Why Dandori Battle Was A Disappointment

Pikmin Versus Retrospective Part 1:
• Pikmin 2's Overlooked ...
Pikmin Versus Retrospective Part 2:
• Why Pikmin 3's Bingo B...
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Season: 4
Episode: 32
00:00 - Picks For Men
01:28 - The Basics
03:32 - Settings
05:20 - The Map Variety Problem
07:24 - Map Breakdown
09:46 - What's Affected By The Changes
11:30 - Scoring
14:12 - The Removal Of Plucking
16:43 - New!™ Pikmin AI
21:18 - The Removal Of Win Conditions
22:06 - Sneak Bomb
23:13 - Items
25:07 - Rock Storm
26:53 - Items Continued
27:58 - Load Times
29:09 - Only Multiplayer In Pikmin 4
32:10 - Bonus Finders Keepers
33:57 - The Value Of Multiplayer
35:46 - Please Just Play Pikmin With Friends
#pikmin4 #dandori #pikmin

[@leftasright]

My opinion is different than yours so this is clearly a skill issue despite you somehow winning matches by 300 points

[@Gamer_0694]

Bro 💀

[@jaydenyoo4309]

Holy shit its tcnick3

[@Gamer_0694]

@@jaydenyoo4309 nuh uh

[@D20thOfHisName]

WAIT GUYS! LOOK!

[@Rice_enjoyer999]

@@Gamer_0694 yuh uh

[@sarutanku]

My biggest disappointment in Dandori is that your Pikmin don't fight eachother at all. You can attack eachother's dog, but when it comes to contesting for items and resources, whoever has more Pikmin comes out as the winner and the losing Pikmin just lay on the ground until their cap whistles them up again. Like really?? Why are we taking away one of the most integral parts of 2 and 3's PvP in that you can make your Pikmin duke it out over resources

[@gay4sswhovian]

Just imagine this against Louie's dandori battle Exactly it would be impossible

[@YoungMrBlue]

The dogs alone kill 50% of the game Not a dog hater but they ruin the game for me

[@Gaspe19]

​@@YoungMrBlueI agree

[@Ilikecatsl0l]

The only reason i play Dandori is when my brother walks by and i say "look at the pikmin PvP"

[@BlueLeef]

Was literally how I got my younger brother to play it 😂. Gotta rope someone into trying it!

[@ink_summit]

real

[@BoulderWraith]

Shoutouts to the VERY small Competative Pikmin Battle Mode Community called Sprout House. They've been hard at work modding Pikmin 2's battle mode to make it the best it can be, while also trying to bring 2P Battle and sometimes Bingo Battle to it's strategic limits. They also stream tournament matches *usually* on weekends around 1-3pm CDT on Twitch! And they have a Discord server to hang out at as well!

[@laggianput]

I love sprout house. i was super active there right around when they opened, and even played quote Balrog on a couple occasions. (And won :3

[@ghefersoncurva]

Got to be one of my favorite genders

[@Themacattack1209]

I feel like Pikmin 4 was primarily used to draw in a ton of new fans to increase the franchise’s popularity, which is why it’s so simplistic compared to the previous games. They probably just wanted people to play quick and simple matches together and didn’t want to add too much complexity to it.

[@YoungMrBlue]

It was cobbled up in 5 seconds to appeal to young kids so they have a reason to keep the franchise and pretty much attack the fanbase by releasing a follow up to a 10 year old game so they will like it no matter what simply due to it’s existence

[@ShuckleShellAnemia]

@@YoungMrBluecitation needed

[@harryinglis2535]

I have a theory that maybe they made pikmin 4 simple to draw in new fans because pikmin 5 will end up being huge. Knowing Nintendo though, means that probably isn't happening

[@user-bb2op9he1x]

splatoon 3 map design found its way to pikmin 4 ☠☠☠

[@raviolinoob4435]

NOOOOOOOO

[@Fenyx_Birb]

At least splatoon 3 maps give you distance from the enemy base.

[@Robbie_Haruna]

@@Fenyx_Birb And they have more than like a couple aesthetics.

[@BoardGamesBricksHobbies]

"Release a half completed game and save the rest for DLC" has become pretty standard for many games, it's a shame Nintendo is hopping on this bandwagon.

[@Robbie_Haruna]

@@BoardGamesBricksHobbies That's... Not at all what's happened here? For either Pikmin 4 or Splatoon. If you wanted to make that accusation it'd be more accurate to point at some of the Mario Sports titles on Switch, (they don't do DLC, but free updates, but the content lacking nature is accurate.)

[@banjory6457]

Thank you for doing this retrospective, it was really interesting and fun to follow it. As a pikmin fan, it was dispointing to see that versus mods weren't getting not even half of the credit the main story has while they are a big source of potential for pikmin gameplay. Anyways, amazing job Silok, keep going like this, it's really nice to watch your fun and high quality videos !

