Why boys are failing? | Philip Zimbardo | TEDxRawaRiverSalon

[@minin911]

"We need to show men they are lovable, desirable, and not disposable" Right in the feels

[@jacobjacob4139]

But, Are we lovable, desirable & not disposable?

[@jankotz2264]

@@jacobjacob4139-> yes ; except of course, you'd like to have a completely disharmonious society filled with anger and depression

[@JessicaEconomou]

Men are eloquently simple and I love them all❤️

[@Mevlinous]

Not only that, but that they are worth a damn, they are important and are needed.

[@Qwufi]

@@jacobjacob4139 I am.

[@HandSolitude]

"When female teachers graded boys and girls, and then you took the names off the papers, the boys grades went up 30%." 16:20

[@vikingking71]

I completely believe this and agree but can you post the link

[@ajdoyle9559]

What is the source for this and what was the sample size ? How could such a big problem and injustice be allowed if it is definitely occurring ?

[@vikingking71]

@@ajdoyle9559 because negative discrimination is only wrong when done to women and minorities

[@David-es4pi]

I heard that too and I find that somewhat unbelievable. 30% is staggeringly high

[@toplad8113]

@@David-es4pi It really isn't so outlandish to be quite honest. Gender-biases tend to be often high in percentages because they're subconscious and often untold and thus hard to hold people accountable for.

[@harveyohare]

Society shuns and rejects men, then wonders why they opt out.

[@gina333]

Sad why is society shunning and rejecting you though. Stop blaming others.

[@blah4054]

okay, so for the rest of your life never ever say anything about sexism then since you want to tell this person "sad" to stop blaming others.

[@flemishtemplar3766]

Just go mgtow and do as i, find peace, serenity and no drama by only working for yourself!! You need to take care of yourself, man!

[@huntermoseley86]

Society isn’t shunning it’s more so teaching men the wrong things then once it starts realizing it’s wrong then trying to change it, but these bad habits have been instilled and men then start to form victim complexes because they aren’t willing to change because they were taught not to change.

[@theweatherdog1816]

@@huntermoseley86 What planet do you live on?

[@skilsawworker4020]

I’m a farther, my sons 12. Just showed him how to wire some 12 volt lights for our lawn tractor. Gonna let him put the same set up of his mini bike. He helps me work on our vehicles, change oil, breaks ect. Works summers helping me frame houses... Just like my dad did with me. People need to listen to this... our children deserve better. I know All of us can work even harder to protect our kids, teach our kids!

[@islamwasrightaboutwomen4420]

Hate to be that person but... You spelt Father wrong

[@user-fz3ip3ke8p]

@@soonahero u do know the industrial revolution wont be in 10 years when his boy will be 22 and needs to fix his car breaks right? Soyboy

[@user-fz3ip3ke8p]

@@soonahero you got some tesla money? Im 18 and just got myself a car for 8k and plan to have it for another 15 years. The future will be alot but it wont be electric

[@resolutehd4865]

@@user-fz3ip3ke8p When Uber and smaller taxi depots want to make money, where do they go? Driverless cars, since you don't need to pay the worker. It becomes automated, and jobs are minimized. Truckers and bus drivers will also go through this stage at some point. Retail workers are losing jobs due to Amazon. Lower income jobs are getting replaced, and replaced with work that requires education. Our working class people will suffer 5-20 years from now because they won't have any sustainable income, and because they probably don't have work experience/education, it will be almost impossible for them to ever retire unless changes are made.

[@user-fz3ip3ke8p]

@@soonahero lmao bet u cant even drive non automatic

[@gilindahouse]

This is truly heart wrenching, especially when you realize that you're part of this group

[@DoomStarRequiem]

And that you know what he's saying is true because you've felt it personally.

[@5erase]

Yeah I was thinking the same thing

[@TheParks13]

So what are you doing to change that? Everything Zimbardo pointed out I experienced it and currently am, however, I've decided to change my outlook on life. I wanted to look good for 'myself' so I decided to work out and eat healthy. I wanted to be more sociable so I stopped playing games and started going out and socializing with women. I was extremely scared of rejection and still am but it's part of life and the faster we cope with it the quicker we can get back to living our lives. Change comes within and sometimes the fear of failing holds us back, but remember you miss 100% of the shots you don't take. Wish you all success and never lose hope in yourselves. 😁👍🏼

[@tMtFtU]

@@TheParks13 How's it going now man, any updates on your life?

[@TheParks13]

@@tMtFtU Given that I wrote this a week ago, I'd say pretty good actually. I'm about to get my Bachelor's in Social Psychology and plan to move to Dallas, TX. I'm still going to the gym every day with no excuses and starting to feel good about myself. I have more confidence in approaching women and also learning that it's okay if you get rejected. Not only that, I'm learning to love and respect myself by caring for my body and mental wellbeing. Some days are tough and it's not always sunshine and rainbows but you have to battle through it, you have to learn how to overcome the obstacles life throws your way. You have two options you either feel sorry for yourself and drown in a pit of misery or be the best version of yourself and focus on a brighter future. I hope this brings inspiration to those who read this and really change for 'themselves' and not for somebody else. Nothing good comes easy and everything must be earned in this world but it's doable if you're dedicated enough. Wish everyone success!

[@monsieurhassan]

teachers biased in grading boys is really harmful. Schools should make it mandatory to grade tests etc. by codes and not names, so the teachers don't know who they're grading.

[@ThorstenVXO]

Muhammad Shafiq Where did you go to school?

[@monsieurhassan]

+ThorstenVXO not in the US.

[@ThorstenVXO]

Muhammad Shafiq I assumed that. Just wanted to know the country, as I always thought it was primarily a Western phenomenon.

[@monsieurhassan]

+ThorstenVXO well I keep certain details confidential on the internet for privacy reasons (grew up somewhere in Asia). To answer your concern, I don't think it is necessarily a Western phenomenon. I think boyish boisterousness is punished and villianised in the classroom anywhere because teachers are mostly women. I remember in classes 1-5, the teacher's pet was usually a girl. I was a taciturn and demure child so I was in the good graces of the teachers, but generally boys were labelled as the "bad student". Maybe the remedy is more male teachers in schools, but I think men don't want to be school teachers.

[@wenigmehl]

+Muhammad Shafiq After a while they often know the handwriting though :/

[@latt.qcd9221]

When women prioritize their own happiness and forging their own path rather than following the role and expectations that society expects of them, we call it "women's liberation." When men do the same, we call it an "epidemic."

[@davidbolha]

The Rockefellers brainwashed women in the first place. 🤔

[@raccoon_from_heaven]

@@davidbolha brainwashed women? U mean feminists?

[@aylbdrmadison1051]

You guys don't even realize you are the subject of this talk. Bigotry is an obvious symptom of this problem, not a cure

[@latt.qcd9221]

@@aylbdrmadison1051 Bigotry is a symptom of the problem, for sure. The bigotry is coming from Feminists, however.

[@BygoneT]

Problem is, there is no "What society tells them". Because the messages contradict each other. Feminists don't say " Do whatever you want", they say "Do X because it was historically male dominated and it needs to be decolonised". That's not liberation, you just put a new sticker on the tyrant. These days the decent feminists can be counted on a single hand for fuck's sake

[@simonemastrovito6315]

At least now I know why I'm depressed: I see myself in almost all of his talking points. yay

[@MrNightpwner]

You're projecting. Honestly we all have moments where we come up short. It doesn't define our ability, it hones it. I feel like this guy is just an old man saying generic things. Video must be popular with the mgtows of the world.

[@greggeverman5578]

Ahh, there's always hope, buddy! Watching this vid is the first positive step towards getting to a healthy, happy life!

[@justanothernerdydude4391]

Digital huggers ACTIVE! *Hug*

[@manictiger]

There's no problem so big that suicide can't fix it.

[@justanothernerdydude4391]

@@manictiger What about the problem of rising suicide rates amongst young men? Suicide seems to be making that problem worse.

[@Madrock7777]

"You never get rejected" Someone has never played a mmo and tried to talk in general chat.

[@SilverSF2]

It is only to be expected that people in chat are indifferent or dude.

[@xXTheBl4ckC4tXx]

The game never rejects you, he isn´t talking about people. The game accepts you no matter who you are.

[@Buddy420]

Link achievement or no inv

[@hypermelon_8654]

Rokas M play classic my dude

[@sterix_gg]

@@Buddy420 U need Curve to get Curve 4Head

[@kboy505]

Brought tears to my eyes honestly. Made me feel a validation towards being left behind like it's not just some twisted world view. Men and boys really are left behind and considered disposable.

[@annatar6453]

Men were always disposable. Back in the day we were left to rot on the battlefield. Now we rot in our parent’s basements.

[@AverageAngel]

that's sad that the video brought tears to your eyes. I wishing you the best.

[@r.h.f.6073]

i'm sorry if you feel disposable, there would ideally be loving people in your life who show you otherwise.

[@mikehillman212]

There is an interesting documentary you might like "The Red Pill". It is honestly sad but might speak to your experience.

[@romadabos4534]

It's extremely sad that boys are so escaped and depressed. I feel empathetic towards them

[@ItsSkingles]

10,000 hours of gaming on average? Thems rookie numbers, lads. We need to step up!

[@slayallthedeamons]

No, we don't.

[@Rigotto90]

LMBO!!!!

[@joes7378]

Bunch of noobs

[@shylondonfox9805]

Rookie numbers got to push em higher

[@jordonjames84]

lmao did he say 13 hours a week, man thats weak.

