Why have the White Walkers returned after 8,000 Years? | Game of Thrones Season 8 Theory Talk

[@samanthaa.6055]

I totally agree about the Starks not being great people historically. All we see of the house are what Ned made it into, but even Ned remarks about how peculiar he was compared to his siblings. The Wolf's Blood, which ran strong in Brandon and Lyanna, has probably caused a lot of destruction in generations past.

[@davidcousineau2398]

While im not a book reader I always had the the feeling that after the Wall was built after the Long Night a Stark broke their word on a treaty possibly not keeping humans south of the wall.

[@williamwhitfield6225]

Ehhh there are definitely untold secrets in the starks past. They have a very strong connection to the children as well as the others. If the children created the others than the knights king (stark) by nans story. Also it was said Brandon the breaker and the king beyond the wall overthrew the knights king and Brandon struck his name from history and forbid it to be spoken. As for present day house stark that's neds fathers fault he basically started the starks getting involved is southern affairs. He sent ned as a ward of jon arron in the veil that's where he and Robert became friends. Was going to marry Brandon to cat from the river lands and Robert to lyanna and this is where house starks misery begins. Ned continues by foolishly leaving winterfell to ride south gets his head chopped off. Sends the north into war with his young son who's 17 at the time leading the pack. And all of this made the north and stark house weak and the Bolton's and others start scheming like those in the south.

[@williamwhitfield6225]

@@davidcousineau2398 the thing with the wall never made sense. So after the first long night the children and bran the builder along with help from the giants built the wall. And none of them realised they where on the wrong side of it? After just suffering one of the worst winters ever and fighting for the dawn they decide to stick on the wrong side? And no one in game of thrones got or gets power without blood and force so that's a given on the starks. And as far as all the revelations on the knight king survey says we got nothing zero zilch!

[@shannond7437]

Yeah but Brandon and Lyanna were setups. LF likely gave the “taken” story to Brandon setting him up to die. And we don’t know Lyanna and Rhaegar’s true story, just the rumored version. But every house has a terrible past.

[@jay-mk4yt]

@@williamwhitfield6225 i love that question. why help with the wall only to be left on the shitty side?

[@wjhall307]

The Prince that was promised is ice and fie. Stark and Targaryen. The NIghts King was created with obsidian , frozen fire, iced fire. Maybe the Nights King was not just a Stark but a Targaryen as well. Maybe during the Age of Heroes, the precursors of House Stark and Targaryen started the song of ice and fire. Maybe the reason the Houses were placed on different continents and Starks and Targaryens did not marry is because if they did the Night King would come looking for his heir. Maybe the Nights King had to stay in the Lands of Always Winter until a new Nights King was born. He could then come south claim his successor and complete his song.

[@kittykatt7652]

If its Jon they want it seems they would come for him as an infant Why now?

[@musspuss]

@@kittykatt7652 because the night king was building his army still, plus he needed Jon as an adult. No point in having a baby Jon snow as the new night king LoL

[@Nwakilla187]

The Prince that was promised is more then one person. The Prince that was promised = Bran Stark, Jaime Lannister and Jon (Aegon Targaryen). They all three were the prince to become the King but they didn't so it's not one person that was promised. That's true the Night King is both an Stark and an Targaryen.

[@musspuss]

@@Nwakilla187 LoL, you're a funny guy

[@SophiaR-xp4rk]

He startet marching south before Jon and Dany even met, and the new heir is not born yet. Do you think NK is a greenseer and knows what will happen? Would be the only explanation for your theory.

[@LRonBrundlefly]

"There must always be a Stark in Winterfell" is the verbal, mythical remnants of some kind of magical seal, holding the Night's King's wife in the deepest depths of the Winterfell Crypts, and keeping her King at bay. When Winterfell fell, the Night's King was able to sense his wife again, and started south. This just a guess.

[@ryandeen312]

I have thought pretty much this for a while now..

[@plinkplank5451]

Remember Bran is the summer child. The summer only began to end when he was born, hence the NK only started south bringing the cold, once Bran was born.

[@wdinns]

the stark's have forgotten the meaning of the words, and broken the contract, There must always be a Stark in Winterfell, as per the agreement that the night Queen would be imprisoned under the Crypts by the hot springs to cut down/contain her power, and when there is no Stark's there the NK can come and reclaim her

[@roxyndra]

Oh crap, they're coming for Sansa.

[@mcdaviddeservesbetter8]

That’s a solid theory.

[@brandondavis7777]

Jon is his replacement. Just like before when The Builder first beat The Bloody Blade(the nk) and replaced him. A Stark must hold both the NK and King of Winter positions for balance

[@tomoni3094]

Brandon Davis but jons not a legitimate stark

[@stxdude830]

Lol then he isn’t a legitimate targaryean, so what would he ‘legitimately’ be?

[@houseblackstark491]

According to GRRM, Jon is a fire wight so it may be the combination of Stark and Targ blood. Danerys, is also half Blackwood which would make her the same as Jon; in the eyes of the NK. Is it possible he wants their offspring? Perhaps their kids can control night and day/summer and winter if the NK can change them.

[@kentuckydaisy5578]

House Blackstark is danny one 2 because she was in the fire in the books to hatch the eggs and came back.

[@runecrafter1198]

Just want to say thank you for getting us through the long night

[@mindy8111]

If old Nan is right about all. What do you think about when she tells Bran dont listen to crows they lie.

