why are romance books 'cringe'?

[@seriengirl4604]

You forgot by the stereotyps, that the man has a tragic backstory, which is why he only feels hate! 😌

[@ashkchm]

Which I hate because this is always used as a justification for the male characters behavior. Meanwhile the female characters generally have to suck it up and be happy anyway, or else they’re “being a bitch”‼️The lines between our reality and fiction sometimes graze too thin haha

[@cyralamen]

Here I am, making every character regardless of gender have a tragic backstory so they can be assholes to each other before rethinking life decisions and doing this weird ‘character development’ shit

[@amyrajpat5696]

@@cyralamen This is me, or I make them have tragic backstories that affect their outlook on romance and leave them with feelings of inadequacy (sometimes) because they don't think about themselves alone. They question themselves. I don't necessarily give them a tragic backstory to validate hate/toxic outlooks on love. Sometimes, their tragic backstory has nothing to do with romance (sometimes that is the case in romance stories) but I don't like to make them toxic assholes.

[@Thepeanutcollector]

@@amyrajpat5696yesssss yes yes! All of them have trauma, and they’re just all like that

[@mitsume_slay]

I can change him...

[@connorlongaphie]

I read mostly romance books as a man but my wife hates them. I am the guy buying them all

[@camillereadss]

love this!!

[@whiteeaglehapkido]

Love that for you 🩷💜

[@wishfulkelly3669]

you are rare species

[@sketchingfutures1235]

I have never heard of a guy reading romance. Sounds interesting lol

[@connorlongaphie]

@@sketchingfutures1235 lots of us do

[@pendragon2012]

That was quite the image: "Roll my eyes so far back into my head that I can see my own gag reflex." LOL. Nice job, Leonie!

[@JessieWinterspring]

😂 I laugh all of a sudden at that part my son stared at me in shock 😂

[@tal8762]

That was priceless! 😂 I love Leonie’s videos! She’s a jewel!

[@Willow12866]

I personally enjoy romance more as a sub plot, as in, the characters are going through there storylines and fall in love along the way, rather then the entire book dedicated to their love story. Although that doesn't mean I won't try to find a romance book that I truly enjoy :)

[@tinahitsuji]

this!! I really enjoy it when Im reading a book of a different genre with a nice story and two characters that I really like together actually fall in love. That really hits different.

[@detectivedaffodil437]

Omg same !! Then i keep skipping to the romance bits, So that's why i tried actual romance books but didn't enjoy it, the romance just wasn't as compelling for me.

[@blaxkroses4233]

You should 100% try pride and prejudice the romance isn't the main element I would say it has a lot of drama too

[@black-aliss]

Ditto. It's always more enchanting if it seems more incidental, I don't know if it's because the reader doesn't go in with all the romance expectations (which tend to do the heavy lifting, if you think about it). I'm an SFF reader too, and unfortunately whenever I ask for a book with a decent romance in it that's not the focus, substandard romantasy is all I get.

[@valhatan3907]

Same. I don't like romance as main plot, but as sub plot

[@Madeline-ol5wj]

what’s astonishing is i’ve read fanfics that are so much better (in terms of plot, character depth, build up, chemistry, editing, making sure there’s still chemistry AFTER they get together, etc) than actual published books. the romance publishing industry feels like fast fashion: low quality, more money, etc

[@maryamasomewhathuman.7870]

So true! Which makes me think that people being able to self publish anything is really important.

[@thequietdreamer2186]

Absolutely!

[@nohintshere]

and then there's the fanfics that got a fresh coat of paint then were published as books

[@Cherryfxmls]

literally! there are some truly talented writers on ao3 particularly. I remember I read this pic that was just beautiful, the prose was so eloquent and the characterisation was complex and full of depth. The chemistry between the two mcs was absolutely insane and I mean just this quote "in the wake of their impassioned reunion, they dim into shadows of their affection - hesitant and cautious, skirting the edges of each other like wounded beasts." Like that is SUCH a beautiful line. Published romance books however? tiktok popular ones? they barely hit the same. they often lack the depth, the complexity, even the beautiful prose. Most of them just feel like cash grabs that the author will capitalise on because they know TikTok will make their book popular. bonus points if the male love interest is dark haired, morally grey and has a tragic backstory.

[@A350Airways]

@@Cherryfxmls I acknowledge that indie writers (for me, AO3, Royal Road, Wattpad and the like are indie platforms) can do better than traditionally published writers but I always treated indie literature as high-risk, high-reward...

[@BecxReadz]

As a romance reader the cringest thing I find in romance is the dialogue during sex scenes or flirting scenes. 90% of the time I'm yelling....."no one talks like that" its so weird reading dialogue that if I had to listen to people say irl I'd roll my eyes that hard too.

[@emreads]

this lol authors get TOO creative in the areas they dont need to. It can be funny, but (imo) that is pretty rare. Normally this is cringe and weird though

[@whiteraven562]

I read a book that had the hero declare "Copulation is imminent" in the middle of a spicy scene and now it lives rent-free in my head

[@redpanda6497]

Wait, people actually talk when they do that? Why? I'm too asexual to understand things like this.

[@hvbg]

​@@redpanda6497 they talk, usually in short and punchy sentences, to "entice" each other even further, if you know what I mean

[@elisanoro]

​@@redpanda6497i mean, people talk during sex in real life too. Usually not full on sentences since they're too focused on the act but usually stuff to let each other know how they're doing. I usually do talk alot cuz my brain decides thats the best time to have a full on convo lmao. My boy finds it very annoying and a move killer sadly ✊️😔 rip, but its ok 💀🤣🤣

[@rzuue]

What annoys me about the tiny woman and the tall man combo is that the writers clearly don’t know what it actually feels like to be a tiny person next to a very tall one. I am 10 cm shorter than average height among women and 30 cm shorter than average height among men in my country. A tall man here is about 40 cm taller than me which is nearly a third of my height. That is absolutely not a comfortable height difference. I need to take a step back if I want to comfortably look at their faces, rather than towering it feels like I’m standing too close to a wall at times. Like, would you stand 30 cm in front of a wall with your face? I’m not saying it can’t work, I have tall friends, but it doesn’t feel as natural as it does with a person of more similar height. I found myself a boyfriend who is short himself and it is very very comfy like that.

[@whiteeaglehapkido]

I'm so sorry you have had to deal with that. I'm glad you were able to find a partner that is a comfortable height for you. All my love and support for you short cuties 💜🩷🫶

[@szgatigress4226]

As another short person, YES! I agree.

[@ML-cc7gj]

Well, my grandmother was 162cm and grandfather 190cm and they made it work somehow. :) But yeah, I can’t really imagine that either (my grandfather died when my mom was a teen, so never met him).

[@Sadie896]

Totally understand, I'm short and I had a tall boyfriend and things weren't that easy. In books she's short and she turns to her tall man and stares into his eyes and kisses him, whispers something into his ear!.... Not when he's a foot taller than you!

[@ame_vagabonde]

Same, I love it when people are around my height because it's so easy to look them in the eyes! You're literally closer to them.

[@OmarAyusoVA]

Romance books can be amazing the problem is when more of the story is focused on the romance instead of the characters and how they relate to and interact with each other. So much romance is about the act of being in love and not enough about the uniqueness of the characters and how they love each other

[@msdebruin.]

I want to recommend Us by David Nicholls. One of my favorite books. Its literary fiction but all about a relationship and how people connect. It was a bit heavy though.

[@kiczcock]

You nailed it. If the characters aren't interesting I won't find their love story interesting either.

