Why Conspiracy Theorists are Taking Over the World - Naomi Klein | Intelligence Squared

[@cantonold7014]

The idea that power does not conspire in its own interests is the greatest con of the last two hundred years.

[@markplimsoll]

You anthropmorphize the concept "power" and should have used "the powerful" and thus "THIER" own interests. Like a few years ago, some corporations got together and claimed they would instill corporations with values about welfare of workers, social justice, environmental sustainability, etc. I wonder how stockholders reacted... Haven't heard much from that movement lately.

[@markplimsoll]

@@yyy-875 Bulloney. Ever heard of "transparency?" History proves that things improve, up to Now's Climate Chaos and wealth inequalities.

[@fredgarvinMP]

​@@markplimsollLarry Fink is still at it.

[@Ashakat42]

​@@markplimsollEh there was the "Businessman's Plot" back during FDR's day, so it does happen from time to time. To deny that groups of rich elites get together and try and plan world "betterment" is just plain silly. It happens, but there is not Big Brother, no hereditary club that has been passed down since the time of Jesus, it just different rich people over time. A bunch of little brothers so to speak who will knife each other in the back as much as work together. And even that is giving the group too much of an "it" flavor. This is just human nature unfortunately, but like I said to deny it happens is silly and dangerous.

[@rajanalexander4949]

Slickly put, but inaccurate language. "Power" (whatever that means) does push its agenda, but it's not a unanimous face without inner conflict or disorganisation.

[@kathymartin5730]

If we actually knew a small fraction of reality, we would be revolting against all authority & 1%.

[@macclesfieldman]

Have you listened to the same conversation?

[@Nushka1962]

Are you trying to prove her main point?

[@mohamedali2858]

The most fair question in this regard is who benefits from the loss, dispersion and falsity of the truth that benefits people wherever they are.

[@vinny6935]

Sorry for using three comments for my thoughts, but each one is different enough I don't want to conflate them. At the end of the interview, Naomi hit on something really important. The leadership of the left is in bed with powerful forces like Big Tech and Big Pharma. I think the leadership of the right is also in bed with powerful forces like the military industrial complex (and likely Big Tech and Big Pharma as well). People are entrenched in their beliefs to the point of no longer being able to have a civil discussion when disagreeing, but I often wonder if this is on purpose. What if Big Tech hired teams of psychologists to study how to weaponize information so that people would be upset, entrenched, and more reliant on their platforms and thus increasing their profits. The same for Big Pharma - I don't personally care if someone chooses a gender or pronouns, but I also wonder if Big Pharma sees gender transition as an opportunity to hook someone on to a lifetime supply of drugs. If we are being manipulated by powerful forces just to increase profits, everybody is a victim of a capitalist boogeyman. I'm not sure how we escape something like that. I'm ordering the book and will read it - thank you for taking the time to put yourself into uncomfortable territory and for distilling your thoughts so effectively!

[@Ashakat42]

I can't find my original post to edit, but I had written to you about how your instincts being spot on. In the 1960's companies started to realize that they can no longer do the same old same ol'. There's a famous British documentarian named Adam Curtis and he has a fabulous series called the Century of the Self here on KZbin. It is a bit dated, it was made during the Bill Clinton era. It is absolutely fantastic if not creepy. I hope you take a few days to watch all four. Thanks and good luck.

[@alana523]

Recently watched social dilemma on netflix where ex social media execs describe just that: modeling user’s behavior with AI to better cater to and promote their engagement. Tech, like art and other industries, mirror reality though, most people end up engaging with the like minded and it futher reinforces their view of the world. How ever you see the world is what you create, self manifesting prophecies

[@kokolanza7543]

So well expressed, the doubling of versions of reality. Patient and she paid the interviewer the respect of thinking about her questions. Tnx.

