Why I disagree with

Could @PeterAttiaMD live to 150? He recently told his podcast audience he’s bored of ‘sci-fi’ portrayals of ageing biology-and so am I!-but here’s why I think Peter living to 150 years old is not sci-fi…it just requires far greater investment in longevity research.
To be clear, I still think it’s far from certain that Peter will hit the big 120-but I think he’s missing something important when he makes comments like these.
If you want to find out more details of the treatments that could keep Peter-and you!-to live much healthier for longer, you might enjoy my book, Ageless ageless.link/
tl;dr? If you want to know how to live to 150, the most important thing isn’t biohacking, or optimising your supplement stack-it’s spreading the word about longevity science.
This video contains clips from Peter Attia’s podcast, The Drive. You can watch the full episode I’m quoting from here: • 276 ‒ Special episode:...
Chapters
00:00 Introduction
01:06 Where I agree with Peter
02:32 Where I disagree with Peter
10:14 The most important thing Peter could do for his health (and yours!)
Sources and further reading
US life expectancy at 50 in 2019 via this life table www.ssa.gov/oact/STATS/table4... 92,171 (people still alive at 50) / 2 = 46,085; 45,385 are still alive at 82.
The study I reference about people ticking 4 out of 5 healthy behaviors living even longer www.bmj.com/content/368/bmj.l...
I calculate the number of deaths caused by ageing here. The US is actually on the low end for rich countries-the average across the high-income nations is 90% of deaths being caused by ageing. andrewsteele.co.uk/ageless/re...
National Institute for Aging, Aging Biology Division budget via www.nia.nih.gov/about/budget/... vs National Institutes of Health budget via www.nih.gov/about-nih/what-we...
Credits
Thanks to @MarkusWaas who sent me a message with the idea for this video!
And finally…
Follow me on Instagram / andrewjsteele
Like my page on Facebook / drandrewsteele
Follow me on Twitter / statto
Follow me on Bluesky bsky.app/profile/statto.bsky....
Follow me on Mastodon mas.to/@statto
Read my book, Ageless: The new science of getting older without getting old ageless.link/

[@DrAndrewSteele]

Peter said something similar to this in his book, _Outlive_ - ‘[There] are those who are convinced that science will soon figure out how to unplug the aging process itself, by tweaking some obscure cellular pathway…or “reprogramming” our cells so that we no longer need to age at all. This seems highly unlikely in our lifetime.’ It’s a real shame to see such a dismissive comment squirreled into the opening chapters of such a popular (and otherwise great!) book. Peter, if you’re reading-I’d be very happy to come on the podcast to chat to you about why I take issue with this! :)

[@HouseGuide]

Andrew, make a secret contact inside of Jeff Bezos's Altos Labs. He has created this company for the purpose of keeping himself immortal.

[@synaestesia-bg3ew]

I take taurine every days,it improved my skin ànd sleep

[@synaestesia-bg3ew]

You are an optimistic man who is under 40, but you must understand Peter Attia from his standpoint, he probably had the most intense youth with optimal hormonal balance. I believe that men like him, extremely high testosterone when young, and who reach that later phase must feel the decline harder than others. He reminds me of my father around the same age, reaching 50 seem like an allmark in many civilizations and culture and he is of Christian Egyptian background. In the middle east the age expectancy is very limited because of the stress, pollution, overpopulation, sectarian violence. Attia come from Coptic Christian background and they tend to be extremely homogeneous, with strong Paleo Egyptian and Macedonian heritage, meaning they rarely mix with Arabs. They have genetic diseases that we rarely encounter in the West. You have Steve Job who died at 56 because of a rare cancer that he inherited from his Syrian father's lineage Most importantly Peter Attia is a very realist man with immense intelligence and in-depth philosophical reasoning who often meditate and thinking about his existence, the futility of life. Men like him who accomplished so much in short time and have no more challenges often questions the reason to live. Also remember that not everyone enjoy life the same way. Attia was fulled by the pleasure to succeed in life, reaching the top because that is the only option of a Christian ministry in Egypt, among a Muslim majority.

[@Frostbiker]

I have a more cynical take on Attia's dismissal of potential cures for aging: they would be in direct competition to his very lucrative business. Wealthy folks of the sort that pay him for medical advice would be less likely to become a client of his if alternatives looked more promising.

[@synaestesia-bg3ew]

@@Frostbiker No I wouldn't put him in that category, I think that he is a man who overthinking a lot, with a different philosophy than us. I like to listen to both realist and enthusiasts. I am personally both a realist and a optimist. I know that my body is a bag of bones and liquid that is extremely vulnerable to the cosmic universe and all the attacks that occurs during a lifetime. We seem to have a finit life expectancy and highly vulnerable to the forces of the universe, ever since we were ejected from our mother's womb. Notice that a mother's womb act like a protective atmosphere, filtering the rémanent of cosmic rays trying to kill during 9 months, but as soon we get out, aging started.