[@kirstendickinson1361]

Wouldn't that be the definition of the genre though, to focus on the romance? Not to say their aren't some amazing romances that do include some great character development, but I'd say you were better describing literary fiction with a romance subplot.

[@frostyantiromantic7910]

Exactly, for us to fall in love with a romance novel we need to know what the characters go through in their life, and then we understand each other better. Books now are more about the act of love.

[@akeveryday5339]

THIS is why so many newer books are so subpar. Most of them are too focused on stuffing in as many tropes and booktok quote-worthy lines as possible. Its hard to truly feel engaged in the romance of two characters who you feel no connection to. Its also why so many people prefer romance as a subplot. The characters individual stories and personalities are explored in depth, makin the slow but eventual romance between them more tasteful.

[@xsiriusxi]

I hate 99% to absolutely LOVE the 1%

[@easypeasyd2478]

Gotta love to hate the 99% tho

[@kkslali]

I love how booktok inspires girls to read - power to them! But something that deeply bothers me is that the quality of romance novels we’re being presented today is atrocious. Romance can be good , but please, if you’re writing actual books don’t let tem be read as fanfics ripped off of AO3

[@AlbinoBlackHole]

You're being mean to AO3 there's some gems on there that would make Colleen Hoover weep with jealousy

[@Space.Panda1805]

@@AlbinoBlackHole Exactlyyy!!

[@kkslali]

@@AlbinoBlackHole I absolutely agree with you! What i mean by that is that, liking it or not, most works on AO3/ Wattpad/any other fanfiction website are amateur content. We should never pay for books that feel amateur- those are professional writers!

[@Space.Panda1805]

@@kkslali and alsoo another thing, they all and big group/team of editors, or people who help them to do a book. Fanfics writters don't have have any help and I found better stories on AO3 than some professional romance writters, it's soo sad 😭

[@quirkyfemmepeach]

Yeah AO3 snobbery is not the way, brilliant writing can be found anywhere as can terrible writing…

[@VioletSaathoff]

I have 0 tolerance for toxic male love interests, and there are a lot of tropes I don't like either, so while I love romance in theory, in practice I hate the vast majority of it 😅

[@starynightmoonshine]

So do i

[@daliblue_]

I'll never understand how is possible there's people who LIKE toxic relationships, like... everything alright there? 😭

[@AudioEpics]

Yes! But toxic females as well. Sometimes I wonder how I am supposed to empathize with the female lead. I often sympathize with the exceptionally patient male who keeps worshipping her no matter how she behaves and would almost like to yell at him: ruuuuuuuuuun! Also, a guy falling for a condescending 11-year-old stuck in the body of an adult super model… Not very credible as a story. And it makes women look bad. 🙂

[@Monalisa-ep6jh]

​@@daliblue_There's a difference between liking toxic relationships in a fantasy vs real life. For example, I often have fantasies of being a subservient wife to a sexy, controlling man but I absolutely seethe with rage when anyone in real life implies that women should be subservient to their husbands

[@julioroblero9140]

​@@AudioEpics what book had this premise of a story if you don't mind telling

[@Magicxerpent]

At 7:21 when you said the most important trait of a male love interest I was immediately like “abusive?”

[@SquamataReptile]

I said the same thing!

[@Josettes]

When it comes to books being realistic I think fantasy and romance are very different. The story should feel realistic WITHIN that world, like yes I can suspend my disbelief and get into a magic world but I need it to all make sense together. Romance authors are claiming to portray our real world, however the things that happen often don't make sense within the limits of that and what we know and experience

[@rellimarual]

Fantasy can be truthful without being realistic because it portrays characters and relationships in a way that feels real, whereas romance can be realistic without being truthful about people and how they relate.

[@AudioEpics]

Exactly! There is a difference between a story not being 'realistic' or not being 'credible'. A romance story, e.g., can lack credibility because no male lead in his right mind would fall for a pretentious, condescending and mentally abusive woman while having a normal, nice and good-looking friends, a social life, stable background and job. A fantasy story can lack credibility if, e.g., they regularly use gunpowder but keep using bows and arrows in battle without a good reason (like the enemy using magnetism to confiscate metal weapons).

[@luisabolado]

yes verisimilitude is CRUCIAL for any work of fiction

[@jamespulver3890]

@@AudioEpics This is such a useful distinction / wording. I've been thinking this forever, about all sorts of genres really. I think it's more of a problem for me when the story is trying to take itself seriously, and wants to be "in our world" with one change or something... I need to not just immediately think "That's just not how that works". The less something is trying to be "realistic", the easier it is for me to take it as "credible". This is much worse in Movies and TV for me than books however. I don't imagine action anywhere near as laughable as some movies / TV does now.

[@shada9324]

romance authors are not claiming to portray our real world what are you waffling about

[@Juliannasstudio]

Also, anyone who cringes at romance should read Jane Austen- p&p is the original rivals to lovers & the characters are fleshed out & relatable

[@Ottolineification]

they were never rivals, get real..

[@nikkisumesh]

Love jane austen

[@poxidog]

I love that book. The edwardian sass is amazing

[@sokokokoko]

@@Ottolineificationshe hated him and he was an ass. Did you read it?

[@mookiess]

@Ottolineification maybe not rivals in the common villian x hero sense but they definitely started out not liking each other and it took a lot for both fo them to break their past negative perceptions of each other. One was too prideful to admit they held feelings, and the other was too prejudiced to think they would ever like them back. It's at the very least, to my knowledge, the book that laid the foundation for enemies to lovers themed books.

[@lizzycorvus5109]

I honestly think that a lot of toxic romance readers/authors have kinks they haven't processed. There are tropes that are super obvious fetish fuel to me, but the readers may well in many cases like education or self-awareness about kinks. Also, Colleen Hoover's popularity is I believe in large part due to being edgy in a way that Middle American conservative women find palatable.

[@imagiguard]

This! I honestly want there to be a video essay on how certain romance tropes and kinks/sexual fantasies are interlinked, but there’s the whole demonetization thing at stake here.

[@darrowofyomama]

Exactly, I’ve noticed that the romance I actually enjoy or tolerate are all by authors who understand the kinks/subjects they talk about and take the time to warn and explain them to the reader in a healthy way

[@squidwardtentacles7144]

@@darrowofyomama Do you have any recs?

[@anonme_]

Do you mind linking the data for the last claim you made? That Colleen Hoover's popularity is I believe in large part due to being edgy in a way that Middle American conservative women find palatable. A lot of females from teenagers to seniors are writing and relishing such books, especially young girls and women in their 20s and so, as per my observation from my time at writing websites. Where did you observe the claim you made? You people have to make everything political.

[@anonme_]

@@seventysix92 Wow. That's your retort? That's the best you could do?? Somebody asks you a question and your response is to put your foot in your mouth on the assumption that you won? I am neither a Hoover fan or American or middle-aged or conservative. But thanks for proving my point. You really are just a moron armed with freedom, internet and anonymity. Just don't be too sure about either of those things. : )

[@Shyngi382]

Sometimes when I read a romance book, I think "this is so bad, I've read fanfics that are better than this". And because of this video, I started wondering why is that. Like the internet is full on bad fanfics but also very good ones. But I think the main reason is about the characters. When you read a fanfic, you usually read and find the stories about characters you already ship. And if the fanfic is lacking the build up, the logic and/or the chemistry, you add them in your mind when you read the story. So maybe a bad story doesn't bother as much. But when it comes to actually published books where you don't know the characters, you need the build up, the logic, the realisticness and the chemisty to actually enjoy the book, the romance in it and the story not to feel cringe.

