Why Flat Rate is a Good Way to Get Paid

For full show notes, visit the blog at; goo.gl/0FQ7o5
Today on the automotive podcast, we are talking about something that I am sure will ruffle a few feathers. That is flat rate.
I highly recommend you watch the entire show before blasting me in the comments section. I understand that many have a very negative view of that system. Try and open your mind a little, and look at it from both sides.
Join me today as we discuss:
Flat rate is not ALL bad
What is flat rate (see links above)
This is NOT pro flat rate propaganda
How flat rate is good for techs
How flat rate is good for customers
How flat rate is good for the shop/dealership
Think about the high efficiency jobs
QOTD "Is performance based pay, the best pay plan?"
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[@RedneckManWV99]

Here are some reasons I've found that flat rate is bad: 1. Enables favoritism and feeding techs 2. Enables service writers and managers to starve out techs they either don't like or who don't go along with the politics of the shop 3.Creates the concept of gravy jobs that pay great and are easy (brakes, fluid flushes, etc) and ** jobs that pay next to nothing but take half the day (pretty much anything warranty, water and air leaks, etc.). 4. Encourages techs to rush through jobs and cut corners to get things done faster, which normally results in butchered car (i.e. cutting or bending a bracket out of the way instead of unbolting it) 5. Selling work vehicles don't need (calling brake pads at 5mm because "the shop is slow") 6. Discourages techs from helping each other (I don't get paid to help you) 7. Lets dealerships unload their losses and slow times on the tech (Oh business is slow, well you're just not upselling enough on the cars that do come in, or Oh you didn't diag. that car right the first time, well now you get to fix it for free) 8. Creates a cutthroat work environment (i.e. the shop favorite is getting all the gravy work and the rest of the guys get stuck with warranty jobs) 9. Undermines the value of the work techs do and makes customers think everything can be done fast and done correctly (which it can't in most cases, you can be efficient at what you do, but if your just slamming through jobs you're obviously cutting corners somewhere or not actually doing the work.) 10. If you lose your ass on a job or have a pay with low hours you are simply told you need to hustle more. 11. If you ask for a raise you are told " you want a raise, turn more hours" and it becomes about quantity over quality. Most arguments I've heard against flat rate are "Well if you pay a guy by the hour he'll just goof around and play on his phone all day and not do anything" My answer to that is talk to the employee and if things don't change, fire them. But the current solution to getting rid of a bad tech (which could just mean a tech who's just not fast enough) is to"starve them out" and make them quit, which employers like because then they don't have to pay unemployment. I think flat rate was just a way for companies to not pay techs the actual time it takes to do something and just slap a number on every job to where "this can be done in this amount of time, every time, no exceptions" and that just doesn't work in the real world. Plus when they calculate the labor times they use brand new vehicles that haven't had a change to rust and experience the abuse people put their cars through. In order for this industry to improve flat rate need to die and either hourly pay or salary plus commission need to take its place. I think that the only way you can make a good living off of flat rate is if you are feed gravy work, are not honest, or are in a shop that is literally always busy (which doesn't exist, there are always slow days and weeks. Winter anyone?) I have seen though in shops with both flat rate and hourly guys that when it's slow they'll have the hourly guy running around and doing whatever (LOFs, state inspections, install mudflaps, etc.) while there's two flat rate guys that have been standing around half the afternoon with no work. So honestly I think if they went to straight hourly they would probably expect even more work from you than if you're flat rate, because if they see you standing around and your being paid by the hour, you'll probably either get sent home or be given some shit job to do (take out trash, clean, etc.) Just another thought that crossed my mind But the whole point of this long rant is that for the industry to improve the flat rate system needs to go. It's pushing people away from becoming techs, it's driving current techs out of the field, and it's really doing a disservice to the automotive business as a whole. This whole idea of "everything needs to be done fast" needs to die along with the flat rate system. A tech's main focus going into a repair should be "How can I fix this car to the best of my ability" not "How can I rush through this job and beat the labor time"

[@TravelingCharlie]

RedneckManWV99: well said.

[@lazzjayymedia2953]

I'm in school for it now...but I'm getting an engineering degree after just in case

[@herhoezickielp.cestona7283]

Im on my first year now level 1 and working towards level 4 , after this im doing MOT tester course/certificate or engineering course , Just in case .. Im in uk . Im just hoping for the flat rate to be removed soon hopefully

[@adrielrowley]

As a customer, hate hourly as over and over get told it be one hour and eight hours later have a massive bill. Not like when my vehical is all apart can say stop and leave or not pay the full bill. Hourly know up front the charge and if don't like then can check somewhere else. If I keep using the same mechanic, know it comes out to the same, as one day there be that job that goes over. I be happy if it was hourly and had a maximum hour, in short, combining the two.

[@tedpaszko8274]

RedneckManWV99 Flat rate sucks Look at your pay when the shop is slow fuck it

[@Zonedout-ou2wl]

My issue with flat rate is when the dealership lacks the ability to provide work. My personal average productivity percentage for 2014 was 134% then 2015 146% and now this year so far 2016 I'm at 81% and spend a lot of time in the service drive waiting for work not being paid. I'm nearly $16,000 less on my gross at this time last year yet I make 5.50 more per flat rate hour than I did last year (2015). This is a ridiculous pay system. It's a scam for owners to save money because they are only paying you if your making them money. They are not loosing anything if they can't provide you work. It's absurd that automotive technicians that aren't provided adequate work to make their money to stand around with nothing to do and not be paid but be required to be at work. Tell someone that works at subway if they aren't making sandwiches they aren't being paid and see what happens or tell a cashier at a Walmart if they aren't ringing up product for customers they aren't getting paid and see how that works out. This system wouldn't work in any other industry so why is it applied to the automotive industry. Also an issue with the industry especially in dealerships is greed by the "suits". Most managers are paid off a percentage of net profits. So this stalls technician pay advancement in most cases. If a manager is paid say 10% of the net profit and say average gross is 100k for a month and after bills and techs are paid it leaves a net of 50k so that manager makes 5k and say all the techs made $10 per flat rate hour so if that manager gives the techs a raise and say now some make 20 to 25 and other in the upper teens and gross for the month is again 100k but now the techs make more so the net drops to 44k after bills are paid and techs are paid now that manager 4400 for a month so they cut their own throat. This is what stalls technician pay. I know this is a old video I'm commenting on but just feel that there are sides of the flat rate system that are kept in the shadows. Also just to point out that the industry is hurting bad for technicians. They are leaving the industry and fewer and fewer are entering the industry mostly because of the pay system, which has turned out to be a huge con to flare rate for dealerships and even independent shops but flat rate is still in their favor as far as expense goes, but you can't run an industry off a pay model that's over 30 years old when everything around you is advancing. Cars have advanced so much and the technicians have to be just as advanced or more advanced than the cars and trucks they service therefore the pay system needs to Advance as well. Believe me there are times I absolutely love flat rate but the cons from a technician side greatly out weigh the pros. Oh and flat rate kills the team aspect of a service department because the techs are fighting for every hour they can get so why would they help the other guys.

[@knighthawk3559]

Don't like it? Then leave, McDonald's are hiring. - 18 years shop owner in Detroit

[@amishdinkledork]

Technician A is a psychopath, Technician B is a scam artist. Which one do you kill? Tech A, Tech B, Both, or Neither...

[@HumbleMechanic]

HAHA, prob wouldn't kill either one. But neither would have a job

[@equilibriumfilesprostnimelo]

lol

[@jimkime2925]

Hilarious

[@Quantum369Mechanic]

Last flat rate shop I worked at was pooled. I left after a few months of that. Straight flat rate is great. Right now I'm just hourly and wish a lot of times I was flat rate.

[@mickblock]

Hi I'm technician B. Sorry for all the complications I caused.

[@JW-ku9bf]

Michael Block underrated comment 😂

[@joshbarth9469]

This is definitely my favorite comment on youtube.

