Why Did Goku Stop Using Kaioken?

Why Did Goku Stop Using Kaioken in Dragon Ball Z, Dragon Ball GT and Dragon Ball Super? ‪@LSMMIKE‬ discusses that in this in-depth DBZ video featuring the Dragon Ball anime and manga!
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[@jason15212]

Giving Tien and Yamcha Kaioken is a perfect way to give them a fighting change in layer arcs. They should know the technique .

[@IIIISai]

True but it ruins the overall scaling, humans being relative to god hood saiyans is a recipe for disaster

[@MaxiemumKarnage]

^^^^^^ I still, to this day, am hoping that we one day get to witness Tien yell "KAIO-KEN... TIMES 100"

[@barrysmith4610]

Also Krillin. Sigh missed opportunity

[@jason15212]

@@barrysmith4610 Krillin never trained with King Kai so idk. It could be one of those things where old King Kai can teach it.

[@jason15212]

@@IIIISai The Humans are still insanely power as is. It wouldn’t matter because no matter what you give them they aren’t the main characters so therefore they won’t win against anybody major anyway.

[@imjustadog1897]

It seems like the kaioken was tailor made for someone that’s immortal, with advanced regeneration and infinite ki. Anyone else has to use it briefly, at a low intensity, or at a high intensity if it will completely close the gap. The kaioken was basically training wheels until Goku reached super saiyan. Beings that can’t transform shouldn’t try to exceed their limits dramatically.

[@savaget2058]

It's would be cool if 17 could learn the Kaioken

[@IIIISai]

@@savaget2058 OP

[@aliastheabnormal]

@@savaget2058 17 and 18 don't have ki. They have some weird perpetual energy source that mimics ki somehow.

[@itzYonko]

Even if you're immortal, the Kaio ken techniques has severe drawbacks and consequences. Have you not watched Z?

[@imjustadog1897]

@@itzYonko If you’re immortal, you can’t die. If you can’t die, you can recover over time. If you have regeneration, the recovery process can take less time. If you have infinite ki, you can use the technique as long as your body can withstand the intensity. It seems like only one being is capable of doing that, and it’s Majin Buu. The only drawback is that he’d probably sleep longer than usual.

[@SamsarasArt]

I think because super saiyan is basically an improved version of kaioken. Goku using 20x kaioken nearly destroyed himself and left him incredibly weakened. Super saiyan multiplies your power by 50 without it damaging the user. So not only is it stronger it doesn't have the drawbacks of kaioken and thus explains why Goku discarded that technique in favor of super saiyan.

[@LagoonKnight]

AND THEN in super!!! He uses it with SSJ Blue 😂

[@psychotropicfan]

Only in the anime. And even in the anime they explains blue is different and that's the only reason it works now. Even in z filler he has the more durable dead body. So even without ignoring the anime it's not entirely inconsistent

[@ReeceHoward06]

@@psychotropicfan Exactly. I love how above comment implies it's use in Super as a negative. The shit was explained and makes sense being that it is a godly technique used in conjunction with a godly form. That should negate most of the drawbacks logically.

[@greedysourceofgod4819]

@@psychotropicfan didn't goku use the kaioken in the manga as well (in the tournament of power)

[@matteocicaloni]

It doesnt make sense, since he could use kaioken while in super saiyan

[@RockerxxRicardo]

The more important question is why didn't the characters learn Vegeta's technique

[@IIIISai]

💀

[@TheLonelySoulja]

No why doesn’t Goku créate his own techniques?

[@sirlottawin]

Buu did

[@supagreatman2826]

​@@TheLonelySouljassj3....

[@TheLonelySoulja]

@@supagreatman2826 true true.. wait isn’t that just a transformation and not a technique.

[@blaketindle4703]

“Remember the bug planet? Huh Vegeta? Huh Vegeta?”

[@TheBlackScatPack]

“Arghhhhhhhh”

[@HebiSaru21]

I always figured Kaioken just increased his overall stats but only while having it active. The longer he stayed in the form, the faster he burned through his stamina Basically the same logic/principle of SSB (Manga) uses too much energy, while God maintains better Ki Control.

[@kelvinw18]

Tien was my favorite candidate for that technique. Martial Arts is his life, and I feel like he could’ve pushed it to a Super Saiyan multiplier had he learned while he was with King Kai.