[@puglia5375]

It is interesting to compare and contrast people like NK and other progressive thinkers/writers/academics with their equivalents on the right. Not talking about what they say or believe, merely for now their general manner. Just sayin'

[@kokolanza7543]

Hi @@puglia5375 This is a cool idea. Here is just the first think that came to mind: There is a big difference in quality. One thing I admire is a reporter who can ask questions I wouldn't have the nerve to. I saw Amna Navaz do this with some right wing politician recently. And she didn't let it go. Tim, on "The Bulwark" did a sort of hit job on Kari Lake a couple weeks ago. Obviously she deserves it, but I had the feeling he could have really CONNECTED with her, rather than get a good one-up in there. I admire Chris Cuomo for his cordiality with political opponents while refusing to allow those who repeat what pretty conclusively appear to be lies to continue. Just quick thoughts. I could be wrong on all this, and there are great journalists I'm not familiar with. Palki Sharma was great when she was with WION. imo.

[@l.w.paradis2108]

@puglia5375 The fact that they've all resorted to name calling is what is most striking, with the fascists doing it belligerently and proudly, and the neoliberal imperialists sedulously obfuscating it. Both play DARVO, but quite differently. Hence, the constituency of people like Trump claim he's "just being honest" (!!!), and the fans of Klein claim she is thoughtful and kind. Different people are duped differently. This won't end well.

[@BunnyOfThunder]

This is really smart and interesting. I like the call out that there's important issues that aren't being dealt with, and we (that is, all of us, as a society) need to tackle those issues. That seems... productive, if we can actually get it to happen.

[@7QHook]

because people listen to Klaus Schwab and Yuval harari, and realize they have immense power and are totally insane.

[@theywerespaceships]

Klaus Schwab's power comes from wealth, which right wingers also have. What power does author Yuval Harari have?

[@7QHook]

@@theywerespaceships a vision of the future. seriously, powerful people love his idea of the future and want it - immortality.

[@theywerespaceships]

@@7QHook So you don't actually know, or can't specifically describe, what you're afraid of.

[@7QHook]

@@theywerespaceships you asked about power. the totally insane part is shutting down food production

[@theywerespaceships]

@@7QHook Who's doing that? Please be specific.

[@Rhythmicons]

Conspiracy theories have always gained significant traction in the United States.

[@fredgarvinMP]

Especially when true.

[@Rhythmicons]

Tinfoil really does work!@@fredgarvinMP

[@fredgarvinMP]

​@@RhythmiconsSo does conspiring.

[@Rhythmicons]

Think better.@@fredgarvinMP

[@fredgarvinMP]

​@@Rhythmicons Wet market theorist.

[@aristocraticrebel]

Klein doesn't like walls? Well, then get rid of Israel's walls.

[@Icimaintenant9]

A lot of projecting going on with Klein

[@evolassunglasses4673]

She's a corruption denier.

[@papalegba6796]

She's very well paid indeed to be one too. 😂

[@stasacab]

I wonder what Naomi Wolf thinks about the book or has she been totally canceled-

[@l.w.paradis2108]

Well, the first reply can't been seen no more, lol.

[@larrybedouin2921]

Cognitive dissonance. They bend their tongues like their bow for lies: 🤥 but they are not valiant for the truth upon the earth; *for they proceed from evil to evil* and they know not me, saith the LORD. {Jeremiah 9:23} He that sitteth in the heavens shall laugh: the Lord shall have them in derision. {Psalm 2:4}

[@ThePricipleOfParsimony]

When she said conspiracy theorists are the best friends "the elites" could ever have, it triggered a lot of people in the comments. lol!

[@WiiFan-1300]

Ironically it’s people like the people in Intelligence that are the friends of the elites

[@aristocraticrebel]

A lot of conspiracy theories turned out to be true.

[@scarba]

Yes, that’s true. So what do you conclude from this fact?

[@aristocraticrebel]

That the elites are obviously lying to us.@@scarba

[@scarba]

@@aristocraticrebel yeah you could have concluded that SOME conspiracy theories are true and MANY are not, and define elites. Who are you talking about or are you just parroting other people? Question everything but that includes the so called people who say they are in the know. Could it be they are profiting from selling their conspiracies? Try and use critical thinking. Teach yourself about that first.

[@aristocraticrebel]

OK bugman.@@scarba

[@wernerstapela4616]

Examples?