[@LadyLazarus1027]

it’s also because of the person who is writing it. just because a writer becomes famous doesn’t mean they are geniuses at the art of writing. a lot of people who write fanfiction can showcase a better skill with language than these contemporary romance writers

[@TemplarWarden]

Very true, or indeed reading a particular good fanfic details the characters and relationship in a way that carries over into a ship. Self perpetuating features from one good fanfiction happens a lot.

[@vainpiers]

I think it kinda shows that the publishing industry is a part of the problem. Having your book rejected doesn't mean its bad, it can mean that your book isn't fitting the pre-estabilished template of what they're looking for in a romance.

[@g.n.9075]

After reading the love hypothesis "smut" i stop liking smut. I cringedso much it makes me so uncomfortable that i couldnt read smut for a while

[@enquantoissoleio]

Same here hahahahahahaha

[@Onceuponatime006]

The whole book was absolute *cringe.!!😭😭

[@catalinam36]

I know, right? Sometimes when people recommend Ali Hazelwood's books, I can't take them seriously. I read only two books written by her and it was enough 🤣

[@emacs5261]

Her spreading sunscreen on him and sitting in his lap in front of the whole department were the LAST STRAW for me. Well before the cringy smut. Hated this book

[@Fīshyyyy-b7t]

​@@emacs5261 THIS💀☝🏾 I couldn't take this scene seriously the book wasn't bad but it was just so cringy and I really didn't like Olive 😭

[@margaret7949]

Unfortunately most romance books no matter the genre feel the same in plot. Strangers become lovers but there's always a tragic background, exaggerated drama and a lot intimate scenes like they try to channel 50 shades of grey. Many follow what's popular on the market and don't try quality stories and instead recycle themes already existed in previous romances that make the book bland. Enemies to lovers now feels overused and bland, the romance feels forced with little chemistry or many write about toxic relationships that shouldn't have been romanticised in the first place. I am not referring to all romantic books but now it feels that the good ones need more digging to find them.

[@dixieAQHA]

The third act breakup can be so grating to me. It feels like most of the time if these people were really in love they wouldn't just fly off the handle and break up (and get back together equally fast).

[@AudioEpics]

Agreed!

[@aba_40]

Hey, I need help. I want to read a soft and cute love story without sad stuff (at least not so much). Im currently in difficult moments in my life and all I want is just a good book that would comfort me. Please, if anyone could recommend some stories I'd be very grateful ❤

[@Textilenerd123]

@@aba_40 Howl’s Moving Castle is great and if you like gay romance, The House on the Cerulean Sea is like a big gay warm hug. They both include sad elements but I feel really strongly that these are cozy and sweet above all else

[@aba_40]

@@Textilenerd123 Thank you! I have Howl's Moving Castle in my list already, now I'm going to add the other one. Thanks for the recommendations! :D

[@mohabexpert123]

Hearing her say that the overwhelming majority of her viewers were female made me feel suddenly very alone Lmao

[@rando12349]

we love that you're here with us :)

[@jessieballpk]

we welcome you into the fold

[@camillereadss]

so happy to have you here!

[@Danny-po5vp]

Same I'm a guy who just loves her aesthetic and takes on books. All the male booktubers I've found only do self help or productivity focused content which kinda sucks.

[@Space.Panda1805]

@@Danny-po5vp Hello! I personally see a lot male booktubers focus on Fantasy or Sci-fi 🤔Daniel Greene is all fantasy and Library of a Viking and Bookpilled are into Sci-fi 🖖If I found someone else, I'll add it later Captured in Words, and Gavin Reads It All (fantasy) I don't know your native language, "Arcade's Books" is really funny if you know Spanish. EDIT: LOL me and my one cell brain, I forget I was talking about male booktubers, Arcade is a girl, but I really like her chanel Edit 2: Moon’s Rare Books, Tom Ayling => They show rare and vintage/old books

[@cmm5542]

My problem with most romances is that the 'obstacles' between them are usually all in their heads. I prefer an old Victorian melodrama where the actual relationship is stable but there are EXTERNAL obstacles to them getting together, usually financial (which is actually pretty relevant to today). People claim 'internal conflict' is more compelling, and I cautiously agree, BUT ONLY WHEN IT IS DONE WELL! If I don't buy the MCs 'insecurities', I won't buy that they were a genuine obstacle to the romance I should applaud them for overcoming! Also, I think there should be more romances that COMBINE external and internal conflict for more complex and realistic romantic obstacles. I talk WAY too much about The Cruel Prince, but it was really ideal for me - Jude and Cardan were not just horrible because they were horrible - they lived in a horrible world with horrible circumstances! So there were EXTERNAL obstacles to them being together that they both dealt with poorly, leading to INNER conflict that exacerbated the situation. It's a lot like Pride and Prejudice, actually. I just want a balance of internal and external conflict. All internal makes it seem like the characters should work on THEMSELVES before pursuing a relationship!

[@lemonlord]

I like how you mentioned love theoratically because as someone who's not the biggest fan of contemporary romance i was so surprised by how much i enjoyed it, the main girl was weirdly relatable(even if i did cringe at some of her jokes) and it did help that i kept picturing the love interest as Nanami Kento, they had so much chemistry as well which just made it so much better

[@esbeezs]

picturing him as nanami was the only thing that got me through 😭🤞

[@starynightmoonshine]

Which book?

[@lemonlord]

@@starynightmoonshine love theoretically by Ali Hazelwood, she mentions it at the end of the video

[@msmorbid2903]

I haven't read the book but picturing the male love interest as Nanami is hilarious to me! 😂 seems very fitting from Leo's description (also I love Nanami and will forever be heartbroken about him. You know what maybe I SHOULD read this book after what s2 did to me)

[@lemonlord]

@msmorbid2903 yknow what, absolutely, he was my favorite character and picturing him in this ridiculous romance scenario really healed some of the wounds season 2 left so I'd absolutely recommend it for that specific reason

[@C8itsizzle]

Unpopular opinion I also don’t like when the female lead is overly blunt and rude under the guise of being a boss or being tough I think it just comes off of her being really mean and unlikable, and I also hate in books, when the man is some huge womanizer, but that one little teeny tiny woman, who’s quirky and sweet will change him. I hate that trope, and I will instantly stop reading.

[@javierlopez9789]

Yeah im with you, those tropes belong in the early 2000s and need to stay there permanently

[@hypnoticseptember]

I'm not a book reader, but I hate the "I changed for you" trope because most of the time, the character has no progress of his own or any lessons learnt whatsoever and is only just nice to FL because he couldn't handle the thought of being wrong about her being an easy lay, it makes his feelings towards her seem ingenuine because does he actually see her as a person and recognize the things she does? Or is he just relieved he's still hot sh×t?

[@avinashreji60]

Yeah I just looked at who you subscribe to, you’re definitely some racist pos

[@menochill312]

💯💯💯💯

[@fatimej4286]

Romance books, while unrealistic, introduced me to ideas that were new to me. And consent is one of them (I’m slightly older and I come from a religious background). Nowadays a lot of romance books tackle serious themes and seeing women knowing what they want, finding confidence (yes in bed too) and love is pretty cool. (These things were taboo for a long time). You can also re-live certain emotions and experience new forms of loves through the lens of a character/ characters or are introduced to new ideas about love itself.

[@sinika2860]

I wrote my thesis about the appeal of romance fiction, and this is one of the most important arguments in the genre! It is there to boost women's confidence while creating a safe space (fiction) to try out new things, whether that is highly erotic sex and pleasure (female-centric pleasure, which is still frowned upon by the general society) or just being someone so different to oneself (e.g., a mother turns into this boss-girl attitude woman who does not want kids at all). They don't need to be realistic because that is not the goal of the genre. 😊

[@arifenur8856]

Thank you for this comment. It helped me see things from a new perspective.