[@Pikachu_Gamer123]

pretty sure leafy showdown is only called that due to in the story being the final fight against leafling olimar(also it's a reasonable point to get the leafling appearance for your character so yeah)

[@OriginalGameteer]

That's correct The 6 PvP maps are just taken directly from the Dandori battles in the story mode So they aren't even unique maps like they were in 2 and 3

[@Pikachu_Gamer123]

@@OriginalGameteer ya don't say. Regardless, i hate it that pikmin 4 has the most missed potentional regarding two player. Even pikmin 2 did it better imo

[@montelblair7273]

that's really weird since there are 3 other fights against leafling olimar but only the last one makes reference to it

[@Pikachu_Gamer123]

@@montelblair7273 who knows why they actually named it that

[@user-ry2sz9tn4w]

@@Pikachu_Gamer123 I personally feel like its most likely called Leafy Showdown because it's the most climactic battle (at the time).

[@X-Cite69]

What I find funny is, during the story mode dandori battles.. if you have a second player throwing rocks, you can go on Olimar’s side of the screen and target him the whole game, not letting him get anything.

[@QuoteIzkewl]

As someone who has not played a SINGLE Pikmin game (though I watched a Pikmin 3 let's play and loved it), you still managed to keep my interest up for all these Pikmin vids purely just by going as in depth as you did and hyping it up as the greatest thing since sliced bread. I am now on my way to the store to buy 24 copies of Pikmin 4.

[@someweirdo2757]

You’re not buying enough copies

[@edwheezer6231]

I've not played much versus, but I LOVE Pikmin 3's cooperative multiplayer. The treasure collecting stages are real fun, and Deluxe adding multiplayer to the main game was incredible; it's SO dang fun to play an entire Pikmin campaign with someone else- talking and strategizing and splitting up the work. Not many people talk about it, but it's legitimately one of my favorite multiplayer experiences. Cut forward a few years, and I was massively disappointed to learn that the only cooperative ""multiplayer"" in 4 was a cursor that could throw rocks. Maybe it's good, but I'm pretty sure it's not anything close to what I wanted. Really sucks that competitive also got the short end of the stick. Thanks to 4's popularity, I now know people who got into the series through 4 and WANT to play versus. And the versus is... alright, I guess. It's a real shame, here's hoping multiplayer Pikmin isn't dead. :(

[@PickleManSupreme]

I agree with you that the captain shouldn't respawn, but I think the dog should respawn after 30 seconds, though if both your captain and dog are down at the same time you lose. Also the dog shouldn't count to pikmin extinction, which should be a win condition, so it's viable to go for it.

[@FireSonic225]

This kinda makes me wish there was actual multiplayer in Pikmin 4, maybe even 4 player co op?

[@T-Dawg75]

UhM, aCtUaLlY, tHeRe isn’t multi player. Pebble pitcher is pathetic. I Agree wholeheartedly. Especially considering that each player has both a Captain and Dog to work with. Easy 2-4 player opportunity.

[@YoungMrBlue]

Nintendo: but there is co-op! The Co-op: *Super Mario Galaxy flashbacks*

[@chibiinu1509]

It’s so sad that Dandori Battles were made like this. The concept worked for the main game but as a side mode it just sucks. ALSO FINALLY THE LAST OF THE THREE MULTIPLAYER MODES IS REVIEWED:3

[@nachoguy707]

I swear, this man is a better critic than actual game critics. Give him an award.

[@MrBran4]

Been playing Bingo Battles basically weekly now for almost a decade, there's no words for how disappointing Dandori Battles have been! It's objectively anti-dandori too - you can't do dandori when everything keeps respawning, it's literally the antithesis of dandori. Ridiculous. Fuming. Day ruined.

[@cabracadabra_4256]

Dangdori

[@King_Luigi]

_"Furious! Outraged! Sick with anger!"_

[@PixelPikmin]

Idk why, but I think dandori battle has way less content than Pikmin 3. I mean bingo battle has infinite options considering the boards are completely random. The maps were also way more interesting and difficult. Here it’s just 6 nearly identical maps with constantly respawning items. There’s only 1 Pikmin type per round, which is so dumb. It doesn’t feel nearly as competitive, just the sneak bomb but that’s it. All in all, I really hope the bingo battle appears in Pikmin 5.

[@volvoman5262]

The reason for the downgrade is because giving an AI to collect specic randomly generated woud be a nightmare And there is the fact that every game has something that's simmilar but diiffrent, like: collectebles, end of day monologe or the style of the area's thenselvs ( regular, re-used, sub-area's and abandom real live place ) Even if Pikmin 5 won't have multiplayer battle in main story, I doubt that Bingo battle woud return

[@Pikmin442]

Honestly the way they should of done the dogs and characters is this. When they die they go back to the base but there health is on a timer. Basically like what happens to Moss in Heros Hideaway but quicker like 30 seconds.