[@sarahjane4908]

I live in liberal Los Angeles. Ppl everywhere have fences, walls, gates, surveillance, and armed response. It’s not only the wealthy here. EVERYONE knows you need to keep other ppl out.

[@fredgarvinMP]

Mirror world people?

[@mitchinoz3787]

I get it: everyone needs to keep everyone out. That makes sense.

[@Lori-xt2lf]

Maybe they’re taking over because so many of the “theories” - important ones - are panning out. Get on board!

[@Fistfury42]

This lady is working for the very forces she claim do not exist.

[@ryang790]

Totally.

[@evolassunglasses4673]

She's a corruption denier.

[@SuperMookles]

Spoken like a true conspiracy theorist. Your sort is convinced that watching a three-minute youtube video makes you an expert in a given subject, and treat anything that you don't understand as being part of some far-reaching globalist/scientific/deep-state conspiracy. The stupidity is jaw-dropping.

[@fredgarvinMP]

Well said.

[@fredgarvinMP]

​@@SuperMooklesYour comment was censored.

[@FilosSofo]

Because official institutions have lost all legitimacy and then people is just up for grabs . Conspiracy theorizing does require bad reasoning but anyone who could offer a better narrative is just dismissed as part of the conspiracy (or just blue pilled). It's all very interesting.

[@evolassunglasses4673]

She's a corruption denier.

[@SuperMookles]

​@evolassunglasses4673 have you read any of her work? She's exactly the opposite of what you've described her as being - a sign of your profound ignorance.

[@tothelighthouse9843]

@@evolassunglasses4673 Why make such sweeping statements about a public intellectual you clearly know nothing about? Read 'Shock Doctrine'. Or anything Naomi Klein has written. She's been a critic of the greed & corruption at the top since her earliest days of public discourse.

[@fredgarvinMP]

​@@tothelighthouse9843That's the old Naomi Klein.

[@Ashakat42]

​@@evolassunglasses4673 Have you read The Shock Doctrine? You couldn't say that if you did.

[@alangiaconelli2919]

It sounds like her logic in reasoning approach is like a movie critic trying to explain what is going on in the story line. But very serious issues and consequences are trying to be addressed. So real factual logic needs to be the counter to what she judges as conspiracy theories. So if you don’t , it means you can’t. So any opinion she has has to have come from a position of bias. And she did confirm that presumptive judgment numerous time. Also there is no solutions needed to fix some problems. Not when something only needs to stop.

[@markplimsoll]

You need more logic. You anthropomorphize "issues trying to be expressed" etc. Religious people believe anything without evidence, and thus cannot accept proof they are wrong. Education is the cure, and the current problem in USA. Get local control out of public schools

[@Ashakat42]

You speak of logic and reasoning, but you bring up no solid points or individual issues for anyone to actually agree or disagree with you upon. If you want to complain that's fine, but please admit this is just an opinion not about some academic issue. If so state your premise and let's debate.

[@markplimsoll]

@@Ashakat42 Evolution created god (maybe for mammals too, or even all complex animals), and that helps groups exclusively male invent traditions to control women mostly, and everything else that organized societies to enhance reproduction (which is the outcome if Evikution in cars and toitheoaste too. Religious people "uncomfortable with ambiguity" so look to Authoritarians to allow them the lazy ignorance if "good" books. They believe without oroff, cannot get proven wrong, and ate suckers for OTGER "conspiracy" theories just like that Virgin Mary giving birth on September 11th, year 3 which Christians forget since that date marks a successful revenge by Moslems.

[@fredgarvinMP]

@@Ashakat42 KZbin deletes too many comments to have a debate.

[@Shelley-m4d]

How does she know "its not happening "? Like SHE'S the authority on everything...wow...quite arrogant and controlling. Yuk. Now i want to follow Wolf.

[@nyc_girl_in_london925]

Naomi Wolf uses nothing but Pfizer and CDC data, no conspiracy theory there. This woman is a Zionist agent whose job is to infiltrate anti-Zionist/Pro-Palestine movement on the left. I’m libertarian and this woman is so inauthentic. This is no lefty.