[@maggietiong6153]

Love this! I totally agree. There is a lot of discourse in the writing community on how to write consent and keep it sexy. If you go back to the 90s, there is discourse and encouragement to find out how to write condom use into contemporary stories and keep them hot and not preachy while showing responsible sex. Contemporary romance authors often tackle a lot of heavy topics like boundaries, consent, healthy communication. Romance takes a lot of flack for being unrealistic and simple, but it's difficult to maintain the balance of covering relatable topics and also keeping it light and unrealistic enough that readers are still getting the escape they are seeking.

[@goldendiamon]

There is a romantic movie about a woman that knows what she wants like Rose in titanic

[@veronicabaranowski6976]

I don't like 1. Instalove. I want something more realistic or at least more of a connection between the characters before they bang and marry and pop out babies. 2. Toxic love. I watched it growing up firsthand, and growing up in a domestically abusive environment taught me that abusers don't deserve second chances with their victims and usually aren't sorry. Just sorry they suffered consequences. 3. Erotica. I want story. Give me a reason they're fucking like bunnies at the end or else I'm out. 4. If the characters are insufferable, etc, I'm not interested. If they cross a boundary I didn't know I had or one I was aware of, I don't care. They're not something or someone I'm rooting for. Romance is one genre where the characters need to be likeable.

[@AudioEpics]

My biggest turn-offs too. I'm having an especially rough time with the excess erotica without plot and the insufferable characters.

[@LaibaAsimKhan]

I think you'll like the book I'm writing. It does not contain any spice though

[@gameragodzilla]

Scowling, black suit wearing, super tall billionaire? So most romance novel men are Batman?

[@Aymana44]

😂😂😂

[@Adonisius_Kavata]

Funny cause Bruce Wayne isn't even a jackass like these men when he's in billionaire mode. He's rather charismatic and well liked for his personality. It helps throw off suspicions that he could be an actual dark and broody man like Batman.

[@Diana-mu7pc]

OHHHH MY GODDDD when you were about to introduce Jane Eyre I was thinking to myself "What if she just said Jane Eyre" because Jane Eyre is also like one of my top three novels of all time... THANK YOU!!! Charlotte Bronte was RIGHT ABOUT EVERYTHING. It's amazing how many tropes she subverted in that book, that so many modern authors still don't seem eager to flip, especially the part about both of them being canonically unattractive.

[@maraki9261]

Leones deep dives / analysis videos are MY FAVOURITE THINGS EVER

[@ashl_ey]

I remember trying to branch out to other genres and one of those genres was romance. I was never used to reading a book with just romance in it so when I did pick up three books that I got recommended by BookTok I literally went "Nope". I find that I do enjoy romance but it has to have a very specific setting and plot for me to like it. An example of this is when I read Half a Soul by Olivia Atwater which I enjoyed.

[@lucyarana3439]

Half a Soul is sooo good, and I don’t normally read romance either!

[@iiisha864]

It helps a lot when there are elements of other genres

[@sokokokoko]

The summary makes this book sound very interesting. Do you have any more recs?

[@ashl_ey]

@@sokokokoko Other books I’ve read that have romance as a sub plot are Mexican Gothic by Silvia Moreno-Garcia, it’s mostly horror/fantasy/gothic but it does have romance. The Red Palace by June Hur is a murder mystery with some romance. And the last one I’d recommend is The Girl Who Fell Beneath The Sea by Axie Oh, it’s a mythical retelling.

[@sokokokoko]

@@ashl_ey I'll definitely check them out, thanks!

[@lisanne8394]

Her recommendations: 25:30 The brown sister series- Talia Hibbert Emily Henry books (book lovers, beach read, you and me on vacation the very secret society or irregular witches- sangu mandanas Love, theoretically- Ali Hazelwood Jane Eyre- Charlotte Brontë

[@detectivedaffodil437]

I ve read the last book of the brown sisters trilogy and found it cringe

[@SO-vw8nx]

@@detectivedaffodil437same also Book Lovers was so cringe and the plot was so poorly constructed, surprised she even recommended it

[@detectivedaffodil437]

@@SO-vw8nx Yeah book lovers was a snooze fest.

[@stephr5914]

Huh, I'm in a reading funk. Maybe I'll give Jane eyre a reread!

[@Amystudio]

The very secret society of irregular witches is the only “romance book” in this entire video I read and I didn’t like it lol, the first half was so boring, it took me a while to want to continue then it got better but then it had to have that little and completely unnecessary smut and I was so put off by it, it felt like it was put in there because she had to comply with the readers that like that stuff when it was a cute book that didn’t have a need for that. I gave it a 3 and that was being generous.

[@still-reading]

Elizabeth Gaskell's North and South has my idea of a perfect romance - two people who don't understand each other at all grow themselves as they get t o know each other. Of course it may be my favorite book of all time, so I'm partial! I love your deep dive/essay videos. Please keep them coming.

[@krystinareads]

the turtle neck with the plaid is iconic! i always love these deep dives and discussion on genres, tropes, ect

[@luiiiandmovieee]

The ships I love the most in all the books I've read are probably the couples in six of crows (not that it would be a romance book). They have so much chemistry and deep connection, especially Kaz and Inej. They don't even kiss each other but a single look at each other has more meaning than a lot of physical touch in other books. It's actually not important at all how Kaz and Inej look like (even though their style is pretty cool) because their connection isn't build on hotness or whatsoever. I love romance when the the characters fall in love because of personality and deep connection

[@cmm5542]

I wouldn't class Jane Eyre as pure romance, though. It's more of a Bildingsroman abourt Jane's growth as an individual, and there's a lot of serious social reflection. Same goes for Pride and Prejudice and other classics - they were never JUST romances. I think the problems start when someone tries to make romance the whole plot like there is nothing else in life (and this happened in mainstream Victorian melodrama too, of which I have read far too much on Project Gutenberg, just with different tropes). There's a reason not many books are classics. And I think publishers need to STOP forcing authors to write in one definable 'genre', when the best books have ALWAYS been cross-genre, complex, REALISTIC works. Agatha Christie isn't the third-best-seller in the world for writing pure crime. She included romance, social commentary and satire, and even a little bit of sci-fi here and there. THAT'S what elevates her beyond the rest. You want a good romance, it needs to have OTHER genres in it as well. Same with good sci-fi. Or historical fiction. Or political thriller. Or . . . you get my point.

[@cryssyplays9517]

I think part of the reason I dislike a lot of romance books is that the romance seems childish and not well developed. I'm married to the love of my life, and so I know the depth of true love. So many romances are just superficial. I can't but there whole, "wow they're so hot, I'm in love." I don't see too many books demonstrating healthy romances either, which is troubling given that a lot of young women read these books.

[@cmm5542]

Agreed.

[@elliexio6817]

So true. Romance can be so shallow. The number of times i cringed when the female lead just likes someone because "he's handsome," and that's all... like come on

[@stellatsilia]

Please read Emily Wilde's Encyclopaedia of Faeries! (The sequel is out, even better than the first one.) I would really like to hear your take on the romance in that series - it takes the whole "mortal female falls in love with powerful supernatural being" idea and does something original with it, it's the only book of that kind I've found where the power dynamic feels actually balanced and healthy :)

[@romysv]

adding this to my list!

[@19Rena96]

my biggest book disappointment in 2023 lol.