[@sethmeaseles3301]

Unironically more effort and thought was put into the Pikmin Adventure game from Nintendo Land than in the multiplayer for Pikmin 4.

[@antant6217]

nintendo is aggressively bad at giving options

[@YoungMrBlue]

Pikmin 4’s VS mode is the dandori battles from the main game. Scott The Woz: *”So there isn’t a VS mode”*

[@anthonyoliver418]

I really hope we get either dlc or an update jus to expand this mode, because the idea of everything being equally valuable can change how much you want items overall, if there was better settings it could be a pretty decent shake up for the formula

[@photonic083]

when I first played dandori battle(it was on story mode), I didn't realize the items respawned and thought I was just going insane

[@wingbeltcreations5455]

I've yet to play Pikmin's multiplayer, since I'm the only person who plays games in my house, and no one I know wants to play with me, but I've loved this series to see how they all worked, and your story of Dandori Battle with your cousin really spoke to me, because I had a similar experience before. I've absolutely fallen in love with F-Zero, especially GX. But when I went to play it multiplayer with my siblings, I would win by such a large margin because I knew the tracks, the quirks of my preferred machine, and my playstyle. I had everything in my favor because I had been playing the game nonstop for months and loved it to death. For them picking it up for the first time, it was miserable, as they had nothing to bridge that skill gap. No catchup mechanic, no PVP, nothing. It got to a point where I began picking the worst machines in the game, or ones that I hate playing as to give them a chance, and I STILL DOMINATED. It wasn't fun, and it didn't feel good. I wished there was a way to set that they could have boosts from the start and I couldn't, or that they only had to do 2 laps while I did 3. That I had less health, or anything to level the playing field. Give me, the better player, a handicap that with my skill I can navigate around, to allow them to have a fighting chance. To make me worse, giving them the opportunity to learn and get better, and slowly challenge my actual skill level. I often talk about how frustrated I am that multiplayer games don't have singleplayer modes. That maybe you don't always have friends to play with, and you don't always want to just do CPU matches (looking at you Mario Kart). Even a tiny Mission Mode like Mario Kart DS can go SO FAR. But I'm realizing the opposite works too. It's a bummer when a game with infinite multiplayer potential either has nothing, or is so basic that convincing someone to play with you is impossible. I can only imagine how cool it'd be if Pikmin 4 had the Mario Kart 8 treatment where the multiplayer was made not just passable, but GREAT. Because Mario Kart 64 is still my sibling's favorite for Battle mode alone, and no other game comes close, and I feel that if I had friends to play it with, Bingo Battle would be a constant thing in my house, while Dandori Battle would be forgotten instantly.

[@flyforce16]

Your videos are always well-edited, funny, and thoughtful + specific. Keep up the great work!

[@havenfractal]

It's weird that enemies respawn in multiplayer and don't in single player. Makes the main game into a liminal space once you get to the end of it. Otherwise, the only other thing I like about Pikmin 4's multiplayer mode... is the ability to play it single-player. I can't play Bingo unless I have a friend, I can play Dandori myself.

[@keving264]

Love how at 4:03 alph insteady thorw them in the void

[@S.B.Reorch]

Really like the music used in this video!

[@johnclark926]

I haven’t done Dandori Battle much, but the Pikmin being unable to get up after losing tug of war baffles me. To my knowledge there is no other instance of a Pikmin not going idle after having been knocked down, so having this be an exception is not only unnecessary but wildly unintuitive. I’ve also come to agree that the lack of fine control on whistling is a miss, and it’s a problem echoed with how many Pikmin you can throw on an item and the infamous auto-lock. There’s times I feel like Nintendo’s game designers are absolute geniuses who have their heads five feet up their ass, they can become so enveloped by the intricacies of their design that they incorrectly assume it must be incredibly fragile. It’s why the Mario Galaxy games were brilliantly made and then kept iterating on the stupid cursor co-op because they assumed the level design would buckle under two characters, even though it really shouldn’t.

[@Admiral_Axolotl]

8:10 I think it’s called Leafy Showdown because it appears to be the same map as the campaign Dandori battle of the same name, which has you fighting against LEAFling Olimar.

[@hyperboreanverdantsilo7959]

i believe that Leafy Showdown is called that because it's the arena used for the final Olimar battle, so it has a somewhat climactic name to go with it ('leafy' just being a general nod to the Pikmin). it would probably be more obvious if they used the unique battle theme that's like the best song in the game for multiplayer as well but they didn't.

[@nettalie4435]

Even beyond all the other shortcomings of this mode, the lack of settings alone is already a huge disappointment for me. Cramming what should have just been 5 different settings into a single difficulty selection just sucks to be honest, and not being able to change the timer at all is just the icing on the cake. Sucks because I personally was already a bit disappointed with the main game, so the multiplayer mode ending up fairly lackluster stings all the more

[@WarioEnthusiast]

Great video, but it's kinda shocking to me that this is the only video I've ever watched that includes the 2nd version of the staff roll theme from DKC Tropical Freeze, considering that's like one of the best video game songs ever.