[@savaget2058]

I feel like this is a pretty easy answer. After perfecting Super Saiyan and being able to maintain it with ease, the combined better multiplier for strength and decreased strain on his body there wasn't any reason to use it again. That's why it was brilliant how it was used in Super as Goku needed someway to increase his speed despite what Blue was giving him.

[@IIIISai]

goku mastering ssj is exactly why not testing out kaioken didn't make sense, because it was the perfect recipe for greatness, if kaioken works on base, it should work on mastered ssj grade 4

[@savaget2058]

@@IIIISai I think understanding that there were more levels to Super Saiyan is exactly why it makes sense. The strain on his body is incredibly evident with Kaioken. With Super Saiyan he knew there were levels that could be managed and surpassed just like Gohan showed them all. Kaioken is a trump card, a desperation technique not a flat out power-up.

[@146zigzag3]

Because Super Saiyan was less taxing, more substantiable, and more than double the multiplier. It was only when he figured out how to stack it on top of ssb that it became useful again.

[@HayatoByakurai]

Something I don't see be talked about is how Goku's physiology affects his usage of Kaioken. The technique's inventor states that he couldn't master it, despite the fact Goku's performance with it may lead one to believe he should be able to (since the maximum multiplier increased at best linearly with the Power Level). Then he tells his disciple that the latter will die if he misuses the technique at just double his power, yet he is still in one piece (though shredded on the inside) after using double *that* amount. Later on, the Saiyan utilizes x10 with relative ease and manages to put out x20 without going out of commission. However, his usage on top of Super Saiyan transformations (not counting the anime's Blue Kaioken) isn't ever hinted to go beyond just double his ordinary strength. The reason I'm not counting the Super anime is that it seems to be based on callbacks to the technique's original iteration (and maybe following Toriyama's notes, given the one tenth line in the manga) rather than how it works. As evidence, take the fact it took two core sagas (plus several "filler" ones) for the maximum multiplier to double, yet it was multiplied by five in just one saga originally, and with a much smaller power progression if you take the powerscaling seriously. What I'm getting at is that maybe he could push the technique that far because he had so much room to grow in the form of transformations. His body wouldn't easily withstand the overexertion, but it could make it flow naturally, as if he were forcefully tapping into the Super Saiyan's attributes without being physically and/or biologically prepared to do so. Thinking about it like that, maybe the reason why Piccolo and the Earthlings never utilized it was because they couldn't hold a candle to Goku's prowess (and the resulting power creep in the plot), meaning the community overrates the difference it would make in the story.

[@XZAVIER-DAA-GOD]

Really because Super Saiyan was the more useful and because DBZ stop being about techniques and more about transformations and power

[@IIIISai]

you're right, blame cell arc

[@XZAVIER-DAA-GOD]

@@IIIISai Cell Saga* and no it was the Buu saga

[@OurKindofEntertainment]

I wouldn't be surprised if using the Kaio-Ken x20 in the worn out shape he was in at the time led to Goku's power/stamina decreasing rapidly. So, his power would be 60 million the moment he powered up; it probably dropped quickly that's why Goku tried to finish Frieza ASAP! He used a couple melee assaults before quickly charging and launching a Kamehameha. He knew he had to get the job done in that moment because his body couldn't handle a 20x increase for too long.

[@jordannichols8338]

Another great video! Wish the rest of the OG Dragon Ball content makers would return. Like Blacken Fist 😢

[@LSMMIKE]

He and I did a video recently about Why The Androids Didn't Obey Doctor Gero. You can find it here: kzbin.info/www/bejne/nJmwm5yjm8aoaqM

[@mattys6106]

I think piccolo was just talking about raising your power level. They don’t walk around and max power.. that’s because they haven’t amplified their ki. That’s completely different to the kaio-ken. And I think they have always done that

[@powerlevelguy8054]

Well, that's getting a little funny. Scouters would read their full power, they need to actively suppress their full power. So they are giving off their full power to a scouter, but not a ki senser.

[@mattys6106]

@@powerlevelguy8054 they’re always actively suppressing their power levels. Always. That’s why when trunks was ready by a freeza soldier, his power level read at 5. The normal behaviour of the z fighters is to suppress their power levels until they need to amplify it. There are times they go out of their way to suppress them so drastically that ki sensers and scouters can’t recognise them

[@maeakin94]

I never even thought about it being a different technique I just thought toriyama had piccolo describing kaioken but forgot the red aura that comes with it

[@quotivation47]

Ahhhhh! That is a good argument for piccolo.