[@maximiliano_lozano]

"I'm here to sound the alarm" *Funny alarm noise* "So anyways were all doomed"

[@MrHDin1822]

😂😂😂😂😂😂😂

[@Fguramafia]

Dating today is tedious and sometimes dangerous with no satisfaction.

[@SamY-ig7sd]

How does this comment relate to the issues in the video?

[@MYkeyMadeIt]

um... It is a key reason why many would rather game and interact with a machine than an erratic uncontrollable human being. Why chase when it's right in your face? is a primary question in this issue. We like satisfaction be it long or short term. Success and productivity previously inferred that satisfaction awaited one on the other side. With growing evidence that this is not guaranteed in a world that would rather maintain problems to maintain jobs than implement solutions to open space for new jobs and roles, we are starting to think "what is the point? This is all bs..." and start grasping for things which we can start and finish and extract tangible feedback from. We have to have money, time, interest, charm, jump through tons of hoops just for the opportunity to be rejected and/or "two timed" by a confused narcissist or Activate Pornhub and a hand. Without an idealized vision to fight towards with intervals of satisfaction dispersed throughout, digital wins.

[@Fguramafia]

Sam Y he is talking on porn. Thats why I mentioned dating.

[@metalim]

Don't worry. 1st world population will die out because of shame, equality, tolerance and other social idiocracy. But 3rd world doesn't know such things exist and will gladly take the land. Humanity saved.

[@projectjt3149]

except 3rd world countries are becoming first world, cough cough China

[@Mevlinous]

Start incorporating trade school into high school as an option, this is where all the male teachers are.

[@RatelHBadger]

I teach 9-10 year olds, I have been fortunate enough to incorporate construction and electronics as part of my normal classroom options. Both the boys and girls really respond and love to explore how things work or constructing something new from the bits. I know sadly I'm one of the few teachers able to do this.

[@emersonthomas7201]

All male teacher I have had were all high school and above, and they taught; math, physics and graphics.

[@randallsmith2521]

@@emersonthomas7201 until I was in Middle School I never saw a male teacher (though I did have a male principals). Like you, my experience was similar. The male teachers taught science, math, computers, or some sort of "trade" course.

[@aylbdrmadison1051]

When I was still in school, yes this was long ago ty, we had metal and wood shop classes, music classes, and all sorts of classes that are now long gone along with linguistic literacy. What's failing men most is what is also failing us all most: our public school system has been under attack since the reagan administration. I still remember when arnold became the governator in California. That's the year all these things were stolen away from us. It's always been the conservative agenda to keep the poor downtrodden so the rich can keep getting richer. This is history, not some fake news like half of what we read on the internet today. This is what everyone knew as fact long before the internet. Nothing has changed except their ability to brainwash people has increased dramatically because of the internet. Movements like flat earth are just diversions promoted by the same 1% who only desire your paycheck in their pocket, your home and well being will be taken from you if they can find a way. I repeat: nothing has changed but their increased ability to brainwash people.

[@phenton91]

I may be the only person that had male teachers at all levels, but oddly a female teacher for computer science

[@charlesconfino165]

Boomers are experts at both creating and highlighting problems with our generation and at the same time offering no solutions

[@exist7415]

Many were our dads that walked away and winder why we don't listen to them or respect them

[@holdenhughes]

Did you not see the solutions he offered at the end?

[@CoachKussenVuist]

Oh quit blaming everyone and expecting others to solve your problems. The boomers had their own struggles as you have yours.

[@JimmyFucker]

But this one boomer has actually offered a solution

[@brunobmrf]

Charles watch at 17:40

[@brandonln7162]

“Go into the world” aight imma head out.

[@RianeBane]

Ooh, motivational meme. Nice.

[@Remtopkiller]

Guys go check Alpha male strategies's channel, it's the solution to every problems listed here.

[@danthemansmail]

It is called social programming and it is intentional.

[@user-ji1hp]

i agree, i truly believe the government is behind this to enslave the population.

[@donovangordon1062]

It's true. The globalists are everywhere and know full well that if they can neutralize or pacify the Male population, conquering the nation in question will be thousands of times easier.

[@Splatterpunk_OldNewYork]

A program of demoralization. Insidious really.

[@disregardingsanity7005]

Intriguing concept. And it implicates both governmental contribution as much as the private sector/ labour market, and home life.

[@MrEdawg74]

Cultural Marxism

This man speaks about men needing to man up and become "heroes". Basically he speaks about men taking up responsibility and accountability without getting any benefits for those sacrifices. Because the benefits are reserved to be enjoyed by women. You can't have men going to wars, devoting their lives to work and productivity and take the incentives from them to do that. This society is not giving men motivation to do that. In history, in a society with traditional values men just needed to be responsible and work hard, and they basically had a guarantee that they can get married with a quality woman who did value him as a man and his sacrifices and gives him authority for taking on the responsibilities that he took on. Boys today are taught that they are below girls, school systems are skewed to be more suitable for girls. Young women treat you average men like they don't exist, and are giving their attention to the select few men that fill their narrow attractiveness standards.

[@tabbypanda82]

@@hugrid9647 I AGREE WITH YOU. 🙌

[@Punkpsychobilly]

@guliteorm. I don’t know where to even start on your completely idiotic post. Do you honestly believe that? You got problems.

[@Treman198]

guliteorm Modern Schools are cesspools of feminism and standardized testing breeds group think and a hive mind mentality, which is how most women think. Plus with the VAST majority of teachers being women, they have a bias towards female students and most male students don’t have the same respect for their female teachers, as they would with male teachers. You can’t expect men to grow up to be strong men when they have no strong male role models in their lives and they have bitter mothers/teachers telling them what’s right and wrong.

[@deepalijoshi4631]

@@hugrid9647 more and more women are now rising to positions of power which is why they go for men who are equally or more powerful than them. They no longer go for the average men anymore. "And yet, when there are problems, suddenly it's the fault of all society including women": Tell me this was a joke and I am supposed to laugh Your last argument that the school systems aren't suitable for anyone contradicts the fact that more and more men are opting out of unis and more and more boys are not going to schools to get an education while there is seen an increase in women being admitted to schools and unis

[@deepalijoshi4631]

@@hugrid9647 first of all: "men always had high standards for women throughout history" and "they usually wanted a wife that only had to take care of the children and the house" run contradictory to each other. Second, no? Men didn't have very high standards for women throughout history so I don't know what you are talking about. It was usually the men who had to have a job, money, house and some authority for women to be married to them. That's how it was! And still is to a considerable extent.

[@DougVandegrift]

I tend to feel video games are not the cause of the problem but a by product of the problem.

[@myguy4691]

Yea but sadly people dont get to the bottom of the issue

[@V1CCZ3XX]

Agreed. People love finding scapegoats for everything. This type of ted talk should be on TV and discussed more, but what do we get instead? Bs news that boil down to nothing more than "kids these days". Women can be and are still oppressed, especially in lesser developed countries, and their so called liberation and emancipation movement is far from reaching its full potential. It's a lot to discuss here but let's just leave it at both genders have their issues, but honestly, why don't we see this type of discourse more in the media (or am I just not watching the right media)?

[@illusionaryphantom3470]

Videogames as a means for escapism is the symptom, not the cause. I was on that boat in my childhood and I still play today. Except now I play for the same reason I watch movies or read books: I appreciate it as an art.

[@nadirwoodson9321]

@@V1CCZ3XX no You won't find this type of discussion in any media and if you do it's a 1 minute special

[@megauser8512]

Yep!

[@CalebPendergast]

I'm 21 and Dr. Zimbardo basically summed up what my life has looked like for the last 10 years or so. I'm so grateful that I've finally been enlightened in these last few months to realize what in the world was wrong with me. I felt so awkward and out of place as a young man. I've been making major life adjustments and directing my life on a much healthier path now.

[@elbashaanas]

He described my entire life problems in 25mins. This guy deserve too much respect for his awesome thinking and he is obviously a hard working old man.

[@DrRetardo8600]

"They're isolating themselves in their room" Nowadays more people relate to that than ever :D

[@wenelol]

Me and the boys failing at life

[@wenelol]

@@jadenkelly316 No, failing pretty much means not succeeding, giving up and just not being happy with life in general

[@TheGabrielPT]

Im failing, my friends aren't. At least I have friends, I guess

[@ototurmanidze5578]

yes great meme for that

[@f100storys8]

@@wenelol then go fix it, you deserve it.

[@anak_kucing101]

Yeyy!! D:

[@americanhealthcaresurvivor]

*Make learning competitive and watch how quickly boys will get involved.* I remember in high school, a teacher of mine would host a trivia game in class with buzzers. I won a few times and he asked me to be on the academic team that he coached. I didn't accept, but I was flattered. I still remember the feeling of accomplishment from that. Seriously, bring back competitive games in class, student rankings, rewards, etc. and boys will get into it. Also, bring back P.E. and recess. It's insane how many schools got rid of gym class and recess. Boys NEED these things to thrive.

[@OnlyOneHunnids]

Exactly, i'm a competitive guy, always work in trivia games, go as far as cheating to win lol. School system is broken, the teachers don't want men to win and train them to be bitches... They want school to be boring so people learn to be obedient and feminine. They don't want real men like us, because we are a risk to society, we're masculine we gonna take risks to win at all costs, they don't wanna see us win. Slavery is still alive, but today's world is enslaving men mentally rather than physically. We gotta reject their values and rebel against the people trying to enslave our kind.

