Why did Sauron take the Nazgûl's Rings?

[@ΧρήστοςΠαπαδημητρίου-μ6π]

Assuming Sauron had OCD, it would be oddly satisfying to wear all nine of them at once, considering he was missing the finger cut by Isildur.

[@MikaelKKarlsson]

Nice catch!

[@dlxmarks]

But then he'd be driven to distraction with how to evenly wear the 3 dwarf rings.

[@DraconimLt]

@@dlxmarks one every 3 fingers, it's easy maths now he has nine of them not ten.

[@vidarfe]

I'm not so sure that would be satisfying to him at all. It would be a constant reminder of the one finger and the one ring that he lacked.

[@prufenful]

He reformed his body. He wouldn't be able to reform that finger?

[@patrickswayze3086]

I had always read ‘he gathered the nine to himself’ etc as the nazgul through the rings

[@superslayerguy]

He took the rings because he’s the lord of them 🤓

[@andershansen2861]

And then lording them over them 😃

[@DarthGandalfYT]

Can't argue that.

[@DCJMS]

and I recall Gandalf telling Frodo that if he had became a wraith, Sauron would have tortured Frodo by taking the One away, I imagine the nine were also hurt by Sauron keeping their rings

[@nekomimi5471]

When Tolkien said Sauron "gathered," "held," or "kept" the Nine, is it possible Tolkien meant that metaphorically? As in, he controlled them without physically possessing them?

[@dlevi67]

That was always my interpretation too, but there are clues that - at least at times - the nine were not being worn by the Nazgul.

[@jamestalbot6916]

I believe this is correct.

[@SurnaturalM]

The nazgul didn't have physical bodies, how can they wear a ring?

[@jamestalbot6916]

@@SurnaturalM In that case, how do they take the one ring back to Mordor. And how do they carry physical weapons, like the Morgul blade which Aragorn picks up. And if they don't have physical bodies why do they need horses, and how can they ride them, and a multitude of things.

[@Ice-Cold-Fury]

"Rogue Wraith King" that's basically the plot of Shadow of Modor and Shadow Of War

[@capadociaash8003]

And it caused Sauron a whole lot of trouble

[@paladinbob1236]

maybe it was metaphorical...Sauron ownes the nine...means he controls/has the nine [the rings and the people?]

[@leandromafe]

Thats always been my interpretation

[@istari0]

This was fascinating! It might even explain why Gandalf said at that one point that the Nazgûl still had their Rings; he hadn't thought of the risk Sauron saw in someone else getting a hold of such a Ring until later.

[@ryancarter1080]

Did removing the rings weaken the Nazgul? For example in the Wars of Arnor its suggested the Witch King was powerful enough to summon/control blizzards hundreds of miles from him yet while still a sorcerer the witch king in the books while still capable of magic (breaking the gates of minas tirith) has no feats equal to such magic.

[@beaumagoffin7397]

I think it had more to do with time, The Witch King had hundreds of years to slowly change the weather, where the assualt on Gondor was more rushed also the climate in the north was colder so might have been easier to work with than the warmer southern climte

[@oguzhanenescetin5702]

Their missing rings weakened them yes but there is no hint that Witch King had his ring in his campaign against the Arnor. Witch King still proved that he can manipulate the weather without his ring tho as we see flash of lightnigns spring from Minas Morgul to the clouds above before the Siege of Gondor. You might argue that this feat was done by the sorcerers of Mordor but I think its likely that Witch King was responsible for it.

[@knownothing3364]

in the siege of minas tirith sauron powered up the witch king

[@bayarsejar5831]

He also had the ice crown tower there to focus his magic into

[@ryancarter1080]

@@bayarsejar5831 That is completely made up by non-canon sources, the video games and fans, other than the name and where it was we know nothing about Carn Dum, we don't even know it has towers though considering how most middle-earth people use towers it is likely there was but there is no Tolkien source describing what Carn Dum looks like in any way, no names to describe individual parts of it either, so ice crown tower is made up, doesn't exist in the books.