[@joeysullivanTM]

This was fun watching this Live! 😄

[@TimoneWeiner]

I think always had ki control, but I do agree they may have found a loophole that uses the Kaio-Ken technique but in very small bursts

[@Rojiace]

Kaiyo Ken would probably be a great ability for the human characters to learn. Would be great to give those fighters a chance to get back in on the action, instead of being the group that describes everything to the viewers. I would love to see Krillain get back into the fight being able to power up. I guess it will be an ability that Goku will keep to himself.

[@desmondclark3193]

Because Toriyama forgot.

[@Thromaz]

I think narratively Mastered SSJ is "Gokuu's technique" It fits. When you link it with the progression of Gokuu's gi, you see how he wore all hos Master's clothes until wearing his own symbol on namek when he attained ssj and then wearing the saiyajin armor when he mastered ssj to go on to having no symbol on his gi.

[@XZAVIER-DAA-GOD]

Mike did this live

[@joeysullivanTM]

I know

[@aldoaviles8121]

I was also thinking why didn't cell use kaioken against both kakarot and gohan hope to see a video about why cell never used kaioken and spirit bomb

[@IIIISai]

the author forgot kaioken existed

[@barrysmith4610]

Maybe some techniques just come more naturally to him than others.

[@morlasa]

I bet an additional reason they avoid kaioken would be: if you lose control at higher levels than saiyan saga, you could destroy the environment or people around you, not to mention your body

[@robinthrush9672]

The biggest mistake in DBZ was killing off Nappa rather than making him a Z Warrior. And you had a good point early on. Does Goku even have a technique that he didn't learn from someone else? I'm not counting transformations like SS3 or the Ultra Instincts (if UI even counts since Whis was training him).

[@tylerespinoza1993]

Maybe the burst was for ki instead of activating your entire bodies aspects of fighting like senses muscles and all that stuff.

[@BmanTheChamp]

Probably in the case of Goku, as people have said, Super Saiyan provides a greater multiplier of your base power with less strain on your body over a longer period. Why he didn't try and use it when he was outmatched as a Super Saiyan, even for a brief period, I don't know. As for everyone else who could learn it, save Cell (still don't know why he didn't try it), the reason why is likely because no matter how much they could have pushed it, they knew they couldn't ever match up with Goku or the main villain. They were dead and training with King Kai during Namek, except for Piccolo but I guess he felt he didn't want or need it, he and Goku were technically still enemies at that point so maybe he didn't want to share a technique with someone he despised. That, and we know he severely underestimated Frieza's power. The Androids had infinite energy so there's no way they had a chance since Kaio-ken drains a lot of energy, so unless the boost they got was so massive it could one-shot the Androids, it would be useless. As for Buu, well everyone except the Saiyans knew they had zero chance against him, and it even took Goku everything he had at SSJ3, and no one was even remotely close to that level of power. So, in most cases it would either be useless or pointless.

[@blaketindle4703]

I’m looking forward to the video about whether the Super Saiyan 50X multiplier remains throughout the series. I wonder if Goku and Vegeta in their base forms during the Buu saga were stronger than the androids and Imperfect Cell from the Cell saga? And during the Cell Games were they stronger in base than Mecha Frieza?

[@KaimIICOD]

10:30 Please, make that video. Because SSJ is clearly a x10 increase after Frieza saga.

[@benk6192]

Wow mind blown, awesome video. The conclusion makes so much sense: 1. Goku already used 10 times Kaio-ken against Frieza without any indication in the Manga. 2. Toriyama explained in an interview that the auras are invisible and he draws them for the readers. 3. The perfected "Kaio-ken" is a very good natural progression for this technique. 4. This gives meaning to Android attack time skip as Goku, Gohan & Piccolo actually had a goal for their training - they worked on a technique, and not just mindlessly trained to increase their power level. 5. The "Goku is a jerk for never teaching Kaio-ken" argument is now done, because at least Piccolo & Gohan can increase their power in bursts, (Kaio-ken like technique) Now this raises 2 big questions: 1. Can the Saiyans use it while going SSJ+ (Or are they already using it?) 2. Do Vegeta, Trunks or Goten know how to do it? If Vegeta doesn't know this technique maybe this can explain why Goku, Gohan and Piccolo became stronger then Vegeta after the time chamber.