[@ThePricipleOfParsimony]

Bye.

[@sublimeister9630]

"The more I think about language, the more it amazes me that people ever understand each other at all." ~ Kurt Gödel Pay attention to the Zeitgeist-this means everything you absorb daily, whether it be through language or silence, symbols or emptiness, action or inaction-in other words, the over-arching milieu in which you exist in. Many propagandist will turn you into a partisan, a half-brained moron, hating the other side. Embrace all truths and conspiracies together because they mirror each other using different metaphors and symbols, but dig deeply on the concepts they’re trying to describe and you’ll realize they all lead to the same tapestries of our cosmic reality. Overcoming Dualism (Beyond Good & Evil) and seeing through the Matrix of existence by knowing and experiencing the multi-dimensionality of all that exists is your main task to BE, not become, Enlightened because the “Kingdom of God is ALREADY within you.”

[@lb19830]

Elitist snobbery has a doppelganger that looks like Naomi 😢

[@HandlesAreDumbbb]

Does the author have thoughts on why some people are more or less inclined to believe conspiracy theories? Do CTs offer someone who feels disenfranchised from society an alternate reality/story line about what’s happening to them that *feels* better, regardless of its basis in fact? People are not fully rational creatures, and definitely not all the time (myself included).

[@HandlesAreDumbbb]

Listen to “This Conservative Thinks America’s Institutions ‘Earned’ the G.O.P.’s Distrust” - Ezra Klein podcast from august 2023

[@markplimsoll]

Religious people, science found, feel "uncomfortable with ambuguity" and would rather believe ANYTHING SIMPLE without proof! They are the Rightwing Conservative Religious Traditionalists, listening to "exclusively male groups inventing traditions to control women mostly, and everything else. RELIGION TEACHES the Magic Thinking of Heavens Sins Evil & Hell, with concepts like Commandments, Obedience, Judgement, Shunning, Vengeance & Revenge, Punishment, and Torture - ETERNAL TORTURE, all primitive simplistic ideas that DO NOT WORK. The Religious NEED AUTHORITARIANS like Preachers, Pundits, Popes, Trump, Hitler etc. To TELL THEM WHAT TO THINK AND DO, or else they go catatonic like Uvalde police listening to the gunshots of an 18 year old "shooter" (ASSASSIN, MASS MURDERER!) blow away 19 people, mostly ten year olds, in Vengeance against HIS ridiculing classmates when he was ten years old. Religious Conservatives OWN TWICE AS MANY GUNS in the USA's 30% gun ownership, and own more military grade weapons. If Trump gets jailed or NOT ELECTED, prepare for Civil War.

[@tothelighthouse9843]

Naomi Klein has discussed how conspiracy theories DO explain reality for people--especially the reality of what we're feeling--just not accurately or with facts. For example, she's elaborated on the role of fear, especially fear of becoming 'capitalism's roadkill', in the turn toward anti-semitic conspiracy theories. Klein says conspiracy theories don't just explain reality/feelings; they provide simple comforting answers. It's much more appealing, Klein says, to be able to blame 3 or 4 powerful people (usually Jewish people) for global problems than to do the hard work of accepting the CAPITALIST SYSTEM itself is the root of our social & economic ills. People who are overwhelmed by the rapid social & economic changes wrought by voracious capitalism turn to comforting conspiracy theories because that's so much easier & more entertaining than doing the hard work of challenging capitalism itself & becoming politically active. She's also discussed the way the upper echelon of corporations & powerful wealthy people in our society underwrite/encourage these conspiracy theories, & feed them to average citizens. Conspiracy theories serve the purpose of protecting that echelon at the top of the capitalist system from being held accountable for their mass exploitation, & instead redirect blame onto a few individuals. She delves into your question a bit during a video from Penguin Books called 'How did conspiracy theories become mainstream? Naomi Klein Big Questions'.

[@Ashakat42]

​@@tothelighthouse9843Great reply!

[@l.w.paradis2108]

@@tothelighthouse9843 Comforting? This is elitist nonsense. And don't smuggle in accusations of antisemitism into the discussion. That's the new way to make people afraid to speak out.