[@MrFenwayfool]

Sorry but I disagree. Been burned more than once for paying for service that was never performed. Classic case: guy said I needed my rear drum brakes cleaned at the service desk. I thought I would have some fun and agreed. My car was serviced right in front of me while I waited... big glass window. So... car is ready. I inform the desk jockey I don't have drum brakes in the rear. He insists the disk brakes were still cleaned. I told him that;s stupid... and oh yeah the tech never even took the rear wheels off the car. The tech of course says "how can I clean drum brakes when the car has disk brakes?" Point is... if I had not said anything I would have been charged. That's the flat rate system at it's finest. It's called fraud.

[@MrFenwayfool]

+MrFenwayfool I do enjoy your vids BTW! Well done.

[@HumbleMechanic]

Thank you. I agree that flat rate is not a perfect system. But it almost sounds like an issue with the shop or service writer not the flat rate system.

[@amishdinkledork]

I think his overall point is that flat rate incentivises fraud repair jobs

[@andrewa2859]

HumbleMechanic as much as I agree with you on most of the pros of the system, I think flat rate and commission based systems in general do not encourage integrity in any industry!! and again in any industry the guy who spends half the day on Facebook should be fired. I've said for years "the squeaky wheel should get replaced not greased"!

[@rudeboi2310]

MrFenwayfool . Ummmm no. That’s a dishonest crooked shop.

[@danr5105]

In this case it is not "All About the Bass" but "All about the Dispatch". The dispatch process can make or break your flat-rate experience. If you are for some reason not being dispatched your fair share of "the gravy" you are going to hurt. We have this flat-rate system that by admission is "not perfect" and then we have this easily manipulated dispatch process that is clearly flawed. Humble mentions how you can stack jobs. Yes at times this is possible. Remember that most Dealerships have rules regarding when you can call of one job and get dispatched a second, this system of rules is prone to allowing cheaters to prosper. I do not agree with the idea that as soon as a guy becomes an hourly employee he becomes lazy. There are millions of very hard working hourly employees working in America. It is the immature that become goof offs because they do not have to fight the flat rate monster. Modify your hiring parameters so as to not hire goof offs. Along with the time for each job (set in many cases by the manufacture) there is a second just as important factor in the equation that determines what you end up making. That factor is your base rate. This base rate is set by the "company". Hire in at a low base rate and you can be very efficient but still suffer due to low times set for the job. Many jobs should be done at an hourly rate. Jobs like broken bolts, working with rust or accident damage working with theft or rodent damage should be paid for on an hourly basis.Jobs that start out being done by one mechanic and then get passed to a second (many object to taking on something someone else took apart, failed at reassembly and are now your problem). The mechanic should be paid if any thing disrupts the smooth flow of getting a car into the shop (like lost keys, cars not in the place where they should be, cars that are dumped at the back of the lot by a tow truck and will not start, cars that do not have tires on them or have a flat, cars where the steering will not unlock, or will not go into gear. Mechanics should be paid for all these problems that make it hard to stay even with the time assigned to the job. If you are dispatched a car that the dealer neglected to send you to school on should in some cases be worked on hourly. Any washing or cleaning of the car should carry an hourly price tag or some extra "tenths" added to the flat rate time. In some cases diagnostics should be paid for hourly. GM has a theory that any electrical fault should be able to be diagnosed in .6 (six tenths or 36 minutes) this is not fair. The idea that a tech should be able to decline taking on a job that is not being priced fairly should be discussed. Simply saying "yes I know the flat rate system is not perfect" is not enough. Steps should be taken to eliminate or reduce the number of reasons that are preventing the flat rate system from getting better or "more fair". If a Tech happens to beat the time assigned and builds up a sort of "bank" of hours, these hours are his,bought and paid for,no more questions. The management should not be allowed to say "well you made time on those other jobs so now you lose time" This is wrong as management does not have the right to manipulate what I put in the bank through my efficient work habits. Rarely do you bank time because the time assigned is so generous. You bank time because you worked hard, bought the right tools, made an effort to learn the system and did not make any mistakes..

[@cheekanuble]

Hi Humblemechanic! I don't know if you remember but I sent you an SOS a few weeks ago on your page. It took me some time to understand everything that you meant and apply it to my situation, but thanks to you, I managed to handle things at work and even though sometimes I get my butt kicked. I managed to finish last week at 123.5% productivity, finishing 3rd on 5 technicians. I only do tire changes, oil changes and small repairs such as spark plugs, stab links and occasionnaly brakes so gain time is pretty hard for me since those are not really paying jobs. But I listened and found ways to work the system that allowed me to take my time and do the job right the first time, and now I'm making 200$ bonuses Thanks a lot for your advice and most importantly acknowledging me in my state of despair, it was a real lifesaver. Alex

[@HumbleMechanic]

TheAngryFrenchCanadian DUDE!!!!!! That is freaking awesome! I am so happy you are back on the path. Great job working to make the situation better for yourself. awesome job!!! And no matter what position in the automotive world you are in, you will get your butt kicked sometimes. Cheers!!!!

[@flatratetracker417]

I agree with you 100%! Flat rate isn't perfect, but it is the best system I ever used. My last shop had an odd set up, variable flat rate. Tell me if you have heard of anything like this... Jobs were classified by skill level. Each skill level paid a different rate ($10/hr - $26/hr). There were 5 pay rates. 4 of the rates were the same across the shop and tied only to the skill level of the repair. The top rate was unique to each tech and tied directly to the technician's training and ASE certifications. It was very confusing to keep up with, but once we had it figured out it actually worked pretty well.

[@MultiDoglover55]

Thats just confusing

[@Jhavier1977]

The problem with the flat rate system is when you work at slow shops or a service advisor/shop foreman is not fair distributing the work.

[@Zackydude]

Hey Charles, I think a performance based bonus system and skill dependent salary/hourly rate is the best system out there because some guys in my dealer just spin filters all day and earn mega bonus but they are on a lower hourly rate. But the more skilled and master techs who do diagnostic work all day, that isn't as lucrative as service work, get a higher hourly rate pay. So it sort of evens out. And also group bonus systems work in this situation too, so long as everybody does what they are best at. With a good team it can work really well. One guy can be smashing out a clutch change while the other guy is struggling with a strange network fault and no one is gonna be pissed off because they are both earning the dough! :D

[@sqike001ton]

personally I prefer the hourly system itsa matter of raising the good tech hourly and keeping the crappy ones low my grandad has a small shop 8 guys 4 bays former dealership and he pays hourly every guy starts out at 14/hour and it increases every 180 days till he hits 20ish depending on how good a worker you are so as a new hire your encourage to work had for a few years to make maximum rate guys like it as u get paid hourly but still have reason to move fast and fix it right the first time

[@fixitright9709]

When you work at a shop that pays a good hourly rate + a commission you will never go back to flat@#&%, back in the day it worked, today it is a tool for the employer, i know because i am a employer, it only serves a few and the customer always loses, flat rate was actually proven to create a dangerous condition in the housing electrical fields and is illegal to be a system of pay in many if not most municipals, fact based.

[@CamaroAmx]

I used to work at a shop that paid hourly. The customer doesn’t pay how long it took. They still use the same labor times as flat rate techs use, so the customer pays that flat rate but as you said it doesn’t give the tech incentive to finish the job quickly cause he’s making the same no matter how long it takes him. Flat rate is good during busy times, but sucks on slow days (we work even when it snows) and on those diag jobs that take longer to diag then it pays (just dealt with that on a pt cruiser last week). Also the labor times have changed over the years so the same job paid more 15 years ago then It does today and my shop does a lot of warranty work (which in general pays about half what the job normally would pay) because the car brand has very long warranty period (America’s longest). My personal favorite pay rate is hourly with commission. You still get a guaranteed pay but still have that incentive to do more jobs faster. I used to work at a tire shop that paid hourly w/ commission (though the hourly pay is usually lower). I made a lousy $9/hr but I worked hard every day and if I actually divided my week pay down to the amount of hours I worked, it came out closer to $14/hr because of commission.