[@arrownoir]

By the way: The reason we never saw future Gohan achieve SSJ is because he was dragon*balls* deep in Bulma when it happened.

[@dreamcream3738]

Paikuhan didn't get obliterated by a warp Kamehameha was also due to the fact that he's already dead. Dead fighters already have more resilient bodies than their living counterparts

[@DrBacalex]

You gain a new appreciation for the content after seeing it live 🙌🏽 go further beyond!

[@gergelybalogh3005]

Multiple times of kaioken above his ssj transformation would overwhelm his body and could cripple his body.

[@powerlevelguy8054]

Goku stopped using Kaioken because it became obsolete. Kaioken topped out as a 20x boost and Super Saiyan is a 50x boost. Kaioken is also very dangerous and just overall not worth it. He's only able to manage one or two attacks with it, whereas Super Saiyan is a power he can maintain for the duration of a fight.

[@danielsantiagourtado3430]

It was because the SSJ forms provided a much more powerful power up, not to mention that the other world while he was dead was the only placw goku could combine the 2 without dying. Until SSJ Blue came along and with its precice ki control and Godly power he mamaged to add kaioken to it. Plus an awesome double aura effect in the anime🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥

[@IIIISai]

no, ssj is a form kaioken is a technique, so why would he just move on from kaioken as if it was a weak form like ape, the kaioken adds a buff to the current power so logically goku shoulda experimented with kaioken ssj grade 4, it was because plot he didn't or Toriyama forgot

[@aliastheabnormal]

Normal Super Saiyan and Kaio-ken just don't mix. It's the same reason why Goku can't use the spirit bomb in Super Saiyan. Both techniques require a calm mindset that could only be achieved with God ki.

[@herculesburgess6773]

​@@aliastheabnormal Thank you

[@carstan62]

There's another possibility. It's possible that we're supposed to assume they're using the Kaioken the whole time and Toriyama just didn't feel like drawing it anymore. I'm not well versed in the manga, but I recall in the anime, when Goku was fighting Frieza, Tien thought Goku had the fight in the bag because he couldn't tell that Goku had been using the Kaioken the whole time. It could be that as Goku (or anyone else who knew the technique) got better at it, that the visible effects of it were reduced to being shorter than the viewers are able to see. This makes much more sense for what Piccolo said to Gero in my opinion and also lines up with what we know about Toriyama's artistic tendencies (creating super saiyan to avoid having to color Goku's hair, and the confusion about whether Gohan was SS2 in his first fight against Buu).

[@danielsantiagourtado3430]

Love your videos Mike! You always make My day with them!😊😊😊❤❤

[@ReeceHoward06]

While characters may have learned the general principle of ki amplification by the time Piccolo fights Gero, it's also pretty clear that it's nowhere near the extent of what Kaioken could grant. No way is Piccolo amplifying his stats to 10-20x. So basically, hypothetically, Kaioken isn't moot per Say...just that it became unnecessary for Goku due to his Super Saiyan forms, and that the other characters didn't bother because they learned how to amplify their power by low numbers without the drawbacks. Come Super, Goku uses it again, but it works because it's a godly technique in the 1st place, so why not use it with god ki? By the time the ToP rolls around, it's evident that he could handle it way better than when he 1st used it in the U6 tournament.

[@jruler93]

It's because it's dangerous to push it too far, and then Super Saiyan came along with a greater power boost and no danger to the user.

[@davidcampos2615]

Besides the stamina strain which would become irrelevant with Super Saiyan Grade 4...

[@jruler93]

@@davidcampos2615 Yeah, but stamina usage is something a fighter should always take into consideration anyway.

[@davidcampos2615]

@@jruler93 Super Saiyan had a greater stamina strain early in Android saga than Full Power Base Form did. As the saga progressed, they were able to maintain Super Saiyan with virtually no extra drain.

[@isaacboyer2694]

Oh thank god someone is finally talking about super saiyan and whether it always was a x50. To me it felt like alot of it had to have been absorbed into base. Too many inconsistencies otherwise

[@Celerott]

What inconsistencies?

[@finaloblivion799]

It's 50x on Namek, in the Cell saga it's between 100-500x depending on the grade

[@Celerott]

@@finaloblivion799 Eh, you can easily say it was due to the Saiyajins Base has increased so much.

