Why Do People Hate On Stonemaier Games

[@sharonlee9285]

In Australia we call it the ‘Tall Poppy’ syndrome. When someone is doing well you want to chop them down for no real reason other than they are doing better than you (or nicer) than you. A lot of it comes from envy. Jamie seems like a decent and genuine guy who has time for people and the industry. He has been able to bring his skills and passion into his company and his product. Some people just can’t stand it when others are successful. I would rather have the board gaming world over run with people like Jamie than a lot of the other ‘types’ that seem to have a very loud voice in the gaming world.

[@TheBoardMeeting]

🙌🙌

[@ChrisCypher]

Exactly. Even more so when you're within a niche. There's a tendency for many to want heavier and more out there as they get deeper into the hobby (same like music). When someone creates something with a bit more mass market potential (not that stonemeier is light but they have a design philosophy and arcane heavy games ain't it) people can further "validate" their chops by being "beyond THOSE games." It's like building your tower even higher. "You may like hobbyist board games that have SOME complexity, but everyone knows wingspan. It's not even that good (because too many noobs like it)....last week I saw this amazing band with only 30 people in the audience. They were much better than what you like." (Interchangeable. Ha)

[@carlagiannioudis621]

I do not understand either why people hate on Jamey. I am guessing it is jealousy of his success? He does so much for the hobby and I can not think of another publisher/designer who highlights other games like he does. I highly respect him and his games and always look forward to his weekly videos as he always talks passionately about his games and mostly other games, other designers, and also other content creators. He is such a positive upbeat person, and in my opinion is one of the best ambassador's for the hobby. I just hate to hear that some talk badly about him. Why do we need to tear people down? If you don't like a game just carry on and promote the ones you do like. These designers are artists, this is their craft, so we should just celebrate them and their talents, otherwise us gamers would have no hobby. Even if I don't like a game I still respect the mechanics and design of it.

[@TheBoardMeeting]

Very well put Carla 🙌

[@terry3733H]

I suspect it's toxic alpha gamers and publishers who don't like the changes Stonemaier brings, the changes may cut into their influence in the market or their local communities... 😊 people only attack when under threat. I'm glad Jamie left KS coz he says the comments got too toxic.

[@miseryguts36]

I became a Stonemaier Champion because I like the way the company does business. I love Jamey's openness about everything they do. He really does go above and beyond to try to help customers. I like some of their games and have bought them and there are some I don't think I'd like (usually based on theme) so I don't buy those. Their production quality is excellent. I like that they don't announce a game until it's ready to ship. I pity those spiteful, sad individuals who rate Stonemaier Games as a 1 just because they're made by Stonemaier. These people need to grow up and take a long, hard look at themselves.

[@TheBoardMeeting]

Yes, if you don't like a game or company just move on and let other people enjoy them. No need to bring people down just because they feel differently.

[@Groovestonenz]

200% this 👆🏽

[@boardgamepretzel3253]

These are the types of videos I think you shine in. You are reasonable, encouraging, and enjoyable to listen to. I like a few of their games but wouldn't say I'm really a fan of them but it always baffled me why people are so insistent on bringing them down.

[@TheBoardMeeting]

Thank you, Pretzel. Appreciate it.

[@StevenStJohn-kj9eb]

Scythe was my first love, but I like what you said about Jamey Stegmaier talking about non-SM Games on his channel. There's quite a few games on my shelf that I got interested first because he talked up the game on his channel (Orleans, Fantasy Realms, Hanamikoji, Clank In Space). He is also pretty generous in supporting Kickstarter projects and other content creators.

[@PamWD]

My husband and I have never found anything with Tapestry or Scythe to be unbalanced, so we never made the changes Jamey came out with. Played Tapestry about 10 or so times and absolutely love it. I, too, don't understand why people hate on games that other people enjoy. I'll never understand it. Do I like all of the games from his comapny? No, I don't, but I do like a lot of them. I've never met Jamey, but he does seem to be a nice person, and he puts out some fantastic games.