[@HumbleMechanic]

I think that some type of guarantee is great. Enough to pay bills, but not enough to be super comfortable. Something that will still motivate most people to work harder to make some extra money. Most people will find a state where they can live off the money they make, and do as little work as possible.

[@andreybondarenko3042]

You also have to say that flat rate system is what caused phenomena of "gravy jobs" - basically jobs that are traditionally overpriced and mechanics love doing and advisers like selling even if they are not needed. How is that doing any good for the customer?

[@mlb0611]

I think I have a very fair pay system where I work, flat rate with a 36 hr minimum so if I get my a&* whooped on another techs come back, I know I still get paid, on the other hand if I kill it and make 50-60 hours I get the extra money sweet deal

[@HumbleMechanic]

Michael Berg I like that because no one really wants to make 36 a week. You want 50+, but if times are tough you get something.

[@GixxerRider1991]

I agree. I understand guys who work at flat rate shops with no guarantee being pissed. I would be too.

[@DriveBetter]

Thanks for your videos! You're the most articulate and helpful master/senior tech I've seen. What's been your best day money-wise in the dealer? Also, as techs are moving away from the dealer system, do you see dealers changing the way they treat techs to keep them or to attract new talent? Thanks again!

[@user-pq1cj3hy3q]

On everything I love I hate dealerships. The day buying new cars get away from dealerships is when I can achieve true happiness. It’s such a bad and corrupt system there’s no going back to becoming better than it is now.

[@the_one_legendary]

I start with a new shop this Monday and I'm crossing over from heavy diesel back over to light my general cars I'll still deal with some heavy equipment and tractors going to get paid by flat rate I good but I don't know if I'm efficient enough to cross over so for general public I want to know what you all think

[@dougdrefus3554]

I live in New York. I did six brake jobs last week. One car was sitting for six years, two cars were sitting for four years, two cars were sitting for three years six months, and one car was sitting for three years two months and I still beat three hours per car.

[@fuckjewtube69]

Yeah flat rate is good on new cars. It's not fair with old rusty cars. When you're working on older cars that have probably been worked on before something always slows you down. A 15 minute brake bleed is gonna take a lot longer when the nipple inevitably snaps off due to rust. Or a wheel bearing change that should be pretty quick isn't because the hub is welding on from rust. Flat rate also encourages corner cutting, and when its slow you don't get paid. If you and the guy next to you are making $20/hour and hes a shitty worker, hes going to get fired and you will get a raise, just like any job.

[@christopheryoung9759]

Typically the aftermarket times are 30-40% more than dealer time to make up for those potential problems. Experience will help by being able to foresee those problems before they burn you.

[@ModMINI]

+Chris Young I thought aftermarket times are usually less than dealer. Maybe they charge longer "in-house book time" hours for the same job?

[@eviljagtech]

+Mod MINI The times are more but the Labor hour rate is cheaper to less overhead at the shop, plus aftermarket techs make less an hour but that is made up for, do to they don't deal with warranty issues.

[@christopheryoung9759]

+eviljagtech That's not always true. If you're a highly skilled tech you can make more per hour than the union dealer techs. I currently make 6$ an hour more than Union scale now.

[@eviljagtech]

Chris Young I think you replied to the wrong person, I didn't mention Unions, I hate unions as both my parents and brother were forced into one at one point and they hated it. Also I'm Non-Union dealer tech and hear ya loud and clear, it's the same for me on pay.

[@jessy6464]

hey Charles i got a question for you!! im gonna be doing an egr cooler delete and an intake manifold cleaning on my alh!! im gonna have to buy some allen head sockets and was wondering what you would suggest would go best between the ballhead allen vs ordinary allen and short or long? thanks for the responce and keep doing what youre doing!!

[@HumbleMechanic]

jessy6464 Simple answer YES! LOL I have all of them, They have different applications. If you buy the ball ones, get Snap on . They are the only ones that fit properly. Every other set I have had that was ball end rounded out the Allen.

[@jessy6464]

HumbleMechanic ahh nice!! Thanks for the info man!!

[@ml6322]

Off topic but will an aftermarket exhaust system void my warranty?

[@HumbleMechanic]

Matthew Lindsey It really depends. 99% of the time it should not impact your warranty at all

[@PoptartVT]

I know of a way to fix the flat rate. In New Zealand, which is where i live, commission based jobs often have two components 1) A base rate. This is usually set at, or close to, minimum wage 2) Commission. This is a set price that is given based on how many sales is done. With some tweaking, this could be a viable alternative, while still offering a good intensive to earn more.

[@mattfengler7549]

May Tag that's how we pay our guys $7.00 an hour + 12.5% parts and labor there seems to be a point where they make enough where they notice how much taxes get taken from a large sum like that they stay with in a range.

[@seanisthebomb117]

Flat rate is awesome, when there is work...Three days of only having a handful of jobs at my shop, granted car audio isn't mechanical work. I'm super excited to be going to school in a few months to become a mechanic!

[@bowlingkingpin]

Do they use flat rate in Canada?

[@thakiid1013]

i did enjoy hearing you speak on this topic though!

[@colebucket100]

I like the video . First time learning about flat rate system. My question is for return problem if job isn't completed correctly how do you prove it was techs fault. Who cleans up the work area when job is done if not cleaned could be safety issue.

[@saulsilver6310]

Do most places pay by the flat rate scale?

[@dimmn82]

I'm paid by the hour right now and hope to end up going to flat rate. I am still fairly new, 1 year of school experience and been at the shop for 2 months and have just recently graduated and went full time. I'm not fast and would like to better myself in any possible way I can. How long did it take you to get the ball rolling?

[@HumbleMechanic]

+Brian Adams It took me about 6 months on flat rate to figure it out. Then from there, I worked hard to fine tune my flat rate game.

[@dimmn82]

+HumbleMechanic I am moving faster than when I first started and since I went full time, I'm getting a lot more done. I got a transmission pulled in 1 day where it took me a few days while in school. Granted it was my first time doing it at work on a car I've never worked on. So it was a good learning experience. I just hope I can move faster and faster.

[@LastHumansGarage]

Although I don't come around as much as I used to now that I don't own a VW anymore, i enjoyed this video and discussion to the very end.

[@HumbleMechanic]

LastHumansGarage I was wondering what happen to you! Hope things are going well

[@LastHumansGarage]

HumbleMechanic ill always pop in now and again for topics that are general to mechanic interest. you are a cool guy.

[@bloodwolf2427]

I don't think warranty pays fair

[@pccchurch]

+CATLIN CARR It's criminal and they should be sued. I dont know why they haven't.

[@andreybondarenko3042]

+CATLIN CARR Because it does not. Warranty times are set to reduce manufacturer's warranty expenses not to ensure fair pay to the tech. They do three attempts to do a particular operation and clock the best one as "warranty time". Sure after doing any work three times in a row you will make and even beat warranty time. There is no need to look into manual and guess what is the best way to approach this or that bolt. By the third time there will be no seized bolts or stripped threads either. The problem is that in a real world environment if you do some job three times in a row most likely means you've done something wrong. Twice. And now you do it for free anyway, ha-ha!

[@jtech23]

I recently switched from a gm dealership working flat rate to a Indy shop which pays by the hour. The dealer I was at had been bought out by another company, so I stayed there for about a year. They implemented flat rate and guaranteed me there would be lots of work.. Well there was a steady flow of work for a few months and then it just died. I would be waiting for work for 2-3 hours a day. The service advisors/manager wouldn't pay properly, I would go ask them about ro's I hadn't gotten paid for and they would say " well, you win some and you lose some" it was about that time I said it's time to move on.. The Indy shop I'm at now is the best place I have ever worked. The Boss is awesome and has no problem paying. I can see flat rate working and being able to make money at it, but where I was there were too many factors out of my control affecting my pay cheque. As for your QOTD, I think a system of hourly pay with a production bonus would be a good system.