[@AP-kl3qe]

This... This is why i try to be as healthy and fit as i can be. And it motivates me to go running, even in winter.

[@Sonnell]

Andrew, great video as always. You should have a lot more subscribers, as you represent true science and sanity so well!

[@TSutton]

Great video as ever, I’m always impressed with how approachable and understandable you make incredibly complex topics appear, even to those such as myself with no biological or medical backgrounds! Here’s hoping your platform continues to grow to help further campaign towards further research :D

[@MarkusWaas]

Great video, exactly the kind of response I was hoping for. Peter's thoughts on this topic seem quite narrow and I just don't know why.

[@DrAndrewSteele]

Thanks Marcus! And also some credit: thanks for dropping me a message with the idea for this video. :D

[@remismeskas8388]

you are a morooon....@@DrAndrewSteele

[@garyst.armand4976]

Maybe you should listen to Peter's entire comments instead of this guy's highly edited version. When you do, you'll see that it makes it sense.

[@DrAndrewSteele]

@@garyst.armand4976 What exactly do you feel I’ve misrepresented or taken out of context here? I also provided a full link to the podcast this is from in the description.

[@SilverFan21k]

Thanks for this video of its cool to see you + Peter both talking about this subject

[@adrnjgr]

In the meantime, basically as Bryan Johnson puts it, don't die.

[@DrAndrewSteele]

One place where Bryan and I agree!

[@nichtsistkostenlos6565]

I don't know if it's fair to criticize Peter on not advocating for funding of anti-aging research. He already highly advocates for more money being spent on long-term preventative care in the medical establishment, this is his entire point of Medicine 3.0. This is effectively challenging the medical establishment to focus on anti-aging and avoiding early death, just a bit more broadly defined. I don't think he disagrees that these breakthroughs could come and that the research itself is important, it just sounds like he's frustrated about how misrepresented the current research is by some of its advocates and that they're basically lying to people about where we really are. Some people seem to think we are literally on the cusp of curing aging and that is just not true in any meaningful way. I find anti-aging research to be deeply interesting, and as such, I follow it very closely. I'm motivated to stay healthy for both the reasons that Peter mentioned (I don't know if these anti-aging cures are coming, so let's focus on what I can control), and what you mentioned, if those cures are coming I'd like to live long enough to benefit. I think your worldview and his are completely compatible as long as we're being real about what's really going on in this space and not lying to ourselves or the world.

[@pubwvj]

Aye. I plan to live forever, or die trying. I come from long lived ancestors, have done the “right stuff” all my life and still fell about the same as when I was 25. I am 61. So many interesting things to do.

[@georgbrindlinger1008]

Very nice video, thank you. This does not even consider the acceleration of science due to AI...I am two years younger than Peter, so thats a bonus :) Hopefully many good things to come for us.

[@DrAndrewSteele]

AlphaFold gives me optimism that AI can help us understand biological systems…we just need to make sure we collect enough data about ageing to train the anti-aging-AI! :)

[@remismeskas8388]

foool....@@DrAndrewSteele

[@AlanZucconi]

It is *very* difficult to believe anyone claiming their protocols can make people live up to 120, when they're not 120 yet. 😅 Jokes asides, I'd be quite interested to know if there's any "hardcoded" limitation on how old the brain can get. I think is a very interesting question, as brains do age and have not really evolved to remain effective and efficient beyond a certain age! For instance, how more difficult it is to create new memories/pathways as the brain ages? Do you know any research on this?

[@squamish4244]

The brain is subject to the same aging forces as any other organ - and the same rejuvenation forces. For instance, intravenous NAD+ is known to be able to rebuild receptors in the brain that have been damaged by drug abuse.

[@squamish4244]

I agree with Attia if we only succeed in incrementally adding a few years here and there over the next two or three decades. That's too slow and too prone to you easily falling through the cracks. The only way I see things really working is if some dramatic breakthrough enables sudden jumps by ten or 20 years in life expectancy, such as the new XPrize is trying to accomplish. That would give people the requisite breathing space.

[@andrecostainfante2172]

Dr Andrew, could you make a video regarding the work of Michael Levin? It is related to this topic and his research is the most mind-blowing thing I've ever heard regarding biology. Love your content, keep rocking! 🙌🏽

[@hedu5303]

What is your opinion about David Sinclair and changing the epigenom?

[@cristoffdavid8651]

thank you for your work ! your book was brilliant! I do hope Peter sees this!

[@DrAndrewSteele]

Thank you!

[@LiebsterFeind]

I didn't see this mentioned in your excellent video, but I believe nanobots in the bloodstream is also an uncounted potential solution in your analysis suite. I haven't a chirp about it since Ray Kurzweil talked about it years ago, but if it worked, it could be a game changer. Especially if they could create an army of nanobots that swam around your blood and scanned your cells for broken DNA, shortened telomeres, or deteriorating mitochondria, etc. and could then apply fixes as needed. I mention Kurzweil with emphasis because much of your reasoning that underpins your optimism for near-term life duration mirrors his closely, along the lines of the "live long enough to live forever" theme.

