Why Cramorant is Banned from Competitive Hacked Pokemon

Cramorant is Banned from Balanced Hackmons. Here's Why.
Pokemon can be crazy sometimes.
Cramorant is banned on pokemon showdown in hackmons because it can lead to some dangerous strategies...
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[@xaroin7991]

Balanced Hackmons: Bans something that paralyses you for attacking it that then instantly dies Also Balanced Hackmons: Lets Blissey run imposter

[@Mimi-qe7qz]

I mean, cramorant can run regenerator or something, so it's fair that it's banned

[@kingwinifred4393]

Imposter blissey is fantastic for the meta and makes it incredibly unique, though. Improofing teams (making your mons beat your own mons) makes the meta the most interesting to teambuild

[@haidynwendlandt2479]

Why is imposter blissey a problem?

[@Mimi-qe7qz]

@@haidynwendlandt2479 HP from blissey goes through. So that's why imposter blissey, Chansey and Pikachu is good (Pikachu cuz light ball)

[@haidynwendlandt2479]

@@Mimi-qe7qz thanks bro

[@Pablo360able]

All the comments going “well that seems easy to beat if you just build your whole team around beating it” are simultaneously missing the point completely and *frustratingly* close to getting it

[@ink3487]

Imposter chansey

[@Nyuk_AllegedlyAtLeast]

Schrödinger's understanding

[@BlackKnightsCommander]

​@@ink3487not that hard to deal with if you actually know how to play balanced hackmons

[@SamTheFoolishMan]

Dude I love this series, they are really informative and really quick so it doesn’t get boring like a lot of longer competitive videos and im learning a lot. Banger channel 👍

[@berserkerciaran]

I love how, in Balanced Hackmons, you can't run perfectly legit Zoroark or Medicham because of Pure Power and Illusion being banned

[@nicolaistuhlmuller8718]

I think abilities are always allowed on whoever originally has them.

[@berserkerciaran]

@@nicolaistuhlmuller8718 I don't know how it is now, but I remember exactly trying to build both a Mega Medicham and a Zoroark and getting them rejected

[@nicolaistuhlmuller8718]

@@berserkerciaran that's actually true, sorry, it was Almost Any Ability that banned those abilities except for mons that already had them naturally.

[@hiei49]

The problem is that the moves you run might make the ability broken. The biggest examples are mega gengar and mega kanga. Gengar can set up with quiver dance, encore trap you, set up hazzards and Kanga can remove 3/4 of your hp with the Fairy Super fang variant.

[@hiei49]

@@GKplus8 Yeah, but later it got banned. Gengarite also got banned but base mega gengar was still allowed with another ability.

[@MouldMadeMind]

This could have been the beginning of the refresh meta.

[@KLIXORthe]

heal bell is a good move to have on your hackmons team imo

[@mario-nk7be]

Refresh is dexited bro

[@XovietYunion]

This is like in the om nature swap pyukumuku is legal wiht innards out. so you could make it 5 base defense and use it as a handtrap against any physical sweeper. pokemon doesnt work when handtraps are a option

[@fishyweeb4820]

I chain Effect Veiler to your geomancy.

[@frankwest5388]

@@fishyweeb4820 chain called

[@fishyweeb4820]

@@frankwest5388 Dangit, I control a Pokémon, can't chain Delta.

[@joooja]

???

[@sephikong8323]

@@fishyweeb4820 I activate Crossout Designator on Effect Veiler and negate your negate

[@D-S-G.]

them: lol bird paralyze everyone me with a team with no damaging moves: *yyes*

[@heheheiamasuperstarwarrior9281]

You cant activate the enemies ability if you never touch them

[@sagacious03]

I love these entries, I love the info density, but I wish could listen to more of them at a time! Maybe if there was a compilation video of a bunch of them? Still, it's hilarious. Thanks for uploading!

[@FreezaiPokemon]

There's a Playlist on my channel called here's why

[@StarryOak76]

@@FreezaiPokemon yeah, but KZbin’s ad density nowadays means that’d be, like... every few minutes, or even less, an ad. With a compiled video, that would cut down on the ads significantly, or at least, I’d hope it would.

[@ITSONSIGHT.]

@@StarryOak76 uh... AdBlock?

[@StarryOak76]

@@ITSONSIGHT. some people use the KZbin app on their iphone and therefore can’t use Adblock?