[@mochan8447]

Finally a truly insightful video

[@GravesRWFiA]

in saying they are held by sauron it might well be that they mean symbolically-that by controlling them, suaron has called them to him. he might not actually have the rings in his house but rather he had them under his dominion

[@ericstoverink6579]

I thought it was because the Nazgûl no longer had corporeal forms, and thus, no solid fingers to hold a ring.

[@MikaelKKarlsson]

Sauron was a dick. - Anonymous Orc captain, who knows nothing of any incident at the tower of Cirith Ungol.

[@scottbest2001]

The nine he wore on his remaining fingers, the 2 dwarf rings he wore in his ears. The final ring he retrieved, the ring of the Longbeards (Durin’s ring) he used as a Prince Albert.

[@maskedmarvyl4774]

I assumed that he had gathered as many rings of power to himself as possible, in order to increase his personal power in the absence of the one ring, and to aid him in regaining his physical form.

[@pirate4460]

Sarong played shadow of war and realized what would happen if someone like celimbrimbor got the a ring of power

[@mcintma2]

Excellent reasoning! Also, Gorthaur the Cruel probably enjoyed forcing the Nazgul to surrender their rings to him - this must have been a kind of torture (an ongoing one) for the Ringwraiths.

[@oguzhanenescetin5702]

Exactly. Gollums will was pretty damaged by wielding his ring for couple hundred years. Ringwraiths were wielding it for millennia at this point. Their lust for their ring would have been very great. I imagine a tragic scene where Nazgûl dont want to squander their rings to him but are forced to. Ringwraiths were probably Sauron’s most hideous act. Thid kind of mental torture was also probably the way how he threatened them from time to time.

[@anthonymartell9880]

Dunno if anyone has dealt with this topic yet but I have an idea for a vid. Why did Eru directly intervene against Sauron but never directly against Morgoth ?

[@fipse]

For one, the Valar were still around to deal with him. Second, he absolutely did intervene. A lot of the heroes of the First Age had some strange luck sometimes...

[@Qbliviens]

He didn't intervene against Sauron, he intervened against men. Morgoth came to Valinor alone (with Ungolianth) while the Numernoreans wanted to get there with a giant army

[@anthonymartell9880]

@@Qbliviens pretty sure Tolkien said Eru tripped Gollum @ Mount Doom. Forgot the Letter number though.

[@colinbielat8558]

Pretty sure Eru got tired of all the shit his naughty children were doing and just said screw it sauron, your rings hoing in fire.

[@danielpaulmann4799]

The Men of Numenor were going to kill the ainur. The ainur were not allowed to kill children of Illuvatar. Not even to defend their lifes. So Eru had to intervene himself to defend them. There was never another situation like this but it is the kind of situation where he would intervene directly trough force.

[@jamestalbot6916]

I highly doubt that Tolkien ever contradicted himself in lotr, he put in too much effort for that even with just minor spelling errors to be sure everything was correct. When He says Sauron holds the nine rings it does not mean he physically holds them, just like he does not physically hold osgiliath, or minas morgul. Putting the ring into the hands of any of saurons servants would likely have been seen as putting it into the hands of the enemy even though it still must travel to reach sauron himself. Let us also note that Sauron is "The Lord of the Rings", not "The Lord of the Wraiths". I think it likely that the ring wraiths could not be controlled by Sauron without their rings, and just like sauron upon losing his ring they would be vastly weakened. There is no reason to take the nine rings from the nazgul as well unless you intend to give them to others, assuming that the nazgul can persist without rings of power to keep them alive. If he did not give them away to his new potential servants, they would simply be wasted sitting in some vault at barad dur. As for the dwarven rings there was plenty of reason to gather those again, because the dwarves could not be controlled, the effect of the rings on them was just to make them greedy. They could not be manipulated by sauron so there was no point in allowing them to have the rings. Though it does mention when dain negotiates with black riders that they offered to return rings of power if they swore to help the dark lord. That makes sense because it secures an alliance, but otherwise Sauron cannot afford to let them have new weapons.

[@WhoIsCalli]

Great stuff, thanks

[@Cat_Woods]

Tolkien contradicts himself, because at one point early in the story, he says that Sauron assumed that the one ring had been destroyed, as it should have been. Later he says Sauron had never even conceived the idea that anyone could or would destroy it. Always bothered me as a kid, reading the books. I chose the interpretation that it never occurred to him, but in that case, you'd think he would have spent more time looking for it before Saruman did.