[@blondiepianist]

Yes! There's a reason that the phrase "healthy competition" exists, and it's not just pertaining to the business world. And in regards to PE and recess, yes! Movement, exercise, and sunlight are life. When you take those away, why should we be surprised that kids struggle more mentally and physically?

[@Driver-pl4vb]

The problem isn't men or women. The problem is people no longer have values. Things like justice, judgment, dependability, Integrity, dedication, tact, initiative, endurance, bearing, unselfishness courage, knowledge, enthusiasm, honor, courage, and commitment no longer mean anything and society is suffering for it.

[@huntermoseley86]

These values are superficial and never existed in the first place

[@huntermoseley86]

Trevor Sedis Because fathers are 9 times out of 10 the reason why a marriage doesn’t work

[@JCobesV2]

Beautifully said. This is the comment that should shine above all the rest yet won’t. I was talking to a fella about the same stuff tonight. Its all about what we value as a whole and we have been valuing the wrong behavior for too long. Its now catching up but people refuse to admit a simple truth.

[@unboundedinc7446]

Thank you the Game👌

[@jessiestienstra6350]

@@huntermoseley86 where is your statistic where does that come from or did you just make that up

[@MS-nb4rk]

Real world is becoming more and more depressing to men thats why they are escaping in virtual world.

[@9k111]

me and the boys playing arma instead of doing good in school

[@moatasemkassab4517]

As a 15 y.o, this comment is extremely relatable lmao

[@analogapotheosis4275]

Every teacher I've ever had would always joke about how girls are smarter then the boys Of course it was just a silly joke but it still kinda hurt :/

[@jesuschrist7816]

^😂

[@tcsan93]

No, No. He's Got a Point.

[@cringeyidiotterry]

With all dues to respect bro, it's best to simply ignore that, or just chuckle about it. My CAP Squadron's drill team commander once said that while briefing us, just before he also said that girls have lower PT(exercise) standards than boys, and longer times to finish running a mile because they don't workout as well, pretty much inferring to how boys tend to be physically stronger than girls.

[@johnathant6735]

Pork Sœda Those teachers are idiots. They are directly playing into “stereotype threat”. By adding a stereotype and making it known, these teachers will indirectly cause boys to perform worse. Shame on them.

[@kallepikku4991]

They are saying that because they are afraid that by saying anything else they'll lose their jobs. In both our middle school and high school classes boys usually graded better than girls in mathematics and science courses, yet girls got all the praise and support. On the other hand girls generally scored better in languages, and the teacher made casual remarks like "girls are smarter than boys in everything".

[@thelejund7944]

Watching this whole thing like yes, uh-huh, yes I've been there, ok I'm still there yeah, alright---alright---All...RIGHT. Annnnddd what's the fix? Oh, try again with the next generation? damn.

[@deleanor9665]

The Lejund LOL

[@cast897]

The answer comes... You just have to be aware about the problem It just comes...

[@Cubelarooso]

The next generation will have all the problems we give them. Procreation is child abuse.

[@classydays43]

@@Cubelarooso so we'll become the second Boomers. 😞

[@stephenc2481]

change your situation and things will change for you. You have recognized your situation. Now, do something about it. Try doing things differently. Put out some effort. Reach out to counselor, preacher, neighbor, friend, or some community leader for advice.

[@saiyangodbroly26]

So I had a wonderful upbrining, very involved and loving parents, did well in school, played sports for several years, am going to graduate soon from Purdue with a degree in mechanical engineering with a 3.7GPA and a high paying job offer already and after all of this I'm still a complete social failure with no friends and no social skills. What then? Am I just the ass of society? It seemed like all my life I've always been developmentally behind my peers in terms of life experiences and general social awareness. And I've been ridiculed all my life because of it. Even in college, even in the workforce. It feels like I do not fit in anywhere, as if this world was just never meant for someone like me. I've tried improvment; I've gone to counseling, I've worked out to improve my physical health. It never helps. What then is there left for me than the only things that seem to make me happy: video games, porn, etc? People like me are not the kind of people happy people want to be around.

[@DeadFishFactory]

Just ignore them. Society shames men into settling down with undateable and unmarriable women because "that's what you're supposed to do".

[@AlW3390]

I know exactly what you are talking about! I can relate to you in absolute terms. And I spent a tremendous amount of time and energy and resources to figure out why the heck this is?!!! I used to be very confused because I used to think that being an smart (above average, but not genious level) well-educated and accomplished individual should be an evolutionary advantage. I thought girls should be competing for me rather than running away from me. So why the heck the opposite seems to be true?!!! Long story short, the opposite is true because most of the rest of the population are afraid of and weirded out by smart intellectual people and this anti-intellectualism runs very deep in their genes. Langauage and Intellect parts of the brain is the pre-frontal cortex part of the brain. It is the newest part of outer brain that in only a few million years old. Most people mainly operate based on older part of their brains, the mid brain (mammalian brain) and the deep brain (reptilian brain). It is more about body language to them than using actual words. And when you think, many of them get a feeling of fear and want to run away. You are too detailed and way too "heady" for them to enjoy and be around. If you want to read books about why this is, I can recommend "The intelligence Paradox" by Satoshi Kanasawa and "Prometheus Rising" by Robert Anton Wilson. But understanding the problem does not help you much to get rid of it. In order to bypass the problem you will need to learn to "be present". "Be present" means to simply be here right now and do nothing. Specially do not think, and do not say anything that is makes any sense in intellectual ways, at least until after you get laid for the first time with a girl. And for American, being able to make and maintain eye contact and being comfortable doing so for prolonged period of time is a very key skill you will need to learn. In USA, no eye contact = NO SEX There is not a lot of new or more things you need to learn to do. If anything, you need to do less. Be less of an smart intellectual person when you want to relate and reproduce. I am not joking with you or messing with you. This is probably the best advice you can get on this topic because nobody else is talking about this. I could not learn to "be present" by reading books. It is a practical matter. I learned it by going to workshops by the Human Awareness Institute (or HAI for short). Here is their mission statement: w15.hai.org/mission-and-values/ It is a most wonderful organization with amazingly kind and supportive people and they create an absolutely safe environment for you to learn and prosper. I guarantee you that! There is a lot of making eye contact, hugging, and listening knowing very well that all you have to do is just listen and no say anything (the concept is known as "holding space"). Other interesting things are learned which are hard to explain. Things such as feeling a member of a community. The only way I cam make sense of it for you is this: You also have the same "Mammalian" and "Reptilian" brain circuits. You just don't pay attention to them and don't use them as much as your intellectual part of your brain gives you so much power and predictability and control over the world. At HAI workshops you learn to "be present" for prolonged periods of time and you don't really need to think. You just sit there and make eye contact and listen. It is like a form of meditation except others are involved. And then the next time you sit with a girl or girl you just tap into those skills and things just works out. You will always stay an intellectual. But this will help you exercise and use the other parts of your brain which you don't get to use as much. And it is those parts of their brains which others use to relate and start and maintain relationships. Trust me on this! Go and sign up for HAI Level 1. It will change your life for better. P.S. Yes HAI is a "Love, Intimacy, and Sexuality" workshop and it is "clothing optional". All of that sounds scary to you right now. And that's because that is the area where you need to stretch. Right at the edge of your comfort zone is where growth happens and HAI is great at helping you go there at your own pace in a very safe environment. HAI is absolutely safe. Their first rule is "being at choice" and their second rule is "getting verbal consent for everything" which you naturally operate on anyways. Nobody is forced to do anything they don't want. Trust me on this! Just go! :-) P.S.S. HAI is a global organization...

[@Spartan8471]

You just haven't been integrated into society. Develop social skills

[@TravistheGREAT03]

Very involved very loving parents? Sounds liek your parents fucked up your puberty socilization face by not letting yo go enough

[@alexanderwhitehorse8934]

This is an amazing point.

[@lolgrass_2165]

"Men isolate themselves from the world. The solution? Go into the world." Nah, I'm good fam.

[@quinnschofield6714]

Lucas Kirkpatrick I'd sooner die than willingly go outside

[@ribriddler8114]

@@quinnschofield6714 this is a uncertified unhood moment

[@darkdarticanic362]

Its more like find a society that accepts you, which is very hard haha. I recommend youth clubs or volunteering.

[@Joyboy0101]

@@darkdarticanic362 What is it about you that it doesnt accept?

[@thomascook3336]

@@Joyboy0101 men are not accepted in western society anymore. That is why they decide to join patriarchal religions like islam.

[@scootza1]

"Schools need to teach kids life skills" I grew up in a liberal school district in the valley where all of our englishes classes in hs talked about microagressions and how straight white men are bad for all 3 years (went from 10th to 12th) I wish we had spent time learning to write essays instead of being told how to not offend people, something i amd anybody with half a brain already knew how to fo.

[@2nooby2idol90]

Instead of gaining you probably loss brain cells from a class like that.

[@BygoneT]

How does a school like that stay open? I am glad I live in Europe.

[@is_koolboi5132]

Rip

[@kingtreedede7303]

Marvelous Quasar Pork Man Europe gang To bad article 13 is gonna delete my existence

[@shadowling77777]

I feel so sorry for you zoomers You can help us call out these crazy Marxist ideologues and save the U.S

[@morganbach2277]

"When a boy comes home with bad grades, the mother hugs him and says I love you anyway" lmao whut??

[@xXTheBl4ckC4tXx]

@jestersMadhouse I would have kicked my mother and not steal food for her.

[@youssefakdim7695]

@@xXTheBl4ckC4tXx i would end up graduating, and find a high income job, and ditch her

[@xXTheBl4ckC4tXx]

@jestersMadhouse I was 8-10 at the time shortly before I turned 11 the city got me out of the household. All becouse people noticed I was stealing bread and send the police with me.

