say them. That's like saying the grand priest from dragon ball isn't above whis because its only been stated. If they want to do actual research and try to be fair you have to evaluate everything. Not just cherry pick the ones you want to use. Again like I said there's plenty of statements including non character ones even though they're just as important. It's clear that they lowballed sonic. Good animation but analysis isn't as accurate as it should be.

[@axiom6000]

@@MrKing-he3eo Yeah, I agree, just for a different reason. If there’s reason to believe a character is lying or being hyperbolic then we shouldn’t take their statements into account. But if there’s no reason for the character to lie(for example the fate of the world is on the line) and they have shown to be an expert on the topic, we should trust them. Their rule on statements is silly, and their lightspeed criteria is silly, but hey, what can I do?

[@jaydonamazing8347]

the downplay on sonic was insane gonna casually ignore his feat in generation and CD of him being faster than time

[@dlm292]

26:03 found the obligatory Kirby getting hurt scene in this fight, your welcome everyone

[@dishierbongo27gaming95]

I love how this video gives more recognition of Shadow's jet boots & that he can literally fly then SEGA

[@Ben10killer]

This is one of my second favorite Sprite battle channels aside from Death battle

[@Jstarredchaos]

This is like the most in depth fight analysis I ever heard. But it’s a good thing. Some fights just aren’t as straight forward and lots of different scenarios need to be addressed. Another thing going In sonic’s favor is the fact that he can easily reflect projectiles both in base form and super form since fox obviously uses a lot of projectiles. I know reflecting projectiles was brought up for sonic but I don’t think it was brought up as a major benefit against fox’s common arsenal

[@Screen_solar]

Nobody: Super sonic literally taking down gods, titans, multiverse destroying entities, time eaters, and more: 🍷 🗿 Nobody again: Base sonic outrunning a black hole, beating a chaos god, falling from space without even a scratch, destroying giant robots and more: 🍷 🗿

[@thegreatestever913]

Sonic hasn't beaten Multiversal enemies bruh. And everything u just named Fox has feats of as well

[@Screen_solar]

@@thegreatestever913 Solaris from sonic 2006

[@thegreatestever913]

@@Screen_solar show me evidence he's multiversal

[@Screen_solar]

@@thegreatestever913 kzbin.info/www/bejne/qISviYKFeNppb8ksi=ZoxlB8Jf2ShPNDdk

[@Screen_solar]

@@thegreatestever913 also let’s not forget the fact sonic is constantly growing as said in sonic forces and even more proven when in sonic adventure 1 he had to go super to beat perfect chaos and in generations he did it in his base form therefor sonic is way stronger now that when he beat Solaris

[@francisnguyen6349]

Congrats, bro! I love this videos about Sonic the Hedgehog and Star Fox McCloud. 😊

[@skullkid-kazooie8277]

Yeah, I agree with these results a lot more. There’s already 2 other star fox characters, and Sonics incredible interesting. Plus, he has so many options, it only makes sense he won.

[@thegreatestever913]

What does Wolf and Falco have to do with this? They're not even the main characters and Fox has beaten both of them

[@TanakaMoon]

To those who were harassing Sonic fans because [insert prediction of who would win here], let's sit back and watch the video. We can see who actually wins, The Greatest Ever!

[@thegreatestever913]

Look at Fox's stats compared to Wolf's stats and tell me again Sonic won "fair and square"...Wolf was scaled far stronger and faster than Sonic and Fox beat Wolf's entire team by himself in Star Fox Zero...ink didn't have integrity going into this battle so enjoy your catered victory lol

[@thegreatestever913]

Bruh scaled Sonic to Planetary bcuz of Sonic X episode 78 even tho 1 Shadow literally helped and protected sonic and 2 that planet was smaller than a moon

[@JakeThehedgehog-m1x]

31:50 i feel like you are downplaying super sonic...you would think McCloud with his gadget and planes would pose super sonic a challenge but that's where you are wrong here...this is the same super sonic that can take down solaris the entity that exist in In past, present and future snd destroy timelines and the time itself will collapse and destroy infinite universes so it's pretty much straight forward a 5D Level threat and above Solaris it's the end so eho can pretty much one-shot McCloud's spaceships as super sonic he can destroy his spaceships or any robots that Matter very easily and he's invincible too in super form the only reason he couldn't beat the titan with ease and pose hik a challenge it's because the titans are powered by the chaos emeralds if you looked at the cutscenes of sonic frontiers it made it clear the titans were Poweres by emeralds so it explains why they could pose a challenge to super sonic.