[@Crafty_Spirit]

I kind of understood that the Ring was destroyed by accident or simultaneously to Sauron's death, like that he thought the Ring may break apart with his passing. But it is a strange thing that Sauron would think for a time he recovered his strength without the Ring.

[@NIP345]

I remember reading that Sauron invested the rings with his power. Without the one, maybe he would want the nine and the seven to get back some of his lost power.

[@videocrowsnest5251]

Probably might have also came in handy as minor power supplements to his own while the one ring was lost. Sauron did need to do a lot of regaining of power, so while they might have not been large additions, they would still have served as minor supplements of power (still being rings of power) to wield.

[@isomeme]

I was glad to hear you referring to what Sauron added to the lesser rings as a "backdoor". I am a software engineer, and I can't think of a better word for it. I'm fact, I recently riffed on this idea in a post to my (allegedly) humorous "Great Moments in Software Engineering" series on Mastodon. KZbin won't let me include its URL here (sigh), but at least for me, this Google search query brings it up as the only match. Be sure to include the double-quotes as shown. "gmise" celebrimbor I've actually done several Tolkien-inspired posts in the GMISE series, including the preceding one. This is what happens when my geekdoms converge. 🙂

[@voxorox]

I wonder if the transition to wraith has something to do with the Illuvatar's Gift to Men. We're told that men's souls are different from beings such as elves, and if their lives were extended indefinitely their bodies and souls would rebel against each other and violently try to separate. Maybe the rings extend their lives long enough for that to start to happen, and the connection to Sauron right at that critical point would be an opening for him to corrupt them completely.

[@benkosakladen5349]

Yes. Interesting. I hadn’t thought of that as the reason why he gathered the rings. To stop the 9 being used against.

[@gamesmore6583]

If Sauron has them he can give one away if the Nazgul that had it got himself killed. However it would take time to change the new holder to a wraith. The mouth of Sauron would be a likely choice.

[@MasterTangerines]

I have a question that is probably answered somewhere. Why exactly did the elves feel the need to take off their rings, and why did they become aware of Sauron's deceit? If their rings were not made under his influence, why are they still connected to the others? Also, why did the elves feel safe to use them after Sauron's defeat? They knew the one ring wasn't destroyed, and it seems like a great risk considering they didn't know much about the nature of the rings.

[@nekomimi5471]

I think he at least was aware of the Three, who had them, what were they being used for, etc., simply because they are magic rings, even though Sauron did not directly help make them.

[@inczekrisztian2648]

When Sauron first put on the One and spoke the words of the script (which itself is a statement of function/purpose), the elves wearing their Rings heard his voice, and immediately took their Rings off. During this Sauron also became aware of the Three which he didn't know even existed until this moment. Why are the Three still influenced by the One? Because they were still made with the knowledge that Sauron provided, even if he wasn't present at their making. The purpose of the One is to rule them ALL. Every single Ring that was made with the knowledge he gave the elves. As to why the bearers of the Three used their Rings while the One was lost? It is precisely because it was lost. The facts that Sauron wasn't present at their making and didn't even know about them until it was too late made it so that the Three could only be dominated by him from afar if he had the One Ring. But while he had the One everything done by the Three would be subject to his will. I hope my explanation is helpful

[@ATVatcher]

I had trouble with that, too. As well as why the other rings lost their power after the ruling ring was destroyed. I've settled on the thought that the whole primal concept of rings of power was part of Sauron. That root was manifestested in the One Ring itself. With its destruction, the others could not exist. There could never again be rings of power (new or old, including Saruman's knock-off). Their whole possibility has vanished from Arda.

[@MasterTangerines]

@@inczekrisztian2648 Yeah this makes sense and them being made by Sauron's methods was partially what I assumed. I just wasn't sure how clear of an explanation there was. Thanks for the reply.

[@qalnor]

oh I always read 'gathered the nine to himself' to mean that the nazgul had returned to Sauron to protect him or raise armies in mordor or do other nazgul stuff close to Sauron. I still think you could read that line either way, but in the context of the rest of what you said here you make a pretty compelling case that they were not wearing the rings

[@janrudnicki6111]

Very good

[@billychops1280]

Hey Darth what do u think happened to Maglor, he was banned from returning to the west so did he just Vanish over time like the rest of the elves or do u think something more interesting may have happened?