[@god6384]

lol this is so not true. My mother screamed at me everytime hahahah

[@ByValeful]

My mother always did that with my brother so maybe that depends on the mother or the fact that I'm from italy, we excuse a lot here

[@jackharper1091]

He made one point that I really connected with which is you have to earn respect from your dad unlike your mum. I used to have to do this during my childhood but since my teens I haven't seen my farther so I haven't had to earn his respect which I can honestly say has stopped me from pushing myself academically.

[@SirenVosa]

I thought it was a weird point because my experience was exactly the opposite. It's hard for me to imagine your situation.

[@jotey5129]

Declan I agree with you completely. Same here

[@j-69]

Imo, the schooling system is one of the largest factors in this.

[@sexypianonotes6212]

joe i agree. Most of the school systems literally everywhere are faulty for that.

[@caralho5237]

Bunch of losers spoonfeed you useless knowledge, then ask you questions and force you to answer them If you dont, you may never get to have a stable job

[@squeaky2384]

I'm so lucky to have a father who pushes me to do my best. He's taught me moral values, introduced me to Scouting, and he supports my choral, math and science hobbies. I work out pretty regularly, I've done All-State Choir for 2 years, and I am 2 grades above my usual math level. I've been learning so many leadership and moral skills from Boy Scouts and plan to get my Eagle. Love you dad

[@teondrehughes670]

You cant fully expect me to turn to the world when its turned it's back on me

[@dru4670]

You almost say it like someone should be sorry 😂

[@davidthosome623]

@@dru4670 can you blame him? I'm sure every man has felt at least a few things this speaker talked about in their lives. Hes not alone.

[@theheat903]

@@davidthosome623 the world never turn its back against anyone, certain groups, certain people do. There are always people who need you. Remember, these times will not make every man weaker, some will be stronger because of these challenges.

[@nadirwoodson9321]

@@davidthosome623 all* most men have felt almost all of the things this speaker has said

[@Aaron26262]

i never realized this until just now, but it wasn't until middle school that i had my first male teacher.

[@condew6103]

Yes. Women make a big deal about getting into formerly male-dominated jobs like engineering. But nobody seems to see anything wrong with continuing to exclude men from woman-dominated jobs like elementary school teaching. Where's the "affirmative action" when men are discriminated against?

[@miguelpereira9859]

@@condew6103 I doubt many men want to be elementary teachers, like women don't want to be software engineers

[@xXTheBl4ckC4tXx]

My maths teacher has allways been male, and my enviromental teacher too, everything else has allways been female.... I went to 3 different schools....

[@kylebennett4196]

Yes me too

[@jc3teacher265]

I am the only male teacher in my elementary school. Third year in a row!

[@CivicKideZ]

Honestly, this is exactly how I was, I met my wife at my old work and she changed everything. Guys, I’m the most shallow of us all. Believe me when I say this, you’re good enough 👍👌

[@Favoki]

yeah, if you're lucky enough to find someone with low standards xd

[@CivicKideZ]

Noodle Bandit sounds about right

[@kekero540]

Maybe the reason we prefer online interaction is that we aren’t instantly hit with a 50 megaton bomb worth of anxiety and not told how to deal with it.

[@findinnen8970]

69th like on that comment... nice

[@nomadsland8322]

“50 ton mega bomb of anxiety” I usually say I “turn into a fleshy and anxious pile of mush” but I think I like yours more now lmao thanks.

[@TheChadPad]

I watched this man's educational videos in Psychology class in high school. I always thought he was so cool, and he was simply the best educator on the topics. It really gave me more motivation to want to purse Psychology. Thank you Dr. Philip Zimbardo

[@158-i6z]

Either this man told me what I wanted to hear, or what I needed to hear. But after watching the video, I feel as if my life has been understood by someone other than myself for the first time. Constantly on the internet alone, an emotionally unavailable father giving me external motivation to succeed (which I did), an unconditionally loving mother, and essentially in the "pleasure/pain mode" for a ton of time. That's my life.

[@aek72]

I heard a lot of “we need to...”. But the speaker forgot something: we need to change family courts.

[@iSeeSoundsShow]

10.000 hours spent on games by 21 ? rookie numbers.

[@XxCupcakeHoarderxX]

Yeah. What a bunch of noobs. xD

[@MindDrip]

Ironically I'm playing a video game as I listen to this

[@MegaJimbob125]

Get off it lad and create a better world for us all in the real world

[@MindDrip]

@@MegaJimbob125 That's my purpose with my videos

[@shadowboxing1729]

Theres a kid, or many kids that would create a game and sell it for $1 to One Million people, which made him a millionaire. Think about that older generations

[@Cloofinder]

In college one of my professors was praising all the women in my class and pretty much "insulted" all the guys as to why the men in the class arent reaching the womens level. I wanted to walk out of the class, but I had to "man up and take it". The professor was a man btw.

[@nsptech9773]

Just show them what you are capable of... let them know what we men can do..

[@andrewchavez5455]

That’s ridiculous.

[@MrDust2011]

Dude I have seen this before. Some real silly stuff.

[@ellycelly5278]

Probs because that teacher wanted to get into the girls pants

[@baroodkhan3131]

Dont feel bad kings!!! Treat yourselves!

[@nadirwoodson9321]

thank you I truly appreciate it I hope you have a great day

[@jeromeunder1421]

No, do not treat yourselves. you need to prove everyone else wrong, you need to prove your teachers wrong. You need to aim for the highest score and everytime you fall short, you keep working to that goal.

[@rsriddel]

thank god this is finally being said. God, how long has it been guys? All our lives?

[@rsriddel]

@A human being I remember we began noticing that teachers didn't like boys in grade school....15 years ago

[@deepalijoshi4631]

I am sorry you had to go through this. Hang in there. Egalitarianism is on the rise.

[@TheToxicGunn3r]

It's actually scary how accurately this describes my life as a 20 year old male. and how its been for a long time.

[@MrMaid14]

This video is so realistic I'm 21 years old and I confirm everything he said. Porn and game addiction is real and it's taking a big part in our life. Same as negative stuff that comes with it.

[@Onestrangebrain]

Men are waking up!

[@cilantro_4839]

@@Frozenanimeskelett I think that's why video games are so addicting. Instant rewards with very low risk. Life is full of risks. So video games are a safer option. I'm not against video games, because honestly a lot of people play them happily without issues.

[@FrostmourneFK]

@@Frozenanimeskelett The waking up is realizing that just because gaming feels good and is transiently rewarding doesn't grant a gamer a meaningful existance. You are depressed because when you turn the game off you have nothing in your life worth fighting your demons for. This isn't a criticism, this is the inevitable consequence of addiction, as the orator stated in the presentation. I was very nearly a victim to this mentality, sacrificing everything for the hours and hours I would play games when I was young... and then I also had people around me that were concerned about me. I'm very lucky for that, as they would not let me be. If they noticed I had wasted a day gaming they would tell me about it and not let me sink back into it. I was whipped around the house doing chores and cleaning until I was too tired to play the game without falling asleep. When I woke up the next morning the whole house was clean because... I cleaned it. It was always a much better feeling than anything I got from Starcraft or Half-Life or Fallout. Whenever I start on my downward spiral anymore the guilt from the meaningful activities I'm shirking to play around weighs heavily on my conscience and I can't enjoy the game. It's much more rewarding to live in the real world, as scary as it is. The risk out here has a true affect on your life. It'll hinder your ability to play if it goes wrong, and you know you don t want that... but the payoff for success is so much better than any feeling I ever got from playing a game. Beating a game is an empty feeling when compared to the joy that comes from working on your car, or cleaning your house, rewiring the basement, etc. It's time to wake up, brother. As much as you might hate to admit it, as much as you'll fight me, you know it's true.

[@FrostmourneFK]

@@Frozenanimeskelett I get what you're saying though. Sorry about the mind dump.

[@cilantro_4839]

@Yami Kibou There have been studies done on this. When you win in a game, your brain gets a rush of dopamine. That is the reward I am talking about.

[@georgejohnsmith]

"...an endless array of pornography, which we will look at in a moment". I am disappointed, Mr Zimbardo. Not even a single pornographic picture in the presentation. You are an odious liar, Mr Zimbardo.

[@youlostabetwithsatanandnow8592]

If I'm working 11 hours a day at 2 separate jobs and I use all my money funding a business project am I allowed 1 hour of video games a day? Plz?

[@aaronkottke2518]

I eat bowls of cigarettes for breakfast no! Back to the assembly line with you.

[@heckinchonker577]

Aaron Kottke I only eat ramen noodles and work 9hrs a day for only 7 dollars an hour

[@vansserafim]

Aaron Kottke no one talked about people like you. Of course you are allowed. In fact there should be more men like u. No time to be depressed and you create a business

[@middleagemoto]

Fuk yeah you are. And with your work ethic, and entrepreneriul spirit, youre destined for sucesess

[@davewolf8869]

you're gonna have to change your diet tho

[@alisquin315]

This man just summed up my entire life and I don't know if i should be ashamed or say thank you.