[@GokuTheSuperSaiyan1]

I dont have the evidence on hand but im pretty sure its 50x. More than one databook source uses the 50x number, I think?

[@GokuTheSuperSaiyan1]

If u really think about it, the fact that these saiyan transformations give such big multipliers means that the earthlings stand no chance ever in the future.... after the freiza saga they were irrelevant. They can only stay relevant if they get transformations themselves. But if everyone had a transformation, it would look ridiculous.

[@THEGRUMPTRUCK]

Ultimately, while Kaioken was my favorite transformation, Super Saiyan just rendered it obsolete at that point. It's speculated Kaioken could increase its multiplier possibly infinitely, but the higher the increase the greater the drawback. It might be that Kaioken could surpass most forms if it were on a character with a high regenerative capability, someone lile Majin Buu or Kid Buu with Kaioken would have been ansolutely monstrous.

[@aldoaviles8121]

I thought maybe the creator forgot about kaioken kaio who

[@IIIISai]

he did

[@daniescott3000]

I wonder what would happen if Goku did use Kaio-ken while in his Super Saiyan form.

[@e8root]

We all know King Kaio didn't teach anyone except Goku anything because they didn't get his jokes and that was his another joke

[@blaketindle4703]

I wish we could have seen Cell use Kaioken!

[@censoredterminalautism4073]

I considered this possibility back in the day, that the characters actually have been using it to some degree the entire time and it just became a normal thing. Oh, and in the Super manga, during the Tournament of Power, he does something described as being "like the Kaiouken".

[@ToyotaCorolla-en2mv]

Imagine Tien having a scene where he combines Kaioken and the Ki ko ho, if he did that in his scene against semi perfect cell it would've been more believeable (it's still an amazing scene, just a teeny weeny bit crazy that he was able to do anything to someone that strong. Tien has always had a relevant amount of strength due to how he keeps up with training but like if even Piccolo wasn't able to scratch the previous form of cell with his strongest attacks, Tien realistically shouldn't have been able to hold back 2nf form cell. If he had Kaioken it would've made both his power and his exhaustion make perfect sense, pun intended)

[@theking8347]

Kaioken was powercrept by Super Saiyan. The last time Goku used it pre-Super was against Frieza before he unlocked Super Saiyan. After that Kaioken was useless because Super Saiyan gives a larger boost without destroying your body. Then for whatever reason in Super, Goku can combine Kaioken x20 with Super Saiyan Blue without suffering any drawbacks.

[@criixt]

Kaioken is like downing several redbulls while using his natural saiyan biology to multiply is power whether it be regular ki or god ki, its like drinking green tea.

[@user-mb4pd4ou5i]

Great video love it 🥰

[@Alienldr]

I disagree with the interpretation of Piccolo raising his power in bursts. I never saw it as a Kaioken-like power up. I understood it as they suppress their energy to conserve it, and can raise it to their natural base limit from there. So Piccolo wasn't explaining how he had an ssj level of ki absorbed and he can go much higher than that as he attacks. He was explaining how he had a power level of 300 absorbed, or whatever he was suppressed to at rest, and he can still unleash ssj levels of power in his attacks. The Z fighters I thought explained this ever since the saiyan saga, whenever they talked about suppressing their power. It wasn't something they learned after learning and mimicking Goku's Kaioken.

[@TCGAnimeGuru]

What do u think would happen if he used it in ultra instinct, it might be useful in the Omen state like in the TOP or in the granola arc

[@KaiKrimson56]

15:59 Isn't this what Goku and Vegeta were learning in Superhero?

[@brandongary8234]

What if Goku reached King Kai planet in 1 week instead of just the 88 days

[@austingomez9630]

You could have said what if that big guy in the chair just check something on the list and Goku was teleported there on the first day😂 those six extra days might help

[@Purpleplains7000]

The Movies were Goku use Kaioken are The World's Strongest, The Tree of Might, Lord Slug, Cooler's Revenge and The Return of Cooler

[@Your_Average_Jay]

Because he got forms that increased his power even more, and didnt tear up his body just for using them.

[@antifableach]

I already knew the answer to this question before clicking on the video, but I will watch it to the conclusion because Mike makes me laugh sometimes.

[@KaiserMattTygore927]

I never even realized that piccolo quote could be used to imply that kaioken was actually taught... in a way to the rest of the cast.