[@stellatsilia]

@wowzersfyi there will be a third book so there is no way of knowing yet how this will play out, but what I meant was that, despite the whole mortal vs (almost) immortal dynamic, the characters are build in such a way that their relationship feels healthy and on equal terms

[@nikolahetn944]

I read 3 romance books this year so far and hands down my favourite was Pride and Prejudice. In fact it's now one of my all time favourites and I'm planning on reading all of Jane Austen's books. However this book isn't that much romance heavy because there is a lot more going on but when there is romance? *swoons* This is one of the most romantic and funny books I've read. After finishing it I immediately wanted to start all over again. Also This is How You Lose the Time War!!! This one is inhumanely romantic (and I mean it literally). Amazing read and another of my all time faves. Highly recommend them both!

[@nikolahetn944]

Also for me cringe in romance books (which actually isn't specific to just romance, it can be in probably any genre, but it's most prominent in romance because love is something very intimate) is that it sometimes lacks subtlety. I can see what the author is trying to do but they're trying too hard to make me feel what they want me to feel and it comes of as mushy or cliche.

[@cmm5542]

​@@nikolahetn944Completely agree.

[@BecxReadz]

I love the unrealistic logic......I read alien and monster romances, unrealistic is what I'm there for 😅

[@hastykia4907]

SAME! more unrealistic logic = more entertainment

[@johnnyritenbaugh1214]

Ice Planet Barbarians am I right?? 🤣

[@BecxReadz]

@johnnyritenbaugh1214 that one didn't do it for me lol

[@sokokokoko]

Any recs?

[@AudioEpics]

I think it can work, as long as it's credible that A would fall in love with B, despite the difficulties.

[@hailey_the_ace_of_hearts4127]

I realized I never read romances when I organized my shelf by genre and I didn’t even have a romance section 💀

[@notationmusical]

Hello fellow aroace.

[@folded_pizza]

​@@notationmusical fr😂

[@gaypopitamogus]

aroace canon event ;D

[@weeb5032]

Same here 😂

[@anna2731]

People are quick to shit on young women and the things they enjoy, but I feel like we over corrected. Now pointing out that many trashy tictoc books are in fact trashy will get you called a misogynist.

[@nevskislake]

To be fair, "trashy" can be viewed as a problematic term because it is not just an assessment of the book itself, but it can also be viewed as an assessment of the people who enjoy that book. The term "trashy" gets thrown around a lot to describe the dark romance subgenre or erotica, and, again, it comes off as knocking the-mostly-women who read those genres. But to your point, we all know it is hard to have a nuanced conversation on social media, sadly.

[@Brittanysplittany]

YES thank you. As a woman, I absolutely hate the victim mentality a lot of ladies have online.

[@IvellScarlett]

@@nevskislake I guess “trashy” isn't exactly a diplomatic or nuanced term for media criticism, but it is how I genuinely feel about many of those books. I think readers should have the resilience to endure other people criticizing the books they enjoy. Even if the criticism is harsh, mean, or even unfair. I feel like readers overidentify with the books they read. Scratch that, people overidentify with the media they consume, be it books, movies, or TV shows. But you are not defined by the media you consume. It is not part of you, but I think people feel like it is. Which is why it hurts and enrages them when someone trashes a piece of media they love.

[@m.jaakkola1707]

​@@nevskislake IMO, trashy is good word to descripe person who unironically gives 5 stars to some of these books tiktok hypes and even recommends them as great reads. There were the days us fanfiction readers were called weirdos and now I see actual published books with writing so bad they wouldn't survive on AO3. It's bizarre and I'm fully convinced people who enjoy that drivel are on the slow side.

[@nevskislake]

@@m.jaakkola1707 - "on the slow side." So...ableism. You are trying to sound clever and superior, but you just said so many unfavorable things about yourself in one paragraph. When you look down on others, remember that you always say more about yourself than the people you are putting down. Grow up!

[@user-qu8zs7vs1x]

I love your essay videos Leonie! I feel like your content is always original while talking about trends and tropes etc that are currently in media discourse. I always learn new things when I watch your content :)

[@vanillaplanifoliae]

for some reason watching videos discussing romance novels always makes me want to try writing one,, like i'm aroace but i could do it. i bet it would be fun :)

[@JAAAY62]

Oh, hey I'm aroace too!! A romance novel by aroace besides Oseman would be fun!

[@pauieeepau]

A bunch of romance webcomics I follow are made by aroace artists/writers :)

[@melemon810]

ayo same!!! I may try my hand at a short story, sounds fun

[@Brittanysplittany]

I want to write one too, but I’m afraid it would get ripped to shreds for views D:

[@vanillaplanifoliae]

@@Brittanysplittany do it anyway! follow your heart! if you write earnestly, i bet your work will find its right audience also if people are mean to you, you can just ignore/block them c:

[@fikratdouk6675]

Fun Fact: in middle eastern countries the men usually who reads more or equally romance novels as women in general this type of genre is very popular in our region but to be fair enough the Arab, Turks and Iranian authors tend to write more realistic stories on comparison with Western ones in my opinion of course

[@RuanMei_SocietyGenius]

Wait, as a woman I never expected to read that. Recommend some novels by both male and female writers ASAP

[@fikratdouk6675]

@@RuanMei_SocietyGenius Ahlam Mousteghanemi, Colette Khoury, Ghada Al Samman

[@RuanMei_SocietyGenius]

@@fikratdouk6675 thanks

[@deethkhl]

I know two people in my life personally that have had an enemies to lovers romance. Great recommendations, Leonie; I see and respect you.

[@cherietanya]

I adore romance books, but today's romance is killing me. Every new book is the same plot with tall rich man falling in love with random happy quirky girl for no reason. I need more depth into characters and story, some challenges, difficulties and problems they're trying to overcome, not the smut and all other spicy things that I can read in a lot of better fanfiction🤨

[@GothicBookLover]

I still read Sophie Kinsella books because there is some character development in her books. The newer authors lean so heavily into tropes, the books might as well as be Harlequin books (nothing wrong with those books...but you would at least expect that they have a formula).

[@kat2826]

OMG FINALLY! i love romance novels, but i have to push through them. most of the time!

[@Eliot832]

Leonie, you are such a good content creator. Your videos are beautiful, insightful, and so unique. Thanks for investigating the questions I want answered!

[@auraezahra]

My biggest complain about romance books is that I’ve reached a point where ALL romance books feel like I’m reading the same book with just a new character or a different atmosphere.

[@qwertykeyboard5901]

10:40 "Hey, what if instead of resisting these prejudices we _lean into them_ for the romance novel? Because I want the world in my novel to be a horrible miserable place to live!"

[@larssjostrom6565]

In almost every romance novel I have read(not many) there is an irritating break up at the end that lasts some pages and then they are together.

[@AudioEpics]

Yes. I hate that too. It's just such a cheap way to insert conflict.

[@larssjostrom6565]

It is.

[@shannonTHEcannon_]

Gone are the days of brave knights, a villian that would burn the world for you, a cheeky stalker that wipes out your enemies now all you get is angsty immature young boys or some rich priviliged billionaire man that verbally abuses, physically abuses mc. I want to feel loved not like im fighting for my life.

[@seymourpant]

How can you imply that romance is hated due to misogyny, and in the same breath admit that it's cringe and the opium of the masses? If men tried to aestheticize reading Halo books, they would be equally looked down upon. It's about the quality of the books you idolize, not the genre. Edit: reading is supposed to give you access to the realm of ideas and thought, and romance readers use their reading time to hear the same tropes over and over again about the most vapid characters ever created, turning the publishing industry into a 'who can trick girls into buying the most copies' competition, rather than a real, profound, human stories

[@Agridulce_Doll]

Jane Eyre! Every time I read it I end up crying! It is so beautiful!

