Why Experienced Tuners Use LAMBDA and Not AFR When Doing a Flex Fuel Tune

This short video will explain why more experienced tuners will tune using LAMBDA when doing a flex fuel tune.
0:24 LAMBDA vs AFR (Air Fuel Ratio)
0:35 More experienced tuners tend to use LAMBDA
0:55 ...fueling adjustment based off that...
1:15 Flex fuel will vary the stoichiometric point automatically
1:41 Let's take a look at this chart LAMBDA VS AFR
1:55 You are going to be chasing your tail all the time
2:18 LAMDA is never going to change
3:00 Let's look at this chart again
3:30 EQ Ratio chart
4:15 If you think/tune in LAMBDA you can avoid this problem
4:36 Check out our Level 2 Advanced tuning guide for more tuning information
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[@WarpedPerception]

WOW!! I have never seen this explained better !. Thanks for the refresher, just got my Supra out and tuning and it wasn't fresh in my head ... Thanks again!

[@TheTuningSchool]

Yes! You're welcome and thanks for watching. Feel free to keep us posted on your tuning journey!

[@Joseph195z]

He was talking about flex fuel when the alcohol content can be all over the place depending on the fuel you are putting in the car. There would be no need to change the set up scale for afr everytime you switched fuels or the alcohol content changed. That's what i gathered from this video.

[@shanesanmiguel4298]

Great summary - and now I understand Lambda!

[@transam2002]

Thanks for the info.

[@GonzosGarage]

Used the Tuning School learn at home to get started and now recently just started switching over to a flex fuel system in my friends turbo LS swapped rx7 and this works everytime. Good tech tip. Thanks a ton!!!

[@ARP_king5.56]

Section 8 Automotive where can i get this course i want to get more into tuning my own car and learn how to tune others!!

[@user-kr1ue1km8x]

I am glad I found this thank you

[@morganfreeman5171]

Very clear information, thanks for the video ! :)

[@TheTuningSchool]

You're welcome!

[@stuckinmygarage6220]

Nicely done. The charts did it for me. Guy+Pictures == Good Thank you. I screen captured your table.

[@TheTuningSchool]

Why, thank you! What a way to make a tuning school feel special

[@henrymetcalf4361]

I did exactly the same thing I've always wanted to tune in lambda but no 1 here around me could explain it to me nor tell me the exact numbers when running e85 so damb guys you are awsome thank you so much

[@InClaymont]

The wideband is going to base its calculations off of gasoline afr though and to do that it uses a calcuation from lambda. So as long as you tune for the right (gasoline) afr with your wideband, it will automatically be the right afr for e85.

[@LMBC6Brian]

wrong.

[@bill2178]

lo boost thats right the big advantage to lambda is it gives you the number to correct to 1.03 lambda?multiply fuel map x1.03. done that just my pinion

[@InClaymont]

@@LMBC6Brian How so? Please explain how any of this is wrong.

[@mmejia7257]

👌🏼

[@pcmfrenzy1089]

@thetuningschool This video made me think of something. Why are you guys not training us in Lambda right away? The Wego IV wideband you guys recommend does not display in Lambda and I just purchased one from you! I think you need to make a 2020 tech tuesday on how to switch your current software setup from AFR to Lambda. I also Nominate Brett McChelland to do this video! Please lets make this happen!

[@TheTuningSchool]

In our GM Level 1 courses and classes there is a lot of information that gets thrown at a new student, most of which is their first exposure to certain concepts. However, by the time the students get involved in one of our programs, they are already integrated into reading and understanding things in AFR. We find it difficult to try and convert them early on their journey to becoming professional tuners and prefer to do so later on when we teach more Advance topics like E85 and Flex Fuel Tuning. On a side note, the Daytona sensors wideband can be set up to read in Lambda. Contact Daytona sensors directly for more information on this.

[@mushasho]

To make it even easier, Would be nice to also mention that you could also use the same targets for ethanol as you do for petrol based fuel. No need to change or alter lambda target tables when switching between them.

[@Knowledgelist]

Yeah he left that out....

[@markim5087]

Well he really didn’t it’s why he showed us the table but it would of been easier to just say if you use 1.0 no matter the fuel your always going to be correct

[@user-sl4rk5zm1j]

Lamda and Afr focus on the automotive standard of 14.72: 1 on all vehicles. The only difference. Is how efficient the fuel. Yoi just simply need to lean this stuff directly not from watching someone or the aftermath. Lamda is just a different way of looking at air fuel ratio. Actually .0 is stociometric. A positive in between 0.- 1 is lean. A negative from 0. To - 1.0 is rich. Ive noticed some scanners dont show this properly.

[@TheMoody876]

I have a inovative lc2 do I need to set the afr to 10.4 to be 1 lambda because my alcohol is 77%. Or make the afr 14.7 for 1 lambda. The sensor needs to know what the target afr is.