[@KaiKrimson56]

Makes Superhero look like even more of a Cell Saga rehash since Vegeta acts like that concept is a new thing Jiren invented when he's training with Goku in the movie.

[@Azure4Shore]

Always enjoy your content Mike!! Speaking of the Kaioken, in Dragon Ball Z Supersonic Warriors for the Game Boy Advance Krillin can actually utilize the Kaioken technique as a temporary transformation in battle!

[@NicksFitnessYT]

"Kaio-what?"

[@GuiltlessGear]

if piccolo can use what is basically the kaio-ken, then why not just give him the red aura so people wont be askin questions?

[@Redman8086]

Piccolo didn't learn it because he was only at Kaio's planet for like a week lol. The rest probably learned it and are using it anytime they fight, just not announcing it, like how Goku was using it against Frieza without us knowing. That was the last time the Kaioken was even referenced in the DBZ manga I believe. I think we as the readers were meant to assume from then on that no one would need to shout KAIIIIOOOOKENNN! to get the powerup or be engulfed in red aura. I can't imagine how Tien was able to hold off Cell for any length of time without secretly using a 20x Kaioken.

[@RejonMunchausen]

Before watching the video my guess would be that its a technique, not a transformation...you don't just activate it and go about your business, you have to actively keep part of your mind focused on accelerating your soul...mentally draining you, taking focus from the fight and thats before you even get to the physical damage its going to do if you use it outside of very quick bursts on the smallest multipliers...a good trump card, but not something to rely on when SS provides a boost without drawbacks

[@zuloph]

Probably because they forgot about it until they remembered it then came up with the excuse that it was to hard to use with super saiyan

[@jadenhall7938]

Btw, if Vegeta got defeated by final form Frieza with Frieza using 1% of his power, Frieza's overall power was much higher than 120 mil. Remember, Frieza got worn down by that spirit bomb so he couldn't access the full capabilities of him max. It just doesn't add up when you calculate what his 1% is

[@youabeach9701]

The highest Kaioken multiplier Goku use was Kaioken x100 against Lord Slug but obviously it was just a movie. Kaioken x100 is just as strong as SSJ2.

[@IIIISai]

As strong but looks cooler

[@aceclover758]

No it’s not as strong as a ssj2

[@IIIISai]

@@aceclover758 it is, ssj2 is 100x boost, kaioken x100 is the same boost

[@youabeach9701]

@@aceclover758 you did your research? 😆

[@gavininman6578]

Why didn't cell just use the Kaioken in the beam struggle with gohan???🤔🤔🤔

[@Vaelithe]

I've always been under the impression that it became natural to him after it was explained he was using it vs Frieza but we couldn't see it. Enter super..

[@Thromaz]

"Just kinda hope and pray to king kai".... Oh... That would be a neat explanation if the reason Kaio couldn't master his own technique was because it relies on the user being able to receive his blessing and he kinda telepathically augments the user at a distance

[@markmagician2471]

Goku does use Kioken now its called "Super Saiyan God"

[@lsixty30]

Because the writer(s) got bored with it and moved on to a new thing.

[@TonyRead31]

Legend

[@dylanfry7978]

In other words I always thought of it like yes they can all for the most part Control their ki to the point of being able to output higher power in short bursts. But the Kaio Ken is just even more then that. Like Goku doing it on his own naturally but then having the Kaio Ken on top of it. Whereas everyone else can just do it naturally as well, but dont have the Kaio Ken on top of it. This how I always kind of understood it.

[@officialchanneloftheflanne5831]

I believe tien could master it as he is known to master any technique.

[@magne7771]

I have a better question. Why didn't he go with RED Kaioken instead of Blue

[@AlmightyCeejay]

Toriyama forgot about it

[@cslack813]

LSM I’ve suggested this before but where does “saiya-jin” come from and why the vegetable theme?

[@jrocken20]

Your telling me king Kai never actually mastered the kaioken and made Goku learn it

[@gogettothelegendaryfusion2204]

Seeing as how goku mastered super sayian and was able to live with it for a week, I find it hard to believe that stacking kaioken on top of it would have been too stressful. If he used it against cell (after finding out that he had to destroy all of his cells), then he probably could have ended cell himself. By the time of the buu saga, he should be able to stack a kaioken on top of super sayian high enough to surpass the multiplier for ss3, which is 8x super sayian.