[@HumbleMechanic]

Jonathan Milbury Glad you found a place that you love. It seems that peoples love/hate for flat rate depends a lot on their location. Bad shop= dislike for FR...

[@randizzleforshizzle9957]

The only problem I would am worried about going into this field is the not getting paid if you're not working. Personally as longs as the employee is there I believe they should be getting paid. It's not the tech's fault if no cars roll in, and they're spending their time to be at their job. And from experience I know when I've got some down time I am cleaning my station, cleaning or resetting up my tools, or helping another tech with their job. It should be kinda like waitress pay; if they have no customers or receive little to no tips the business has to at least meet their pay to the average minimum wage and not waitress wage. They should get paid for coming and showing up.

[@z3usthegoose25]

Randizzle Forshizzle, I think the tech should be able to make there eight hours (hourly) if they day is slow while working as flat rate.

[@iceandhotwax]

Flat rate can encourage techs to take shortcuts to make more money and therefore I would never work at a flat rate shop

[@sabe909]

ya what happen's when the book's change and know all the short cut's then how is making the money...... sorry salary/ hourly.

[@rossedwardmiller]

I watched some vids and liked them, but subscribed because I see you're a beer nerd. Well done.

[@HumbleMechanic]

Ross Miller LOL Thanks for that. :)

[@radman999]

Completely agree with all your points. Flat rate increases quality and productivity when applied fairly with realistic times.

[@AT-fi9dj]

I’m just starting out as a mechanic so hopefully I will speed up as time moves forward. However, what about a slow mechanic who is methodical and takes every detail into account and doesn’t make mistakes???

[@amishdinkledork]

The guy checking his facebook page gets fired!!!!! You can set standards for continued employment, you slack off/jerk off your fired or no promotion/advancement for you. This is a very easy solution to incentivise hard working technicians

[@HumbleMechanic]

Man, I would be canned in a second. HAHAH

[@ttstang43]

i quit one ford dealership because of piss poor management skills for handing out jobs correctly... couldnt have gotten outta that one fast enough... im hourly tech now.. i love but i do wonder at times how much more i could make off the flat rate system.. as long as theirs work.. only way flat rate works

[@jessnjennplus5]

for sixteen years I've worked as a flat rate tech. The only problem I've ever had is an adviser trying to take away my hours because it didn't take me that long. I've never lost that argument though, because I just show then the Labour guide. then I ask when the job takes me longer are you going to pay me more.

[@MrErikw26]

One shop I worked at had an hourly/incentive based system. My hourly pay was $10, my incentive pay was $27.50. I liked that system better than flat rate, at least if there's no work I don't go home broke.

[@HumbleMechanic]

MrErikw26 That seems to be a great compremise where everyone wins. I like it too.

[@DJT125489]

My job is hourly plus bonus program. If you finish the month 40 hours ahead you get your hourly rate times 40 on the first check of the following month. I think that this is the best way unless you work somewhere that is always busy, and your doing work that you can make good time on. Then flat rate would be better. It's just that the only time I lose time on a job is when it's under bid or we have to do extra work that's not on the RO. Not my fault but I still take the hit.

[@PauleyDucati]

I agree it can be good in some instances but can also be bad depending on the people. I just started at flat rate in a dealership express service lane...so right off the bat you know the pay is low but I was desparate for some sort of income. The down side is already within the first week I see IMMENSE amount of shortcuts and half arsed inspections happening with my co workers and I am a perfectionist and beleive longer quality time needs to be spent fully inspecting a vehicle. When I point out a small oil leak theu say "oh well thats too small for warranty to cover it so dont put that on the inspection form" to me ANY oil leak needs attention especially if it's small before it turns into a real problem on someones super expenssive vehicle investment. I don't take tons of breaks and I'm never on my phone at work, I just like to take my time to be sure I'm doing everything correctly so because of that I'm punished with lower pay? Another issue is that I HATE HATE HATE working weekends but because most people love all the overtime they can get, the dealership made mandatory 10 hour days mon thru fri and every other saturday...life is too precious to waste working so much, you can hardly see your family and never get to go on vacations or have time to fix your own cars and houses. Now I have to keep searching for a new job, I had the wrong impression of flat rate when I accepted the job offer so I would urge anyone unsure of what it is to please please researvh it before accepting that job offer. Thanks for posting your thoughts on the topic though.

[@benjaminmota904]

that "Momma's Yella Pils" sticker... good shit.

[@HumbleMechanic]

Benjamin Mota YEAH!!!!

[@MrErikw26]

Seth: agreed. Relying on the customers ability/desire to spend money sucks. I've had a few 300 dollar checks because of it.

[@peanutbutterisfu]

I loved being paid flat rate at the dealer. You know the cars like the back of your hand so the jobs can be done a lot faster. But if you have a service writer that favors someone over you then it can hurt your pay. The dealer I worked at did favor a couple guys because they were there for many years but generally if you treat people nicely it’s not bad at all. I am not a fan of flat rate at independent shops. Many of them are not fair. If you are a really smart tech you get a lot of the headache cars while the not so smart guys get all the easy jobs that pay well this has happened to me at a bunch of shops. A few shops I had to not let anyone use my tools for reasons like I would be doing diag work that pays straight time then I have some one using my balljoint press or a timing kit for a vw or even my scan tool to do jobs that pay a lot more hours than I was making. Guys and managers would get mad at me but hey why should I make less hours when I took the time to educate myself and I spent a lot more money on tools all so I can be a better more productive tech to make more money. I am going to open a shop soon and I will be paying hourly plus bonus. I feel that in the independent world paying hourly gets rid of a lot of the drama created with how many hours everyone has for the week. Everyone can count on a steady paycheck every week. The bonus system will be an hourly raise after each tech meets a certain number in gross sales for the week. If you gross over 10k for the week you get 3 bucks more per hour. Each upsell will have a bonus. If the car comes in for an oil change and you recommend a brake job that gets sold you get $1, a coolant flush is $1, 4 tires is $1 each tire. Your not going to get rich but hey the guys have the opportunity to make a few hundred bucks extra per week and that can keep up the moral of the shop and productivity. If I am super busy during the week and have work that can be done staying later or over the weekend then the guys can come in for some overtime if they wish but I’m not going to ever make someone work late all the time and weekends. But if the guys do help out saying late once in a while then I would allow them to work on their own cars and close families cars after hours. I wouldn’t allow the guys to do any side work. The only way I would bend on side work would be if I had a very good tech that I built up a lot of trust with. I wouldn’t allow him to be doing side work every day but if I trusted him I’d let him do a side job here and there for his buddies. I was allowed to do side work at a lot of places and other employees weren’t allowed because I developed trust with the owner and had keys to the building. But from a business owner stand point I didn’t work this hard to get this far to let other people profit from me. I can give their friends a discount that’s not a problem but I’m in business to make money. Another reason why I have a bonus program set up so the guys don’t even want to do side work because I am willing to offer them ways to make more money without the need to even do the side work. I learned a lot from my current employer. He doesn’t let anyone do side work but he treats us better than most any shop in the area. He doesn’t ever make us work late, he pays us salary which is more than most Indy shops pay, not as much as you could make at a dealership but we also don’t have to work super fast all day. Last year he said I’m not giving you guys a raise but he started to pay for our healthcare instead which is about $140 per week each employee. That’s quite a bit of money but they way he looks at it is rather that give you guys a few bucks more an hour I pay your health insurance, it helps you guys out, makes you happy and you feel better about coming to work. With happy employees you work like a team and not the flat rate every man for themselves. The money he spent on our healthcare he easily gets back because we all are in a great mood every day, we don’t ever call in sick, we get the job done. With us as his team he doesn’t need to be at the shop all day he can spend more time with his family. So many shops can’t keep employees and can’t find good techs. Well at the end of the day it’s all about money. The extra 300 bucks a week you pay someone comes back 10 fold

[@chrisrodriguez8305]

I would say have some jobs / hustle because there will be days where the shop is slow and doesn't bring any action and the side work would make up for that but when it's busy... game on. Can make a killer with the flat rate system.