[@HiankoWillem]

Men, you are valuable. You are loved, you are needed. Every person is valuable, it isn't divided by gender. Man or woman, it doesn't matter. Everyone at the end of the day is human, and we have the precious opportunity to be living in this world full of beautiful things. It obviously isn't perfect, no, it has a lots of ups and downs, but, we are all human at the end of the day and we are able to change things for the better. Talk to each other, be kind, support others. If you feel like it isn't worth, or, "that has no way of helping anyone", just imagine for a second how much you needed to hear those words at some point and how you can make a positive impact in the life of others just by showing how you care for them. Some people might think wrong, but, on the other hand, you can make a difference in the day of a person, the week, or even the life. Take care and have a great day! (Btw, sorry for my English, it obviously shows that it isn't my first language, I hope it isn't to difficult to read lol)

[@arigrey8499]

I am 14 and everything he is saying is true. I have been making efforts to change and even decided to get a flip phone so I can learn social skills as well as working out everyday. I can say if your watching this in my old position.(overweight and depressed) make small goals and slowly get the confidence to change your life.

[@AverageAngel]

the way society is going is very sad. very sad, the relationship between men and women. If this continues, in as little as 10 years, this will be a disaster.

[@mikesteelheart]

It's already been a disaster for a long while. It's exponentially become more of a disaster each decade since the industrial revolution, and that accelerated in the 60's to the train wreck we see today.

[@SerenityNow331]

Nope... Forget 10 years. It's already a catastrophe. The scariest part is we haven't seen anything yet. But since you've mentioned a 10-year time frame, I predict a suicide pandemic, much lower marriage rates & birthrates as well as an increase in attacks committed by incels. I realize this may all sound like an exaggeration but let me ask you this. Did you predict this current state between men & women say 20 years ago? I sure didn't. Like a lot of kids growing up, I had dreams of marriage & starting a family of my own. Somehow, that didn't happen. I'm almost 40 and stopped trying. It's just too much energy being wasted at this point. I know I'm not the only one as the majority of my friends are in the same boat.

[@kenvuaturmikszgep6362]

@@SerenityNow331 Interesting idea. So evolution still find a way to get rid of useless men population if there is no wars.

[@davidbolha]

Less. 🤔

[@SerenityNow331]

@@kenvuaturmikszgep6362 Yeah, you could look at it that way my NPC friend. When you'll drop the "Alpha act", will you at least acknowledge that there is a serious problem right now between men & women? Say what you'll want about me, that's fine. Will you be saying the same thing to your children? To your son who's vilified? Or to your daughter who will grow up thinking the worst of men? Maybe I didn't get the point across in my last post. This has nothing to do with "useless" men or women but an attack on the family unit.

[@coinparadise]

I am addicted to TEDX, once i watch a video,i cant stop till i have watched all of them, and thank u tedx because i am learning a lot from you, greetings from europe

[@JeremyHolmes]

Don't kid yourselves... Humanity failed already. So many saw this coming as far back as the seventies and we still couldn't stop it. We are being steered into this paradigm and nothing can stop it because the masters of this world want it this way and people love their toys and sadness.

[@jimsmith9853]

It is the New World Order. Resistance is futile. You will be assimilated.

[@ibetternotseeyousimp556]

Technology is advancing at an alarming rate and people are becoming too materialized

[@shinski8114]

then fight back with force

[@brunoschoelkopf9174]

@@shinski8114 the enemy is invisible

[@envinyatar5712]

I don't know about humanity. The West, however; has definitely failed and will fall within a century.

[@RediscoveryChannel2021]

It's because our society and culture is falling apart. Nothing left to care about.

[@thenorthbear2445]

ya your right

[@wingsofpurityofficial4031]

"I'm living in a world of fantasy Reality ain't meant or made for me"

[@wingsofpurityofficial4031]

@@buschfelix4723 Yay! Someone got it

[@morinohisagi2138]

For most boys these days, it's either play games all day, or live and keep thinking about how your life is miserable, which essentially brings you back to playing games.

[@Chess-ks8lk]

I tried to find a woman. All I got was expectations, expectations, expectations... Not to mention that I was rejected 90% of the time. I gave up on finding a girlfriend. I am in my 30s. MGTOW for life.

[@tcsan93]

I asked women the question How a good relationship look like do you think? -The guy should be like this,like that,like this,like that and if the guy like this like that then the relationship can work :D was the answer most of the cases. What could be the problem here?

[@thenorthbear2445]

be your own man.. walk through this life alone.. but in that time alone better yourself the whole time

[@Jay-og4yb]

Sounds like you're mgtow But not by your own choice lmao

[@an0nd0g45]

For the boys and men out there, if this can helps anyone don't get into this victimisation confort zone backed up by some statistics. If you want to accomplish something, don't let anything to hold you back, go for it, be smarter, stronger, sharp your skills, read more, practice some martial arts, workout, whatever works for you but do some daily exercise to take care of your health in the long term. We never needed society aproval, all we've done it was despite of it, do it for your better self. Be strong, keep calm and have a nice life.

[@27jerry27]

💯

[@danstang12]

I have a 3 year old boy, he lives with his mother and I arrange to have him as often as I can every week. I talk to him and ask him questions and i want answers, you have to talk to your boys I tell him my experiences in situations , he doesn't understand but i can see he is listening. The best advice I give him is to listen and not react. But then again he is 3 and I hope our conversations become deeper as he gets older and I can share with him so he doesn't make the mistakes I made in life.

[@animateme9843]

Wow ,as a girl i will also follow this.

[@simonockas]

How is no one talking about this guy being behind the Stanford prison experiment?

[@Michael-td7hg]

Haha right enough

[@knote4958]

To be fair, that experiment was the first to really bring major insight into how environment conditions behaviors, and he himself was amazed in how he began to act (and was unaware of it the whole time)

[@notlikely4468]

@@knote4958 Umm..it didn't prove anything... It was a terrible experiment What was his independant variable...chaos? We did things...other things happened...we don't why...we don't know if we could replicate the results But we can explain the out comes thus.... That's pretty weak science Millgram (by comparison) tested and retested his hypothesis...taller male athourity figure....white coat....in the room...different promps...different groups Each trial changed a single variable evaluated against subject performance Each trial called it's shots...if we put the subject in the room with their "trainee"...compliance should decrease...it will require more frequent and stronger prompts to acheive obedience That's science... See the difference?

[@knote4958]

@@notlikely4468 1) You need to settle down a bit, no need to go on the offensive 2) I was saying that despite scientific procedures (or lack thereof), or the intended hypothesis being tested, it was enlightening in what transpired during the experiment. I'm not saying the experiment was a positive one given its effect on the participants' psychology, however there's always something to learn even from a negative outcome

[@blackmarketarmy]

@@knote4958 Agreed, ethically questionable, but extremely important insight on role behavior. 'not likely' definitely needs to chill and realize that observational studies still have merit when studying social environments. Sure it's nice at times to control for more variables but humans don't live in labs therefore it can be beneficial to have less things controlled.

[@cjxked12]

No matter how old Zimbardo gets, his goatee remains the same age.

[@usererror7007]

Yeah, late nineties

[@arturoone77]

5 years after this was posted, nothing has really changed. If anything, it has worsened. Only men care about this issue, and it's not even a majority of them. More men are now deciding not to participate in society, not to marry, not to pursue relationships and start a family... and feminists are just mocking it, laughing it off. Well, it may the case at some point that --because we stopped caring about our joint issues as a species, instead of our separate issues as genders-- we will lose our ability to interact and live with each other harmonically. Ultimately, only those who were not exposed to this new internet-bred hopelessness might be able to live according to what feels natural and desirable, instead of second guessing their every act. It's only them who won't feel like walking on eggshells or frustrated because they get told every day their issues don't matter or that they are disposable.

[@brandontietje5421]

nearly all of my friends are like this. i'm almost exactly this way its sad, and honestly i fear what the future will hold for men myself and society.

[@BNK2442]

I wish I had friends like this. All my ex friends did was playing sports and going to party to get girls. It is the main reason I don't talk with them anymore. =-/

[@brandontietje5421]

@@BNK2442 I mean it's good that they were out doing things. Some of my friends just sit around and some like to go out and some are balanced

[@slinkysattackatdawn]

He's got some points, some feel a little generational but at the same time true. He's basically saying back in my day we used to actually get out there and do things! Socializing as adults now in a sense feels demanding, we feel like everyone else or everything else is using up our time. And when we do have time we spend it on insta gratification. Our phones grant us dopamine highs ( when we expect to find something interesting to watch or read, inevitably searching for hours) and this wastes a substantial portion of our time, leading to days getting 'shorter,'. Time slips away, we blame others, and ask where it all became.

[@tomybravi3838]

Hits hard knowing I'm part of those statistics, I think my escape to the internet and video games world began in my childhood because I was often told to "man up" and they didn't want me to cry hence repressing my emotions and also I never felt like they gave me uncondicional love

[@armanmkhitaryan27]

I'm an Armenian. My brother and I used to talk with our parents at least an hour if not more as kids, definitely more. I never remember an issue of staying away from our parents in our culture. It was never discussed by us kids. The lack of communication between parents and children is more typical in the western wolds as far as I understand going by what I see and read living now in Europe. And I've got to say - only once you become friends with your parents is when you really know them, not just as your parents who you should respect and love but as your best friends, as the bestest ppl in the world :) As to porn... I'm recovering from porn addiction (hopefully didn't get to manage porn-induced ED). No more FB and stuff, real life is so much better, it is so much more bright and colorful :) And it's where your friends and parents live ;)

[@liquididentity101]

The real world is becoming less and less of a worthwhile pursuit. Jobs are harder to get, money is scarce, women have different values... Gaming is an escape from these challenges. The thing is... it's a simple, happy place to be. It is hedonistic. Boys see men divorced or working their asses off to support 3 kids and an ex-wife... and they say 'why'? They fulfil their own desires before those of others. The problem is that while they may be happy working small jobs, living simple lives, and entertaining themselves... it doesn't contribute to society. These boys/men aren't scared. They are happy. Society is scared. The old guard is scared. Things are changing and change scares the status quo.