[@Crafty_Spirit]

There is a text by Tolkien ("concerning the hoard") in which he basically says that Maglor committed suicide by drowning himself in the sea with the Silmaril

[@SovitheDisastrous-k3r]

I thought he was sealed behind the Door of Night in the Far East, shackled and in the timeless void with his crown beaten down into a collar for him. Sealed away until the apocalypse of Middle Earth

[@billychops1280]

@@Crafty_Spirit ah, I thought he threw it into the sea and wondered the shores ever after but that makes some type of sense

[@billychops1280]

@@SovitheDisastrous-k3r bro where’d you get that idea from

[@SovitheDisastrous-k3r]

@@billychops1280 it is written.

[@chrishill4991]

I would have thought if Sauron hadn't taken the rings from the 9 they would have been lost in the Bruinen. It's said they returned to Mordor empty and shapless so probably couldn't carry rings.

[@TheLeftie600]

If the Nazgûl still had their rings and one of them obtained the One Ring, would that Nazgûl be able to break free of Sauron’s control? It could be that Sauron recognised that threat and took away their rings so this eventuality could not occur.

[@nagashtheundyingking4404]

always wondered why Gandalf says the ring only follows the will of Sauron while it seems anyone can dominate and use if strong willed enough or maybe that was just a movie thing.

[@DarthGandalfYT]

It follows the will of Sauron in the sense that it's impossible to use it for good. Anyone who isn't strong enough to master it will become enslaved to it, anyone who is strong enough to master it will just replace Sauron.

[@Mystic_Librarian]

Always wondered what would happen if a dwarf found and used on one of the nine, or if a man found and used one of the seven?

[@SirIdot]

I see the 16 rings as pretty much identical in function, it was just some practical need that led to Sauron assigning 7 to the dwarfs and 9 to the men. So the outcome would be the same if a man got a dwarf ring. Sauron tried to get them back from the dwarfs when they didn't work as he intended, but only succeeded in getting three of them, the other four were destroyed. Maybe he intended to make more nazgul with them in the future.

[@tiltskillet7085]

It's interesting to wonder why Sauron didn't redistribute the Nine while he held the One. I think it's logical to assume there must be a reason, probably "magical", he couldn't create 9 or 27 more Ringwraiths, or it wasn't practical to do so. Otherwise, he'd be right on that.

[@Mozihawk]

Being Wraiths they cannot "hold" the physical rings. Sauron just needs to hold them to maintain control.

[@Qbliviens]

Considering Sauron put a lot of his power into the one ring, wouldn't that also mean he put some of it to a lesser degree into the 9 and 7? Meaning while the one was gone he could leech power from these rings as a substitute? Maybe he just wanted them back simply because they were powerful rings?

[@istari0]

The flow of power was a one way thing, going from the one expending the power to the object receiving it. Similarly, Morgoth could not take back the power he expended in corrupting Arda.

[@Crafty_Spirit]

It makes sense though I would like to believe that Sauron was too arrogant to wield a Ring of Power besides the One, but maybe he enjoyed some passive power boost effects just for having them close around (there is some fuzzy implication that the RIngs also work when one just carries them)

[@Qbliviens]

@@istari0 If that's the case why is it implied so much that the one would give him (or anyone powerfulenough to wield it) greater power?

[@istari0]

@@Qbliviens Anyone else capable of wielding it would in effect be using some of Sauron's innate power in addition to their own. As far as Sauron himself goes, I believe it reduced Sauron's other abilities to enhance the ones Sauron felt were most useful to him. This would be similar to how Morgoth's power was diminished when he put much of his innate power into corrupting Arda.

[@DraconimLt]

So if the Nagul still had the 9, could Frodo have controlled them then with the 1 ring? Or could say Aragorn if he had control of the 1?

[@istari0]

If they could master the One Ring then yes. Based on what Tolkien wrote, I'm not sure either of them could.