[@hookahspot8973]

Flat rate is good if your working for a good company, I work for a Kia dealership and it sucks, a recall for engines came out it pays 8 hours under warranty, Kia will send you a full assembled engine called short block, I can get it done in 4 hours, on the other hand I had a 2016 Kia Forte and Kia approved me to replace the engine they stopped making the same engines, so they sent me a long block it includes the block, crank, pistons, you have to disassemble the old parts and clean them so you can put them on the new block and that’s after sending the head to the machine shop, and the the head will stay in the machine shop for the next 2 days, and you have to buy the head bolts sockets that no one in the shop have that costs 80 dollars from good old snap-on, then you have to check clearance and make sure that everything is within spec and for sure parts department is going to forget to get you some of the new gaskets, anyway the whole process takes 25-30 working hours, and then Kia pays you 9.2 hours on the SOB make sense right? 9 hours for disassembling and cleaning and assembling on the other hand 8 hours to drop the sup frame and discounting the wiring harness, again FREE jobs, plus I had to buy the special socket for 80 bucks and that just about 4 hours of my pay, so I made 4 flat rate hours on a job like that. Meanwhile a buddy of mine who works for a Benz dealership gets 2.5 hours to do a PDI (Pre delivery inspection) just to make sure that everything works and driving a brand new 80K dollar Benz for 6 miles. Make sure you know where you belong if a high end dealership offers you a job take it in a heartbeat.

[@jo31b]

Flat rate encourages corner cutting. Someone dogging it on hourly will be gone. What you speak of is how it would be in an ideal situation.

[@christopheryoung9759]

Flat rate encourages productivity not cutting corners. The tech that cuts comers to make time is not a good tech! You can do most jobs perfectly and still gain time over the book time. Book time always factors in extra time for driving the vehicle, cleaning up afterwards, etc.

[@jo31b]

I don't remember anyone ever accusing most technicians of being very professional. If a guy wants to appear "more productive" and increase his/her billable hours, the overwhelming drive is to cut corners. Yes, one or two people in a shop will be a pro and do a good job. I look over the vehicles in our fleet that come back from dealerships (highway tractors, heavy equipment and automotive) and of all the shops that we contract overflow and warranty work out to, there is ONE independent shop that passes with flying colours every time and they are paid hourly. (This is not to say that all hourly shops put out quality work).

[@eviljagtech]

+Chris Young A pro tech always cut corners, if the book says take the suspension off then drop the sub frame yet you see that you can drop that sub-frame with the suspension still attached if you support it a different way, you are now cutting out about 10 steps by taking an assembly out instead of parts. One more for yea, we have a job that the book states "remove the body completely from truck" yet if you do you will never come even close to the time. But if you on bolt 6 out the 10 bolts holding the body one you can get 4" of room to do the job and maybe meet the time or at least come close. It may be different in the aftermarket were they don't have to deal with warranty work, but at the dealer level, if your not looking to rewrite the manual to benefit you, then you are going to starve.

[@RedneckManWV99]

A techs man thought going into a job should be "How can I fix this car and fix it right" not "How can I beat flat rate because this job only pays .7 to do"

[@eviljagtech]

Damn, you get paid for the multi-point, we are "expected to do it" for what ever the car/truck is in for, including a .1 bulb. Oh, and on recalls that pay well and don't take much time, if you DO tell the company the faster way and the techs find out about it you will be the loneliest person in that shop, know one will help you again. Now you tell me where the fuck they got that time from?? For Land Rover I do know the answer and it is sick, that time 3 FACTORY techs with the tools laid out on a brand new truck and the factory facility with the factory special tools all ready to go. The times for us at least are the perfect setup with someone that has inside knowledge of how the trucks are built and we are expected to at least meet this time. It is beyond bullshit and to make up the difference the labor times have to be doubled for customer pay jobs to get them close to a real time. Flat rate is there to save the Manufacturer money, if all shops were hourly then the owners could then go after the suppliers for better pay, instead of sticking it to the little guys.

[@MichaelOnYourSix]

Each has their upsides and downsides. But I still lean more towards the hourly side of things because I don't have to worry about having slow days where only 1 or 2 cars roll through for simple things. I hit the clock and if there's no cars to work on I'm still getting paid for it. But my work is still based off a flat rate time system, where it shouldn't take more than the flat rate time for me to finish the job even though I'm hourly pay. But I still think the flat rate system needs more review on the basis of those times. Most air filter jobs I do pay .1 hours, so it should take you ~6 minutes to change that air filter, and dependent on the type of fastener used to secure that airbox cover, it will likely take you all of that 6 minutes to do that. On the opposite end of the spectrum I've changed out AC roof vents that twist in, and those were paid .6 hours. So the flat rate system says it should take more than a half hour to change that AC vent, when in reality, the old vent literally screws out half a turn and the new one screws back in in under 30 seconds. Its times like that that bug be about the flat rate system. Sometimes the stuff can be thrown together quickly, and there are other times where you have to bust your ass to just break even.To each their own though.

[@kazadrix01]

you know Charles if you like colorado beer, I live in longmont where most of your box stickers come from, as a tech here the independent shop rules the road lol, come by and say high some time

[@UBBERTANKER]

what about bringing a new maint/tire tech (lube tech) in on flate rate for more per frh then me the b level tech makes (pretty much do anything that come through the door) and i have 6ase's new guy has none. My bosses excuse is that he wont flag very much, so then why is he not hourly...

[@YoungChristopher1]

I agree, flat rates are good. At our shop we make most of our money on flat rates. The easier the flat rate job, the easier it is to "stack up".

[@HumbleMechanic]

cj young When it's good, it's good. But it can go not so great too. It comes down to working hard and working in a good environment.

[@YoungChristopher1]

True. I've had it screw the pooch too. I honestly think the best combo is commission and hourly. I'd be rather mad coming to work without any pay if we are slow.

[@martinmoeller123]

Where i come from there is a specific amount of time for each job, and if you use less time the dealership gets more money, more time they get less money, you get the same amount. i think this is the best way, this way you just have to negotiate your salery according to the work you do. so a lazy tech dont get a raise the tech who does a lot of jobs good and fast gets a raise, well he will in the perfect world :)

[@HumbleMechanic]

+Martin møller That is an interesting way to do it.

[@MsKero3355]

I'm a mechanic and Paint apprentice. I think Flate rate is like commission based pay. I've worked at a wireless retailer, and I got rewarded for doing my job selling products while on top of getting a base pay of $9 an hour. Sometimes things don't go right in our world of technicians, but that only brings us more knowledge on how to deal with it efficiently the next time we see the same problem! :)

[@MsKero3355]

and get paid for it next time!*

[@sethjones5250]

I'd prefer some sort of base salary plus a incentivised commision setup. I'd like to have some assurance that I can make rent and provide for my family, but also have rewards when I really go out there and kick butt.

[@HumbleMechanic]

Seth Jones What do you think of something like $10 hourly, then $10 flat rate. So when you are turning time, you are basically getting $10?

[@michaelpatosa]

Can you make a video about how to get high Proficiency in flat rate?

[@HumbleMechanic]

+Mikey i think I've touched on it before. But a complete stand alone video is a great idea

[@nathanyoung3371]

Being a Mechanic, well not full fledged i don't have my licence, been working in my dads shop since i was 13,(don't know what i wanto do with my life) i admire you for waking on VW's audi's ets, i hate taking off those dam wheels, and jeep of course is trying it now with the new cherokees, Americans!!!