[@photonic083]

Overall I liked these analysis videos a lot! They are very well made, good job!

[@cubecat9493]

>pikmin >you dont pick them >theyre not men

[@hyliaphora-cecropia]

As someone who spent hours and hours in P3s Bingo Battle and consider it some of the most fun competitive couch coop up there with Mario Kart…yeah, Dandori Battles didn’t scratch the itch. I liked them fine in the story, but I still go back to P3 deluxe if I want to battle my family. P4 more than makes up for it with how god-tier the rest of the game is though

[@photonic083]

I played bingo battle a lot, too. Not nearly to the same extent as you, though. When playing pikmin 4, the moment I saw the rock item on my roulette for the first time, I wanted to know how nerfed it was. And, yeah, I was blown away by how weak it is. I never realized how broken the rock item is until your analysis of it in this video. Also, yeah, what you said about load times in pikmin 4 is something I completely agree with.

[@LucasDarkGiygas]

thanks for the video

[@isenokami7810]

It’s clear that the reason the Dandori battle maps aren’t as diverse is because they just copy and pasted the maps used as essentially boss fights for each single player area into the multiplayer. Which is hilarious to me: those battles existing in single player gave me the impression multiplayer would be a major focus, but they then took the laziest path possible with it.

[@Robbie_Haruna]

It's kind of the same boat as the Dandori Challenges. Despite being a part of the main game they don't feel nearly as diverse as they should be (especially compared to 3's Mission Mode.)

[@Pikiguy]

You can actually stop pikmin from carrying gold nuggets. Just Oatchi rush them

[@silokhawk]

Big if true

[@gboogie3257]

@@silokhawkit actually is true thanks to rushing you can stop Pikmin from doing anything especially if Oatchi has a stun move

[@kombattortoise103]

My friend and I really enjoyed Pikmin 4's battle mode when I got the game. I found that the best handicap was swapping to purples. All the items, aside from the sniffer and weights, never go above 10 units. The biggest part my friend struggled with was knowing how many pikmin should go on an item to get it moving; while slow, purple pikmin greatly reduce the amount of learning required for new players to compete in my experience.

[@Skelington]

I mean, they didn't even make new stages for the multiplayer. I'm surprised you didn't mention it here, but all the stages are just the dandori battle caves from the main story. That's why the 4th stage is called "leafy showdown". Not because of the stage itself, but because it's the stage used for final showdown with leaf olimar. From the dandori battles built for the story made rather than the versus mode, to the sad excuse of a co-op that is the "pebble pitcher", it's very clear the multiplayer for Pikmin 4 was a complete afterthought. I love Pikmin 4 and I'd say it's my second favorite in the series (behind 2), but I really wish they would have put a little more time into the multiplayer.

[@Wattson-ston]

Dandori issue

[@krubbington]

genuine criticisms of how garbage pikmin 4's side modes are in comparsion to previous titles aren't a dandori issue to me but you do you i guess

[@Wattson-ston]

@@krubbington I mean, I didn't mean it as anything I just wanted to say Dandori issue.

[@CoinBox170]

I'm so glad I'm not the only one who felt this way. Every reviewer I saw was singing this games praises and didn't even mention the multiplayer and how stripped down it was

[@MagicMaster667]

Finally, someone who's said it and _really_ understands! I'm definitely gonna recommend this Pikmin Vs. analysis series to my younger brother. He's only familiar with Pikmin 3 and its co-op but is crazy good at Bingo. He's not had the time yet to play basically any Pikmin 4 or Dandori in 4 against me, but always sounds hyped at trying more than 3 or 4 matches whenever we both are able (due to our busy adult schedules). Ever since Pikmin 3 came out on Wii U, and especially after its Switch port we've played a *_stupid_* amount of Bingo Battle with each other, and it's conflicting to soon potentially witness him realise how meager, downgraded and unstrategic Dandori is compared to Bingo...

[@jwechols86]

Every time my cousin comes over we always played bingo battle. He was the one who got me into bingo battle leading us to play 2’s battle mode. He came over fairly recently and he wanted to play dandori battle with me and we were both incredibly disappointed

[@boredgabe4874]

I think this is a very well made look at the Dandori Battle mode, especially being a person who is fairly familiar with 4 with numerous hours and playtimes in challenges and battles. This mode is a good mix up of the regular formula of 4 and I think is a very fun time when just looking at it on a surface level look. But really looking at it compared to the other modes does make it feel lesser. It is unfortunate seeing that some aspects are absent here from 3 and 2, and as someone who wasn’t able to play them as Im limited on people to play with, it’s a little sad. Mainly since sometimes its hard to really get people to play Pikmin, and I think having CPUS helps sorta lend to being able to actually get some mileage out of multiplayer. Generally I agree with a lot of aspects you brought up as it does feel like a step up and down from many aspects of the previous battle modes. Skill level is a heavy factor in any kind of Pikmin discussion, and sometimes in can somewhat hinder discussion in my opinion, but Im very glad you were able to bring it up as this is an important discussion when actually looking at not only Pikmin multiplayer modes, but just Pikmin in general. Very good and informative video, glad to see some genuine issues and such brought up with this mode as I sometimes do also feel it could’ve been so much more.