[@KeisingMing]

Amanda Nely the nights watch are liars then and the story about the night’s king and his bride isn’t as they say

[@mindy8111]

@@KeisingMing i was talking about when Bran tells her about the crow in his dream.

[@danfrank6666]

Amanda Nely lol dang

[@thorstenwestheiderphotogra7722]

The three eyed raven lied to Bran about the ink being dry.

[@merizink]

I would love to know this as well. I think she tells the audience that there is WAY more to this story than just crows and were woods, and first men. I think there were a people who remained objective and Nan is a descendant or maybe Nan was just cranky and questions records appropriately.

[@gettingtoastedatq]

I’ve always wondered something. In the Bran/Blood Raven scene where they fly far north, Bran sees something “terrible” and his tears burned his face. The crow tells him now he sees why Bran is so important essentially. I always got the feeling there is something worse up in the lands of always winter. Is it possible the Night King needs Jon or Dany because the Night King is actually not the big bad guy? There is something worse up there and the Night King is actually fighting it or keeping it at bay? Edit: Also, the scene in Dragonstone where there are 3 white walker looking guys and one has a facial hair. Where is that guy? I just feel there are hints of something worse or different.

[@gogozeppeli9267]

Thats in the books though...and i dont remember this happening in the show! ...

[@GrayArea]

Yeah his coma dream! It’s a very symbolic dream. I’ve been working on it since the beginning of my dream series but it’s so big and symbolic it’s taken me a while to get it finished. I think he saw the Great Other...it’s described as the place we see the Night King turn Craster’s baby in Season 4

[@shannontuck5636]

@@GrayArea omg Gray please read my comment totally love you and your videos and wrote a crazy long comment before I started watching because as you may remember I've had some theories going on about NK and as I explained thought I'd do a prediction comment of a GreyArea prediction vid just for fun lol anyway love your work girl :) oh and ps NK is half Pre-Stark half Pre-Targeryon and that's why he waited all this time for Jon who is like him. GOT confirmed to me a while back that NK most likely has Targ blood ;)

[@landendelormier7954]

the white walker Jon kills at hardhome has facial hair

[@shannontuck5636]

The pictures on the cave walls might be NK predecessors?

[@thevgirl5428]

Agree with Gray. I think what the north has forgotten is the meaning behind the Stark words. Winter is coming for the Prince who was promised. Maybe they thought that since Aegon the Conqueror had basically stopped all kingships except the Targaryen's, there would be no more princes in the Stark line, but since Jon is actually a Targaryen prince, and the night king has to be a green seer he knew that Jon is the prince who was promised. What the plan is for Jon is a mystery

[@premiumturkish]

The VGirl So there must always be a Stark at Winterfell as he was promised.

[@thevgirl5428]

@@premiumturkish Exactly.

[@orsolyapamer3481]

I think, he might be the new NK. His body as a Stark-Targaryen hybrid, may be able to being convert to the new NK body. Maybe the present NK just wants to end his burdain and give it to Jon. OR: Jon really has to defeat him, but will he able to do that only by becoming the second NK. OR: The Children screwed the ritual the first time, because the man had only Stark blood, and not Targ blood, and the ritual will work perfectly only by a half Targ-half Stark. The Children screwed the ritual the first time, ended up creating a mass destructive monster (=NK), but if that ritual works right (in Jon's case), it might be created an undying king of Life? or something like that.

[@Nwakilla187]

There are many character with "prince that was promised". Jon, Bran, Jaime, Theon, Gendry all these where promised to become King someday.

[@thorstenwestheiderphotogra7722]

"Winter is coming" is synonymous with "The Night's King is coming." If the NK is a Stark, then who will succeed him? Another Stark, of course. And what's that person called that will succeed a king while the latter is still "alive"? A prince. House Stark promised this prince to the NK, but then they betrayed him by building a wall, which the NK couldn't cross. With the King of Winter (= the NK) safely tucked away they have enjoyed an unsually long summer, but the NK has managed to breach the wall and now winter is coming to take by force what is his.

[@anzoo78]

What if the reason The Others have not killed Jon and Denaerys yet is because they want their unborn child for the ultimate sacrifice? Perhaps the Night King is able to ride dragons because he has Targaryen blood!

[@GullibleTarget]

Ooooh! Nice! Do you think the might be waiting for Jon and Dany to bump uglies and have a baby. And that baby to become the next Night King? Or Queen? Stark and Targ. Ice and Fire

[@Ts0usermax]

Maybe he is a Targaryen but you say the Others have not killed Jon and Denaerys yet because they want their unborn child, lets say they dont want the child and actually DO want to kill Jon and Dany, when would they have done this or even had the chance to kill Jon and Dany? you mean when Daenarys comes to rescue Jon on her Dragon and the Night King spears one dragon and then tries to kill the one she is on?!? because it looked a lot to me like the Night King was actually trying to kill her or at least kill her dragons, without those dragons they all are minced meat, then she gets away and if not for Benjin i think they would have got Jon Snow and he would be dead. seems once the night king killed that dragon knowing he would be able to turn it he did in fact try to kill Dany and Jon.

[@Ts0usermax]

​@Billy The only thing the Night King cares about is getting a Dragon and taking out the wall, the prince that was promised is the dragon, she is a Dragon Queen, what does that make her Children if they are males? for 8000 years since they killed his mother and father the Night's King and Queen, he has waited, for Jon and Dany to bring Dragons so he could get one and destroy the wall.