[@laytonjr6601]

@@StarryOak76 KZbin Vanced?

[@Goblin_War_Buggy]

man the meta has changed a lot since i last played RIP balanced hackmons shedinja my glorious team of 5 different shedinja sets and an illusion aggron shall be missed

[@davidegaruti2582]

Yeah , using your brain to counter op strats is actively discouraged now

[@RSmeep13]

@@davidegaruti2582 did you speak up in the thread about the ban? Cramorant was described as follows, "Cramorant-Gorging, which to many saps the joy and entertainment of playing bh, is able to warrant enough reasoning for a quickban." I would agree. I think it's a pretty reasonable ban. There wasn't much dissent at the time. Nobody liked the cramorant meta.

[@nicolaistuhlmuller8718]

@@davidegaruti2582 username checks out, your comment gave me a stroke. Nice troll.

[@Loris71734]

Well it doesn't seem like you really knew the meta too much anyways. Why would you use Imposter Aggron? It only has 70 HP and doesn't get any unique items. And on Shedinja, if you played before Gen 7 it was a very good Pokemon but there were multiple ways around Sturdinja and stacking 5 of them on a team would make it extremely hard to circumvent those answers. But once gen 7 introduced Moongeist Beam and Sunsteel Strike Shedinja hasn't even been that good since.

[@Goblin_War_Buggy]

@@Loris71734 I counter: sturdy shedinja with Imprison Sunsteel Strike Moongeist Beam Thousand Arrows :sunglasses emoji:

[@NobodyDungeons]

What I ended up doing to counter it was to use an electric type or a pokemon with quick feet because they are immune and get fast when paralyzed respectively then can 1 shot the 4x weak Cramorant

[@RaceBandit]

Lum Berry also comes to mind. _(Technically there's Limber, but who's using their ability slot on an immunity to one status?)_ If Cramalamadingdong's gone anyway, having to build ... a one-shot status immunity ... must've been too ... sorry, I can't take the ban argument seriously when I break down the check like that.

[@nicolaistuhlmuller8718]

@@RaceBandit the difference between Gulp Missile and regular paralysis moves is that Gulp Missile is unavoidable though. What use is your paralysis immunity if it switches into another mon to paralyze it?

[@NobodyDungeons]

@@nicolaistuhlmuller8718 Well if it switches into another pokemon I either get chip on the pokemon coming in, or I can just switch out rather easily. Additionally, you can run light ball on a pokemon with quick feet to auto paralyze them giving you the speed boost anyways, and people in balanced hackmon's often fail to grasp the usefulness of immediate power since boosts are so prevalent.

[@watery2211]

@@NobodyDungeons So if I'm getting it correct, you are talking about a situation where cramorant is facing against your para immune pokemon. Which would never happen since no cramorant would ever come in against a para immune pokemon. even If you predict the cramorant and switch out into your para immune pokemon, you still lost all the boosts you got trying to sweep his team and this whole things starts all over again. Good job getting the chip, when everything has recover. And why would you ever run quick feet with para? you are basically giving yourself a 25% chance of not moving, for 1.5 speed boost. You could always use a choice scarf, but no you gotta sac the ability and 25% as well for not being able to lock yourself into a move. I mean, if you think people in BH fail to grasp the usefulness of immediate power since boosts are so prevalent, why don't you go play some BH to teach them about how it is so useful lol.

[@AmberLB93]

@@RaceBandit cramorant-gorging is ban worthy but imposter blissey is balanced (sarcasm)

[@danielhale1]

I love how "done with this" the pikachu looks

[@off-the-grounder568]

It’s tired of getting shot at Legendaries.

[@liberty2087]

I'm kind of surprised they didn't try to play around it with Poison Heal or magic guard toxic/burn orb or aromatherapy

[@O.W.L.E.]

I do not play the tier, but those were my thoughts as well. I figured there would be some prominent sets with Poison Heal, Guts, or perhaps even something like Comatose.

[@nicolaistuhlmuller8718]

There are just two problems with this: 1. it can still paralyze any member of your team that doesn't have an ability like that. If you have one paralysis immune member on your team it's pretty much worthless if Cramorant switches in on another one. You'd practically need an ability like that on every team member and 2. those abilities can fundamentally weaken you. Imagine playing an offense team where every mon has guts + flame orb but then meeting an opposing team that doesn't care about Cramorant and just uses the full offensive package bh has to offer.

