Why did the Ottoman Caliphate fall 99 years ago? with Dr Yakoob Ahmed

99 years ago, the Ottoman Caliphate, the world's last widely recognised caliphate, was abolished on 3 March 1924 (27 Rajab 1342 AH) by decree of the Grand National Assembly of Turkey. The process was one of Atatürk's reforms following the replacement of the Ottoman Empire with the Republic of Turkey. Abdulmejid II was deposed as the last Ottoman caliph, as was Mustafa Sabri as the last Ottoman Shaykh al-Islām.
We explore the circumstances that led to this momentous event. Why did the Ottoman Caliphate fall? What should this date mean to us and what impact did this decision have on Muslims at the time and has on us today?
Dr Yakoob Ahmed holds a PhD from SOAS, University of London. An Ottoman historian, he is currently teaching Islamic history at Istanbul University and was a visiting fellow at the Modern Turkish Studies Centre at Istanbul Şehir University. His research focuses are Muslim intellectual thought in the nineteenth and twentieth centuries, Islamic constitutionalism, identity, nationalism and collective memory construction.
As always, you can comment your thoughts below.
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The Thinking Muslim Podcast Episode 85
00:00 - 2:32 Introduction
2:32- 6:24 Visit to the US
6:24 - 9:09 British Muslims' questions about the Ottomans
9:09 - 13:00 What does the fall of the Ottoman Caliphate symbolise?
13:00 - 17:10 How much is the Ottoman Caliphate a model for a future Caliphate, why are Ottomans not referred to enough?
17:10 - 24:00 Why was the last Caliph deposed? What is the significance of separating the Caliphate from the Sultanate?
24:00 -29:10 Who were the Nationalists who deposed the last sultan and what were their motivations? Were the revolutionaries in 1908 anti-Islamic?
29:10 - 29:45 Emergence of Nationalism as a response to the collapse of the Caliphate
29:45- 35:26 Why were people against Sultan Abdul Hamid even though he stabilized the period of the annexation of Muslim lands?
35:26- 37:50 Role of the West in inciting nationalism within the Muslim community of European territories under the Ottomans
37:50 - 38:32 Role of Arabism in paving paths for Arab Nationalism
38:32 - 40:52 Impact of First World War on Muslims
40:52 - 45:12 How far does the Ottoman internal feeling of inferiority after the First World War, in the midst of the rise of technological power of the Europeans, contribute to their decline?
45:12 - 49:23 Understanding the debate between Islam and the subscription of the Caliphate to Modernity
49:23 - 53:47 What led the Ottomans to support the Germans in the First World War?
53:47 - 1:01:24 What is the reason for the Empire to remove the Caliphate completely even when it did not have any political or legislative power?
1:01:24 -1:08:19 About the attempts in different parts of the world to re-establish the Caliphate
1:08:19- 1:12:46 What happened to Mustafa Sabri after he was removed?
1:12:46-1:13:59 The complexities of understanding historical events
1:13:59- 1:16:55 Chances for a new Caliphate
1:16:55 - 1:17:15 Additional resources

[@BloggingTheology]

Absolutely fascinating! Thank you.

[@TheThinkingMuslim]

Jazakallah khair brother Paul.

[@CineRanter]

It would be great if you could get Dr Yakoob on the show Paul

[@sulaimaanamin2983]

Masha'Allah, this is a topic that deserves to be talked about and vital for us to know about. Loving the roster of guests, alhamdulillah.

[@1goal1]

1:08:10 the teacher says about Muslims "we are not as closely connected as we think we are (he means in every aspect of life, ideas,culture,opinions, situations, etc) but we are emotionally connected and spiritually connected in a way that other communities are not". 💯 We are connected. Gaz a has proved it. Alhamdulillah. Jazakum Allah khairan for your work. Both of you. I have watched a few of your new videos, great host, great guests. Proud to call you my brothers. Keep the videos coming inshaaAllah!

[@k50159]

May Allaah bless you both abundantly and preserve you. Ameen

[@peacenow6618]

May Allah Accept your works, and make it a means of acceptance and Guidance for the Ummah!