[@kazzy9897]

I know I don't watch every single book tuber out there but apart from a few guilty pleasure book channels. You and Read with Cindy are the only ones in my opinion worth the hype. I'm always learning from you guys and you guys always have something worth saying (Not to say all other booktubers don't) but you guys definitely have the best content. I ca rewatch your deep dives all day.

[@claricesilva2700]

Romance books are great when it's focused not only in the romance itself but on the personal growth of the characters. Reading Jane Austen for example is one the best experiences you'll ever have because she understood what romance is supposed to be and to me she was one of the few who did.

[@eifos8280]

Loved the video! Always happy to add more romance books to my TBR list! 'The charm offensive' is the romance book that made me fall in love with the genre. I can't recommend it enough! The chemistry between the characters is amazing!

[@vainpiers]

I've started trying to find books with romance but avoiding romance. I get more giddy and feel more rewarded when its something going on in the background. I think a lot of romance books struggle with pacing and showing us why they like eachother. It can't be he's got a tragic backstory, or he was nice one time. It's gotta grow over time and theres gotta be mutual respect eventually. I'm a big believer in the most important part of enemies to lovers is when they start to respect eachother.

[@dinahlizett]

What I find cringe, and I might be only me, is the subplot of the main character trying to prove herself as a professional. I often find myself reading and thinking "lady, I dont care about your presentation with the rival CEO" or rolling my eyes how the main character gets professional opportunities through nepotism.

[@AudioEpics]

😄 Haha! So true! Opening her own bookshop, bed and breakfast, or getting that promotion... It reminds me too much of my own failed professional life. The whole point of reading is to escape from that! 😅

[@cmm5542]

It's not the unrealistic romance that gets me, it's the unrealistic career opportunities! 😂

[@MargraveFel]

16 year old famous assassin with anxiety attacks and hidden magical powers is also up there.

[@paulinahafer7185]

My grandpa is backing the statistics 😂☝️ he loves romantic books while my grandma reads mostly thrillers 🙈 always cherished that fun fact

[@AudioEpics]

My husband loved Pride and Prejudice while I'd pick a good action movie instead. 🤪

[@maggietiong6153]

Great video! I enjoyed your thoughts about how people cringe about feel-good books about love. It's wild that people often point out happy endings as unrealistic because at least in my circles (mid-40s) most people are married or coupled. Wanting to find love / a life partner is an experience across languages, cultures, and eras. Most of our stories aren't as dramatic in books, but a lot of contemporary romance at least isn't actually that wildly dramatic. Talia Hibbert and Emily Henry, for example, mostly write about regular people with regular jobs finding love. Yet people look down on romance for being unrealistic and stuff like Jack Reacher is fine because we accept that men can differentiate fiction from real life in their fictional escapes.

[@laradadic908]

Love your deep dive videos! Tbh I love romance cuz it just helps me relax and it's great for taking me out of this world when it gets too stressful... and whole 'happy ending' trope doesn't leave me feeling empty inside which is also a bonus 😂

[@AudioEpics]

I love happy endings! I don't care how unoriginal they might call it. For me, endings should at least be bitter-sweet, e.g. the main conflict is solved but they lost something or someone.

[@secretlyadragon4723]

Being in the publishing industry I can concur, romance books are where the monies at. Despite how people make it seem like a lesser genre, it has such a good turnover profit-wise even if it isn't winning awards like literary fiction, fantasy or sci-fi because it is entertaining at the end of the day and reading is still fundamentally a leisure activity. And romance readers are always looking for new content. The romance genre being a huge money maker has always been a thing. Although it's more evident recently due to certain popular authors and tik tok, it's always been that way. I had an acquaintance, who I haven't been in contact with for about ten years, but I remember she would order the Mills and Boon collection of romances every month. EVERY month. And we worked together for like five years. Mills and Boon's romances are fairly short. They publish a few books every month and they had (maybe they still have it going) a box set collection of their monthly releases and she would buy it, devour them every month and wait 'almost' patiently for the next set to be released the next month. The genre elements might change to appeal to newer generations (aka be less cringe, maybe, maybe not) but it's going to keep being one of the top sellers in publishing.

[@Brittanysplittany]

I love gender roles but also it’s important to know that in real life, whether or not you fit the stereotype doesn’t make you any less of a man or woman 🩷

[@ThexImperfectionist]

Your analytical/deep dive/ retrospective videos are my favorites! Your thoughts are always articulate and thoughtfully organized. Plus as a fellow woman in a STEM field, I really appreciate the effort you put into your research (looking into origins of the studies, etc)!

[@jessieballpk]

these kind of videos are my favourites of yours; i love the way you break down the topic at hand and provide the viewers with nuanced and interesting takeaways - and, as always, your visual aids are perfect and make the video even more engaging. i don't read much romance (i'm not normally drawn to it in fiction - or in real life either actually, i consider myself a romantic but one who is just not interested in pursuing romantic relationships lol) but this video makes me want to consciously explore the reasons for my reading choices and maybe find some romance books that fit my reading needs!

[@JanelleMac]

I love romance books, and I appreciate you giving such a nuanced, respectful, and supportive critique of the genre! Your content is amazing. Keep up the great work! ❤

[@shadowbooster-realm]

That "I hate you" bit was top tier giggle material. ... "Do you? Or do you just want to kiss me...?" Perfect! 🤣

[@janefan1216]

THANK YOU for helping me find a way to validate my newfound enjoyment of contemporary romance books. Jane Eyre is my favorite book of all time, also!

[@haneulnophi]

I've been in a reading slump for years now and really struggled to finish a book. but after watching loads and loads of booktube videos, I somehow decided to read Emily Henry's Book Lovers frankly just because I thought it will be light and easy to read, and it happens to be the one available in my library. I didn't expect to read it nonstop until the dawn, it made me laugh, made me cry, sometimes kicking my blanket and squeaking like a little girl. romance can be a hit & miss (and most of the times, most likely to be a miss), but when it hit, gosh it's so good! kinda like love itself, maybe you've met a lot of cringy people throughout the years, but when you finally meet the one... they might be perfect.

[@SO-vw8nx]

I found it so cringe 😅 no build up between the love interests, I don’t get how the main character said she “hated” the love interest, it was so far-fetched, so it doesn’t fit the enemies to lovers category ppl put it in imo. I found it hard to finish, I can see it’s appeal though

[@Elle_Riley]

i think the Romance genre having its own conventions is absolutely understandable and morally neutral! i feel, however, like the word 'romance' covers so much more than is grouped into this genre, that I've been put-off because of my own expectations going into reading romances. for example (i'm going to use movies/tv as my examples, but in a way where I want to read things with the same vibe as them), when I first read romances, i went in expecting a 'Titanic'-like love story, with the angst and pining and aching and thematic elements and realistic characters, ( *except* I do want more romances/love stories like it where there *can* be more happy endings-because the world itself feels soooo dark and hopeless like all of the time, i WANT to feel that hope can pay off....) but then when i read "Romances", they were more like unserious tween disney movies except that the characters were full grown adults just with the same amount of emotional depth as kids. that isn't to say I wouldn't sometimes love something with tropes that's lighter and more rom-com fun like '10 Things I Hate About You', but it just needs to have the storytelling and characters I can see myself understanding like that movie to work. i ALSO love love looove when you get a 'Good Omens/2' situation where there's a love story at the core, but still lots of other plot happening around it-plot not happening _because_ of the romance, but meaningful and often solvable through it-with the heaviness and chemistry of a Titanic love but that other, wider story happening. like if i want Jack/Rose, I don't necessarily want it to be historical ALL the time NOR always tragic in ending. if I want silly romcom i still want the characters to react like real human beings. i want love stories with extremely interesting plots that still depend on the main relationship feeling real and not like a throw-in for the sake of fulfilling "everyone needs to end up in a couple by the end". and I have *no idea whatsoever* on how I could find that simply by genre. that's my problem with 'Romance'-that the 'romance' i Want isn't usually what fits into the genre conventions of "romance"- because it seems like what they mean by the "romance genre" is just a small sliver of all actual romantic stories, and that they're the ones that are like "fluffy chick-flick" :////////

[@AudioEpics]

I agree. I only like romance when it's part of a bigger story. I can't help it, but it always seems to creep into our stories too, no matter how dark and disturbing they are. There is always room for a good romance, even when it's between two minor characters.