[@Crafty_Spirit]

I paraphrase from a letter in which it is said that the Nazgul could no longer directly assail Frodo but would still serve Sauron. They would try to trick Frodo into coming near Sauron, but could not do much more. I don^t have a text for the Aragorn scenario though

[@DraconimLt]

@@Crafty_Spirit yeah, but according to the video, IF Sauron had let the Nazgul keep the 9 rings then the 1 ring could be used to control them. The video said that Gandalf or Galadriel could do so with it, but it only covered beings of that kind of power. I was asking if the same would apply to someone else in THAT scenario.

[@DraconimLt]

@@istari0 makes sense. Also somehow fitting that an Istari should be the one to answer...😀

[@Jeremiah-x7q]

Maybe they would continue fading into nothingness where they would be useless to sauron so taking the rings put their wraithification on pause

[@General12th]

Hi Darth! Good thinking!

[@814TrumpArmy]

SO if the witch kind had his ring on he still could have died?

[@SirBolsón]

Honestly, it always confused me that it's called "The Lord of the Rings" but the other rings aren't shown as prominently besides that of Sauron's. I would have definitely wanted to see the other rings in the books AND the trilogy as it would've been more fitting to the namesake, along with the effects they could bring. Heck, they (Tolkien and P. Jackson) could've shown us more of the Elvish and Dwarvish rings if they didn't want to show us the 9!

[@thomasalvarez6456]

Because the shadow of Sauron as the Lord of the rings is over all rings. The dwarves ones are of minimal consequence in Sauron's mind as he can't control the wielders, just bring them misfortune. The three and nine were his main power plays, with the three being the main objective. This quote helps "Hurray!" cried Pippin, springing up. "Here is our noble cousin! Make way for Frodo, Lord of the Ring!" "Hush!" said Gandalf from the shadows at the back of the porch. "Evil things do not come into this valley; but all the same we should not name them. The Lord of the Ring is not Frodo, but the master of the Dark Tower of Mordor, whose power is again stretching out over the world!" The One rings is the master ring, I know everyone knows that but that's why even the three are footnotes compared to the one, only the one truly matters.

[@SirBolsón]

​@@thomasalvarez6456Ofc and it makes sense why Sauron is so powerful, as his ring is a tier above all the rest, as Sauron is the one evil who's above all the other beings of Middle-Earth!

[@dlevi67]

@@thomasalvarez6456 Bear in mind that the seven were not designed for the Dwarves (with the possible exception of one - but Tolkien seems to have changed his mind on that one several times over). They were made for Elves, just like the nine. Which kind of begs the question: why didn't Sauron make more Nazgul, 12 at a time? All this said, I agree that the shadow of Sauron is over all the rings, including the three.

[@davidseligman6445]

I do believe you come into contact with every other major ring still in existence in the story. Gandalf Galadriel and Elrond's for the elven rings. The 9 Nazguls. And I believe the mouth of Sauron offered the 4 remaining Dwarven rings to leaders of Dwarf kingdoms if they sell out the shire and join in league with Mordor , some deal like that.

[@dlevi67]

@@davidseligman6445 "An emissary of Sauron" - which could have been the Mouth, but it could also have been a Nazgul or another servant (and the remaining rings were 3). But do you trust Sauron to deliver on such promises? Or indeed _any_ promises!

[@philipcraig6230]

Do you have any theories about what might have happened if the Nazgul had seized the ring from Frodo before he reached Rivendell? Would, say, the Witch King have been tempted to wear the ring & claim it for himself or would the enslavement to Sauron be too strong?

[@istari0]

His enslavement to Sauron's will was too strong. It's why Sauron trusted only the Nazgûl to get the One Ring back; there was no chance they would betray him.

[@gnarlynarly1350]

should do a video of the wildmen/middlemen of middle-earth like the dunlendings, woodsmen, beornings, rhudaur and people of enedwaith and why they stay so primitive or dont expand can also talk of western gondor as it was populated with middlemen with som numenorean blood in them

[@korgclips868]

Shadow of war the game can back this up, even though it isn’t canon Isuldur’s ring of power in Talion’s possession proved to be a large nuisance for Sauron for decades until Talion himself succamb to corruption; even though it isnt canon i still prefer many of their portrayals in contrast to the rings of power show. In the end though all they’ll be is a fan fiction continuation over Tolkien’s Universe, both have their merits & flaws but they too can be appreciated separately or in conjunction with the main story; even if it’ll only be a headcanon it all comes down to the reader’s experience & enjoyment in the end.