[@MrTruthAndFacts]

From Libya, this is excellent and balanced reflection on what happened 99 years ago. Jazakum Allah kher brothers

[@koksalceylan9032]

The Ottoman Khalifa dint Fall it was destroyed by the British,France!.

[@Al-bq5yr]

To be fair - The Brits, the French and the Soviets very ably helped by King Saud, Sheif Hussain's and the Arabs that followed these traitors of the Ummah. It was the Ottomon Caliphate that defended Palestine and Aqsa Mosque 🕌. The Brits n the French n succeeded by the backstab.

[@v_ilaris]

The Caliph was abolished by Ataturk after but now Erdagen is fighting back against Ataturks laws to maintain the islamic law.

[@baloocallout678]

I always look foward for 19th centuries amd 20th centuries Ottoman from Dr Yakoob Ahmed!

[@peacenow6618]

جزاک اللہ خیرا

[@razmiihsan8897]

JazakaAllahu khairan

[@AbuMuminlife]

May Allah SWT reward you ɓrothers

[@_f_]

superb ending :)

[@kimxt7562]

Does Dr. Yakood Ahmed still hold online classes? Where are the details of his US tour? JazakAllahu Khayr

[@aligokce7836]

The caliphate was abolished under British pressure. England approved the Lausanne treaty, which is the foundation of the turkish republic, only after the abolishment of the caliphate. AND... The caliphate was not terminated in the absolute sense, it was shifted to the Turkish Grand National Assembly. Under the right conditions, it can be spun off as a separate entity again.

[@TheFeanor]

what bullshit is this? Caliphe was already a puppet of Britain. Nowadays, Caliphate, Papa or someone else have no importance like in medieval times The world have changed.. Nice Dream (!)

[@jediTempleGuard]

Definitely not true. Brits probably welcomed the fact that there will be no caliph who would be a headache in their indian politics but that's it. There isn't one single item in the treaty that forces Turkey to terminate caliphate. As Dr. Yakoob Ahmed stated well in his speech, caliphate system had a strong tradition to impact political system and it is well documented how last caliph tried some political intervention which caused conflict of power. To avoid such conflict and change the centuries old system to a "republic" the caliphate system was chosen to be terminated.

[@aligokce7836]

@@jediTempleGuard Lausanne signed on July 24, 1923. Ratified by Turkey Aug 23, 1923. Caliphate abolished on March 3, 1924. Lausanne ratified by all other countries August 6, 1924. This did not need to be in Lausanne treaty explicitly. Ataturk was squarely in Britain's pocket. Brits still keep their communication with him secret up to this day.

[@antonisvamvouras5052]

shirk nullifies faith. The nationalists cannot even inherit their muslim fahters.

[@Al-bq5yr]

@@jediTempleGuard in todays world how often do we ostensibly see the machinations of the USA/ NATO in world affairs ? In the turn of the century the puppeteers were the Pax Britainica in league with the Soviets n the French. The Caliphate had to go without which the Zio-Christian project couldn't take centre stage - so as to bring into fruition Zion. All attempts by the Ummah lead as it were by the Ulamah of the subcontinent and Indonesia to mount a resistance to the abolition of the Caliphate failed as a result of machinations of the Britain & Co. With hindsight the Caliphate had to go for 2 reasons - 1) creation of Zion/ Israel 2) 😊 The creation of the rationale for the return of the Caliphate in its pristine purity. Ultimately behind the scenes at the heart of the betrayal and destruction of the Caliphate were the Arabs lead by King Saud n Sherif Hussain) . The Caliphate can only rise again with the complete destruction of those Arabs n cronies that helped bring about the destruction of the Caliphate in the first place. Ultimately even in its weakened state the 'Ottomon' Caliphate couldn't have been put down without the Saud/ sherif Hussain treachery and backstab. Sadly for the phoenix to rise there has to be Ashes of these traitors. Ultimately God Knows Best!!

[@_f_]

Allah humma bariq!

[@eauclaire07]

Brilliant! My understanding of the end of ottomans was limited to the analysis by Eugene Rogan, David Fromkin and other contemporary western historians of their likes (and I respect them very much). However this discussion was truly fascinating. The idea that the Uthmani Caliphate had the ability to get itself out the mess was truly a unique point, and the role of WWI really hits the cord. Additionally, young Turk movement not a reactionary or unIslamic movement was also interesting. Q: How do you distinguish between the young Turk movement from the movement of Mustafa Kamal Pasha and the reforms that he implemented after dissolving the Caliphate?