[@lukasmolcic5143]

nicely framed, I feel like slowly but surely we are starting to understand what is happening, but I am not sure that we are anywhere near to getting a solution, the problems of the world which require systemic change have been battled for decades and left us with so many holes that the "mirror world" now gets to exploit, it's a pessimistic view but I don't see us either fixing those issues soon enough or making it clear to broader audiences that the mirror world doesn't have any real solutions, unfortunately the most likely scenario to me on a mid long time scale seems like the conspiracy populism will take a big chunk of power and get its chance to show itself in the role of power, with time that will create a new wave of disillusionment for their bases of support, because they won't actually change anything for the better, it might take some time for it to really get to people's heads, but I doubt we are going to dodge that phase of history unfolding, and its probably going to have really ugly consequences along the way.

[@fredgarvinMP]

There is no mirror world, those are your fellow Americans.

[@chad6738]

What if I told you you lived in the mirror word.

[@fredgarvinMP]

@@chad6738 There is no mirror world.

[@chad6738]

@@fredgarvinMP ya I know I was making a point to the op

[@fredgarvinMP]

@@chad6738 My bad.

[@DaniRaj666]

Saw her lecture end of 90s...Smart woman.

[@FinehomesofNewHampshire]

Ridiculous. Unsubbed.

[@larrybedouin2921]

Facts are not conspiracies.

[@OzzyBoganTech]

We are in WW3 and are all most likely about to die so fail to see how it can get worse all it has to do is keep going on this course and it's the end of all human life.

[@Yeetmaster3000-co4on]

After hearing this interview, this channel can now be called Intelligence Halved.

[@fredgarvinMP]

Nice.

[@MaxSafeheaD]

Second time I've seen her today. Brilliant lady, I bought her book several years ago - very insightful.

[@evolassunglasses4673]

She closing down the pushback against the establishment.

[@MaxSafeheaD]

@@evolassunglasses4673 and who do you think is "the establishment" if not billionare neo-liberals?

[@sarahjane4908]

@@MaxSafeheaDlol what about the millionaires? You sound like Bernie Sanders after he got rich.

[@DaniRaj666]

​@@MaxSafeheaDEstablishment is plutocrats.

[@MaxSafeheaD]

@@sarahjane4908 what are you, communist?

[@jmgresham93]

She may be stimulating intellectual and spiritual culture, and may be a liberal: but she is avoiding the criticism of IT companies in general which hypnotize the stock market and make the social environment even more uneven through them getting the required IPO environments for new platforms of suggestion. I am interested in her, and thoroughly disagree with paranoids that react with nonsense when facts are brought to the foreground.

[@pieintheskyguy1130]

I've always been a huge fan of Naomi Klein. Shock Doctrine is one of the most important books of the last 20 years. But I'm so disappointed to see her become, in her own mind, an arbiter of truth. Who is she to decide what is or isn't a conspiracy theory. In light of all the Covid lies of the last three years, I'd think she'd be a little more humble now. But alas not.

[@Annapana4]

I’ve never seen her. My wife told me she lives two blocks from us. That lifted my spirits as I was greatly impressed with her after reading Shock Doctrine. I thought that one day I would see her shopping in Claytons and I would smile at her for a second and looking away give her a thumbs up and keep walking. After listening to this, if I see her in the same aisle, I’ll turn around and walk away. So disheartening. 1:00

[@sberesford2523]

Naomi is a treasure. Every book explodes with well researched truth!

[@JC-oc7um]

Google this: Why we believe what we believe by R. C. Sproul.

[@fredgarvinMP]

Also Google: Spots on the Pagoda Wall by Hoo Flung Poo.

[@natnat8733]

Age?

[@katedaniels9623]

“A world without boundaries” is a United Nations goal. So does that make me a conspiracy theorist? What the UN wants vs sovereign countries are HOPEFULLY 2 different things. Just study the UN website in depth.

[@nicholaswideman6658]

Everyone engages in these kinds of behaviors on some level.

[@fredgarvinMP]

Not Naomi Klein, she's perfect in every way.