[@stealthgamer4620]

Having multiple mons w these abilities and moves becomes a waste, that’s why there’s usually only one “support” on their team, maybe 2. There’s also an ability clause, not allowed to have multiple mons of the same ability, noting this, abilities like comatose and poison heal on every Pokemon “could” be useful. In old BHackmons you used to be able to have 6 mons all copy and pasted, but can’t do that anymore. Another counter would be electric types since they can’t be paralyzed, but literally no electric types synergies well with a BH team, Zekrom and Magnezone are the only possible tanks. Magnezone kinda sucks now that you can’t use Magnet Pull. There is Regileki, I suppose have it as a pivot mon, btw C-Gorging is another pivot mon, It’s kinda difficult because there’s no way to bypass Focus Sash, which is a good thing, on the other hand, that’s what made this pivot mon very strong. I believe his form resets to Gorging when you switch, so another broken reason.

[@Jotari]

Why play around something when you can just bitch and get it banned?

[@technicolormischief-maker5683]

@@Jotari Maybe because it’s extremely difficult to play around and puts you at a massive disadvantage if you don’t also use it yourself?

[@scrafty8240]

You earned a sub from me, i pride myself in my knowledge of pokemon but yet i learn something new on your channel whenever i see it.

[@invaderzin1858]

Vasko games has a bigger reason to love it,

[@Fvckallofyou1]

wat

[@agentblackbird9435]

@@Fvckallofyou1 a Splatuber named Vasko Games likes Cramorant. It’s his favorite Galar Pokémon.

[@johnmartinez7440]

Never quite realised what a nightmare the Gorging form combined with Rocky Helmet would be

[@sta15]

Aw man poor Pikachu I hope he's okay

[@XtheGAMEmaster]

I was actually one of the early adopters of Cramorant-Gorging before it was banned!

[@zad_rasera]

How did it feel to be hated by everyone

[@kingofcrap4414]

@@zad_rasera What the heck, man, that's rude.

[@maguirebentz797]

Love your channel, I’ve seen lots of your vids in my feel lately and they are amazing. Love the concept for the channel! Keep up the amazing contebt

[@TehFoamy]

I was watching a video on another channel about Comatose + Sleep Talk in Balanced Hackmons, and someone posted a comment about CFZs in the early days of Gen 7 BH. I think it would be a neat idea for you to make a video on!

[@TheDunsparceGames]

cfzs were stupid because you could slap a nuke onto just about anything with a decently high attack/special attack and remove a so called “counter” with a single button press there was an entire team built around cfzs with 5 deoxys-a and a scarf pheromosa with the objective being click as many cfzs as possible one deo-a used harvest and a leppa berry which allowed for effectively infinite cfzs volt absorb mega gyarados was viable just to beat this one team and even then you could tailor one deoxys to beat that comatose sleep talk was degenerate of the highest degree because if you didn’t have anything to stop whirlwind or dragon tail/circle throw phazing (magic bounce, magic coat, ingrain, suction cups) or had magic guard on multiple mons you lost automatically the instant hazards got up and the comatose user got in

[@mjdxp5688]

Still waiting for Normalize Entrainment ghosts to get banned.

[@nathaneastman5556]

Its balanced cuz they get hard countered by opposing ghost types

[@Holacalaca]

You should talk about the Gen 6/7 Xerneas build that literally only ran moonblast and I THINK sleep talk

[@diegonava3828]

Ahh yes the xerneas set who ran choice scarf with Moonblast, Sleep Talk and occasionally Geomancy. Gen 6 Ubers was wild

[@jamirimaj6880]

why is the bird itself not paralyzed though when it has literally an electric mouse monster in its mouth?!?!

[@Slushea]

Even when everything goes, some things are still utterly broken

[@GenesisSDG]

I'm not sure if I saw this right, but it goes back to having a pikachu when you swap out right? Cuz that makes much more sense why it was banned then.

[@TheDunsparceGames]

yes, if cramorant-gorging is selected in the builder and it has gulp missile, switching out will put it back into gorging

[@Karpnado]

Makes me laugh a lot when I see these very under utilised Pokemon getting banned :')

[@Karpnado]

@Fremzyx In the main game.