[@GamingWarlord64]

I really hope we get more Pikmin content soon I love the game so much i have played through it twice

[@krubbington]

Thank you for dissecting this mode in detail, a lot of schmucks say "dandori issue" to any criticism levied against this mode but in reality we're all suffering under this half-baked game mode and blindly defending it does nobody any favors. I miss plucking Pikmin, Pikmin interactions, and having I dunno... BASIC GAMEPLAY SETTINGS THAT AREN'T BUNDLED. I really want in-depth battle modes for Pikmin like 2 and 3 had and I agree that 4's mode was a major step down. It's so ironic how Pikmin 4 touts Dandori as a major aspect and pushes it everywhere, but many of its new additions are actively anti-dandori. You can't sit here and convince me the throw limit and autolock are better for the game, because they objectively aren't and get in the way of strategizing. Stuff you mentioned like Pikmin laying down is also extremely annoying too. I'm a major Pikmin fan but that doesn't mean I take huge issues with a lot of P4's asinine changes. "You're no longer making long-term strategies, you're just playing on autopilot reacting to things". couldn't have said it better myself. I'll take your advice and try to play Pikmin's other multiplayer modes more, bingo battle especially because it's very well-created. Kudos to all the research you did in this video, especially that timing of how long it takes to react to P3's boulder item. You do your homework, and it shows.

[@Kummahndough]

I can't wait for someone to claim that your opinion sucks or that you don't like Pikmin 4 because of this video. I've been finding these videos extremely informative as someone who's never touched a Pikmin game. I'm not even sure I will, but I'll keep these videos in mind if I do.

[@emilelariviere2712]

Fiddlebert isnt proud of you Edit: nevermind

[@owenanderson8224]

19:38 Ok, I agree with almost every point in the video, but this one I really don’t get. The stall feature is genius, because it prevents accidental whistling. If I wanna whistle some Pikmin that are standing idle, and they’re nearby some Pikmin carrying an object, I don’t need to worry about the Pikmin leaving said object since I need to whistle twice to get them off. It’s a huge time saver, since it was really annoying in the first two games when I’d need to whistle Pikmin and it would cause nearby tasks to stop. The laying down shit is still absurdly dumb, but just stalling after one whistle is a huge win imo.

[@RiDEL_Castro]

Also the whistle stall will only apply to Pikmin that are NEEDED to carry the item. If you whistle Pikmin carrying an item and they are merely extra Pikmin carrying it they will be whistled off immediately and only the Pikmin required to carry will need to be whistled twice

[@alfo2804]

I think his problem is that he doesn't know that you can quickly double-tap the whistle to achieve the same thing as holding down the button. Yeah, they'll still halt for a second, but tapping the whistle results in a tiny range that won't interrupt nearby tasks.

[@nyon7209]

No he's right. New whistle is awful. It's more complex, less intuitive, makes precise work harder, and minor misinputs waste more time. It's only advantage is major misinputs waste less time, but that's mostly because of charge. I'm just thankful flying pikmin are both rare, and not good in 4, because because using it with them is just painful.

[@silokhawk]

Not liking accidental whistling and not liking the stalling are 2 very separate things. I understand the appeal of being able to whistle idling pikmin without whistling a carry, but having everything in the area stall doesn't need to happen for the other feature to exist. If you _need_ all your items to stall whenever you whistle, then you're not playing very fast to begin with.

[@silokhawk]

@@alfo2804I'm not sure if you're joking but there are several moments in this very video where I double whistle lol I'm well aware of the feature

[@DonShnack]

It’s a shame that Dandori battle is so lacking because it’s the first game that incentivizes you to actually try it in the main story. Like I actually thought that was a really smart move that would indicate that they would do more with the vs. I think they did care about it, just a classic case of Nintendo making over corrections and trying to make things too accessible imo. Also great vid btw :) makes me wanna rip a game of bingo battle

[@lasercraft32]

I hate how this is the first game with a customizable character, yet it has the worst multiplayer in the series (except for the first game, but that's only because it had no multiplayer mode).

[@garden6008]

when Pikmin 3 released one of the biggest complaints was how short it was, but most of the time the people that said that only played story mode. in Pikmin 4 they tried to fix this by adding all the content they made into the single player. Missions where pretty much unchanged, but the VS mode was designed from the ground up as part of the story mode game first and foremost. that's why it feels like an after thought. There are only 6 levels, because they only planned 6 battles for the single player, and the other questionable decisions where made so that the little kids that play single player don't get frustrated. I think it was a bad decision overall, and I hope next time VS mode is designed for online multiplayer.