[@andrewclifton1233]

Stonemaier games have great production value. The bling factor definitely helps get the game to the table for my wife. Scythe is her favorite game. Personally I'm indifferent to the bling. I'm happy pushing colored cubes in Dominant species. Then again I grew up playing risk where the armies were Roman numerals

[@TheBoardMeeting]

Looks of a game definitely matter more to some people than others. I like my games to look good but I definitely enjoy my share of euro looking cube pushers.

[@almondwine]

Exactly this. There aren’t any other publishers out there who understand how much look and feel matters. Except maybe Childress, but the business models are completely different, and Childress’s understanding of production value doesn’t translate to *delivering* it. (No hate to GH and FH, it’s just that it would be a $350 game under Stonemaier!)

[@dsquaredgames9286]

So proud to be a Stonemaier Champion and Ambassador. I have a whole shelf of all of the games. I have met Jamey, played games with him, and had dinner with him. He's awesome!

[@TheBoardMeeting]

I remember you talking about that the first time we met. I bet that was a fun time!

[@Ian-R-Wilz]

I’m just finding this video. I’m a Champion and recently an Ambassador. I love everything about SM. Their games rule my solo collection and they all hit for me. Some more than others but I enjoy them all. They constantly put out very good/great games. Jamey is one of the most transparent and active owners and does a lot for the board game community. His weekly live streams and rolling realms live plays along with his many blog posts is great. He communicates with the board game community.

[@TheBoardMeeting]

Well put 👏

[@Ian-R-Wilz]

@@TheBoardMeetingI initially commented prior to watching but now that I’ve watched I agree with the reasons you put in for why people do like SM. I can see the reasons you said why people hate, but I feel a lot of those are petty reasons (like saying the games are overrated or hate Jamey). Another reason Jamey I love Jamey is his philosophy on things . Wyrmspan was my 10th SM title.

[@TheBoardMeeting]

@@Ian-R-Wilz I enjoy Stonemaier and regularly watch videos Jamey puts out. I genuinely think he puts out quality products and love his transparency. I've played all Stonemaiera games except My Little Scythe. I recently made a video ranking all 17 of their games.

[@MerrillWhiteKalEl]

Makes no sense to me, they makes some excellent games, and do some great things for the industry. Jamey does a ton of outreach and goodwill to advance board games. Probably similar to sports. People love to hate the Yankees, Dodgers, Lakers, Cowboys that typically are consistent good teams. I view this the same when people hate on Stonemaier and CMON etc.

[@TheBoardMeeting]

That is a very good analogy. I do agree about Jamey as well. He seems to always want to do good for the community and grow the hobby as a whole.

[@grog3514]

I might be considered a stonemaier hater. I think Jamey is a great ambassador to the hobby and his games are really beautiful. But everytime I play his games, I see the gears and everything feels joyless but beautiful. (With the exception of viticulture) Every other game of his are like plastic fruit. They look delicious but when you look closer, they are disappointing. Wingspan is the epitome of this. It's gorgeous and unique but it's a lonely game of effective but dull mechanisms. The puzzle it offers is fine but it's mostly just seeing which cards will best help your engine and following through. I rate it a 6 and that's probably a bit biased because I love the theme and bits. But the game is pretty bland. I'm glad lots of people love it, but it does worry me that it's sending the market signals that component quality and presentation are more profitable than good gameplay. But perhaps that's what most people want...

[@TheBoardMeeting]

@@grog3514 I've said this before, nothing wrong if they aren't your type of games but going out of your way to tell people they are wrong and his games are horrible I think only hurts the hobby. For example, you don't like the gameplay of Wingspan. Nothing wrong with that, I love Wingspan and trying to build up my bird engine. It's very satisfying to me to watch that engine grow and to do more and more as the game goes on. I feel like so many engine builders end right when your engine starts getting good where Wingspan allows me to play with that engine a little longer than most. Everyone has different tastes in games so my thing is, let people enjoy a game if they enjoy it. 🤷 No need to bring others down if they feel differently.

[@grog3514]

@@TheBoardMeeting And I don't. The only reason I commented is that it's the video topic. My dislike for most of his games applies to middling ratings on bgg and offering alternatives if they come up at game night. Other than that, it's none of my business what games people prefer. My gripe is that I think his games are pushing the market ina direction I don't like. But I'm just one random guy and my opinion is just that. But I only talk about it if prompted.