[@Karpnado]

@Fremzyx Was there any point to messaging? Lmao

[@TheTuneAce]

As someone who's played BH off and on for a few years, this ban doesn't really make sense because BH isn't a hyper offensive tier to begin with. High level play is very much stall. Nuzzle is already somewhat usable, but mainly the popularity of poison heal + toxic orb easily counters status. Protective pads would work too, along with heal bell (or using an electric type sweeper). Cram's stats are also pretty mediocre for the tier. In the end though, stuff like innards out has been banned (an almost guaranteed 1-for-1 trade ability). So probably the intent is to remove abilities that don't require user interaction to cripple an opposing mon, regardless of how effective it is. Pushing for user interaction as a whole for the tier (rather than just autopilot answers) makes sense for the health of the tier

[@nicolaistuhlmuller8718]

Another problem is that in order to counter the strat you'd need Poison Heal + Toxic Orb or a similar paralysis answer on every single mon in your team. You can't switch out on a gulp missile, this is not like Nuzzle where you have one immune mon that just switches in all the time. Any single time a mon of yours attack, it has a chance of attacking into a Cramorant and getting paralyzed right away. You could at best predict the Cramorant switch, but that doesn't even do anything but force it out.

[@UnknownVir]

Switching is the highest priority "move" possible so it's like nuzzle if every Pokemon had very high priority nuzzle as a fifth move and it also always did 25% damage

[@codenamec.a.t2480]

The issue is how easy it is to exploit Poison Heal. If your opponent NEEDS to go to their PHeal mon every single time, you can simply Flip Turn and get free momentum. If you want to attack a fast, frail breaker like Spectrier, then Cramorant can come in and neuter your offensive answer. Even defensive teams need to be careful. 25% is massive chip to take, especially with how spikes oriented the tier is. Additionally, paralysis is often used to hax breakers through defensive checks. It’s for these reasons why Cramorant is banned

[@CheesyCore]

if talking about hackmons, why not talk about why neutralizing gas eternamax is the single most centralizing hackmon in history and how nature bonuses are calculated in SWSH? (its *90/100 for negative nature, *110/100 for positive nature, making eternamax able to overflow one of his defense stats)

[@phdskyla5026]

Pure Hackmons is just pure cancer eternamax was a mistake

[@CheesyCore]

@@phdskyla5026 imagine getting totally walled by a pinguin with frozen head

[@Generatrix]

@@phdskyla5026 burn out growlithe with wonder guard and focus sash

[@phdskyla5026]

@@Generatrix The move is called Burn Up.

[@epictoast]

​@@Generatrix neutralizing gas:

[@airtempest8945]

Cramorant is one of my favourite mons to play with because it's so fun to use as a stally mon with Stockpile since it burns the opponent every time they try to attack, and has innate recovery. The moment I saw Cramorant Gorging, I'm like "I'm ready to see some degenerate BS, aren't I".

[@Ultra289]

So on balance hackmon I can just use any pokemon with magic bounce if I wanted to? Never played that thing

[@ITR]

Yes, magic bounce is super useful

[@nicolaistuhlmuller8718]

Yes but a lot of status users run Mold Breaker for that exact reason.

[@Ultra289]

@@nicolaistuhlmuller8718 Well, you can still taunt them right?

[@nicolaistuhlmuller8718]

@@Ultra289 your taunt needs to be faster though, and hazard setters will often get out a layer before you can switch your taunt user in.

[@epictoast]

you can do wonder guard air balloon electric types if you want

[@Jw87563]

Electric types, Ground types, Guts, and Quick Feet: Are we all a joke to you?

[@alexanderpayne2288]

Great vid but please get a pop filter it would vastly improve your mic pops whenever you announciate the letter p

[@AI-DreigonGPT]

We makin'outta every tier with this one 🗣🔥

[@jaal426]

but in a tier where you can give literally anything limber or heal bell or whatever does it really matter

[@nicolaistuhlmuller8718]

Would you run 6 limber mons just for that?

[@idkbrett]

Turn up your input volume homie. I have to max out all levelers to hear you lmao

[@williamhowes3010]

OR you could use an electric type and forego the whole "perma para" situation.