[@personman5156]

I was always someone who thought of the vs modes as just nothing additions I ignored. I'd play Bingo Battle with a friend now and then but even when I play with the one friend I have who's good at pikmin, I wasn't really having much fun. It just felt too chaotic and nothing at all like actual pikmin. I came to accept that Pikmin as a series would just be a single player experience. I had hopes that Dandori Battle would change this, but those were almost immediately snuffed out when I realized it was worse than Pikmin 2's VS mode. I will say though, you make a very compelling case for Bingo Battle, enough to make me want to give it a shot again. Its probably been around 6-7 years since I really played it (when deluxe came out I only tried it with a friend who doesnt know pikmin and it was just no challenge at all) so maybe I let my first impressions get the better of me and I could try with my pikmin friend again, assuming I can get him over to my place with our busy schedules

[@stevesamuals2651]

This game could have made for multiple themes, types, ect for their multiplayer. But instead they choose to make it the main games dandori battles. We could have had so much more variety. What if we had a racing mode where you had to explore a map to collect checkpoints? Or a fire vs ice battle style where each team gets different Pikmin types and they have to collect all the treasures in a stage together?

[@gboogie3257]

Since I have no friends I never experienced the 2 player battle fully in pikmin 2 and 3 but I can see why Dandori looks to be just nothing to lots, not much of different gameplay and nothing of a huge big item usage when lots of them suck trying to be used directly against the opponent Edit: it’s called leafy showdown because you battle Leafomar

[@Mirppu]

I think it would be cool if you could create own maps and unlock more enemies areas and pikmin types from what to build from and you would unlock the things by playing the game and getting more entries in your piklopedia

[@aciddownpour2185]

god theres so many things i wished had happened with dandori battle that just... didnt. me and my friend LOVE multiplayer pikmin so much, one of our instant and biggest complaints were lack of coop in the story, oatchi makes a perfect candidate but nope lol :) we once played 100 games of bingo battle in a row over a weekend and it was one of the most memorable weekends ive ever had we just cant bring ourselves to play dandori battle as much becausw it just... frustrating. its fun to play but all the potential, the groundwork for a good proper mode is RIGHT THERE, just... not used. why. could not agree more on the value of multiplayer

[@Spinner891]

I just don't like 'dandori' in general. Like, maybe I don't want to be efficient? Maybe I like to go slower, and just do one task at a time, because it is more calming? Gaming in general tends to emphasize efficiency as the player becomes more skilled, and aims to do things faster and faster. So why does Pikmin 4 have to make such a huge fuss over it? For how much the game talks about it, you'd think they were going to rename the franchise to "Dandori" or something. I got sick of seeing it all over the place.

[@jackbob83]

Why is it splitscreen in single player mode?

[@happysmilesworldandgames8755]

They could add a dandori arena creator

[@StardustSauce]

Somehow got the sense. I'm not a subscriber but I got the itch to watch the other two videos again today. What do you know, uploaded five days ago...

[@magemage5659]

I feel like this video sums up well why I am a bit disappointed and don't have much fun in the Dandori battles myself even in story mode - they feel more like a little stressful chore than really a fun battle. I love the Dandori Challenges in contrast, they are fun strategic challenges, but yes the Battles are just very lacklustre having nothing special going for it. I loved seeing Bingo in Pikmin 3 (never played it myself cause neither do I have the people to play it with nor do I own the game) with its intricacies represented and all the strategic elements, and I also enjoyed dabbling at least a little bit with Pikmin 2's versus mode when I played it on the Wii, and I wasn't even aware how much went into it, but those two modes just really felt interesting and fun, while yeah Dandori Battles are just a downgrade from everything... they feel fine in the story mode and I can understand not including such a complex system as the Bingo Battles as a vital element of the story BUT that doesn't excuse the missing of an interesting Battle mode in 4... nor does it excuse the highly limited ability of changing a handicap/the difficulty. Tl;dr: good video, agree lots, wish Pikmin 4 had a more thought out versus mode.

[@Targetstrike]

Dandori issue? more like Dandori HAS issues

[@caraprism9074]

23:06 I think this is just Pikmin 2 battle with extra steps

[@Napi0p]

I really miss the old pikmin games with the “crap”graphics(I love it) and the half-stressful half-soothing experience 🥲 I remember being so scared and sad to lose Pikmins when I was little. Now, I’ve played 1&2 so much I find it hard to get this strong and unique feeling of being so small, vulnerable and lost but at the same time proud to get a ship part or a treasure I’ve been struggling to get. The thing is it’s not just me that got older: As time passed, I’ve watched games (not only pikmin) get easier and easier and I know it’s just designed so it’s accessible to more people but it still breaks my heart knowing that I will never experience the difficulty of trying to do something hard and stressful while trying to stay calm in order not to screw up in such a beautiful universe as video games… I just crave more of that past experience…

[@minecrafter3448]

How did you even get that whistling system? The best new addition about this game is that whistling only pauses pikmin actively carrying out a task, but if you don’t hold the whistle they’ll go right back to what they’re doing. What you’re asking for is 3 separate tiers of whistling, which is too many.