[@derfacecrafter1869]

Thanks Now i understand why afr is not the same as lambda. I ask in different mechanic shops, but i never understand it.

[@TheTuningSchool]

Not a problem. Thanks for watching!

[@bill2178]

learned to use lambda from greg banish its so much easier to tune in percentage

[@noampitlik2332]

Where is the conversion taking place? In the gauge or wide-band sensor.

[@SpeedDemonCBR]

I just started tuning a couple weeks ago. Trying to get my fueling dialed in but little did I know I was chasing a vacuum leak. Got that fixed so now I can really start getting it dialed in

[@fasnuf]

So what wasn't said here was how to find the EQ ratio of a Lambda value. It's easy on a calculator. Take the Lambda number you want such as .85 and put it in the calculator, then hit the inverse button (1/x). The value will be 1.1764.....or 1.18. Not all calculators have the inverse, but your phone probably does. Cheers-FasNuf Garage

[@user-cg8qx4sr6m]

I thought that AFR was just a formula converted number from Lambda. And the measuring unit must be set to understand what fuel mixture it measures. Now there are more questions))))

[@scottleggejr]

That's my understanding too but there's a lot of different gauges and boxes out there for logging so who knows. I'd like to flip my gauge to lambda but can't so I use the pro ports on HPT to get it.

[@ArcLightAddicts]

Go ahead and try running your AFR 9.7 on E85 and let me know how that works. Just tune by AFR on the gauge cause it's automatically converted in the wideband controller. Tune the same way between gas and Ethanol.

[@spencercardwell188]

My hellcats tuned at 9.7 lambda reading strict E85 and runs perfectly fine?

[@LMBC6Brian]

Um thats what its supposed to be...lol

[@LMBC6Brian]

If you are a pro tuner, you should be tuning in lambda.

[@knjpollard]

What if i am trying to target E50, because that is max my boosted C7 LT4 can support from fuel delivery perspective? I know the lambda target would still be the same but not sure what lambda is in terms of pids.

[@LMBC6Brian]

Its the WB EQ 1 set to display lambda.

[@LegendaryBeastMode]

my car is targeting 12.5 afr i have lambda sensors and full E85 is the car running too lean for ethanol? or is the tune fine, so far I've had it for almost a year or 2 like this.

[@patw52pb1]

How is the wideband set/referenced and calibrated? A 12.5 AFR is not indicating rich if the wideband is properly set/calibrated for E85. What is the actual sampled and measured percentage of Ethanol in your E85 fuel? The actual percentage of Ethanol in E85 varies significantly with each distribution truck load due to climatic/seasonal blending, temp, environmental conditions, age, storage conditions, chance and locale. In most of the US per ASTM and federal specifications the actual percentage of Ethanol can vary from approximately 51 to 88 percent and still be legally marketed and sold as E85.

[@mareksumguy1887]

LegendaryBeastMode It would help if you could actually write properly, using proper grammar... so people could understand what you're trying to say!.

[@mareksumguy1887]

If your O2 gauge is reading 12.5... and its calibrated for GASOLINE... then its actually rich. 12.5 divided by 14.7 (Gasoline stoichiometric ratio) = 0.85 lambda. E85 stoichiometric ratio is 9.7. Hence, 9.7 x 0.85 = 8.25 So if you're running E85, and your Gasoline-calibrated O2 gauge is reading 12.5:1.... that means your actual air:fuel ratio is 8.25:1

[@ashteregg2133]

when you convert to e85 you automatically know your going to be richer in afr?

[@markim5087]

Yeah but that doesn’t matter because many tuners will increase the fuel by 45-55% and still look for 11.5-11.1 and while it will run its not going to be a great tune it’s just safer to look for 1.0 on any fuel and you can never go wrong

[@fasteddy]

I do not understand the rational of all this lambda is better because it doesn't change as you flex fuel your way back and forth. If thats true!!! Then AFR doesn't change either. On a boosted engine for example if your running 11.5 AFR with 93 octane and switch to E-85 you are still running at 11.5 AFR!!! AFR OR LAMBDA NEITHER CHANGE stoiciometrically, 1.00 or 14.7 both the same !! THE ONLY THING CHANGEING IS HOW MUCH FUEL YOU ADD OR TAKE AWAY!!! Why all the scuddlebut

[@AutodromoF1]

With hondata flashpro 14.7 is equal to 1 no matter what fuel you’re using. AFR is an arbitrary number to the actual AFR.

[@msengineeringdavid3148]

That's not possible it's the O2 controller and what it's calibrated to read the tuning software can't determine that.

[@Keyno77]

04:10 "once you start thinking in lambda it does not matter what type of fuel you're using", does this mean any type of fuel available work with lamda including diesel?

[@InClaymont]

yes

[@x2xplaguex2x]

what lambda do you see the most that makes the most HP ?