[@NessaGurll]

Jacaerys velaryon and Cregan stark had a pact where the north supports Rhaenyra and they'll get a targaryen princess to wed... But no princess ever married a stark. Rhaegar and lyanna was close... But not exactly the pact.

[@jacobenke7936]

was it written in Valyrian?

[@jojoladydayne7311]

Jon is getting blue eyes by the end - 100% . Bran will tell him he has to do it and he will go willingly - just like Todrick probably did. Love you guys. Just gotta figure out how the story of the 13th LC fits around this.

[@PapaEmeritus_4evr]

100% huh?

[@trinithetribalqueen1376]

I’m convinced and I accept that I may be wrong but I think the NK wants Bran, when ever he has had the opportunity to pursue Jon he hasn’t but at the first opportunity to touch Bran and then pursue him he did and technically he has not stopped pursuing Bran, because he is heading to Winterfell.

[@stevestone377]

Tabita D Placide I think the same either bran or John or maybe both but the nk knows bran is the only man with the knowledge to stop him thru the bloodraven but I have a mad theory that bran is the nk it’s just a feeling tho but we,ll find out soon enuff 👍

[@Ts0usermax]

he doesn't persue Jon? he does surround Jon and Co. with his entire army of dead dudes.

[@trinithetribalqueen1376]

Ts0usermax They surrounded them and he sat on his horse and watched him for hours do you really think considering wherever he walks turns to ice he could not have walked across the lake if you wanted to and gotten to Jon? Clearly the only reason he didn’t is because he did not want to just like at Hardhomme if he wanted to reach to Jon to fight he could have really quickly.

[@Ts0usermax]

​@@trinithetribalqueen1376 when the Night King enters 3 eyed ravens tree cave with white walkers who attacks Meera and Bran? it is not the Night King, it is one of the white walkers that entered with the Night King. why? The night king is not pursuing Bran, he is there to kill 3 eyed raven. same reason he doesn't charge down the tunnel and smash the door hodor is holding and chase Bran and Meera and kill them. He doesn't pursue anyone, the Army pursues the individual and the Night King takes care of other business, killing 3 eyed raven, spearing a dragon, raising dead wildlings. sorry to ruin your theory.

[@trinithetribalqueen1376]

Ts0usermax Until you become George R Martin sweetie you have not killed anything for me that’s just what you think until the show ends and we get an exclamation what you think means zero to me LMP so I don’t know who you’re apologizing to this is KZbin I don’t even know you dude like get a life 🤣🤣🤣🤣

[@michaellewis8431]

If you look at the Night King Sigil carefully it resembles Westros from north to south with a line that appears to be the wall. The line on the Sigil is carefully placed about 3/4 of the way up. Just like the map of Westros. I found it too be interesting.

[@eliflihi]

Great vid as always. Glad your back more regularly lately. Still don’t think you’ll finish that revisited series but you’re vids gives me life at work.

[@AndrewK23777]

Thoroughly enjoyed these two parts about the Others. Interesting unique take from Joe on the prologue in the first part , i hadn't heard that before and i agree with most of it. I agree that it seemed to show the Others still have some memory of who took them down the first time and a fear of a potential Last Hero 2.0 . Which is why they were wary of Waymar Royce ,thinking he was a Stark , had dragon-steel or light-bringer or some combination of those factors and they were quite happy Waymar had / fit none of that criteria. As for Jon and Bran i am somewhat torn , if the show becomes book canon and GRRM follows suit from the show in the books then i don't really sense any sort of fear from the NK towards Jon. Jon as his successor or taking Jon as a prisoner / host i can see. But personally i feel like Bran with a set of abilities similar to the NK (even with those gifts still in development) and the ability to access the Weirwood network to gain knowledge/insight on how to defeat the NK / WW ; to me seems to be the bigger threat to the NK and the NK's action seem to confirm he feels the same. If we look at the ruthless seek and destroy all out assault on Bran , i think that shows further evidence that the NK thought Bran enough of a threat needing to be eliminated imminently. Compare that to Jon where the NK could have easily ordered more wights and WWs to overwhelm and kill Jon at Hardhome but the NK simply took a curious observant approach. Even the WW that Jon killed at Hh was basically toying with Jon savoring the kill until the VS sword surprise. And during the Wight Hunt - the NK hit a high fast moving target in Viserion with those ice spears , so he could have easily put one or two of those through Jon but again the NK spared him. I do think there is something in Jon as the NK successor or the NK wanting him for some purpose ; but as a threat i would think the NK's actions show Bran is the superior threat who required swift , ruthless action. I do expect a fair amount of differences from the show in the books regarding the Others and in all likelihood it will take a two pronged approach of Bran and Jon together to take down the NK (in both the books and show). Although at this point i am just excited to see how it plays out in the final season of the series this Spring.

[@girlnettles]

9:11 WOOOWWW Joe! That Neverborn explanation just blew my mind. I always thought of the Neverborn purely when time travel is involved and the chain of events change.

[@ertanalisan4832]

The Nights Queen is captured in the Crypts of Winterfell and the Night King is on his way to free her, as the humans broke theire oath (what ever that is, releasing her after 8000 years or so), and the Night King, Azor Azai and the 13th Lord Commander are all the same

[@dhalps23]

Wow! Just thought of something that could be VERY IMPORTANT! Constantly Jon Snow says something like, "Children should not have to pay for the sins of their father". However, according to your video, your thoughts, and what is discussed, it sounds like somebody with King's Blood may have to be sacrificed and/or used in a ritual. Therefore, this would mean that somebody is paying for the sins of maybe their father or if not their father, then perhaps their forefather or ancestor or something? What do you think @GrayArea ​ GrayArea and @JoeMagician of what I have said? Any feedback is greatly appreciated!!! Love your videos.