[@_f_]

we still yearn for the honor of the caliphate, not even fully knowing what it realy was^^

[@enjoyit851]

He is a Excellent History Teacher .Sir make video on Ataturk.

[@MehmetTuxuk]

Why though ?

[@aisaaysen5306]

Why didn't you ask a Turkish historian? It is Türkiye not 🦃

[@emrino6198]

Sultan Vahdettin 🤲🏻☪️❤

[@koksalceylan9032]

He was a trator to his own People, Nation!. He dint whanted to live in The Hichaz land and in sted whent to live in San Remo Italy to have lots of freedom,Sex!.

[@sanjavukovic169]

This episode is obviously not intended towards someone who wants to learn about this sensitive topic from the outside? Everything is around the bush. Why is truth such that it must be tiptoed around, what is it that cant be said openly. Or is it cultural thing that it isnt polite to talk openly? I learned more from the comments section. Lots of sensitive things hidden between the lines, that I may guess right, I hope so. IMHO scolar task is to help create facts based science that is the same for all. Yet in science of history it is extremly difficult. The truth become skewd under political pressure of goverments. That is sad. My point is we all who have ears need to hear the truth, being Muslim or not.

[@MedEducationist]

Really appreciate this session.. but I didn't hit like .. as the likes are at the moment 313.. and I didn't feel like changing that number😍

[@crystalclear5047]

Got it Bless you 😊

[@haroon420]

What is the relevance of the Sykes picot agreement to Muslims of the Subcontinent? How does it impact their psyche? Or those from the far east or from Africa or from central and Eastern Europe?

[@billyjesus5442]

Turks made the ruling class for much of the entire muslim world. The Turkish fall meant the muslim world fell with it. Like wise the rise of the Turks hence will rise the entire Muslim world. This this is the secret as to how Muslims come out of their problems, support the Turks. They are the saviours of the islamic civilisation as they had been for the past 1000 years. All of these regions bar the odd one were ruled by Turkic dynasties from europe to east asia. In India the Mughuls were Turkic.

[@fuadahmed5501]

The Ottomans meant nothing in British India. Hundreds of thousands of British Indians incl Muslims fought in the British Indian army against the Ottomans in WW1 eg in Iraq and Palestine. Despite the Ottoman ‘Caliph’ instructing Muslims to support the Central Powers rather than the allies. Most Muslims didn’t care much about Ottoman delusions of leadership.

[@Al-bq5yr]

@@billyjesus5442 In my opinion it's time we stoped being provincial. Look at the Turks, Arabs, Indians as first and foremost MUSLIM. There is no preference of a Turk, an Arab An Indian etc.

[@billyjesus5442]

I disagree, its time Muslims recognise the realities of history. Why do i say this? Not because of ego or personal benefit, but to me it seems so obvious. If you want to solve the problems of the islamic world, you have to unite behind the Turks. You have to let them lead as they lead for much of the past. The Turks today are the only Muslim majority nation trying to build a 5th generation fighter jet the KAAN. Turks went to the rest of the Muslim world and offered them to come in on the project, not one did. They rather buy american, french, british, russian or chinese. Fine but buying their crap doesnt help Muslim civilisation in the long run. Muslims want to come out of this hell, get behind the Turks. Allah knew what he was doing when he created them. History shows us this. Arabs went against the the Turks and we see Gaza today burning. @@Al-bq5yr

[@mohdshariq5814]

1909ad the day Sultan Abdul Hameed Khan stepped down , ottamans ended

[@adamlabnaki9216]

I require a second listen to fully grasp. Dense in content. Must read any books Dr Yaqoob Ahmed has written.

[@khubza8999]

The closed caption translates "diin" as "Dean."

[@abdullahz.8134]

God knows best. But I think it was good thing abolishing khalifat for that time period. Otherwise caliph could be puppet of west for very long time maybe till today. And tradition for new caliph (father to son) couldnt be changed. If in the future muslims have chance to get chaliphate would be under better curcimstances. Arab countries hardly accepted by majority of muslims probably caliphate could be established in india-pakistan, indonesia, malaysia, maybe turks again etc. Also needs strong military to protect it.