[@silokhawk]

In the clip of Pikmin 3 you can very clearly see me not holding the whistle and they're still stalling. The 2 whistles I suggested was one that whistles all pikmin no matter what, and one that only whistles pikmin idling. Stalling doesn't need to exist at all unless you're extremely bad at the game. I don't know how you got to 3.

[@minecrafter3448]

@@silokhawk Maybe I’m misunderstanding you. You’re requesting a second whistle entirely… over a minor inconvenience at worst that I (and probably literally everyone else) never ran into? This is very much a you specific issue if that’s what you’re asking for, and a second whistle would make the already lengthy and wordy tutorial just too much.

[@silokhawk]

@minecrafter3448 If you're literally saying that accidentally stalling nearby tasks is a problem only I run into, when there is _video evidence_ of the other people I'm playing running into the same problem; Then you are literally just choosing to be an ass instead of acknowledging sometimes good games have control issues. The only way I can see someone never having this issue is if they're playing incredibly slow and do 1 or 2 tasks at a time.

[@minecrafter3448]

@@silokhawk Now I know for sure you aren’t making sense, it’s not just me failing to understand. Are you trying the say that normal whistling stops tasks entirely in 4? Because the default settings don’t cause that.

[@minecrafter3448]

@@silokhawk I’ve got a fun and easy solution for you: intermittent whistling. It won’t stop your pikmin working on a task. I really think this is strictly an issue for long time pikmin fans that just can’t adjust, I picked it up in minutes as this was my first* pikmin game, and it works great. I imagine you’ve figured this out already, but here’s the order of importance the game follows: -Idle pikmin need no whistle to come to you -laying down pikmin and overabundant numbers of pikmin on something will come to you with any amount of whistle -pikmin actively performing a necessary task will not come to you without an extended whistle, and they hesitate to inform you they’re in the range If you’re talking about the hesitation, that’s beyond a subjective little nitpick. It’s meant to be punishment for losing track of any pikmin long enough for them to be knocked back. In other words, punishment for skill issue, universal to both players and a minor inconvenience at worst.

[@squiddler7731]

I wonder how many of these issues could be traced back to them wanting this to be a mode in the main game, and having an AI opponent for players to fight. I can easily imagine a mode like bingo battle being way too complicated for a computer opponent, and changes like pikmin not being able to fight eachother/captains being done as a way to either stop the player from cheesing an AI, or make the AI less frustrating to fight if it were to take advantage of that.

[@pikmin_79]

I was really excited for the dandori battle since bingo battle was so good and I never had anyone to play it with once I figured out there were cpus in 4, until I played it in the story mode. It was boring and easy and felt more like I was playing a challenge mode level :(

[@Manny4Life948]

I personally haven’t played this mode with anybody yet, but in my personal experience, the absolute thrill of going around at top speed, collecting everything as fast as you can, fighting enemies, and the satisfying feeling of just destroying moss is just a good feeling. I was slightly wish there was more strategic stuff ( most fun I have is putting types where they’re not supposed to go and finding clever solutions get past the obstacles) It is mostly just dopamine, and I like that.

[@JellyMyst]

Your problem with Dandori Battle is one I'd apply to the series in general. You summed it up well when you said Nintendo seems to remove any inconvenience. From pikmin tripping, to them getting distracted by anything interactive, to leaves being vastly slower than flowers, to limited time management, to multiple onions, the series seems to lose as many features as it gains. It's a large part of why 1 is still my favorite game of the bunch: You actually feel like you're stranded in an unfriendly environment, to the point even your allies need contant wrangling. It adds an requirement for efficiency and punishment for mistakes, which the series has yet to completely capture a second time. The dandori challenges in 4 get close, but they do so by essentially making any mistake unrecoverable. Because it's so easy to manage pikmin now, that's basically the only recourse they had.

[@benferrisinverts4198]

A bingo battle stream would be great. Also theres bingo battle mods but not much footage idk if their any good!

[@Ly..]

Bingo battle was peak

[@Blue_Pikmin77082]

Hey can we retakw the photo in the thumbnail? I was sick during it and im better now so we can we can take a better photo now.

[@marcusculbert1181]

"I don't think Dandori battles are bad" I completely get that, I too have had to censor how bad I thought something truly was in order to avoid angering fans.