[@GavStev-xu8ym]

The intro was practically "before yall come for me I'd like to clarify" XD love your videos

[@lezeltunbridge7509]

Clearly your romance genre PHD can be attributed to you having many Personal Hours Devoured by the genre. Also, your video essays are epic! I use them as examples for my high school English students. Thanks again!

[@AudioEpics]

😄

[@AngHemenway]

OK hilariously I had both a fake dating relationship in my life and an enemies to lovers one. 😂😂So when I met my ex-husband I had dated his best friend, and his best friend used me. My ex suggested we pretend to date to make him jealous and get back at him. The fake dating only lasted like a week before we confessed we weren't really dating, then confessed to each other that we did actually like each other and started dating for real. The enemies to "lovers" (because we never actually became lovers haha) was the high school jock who I couldn't stand because he walked around the school acting like he owned the joint and it bothered me so much. I dated his cousin and because of that we met and I realized he wasn't as bad as I thought. Eventually we both ended up single and dated for a couple months. One of our mutual friends called me and said my BF decided he just wanted to be friends. I was pissed that he broke up with me through a friend and couldn't even do it himself. Then that friend asked me out in the same call. 3 years later I ran into him and found out he never asked his friend to call and thought I just stopped talking to him and he never knew why.

[@guruomuraisu6048]

Your love life is more interesting than some books out there 😃

[@AngHemenway]

@@guruomuraisu6048 😆😆 I've thought about writing a book about it. How it turned out was way wilder than I ever imagined

[@sieliestschonwieder1987]

Loved your little doctors coat and the heart make up on the cheeks, set a nice tone 😂 I personally don't really like many romance books. I am very interested in The secret society. But I also found that aspect very important that you mentioned: The inner logic must be working in a good book, no matter if it's fantasy, romance etc. Doesn't matter if things are realistic, but they have to be made realistic in a good story. 😊 I am such a fan of all of your videos, so astethic and calming! Thank you for that beautiful content.

[@Michaeltheweeb]

15:41 the only unrealistic thing i don't like is expecting me to be 6.4 feet bilionare that is somehow still unhappy with his life. I fricking love romance, but god do i feel bad about myself thinking about it. It also sets impossible standards fore some people, men included, ahem: "she boobily breasted down the stairs" :)

[@tal8762]

Created a wish list on Amazon for Leonie book recs. Thank you, Leonie!

[@nissasbookcorner]

i think for me, the reason i steer clear from (mostly popular) romances isn’t because i want to steer clear of love stories, it’s more like the extremely cishet centered romances are the ones that always get “popular”……… and also the entire plot besides the romance suffers, the characters are super one-dimensional, and it’s too focused on a “man” and a “woman” and how they’re so differenttt and they don’t understand each otherrrr. see this is not all romances, definitely not, like i’ve read some romances that i genuinely love but yeah it’s those ones that the ppl that only/mostly read romance read that are just not good to me??

[@fluffbowl]

I think almost every romance reader knows they're reading unrealistic or embellished stories, but believing is different from knowing. And then there's hoping and acting accordingly as well. Obviously, all escapism kind of works like that and while a voracious fantasy reader isn't gonna wish for dragons, they might still be dissatisfied with a mundane life or disappointed that they'll never be special. Being a voracious reader myself, I wouldn't want to take the escapism that books can be from anyone. But I think we can still recognize all the functions books can have.

[@AudioEpics]

Amen! Escapism is the main reason I read and write!

[@s.y.k.a1912]

Me and a friend discussed about romance books at this current timeline, and we both agreed that romance would've been an interesting genre and have so many potentials especially regarding racism, queer relationships in a heteronormative world, disabilities, and other beliefs to be talked about in the stories. But authors, other times the readers just wanna focus on the ROMANCE part so bad, so other 'serious issues' are often ignored. Not to mention the blatant misogyny within the community? If a male character does anything wrong, he is forgiven. But a female character? They'll go ballistic at it, even female characters who actually have a personality or having multiple interests are being called "annoying", "too quirky", "too immature", even "pick me". I saw somebody said that they hate reverse sunshine x grumpy, where they would get mad at the grumpy girl's mean behaviour towards the golden retriever guy. But if it's a grumpy guy x sunshine girlie where the guy is acting so rude and awful towards the sunshine, it's still acceptable?? Yeah, it makes sense now why a lot of other genre fans and a lot of MEN themselves look down upon romance community... it's because the serious issues being used are never serious to begin with, and sometimes, I do wish some romance readers need a reality check because ab*se, SA, r@pe, toxic relationships, catcalling, stalking are no way near "cool" or "awesome" to do so or go through. I'm more worried about youngsters since their curiousity to read dark romance, erotica, or just sm*tty books can affect their thinking skills and development into adulthood.

[@severianthefool7233]

I’m a guy, and I don’t really read or know a lot about “romance novels”, but I love novels with romance in them, if that makes sense. (I Capture the Castle, Rebecca, etc)

[@tal8762]

People call something a “guilty pleasure” & I think people shouldn’t feel guilty about the books, tv, movies music & KZbin channels they love. Just enjoy what u love (as long as it’s legal & not hurting anyone).

[@columba1234]

Absolutely agree with you 👍

[@anonme_]

This crowd understanding free will? Wow, aren't you sensational.

[@HanhNguyen-uk8bc]

Having a guilty pleasure is fine. The amount of teenage girls who idealized Twilight and then went on to engage in abusive relationships because "it's just like Edward and Bella" is NOT fine. It's only bad when you can't recognize that fine line.

[@tal8762]

@@HanhNguyen-uk8bc Having a pleasure is fine, Calling it a guilty pleasure implies guilt. They don’t need to feel guilt for enjoying movies. Also, my comment says “as long as it’s legal & not hurting anyone” - something that leads people into toxic relationships IS CLEARLY HURTING SOMEONE.

[@AudioEpics]

Amen to that! I believe entertainment is valuable because it takes people’s minds away from their boring daily lives or distract them from pain. In my experience, the more creators try to put messages and meaning in their content, the further away their creation gets from a good story.

[@barpe4514]

13:48 I hear you, but the only one bed trope is actually how I got my first real boyfriend, so... I do belive in it being possible realistic 😂

[@losj3020]

I think there's something in the criticism of romance books being "badly written". A lot of romance books I read have barebone writing style imo, a lot of things like "I do this" "I did that" "he's so hot" "he makes me sad", and it just feels like you're reading a post on the internet instead of being a part of a love story. I feel like it's a widespread problem, but romance kinda get the worst of it bc in genres like fantasy or thriller you're expected to be dramatic and no one bats an eye at romance. I mean I'm not asking for 347 pages of poetry. Something simple but not just textbook level English for ESL would be nice tbh

[@AudioEpics]

100%!

