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Why Dubious Consent or "Dubcon" is an Important Concept

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Alex Zorach

Alex Zorach

6 жыл бұрын

I often hear people talk about consent in such a way that they try to force any sexual situation into a category of "consensual" or "non consensual" (rape or sexual assault), sometimes arguing back and forth in front of the person who opened up about being in that situation in ways that can be retraumatizing to that person.
Not all situations can be cleanly classified as consensual or not. Alcohol or other drugs, age and maturity, differences in reading and interpreting nonverbal or sometimes even verbal communication, and incomplete information when discussing situations where we weren't present or situations in the past, are some of many factors that can contribute to there being a "gray area" where it is hard to cleanly classify a particular act as fully consensual or fully non-consensual.
Trying to force our own narrative of these gray areas either being one way or the other can be harmful to the people who have been through these situations in a variety of ways.
I explain that "dubious consent" is something best avoided, but something that still exists in the real world and as such, acknowledging its existence is important when discussing situations that arise in our lives and the lives of others.

Пікірлер: 10
@sylviaodhner
@sylviaodhner 5 жыл бұрын
I'm glad you brought up the idea of someone telling someone else they've been raped when the person who had the experience doesn't see it that way. I think people often think they're helping the person when they say stuff like that, but I've heard examples of that kind of thing being traumatizing. So I like your perspective on this.
@AlexZorach
@AlexZorach 5 жыл бұрын
Yeah. I think that's an important issue. It not only arises in the context of dubious consent, but also when people have different ideas of what constitutes "rape". Ironically, I think forcing our own definition of "rape" on another person who might have been in an uncomfortable sexual situation, and may not want to characterize, describe, or label the situation in that way, can be a form of non-consensual behavior. It can feel like a violation. I think it's important to be really cautious with these things.
@sylviaodhner
@sylviaodhner 5 жыл бұрын
I agree. I was thinking earlier about how, I think sometimes when you tell someone that they were incapable of consenting in a given situation, and they believe that they did consent, it takes away the person's agency in a way. The way I like to frame it is that in some situations it's unethical to accept someone else's consent because there's a RISK that it wasn't given freely and rationally.
@ettinakitten5047
@ettinakitten5047 5 жыл бұрын
In fanfics I've also seen dubcon applied to situations where both people's ability to consent is impaired. For example, in A/B/O settings, there's a lot of stories where an Alpha and an Omega are both overwhelmed by hormones to the point where they can't control their actions, and it gets called dubcon. It reminds me of the real-life scenario of two people who are both equally drunk, both into the grey area of consent due to drunkenness. I've had people ask "if they're both too drunk to consent, did they both rape each other?" Or even use that scenario to accuse people of misandry, based on the assumption that a heterosexual mutually-drunk sex situation will be interpreted as male-on-female rape. To me, the mutually drunk situation seems pretty clearly an example of dubcon, and I like the idea of not having to say it's rape (which implies that someone involved is a rape perpetrator) or not rape (as if it was fully competent consent).
@AlexZorach
@AlexZorach 5 жыл бұрын
Yes, I didn't talk about this in the video but the situations where both people have impaired judgment is another example of a situation where you can have dubious consent. This actually came up at my undergrad college; there was an incident where two people each accused each other of sexual assault. I suspect these sorts of situations are probably pretty common. Just because people don't necessarily end up accusing each other of things, doesn't necessarily mean it's not a situation of dubious consent either.
@comelearnsomali4511
@comelearnsomali4511 4 жыл бұрын
Ettina Kitten what's "A/B/O"?
@cyberpunklain
@cyberpunklain 3 жыл бұрын
@@comelearnsomali4511 a=alpha b=beta o=omega if you want to know more abt the pheromones and stuff google omegaverse
@n.c.435
@n.c.435 5 жыл бұрын
Yes this!!!! like, it's best to not put someone in a situation that could be classified as "dubcon" at all, but things like that _do_ happen and it's important to address that. Also p.s.- you're so well spoken??!??!!! I'm so jealous, I have to spend like an hour to ramble out ten minutes' worth of concepts lmao. anyway yea thank u for this video, i'm glad that it's being addressed!
@AlexZorach
@AlexZorach 5 жыл бұрын
Thank you! I actually made about three unsuccessful takes of this video, which I stopped part-way through. Then I recorded it fully, and decided to scrap that take...and recorded yet another full take which was this one. And then I edited it so there are a few parts where I edit out some flubbed sections, which I re-did over in the moment. So...I'm not actually as articulate in realtime as this video makes it out to seem. Also, I've had a lot of practice: I've published over 150 videos now, so I have a lot of experience and have had some time to get better. If you watch my first video: kzbin.info/www/bejne/aIPKm2eIp8ydo68 You'll see I'm a good bit more awkward! I also have a lot of experience doing other things, like face-to-face discussions, that flow into my abilities to make these videos. I think if you put time into it, you can become more articulate and confident speaking on video too, if that's something you want!
@sophiamarie9522
@sophiamarie9522 5 жыл бұрын
I’m writing a research paper rn and just wanted to thank you for this video! It cleared up a lot for me and I appreciate your take on it. Thank you!!!
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