[@roberttophan9314]

How much profit do you make having your own shop?

[@HumbleMechanic]

+Robert tophan good question. Probably not as much as most people want to think.

[@roberttophan9314]

HumbleMechanic any idea where i can find out?

[@baggsRbroken]

Coming from the favorite guy in the shop...

[@dougdrefus3554]

Suppose you break a bolt when changing a exhaust manifold gasket-imagine that- who pays for the extra time to get the bolt out?

[@HumbleMechanic]

It largely depends. If it takes a few minutes then as a tech I fix it. If it is a big ordeal, calling the customer is an option.

[@dogfood2525]

I am not in the auto industry, but I would think that hourly plus bonus is the way to go. The 'why' would be that of quality concerns. Matching the mechanics times with a flat rate system would enable the owner/manager to see who is pulling their weight. Ultimately, employees who do not care get weeded out anyways. But, if you have mechanics who use air tools and have never seen or care to use a torque wrench and properly torque critical parts at their stated torque values you end up with bigger problems in the end. I have seen too many times where mechanics will not use a torque stick on putting lug nuts back on and wring those bolts at 300 ft-lbs + just because they are too lazy and want to get the job done. Or worse, leave out screws and bolts when putting covers back on because "the customer will never know" just to get the job done under time on a flat rate system. All too common. Any comments on those points would be appreciated.

[@tacticalbacon8064]

a simple negotiated guarantee + flat rated bonus being a standard would solve the tech industry IMO the main thing people need is stability knowing that at a minimum i can at least afford my basic bills even during slow times as a technician while allowing me to benefit myself and the company once i cross that guarantee threshold also it accounting to shop chores and non common paid tasks to now at least pay you for your efforts

[@pccchurch]

The prob is the criminally low Warranty Rate and Extended Warranty Rate. Rates should be standardized but they aren't by warranty. This leads to techs looking the other way when the car is under warranty. This hurts everyone in the process: customer, dealer and mftr reputation, techs reputation. Also, the fastest flat raters tend push their job quality to almost half assed quality. Sure they make their 80-100 hours/week but golly their work quality leaves much to be desired. Dealers love fast guys cuz they are all about #s and the bottom line. But they are not doing customer's cars any favors by rushing work, installing/machining parts uneven, over/under lubed, doing half a flush, making modifications to cars to avoid taking other things apart, and unnecessarily denting/damaging parts, leaving a mess for the next guy to deal with. I've seen the fastest guys work and I do not want them touching my family's cars. Of course, doing more work for less money is not something to be celebrated ... it's a race to the bottom to becoming a 3rd world nation. That's why it's hard to attract real talent to be techs. It's just not worth for those with a brain and skills. If u put all that time and effort in another profession/department like sales, you'd make 3x-4x more money without killing your body. Also, when your body breaks down as a tech, your income dive bombs. Maybe Flat Rate was good in the olden ages when techs were paid better and customers were willing to pay more but these days it's generally bad for most techs (the non-fed techs) and all customers.

[@sabe909]

warranty work well sorry call the F......... person that made this Shit and tell him to come fix it.

[@Mikeyyakson]

In norway we have a system where you get payed by the hour, and the hourly wages are really good, but what really earns you money is your bonus, you can get insane amounts of money pretty much doubling your pay check by working hard, I've had some coworkers who earned more a month then engineers out in the oil buisness by just doing services and maintenance work all day

[@geraldwayne6261]

I realize I am commenting on an old video but, I understand the flat rate system and am also grateful I never had to work flat rate! I was lucky enough to work for Company owned Tractors and trailers! Nothing wrong with flat rate but at my age now...I would starve! Started when I was 20 and did it for over 30 years! Quite a bit slower getting up off my creeper now days and flat rate would kill me!

[@HumbleMechanic]

Yea you really have to be able to love fast and think fast to make money

[@Motisagamevids]

I come from the Heavy Diesel truck world and ,from a management point of view, flat rate is great! It is a great way to reward your great techs and make them more money. any time my guys make more money it, it always helps the store. I want all of my guys making 80k to 100k + per year. It provides great security for their family and gets me techs knocking on my door to come work for us. The golden rule of a successful business, is the more your help you people succeed, the more successful you r business will be.

[@rubencruz2486]

Nailed it.

[@JCpNK]

If flate rate was so great you'd still be doing it correct? I went from 60 a week average to 30 because work dried up and what we had was warranty. Now I have great benefits and get a good paycheck no matter what. I'll never go back. Good luck on your new venture btw

[@z3usthegoose25]

I just switched from hourly to flat rate today. I like hourly because I know I'm making slow but steady money by end of the day. Flat rate has its ups and downs I see. You can make more in a shorter time frame but if the day is slow your not making little to nothing. And the hourly guy well he goes home on a slow day. Haha! One thing though I'm confused about when you take lunch as a flat rate guy? Are you required to take a lunch by law?

[@HumbleMechanic]

I think the lunch thing might be state to state. I spent plenty of days not taking a lunch.

[@jessnjennplus5]

after my very first year as a tech, which was at $10/hr flat rate, I asked for a raise. my svc mngr showed me how to give my self a raise through a good quality inspection. I found I made a lot more money and turned out cars that didn't have to come back a month later with something else wrong. win, win, win. I agree, it's not perfect and gets abused by some, but that would be true of any system put in place.

[@Zonedout-ou2wl]

Jesse Williams That's the issue with the system. You had to give yourself a raise lol think about this day that shop rate is $100 am hour and your at $10 an hour so you do 90% of the labor involved with that vehicle and the other 10% is the service writer writing up and checking in the vehicle and dispatching the work and who ever flags you closing the repair order. Yet of that $100 an hour rate you only get 10% even though you do 90% of the labor involved. And the manager saying give your self a raise shows how uninvested they are in technicians but only want you to do more and sell more, more, more but don't want to give anything in return.

[@jeremyhanna3852]

I total agree with you on flat rate system its makes us hustle and do the job right but there was 1 b.s. case in my life the 6 liter diesel Ford's that came out in 03 they were junk built by a European company I got very little training on them and then we started to see the problem roll in 1 major problem was the plastic fuel pump no matter how right I fixed it they would come back was told it was my fault and I would b eating the labor this happen like 5x in 3 months anyways that engine under went 489 revisions in 3yrs ish they finally got them fixed but i those first 18 months of that motor was hell don't get me started on that e series diesel van that vehicle well tell you if your right with god cause your going to b asking for his help twice a hour

[@sukhwang4554]

My opinion; Flat rate works in dealership, or one brand specialist. No matter what, techs will get faster and faster as they experience. Allows tech not to do chores(shop cleaning and stuff). Allows tech to be thorough if they want. Importantly, busy season cranking 60hrs a week, 16 hour is overtimed, which comes handy when slow season hits. Tire month 60 hours a week x 4week here comes 16h x 4 = 64hours over overtime. Slow season, just spending money from that overtimed season + warranty works im still happy.

[@1386922014107]

I love flat rate and I'm the biggest hack there is. I bend and break so much shit under the hood. I always have left over brackets and bolts. Especially on VWs. I have a VW in my bay now and I guarantee it will never be the same when I'm done with it

[@jimkime2925]

That’s some good BS sales pitch. Shop time should be exactly what time is spent on a vehicle and the book should be used for estimating not the end result. Flex plate on my Ford F-150 was go in g to take 2 days 10-12 hours to change out and we did in in 4 hours at home. Had a knocking in my lifters (so I thought) shop took my head covers off to tell me “need lifters changed out” out comes the F-ing book, 2 hours time couple hundred bux nothing fixed. It’s a hustle that should be outlawed.

[@HumbleMechanic]

So time spent on vehicle. What’s stopping someone from just dragging g feet and charging double what “they should”. If a tech spend $500 on a tool to do a job faster should they be punished by making less money? Like all systems there are ways to cheat.