[@evinroof8705]

If Old Nan is right about everything, then they do live in the eye of a giant and I'm going to f**ckin rage!

[@dadatdude]

First, I think there is a connection between "king's blood" and the people that taught the Targaryens to control the dragons. I think Bran is the Night King. Theory: The Nights King was a Bran or Bran traveling back in time. He was married to a queen or princess of the Other's, in order to secure peace. He was probably a bastard of House Stark. I don't believe the Others were always how they are now. I do believe they possessed magic, in particular ice/snow. The Night's King was probably taught to use his full abilities and enhance them throw cannibalism i.e. human sacrifice. He ruled for 13 years before the men found out his secret, over threw him, killed his wife and probably a child. That child was probably intended to mix the blood lines and insure peace. The 3 headed dragon being man, children of the forest, and the other's. The prince that was promised was no more, but because he was a Stark, they didn't kill him, inadvertently turned him into a the Night King. This is where the blood line is important. I believe that the effect of the dragon shards have on you is dependent of the lineage. That's why the prophecy says of fire and ice. Believing that the magic of the children of the forest is directly related to the house of Stark. Seemingly the darker the hair the stronger the Stark genes. It's a possibility that Jon Snow's blood is the only way to lift the curse of the children of the forest. Not before the Night King gets his revenge and eradicate the world of the houses that conspired against him and giving the others what they were promised. There was a illustration released of Bran the Builder, seemingly a cripple and commanding what appeared those that look eerily similar to others "whites", as they build the wall but they had chains around their necks and wrist. I believe John Snow can't be turned because he possesses magic. It has to be his choice. Just like we keep hearing that Dragons are not slaves. The prophecy also says that it must be 3 heads as well. Daenerys, John, and Tyrion! Still 3 Dragons too!

[@roseturchetta4051]

YEESSSS Memory, Sorrow, and Thorn! After getting a first infusion of Tolkien as a kid, THAT series was really what brought me full out into the fantasy genre. All that dense juicy prose, gorgeous world building, layers of history, damn right I read that first copy to Death till the pages started escaping on me! I still have that busted taped up brick in a place of honor on the shelf. And I'm sure it's what got me ready for that first taste of ASoIaF. Thank you Lady Gray, your depth and analysis has definitely been getting me through the Long Night 😊

[@lydiaquinn2892]

Fantastic talk! I agree with Joe... the NK wants Jon. I also think he doesn’t want to kill him because he has some kind of plans for him.... which I read online at least three years ago. Someone commented that Jon would take his place?? You know how the truth feels when you read it? Well that comment went right through my heart like the spear that took down Viscerion. Ugh because I don’t want that to happen, no way but it might. No please no. Maybe the NK is fire and Ice too and that’s why they want Jon

[@UnBroken11100]

I've been thinking about this for awhile...that George R. R. Martin has created a really poignant paradox between good and evil, that isn't what people think it is. Let me explain. First you have the "Others" in white, although they seem to be the bad guys. You Jon Snow and folks like the Night Watch in black, although they seem to be the good guys. But what if that's all just a mind f*ck? What if the Others are the heroes? But since the way they're accomplishing their task (whatever it is) is by killing without thought, they seem evil? What if Jon and Dany's actions will create the great evil that the Others are coming down to try and prevent? Basically it's the biggest "do the ends justify the means" question in history. lol Do the actions of the decent ones (Jon and Dany) that inadvertently create the ultimate evil, justify the actions of the evil ones (the Others) who are coming down to stop it?

[@ardaraith]

Gretchen I agree in that we know nothing about the Others. They are beings just like the humans, and look at the mean, horrible things the humans do! If I were an Other I would protect my realm from those barbarous humans, too!

[@JalapeñosYT]

I agree. I think of this all the time. I hope we get a valid, thorough answer in some way next season. :)

[@donnywilliams4376]

„Everyone is a hero in their own story“ GRRM

[@carriezen8499]

Maybe trying to prevent The Drowned God from taking dominion-- the DREAM of Spring (water) turning into the nightmare of spring.

[@Lyndiloo]

Oh you left us on a cliffhanger on purpose. 😂 I totally thought my KZbin was acting up.

[@vincepanuccio1923]

One of the most interesting talks I've heard on KZbin for a while :)

[@Tziguene]

John is the Fool, he knows nothing; and the Fool Travels the whole deck just to end up where they started, but facing the other way. This just rings true. The fool triumphant.

[@carriezen8499]

Michelle Hill- seems like maybe you also read Tarot. I am considering buying the GoT deck. Do you know if it is good? I will probably buy it regardless since GoT theme, but just wondering how well it actually reads/divines.

[@wikzip]

And practically this adds up very well with Daenarys House of the undying prophecy "to go south, you must go north" . Now Dany is finished with the north "mission" and can be the dragon she was born to be

[@haunanimartin459]

Excellent video! I think you're correct about what the White Walkers want. One person comes to mind who might have an impact on the fate of House Stark: Theon Greyjoy. Theon has been on a redemptive arc; after all, he declared himself the Prince of Winterfell after betraying House Stark, & was believed to have executed the 2 youngest wolves. He also has king's blood, & did claim Winterfell; I wonder if they demand the life of a prince of Winterfell, if Theon would offer himself, as a way to making right the terrible errors he committed against the family who honored him as a royal prisoner, like royal houses did in medieval times.