[@ShakeOneOfficial]

Baghdadi wore a Fajr watch and not a Rolex, keep it real brothers

[@matthewmatthew1709]

Proof?

[@saliksayyar9793]

The Caliphate does not have to be a person, it can be an institution, like the Great National Assembly. This was suggested by Ziya Gokalp and discussed by Muhammad Iqbal

[@AhmedMushtaq-ux9wu]

Why you need to ask this question???????????????

[@midnightdl]

It was a disfunctional empire that could only go the way of defeat and shame. The closest thing to a modern time caliphate also didn't work out, unlike Britain which still has a Commonwealth and friends. Can't put my finger in why a califate might be a bad idea.

[@hobbabobba7912]

Lost ww1, the arabs revolted, and the turks essentially chose nationalism over islam.

[@MegaMaybury]

I find this man is saying alot and yet explaining nothing

[@matthewmatthew1709]

Lol my thoughts exactly

[@mohamedsalat4077]

Why didn't osman dynasty gave up for power and replace another dynasty that will solve everything for the empire 😊😊😊

[@rumeysa4686]

Ottoman dymasty had no say in that. The parliement which was founded by Atatürk and other commanders and soldiers was the new government. After WW1, they abolished the dynasty and found a new republic. They dynasty was forced to leave the country with no wealth, some of them became beggars in Europe, some of them died in poor conditions, it was very bad for all of them. The sultan (Vahdeddin is the last sultan) could gather up an army and resisted against the parliement to secure the old way of ruling but he didn't want any bloodshed after that horrible WW1. So he and his family were forced to left Turkey with nothing.

[@TheFeanor]

@@rumeysa4686 Dİlenci olmuşmuş yalanlara bak.

[@levolevo1059]

If you historian you must read the letters betwen harington and lord curzon aound 1920 ,,1in every 3 soldier in british army was muslim and fighting agains the ottoman at ww1 ,,,whole ottoman dynasty is in england ,,some in oxford ,,,terminated by ataturk and he did it vey well ,,

[@nmkzf]

Othman is headed by a Sultan Othmani is a Sultanate.

[@KyaSaj-mq6wn]

The reasons why the caliphates collapsed or expelled in Spain or even the ottoman sultanate is because they loved the Dunya and were neglecting the shariah! The sulnatate were drinking Alcohol etc...

[@billyjesus5442]

the kaffir love the dunya more and drink more and yet they conquered the world. Maybe our problem is that we dont love the dunya enough, maybe if we valued this life we would succeed.

[@na789]

The Ahmadiyya Khilafat The successors after The Promised Messiah(as) are known as the "Ahmadiyya Khilafat". Hazrat Hakeem Nooruddin(ra) Like Hazrat Abu Bakr, Hazrat Nooruddin established the unity of the Community after the death of the Promised Messiah. Hazrat Mirza Bashiruddin Mahmud Ahmad(ra) Also known as the "Promised Reformer", Hazrat Mahmud Ahmad introduced many improvements into the administration of the Community. Hazrat Mirza Nasir Ahmad(rh) As Khalifa, Hazrat Nasir Ahmad offered great leadership and guidance when Pakistan declared the Community to be non-Muslim. Hazrat Mirza Tahir Ahmad(rh) In addition to his many notable achievements, Hazrat Tahir Ahmad launched the first Muslim satellite television network. Hazrat Mirza Masroor Ahmad(at) As the current Khalifa, Hazrat Masroor Ahmad is guiding the Community through a time of great global skepticism and animosity towards Islam.