[@scutfarkus8631]

Quite right. I don't think many people can articulate it better than that really.

[@TheBadLiutenant]

They are happy, but it's a prolonged adolescence, a selfish and lonely form of superficial happiness. If that's all a person wants to achieve in his life then he never had and never will have much of a life at all. Those things men do makes them feel like men. They work, they make money, they have a purpose, they raise children, they love women, they have friends. They are not hiding in dark rooms gaming and masturbating with noone to have a sensible and deep conversation with, God forbid someone they can form an emotional connection with. Gender roles are changing rapidly and it's hard for men out there, but it doesn't mean it should stop us from making something of ourselves and contributing to the world.

[@scutfarkus8631]

TheBadLiutenant What makes a man? A pair of testicles. See how the definition changed? What makes a man feel like a man? Well, not being nagged at by a dumb shallow bitch who is so demanding and immature that she makes a 5 year old ADHD-sugar-rush-crackhead look like a sweetie-pie, that's for sure. These guys work and make money; just enough for themselves. They have a purpose; hedonism behind closed-doors: away from a society that brands them rapists, chauvinists, murdering man-spreading-man-splaining fat lazy bums. Women initiate more divorces, they snatch the kids away from the father, they get more alimony and child support, there are enforced gender quotas which makes it easier for women and girls to get college spaces and jobs, they take more state benefits, they get the lions share of birth control... ...and we as men should contribute to the world??? *_WHY!?!?!?!_* WHAT THE FUCK IS LEFT THAT IS WORTH SAVING??? (except my pornography and video games).

[@TheBadLiutenant]

What makes a man? Being mature is one thing, wanting to contribute to the world and to humanity is another. I personally feel like life is worth living if I'm out there, closer to others. Did someone hurt you? A woman? Your mother maybe? You obviously hate women. Maybe we just have different experiences. I had women who hurt me, but I also have women very close to me who love me deeply. I know what betrayal feels like and it's awful and can harm you for life. I've isolated myself before but it's not worth it if I lose out on the life that goes on the outside. The spiritual rewards are much greater. Maybe you cannot imagine it because the most exciting things you have ever seen are behind a computer screen.

[@scutfarkus8631]

Well, there we go, it's all subjective. You've clearly had mommy issues, you keep mentioning it (and therefore projecting your experiences onto us). I believe in live and let live, as long as you're not harming anyone else. But the world doesn't work according to our beliefs. The arising of the manosphere and it's ideologies is a natural reaction to what is going on this gynocentric culture. Like the original comment points out, the old guard and society are running scared. These boys are less productive, thus less tax being paid into the system; a system that is rigged against its most prized possession. Why can't women jump to the rescue? They're (supposedly) strong and independent.

[@KevinUchihaOG]

I really like how he qualify that it's >present< hedonism that's the problem and not hedonism in of itself. Searching for pleasure and avoiding pain is not the problem, the problem is the narrow time frame some people apply this to. A realistic hedonist would know that certain pains are neccessary for greater future pleasure. Thinking about the future reduces overall pain and increases overall pleasure.

[@nemo3479]

The sad part is that the video was published 4 years ago but nothing changed for the better, it only got worse.

[@gamesboy123able]

''men have to turn on people'' alright who wants to see my anime collection? ;)

[@BNK2442]

Why I don't have any weabo friends? All my friends were idiots who didn't shut up about how many girls they picked up and how cool was the game yesterday. It is the reason I stopped talking with them.

[@MN-dd2mx]

Enter Name Me.. 🙂

[@Pikasatupu75]

@@BNK2442 lol can we switch friends? My friend is a weeb and I am looking for a gamer friend.

[@Purpial]

Did this guy ever share his anime list lmao

[@1ArcaneSword1]

This sounds more like society is failing men than men failing society.

[@Curiousboy789]

The same society created by men right?😅

[@terryrodbourn2793]

all I remember from High School Driving Class was watching the old film "Death on the Highway"! when my nephews and granddaughter also watch the same old film! God loved the small town education!

[@gregskudlarek5186]

The point he was trying to make: "It's important that boys and young men are given the same encouragement and mentorship that have been dedicated to girls and young women in recent years. Failing to provide these to *any* child causes them to dissociate from the world and from society, and this is not sustainable for our communities."What I got out of it: "Boys are slobs cause of their obsession with video games and masturbation. We need to get them away from their technologisms and back to the way things *used* to be, goddammit!" Honestly, did this guy practice his speech at all? He put WAY more emphasis on defending notions of modern young males that already exist than actually talking about solutions. The very cause he's trying to promote is hastily tacked-on in the last minute, as though he was so caught up in venting his frustrations with the newest generation that he totally forgot why he was even there! I'm seriously convinced that he put his PowerPoint together just hours before he was supposed to speak, and then just pulled the rest out of his ass. Based on this and his talk on the psychology of evil, it seems like this guy has collected a lot of data, but just doesn't have the social skills to interpret and apply it in any meaningful way.

[@dragonno6587]

TRIGGERED

[@asunis2630]

Greg Skudlarek I have to disagree I felt the facts were important and he tries to get the most across that he can not just some juicy punchline you can enjoy and forget.

[@eltonio5833]

But could you present his datas better than him though ? He's not a robot you know, and i guess he's a lot older than you.I just think he can't explain all of his thoughts in a single speech, and that's really common for people who really wanna share points rather than entertain the audience like 90% of TED speeches

[@torbjornlekberg7756]

Greg Skudlarek Well observed. That is precisely what I got out of it as well.

[@torbjornlekberg7756]

@@eltonio5833 There was far too much wrapped-in sexism to be excusable. What he said came across as a "gender equality = bad" kind of speach. Sure, he is old, but does that mean he should get away with it?

[@alexxx4434]

We are witnessing the onset of new matriarchy era.

[@G30rg31415]

Which is gonna collapse before it even starts

[@liveyourbestlife1513]

Video games are as good as any other preoccupation. Do what makes you happy men.

[@jacobjacob4139]

My point exactly, what's wrong with men staying at home & just basking in the sun or playing video games the whole day if they like it!

[@dyadyabafomyot1668]

Video games are better than women.

[@kareemabdelkhaleq1438]

Video games are Massive dopamine factories. Your brain quickly adapts by reducing its sensitivity to dopamine so you will always require more and more of it. There is a limit to how much or what kinds of video games you can play, and once you reach the levels of tolerance where it is physically impossible to stimulate yourself anymore, the collapse begins. Either lifelong crippling depression or suicide. Real life does not have such pathological mechanisms.

[@pralines100]

hi from Czech republic. I very much admire Philip Zimbard, his book and this video. I just want to say that I have to identify myself very much with this video, I am one of them. The funny thing is that when I was with an ordinary psychologist last year, he couldn't help me. This topic is not widespread in our country at all. Finally, I would like to point out that I would introduce this topic to the Czech Republic. Thank you so much for opening my eyes.

[@deangreen2567]

The reason is because from the age of being aware of the fact that we are Male. We are blamed for absolutely everything bad that has ever happened.

[@ribriddler8114]

Damn bro *We be living in a society*

[@Dennell_Mount_and_Blade]

This gets me not sure why

[@mcchicken4483]

gamers rise up

[@liltunturi1251]

more like trying to survive in a society

[@valentinralchev8531]

Let's just take a moment to notice that this was recorded in 2015. Who would imagine back then...

[@Colonies_Dev]

im so glad so many people actually cared to pay attention to this

[@xxtentagato8692]

Even watching this video makes me hopeless because i know those changes this man is talking about arent going to happen until a few decades later... or never. Even the fact that this video was made YEARS ago and nothing really changed, he is literally telling the story of my life in 25 minutes or less.

[@kittycatrina1861]

Yeah, i mean we can complain about our society all we want but nothings really going to change. Both sides are going to feel like a victim, and wish for a better future, but just look at the rest of our history.

[@YouAwakeYet]

Show this to girls and most of them will dismiss it and say man up

[@nadinemorcos7028]

Not all of them.

[@roca967]

Or, as I saw in a turd of a comment floating around here, revel in a sense of revenge for the highly dubious idea that men have oppressed women for all of recorded history. This particular person even reaches into the archaeological record, wanting 250 thousand years of revenge on men to get even, lol!

[@itiswhatitis_842]

I'm a girl, I don't feel men need to man up. I want to help men after this video.

[@antonmanu5817]

@@itiswhatitis_842 and i appreciate that

[@HiankoWillem]

@@itiswhatitis_842 Same, I feel bad for them. I would just want for every man that is reading this to know: You are valuable, you are loved, and you are not simply disposable like other comments are saying.

[@RandomNumbersify]

Why would a good man want you? An important question to ask yourself.

[@brettconv83]

I’m proud to be in my sons life and present with the mother. I spent as much free time with my sons as I can and give them all my attention

[@elyadrian8871]

The main reason I stay inside and play video games is because it's hot as balls outside in Southern Texas.

[@86joeperri]

Ely Adrian I can attest to this as I live in the also hot as balls Arizona.

[@fuentesjuanjose90]

Yeah me too it's crazy. But when winter comes I'm always outside lol.

[@elyadrian8871]

@@horrificpleasantry9474 Yeah you do. I have evidence of this since my friends went to work in Northern Michigan for a year and they almost died during winter while the locals were fine.