[@logana.martinez770]

"You humans have so many emotions! You only need two: anger and confusion!" -Michael, The Good Place

[@senk09]

My husband has gotten really into romance books ( bonus points for him if it's a regency period romance)

[@nymeria941]

Very well said! I think, in addition to the discussion of how books that are primarily read and written by women become infantilized, there is also something to be said about the assumption, that romance books or other genre literature primarily consumed by women, must always have portrayals of the healthiest most positive relationships. we should be able to read books without the expectation that they are always going to be didactic or improving in some way. I know this idea that improving literature is the only thing suitable for women to read dates back to literally the beginning of the novel as an art form, and I do agree that there are definite reasons to be critical of the way that toxic relationships are portrayed in romance. I think that there is a difference in the way that people approach something like this in literary fiction, where it is seen as such a positive that the author can explore, dark, twisted and messed up things, but suddenly because romance is not treated as serious literature, it’s a bad thing if romance authors try to explore the same topics. Like every genre, there’s going to be plenty of good, well, written romance, along with poorly written books that handle topics clumsily. I hope that one day we get to a point where people are able to look beyond stereotypes and actually appreciate the genre and the really great literature you can find within the romance section.

[@amandadunseith7928]

Jane eyre is my favorite book of all time! I love how in her station she is submissive but when it actually comes to making choices she is able to think for herself and not let others make decisions for her. Jane has such a inner strength that we don't see in many female protagonist. To be able to resist the temptation of staying with someone you are in love with when she so badly wanted love only to stay true to herself...I mean what can be stronger? Only later to be pressured to marry without love but a life she would want only again to stay true to herself. I also liked how it showed being a quiet person doesn't necessarily mean weak.Jane Eyre was way before her time

[@cmm5542]

I agree with everything except 'way before her time.' Jane Eyre is evidence that women have ALWAYS been just like us today! The more I read of classic literature and study history, the more deeply I realize that human nature never really changes and societies go in circles and are very superficial on their impact compared to the depth of the human soul 🙂

[@dinoslayerreviews]

'She makes the man experience joy for the first time since birth' 😂😂😂 you're too good at making fun of romance books! Love it

[@brianna9006]

here to offer a little speculation on why the romance audience is so disproportionately female; could it be because girls are taught to like this genre? I remember when I was younger, when I was encouraged to read more novels, I was told that I would enjoy "romances" because they're for little girls. I remember it being very popular in book corners in classrooms that the romances were always in the picked out by girls section. I suspect this is not a unique experience.

[@angieng6091]

I love the little drawings you did they’re so cute 😭

[@saulshellokittyphone]

I am currently reading Jane Eyre and I can confirm, it is beautifully written and so full of love! The passages about platonic and familial love in particular are so so well written. I will say though, I would rate it farther towards the silly end of the spectrum! Without spoiling, there have been many moments that have made me drop the book and burst out laughing with how ridiculous they were. It’s like the 19th century version of a trashy Netflix show. Easily a favorite for me!

[@cmm5542]

I'm curious about what you consider 'silly'? Some issues that are not serious for us today after 150 years of working on them, would have been genuinely serious issues in the early 1800s. The historical context has to be taken into account. I've heard so many people mock Romeo and Juliet because 'why didn't Romeo contact anyone before deciding to kill himself?' Like, do they not have any idea how limited the communication options were back then? He couldn't have simply texted Friar Lawrence.

[@mitraep]

I lost count how many times I have said ‘exactly’ watching this video… great overview. Thanks!

[@amyrajpat5696]

Female here and while I sometimes read romance as a guilty pleasure, I do love a well-constructed romance with good characters. And I am a sucker for fluff and fluff instigated by a ML.

[@avinashreji60]

A what?

[@IsabelaGiusti]

OH MY GOD, THAT SEGUE TO THE SPONSORSHIP PORTION OF THE VIDEO WAS SOOOOOO GOOD!! I usually smell a segue from a mile away, but this one took me by surprise. I loved it, Leonie!!

[@jjkthebest]

For real. It always bothers me when people say that certain genres or media create unrealistic expectations. It's so silly to me. Especially because those same people then go around and defend whatever it is they like themselves against that exact same criticism.

[@agelesssea7109]

I also read a lot of romance and I don't like how unrealistic they are. Not because the man treats the woman well, but because the man treats the woman like dirt and she somehow still loves him???

[@geekyfangirl2951]

Why does it seem that romance books lately just don’t seem to have good pacing, I have looked into a few that booktok recommended and some of the books rush through the story so there’s no build up. Ones that make me cringe the most are the sports ones. Usually they are halfway researched as some I have looked into because I was curious and there were player positions missing from rosters and the author seems to not have a clear understanding of the game, I was looking forward into reading some but I just couldn’t once I read the first few pages (mainly this is me ranting about hockey books). Also why do so many of these have so many broody guys?!

[@tsifirakiehl4250]

I will never understand the appeal of broody guys. What do people find attractive about constant complaining and sulking?

[@severianthefool7233]

Hey Leoni. Just wanted to say that your channels are my favorite on KZbin. They’re so authentic, interesting and unique and I love everything about them

[@PrincessZeldaGirl]

I HAD THE ONLY ONE BED EXPERIENCE IN REAL LIFE. Like I need to shout this from the rooftops because nobody ever believes its real. Storytime: I was in the Peace Corps in Madagascar for a while. I occasionally had to travel with my entire cohort of like 40ish people to trainings in the capital. The hotel situation there is confusing, there was a massive language gap we struggled with early on, and some areas of the country are socially conservative and some are DEEPLY NOT conservative. There also wasnt any option to just "go to another hotel" at night because hotel options were limited and we were flat out banned from our organization from doing things after dark in most cities so if you rolled up at 7:30 you were pretty much stuck. This all combined to MULTIPLE TIMES we get to the hotel that was booked out ahead of time, and they have randomly paired everyone because the hotel didn't have enough rooms set aside due to whatever mismanagment situation and the rooms never had 2 beds either!!!! Like literally day 1 in the country, im a new peace corps volunteer just arrived know 2 words of the local language, they did this at the hotel everyone was at on our way to the training center. I shared a bed with a man i have never met LOL. We did not bang it was like 10% awkward but it felt like whatever since we were in such a wild context anyway. but i know for a FACT that other people in my cohort did fuck whoever they were paired with that night. IT REALLY HAPPENED. Again this happened multiple times going forward with hotels even when I was traveling with only 1 or 2 people where we had to triple share a queen bed or something, though we werent "strangers" after that point, and it became "gotta share a bed with my buddy who has already seen my hairy legs and watched me puke up giardia" and it was never a big deal again. SO BASICALLY--- its real yall, iv lived it, my friends banged bcus of it, all the romance novels are right there is a weird tension esp when you are in a situation like "i just moved to another country for 3 years fuck it"

[@crazydancinpete]

Hahaha yes! As a returned PCV I can absolutely understand how your experience went down!

[@xy9231]

The height trope is so fucking annoying. One of the coolest things about meeting my partner is that he's a little shorter than me, and on first glance I didn't see him as 'my type.' Yet his mind and soul were so bright and powerful that I knew I was 'in trouble' within a couple of hours lol. It was so magical to experience, and I'd love to re-live it through a romance novel! If it were done well, I think readers would respond to it. It's very odd to me that romance leans so heavily on hotness. If YA literature and Harry Potter fanfiction of the early 2000s taught us anything, it should be that we can and do get wholly invested in diverse and NOT distinctly hot people developing a connection and dreamily shipping them to our graves.