[@TheBlazingBronzeBro]

Honestly, I'm glad Sonic won. Sure, I was worried for a bit when I heard Fox's analysis, but I Sonic would prevail. Though, while I didn't expect things like other forms besides super and hyper, the mass amount of power ups and abilities, the emeralds getting destroyed, and the friends joining for both sides this is still amazing. Honesty, I'm glad the other forms got some recognition. Though to be real I don't expect Sonic to win or get that far past 3rd, 4th, or 5th round, tbh though if he does, that'll be amazing. Keep up the good work. I can't wait for the next fight.

[@MateoRomero-tr4qk]

Love this channel

[@SmashBracket]

You're a real one

[@joshrd_1264]

the fact you used excalibur as the final shot is perfect

[@TwiMil2008]

Did they really use RINGS, a literal game mechanic for research?

[@thegreatestever913]

💀, yes by that logic Fox's rings should've been included. I'm expecting Fox to work his way back to the top lol

[@Brudda78]

Rings aren't even a "game mechanic" yes, the rings are canon in sonics universe.

[@thegreatestever913]

@@Brudda78 it's a game mechanic just like Kirby's mini game of hitting a meteor 9999 lightyears away. Sonic in his world isn't casually collecting 100+ gold rings reviving himself. Just like Fox isn't going around flying thru rings restoring his armor. It's a game mechanic for players to get health just like Kratos from GOW opening green chest for health and getting red orbs for upgrades

[@Brudda78]

@@thegreatestever913 rings are represented in the idw comics and the movies, since the comics are now canon its true.

[@thegreatestever913]

@@Brudda78 yeahhh no

[@Electro777]

Cool!

[@holymystic4490]

came back to watch the animation again, and even the second time around it is an epic party of pure speed and action😊

[@DragonKingMadaraUchiha]

This video is completely inaccurate. Sonic stomps the Star Fox Verse with ease. You guys did no research at all.

[@247_______]

at this point, I don’t even care about who wins between Sonic and Fox anymore. but the way how they research Sonic and nerfed him is just so hilarious they barely scaled him to planetary in super form and they scaled his base form to 300 times the speed of sound lol I mean look, I know that Sonic isn’t allowed to be scaled to universal or multiversal in this show because of the rule set from this show and that’s fair game but like still Just… They even showed a clip from Sonic prime where he was about to shatter the universe If there not gonna scale Sonic to universal based on that clip than what’s the point of even showing that sonic prime clip in the video in the first place?

[@Hylianhero0418]

I loved every single part of this video. It was fascinating to learn the backstory of fox and sonic, and the animating is fantastic! Bravo!

[@masedaace5473]

As cool as it was to see Excalibur Sonic, I'm pretty sure that's not standard equipment for him.

[@low-key-tony]

Peak?! Sonic just pulls up with the Frontiers scaling & takes the W!!!

[@playerback7722]

Yep

[@RineYFD]

Even before Frontiers Sonic was already pretty busted. Now Frontiers has put Sonic in a whole other league.

[@CaptBlock]

This is like my 4th time watching this fight and I just now notice the Banjo constellation (from Yoshi vs Banjo) at the beginning

[@mr.kingkayyy7401]

Good on Fox for not letting his opponent transform before attacking.

[@DarktoLight561]

But at what cost?

[@sakuraitenryuu]

I don't think that's how Chaos Emeralds works.

[@christopherb.5797]

Even though emeralds don't take a long time for him to transform. LOL!!!

[@byronlyons3548]

@@sakuraitenryuu Apparently, and surprisingly, they do. As shown in Sonic Battle.

[@orphic-3766]

​@@byronlyons3548 Sonic never transformed in Sonic Battle, He beat Emerl the Gizoid with all seven in less than 30 seconds. I don't think Sonic even needed to bust out the emeralds to begin with, his arsenal was already powerful enough and far wider than Fox's.