[@ΣΤΑΥΡΟΣΓΚΕΡΛΕΣ]

i remember that in university i had an assigment, its theme was '' quality management of honey'', and there were a group of girls that had the same assigment. while i wrote and explained exactly what the title suggested, ''quality management'' and having written almost 50 pages more, the girls team where graded higher even being out of the subject. their 45 page assigment was only quoting the quality of honey and nothing about management, yet they scored higher even when their assigment was half complete.

[@piratekingthethtaroo]

Why did that happen?

[@piratekingthethtaroo]

Right

[@ΣΤΑΥΡΟΣΓΚΕΡΛΕΣ]

@piratekingthethtaroo because , everything must be a lot easier for women. We even see it in court rooms. Women have more lenient sentences than than men. In my country they don't even convict a woman, specially when family matters like divorces and custodies. 100% of men loose custody of their children only to be completely phased out from their ex spouses, and loose touch with their children. No woman is convicted for that. In school they always enjoy better grades without even trying harder. They demand ceo positions not by skills but by percentage.

[@piratekingthethtaroo]

@@ΣΤΑΥΡΟΣΓΚΕΡΛΕΣ That sucks. But aye don't hate on women or anyone, hate the system and find ways in which you can improve it. That's the only right way to go about it. You do your best to improve yourself and the world around you, I will too! Best of luck to you!😁

[@NavnikBHSilver]

Alright so let me set the stage here for you. I am 22 years old, study at a uni of applied science to be a software engineer, with a bmi of about 22.6. Why did I choose this path? because I freaking love computers and all they offer me. I'm bisexual, but have always had a closer emotional connection to men, i.e. 95/100 times, I will pref a male vocalist in music over a female vocalist, because I can connect emotionally. Does that mean I don't come out for my emotions? no, by god no, I vent using friends online, using music, using writing, using drawing. I have been diagnosed to have Asperger Syndrome (whom are notorious for becoming savants) and have Hypersensetivity to boot. I cry more than most of my friends, simply because I'm not the kind of guy to bottle it up. And through my life, I have had 2 relationships (prior to embracing my sexual appreciation for men (aka. coming out of the closet)) that both taught me invaluable things about life and social interactions, over a combined time of over 2,5 years. So basically, 80% of all things that I need and want to do in life, are accessible through my computer. I go there for relaxation, for social interaction, self-expression, studying, working, debating, learning. I very much appreciate your concern about porn, but its the exact opposite for me: I jack off, so I DON'T think about sex all day, because it's a distraction. I play games because as you stated it is a safe and comfortable environment, but that does not mean that this is the only reason. My most valued games teach all kinds of intricate structures, making statements on society, politics, morals and empathy. In fact, I'm Dutch and have Dyslexia, games and the internet are pretty much the only reason I am able to so properly present and represent myself in A FOREIGN LANGUAGE. I am not under the pretense that my computer is my life, I am however convinced that it is my primary tool to help me get through life in a comfortable and reliable fashion; not the only one. I live my life for the real world, and just as a farmer will use a hoe every day, so too will I use my computer every day. I don't (want to) pretend that I'm the perfect person, I know I ain't, but I can safely claim myself to be a good, happy and satisfied person, having done plenty for people around me, given that I come from a working class household, being raised by a single mother. I know that in America it's a lot more messed up, but just because of that, you have no rights to claim that there is something wrong with me, or gamers in general, on such a generalized basis. I hereby personally invite you to come over to my household, monitor me and/or my friends over a year-long period, and after that THEN you can make an informed statement on the issues that are residing within mankind. For in the case of many men and boys whom do go into excessive lifestyles, it is not their fault for seeking refuge from a scary and discomforting world, as much as it is the fault of all mankind for shaping this world into what it is.

[@MikeKojoteStone]

+Navnik BHSilver I'd like to point out that Phil Zimbardo is a psychologist who did not a small amount of studies and field testing as well. He's the one who did the Stanford Prison Experiment, for example. Having read his books - and I kinda feel the need to point out that he's a much more skilled writer than he seems to be a lecturer these days - I think I can tell that he doesn't want to condemn anybody. He's pointing out a general problem and he has to make generalizations for that. He's also not infallible and not all of what he says has to be taken for granted. I think he's got a point with his basic prmise and I think he's also got a point with gaming and porn in the most general sense. Too much of anything is a bad thing. Hardcore gamres often lack in social skills, people who only get their kicks from online porn may have very skewed views on real sex and young men certainly have some problems with their role in society as of late. It's a topic we should have a closer look at. Especially in light of the newest incarnation of feminism. It's better to look at it and find out that the situation is less dire than expected than to look away and find out that we actually are in dire need of a serious MRA movement two decades from now, because nobody remembers how to 'man' anymore.

[@NavnikBHSilver]

Mike Stone If you can reduce his main argument to "too much of a good thing is bad for you", then I doubt it'd be meaningful for him to make such a point out of men and boys falling pray to it. I for one also consider it very much an issue how the modern-day feminist is more of a misandrist than a fighter for a social equilibrium (which I very much believe SHOULD happen, asap). Really, in my opinion the issue of "oh all boys X" or "all girls Y", I think we should see these things for what they are: biological labels. One cannot dispute that biology labels us, but I consider biology to be an exceptionally poor reason to go and generalize on social, emotional or mental issues. I don't give a shit whether I'm male or female, black or white, because those things don't define me. What defines me on a social, emotional and mental level, is exactly where those things are processed: the brain. Again, biology draws very thin vague lines between races and genders but these ought not to be used as an excuse or generalization. All of us are human, if men have a problem, then humanity has a problem, if woman have a problem, humanity has a problem. I do not dispute that there are issues in this world that he mentioned, I do believe that the generalizations he makes are quite inconsiderate to the fact that every person, regardless of biology, is still its own individual self.

[@MikeKojoteStone]

Navnik BHSilver I'm actually with you regarding many points. Still, I've delved too deeply into psychology to not argue for the cause of initial generalization to define a problem we can then handle on all levels of individualization. People like Zimbardo are specialists in the behaviour of groups and even whole societies. And we can't deny that there ARE things happening on that level. Cultural groups define social standards we can either stick to or part from, but we can't ignore them. Racism is a social construct stemming from the inherent human xenophobie, but having been blown out of proportion during centuries of oppression. Gender roles have their places in society and are quite resistant to change. And so on and so forth. Your race, gender and even your place of origin, hair color or your last name - all of that takles part in outlining who you will become. You start pretty much blank and you don't have much choice regarding the first colors used to fill out what will be you one day. The smarter you are the more will you take control over it - if you get the choice. But if you put up too much resistance to the direction your surrounding society drags you into, you face more and more obstacles. Don't get me wron, I'm a very individualistic person myself. I don't fit into much drawers. But I also know the price for that and I can see how many people don't want to pay it. Many, many people let the coincidental outlines of biology and surrounding culture define who they become. They adapt, in a way. Those are the people Zimbardo is talking about. He's not talking about the REAL special snowflakes out there, because those naturally defy categorization and generalization. But for every one of us who stand outside at least partially, there are dozens of people who can be pretty much generalized. The approach he has taken on other things in the books I read from him was scientific. He looked at what is - at the current state of affairs or at what happened when he conducted a group experiment. Then he asked why it happened and analyzed the mechanics behind it. He found out that the structure of the penal system makes people who are absolutely normal and considerate and even kind act like cruel tyrants. He found out that even he himself wasn't immune to let himself slip into his role in this system. Despite KNOWING that it was an experiment, it even consumed him as the controlling experimenter. That's a pretty scary discovery in regards to individuality. When I was watching the video, I was immediately analysing myself. I'm a guy, I haven't had a father figure as a child and I do like gaming. I also frequent porn sites. I still don't fit his description of what we could call the worst case. You may neither. Keep in mind that above it all we're both not from the US, but from Europe. In fact, we seem to live almost in each others neighborhood. That does make a difference as well. Also, it's just normal that there are many, many people who won't fit into his model. Those aren't the concern, though. The question is: How many people are there who DO fit. And I gotta say that I see his points in many people I know. I'd even like to say that I'm wondering for almost two decades now where certain things are taking 'us men'. I didn't start realizing that there's a general problem with the definition of being a man yesterday. I knew that already. Thus, I appreciate that somebody to whom some more people may listen is speaking up. It's high time that we sit down and talk about definitions. You mentioned the feminists yourself. We risk walking from a patriarchal society towards a matriarchal one, witching oppression dynamics around 180 degrees as we go. We can only prevent that if we become aware of it. And again I have to point out that all of this is generalized, because I don't have to worry about my masculinity. The women around me aren't raging feminists. They're actually pretty appreciative of my way to define my masculinity. But this isn't for me. It's for the guys and the people in general who haven't found a way to get by. Individualists like we both me be will never be the main part of humanity. We are a species that instinctively generalizes and it's a very long way until we will finally be able to envision a societal structure catering to all individual needs as they arise. We have to work with generalizations until then,because otherwise we don't work at any problems at all. It'll take the route feminism has taken for sure. From direly needed to somewhat over the top and into radicalized territories. Every movement does that, once the main goals are achieved. And one thing we direly need to learn is when to stop a movement that has reached its goals and slow down its momentum when it delves into the realms of power plays. That's another thing, though. I hope you understand that we aren't completely on the opposite sides of this. And I hope you don't mind me lecturing sometimes. ;-)

[@NavnikBHSilver]