[@tuga2112]

good points, however it feels like you been spoiled with dealership jobs too much. Im not a professional mechanic, however been swinging wenches for 2 years in project cars that are over 20 years of age with various problems. as a consumer i LOOOVE flat rate. so i know there are no surprise bills, I can easily see why a mechanic would find flat rate unfair. The amount of time that a single bolt seized has taken me to remove would have easily brought a flat rate mechanic to hate both myself and my cars if they got those jobs. There is also diagnostics. I currently have an ABS light on, I have spent quite a few hours trying to diagnose it so far, and as smartly as possible (stripping interior for a welding job, while waiting for the weld doing the checks on the wires and others of the kind.) and still havent got to the bottom of it. I think its potentially best to mix a bit of the 2 systems. where there is a flat rate which would be the "estimate" and a "maximum quote value" being based on the flat rate plus some extra weight (maybe extra 10%?) I would be happy with a mechanic working on my car at hourly rate, as long as i could work alongside him, in order to be sure he is not slacking, as well as do whatever odd bits in paralell to speed up the process, and, i would learn something as well. But i haven't meet any place that would look keen on that, including places that try to avoid my cars...

[@justinhudson1547]

Ok, since everyone is bashing flat rate I’m gonna tell y’all how the VW dealership I worked at does things. 1.) Each technician gets paid (x) amount of money per hour turned on flat rate. 2.) The shop has a foreman who gets a salary pay to help everyone when they need help, plus he gets a percentage of the hours turned by the shop every month. (This eliminates favoritism due to the fact that he makes more if everyone is working and it eliminates the “lazy” technicians because he stays on them to turn more hours and make him more money) The foreman gets all the RO’s and makes sure they go to the next available technician. Shop foreman also goes on all test drives with the customer unless he’s gone on one already and one needs test driven with the customer while he’s gone. Then the service manager goes( at the time was running 3 shops). The technician rarely has to unless he chooses. 3.) As far as “riding the gravy train”, our shop IS NOT specialized, so everyone does everything. (40k services go to the technician who either just had a “horrible” job or has the least hours. 4.) At the f the week/most of the week if someone has any down time they help the person who is struggling or has the least hours in the shop. 5.) In addition to #4 it doesn’t help you any by being a (***) to anyone because they might be the one that can help you when you need it. 6.) Everybody borrows everybody’s tools...so if say someone loses someone’s tool (especially if it’s something a lot of people use), they get flack from everyone. On that note the shop foreman has everybody’s spare key to their toolbox. (Incase somebody isn’t there for some reason and somebody needs something.(shop foreman is responsible for everything borrowed out of your box while you’re gone. However, for the most part everybody has everything they need themselves. 7.) Everybody’s responsible for cleaning their own bay(s) every day unless they have a big job like a engine or something torn apart. 8.) The hourly/new guy is responsible for helping anyone with anything anytime, and keeping the shop clean throughout the day. 9.) Everyone gave their scrap metal to me...in return I bought them lunch or brought ribs or something from home I had smoked the night b4. Also my brother worked at another dealership close to the scrap place and I got him to drive my truck to work and take it to the scrap yard. In return he got to buy himself lunch out of the money made and obviously he didn’t have to burn his gas that day. My only stipulations were to fill the tank on the truck and obviously give me the rest of the money. 10.) Six and a half years ago I was on my way to work and I was struck in my drivers door by a truck going 60mph, which I was instantly knocked in a coma. For a few weeks the rest of the technicians all chipped in to continue to give me a normal paycheck, because I have a 18mo old and a pregnant wife. These are just things that came to mind as I read everybody’s comments: I’ll probably add more as we go. So, in short DON’T BE AN *** TO EVERYONE, HELP EVERYONE because it might be you or your family that needs help!

[@10mmgold67]

Salaries, techs should get paid a salary based on how much money they make the dealer. Also raises if your productivity gets better and performance reviews. If you fall off on your productivity you may get a salary decrease. This would take care of the slow times. Just an idea.

[@mischief007]

From a different perspective in a dealership, I think some mechanics deserve flat rate as they know the jobs, do them well, and consistently pull in great hours. The new ones need to find out what flat rate is all about. We've had one mechanic tell us that a mirror housing is .6 to replace for warranty (rust). He couldn't get the cap off in .6 and kicked the car out. My appointment coordinator saw the car without a cap outside, notified the service manager and we had to get another mechanic on the job to fix the screw up. Imagine a customer coming in to pick the vehicle up? Anyways the point is, there needs to be a mix of either a flat rate/bonus system or better hourly pay plus incentive. On top of it all. Performance based hourly figures. If you are a $30 an hour mechanic, you deserve that. If you can't tell your butt from your hole, you deserve a lot less. Even if a dealership raises their rates (ours did) the good mechanics should have their hourly wage go up by the same percentage rate. Saying that, we always have to fight our owner for wages even though he lives well above proper living and keeps buying dealerships that are in the gutter....

[@Warrior2200]

Get an hourly fleet mechanic job. No customers, no politics. I would never work at a dealer or for outside customers. Try to gt in a Union. We have hourly pay and overtime after 8 hours per day worked, not after you have 40 in. Health, dental and a real pension. As far as lazy people, where I work they are immediately "pushed" out of the way. We take pride in our team and shun the worthless slobs. There is just too much to do and work needs to be distributed equally so one guy isn't getting overworked. It could take some time with new guys building a solid crew but once you do it's all downhill from there. Work hard, get fair pay, don't settle and demand to be treated well. There aren't many people coming in to replace us. The worst thing to do is settle...its your 1/3 to 1/2 of your day, your body, your $$$ in tools..etc.

[@mtberguy]

I think performance based pay is the way to go, but the whole flat rate system needs to be overhauled. I work in independent shops, not dealerships. Why can't shops pay techs with a base salary plus commission like they service writers? I've had salary jobs in independent shops. It's a love/hate relationship. Love the pay when it's slow, hate knowing I could make more on flat rate when we were busy. With the flat rate system, it's flawed against the ones who actually produce the product, spend the money for tools, and take the personal time to learn the craft. Also it hurts the new techs who need tools, but don't have the knowledge to earn a decent living. As I have seen it multiple times, shops get busy, hire more techs, every tech takes a pay cut bc not enough work for everyone, and then good techs leave when another shop offers more money or work and the cycle starts over again. While this is happening, the owner and service writers are making more money, not the techs.

[@brianp5579]

Flat rate is bad for customers cause they get a inflated repair bill because the tech has to make up lost hours of a broken system(flat rate). Also the quality of the repair suffers. Another issue is a customer brings car in for a noise or drive ability concern ends up leaving the shop with bunch of maintenance work done but tech does not fix original concern, I have seen that many times.

[@steniofernandez824]

i work by the hour and get pay 5% of labor...so is not flat rate..and i make 15,000 a month, gm told me on meeting...i dont think i get that much back,is only $750 back,so therefore get pay by hour is an advantage..

[@giantgeoff]

I am not in your industry, I thought I wanted to be, right out of High School but I was over ruled and in my senior year was immediately enrolled in my local community college's engineering program. I did get my degree and the oil and mining industries were slammed I went into residential construction. Same sort of issues there. Do a bid job, hustle your ass, and people think they're getting ripped off. I did have the great good fortune to work for an a master craftsman who strictly worked on an hourly basis, On jobs nobody else could, or would do. Like true master in any profession he made a lot of it look easy, and people thought they were getting ripped off. I would sometimes have to point out our investment in vehicle, and tools, and the time it took to gain the knowledge, and the fact that a lot of work was done outside sometimes in inclement weather, and there was a great deal of physical danger, of death or permanent injury, that they did not choose to perform themselves. Oh yes my wife owns a 2003 Passat with the 1.8 Turbo, and I was thrilled to pay the dealership the flat rate, for the timing belt replacement because I sure as heck wasn't going to be able to do it in that time allotted. An in the vein of true professionalism, even though I knew that one should replace the water pump at this point, they suggested it before I needed to request it, even though it might have earned them a second equally expensive service in the near future.