[@HomeCast-td2tu]

And please explain the excess deaths and young athletes dropping dead?

[@terenceoneill4905]

yes. and the weird blood clots in people never seen before in the last years. wonder what she would say about that. deny its real? go tell that to the loved ones of the people who died from it. tell them it's not real.

[@DAWN001]

The type of talk about we and they is so divisive. Who are they and who are we? E pluribus unum. Live and let live.

[@gitfoad8032]

Question intonation.....

[@程启明-h8e]

我眼中的阴谋论，就是一部神话小说！

[@fanaticforager6610]

#rosakiore ☂️

[@boggle272]

Great truth teller ❤❤

[@neilgerardfox]

Very interesting conversation

[@rursus8354]

Says who?

[@boggle272]

The powers that be censoring everything and crushing wrong think

[@truthoverlies1820]

This woman is nauseating

[@vincewhite5087]

Naomi’s favourite scape goat buzzword ‘Capitalism’. 😎

[@antonemilia4484]

I feel pity on you!

[@katedaniels9623]

Is she serious! Omg😂 To me this means truth is being uncovered and someone doesn’t like it.

[@mollybradshaw9336]

Just a touch of projection going on here.

[@MaxSafeheaD]

You took ten minutes to watch a half-hour video ... impressive.

[@dewolf6836]

Wrong, this is brilliant.

[@evolassunglasses4673]

​@@dewolf6836she's propping the establishment up.

[@SuperMookles]

​@@evolassunglasses4673who is "the establishment"? Anyone who you disagree with, or anything you don't understand?

[@chad6738]

​@SuperMookles no literally the powerful instructions. Like the cia, fbi, news conglomerates, military industrial complex big pharma.. I remember when the left used to fight against the man, then they just became the man.

[@vincewhite5087]

So, if you on any issue disagree with Ms Klein, she will call you a capitalist. Marx would proud, at least we got a different term then bourgeoisie, and is better then calling people Lumpenprolariat.

[@ThePricipleOfParsimony]

nice interview but I have to say...I dislike the set. lol

[@nickking-edwards9301]

The smugness, Yeesh!

[@gatewaypartners8018]

Conspiracy theories are amazing stories, naturally they have more appeal

[@evolassunglasses4673]

But they keep coming true. Even digital currency is on the cards and UBI is being trailed.

[@robertmusilbronson3118]

Mainstream narrative these days is also a disney story

[@aristocraticrebel]

The Great Reset, the Great Replacement, COVID stemming from a lab in Wuhan, even frogs becoming gay. It's literally all true. @@evolassunglasses4673

[@snowflakemelter7171]

Some conspiracies are amazing stories. But lots of "conspiracies" are facts.

[@boggle272]

The truth is a bitter pill to swallow, not appealing but once you see it you can't unsee it

[@fredgarvinMP]

Naomi Klein is on the wrong side of history.

[@sylph4721]

How so?

[@fredgarvinMP]

@@sylph4721 Pro-censorship, covid narrative believer, divisive rhetoric elitist.

[@DaniRaj666]

No she is not. She studied the power of corporate elites already in 90s. She is oldschool critic.

[@alexnorth3393]

Conspiracy theorists are notoriously stupid. They prove that constantly.

[@fredgarvinMP]

@@DaniRaj666 Now she serves them.

[@Mr_badjoke]

I understand this story BUT😊 ...it's irrelevant rele. Unless u wish to push a new narrative against us that'll surely unfold in a much more public & economic way. Seems to be preemptively done no?🤔 deniability? There is no confusion among the overtaxed civilian bottom..we kno who the enemy is always 😊

[@TWE_2000]

Yes yes we know already, brave souls like you are fighting the evil legion of doom illuminati from your mother's basement because life would be too boring otherwise and its easier to think there's some secret cabal out there intended on making your life miserbale rather than just admitting your life sucks.

[@jorgletchler1980]

111

[@dramatika116]

Her book has good points, but some are weak, like Greta 😮the worst thing for the climate change problem ever

[@evolassunglasses4673]

She's part of the problem. Also a corruption denier.