Mike Stone I'm very much a rambler myself when it comes to issues like these although I will admit this might be going overboard a little. I think I know what you mean by the virtues of generalisations, but at the same time, this is a very dangerous thing to do as well. I very much hope that you are not ignorant to the fact that people tend to be unobservant in regards to things like exaggerations, generalisations and satire. I rather stick to the truth, and only the truth, even if it means that people will discard it as being a triviality. Just because a person needs to die from something before it is perceived as a threat, does not make it a valid reason to stop trying to inform in an honest and concerned manner. To appeal to shock value I find morally objectionable when it comes to serious issues, which is exactly the reason why I object to the way politics and social issues are expressed, in particular in America. "Boys are getting addicted to video games" I find equally objectionable as "Woman make 72 cent to the dollar". Because I know that these are issues hold to bigger or smaller degree a core of truth, but through the exaggeration, you'd be nothing short of flat out lying. This is perfectly fine in a normal, informal scenario, where all these perspectives are put into a more nuanced context, but not when it comes to serious, political or social issues, in a formal setting. imo, when it comes to politics, science, social discussions, or anything that is deserving of a debate ought to be in line with the numbers, the facts and the truth, and ONLY those things. Idealistic? that's something I've been accused of before plenty of times. But is it not the ideals that we ought to strife for? Is it not the truth and since changes that we strife for? Then what good reason can be given to not embody the ideals you fight for? Again, the points he presents are not necessarily false, but simply presented inaccurately for the sake of adherence. THAT is why he's having this many dislikes. THAT is why people are offended by his words, and imo, rightfully so. When you joke about the truth, but still present the truth itself honestly and sincerely, that is the standard I expect from a TED. Something he does not live up to. And I'd very much say, of all the people I know (being an IT guy, studying at a uni of applied science), I know more people that fall LESS than me under these categories, than I know people that do more than me. I do tend to be a slacker in many cases, in no small part due to video games and porn. But even so I've already got a college degree and am still studying to learn more. If I am the slacker then, then who are the people he's talking about? Or more flatly put: The people he describes are exceptionally rare within my world-view. Also something I would very much like to bring up are the virtues of video games, which he very much seems to neglects to consider. Have you heard of Undertale? A game that presents beautiful ideals, philosophies and principles to live by. Have you heard of The Talos Principle? A game that confronts peoples perception of the world and forces them to consider all the presumptions that are deeply engrained in the human mind. And again, were it not for games, I'd never have been able to reach this level of English literacy. tl;dr I value truth over impact. I see virtues and potentials in video games. I believe Zimbardo does not accurately portrait the truth.

[@MikeKojoteStone]

Navnik BHSilver There are many things you said I can't argue with. We're probably more on the same page regarding most stuff than we're not. Two things in particular stick out to me, though. Firstly, TED is about ideas worth spreading and ideas are always only one side of any coin. I'd say that it has to be okay for somebody to present even a somewhat radical idea in a TED setting, because where else could you find an audience that should be able to work with generalizations without going batshit crazy about them? Crazy in any direction, mind you. Either for or against. If the big, red T.E.D. at the wall does anything in particular to me, it makes me open up mentally. I'm willing to listen and to analyze when I see it. Whereas I'm quite likely to get quite worked up when somebody presents ideas I find objectionable in, say, a political speech. The other thing is about truth. I learned that there is no such thing as an objective truth. It's always a matter of perspective. People love the idea that there's a right side and a wrong side, but the further you get away from the hard sciences, the less it becomes possible. In social sciences, there can be many truths for all sorts of groups. In psychology the truth even becomes an individual thing. Whenever we are talking about anything social, we have to define the points of view and then bring them together and balance them out against each other. There's no other way to produce any structure that'll work for at least the majority of people. The thing is that I'm pretty sure that Zimbardo knows that. I've read enough from him to come to that conclusion. I think what he's trying to to is to define and develop another position in the whole gender discussion. A position that doesn#t directly attack feminism, but still adresses imprtant issues. Which would be quite cunning and constructive, tbh. Is he objectively right? No. Do we need something to balance certain movements out that are dragging us as a society into other directions? I think so, yes. I do see the issues he's bringing up and I'd like to point out that you see them, too. Let's have a look at the place we're at. It#s a place where we see an increase of hateful commentary with every passing year. Commentary that is mostly- not exclusively - written by young, male adolescents. The guys Zimbardo is speaking about. Now, do I agree with everything he said? Hell no! I'm a gamer myself. I know that games have their good and their bad sides. I have to agree that starting a game does lead you away from reality, though. It's like drinking in a certain way. It can lead to many problems if you overdo. It will lead to problems if you do it to flee from pressing matters- and we both know that it can be tempting to so. Gaming isn't in any way evil, but if young people are developing habits of running away from their problems and feeling into gaming worlds, that's bound to cause problems. And we can compare it alread, because it was the same with TV in a sense. Although TV isn't nearly as immersive and interactive. Now, we could go on and on about those points and others, but I think we are at a point I already mentioned. I agree with you in many ways and I think this could serve as an example. Our opposing views regarding generalization and individualism aren't going to work out, except if we meet in the middle. We can't do it at either end of the scale. We have to balance it out. I'm not suggesting to work that out in detail now. It#s just meant as an example. Alhtough if you come up with a concept to work it out that could also work for more radically opposing perspectives, I'd immediately suggest you for another TED, because you'd have an idea fucking worth spreading. ;-)

[@m_ka]

Excellent presentation! Thank you for putting soo much work into this Philip Zimbardo.

[@DS-ff6ze]

Society always had these problems. We're just aware of it now. Millennials, including myself, love the 1990's because we were just able watch cartoons and shield ourselves from real world issues. But now we're adults and we're disillusioned that real life isn't the same as we envisioned it. It's true that the economy is bad right now, but we are forgetting many of the issues our parents generation had; * Mentally ill people received very little meaningful assistance * Kids beating each other up at school was largely tolerated by adults * It was an acceptable norm for their fathers to be emotionally distant * Jobs back then had less safety standards * They never learned from their parents mistakes because it was the norm for grown ups back then to be silent about their personal business. * Air conditioning was a luxury. They had none of the technology we take for granted. * Many had 6 siblings due to lack of birth control so little attention was paid to them. * Racism was much worse

[@orobout]

I don't see your point though??, because our parents also had problems (not "these" as they are not the same) we're expected to deal through as well ? We do have a different context, and yeah, previous generation had their own issues that they managed to fix or improve, and many died in the process, too.

[@ExtravertmE]

??? ??? poP

[@konfusionxD]

The main reason for me as to why I refuse to contribute to society is the lack of quality women. Why would I want to get a steady job to support my wife if she's more likely to be disloyal than in any other era? Back in the day the majority of young women were virgins, but with feminism on the rise most of them confuse promiscuity with freedom. Men indulging in video games and porn isn't a cause, it's an effect.

[@Noelle_S.]

this 100%

[@hellajeff5613]

Tea Dawg this is very true, many men see video games as an escape, and women still trying to complain that it isnt "inclusive" enough.

[@coitusinterruptus1180]

This is why feminism is a thing.

[@coitusinterruptus1180]

HAHAHAHAHA. Of course, my dear inquisitor.

[@andrewoakley737]

Our society has a major problem with victimizing ourselves. We need to stop placing blame and accept the consequences of our reality.

[@howchen8529]

My dad is weak... Not a great example Dr Zimbardo assume all dad's are good

[@howchen8529]

@LagiNaLangAko23 more like duty so he won't feel guity

[@jcalter4675]

I get you really but I dont think he assumed that dads are weak, he said somewhere in the video that there is a negative impact to buys that have dads but only provides physical presence not emotional and psychological as well

[@jcalter4675]

But yea Its the same for me as well :((

[@howchen8529]

@@jcalter4675 Certainly.

[@howchen8529]

@@goodlife1150 Nope he act abusively around my mother.. Because she just hold it all in and doesn't fight back And they don't really live together Which is a good thing tbh.

[@nikitasichov5390]

Everyone who watched this, Realization is the first step of Change.

[@Skukkix23]

this guy deserves much more views because I personally can confirm its 100% true what he says. Give this guy more money to do more resarch

[@jumbodump]

but what if his prisoners harass each other again?

[@samjt2036]

Are we still blaming video games instead of legitimately looking into issues that boys are actually having? I thought that cliche died in the 90's.

[@slopedude3]

Sam JT I think its not the games being blamed.....its just something they notice men getting fulfilment in online spaces.

[@Obi-WanKannabis]

There's nothing wrong with videogames, but addiction is bad regardless of what it is.

[@arnavsingh7525]

Did you expect any better 💩💩✊🤦‍♂️

[@user-ys2st1eo9o]

Videogames are absolutely fine with moderation. It only becomes an issue when you play too much without controlling yourself.

[@Ioannikios174]

How was what he said invalid?

[@f3rd1n4nt]

I came here to dislike the video. I left with a lot to think about.

[@josephdugdale5878]

f3rd1n4nt I came here (very late) to laugh and sociatal expectations and now I'm leaving with even more reasons to kill myself.

[@chessmagician2024]

maybe you should try improving your life instead of just jumping to the selfish act of ending it all?

[@johnnonamegibbon3580]

I came here to dislike and left with a boner.

[@tostupidforname]

f3rd1n4nt i came here interested and ended up disliking the video

[@saif9amar417]

f3rd1n4nt ...I came here bored and I end up curious about the collective social anxiety isolation modern women have created in boys and men in general

[@michaelmuller6890]

"Boys need extrinsic form of reward" - interesting thesis. Would love him to not just mention it by the way, but to prove