[@sptflcrw8583]

Yes, let me use all electric types,

[@sptflcrw8583]

Not to mention electric types can still get paralyzed

[@williamhowes3010]

@@sptflcrw8583 I detect some sass coming from your "general" direction lol. CLEARLY I said use an electric monotype team, not "use an electric type" hahaha 'Cause, you know... Having counters to top tier threats is just a thing crazy people do 😂

[@kikiretzorg1467]

Limber has entered the chat

[@sptflcrw8583]

@@kikiretzorg1467 ah, yes, give up all my Pokemon's abilities, what easy counterplay

[@bernardo8102]

Will u upload all this videos on this channel?

[@sant41]

That's why pure hackmons it's better baby, sturdinja, wonder guard, and mold breaker

[@minigungameryt2525]

i think you meant eternemax stat overflow and ohko regileki

[@AztecCroc]

Mold Breaker and Wonder Guard don't work on Gulp Missile.

[@excalibur493]

I remember destroying a shedinja team in gen 7 hackmons with prankster deoxys defense. Absolute beauty.

[@clintonanderson7436]

@@excalibur493 Same here but mine was in gen 6 with deoxys speed

[@epictoast]

no guard ohko spam regeleki:

[@MsCuriousinferno]

Metrosexual the xerneas made me laugh so hard I started coughing

[@dse763]

I suppose there's no interaction with Volt Absorb or Lightning Rod ?

[@fredrickthecatfish8661]

I honestly can't see how cramorant is more busted than half the legal meta strats in balanced hackmons.

[@mikewood8077]

a free par for just exsisting if they attack you and -25% health while u can still run a abillity

[@TheDunsparceGames]

@@mikewood8077 you needed gulp missile, so no you couldn’t run another ability your first point was spot on though

[@mikewood8077]

isnt gulp missle what activates it but i dont think it needs to it work if its already in the form

[@mikewood8077]

@@TheDunsparceGames ok yea thats my bad but free par one getting hit is still broken

[@nathaneastman5556]

What legal strat is more busted than getting paralyzed by attacking

[@thenorfnonly3486]

So, you could use Merciless Crobat? Ooh…

[@kikiretzorg1467]

Some of the most common stuff I saw back in my day was Magic Bounce Giratina and Impostor Blissey.

[@nicolaistuhlmuller8718]

Yes but Merciless isn't really a good ability honestly. The tier has stuff so ridiculously degenerate (Magic Bounce + Recover Registeel for example, which is even bulkier than Shuckle with a better typing) that having a somewhat mediocre mon with a 50% boost against poisoned targets just isn't all that impressive. You have stuff like Adaptability after all.

[@nicolaistuhlmuller8718]

@@thenorfnonly3486 I mean it's better than its other somewhat situational abilities, but it's not THAT good honestly. You'd need another team member to set up toxic spikes for you and they are kinda easy to remove, so the ability is situational too. It can hit pretty hard though if it works and most importantly keeps the item slot free for something like a Choice Band on top, something that the bottom tier physical Swellow never had for example. So yeah it would be an improvement but still situational.

[@richardweichert5727]

I might be wrong but didn't you post this video like a week or two ago? Is this a repost, or did you edit and remake that video?

[@joooja]

I think he's reposting videos that don't do too well, sometimes videos take off sometimes they flop so kinda makes sense

[@Qaos]

I still think Shedinja should be unbanned.

[@opossumleader3645]

For shedinja it's literally just plan for it or die. You either get swept or get an easy win. Really uncompetitive

[@ITR]

@@opossumleader3645 Most stuff is plan for it or die though: Super quick setups Imposter Toxic Heal Prankster Pixilate/Refrigerate with fake out + espeed All of these I take account for when making a BH team, the only common one I feel like I can somewhat get away with not countering is paralysis.

[@TheDunsparceGames]

maybe when pursuit returns we can talk about unbanning shedinja

[@Qaos]

@@TheDunsparceGames I used to play Gen 7 BH a lot, 'n' I never once encountered pursuit. Though maybe I was too low on the ladder, I dunno.

[@ASmarterThanAverageSeel]

YEAH YOU GO CRAMORANT!

[@zhang6754]

Couldn’t a burned guts pokemon counter this

[@psyxypher3881]

No seriously what the hell caused Magnet Pull to get banned?

[@noelmakarth156]

they never heard of safeguard?