[@josephtpg7329]

Wasn't expecting Sonic to win, so I came into this battle expecting him to lose. I'm glad he won! I absolutely loved this animation, both characters felt very in character during this fight! Fox breaking the chaos emeralds to force Sonic out of super disappointed me at first because I thought that meant it'd be a regular fight now. Pulling out Caliburn surprised me and hyped me up. My only nitpick is that I wanted to see some more of Sonic's combat and abilities. Fox's combat was great, but Sonic mainly felt like he was getting thrown around all match until he used the wisps and Caliburn. The Caliburn sequence felt a bit short too. Other than that, I loved the animation. Great work as always!

[@stephaniejohnson5361]

Bro what how is this even close. Its a light speed hedgehog vs a fox with a gun

[@playerback7722]

Also enhanced strength and fight skills against master martial artist

[@josephtpg7329]

Getting a bit of heat, but did nobody pay attention when Smash Bracket said it was extremely close? I’m justified for not expecting Sonic to win, because I also expected Fox to lose for a period of time too. I was unsure of who would win, because the battle was a close matchup.

[@thegreatestever913]

@@stephaniejohnson5361 u do know Fox is mftl right

[@rape_is_cool8076]

​@Dafuck Shhhhhhh......

[@iblisdoomsong7994]

Having watched this and then the original video again, I get the feeling that a lot of people bullied SB into letting Sonic win versus actual canonical merit. Even now as I look at these comments everyone is talking about Sonic feats drenched in recency bias while no one is acknowledging the batshit things Fox can do. IMO the fight should have ended at 27:26 because he neutralized the greatest advantage Sonic had over Fox--speed. Furthermore, while pulling from Wisp powers is probably something Sonic could do on the regular (though unlikely as the only ones we see him use outside of colors is the boost one), abilities from the storybook series of games (namely Time Break and Excalibur form) are entirely inaccessible to Sonic outside of the storybook world. That was the whole point of those games was to be separate adventures from the mainline series. So unless Fox somehow shoots him into those storybook worlds he couldn't pull from that ability pool. I could get into more specifics but at the end of the day, the reason the community won't accept Sonic losing is because they are not ready/willing to even acknowledge any of the feats or calcs Fox has. Its like a science versus magic debate where you want the more fantastic elements to beat out the hard facts (especially when comparing the Arwing to Super Sonic). That said, I am much more of a Sonic fan then I am a Starfox guy, and I can highly appreciate BOTH animations for what they set out to do. I would just challenge people to think more critically when the team has put in as much work as they have performing research.

[@yagirlmayalazarus6713]

Or maybe Sonic just had better feats. Nothing Fox has fought matches Solaris’ AP, DC, or hax abilities.

[@lbptails2683]

Or it's just that sonic has far better feats than fox. The bracket not allowing sonic kinda sucks, but even then they could have easily gotten sonic speed faster and gave bigger numbers for his feat against Solaris and such.

[@alextheo5171]

Super Sonic both damaged and casually defeated two beings outside time and space, one of which was 4 dimensional and "eats dimensions for lunch". And super form tanked hits from it.

[@PROPLAYEN]

Smash Bracket usually doesn't do scaling

[@Joh-o1r]

Super sonic didn’t take damage, he shot at the emeralds two different targets buddy

[@merrik]

honestly this is the most interesting "vs Sonic" animation i've seen, never seen a fight where destroying the emeralds was considered

[@The-Black-Fang]

Too bad the research for Sonic is abysmal. Based on what they showed for Fox, Sonic would speedblitz and one shot. And he has all the durability he needs to tank all of the power the calcs showed and thensome. Super Sonic isn't less versatile and one Chaos Emerald has infinite power which is high universal without further context which they have to put them much higher. And that's not all.

[@thegreatestever913]

Sure buddy

[@The-Black-Fang]

@@thegreatestever913 I'm serious. And all that is a huge low-ball.

[@thegreatestever913]

@@The-Black-Fang sonic could never speed blitz and 1 shot. Fox has fought 1v3,000 against aliens that are mftl...