[@aprilzoegandphoenix6484]

This would be awesome. If you've seen any leaks from the very legit KZbinr FrikiDoctor (who has been correct on leaks from the past few seasons), it appears Theon may not make it to the end of this story. But! I feel like he may be killed saving his sister.

[@haunanimartin459]

@@aprilzoegandphoenix6484 His sister was one bad-ass warrior. But, I think the crazy uncle will kill her, like a petulant child pulling the legs off an insect. Although Theon failed his sister during the battle, I don't think he'll be able to save her from their uncle. In that convo w/ Jon, Jon tells him he's both Greyjoy & Stark; I think Theon may soon be telling Jon something similar. Theon feels he has much to atone for; ideally, he would be able to rescue his sister, & somehow balance out the crimes & betrayals he committed against his foster family. If he could save his sister, she would rock being a Greyjoy Queen. Damn, I wish April was here already!!!

[@ieatzebraarah]

I'm glad you brought up MS&T I'm almost done with book 2 & I'm constantly finding references to ASOIAF & I'm excited to see you it explore the connections further

[@jambetter]

What if the prince that was promised was Brandon rivers (Bloodraven) he is kind of ice and fire Targaryen and Blackwood (first men from the north)but didn’t keep his promise and hid with the help of the children of the forest believing it would somehow stop or destroy the knights king ending some kind of cycle only to find out they started a whole new chain of events

[@ohhhmindy4380]

Interestingly, in the show as See Alliser is about to hang he tells Jon Snow that he’s about to rest but JS will be fighting their battles forever.

[@shifty495]

We learn about kings blood with Gendry. That he will make kings rise and fall. Which king did he help rise? And how does his blood come into play? Second, did Bran getting touched by the night king break the spell with the wall, as with the werewood protection spell, allowing the night king to travel south as soon as Bran went south?

[@milenarocha3446]

"What do you think we're gonna find out in S8?" Ohh my sweet summer child...

[@alexjacko432]

I love all your videos, you talk about things I’ve never even thought of before 😊

[@brettsilva7317]

About wether or not Kings blood is special or not. How about when Melisandre used Gendrys blood to birth the shadow demon? That leads me to believe there is something special about kings blood other wise she could’ve used anyone’s blood.

[@floydrowe3029]

Like you said in part 1 of this video, the NK always shows up when either Bran or Jon is around, but treats them differently. It seems like he wants to kill Bran, but is just toying with Jon. What if Jon is the "Prince that was promised" and is supposed to become the new NK, but Bran has the ability to stop it and that's why the current NK wants him dead?!?! Just a thought

[@freazeezy]

I like this idea that it's the potential of the sacrifice that makes them powerful rather then a bloodline. Song of ice and fire as a series takes the stance that "power resides where men believe it does" which flies in the face of any family being special. Extra evidence: when Danny unknowingly sacrifices her son to save Drogo she has a vision of him as a strong and powerful adult before he crumbles away.

[@sherrybrehm6012]

Varys said when he was cut and the sorcerer burned his parts, the flame was BLUE (like Viserion's flame, like the white walkers eyes) and he heard a voice. Maybe the purpose of that spell was to wake the Night King, or to find out how to wake him. Varys was terrified by the voice, so maybe everything he has done and keeps doing is designed to bring that about or prevent it, following the directions of, or going against, the Voice he heard. It could be that he just doesn't want to die and is manipulating people and events to save himself, or as he may see it, helping the people of the realm. That would explain him being willing to kill Daenerys and why he would not want her to have a child. It could also be why he is so scared of the red priestesses and priests.

[@TheRaechelblaze]

I suggest you guys look up the storyline and the ending scene to the pc game diablo. I think that's the direction we are going. Dragon glass in place of the soul stone obviously.

[@bore-osofmyr2539]

Joe Magician’s video A Ranger in the Snow is an amazing work of analysis.

[@bilbobaggins259]

I watch you vids while at work and I see your uploading more....NICE!!!

[@katk925]

With the Targaryen connection I think it’s that the dragon magic is the same type of earth magic as children of the forest and thus Dany is needed now for the ritual to transform Jon because there’s no more children. Like if you figure the rank in the NK army is how you are changed, dead no touch Rez makes a regular wight, touch Rez makes you a whitewalker level, so the NK can’t make another NK and be replaced without someone higher in rank to him, a COTF or Dany.

[@BodyBrightWorkout]

An important theme throughout the story is that there is good and bad in all races and individuals, so judgement is best reserved until full context is considered and even then is entirely subjective.

[@prernasodhi4]

There is another dialogue in the show which kind off points to Jon being the Night King. When Danaerys points out that before starks bent the knee to her ancestors starks were kings and that there has always been peace in Westeros when a stark and Targaryan sat on the opposite ends of the country. A stark in the north and a targareyan on the Iron throne. I dont know how valid this is but i always thought that line stuck out in their conversation.

[@williamhermann6635]

Fun fact: i did some digging and in a few different online dictionaries, "lion" is a synonom of "prince." What if "The Prince That Was Promised" actually means the Lion That Was Promised? Could it be Jaime? Maybe Cersei will be the next Night's Queen?