[@iantaakalla8180]

The idea is that they don’t want to be running all the Safeguard mons or even a few to prevent instant paralysis. It’s a sign of an unhealthy tier when you are guaranteed a bad status that you must use a Pokémon that prevents status. Also, Safeguard is inherently a bad ability because you’re just blocking statuses. If the opponent just attacks you or uses you for setup fodder and you can’t do anything back because you can’t gain a status, then that means your Pokémon was built bad, or that you clearly brought in the Pokémon hoping to avoid the 100% paralysis chance. I mean, you’re not inherently hopeless if you’re running, let’s say, Latina’s, which is strong and would use Safeguard, but that’s an exception since Latina’s was already good. It also means statuses would cripple it so it may just run Safeguard to prevent that since Toxic against an overwhelming bulky Pokémon. Most safeguard Pokémon are stuff like Butterfree, Ninetales, Dewgong, either Mr. Mime and Mr. Rime, Lapras, Meganium, Altaria, Chimecho, Gorebyss, Luvdisc, Bronzong, Lumineon, Togekiss, Vivillon, Slurpuff, Carbink, and Drampa. They may be able to pull their weight or not, but none of them are getting far with Safeguard. So running even, let’s say, Togekiss with Safeguard is clear that you’re running Safeguard Togekiss to avoid Cramorant-Gorging’s 100% paralysis chance.

[@Copyrightbreaker22]

This is one of the most beautiful bans

[@benrowinsky1057]

Couldn’t you just run flame or toxic orb? Then you couldn’t be paralyzed too. Unless I’m remembering statuses wrong

[@Alomoes]

just giving me ideas for an unbalanced hackmons team.

[@kingwinifred4393]

you mean pure hackmons?

[@KLIXORthe]

as a hackmons vet I really don't get how this is all that good. best case you're mindgaming an opponent with anemic offensive balance, worst case they have heal bell or a poison heal or electric attacker. I never saw it get used except maybe a couple times.

[@MegaKBang]

Smogon players are literally scared by anything

[@LRXC1]

Thats really interesting, nice vid

[@Ickygrunt]

Y’all forget about the ability limber

[@pyro6698]

i remember terrorizing low elo ou when cram came out

[@noobiesensei6281]

Because a berry wasn't good enough of an answer.

[@anima4971]

Please tell me this is sarcastic 🤣

[@bestaround3323]

@@anima4971 What? It is true. A berry wasn't a good enough counter.

[@sptflcrw8583]

?

[@iantaakalla8180]

Even a berry that cures paralysis is not enough because you have to kill Cramorant in one turn, and since Cramorant was made unreasonably bulky, it might actually live a strong hit and be able to become Gorging form again against that very same Pokémon that had that berry,

[@nathaneastman5556]

But if you don't one shot it youre going to get paralyzed again...

[@sshadowzlmao]

Huge power, wonder guard, arena trap. Banned

[@teeweezeven]

That list of banned abilities is really interesting. I wonder why all those got banned

[@jacksonsmith2955]

@@jakobr_ some extra notes: - contrary is completely broken when combined with moves that lower several stats like the 180BP V-Create (which boosts def, spdef, and speed), 120BP Superpower (boosts def and atk), and 130BP Draco Meteor (boosts spa twice), which makes snowballing stupid easy. - Wonder guard is even more potent than you might think, as a pure electric type (or dark/poison type like Drapion or Skuntank for that matter) becomes immune to all attacks if holding an air balloon - Innards out: not... really sure what your description is about, as false swipe can't kill anything and high hp is a ground type move, but yeh basically automatic destiny bond you can't know about when it works

[@LightningStrike07]

@@jacksonsmith2955 About the Innards Out comment: He's saying that you need to use False Swipe and then land the finishing blow, meaning you'll only take 1 point of damage from Innards Out which is the second-best case scenario And I think he meant to say High Jump Kick instead of High Horsepower

[@nicolaistuhlmuller8718]

@@jakobr_ Stakeout essentially makes every move a kill confirm. Either your intended target stays in and dies or the opponent's answer switches in but thanks to stakeout it dies too. There is just plain no need for a prediction anymore, you just know your move is gonna kill something.