[@martinbennett9908]

Because the rings had done their job. They were for control.

[@acrustykrab]

im going to guess bc the rings and sauron had already enslaved them and weren't needed for those 9 wraiths anymore

[@Kellethorn]

Nah, Sauron was just a little gunshy about the hole wraiths with rings thing after Talion and Celebrimbor pushed his shit in for all those years.

[@Evoker23-lx8mb]

If he did take the rings, why wouldn’t he give them out again to make more Nazgûl?

[@Kakarot64.]

Maybe he needed the one ring to create Nazgul?

[@Shadoanbj]

Well done!

[@joshthomasmoorenew]

I do always wonder how exactly Sauron got these rings to people, i mean i doubt he was walking around like an evil jehovah's witnesses going "Hello would you like to talk about my lord a saviour Morgoth, who insists i give out free rings here have one."

[@novalux4452]

Because the nine humans were probably from places already influenced by Evil. They were easterling,Haradrim or black Numenoreans from the colonized coastal cities such as Umbar.

[@Crafty_Spirit]

He offered power for allegiance and still had his fair form. Plenty of candidates willing to sell their soul, even plenty of people who would murder for the mere opportunity

[@istari0]

Sauron was a master of deception and likely used much the same techniques as he used against Celebrimbor when getting the Elven smiths of Eregion to make the Rings in the first place.

[@ADhammer]

Doesn’t really seem like Sauron had influence over the three, considering Gandalf wore one throughout the series…

[@DarthGandalfYT]

The Three are a bit of a special case though considering Sauron never helped forged them. But yes, they were safe to wear after he lost the One.

[@PrometheanRising]

I am pretty sure that Sauron only got 15 rings.

[@7thsluglord363]

Nah, he didnt take their rings at all. He gathered the nine, nazgul, to himself. And he controlled them through the rings they kept. Without the rings, the wraiths would have faded completely away, like when Bilbo no longer had the One, he very quickly began to age and soon died.

[@josephhoskins7354]

1st. Love your videos. Thank you!

[@3xpoc3nt3r]

Aren't the elvish rings NOT subservient to the one ring?

[@jakethomason5495]

'acccording to some sources' theres like 5 books.

[@thomasalvarez6456]

They had done their job, the rings were not redundant to the Nazgul. He probably could of redistributed the rings but I doubt anyone had no knowledge of what magic rings does to you by the time of the late Third age.

[@talesoftheeldar8688]

Do we know when did Sauron retake the two dwarven Rings ?

[@phoule76]

He said it! He said it!

[@LockeCPM4]

Awesome video once again. I would add to all this that it is possible Sauron was using the power of the 9 rings, and the remaining 3 of the Dwarven rings to try and enhance his own power, since he was greatly diminished without the One Ring

[@RobbyBurney]

I so appreciate your channel bud. When it becomes extra enormous please maintain the quality level of *dense information* and don't become a typical soyjack KZbinr pleb. You're great as you are and I'm stoked to see more

[@doublezero2001]

He didn’t take the Nazgûl rings away. It’s how he commanded them. If they didn’t have the rings then they wouldn’t have been destroyed to when the one ring was destroyed

[@Rich4098]

I imagine they just fell off.

[@darhammora7867]

The reason Sauron was able to control men but not dwarves is because the 9 were made of Sauron blood much like the one while the 7 were made from Mythril added with Sauron magic

[@lucasmuniz5263]

No, the rings were not made with Sauron’s blood, nor were they made with mithril (except for Nenya)

[@darhammora7867]

@@lucasmuniz5263 story takes place over thousands of years, it changes from generation to generation

[@cesaraugusto7676]

This is Rings of Power

[@boilinghippo4468]

​@@darhammora7867wrong

[@darhammora7867]

@@boilinghippo4468 says who?!!

[@daniilmakhinov5247]

🫂

[@aaronrogers965]

The one ring if you'll remember from Canon has one master and even if another took it up it would be only a matter of time before they would be overthrown