[@TheBoardMeeting]

@@grog3514 That's the best way to be. I say prop up the games you love. Share the games you love. And nothing wrong with having a good conversation with someone about games you dislike and other alternatives to try out. 👍

[@RobertKonigsberg]

On a more serious note, I thought your video was really thoughtful, if short on dog. That gained my interest. The substantial comments gained my subscription. This channel seems worth my time.

[@TheBoardMeeting]

Well thank you Robert. And don't worry, Griff the board game pup has made a few appearances.

[@LastCallForShaw.v2]

It is very tough to hate a guy who constantly tries to help build up the community with his weekly videos, blog post, and consistent information of new board games from other creators, but of course people will still try to make up a reason for the hate.

[@TheBoardMeeting]

Yes, very true

[@bethezebra]

Appreciate Jamey and his games a lot, though it turns me off when he brings politics into gaming. Thankfully that's rarely so far.

[@CarlToonist]

I agree with you, people should not be trying to "balance" the popularity of a game - it's popularity, that's the point of it. Use your energy to vote up the games you enjoy, not to tear down someone else's opinion.

[@jonio38]

Thank you! I have wondered about this for awhile. I've only played a few of their games but I really like what I've played.

[@TheBoardMeeting]

Thanks for watching 😊

[@El-gu2hi]

I’m actually not a fan of stonemaier games but am thrilled that a small operation has made it mainstream in the hobby, and that so many people from everywhere love their games. I also appreciate that stegmaier himself is so supportive of other small publishers and content creators. He’s a great success story.

[@imchaotix5450]

Man you’re one of the realest people on here like actuallylol channel because at the end of the day, they are just board games and you want to have fun with the people you’re playing with. When I play video faces online I’m super competitive and want to win every time, but that’s against people I don’t know. When I’m playing with friends I just want everyone to have a good time and it doesn’t matter what the board game is Side note- I’m also very new to this board gaming niche of people and I can honestly say the people who leave reviews like 1s and stuff are miserable inside. You can’t convince me that these are normal people that have lives because board games were essentially created to create social memories between each other. How has a hobby you’re so interested in made you so spiteful that you have to be so snobby about everything you love. This goes for every single type of hobby that exists and we all know them as gatekeepers basically.

[@bestatstartrek2179]

The fact that he is reachable and available to the public speaks volumes

[@TheBoardMeeting]

I remember a couple years ago my group lost a couple little pieces for Scythe. I emailed stonemaier seeing if I could buy replacement pieces. He emailed me back within minutes sending me those pieces for free.

[@JokinJoe]

I love their games. I don’t really care what others think, because to me presentation is HALF of the game. Without presentation a game is just math which is boring.

[@talented_turt1e]

Absolutely! I'm an artist, so half the enjoyment for me is the look and feel of the game!

[@adamlong9728]

Yep! Half of a game is looks and components. I've always thought that. It's why I play Scythe. My girl plays Scythe because she loves resource mgmt. So we're both happy.

[@franktitzler2689]

Very thoughtful and well said. I really support your conclusions. Stonemaier is definitely a positive force in this hobby.

[@TheBoardMeeting]

Thanks Frank

[@daemanj]

I love my stonemaier games. They got me back into gaming. On tapestry, they released a pack to rebalanced all the civ cards. 1 hate i have found is a shipping issue with smaller shops. There is a long explanation about it from stonemaier but some people wont read it and feel they hate small game shops (not true).

[@SJAC2]

wow! I didn't know about this. I love some Stonemaier games and really enjoy Jamey's videos

[@terry3733H]

besides envy, I think some hardcore longtime members of the gaming community dislike the changes Stonemaier games bring-- changes that they may feel their exclusive niche hobby threatened: popularizing different themes such as nature and wine-making, attracting new gamers that may "dilute" the "authentic" heavy games, and changing the conventional ways of a theme such as Tapestry is not really a civilization game. But game design requires creativity and changes are inevitable for survival, for any industry. The more diversity the better future for game developers, publishers, FLGS, gamers -- more choices! I respect SM's customer service, from answering queries, ordering to shipment. It's a growing community, let's get along and learn from each other 😃

[@bibleboardgames]

I agree. We should be having fun. If a game doesn't appeal to you, just find another game. We like Viticulture and bought Wingspan as a gift. Might try Scythe or Tapestry if time permits. They do have good quality. I'll watch Jamie's reviews along with other people when looking for new games.