[@elneco4654]

@@jakobr_ "apparently" Huge/Pure Power doubles the Attack stat. Gorilla Tactics is quite literally a natural Choice Band (yes, you can use a Choice Band on top for a whopping 225% attack boost), has been talked in this channel before. I think the issue with Water Bubble is actually the burn immunity. Intrepid Sword looks a bit mild in comparison. But imagine that on ANY pokemon you want, including forms such as megas.

[@nathaneastman5556]

Most of them are obvious

[@Pika250]

Speaking of Pikachu, him with air balloon with wonder guard, with the gigantamax factor too? If wonder guard was not banned, he would be way too unkillable. You would be forced to rely on passive damage (burn, poison, leech seed, etc.) or using something like trick/switcheroo on his item or entrainment on his ability and then following it up with the appropriate attack, but then he'll most likely tag out by that point anyway. How ironic that Shedinja and wonder guard were banned from bh but not because of each other.

[@robinsimon4176]

or, you could use any of the gigantamax gen8 starters who have gmax moves that ignores abilities, or mold breaker. or moongeist beam or sunsteel strike. or thousand arrows. there are a lot of options, even good options, to deal with mons like that, if you dont use them, the loss is on you

[@camoking3609]

@@robinsimon4176 sweet memories of moongiest beam espeon

[@Demoonz]

@@robinsimon4176 1 word. S w i t c h

[@tysondennis1016]

Cramorant is a fun gimmick mon

[@gprconstruction]

How to train with metroneme

[@329link]

Shit, here I was thinking that form was little more than a joke.

[@granddefectus4602]

The whole tier is flawed due to the maxed out EV structure, which incentivises mons with good-all-around stats

[@J242D]

Gives gen 2 evs vibes, hence why competitive gen 2 games last 200 turns

[@nathaneastman5556]

It sounds unbalanced in theory but the sheer buff on offensive balances it out

[@electricnezumi]

I don't play Showdown anymore, but I played a lot back when Shuckle was banned from Ubers. This reminds me of that

[@RaceBandit]

Wait, how did *SHUCKLE* get power-crept into AG?

[@copenwiththestress]

Shuckle was never banned from Ubers?

[@nicolaistuhlmuller8718]

Shuckle was never banned from Ubers, what are you talking about?

[@kingofcrap4414]

This person is clearly from an alternate timeline where Shuckle is one of the most dominant Pokemon in the world.

[@owentithof]

@@kingofcrap4414 aka the correct timeline

[@alis6581]

It's balanced Hackmons everything is broken here

[@s0vietb3atle]

Why is Galarian darmanitan banned

[@ZacharyT94]

Darmanitan Galar Zen is crazy powerful with the Turboblaze/Teravolt/Mold Breaker ability and is very hard to check due to how hard it can hit. Base 160 attack and base 135 Speed is frightening (Refer to Zacian-C ban due to crazy high attack and speed as well as not being restricted to intrepid sword). Almost everything is gonna get OHKO’d or take massive damage from a DGZ V-Create.

[@TheDunsparceGames]

@@ZacharyT94 the addition of ice rider calyrex (more specifically it’s signature move glacial lance) pushed it far over the edge because not only did it have a 180 bp stab fire move but it had also had a 130 bp stab ice move as well

[@ZacharyT94]

@@TheDunsparceGames I forgot about Glacial Lance, that’s of course going to push it over the edge.

[@thetruthisfreeofficial]

What is bh?

[@nathaneastman5556]

Balanced Hackmons; you can use unbanned abillities and moves on any unbanned pokemon in the tier and you can put max EVs in every stat.

[@pettyjones]

They banned nuzzle lol

[@soundrogue4472]

okay hang on a second; WTF???? A PIKACHU IN THE MOUTH????

[@polygondeath2361]

Why is stakeout banned?

[@SquibbyJ]

Stakeout prevents Pokémon from being checked. Works like shadow tag except you don’t get to know they have it until it kills something it shouldnt

[@D-S-G.]

Stakeout and Water Bubble's bans are showcases of what happens if a better mon got these busted abilities tied to weaker mons

[@polygondeath2361]

@@D-S-G. araquanid wasnt even that bad, it was a great suicide lead that could stand up against some major OU threats, notably greninja-ash

[@DemonRaticate]

Giving Stakeout to something overwhelmingly powerful basically means nothing can switch in unless immune. Most checks can take a hit and threaten to 1 shot by outspeeding or can take 3 hits, but with Stakeout suddenly your check is nuked. This is also in a format where everyone or no one can have it, so you’ll never know a pokemon might have Stakeout til they have already put you in checkmate.