[@matthewmatthew1709]

No clue. Never heard of them. Must be part of a club

[@animatedislamichistory]

It's all nice and dandy but if Ataturk was able to do away with the Caliphate with the stroke of a pen, was it then really a caliphate ? When Selim II defeated the Mamluks in 1517 in Egypt, and took with him the token "caliph" of the time Al Mutawakkil III, where he still was ceremonially a "Caliph" but with no 0 practical power. How can a caliph be so powerless ? And this idea of the loss a united caliphate in 1924 is fantasy. We do not have a fully united caliphate since the time of the Khulafaa Rashidine. During the abbasids, the umayyads ruled in spain, the idrissids ruleds in Morocco, the Aghlabids in tunisia, and so on and so forth... these are facts. Suleyman the magnificent called himself many titles : "in Baghdad, I am the Shah, in Byzantine the Caeser, and Egypt the Sultan..." he did not even mention the word "Caliph", that should tell you something. On another note, one of the key reason of Islam's success in the world is its decentralized form of power. It always worked like that: keep the local elites for the administration and rule from afar. Learn your history people. Said otherwise, there is nothing that says we can't have multiple decentralized islamic states. As a matter of historical FACT, we always had ever since the Rashidine.

[@Wandering_Owl]

Exactly

[@ousmanejalloh7312]

You can have multiple muslims states but the caliphate still needs to be there. This is ijma of the ulema. Through out the 1400 years of the ummah the khilifa exsisted in some manner

[@randomguy-kn1wl]

the meaning of the caliph lost its meaning since the abbasids. this did not starts with the ottomans.

[@aligokce7836]

It was not with a stroke of a pen. There were several precipitating events. The stroke of the pen was the straw that broke the camel's back.

[@mahmerkhan1287]

All that you have stated above are opinions and interpretations of some events. The gist of the discussion (in the video) is the overall role of Muslims in geopolitics in the relatively recent history.

[@Shaggy-8392]

A scouser?! Seriously?! You just undermined all your work 😂😂😂

[@AhmedMushtaq-ux9wu]

Wo mahzaz thy zamany main Muslman ho kar. Tum kwar hohay tarik e QUR'AN ho kar.

[@AlbertBormant]

The Armenians remember

[@thetruth8295]

I get lies vibe , What are u talking about ? What is the difference between nationality and the idea of being the chosen ppl ? Turkey is another state of the still existing anglo empire.

[@haroon420]

Why should British Muslim need to study Ottoman History? I say this from the perspective that history is important for all students but Muslims don’t need a special syllabus to teach us how good or bad the Islamic kingdoms of the past were. We’ve all left our ancestral homelands and came here to make a new life. We should let go of the old world and make a British Muslim identity.

[@haroon420]

The brother was allowed to just talk without really being challenged.

[@fuadahmed5501]

Haroon makes a very good point about the relevance of this subject to our everyday lives. Talking about ancient empires, conquests and occupations only creates bad blood both between Muslims but also in relations with Non Muslims.

[@fatimapatel3792]

@@fuadahmed5501 It makes sense, but i still think it is important for everyone to be aware of history, from a neutral stance just like in school we learn about british history because i believe history does some what form your identity and knowing where u came from. Also from history, u can learn alot of lessons to carry with u in life

[@cardanotony1097]

😮😮😮 If u don’t know ur history especially the ( the ottomans) U can’t see ur future 👍👍👍

[@haroon420]

52:34 so basically ottomans tried to play the game, and lost. To the victors go the spoils. Ottomans thought they could make some quick cheeky grab of lands and it backfired on them. No we have academics almost suggesting, ottomans we’re hard done by. No, the austrio Hungarian empire was probably older and more prestigious than the Ottoman Empire and they were also swept away with the tides of history. Stop crying for the Ottomans. As the guest alluded to himself, the Turks themselves are happy with their republic.

[@orka6848]

Pfft.. Sorry dude. Austrio is older than Turks? k.

[@billyjesus5442]

not really, you really need to speak someone Turkish who knows Turkish history. It fascinates me how many muslims of non-Turk ethnicity get it so so wrong.

[@fuadahmed5501]

You’re right. Too much nostalgia amongst Islamic activists. The idea of a United Caliphate Defending Muslims worldwide is a modern construction. The Ottomans were just another empire. The far stronger German, Austro-Hungarian and Russian empires also collapsed after WW1. It was the fruit of military defeat in the War.