[@ModMINI]

+giantgeoff This is an excellent point. It is hard to get paid for what a job is worth if people don't understand the rarity of some of these skills. It's kind of like people who get paid to give speeches. They make it look easy too!

[@DKLGalactus5]

here comes the second comment, I have noticed that no one knows how much any one is getting paid, on flat rate, but we all do the same job, when we were hourly we were getting $19.00 an hour to start and I mean a apprentice, every six months he would get a raise, and they would pay for all the certification and schools, he top out at $29.85 with full benefits for the technician and his family oh yes I forgot the$315 a mouth into my pension part, I tell you my old job before 2008 the owners were jumping for joy with the money we were making them, they had no problem taking care of there technicians but the owner passed much respect for him and his family. by the way i see a lot of beer stickers on your tool box, really, is that what a professional technician tool box looks like these days,. humble mechanic who is paying you to make me think flat rate is better. don't sell me hamburger and tell me its really steak.

[@HumbleMechanic]

HAHA, I missed the part about the stickers. The number of stickers on my box has nothing to do with "being a professional technician". This is a box that lives in my garage. It is a box I traded for.

[@jeremycopeland5003]

I think flat rate is ok if the dealership has a good amount of business and you get a garentee for those weeks when you only flag 15 hrs due to time of year

[@Juice-jx1pr]

Question of the day can the customer choose the mechanic to work on a car?

[@HumbleMechanic]

Yes in most shops. If not find somewhere else

[@ciscocarrion]

I don't see any other way for us to get paid other than flat rate. The problem is there's to many lazy techs. I like flat rate. I've been a tech for a little over three years now before I was a Journeyman Electrician. I make more money now than I ever did as an electrician thanks to the flat rate system. I hustle hard every day and regularly am first or second in most hours per pay period and without scamming customers or cheating warranty.

[@sabe909]

Gravy train here........

[@SkyPuncherFarms]

Thumbs up on the Gin and Tonic in the spring

[@HumbleMechanic]

+SkyPuncher haha thanks.

[@SkyPuncherFarms]

Just discovered your channel and have a lot of catching up to do.

[@TheBladderman]

Being an entry tech (about 1 year flat rate, 2 years dealer experience) performance based pay seems to expose the work ethic of technicians. As stated, lazy techs make crap, and when harder techs bust ass there is no jealousy towards the fools who don't hustle. However, my issue with flat rate is the dealer itself. Every dealer distributes work differently, and Between the two dealers I have been at there is always favoritism. While I do not think flat rate is 100% (and labor rates themselves for warranty repairs can be farfetched), I think that the actual distribution of work fairly seems to be a big issue at the dealers Ive been at.

[@tiberianexcalibur]

I think that dealership techs should get paid a salary by the manufacturer themselves whenever they are employed at the dealership level. Any non-warranty jobs that customer pays, the funds goes toward the manufacturer to keep per book time hours. The number of techs employed depends on the budget and flow of traffic the dealership brings in. Now in reality, car makers would never let that happen because of $.

[@HumbleMechanic]

Tesla is a version of that. But That has it's cons too. They work their people like made.

[@iplaybadgames317]

i believe flat rate is the best system overall. most techs don't cut corners(at least where i work) we don't try and sell things you don't need. anything i try and sell (air filters, cabin filter, tune up, brakes etc) everything I can show the customer (maybe not tune up that we go by mileage) now there are downside, such work being slow it happens. but what I find to be a negative on hourly system (yes there's a place for it to we have both at my shop) lets say the tech takes 3 days to do rear drums a few feet of brake lines and 2 lower ball joints, there's an issue and he shouldn't be paid for the 3 days it took him (he also broke 2 wheel speed sensors from what i heard) if he was paid hourly he would made 18 hours for that work? I see both negative and positives but its one of those things there isn't a correct answer. the hourly at my shop also do some bigger work if all the flat rates are busy (brakes mostly our hourly's don't have many certs) they are also the ones to do air pressure checks and things, sweep the shop. another things is our shop doesn't force people to be a flat rate or hourly, i started as an hourly and as I became more knowledgeable and faster I asked to become a flat rate, almost every week i break even or higher than how long im there a week. I also live in Michigan, lots of rust. there's ways around that, many tricks that you can learn to get around snapping bolts and things. so flat rate is a good system for a good tech, not one that skips corners or plays on their phone. but I feel flat rates and hourly's belong in the same shop where someone who works well can make more time, while someone who isn't ready for the system can still learn.

[@iplaybadgames317]

oh i should mention, we grab jobs from a board from the order of the customer we don't get handed board unless theres only one person qualified to do it (trans, driveline electrical etc) lets say theres 2 people allowed to do it, whoever gets the board first gets the job.

[@jackmendez8579]

Been helping the 15A guys and Flat rate seems to be bad, if they finish before the time they just have the car sit there in there stall to run the clock to the given time. cars wait when they coulda been sent back earlier

[@walkerwma]

I think it has it's ups and downs but I tend to feel like it screws the technician especially new ones in the field. I know some shops will guaranty their techs a minimum amount of hours ,say 30hrs for example in a 50 hr week so that when they get that shit Job that screws them it only ruins their week so much.i think the flat rate system can be tough to learn how to manage and it only tends to work out really good for your top techs that are getting fed all day long

[@dougdrefus3554]

Suppose you break a bolt and the customer says you quoted me a price and I don't have any more money-who takes the loss? Who eats the job? I like Firestone- they have posted we use flat rate AND OR actual time to do the job.

[@orchestracelloplayer]

Firestone is a great company. I really enjoy working for them. I've heard dealership pay more an hour on average but Firestone is just a great place to work I may just stay for the long haul.

[@ttstang43]

well thats why like at the ford dealers when doing 5.4 exhaust manifolds or the 2 piece spark plugs.. if it breaks.. its either .5 or an hour more for each that breaks.. thats specified before the customer gives the ok.

[@sabe909]

ooooooo ok give this guy a rusted car to work on............

[@atoyo19]

flat not good for special in small job but can be almost fair in big jobs like engine or transmission overhaul

[@HumbleMechanic]

I actually feel the opposite. I find that it's easier to make time on small jobs like replacing light bulbs. Labor times for engine overhaul tend to be lower in relation. But that may be a European car manufacturer thing.

[@atoyo19]

maybe im talking about Toyota dealer in suadi cause im working there also I like your motivation speech

[@richiewitkowski7142]

how about warranty situations everything is warranty now a days so when you constantly get warranty for busting your ass and not getting shit for it? Just make everyone hourly the majority of jobs is hourly it makes people more happier

[@HumbleMechanic]

The warranty thing depends on the brand. VW actually paid okay on most warranty jobs. I don't think switching to hourly is the magic wand everyone wants to think. I Think it needs to be a hybrid approach. Something that is fair for everyone.

[@johndusak8147]

Flat rate story mechanic did head gasket on 3.1L different head gaskets come with push rod guides that get in the way the the power plant ran but not well that mechanic got a two week paycheck of about 200 dollars good luck.

[@TheJdmkid19]

Flat rate is only good if the dealership is busy...my former Auto instructor quit a vw dealer in his hometown (that I believe got bought by another company) because he was sitting on his ass cuz it was soooooo dead...they fired and switched up management and marketing teams numerous times in the ten years he was there ...it started off good for him then every year got less and less busy to the point some techs started quitting one by one ...so you can make great money on the flat rate system...only if the dealership is busy!!!!! Flat rate also creates a lot of hacks and causes good techs to cut corners just to make their times ...but great techs who double check and sell work and learn the brand there working on really well can really make BANK on flat rate...