[@steveskew1097]

I absolutely love Stonemaier and the videos Jamey puts out are such an awesome look into the publisher.

[@twimperium4466]

The board game community can get pretty hostile. I'm like you, I think Stonemaier is good for the hobby. There are a few Stonemaier games I like and few I don't at all. Good company overall. Thanks for another interesting topic. Love your calm demeanor of explaining things and your opinion.

[@TheBoardMeeting]

That it can, and I have never understood it how people can get so aggressive over how much others enjoy a game.

[@andrewwalsh531]

It's something I have noticed & have been a little taken aback by tbh. Wingspan is a good game w/ great production quality. For what I paid & what was in the box, it represents one of the best 'values' I have in my collection. There is a guy on YT that pretty much devotes his channel to hating on Wingspan like every other video. His reason is that it lacks theme, ie., he rates it's a 1 (out of 10) for theme. That's someone that has credibility issues, imo. Viticulture is also a good game that we own. Scythe is a good game, just not in love w/ the combat mechanism in that one. But to each their own....trying to 'invent' reasons to hate on games is unecessary....just say you don't care for it & move on.....no need for cries of "overrated".

[@starshocker]

Think Stonemaier games are great for most of them. I may not like them all but on the other hand I don't understand why people would hate on something just because it's popular instead of its flaws.

[@TheBoardMeeting]

I said it once in the video, but I think it is important. Let people enjoy the things they enjoy. I think we need more positive things in our life. If you don't enjoy their games that is perfectly acceptable, bringing someone down because they do like them though is not ok to me.

[@Gmoney14]

This was an interesting video. I love Stonemaier games, but I have one big issue with the company. I have not been a fan of the activism that is more prevalent in the company. I wish board game companies would just stick to board games and leave the politics out of it.

[@daniellebackus819]

I don’t think it’s fair to make rules for what artists should do with their art. If you like it, you can buy it, and if you don’t, then don’t. Some people like autobiographies, others like murder mysteries, others like epic fantasy… doesn’t make sense to limit authors to certain topics, so why would we limit board games to certain topics?

[@longtimeninerfan1309]

You hit on all the pertinent points! (Score one for the dog! 🤣)

[@TheBoardMeeting]

He just loves running around me while I'm trying to record. 😂

[@sirguy6678]

Great video! Basically- “haters gotta hate”

[@chuckm1961]

For the same reason, I hated Journey in 1982, when I was in college, and they were very popular.

[@pm71241]

Don't hate Stonemaier games. But I've never had a reason to want one.

[@BoardInTheHouseBGAplayer]

Just goes to show, if you are willing to put yourself out there, then there will always be haters that grow at ratio with your fans. Hopefully the ratio is in your favor but there will always be haters

[@TheBoardMeeting]

Very true

[@CreakyTableGames]

I enjoyed the video, but especially enjoy all the positive/thoughtful comments. You all rock! 🙂

[@TheBoardMeeting]

Alot of positivity here! I thought this video would get a bunch of hate comments but luckily not soo much at all 😁

[@unlimitedrabbit]

If people want some idea of the kind of stand-up human being that Jamie Stegmeier is, one needs only to look at his heartfelt comment in Thinker/Themer's Viticulture World video.

[@bankingonmoney8224]

I agree with your points. Would have to say what owner of a company calls out good mechanics from other game companies publicly. I believe that shows alot of character. There are games I enjoy by them and others I do not. That can be said with many game companies. I believe the "me" society in today world is putting a damper on world. By the way cannot wait until the announcement of the new viticulture expansion on April 13th.

[@TheBoardMeeting]

I hadn't heard anything about a new viticulture expansion. That excites me! Thanks!

[@dylangajewski]

I'm not sure how anyone could say anything bad about Jamie, regardless of how they feel about his games.