[@Katerine459]

Fantastic theories as usual! (Thinking about the books, not the show). But I just wanted to thank you for the mental image the thumbnail ("they want what was promised") gave me, of the Others making their way south and confronting the armies of men with, "YOU DIDN'T SAY MAYHAPS!" I'm never getting that mental image out of my head now. :/ (But that line of thinking also led me to think... perhaps the Night's King wasn't a Stark, after all. Old Nan said "mayhaps.")

[@andrewljhagen3459]

How it went wrong: when the Children turned that man into the first White Walker he may have had to power to warg. If the obsidian gave him the power of the White Walkers it also allowed him to warg into many beings at once which could explain how the wights came to be. We saw at Hardhomme how the Night King was able to raise all of the dead, he is just warging into their dead bodies at the same time, also while being able to stay in his own body. (So says: cmurray82889 No country for Old Nan )

[@edwardmartin5860]

Man!,you and tha majic man killed it.well worth tha wait love you grey.

[@juliant]

i think they are after Bran, they keep coming for him, they are hunting him. Remember when jorgen and meera where helping bran to the 3 eyed raven they had to keep an eye out for spies, implying the nights king was warging into animals to track down Bran, but once the night king had touched bran he no longer had to search, he was able to find bran instantly, thats what drew the walkers to the wall, bran crossed it, now they head to winterfell because bran is there.

[@lydiaquinn2892]

Ok Gray upon re-listening I do agree that the NK was promised someone specifically and I think it’s to take his place. But he tried to kill Bran in the cave so I don’t think he’s unsure who is who. As I said there’s a reason Jon’s character is both fire and ice so that has to come to play.

[@williamh9491]

I have a theory that i haven’t heard yet. Being that there was a previous night king with a beard that is mia, i believe the answer is that he is trapped in the crypts of winterfell and that the current night king is actually being controlled by the old night king. I believe that some one will kill the current night king thinking all the undead will die only to realize they did not and end up getting killed. Then they discover the previous night king later.

[@semprejgloh]

Maybe they’re going to do whatever they did to Uncle Benjin to Jon Snow . Because he is not like normal white walkers. He also moves on his own or without command unlike the others, they normally always move at the command of the Night King. I always wondered why that is.

[@davidgreene2263]

Um, one thing I think is completely overlooked and not completely understood: Magic goes through long cycles, ebbs and flows. It maybe just as a table top role player, I have seen it as a game mechanic. I think this is the driving force for all that has happened. Dragons get smaller as a prime example. Another option could be magic is tied to the presence of dragons but one of those two options seem to never be expressed. I do think magic has a baseline (will never get weaker than this point) and that’s why parlor trick are even around and the low points.

[@666neoselen]

if three-eyed raven and night king have same source of power, maybe the night king saw a bit the future, particularly the one who will kill him. so, he did all that was possible to make this moment so late in time. that's why he got oppportunity to destroy the wall to try one possible future where everyone was dead and under his commandment.

[@shannond7437]

I actually think all magic in the story is sourced from the same place. It is very likely George’s version of the Night King is a greenseer and why he was chosen.

[@LetsBeClear87]

You guys went peak nerd half way in - I love it so much

[@randyjohnson9760]

My own little theory: Its not about Bran being the Night King, but let me explain. I believe Bran is the Night King. Not news but important. I have thought that since they switched actors because the actor who plays Bran was way too young to play the Night King and that's why he was out of the show for a full season. When he aged they made the change to the actor. So Bran is the night king and they are all stuck in a time loop. I believe the show ends like this. Jon and Bran have been apart for the entire show after season 1 and were trying to reunite before Bran became the 3 eyed raven. The whole show is about them reuniting. Bran died and became the 3 eyed raven and Jon literallydied physically and metaphorically in the battle of the bastards. He had been on a collision course with the Night King, obviously. At the battle Jon invited to fight Ramsey to save lives and Ramsey declined. I believe the NK will take Kings Landing and a million soldiers and then take what he really wants, which is winterfell. He is trying to get back to winterfell because he still knows he is a stark and that's his home. Dani and her dragons will still be alive behind the walls and the NK will accept Jon's challenge believing he cannot be defeated. Jon fights well but he is killed and the NK turns his attention to screaming dragons and a heartbroken Dani. He has suffered a defeat at some point by Dani and her dragons so she is still a threat. He turns to Jon, touches his head, his eyes turn blue and he is reborn. The NK turns back to Dani with his hard home, come at me look. Just then Jon steps in front of him and the duel is not over. Jon is reborn a White and a Targaryen. He picks up long claw and ignites it with blue flame (just like the flame Vaserion has) and heis Azor Ahai. The sun is starting to rise and the battle for the dawn begins and Dani and her army and the golden company charge from behind the walls while Jon and the Night King fight to the death. Jon kills the NK but in doing so, he also kills Bran. Jon's home is no longer in Westeros, it is in the land of always winter and he leads the whites back home after signing a peace agreement at the sacred tree. After thousands of years as a white, man unknowingly breaks peace and Jon becomes the Night King. What do you think?