[@danielhenry4365]

Remember when SSG Goku was able to self-heal physical injuries in BoG? How cool it would have been if he was still able to do that, while combining a very high Kaioken technique (like x400+). His body would be healing from damage caused by Kaioken, enabling a hypothetical SSB 3 (if he were to use KK x400).

[@darthbuckethead2471]

It's what gave him the heart problems in the Android Saga.

[@renzzzquicho7678]

Please make a video about the multipliers of Super Saiyan forms 🙏

[@jeremyhannah4730]

I kind of wonder if Goku's SSJ transformation on Namek was somewhat diminished because of how beaten up he was from using the Kaio Ken.

[@jasonlauritsen5587]

The only time after gaining the ability to control his transformation into SS, that it made any sense to use was in the Grand Kai Tournament, as Goku was dead. By using it with a transformation is ridiculous as he would most likely die from a 1x Kaioken letalone a 20x as thats just way too large of increases for his body to handle. Using it with blue is the worst thing ever. It looks cool, but it's just too much. The whole pont is that it can only be used for short bursts and even then it's going to eff you up from the strain

[@lesterwilliamsjr649]

You know what annoys me in the Cell Saga Goku and Gohan can stay in SSJ for days at a time and after that saga they never do it again. I understand having them in SSJ all the time would be borning but it seems like such a waste of an idea and the writers act like it never happened. I love the idea of a character living there life in a transformed state.

[@IIIISai]

I agree, in the buu arc they should have had ssj2 in base as an improvement

[@lesterwilliamsjr649]

@@IIIISai I just had an idea. What if Toriyama made it that after Goku and Gohan finished training in the ROSAT they gained the power boost and the aura of SSJ while in there base form and they could transform into SSJ as a limit remover to access the grade forms.

[@LSMMIKE]

I have a video about this topic coming out later this year.

[@IIIISai]

@@lesterwilliamsjr649 very interesting

[@lesterwilliamsjr649]

@@LSMMIKE Love your work. You know what video I like to see, ranking Goku's hairstyles across all of the franchise. Personally I like ultra instinct master's hair the most.

[@TheLonelySoulja]

Can you do a video on how strong Pikon is?

[@sirlottawin]

Do a video on masenko

[@brandonlaferney937]

Did he stop using it, as far as the anime goes he uses it as recently as tournament of power arc which is the most recent arc. With that being said the manga continues on with Moro, granola, and now super hero arcs which I don't recall if he uses kioken then or not but now he can use UI at will.

[@KaiKrimson56]

Kaioken Blue was an anime only power-up so it never happened in the manga.

[@JackNapierKnows]

So what Jiren does according to Vegeta in DBSSH? Got it.

[@rickowen6010]

Hey Mike

[@AntiSerpent]

HAI MIKE! ☺

[@JayFreely]

Cause it screws him up really badly

[@Geone1073]

Goku ain't no B**ch!

[@robertrainford6754]

If you really think about piccolo should of been able use the kaio ken the most, and wish they did. Piccolo regeneration ability should of made it were he could make the multiplayer higher than goku because of his regeneration abilities. He would still loose stamina, but I can see piccolo using a super stayan level multiplier.

[@kingmasterlord]

did he? it's damage to the user makes it an emergency technique, it's not that often he gets pushed that far and last time he did he used it.

[@donovanbradford8231]

With Goku I kinda figured he could become a Super Sayian which is an overall better transformation. As far as the other go I think possibly either they learned it on King Kai's planet but couldn't use it effectively after a certain point. Piccolo abd Tien are the two best examples of that as we see both on Namek and Cell those two able to sone type of damage to characters much more powerful than them. Abd by the time if the Androids they had learned to perfect it the way Goku could on Namek against Freiza.

[@Screwycummings]

Perhaps Tenshinhan was using the Kaioken too against Semi-perfect Cell. This would explain why the Kikoho was strong enough to knock Cell back.

[@MrKevin486]

Because Super Saiyan required less coloring and effort 😂

[@101mrcrazyman]

what..? they are about the same on the level of creativity and color

[@mixhaelhardin2762]

I always thought the king Kia fist double your base it when you used it so king Kia fist would double your base when used so king Kai fist times two would quadruple it ‘‘em I wrong

[@Thromaz]

I've said it before but I like Dragon ball. I HATE duPer. It's not "nostalgia" it's quality Thanks mike for making REAL Dragon ball content and not resorting to the latest click bait super nonsense for the views.