[@appelofdoom8211]

@@polygondeath2361 I think they mean weak in terms of stats. Because araquanids offensive stats are pretty mediocre yet water bubble still lets it be a wallbreaker

[@savioferreira8684]

Lum berry and limber exist

[@gnammyhamster9554]

can't you just equip toxic orb or something

[@MouldMadeMind]

So you lose your item slots and all your pokemons are now slowly dying?

[@ravio5868]

@@MouldMadeMind Poison Heal

[@sptflcrw8583]

@@ravio5868 yeah, I'll just give up all my item and Ability slots to counter one pokemon

[@ravio5868]

@@sptflcrw8583 All you need to do is have it on one Pokémon and slap it with an electric move.

[@sptflcrw8583]

@@ravio5868 literally anytime you attack it could switch in

[@aubeary190]

i love cramorant

[@arnenesbye2420]

Honestly it sounds good, but not broken

[@Viktor_Von_Doom]

Tl:dr guaranteed para will always be OP

[@bdouggie5675]

Yes! Cram should be RU!

[@Joandersonso]

That's fucking hilarious

[@doyouwantsli9680]

Bullshit rule - Banned because it wasnt what they wanted the game to be, not what's overpowered. Thunder wave is not overpowered.

[@codenamec.a.t2480]

You do know how Gulp Missile works, right? Cramorant is banned for the same reason as Arena Trap. There is counterplay, but it’s too automatic for anything to be done about it. You can’t simply not attack the opponent, that’s just ridiculous.

[@dnr-vs1lk]

cramorant

[@LunarKnight26]

Two bad this can be handled two different ways. But sure ban it.

[@nicolaistuhlmuller8718]

Yeah, running 6 mons immune to paralysis or wasting a move and giving a potential setup opportunity for Heal Bell on every single team. Completely healthy. Let me tell you a secret: there are multiple ways for the lowest tiers to handle Kyogre. Does that mean it should be allowed there?

[@LunarKnight26]

@@nicolaistuhlmuller8718 you are saying there is way to beat kyorge. Like there is a way to beat this combo. So yeah it should be allowed. There is a way around everything.

[@nicolaistuhlmuller8718]

@@LunarKnight26 the last sentence is true, but it's the exact reason why "a counter to it exists" is NEVER an argument against any ban, or otherwise Zacian-Crowned would have to be allowed in the utter bottom tier because Quagsire counters it. Just look at it that way: as soon as you'd allow Zacian anywhere, every single player would have to add Quagsire to every single team regardless of synergy. Also since everybody now has to use Quagsire, a lot of other water and ground types would no longer be used. Is that your idea of a diverse and strategic metagame? Forcing Quagsire onto every team by default?

[@fujiwaraofmokou]

“Ban Cramorant” mfs when they realize Static, TWave, Nuzzle, Body Slam and Glare are allowed in OU (that’s a bad thing)

[@TheDunsparceGames]

unban cramorant mfs when they realize that cramorant can paralyze something just by existing meanwhile all those other moves have to connect plus it can paralyze things again by switching out and coming back in (that’s a bad thing)

[@fujiwaraofmokou]

@@TheDunsparceGames unban Cramorant mfs when they kill themselves brutally in the name of Cramorant.

[@formerhunter2]

not gonna lie, it's BS that they banned Contrary. That ability was so much freaking fun.

[@julianokohlerdasilva3629]

It might be fun, but it still is way too broken to be allowed

[@aaronking2020]

This is why competitive pokemon sucks. If everyones with the same 20 legendary pokemon that's just people properly utilizing the meta, but the moment anything interesting hits the mainstream it's banned.

[@excalibur493]

Agreed. I can understand some things, but Smogon tends to be braindead with bans and start snowballing them.

[@nicolaistuhlmuller8718]

@@excalibur493 like what? I always see comments like that but no one could ever give an example of when something like that ever happened.

[@nicolaistuhlmuller8718]

Yeah, totally interesting to potentially get paralyzed every time you attack.

[@watery2211]

@@excalibur493 Like what? I think most bans in gen 8 OU were pretty needed. If you are gonna say the slush rush ban I do agree banning slush rush from beartic was kinda dumb, but was reasonable tho.