[@markim5087]

Every motor is different your not looking fir a aft or Lam for power that’s just the fuel your looking for max MBT for the most power it’s why you just keep bumping up the timing till the motor stops making more torque then you back the timing time down a couple degrees and if the fuel is good your done :)

[@x2xplaguex2x]

@@markim5087 that was 2 years ago. I do this professionally now making 150k a year 🤣

[@markim5087]

@@x2xplaguex2x what’s income got to do with skill,? I’ve got a degree in mechanical engineering,I raced turned pro at 16 while turning a wrench,building race cars and oh yeah cough tuned for 30yrs son for some pretty big names ..and while 150k a yr is a decent income there’s always bigger fish in the sea ,and I’ve known guys I’ve hired who were making 200k a yr at a two bay gas stations & dealerships before I made them a better offer,someone who’s first instinct is to try to brag about income in this business before their skill and customer service says a lot..good luck in your new career..

[@x2xplaguex2x]

@@markim5087 you don't get where im at not being skilled, and im simply stating im doing well, because income does corrate to skill actually, no ones ganna fuck with a loser and spread word of mouth like I have. But glad you know your sensitive and I hurt your feelings cause you read to far into what I said and went on a rant I barely read

[@tptrsn]

Sir, I think you are mistaken about this. "AFR" from normal widebands are nothing more than lambda converted to whatever AFR scale you choose in the setup table. If you change the concentration of alcohol it makes no difference just like you're saying, but you don't have to be reading out in lambda for that to be true. Take whatever scale you're most familiar with and use it.

[@turbotoaster1984]

i was literally going to say the same thing, as people watching this video might that that they need there wideband to read 9.77 at idle and get confused. I suppose this is fine in that hes talking to tuners who understand what a wideband does but for others they may not understand what he is saying

[@JRkota318]

I took it as he was suggesting this because a lot of the new tuners don't know about having to setup a wideband for the proper fuel they're using to read the afr correctly.

[@tptrsn]

+Evil Opti Z the point is that you don't actually need to.. Especially when you're messing around with flex fuel situations or methanol injection, it just doesn't matter since you have different stoich points for the different fuels. As long as you know where you want your AFR to fall on whatever scale it is that you're comfortable with. If that is Lambda, then that's great. However, if you're more familiar/comfortable with AFR on the gasoline scale, then sticking with that works just fine.

[@JRkota318]

Hammerhaus Kennel So if a wideband is setup for gas and stoich is 14.7 and you use that wideband for E85 then your stoich will still be 9.88 (I stand corrected on the actual value)? Or will it not be right when it's setup for stoich to be 14.7 with gas?

[@tptrsn]

It's tricky to know for sure that we are talking about the same things, as this is obviously a slightly confusing topic. Basically widebands only care about stoich, and ratios of how far away from stoich the mixture is. So if we're talking about gasoline, ethanol, methanol, or any other fuel, at stoich the wideband sees Lambda 1.0. If you tell the wideband what scale you want to use, it just uses a conversion factor to readout in that scale. For the sake of discussion using your numbers, if you are running a fuel with an actual stoich point of 9.88:1, the wideband can read a perfect stoich mixture as 1.0 if you tell it "Lambda," or 14.7 if you tell it "gasoline." Even if the actual mixture is 9.88. The wideband doesn't care, since all it cares about is stoich, and what percent above or below stoich the mixture actually is, then it just translates that "Lambda" into whatever scale you tell it you want it to read out in. Lots of us just keep using the gasoline scale for all fuels, because that's what we're comfortable with, so we don't have to think about it at all. Sometimes I think I should train myself to use Lambda, but then I think, "Why bother, because it doesn't actually matter?" Hope that helps, it's all I have time to type right now!

[@oonothin]

weird flex tune but ok

[@InClaymont]

LMAO

[@HalferLandPerformance]

Widebands read lambda and convert to AFR, so just tune normally with AFR. Don’t over complicate things.

[@littleherms3285]

Fuck yea, this vid is just confusing and pointless. Widebands read in Lambda and report in what ever scale you want. Your fueling will automatically change in a flex capable computer based on alcohol content and the lambda will read the same (at .85) if your map is good and your reported AFR (fuel scale) will stay at 12.5 to 1. Doesnt matter how much or how little alcohol you have, the wideband will read in lambda and report in AFR.

[@zacharyjoeburt]

Right? 😂

[@oldblueaccord2629]

That why you vented your pistons?

[@Knowledgelist]

These guys always say this but it really doesn't matter what you use, you just need to know where to end up up. And tuning for power is just adding fuel till it stops pulling harder, so you only need any of this to calibrate the MAF and start your base line... flex fuel sounds very complicated but it's really really easy in the end... Almost too easy for the power it makes.

[@Truther00]

He said however like a girl 😂