[@ddobrien1]

Answer = jealousy + ignorance

[@hyvll]

I don't hate, but designs coming out of this production house are less and less exciting for me for what I think are 2 main reasons: Some overproduction quirk (like Tapestry Landmarks) and Red Rising (gold lining on some cards which are oversized,etc). Even though SM games are priced very fairly, I still think it is a step too much. Second reason: my taste as a gamer have changed, I prefer more intricate games and SM productions feel too 1 dimentional for me. It is still a wonderfull production house with great service and games making a positive buzz for the hobby.

[@jacobjslee]

I get the sense reviewers don't like Jamey's embargo on reviews. I feel that those reviewers also don't like that he has the power to have such embargoes. I can objectively say I dislike most of his designs. I like a couple of them, but the ones I dislike I really don't like them. Having said that, all of my interactions with Jamey have been positive. I think he is talented and a great businessman. The board game landscape is better because of his impact.

[@Gakraemer86]

People hate on Jamey and Stonemaier for the same reason people love to hate on Brady and the Pats or Lebron etc. Especially in a non-mainstream hobby where Jamey and Stonemaier represent a highly popular accessible and widely enjoyable experience.

[@therealBocaStudios]

Jamey isn’t the GOAT..my word 😂😂😂

[@windyhillbomber]

As Shakespeare said , “ full of sound and fury, signifying nothing”. This is the perceived issue with Stonemaier Games. Fantastic on production but ultimately lacking depth of gameplay.

[@nicktrkulja]

Balanced view. Well done

[@musicforall1859]

Stonemaier Games is Gold

[@bestatstartrek2179]

They make excellent games

[@torelaursen4139]

None of the stonemaier games I have played are 1/10 However none of them are 9 or 10/10 either. I totally agree that stonemaier games have great production and very nice components. Ofte very nice art too. But I think the gameplay, the player interaction and replayability is the most important thing. This is where I find alot of issues with alot of the stonemaier games and this is why I rate many of the mediocre 4-6/10. Art work and production value is just not enough in my book. Scythe and Viticulture are probably their two best games in my opinion and the only ones I would rate 8/10. A few 7s and then alot of gorgously produced mediocre games like Tapastry, Red Rising, Pendulum, charterstone. Libertalia is one of the few examples where the stonemaier production is actually worse than the original. Animals dressed as humans and the theme is just totally stripped away. Very disapointing.

[@HorseIRL]

I think Wingspan is overrated but I love Stonemaier games. I just get bored playing it and if people like the game that's none of my business. I think people have too much time on their hands to go and actively rate the game a 1 on bgg. I like Scythe the most.

[@LeeKenshin7]

Just like all things in life, there will be those who hate on others for their success. Consider the New England Patriots. Actually, the more successful you are, the more hate you will get but it's usually just the vocal minority.

[@TheBoardMeeting]

Very true

[@deepdivemusicreactions]

I personally don't like the sterille estetics of their games, too polished game mechanics and souless gameplay experience.

[@dragonlance6027]

I just haven't liked any of their latest games. I don't care to keep supporting it except for new wingspan expansions.

[@origenward3845]

I think if you really look deeper into stonemaier games you'll have nothing but good things to say apart from them being imperfect human beings.

[@mabos555]

I think his games for solo are just automa and I don't like vp based games anyway so I thought the solo mode should be different but no it's not the case.... The games are just OK even the apps but there are nothing there to grow on you and try different ways to play every game is same in his feeling anyway

[@TheBoardMeeting]

If you don't like VP games, I would definitely not expect you to like their games, or would I recommend them. Nothing wrong with not liking a game, this is more for the extremists that say their games are 1's and pure garbage. Though as far as games not playing different from game to game. Scythe and Tapestry have a bunch of factions that play very different and cause you to play to that faction's ability. Wingspan has hundreds of cards now which will change how you build your engine each game depending on which cards are available.

[@mabos555]

@@TheBoardMeeting I played wingspan and viticulture on the apps. Besides the fact that I hate vp anyway, the apps are great the games? Not so much. I don't get why the extremist people says wingsspan is that awesome there are not that much combos there and every man for himself anyway... As for viticulture the same shit people adore the worker placement aspect here but once you know your strategy you will always follow it to win. Meh games in general, great production and apps don't get me wrong and the fact that he always wants his games to be 1-5 players is great but I'll play other games anyway... Raiders instead of viticulture for example and any other deck building for the combo instead of wingspan.... When other do it better well go for the better instead. I'm not a hater for this games I just see them lack of becoming something I'll love anyway since why does it matter I hate vp games. Why can't he make games that are not boring euro? 🤦 He had the potential but instead choose meh games Since pendulum or even before back in 2019 his games sucks every year

[@jonathanpickles2946]

I have asked before to no avail... What are some games you like that do not have VP? I too am pretty fatigued with VP.