[@kirbykraftgames]

I wonder if the weird “Fog” item in Bingo Battle was meant to be a beta version of the Bewilder Bomb (since it seems to act like the Toady Bloister’s ink from Pikmin 3)

[@Pikzelow]

I’m so glad that someone agrees with me about Pikmin 3 Deluxe and Pikmin 4’s whistle stalling as I think it’s terrible as well and agree with what you said about it. I want my Pikmin to come off the item immediately as I whistle them. If we could fully customise our controls and how certain aspects of each ability worked like for example choosing to turn on or off the whistle stalling and turning on or off the Auto lock-on feature would vastly improve the game’s and I don’t understand why you cannot toggle them at all. I would be happy to unlock these options after beating the game once but Nintendo refuses to make the game more difficult and better for us more skilled Pikmin players since yes it’s good they’re focussing on making new players enjoy and get into pikmin but simple options for pros to choose is a no brainier. Why Nintendo? It is so simple to do.

[@Glitchmouse2]

This is why i want the bingo battle as a gamemode and a submerged castle level.

[@ccmonty994]

I’ve found that quickly double tapping the whistle button is an effective solution to get pikmin off something. Still stalls them but it’s better then calling to many off

[@ACircleGuy2763]

You can actuallly stop your opponent’s pikmin from carrying gold if you make oatchi rush into them

[@404_nowheresnotfound3]

We need a stand along game for Pikmin bingo battle it's that good. Or atleast many a indie game inspired Bingo Battle!

[@Greenish9204]

My biggest gripe is how poorly some Pikmin are balanced, Purple Pikmin are insanely busted, since almost every treasure is 10 weight and under, and because if how easily they tear enemies to shreads. And how basically 1 or 2 White Pikmin can just instantly annihilate any enemy. While Ice Pikmin are basically worthless because of how they freeze and break enemies upon death, making it insanely hard to get points from enemy corpses. And how Blue Pikmin are just really terrible because of how like 1 out of the 6 maps actually use Water as a hazard. They really only tested out the modes for the main campaign. Making me wonder why they bothered adding the option to change Pikmin types for maps they clearly don’t even work on.

[@Lucky-le-Olive]

also about pikmin 3 rocks, if your in a good senario where you managed to walk out the way, just stay away from that rock falling area, the rocks do not follow.

[@vinegar...]

6:24 ok i hate to be that guy but where's this song from? stickerbrush on the sax goes crazy

[@pikmaniac2643]

I’d say that this reminds me of my opinions on MK Wii’s battle mode (and 7’s and 8’s too). I loved when Balloon Battle had more of a “survival mode” feel to it, but now it’s just an annoying score attack.

[@hi-i-am-atan]

hasn't the knockdown mechanic existed since pikmin 1 y'know, when your pikmin got knocked away by a non-lethal attack, they'd fall to the ground and be completely useless, but you could whistle at 'em to get them off their ass, but _also_ if you just left them there for a while, they'd pick themselves up on their own and go back to what they were doing how did they manage to screw it up _that_ bad. like i can get wanting item steals to have a significant impact on the enemy pikmin unless their captain is there to tend to 'em, but like ... they could've just made the pikmin get dazed for like 5 or 10 or whatever seconds before they got up on their own, because that would slow them down _tremendously_ without forcing you to manually pick back up each and every one

[@furiouscorgi6614]

About Pikmin carrying small objects (and Dog vs Dog): Oatchi/Moss's charge will stun Pikmin it hits, as well as the other dog, and if the other player is on said dog the'll be flung off as well. A charge with a squad of probably 30 Reds/Rocks will immediately eliminate them- probably the reason for fast respawns

[@_Tekz]

8:11 it’s called leafy showdown because of its story mode placement

[@rubenrodriguezalvarez12]

It reminds me at the Battle mode in the original Mario kart 8

[@lilrabbiofficialvevo5256]

Can you put a tracklist in your videos you always use really good music

[@Side_N0te]

I'm pretty sure that you can also lose a playable character in Leafling Olimar, since if you have any save file where he is saved he will no longer be a Leafling in Dandori Battle.

[@CassiusStelar]

Nothing beats Bingo Battle

[@photonic083]

Have you ever considered making an analysis on pikmin 4's story?

[@theguywhocandothepikminvoice]

This truly was a dandori issue

[@windlybandibunbrother4670]

Agreed lil bro, they should’ve used Dandori challenges like in Pikmin 2

[@windlybandibunbrother4670]

If we were looking at a PvP gamemode I think a larger arena would also make it better

[@willshea3078]

I need og pikmin 2 battles

[@nyon7209]

Your closing remarks, encouraging us to find someone at roughly our skill level, to play the other battle modes with, is why it's so rarely talked about, and such an afterthought to the average Pikmin fan. If I knew other Pikmin fans irl, I would absolutely play the battle modes with them. I do hope Pikmin 5 doesn't try to be Pikmin 4 2.

[@bestgames64]

NUH UH