[@lindastaton5612]

@justin lloyd because Hodor was having a vision of what would happen to him while bran was seeing the past

[@briceslorene8760]

Yass we’re back at it again, let’s begin

[@torchsnow629]

I just cant agree that the night king we saw being created on the show was the first white walker...i believe what we saw was the last hero who was a powerful greenseer (like Bran) being turned into a white walker to warg the white walkers ending the first Long Night by taking them to the lands of always winter....this even jives with the synopsis of the upcoming prequel series that is suppose to reveal the “true origins” of the white walkers

[@bobsanderson6520]

So Jon is tackled by wights and falls through the ice in certain peril. There is no move by the NK or WW to prevent that or to rescue Jon. Twice Jon duels with a WW, HardHome and the Wight Hunt, which are clearly fights to the death. If the NK wants Jon alive, he sure has a strange way of showing it. In the Prologue, the attitude displayed by the WWs is not disappointment that Royce is not Jon i.e. PtwP, but a sudden confidence that if this is the PtwP, then he ain't no big deal. There is absolutely ZERO basis to believe that the NK has been propping Jon up all along. Remember too, Jon is not a Stark bastard. He is a goddamn Targ King. Whatever blood means, this is significant. Bran is the one the NK literally let go, albeit in the La la land of visions. Bran has the powers closer to the NK. Bran's personality is becoming dehumanized without sentimentality. These cannot be ignored or dismissed. These are put out there for a reason.

[@laurajeanvalentine]

Nobody has answered why Jon told Berric "you don't understand" when he pointed at the night king and said kill him and they will all die. If they have been resurrected are they still "alive" or dead men walking?

[@SariiaTheCatDemon]

"Dorne's not in the show anymore, Joe" LOL

[@katk925]

So if the scene of the initial NK sacrifice is supposed to be on the isle of faces before the pact? Wouldn’t this guy have to be one of the First men? Since there were no other people around yet he would have to have been either captured, or given to the children, so they could use him to create an army designed to help win the war against the other first men? Maybe he was captured and tied up by giants for the greenseers to convert? Maybe that’s a part of the pact is that you can’t undo the blood magic only replace it with a new life? I’m wondering if since melesandre also said the prince who was promised was prophesied about 5k years ago she could be 1k off and it’s really just a pact like “okay we will stop fighting but you gotta let our man go after each long winter eventually and promise a new guy.”

[@belindawiesle2262]

One of your best! I am going to check Joe out thanks

[@StormSteele]

I am so glad the continuation of this discussion is here! Juice time with Mama Gray! Yeah!

[@jayblack7495]

Regarding King's Blood, Jon Snow was bled out when he was betrayed by the Night's Watch. His blood literally stained the snow & soil of Castle Black. What if it wasn't until he slept with Dany that his blood was truly (warmed) renewed. That might explain why the Night King breached the wall within moments of Dany & Jon consumating for the very first time. The timing of their union coinciding with the coming of Winter is certainly not coincidental . . .

[@djhinnox8461]

What if the first Night King got killed by Jon and had no other option because of the Corpse Queen command him to do it. It's Jon himself from the future trying to get revenge on Bran for bannishing him to the North. By bannishing someone you also erase his/her name from all the Books and never mention him in the upcoming books.

[@dragonstonefirechief]

I get what you guys are saying, but how do we tie that up with the crypts? Must there always be a stark in winterfell so the Night King can come back and use a stark for his redemption one day? That could make sense I guess. But why then did Bran build the crypts before the castle?

[@sophiawilson8696]

ps Night King was the son of the first king (First Men) during years of Dawn Age. When the First Men fought the Children. A peace act was sign but there still attacks on villages he sent his son to see what going on. Renegades Children turn them into White Walkers. Him and his 11 companions.

[@coreymarko]

Love it! 113% been on board the Night King = a Stark theory (which one specifically I’m not sure, but def a Stark) for a while and this just helps to clinch that for me even more. Sooo much really keeps pointing this way, I’d be genuinely surprised if it didn’t turn out to be the case. And I really would love it if we get a nearly full Night King-centric episode this season. Even if it’s mostly free of dialogue (or just captioned ice crackling for that matter lol), I really want to some extended time spent exploring as far north as possible for an episode. Idk how likely it is to happen so late in the game, but I’d really love that chance to understand the machinations of the white walkers, their home, their culture (or whatever we wanna call it lol) and specifically an extensive look at the Night Kings origins, his life and his motivations. Like you said, I fully believe his backstory will end up being a sad one. Even as the big bad of the show; in a universe of SUCH complex characters, we can bet that he’ll likely turn out to be a complex and maybe even empathetic villain on some level, and that would enhance the story much more than him being a default destroyerer of the world type villain. Gods, is it April yet? Wouldn’t make it through the winter without these vids!

[@torchsnow629]

Btw my comment by no means was a critique of your video...i loved these 2 videos and you always pump out stellar work Gray

[@djrerayaloha4112]

The Night King's actions are cold and calculated, this kind of effort will only lead to who's in charge.

[@jamieflanagin2214]

Both vids were great.Thank you.One thing tho,when the COTF turned the man into the NK,he was tied to a weir wood tree.If you look to the left of picture you can see the face.Really enjoyed these!XO

[@chrisph9910]

Edric Snow has Targeryen Blood, and I think when Melisandre says Fire Magic is depending on Kings Blood, it is actually Targeryen blood that is important to Fire Magic.

[@neetj2413]

Listening to this it made me think of something when u mentioned the starks having the long beards that it may reference the picture in the cave that John showed Dany The long bearded men in the cave may have been starks and thats they were the original white walkers or help to create them. That may be what John meant when he told Beric beyond the wall "you dont understand".