[@TheBoardMeeting]

@@jonathanpickles2946 Well most cooperative games are not VP based but have win and loss conditions and I love me some cooperative games. Unmatched is just battling until the other player/team is dead. Social deduction games don't use them with my favorites being Don't Mess with Cthulhu and Avalon. Neuroshima Hex is another thinky battling game. If you're looking at solo games, The Lost Expedition is a great game you are just trying to travel through the jungle and make it to the end without everyone dying.

[@jonathanpickles2946]

@The Board Meeting I meant the other guy @mabos555 as I suspect our tastes might have more in common ;) Or rather I already play co-ops & wargames (very occasionally nowadays) & avoid social deduction games. There are other games where richest player wins which is arguably VP by another name but usually lacks the point salad character that I find uninspiring in a lot of VP games.

[@jonathanpickles2946]

The overrated part you sort of answer yourself. People are interested in the games not because they are good but because they are Stonemeier and this gets them attention instead of other games people feel are more deserving. Sometimes I get an "emperors new clothes" feeling about these things too. The buildings in Tapestry for one which I felt were laughably awful and there to push up the component to increase the cost/profit per unit. Jamie is charming and my usual comment is that as game designers go he is brilliant at marketing. I do not see boardgaming as one hobby but as lots of related hobbies; usually there is overlap but not always so I don't really get any benefit from millions of people playing Wingspan. It's a good game but not one I would ever seek out to play.

[@TheBoardMeeting]

I can understand that perspective but that is going to happen with pretty much anything in life where the big fish do take some of the limelight away from smaller fish that deserve a piece of the pie. That is why I think it is important for people to talk about the underrated games out there from smaller companies.

[@jonathanpickles2946]

@@TheBoardMeeting One thing on BGG I really dislike is the summary of the Hotness article/videos. These are games that are already being puffed to the max &don't need any more!

[@TheBoardMeeting]

@@jonathanpickles2946 I have never really paid too much attention to that. They should have a games flying under the radar section, if they don't already.

[@BobLee-df4zh]

Why don't people do that with Ewe? There are quite a few games that have gotten a "pass" because they have Ewe Rosenberg on the box. Why is Stomemeier the punching bag?

[@jonathanpickles2946]

@@BobLee-df4zh That confused the hell out of me since I was watching lamb YTs! Uwe is "only" a designer, I have never seen him push anything, though I think he owns part of Lookout which makes most of his games. Jamie feels like a marketer first with a side in game design, he puts himself in the firing line.

[@RobertKonigsberg]

needs more dog ;)

[@TheBoardMeeting]

We could always use more dogs 🐕

[@therealBocaStudios]

Reading the comments 😂 no one answered your question..just agreed with you..SAD. To answer your question, because their games have a low player engagement. I own a number of them, but they are not the hat you bring to the table if you want to have a great game night. Jamey by his own admissions has a thing against his play testers, he believes they are wrong and he’s right. Jamey’s is fantastic at hype but the games never reach the level he made them out to be. He doesn’t give other credit, and in fact has even badmouthed his cofounder Alan Stone in an interview with Gabe at BGDL. He wouldn’t have a company what it is if it wasn’t for everyone else around him, he’s not that smart. The thing Id ask you, why do a video if your only opinion is “I don’t understand?” That puzzles me..

[@manhogbear1086]

Because they go woke

[@WD40forthemind]

Yes, off putting. They make games for all sexual orientation. What???... They are changing the names of birds in Wingspan so as not to offend anybody.

[@manhogbear1086]

@@WD40forthemind ("They make games for all sexual orientation" especially Chimos!!) i didn't even hear about the bird thing. Jaimie probably spent money on a person to tell them to do that too.

[@LastNameTom]

Because almost all of his games are you playing the game by yourself, with other people who are playing the game with themselves, trying to get to the finish line first.