[@The-Black-Fang]

@@thegreatestever913 meanwhile Sonic with at least MFTL+ with downplay in base form: Am I a joke to you? Like seriously, have you done any research on Sonic in your life? He's got inaccessible-immessurable speed easy.

[@thegreatestever913]

@@The-Black-Fang "sonic has inaccessible speed in base" *also Sonic; struggling to escape a black hole and needs to be saved by wisps... Stop tryna wank your favorite character, he's not that fast

[@HighZiro]

Naw, Sonic's Intro Is So Amazing Bruh, This Is A Reference To Peter Parker's Intro From Spiderman Into The Spiderverse Bruh. This Was So Perfect ❤😩

[@fatalwaffle1715]

Awesome video!

[@MumboMod]

I am SO EXCITED FOR NESS VS RED!

[@SmashBracket]

It is personally either my #1 or #2 favorite animation so far.

[@MumboMod]

@@SmashBracket no way! you've set the bar so high, now I'm even more hype :) thanks for all the incredible work you do

[@thelogicsonic5980]

@@MumboMod pk fire spam noooooooooooo

[@MumboMod]

@@thelogicsonic5980 literally not a single PK Fire (Ness can't use it in Earthbound). Highly recommend you watch it, really amazing :)

[@thelogicsonic5980]

@@MumboMod ok is the video out?

[@Goziz1]

Damn, the seeding for this tournament is kinda wack. No way we had this intense fight for round 1 of smash bracket

[@ChoppaDgoat]

Great video keep up the good work

[@vito6197]

Dang, kinda was hoping to see Hyper Sonic but it's fine either way. Edit: Also, what happened to Sonic's face in 26:00 ? I am concerned.

[@Jgamer-jk1bp]

Before I say my criticism on the logic of the analysis, I love the animation. It was epic and goofy. However I have some issues with the logic used in the analysis. You said that Sonic was less experienced than Fox. Sure that may be true in direct years, but you fail to accommodate the fact that his combat experience isn't really applicable. Noone he ever fights in his games has anything remotely similar to the fighting style Sonic does and around 70% of Fox's combat experience is dogfighting and shooting down other spaceships than really hand to hand combat. Sonic on the other hand is an expert in dealing with Fox since Fox is very likely going to be in his X-Wing, a spaceship. You know what Sonic has spent most of his life fighting against? War machines and planes very similar to the X-Wing. Due to his opponent being Dr Eggman, fighting technological foes is an automatic given. Fox fighting in his spaceship is just another technological foe for Sonic to beat down. By your logic, a pilot could beat a martial artist because the pilot trained and flew for more years than the martial artist has. Your point that Sonic takes ages to transform is bogus since in most games he simply leaps into the air and turn golden in seconds. Sure in certain cutscenes that may be the case but the majority has Sonic nearly instantly transforms. Moreover he doesn't quite need the emeralds to physically appear? In the 2D games, Sonic just jumps in the air and transforms. Emeralds no where in sight. So the arguement that Fox can just shoot down the emeralds is debatable since there are times Sonic transforms into Super/Hyper Sonic without the emeralds spiralling around him. So while it is correct that Sonic wins but it's not as close as you make it appear.

[@bellattery]

100%

You forgot to mention on how he beat a God who ate dimensions for lunch and how he is over light speed and how he is over multiversal level.

[@Jgamer-jk1bp]

@ This channel doesn't use power scaling, so feats that Sonic doesn't directly do doesn't count by the rules of this channel's Vs debates. Since he doesn't directly destroy or manipulate the multiverse, by this channel's rules he isn't scales to that level of power.

[@bellattery]

@@Jgamer-jk1bp Except they DO right in the middle of the video. Even at the end he stated Sonic was basically impervious to Fox's entire set in base form while his superrform makes this spite were somehow worse versatality wise? and somehow worse than base sonic due to move set? yeah this channel is fun for watching matches but they're terrible on how they do this with rules that're absurd.

[@Jgamer-jk1bp]

@@bellattery No he doesn't but I do agree the argument that Super Sonic is lesser versatile to be a big assumption, just because he doesn't use them doesn't mean he can't. Hell in Sonic Frontiers he literally uses his base form attacks but with the power of his Super Form. So it's simply that he doesn't use his other abilities because he usually doesn't need to.