[@billyjesus5442]

@@fuadahmed5501 yes and no, no other race has fought and died more defending Islam then the Turks. The Ottomans up to a point were more powerful then all of those empires. The Russians used to pay the Ottomans tax to leave them alone. The Hapsburgs capital was Vienna and the Ottoman armies lands were on their borders. The Germans for much of Ottoman history were nothing but a thousand principalities. The problems the Ottomans had is that while Europe had many powerful global empires to ally together with and fight the Turks, the Muslims outside the Turks were pretty much weak and useless as they still are today. Today i see the Turks building a 5th gen fighter yet, meanwhile i see the pakistanis still struggling with basic hygine.

[@fuadahmed5501]

@@billyjesus5442 I was talking about the aftermath of WW1. All these more powerful European empires fell, so how could a weak empire like the Ottomans survive losing a world war? We saw exactly how weak modern Turkey is by the fact Turkey was forced to dial back its intervention in Syria once the Russian bear got involved and bombed Turkish soldiers in Syria. Secondly, when more than 40,000 died in the earthquake recently and the disaster response was so weak that foreign aid and expertise was needed. Finally, the Turkish 5th Gen fighter is being co-built by US firm Boeing, is powered by a General Electric engine and is still a concept yet to fly. 😂 So precious little Turkish about it.

[@fuadahmed5501]

We simply don’t need a Caliphate. We have the nation state now. Even the poorest country can marshal more resources today and do things eg provide universal education and access to basic health services tvat Ottomans couldn’t do in the medieval period. We should talk about subjects more relevant to our lives than an ancient empire!

[@Al-bq5yr]

It's clear that u haven't the magnificent achievements of the Otomon Caliphate. Maybe if u took the trouble to research this, you would appreciate their contributions

[@matthewmatthew1709]

He is comfortable living in the uk. He loves his 9-5. He doesn’t care about changing his comfort

[@user-kj8yl6sn2z]

The Islamic caliphate fell after the Mamluk state marginalized the Abbasid caliph, then the Ottoman state wrested power from the Abbasid caliph in Egypt, so the Muslims no longer had a caliph. The Ottomans were sultans who invaded the Arab world with blood and took control of the Arab countries by invading the Levant and Egypt and overthrowing the Mamluk state Religiously: The Turkish Ottomans encouraged the building of shrines and the supplication of the dead instead of the Creator, and from behaviors that distance Muslims from loving this state, which contradicts the constants of religion. Ethnically: the Turks were racist towards the Arabs and had crimes against the Arabs, so a number of movements took place that contradicted the existence of the Ottoman Empire. Historically: The beginning of the Ottoman Empire in the Arab countries began with a war that swept across the Arab countries and wrested the rule of the Islamic world from the Abbasid caliph and overthrew the Mamluk state. Errors in religion and in racism and history.

[@billyjesus5442]

The mamluks were Turks. They even called egypt back then Turkiye. Before the Ottomans entered the middle east the entire region was ruled by Turkic dynasties. Remember the seljuks Turks swept into the middle east 500 years before the Ottomans did. Turks had about 40 empires in history. After that point the Ottomans, Safavids and Muguls were all Turkic dynasties. The Turks are the Vikings of the Muslim world. The ruling class of the religion. Allah knows best.

[@randomguy-kn1wl]

this guy is an idiot. He is one these people who will always talk about arab superiority when it comes to islam. Talks about racism and history but is racist himself. If the turks were so "racist" towards the arabs, why did they stayed under them for 400 years and some even became voluntarily vassal states? Keep your hate in the gulf states. Arabs treat south east asians and somalis like slaves in the gulf states.

[@Al-bq5yr]

Can we leave Judgement of what Shirk is or what isn't Shirk to Allah swt? A bit of Humility before Allah swt The Judge is in my opinion called for.

[@cardanotony1097]

😮😮😮 Excuse us friend but I must say that ur worse than a pinnoChios

[@fulanibnalan]

The Ottoman empire was not a Khilafah. The Sultans where not from Quraish and many left Islam due to major Kufr and Shirk like abandoning the Shariah or extreme Sufi practices such as grave worshipping or dua to "saints" or the prophet ﷺ.

[@jediTempleGuard]

what a bs... Here we have another gentleman deciding who is muslim, kuffar etc. Allah knows the best and he will judge us all. So be careful with your words.

[@matthewmatthew1709]

True. Be careful what u say