[@ChescoYT]

20:34 MY THEORY IVE BEEN SPAMMING ON KZbin VIDEOS FOR OVER 4 YEARS NOW! The guy tied to the tree is Bran Stark greenseared as 'Bran the Builder', gets caught by the Children of the Forest (who may be warring with Men at this time), and they convert him into the Night's King!! OMFG amazing plot-twist right? Night's King wears the same shaped outfit as bran, same nose (plaster mold made from the makeup dept.), and the Night's King sigil is an open raven's mouth on his armor!

[@TruckieLooks4Aliens]

No, old Naan speaks of the 13th commander who was the one who fell in love with a woman whitewalker. He was taken down. The white walkers existed before the starks were there. They made a pact with the white walkers

[@johnlindell5024]

Could Ned have known that Jon where to be given to the white walkers? Maybe he didn't hide Jon from Robert. Maybe Ned remembered but told no one. Maybe the agreement was that every 100 years a new prince was promised.

[@gavomorg2948]

Great video gray really gd collaboration wud love to see u do one with bridge4 s Kevin I think he's on to a lot of what's going on regarding night king, also started reading dragonbone chair!

[@consolerepublic9038]

It doesn't make sense that they would just attack without asking for what was promised to them. It's most likely that Lyanna was the promised one but she got married and that kinda ruined everything.

[@j.j5724]

Before John was named King of the North. The Wildlings named him King crow when he was convincing them to leave Hardhome. Maybe the Night King senses King blood in John + Stark

[@maeriel2057]

It'll be interesting if Bran ends up being sacrificed and bloodraven knew about it/was preparing him for his own death all along. Similar to Dumbledore leading Harry to his sacrifice (only with a much worse end for Bran!)

[@musspuss]

What if the night king wants Sansa?. That would be a great Twist

[@musspuss]

@Todd Starbuck 😀

[@michaellewis8431]

It's possible because she made a comment in EW about how her character arc ended. She was surprised !

[@anklesockson8134]

Lady was sort of sacrificed too

[@billyboblillybob344]

Obviously, she'd phoenix him to pieces and the promise of spring would be fulfilled...lol

[@Nwakilla187]

He wants Cersei's unborn baby who is "The Valonqar" the Night Queen. The 1st White Walker Witch with magical powers that turned him.

[@carlbradley4872]

So let's say you guys have it mostly right. How much would Jon having already been brought back by fire mess with the grand plan? Does he still HAVE King's blood? He never REALLY was a bastard, either. So could he have been the key to the Night King's plan, but now be the reason the cycle ends? OR-- Might his having the noble personality of Ned be the way he chooses to take the mantle of Night King to start the cycle anew, thus giving living men another 10,000 years of safety from the dead?

[@ranganathb.c3690]

In the crypts of winterfell you see statues of John snow, Sansa and Arya but not Bran. And in the season 8 teaser Lyanna Stark says to John "You have to protect him". Does she refer to protecting Bran?. Also we have seen white walker able to touch Bran. So maybe Bran would be the next white walker. maybe feather refer to Bran turning into ice

[@Moss_and_Such]

I have trouble believing that the show runners would introduce time disruption, without it playing a major role in the endgame. Bran had a physical effect on the past in Hodors mind. I think these consequences will play a role in defeating, or creating the others.

[@cyshen405]

I love your videos! Very insightful and you have the chill vibes. Btw, I'm playing a game on my phone called reigns, the GOT version. In this game, you can play as different characters. Basically you need to keep a good balance between all kinds of stuff. When playing as Danni, there is a scenario when Rhaegal is back and need a rider. For some reason I chose Tyrion. And... it works. That may say something about Tyrion being a secret Targaeryon.

[@griiseknoen]

Your accent is great! Never lose it.

[@lady_wasser]

Mamma’s juice 🥤! Thank you Gray, this was my early name day 🎁

[@peepgames4985]

🐦🍰

[@lady_wasser]

dam bro thank you! 😘

[@peepgames4985]

@@lady_wasser your welcome !😎😉🤟🎉

[@tracyf7301]

I think Nan is a child of the forest that helped create the night king. They say they live for thousands of years.

[@winterwolf458]

I think you guys are right that we will feel sorry for the Night King once we know the full story. GRRM even said that there are no truly evil characters in the story. Everyone is a hero to their own ppl (or own minds). Also, we saw the ritual that created him. He looked like a normal man in terror, tied up and gagged. the whole story is a complex tragedy.

[@trotz75]

If that's true, did the night king drop the spells to allow the dragons to come north?

[@darkday1450]

I honestly loved this! You guys are awesome.

[@pixelperfectInteriors]

So the prince who was promised would wake dragon from stone and this is seemingly Dany. However, if someone gave Bran the horn, well, he MIGHT be able to wake dragons from stone...certainly control them, so maybe he will "fly" after all.

[@richiesantiago6074]

9:44 NED SAID ANYTHING BEFORE THE WORD "BUT" WAS BULLSHIT LOL

[@raulcedo2375]

Yes, The last son of craster is all they wanted, they tried it once when sam tarly killed one white walker and maybe the child of gilly is the son (prince) is to be the next king of the white walkers

[@gloriamitchell3518]

Awesome content. Thanks to you both.

[@tresentrulla4275]

I don't know if it's already written here.... but maybe "the prince that was promised" is the unborn child of jon and danny....

[@adrianburchell1467]

Have you or Joe Magician reviewed this since season 8 and the Long Night series were cancelled? Any new thoughts?

[@corbinskywalker]

Return of the Gray Lady...

[@LincyMcGabby]

I love it when I receive a notification from this channel🔥👌🔥👌