[@ninjam77]

First I want to say that I pretty much completely agree with your message. I think that funding of research into aging biology is crucial and really needs a big boost. However one issue with your calculation in this video is you use the increase in life expectancy of 8 years from the study on health care workers engaging in 4/5 healthy habits and applied it to the current average life expectancy. However in the study the life expectancy was not 82 years as it's now but only 73.5. We can't just apply habits that got people to live up to 81 instead of 74 and assume that they'd increase life expectancy in our current population to 90. Smoking has decreased, obesity has increased our lives are not the same as they were when the study started. I think it's possible that the life expectancy of someone engaging in a lot of healthy habits and a really healthy lifestyle is 90+ but I don't know of any actual data on that, so we can only really speculate.

[@DrAndrewSteele]

I’m not sure I understand what you mean! You say ‘in the study the life expectancy was…only 73.5’. But, if you look at Fig 1 in the study, the life expectancy for people ticking _none_ of the healthy behaviour boxes was just over 30 years at age 50, ie just over 80..? www.bmj.com/content/368/bmj.l6669

[@SilverFan21k]

I respect Peter but it seems he only repeats exercise + VO2 max over and over.

[@legendgary1387]

Another great take from Andrew Steele. Nuanced and all signal, no noise.

[@greenstar2108]

Are there any credible organisations that money could be donated to by members of the public though? My being willing to take the idea of slowing down aging substantially, happened after speaking casually to a near retirement biology professor in London who specialised in genetics. I asked them if people claiming we could slow down aging in humans were talking out of their rectum or not, and they basically said that offering a general opinion wasn't something they were comfortable doing as biology has become more and more specialised and advanced, which makes it difficult to offer summary judgements on a complex multifaceted topic, but that the advances they were seeing in genetics made them feel that kids entering primary school at the time (this was about 6 years ago) could realistically be breaking 100 on average barring injury etc. I'm a mathematician, currently retraining as a physicist, so I'm not qualified to judge their opinions on genetics, but it was enough for me to start taking the idea of anti-aging research more seriously rather than dismissing it as a kind of con or hopeless cause. Nevertheless, whilst I have made a couple of small donations to SENS, if I'm honest I'm still far more comfortable making regular donations to Cancer Research UK, and Alzheimer's' Research UK (which I have been donating to for years), because I know they are serious organizations with excellent reputations. Are there any comparable organisations I could point to when I comes to donating for other avenues of anti-aging research? I think I've managed to convince just one family member (a parent) to sort out their lifestyle to give themselves a shot. I did convince them to start making donations to Cancer Research UK as well, but I wouldn't know an organisation to even point to for anti-aging research more generally. It would be hard for me to point to Aubrey de Grey or something he's associated with, as most people I know would dismiss him out of hand based on his physical appearance, regardless of whether his theories are right or not. Regards

[@DrAndrewSteele]

I made a list of organisations working on aging at ageless.link/help (which seeks to be comprehensive rather than an endorsement, so please look into organisations before donating!), but I do think that in general this is a very credible area of research-with more promise than cancer or Alzheimer’s research actually! (Dementia in particular I think we’ll cure by treating ageing, because it is probably highly multifactorial.) I sorely wish there was an Ageing Research UK on the scale of CRUK-it would be of huge benefit to the field. (And I think kids in primary school now can expect to live to 100 _without_ substantial advances in aging biology-if you just extrapolate existing life expectancy trends, they’ll manage it!)

[@greenstar2108]

@@DrAndrewSteele - cheers for the link Sir. I'll take a look at it. Regards

[@valleyshrew]

@@DrAndrewSteele Why are you ignoring climate change? Kids today wont have a habitable planet to survive 100 years on.

[@autisticautumn7379]

Metformin is definately a hope .I wrote my masters Dissertation on its ability to reduce inflammation via the inhibition of the NLP3 inflammasome pathway .

[@KasKade7]

Obviously, almost anyone with a science background will think science and technology will somehow extend their life. It's just a matter of time and more and more money, right? Well, if anything science and technology improves lifespan very little at the cost of healthspan right now. Every powerful drug has side effects. That we humans can somehow manipulate the aging proces of the body, that took millions years of evolution and nature's works is crazy to me. This is why Peter his thoughts are refreshing to me. He has a frontrow seat with science and technology, but still doesn't believe we're on the cusp of anything major. That's alot more believable than you asking for more funding and buying your book.

[@squamish4244]

Well, we did crack the atom, and 50 years earlier that seemed crazy...so the steam engine, before it existed. And flight. So the concept that something is too 'crazy' doesn't make sense in science, in principle.

[@Armondahad]

I think this can be summed up as a more liberal/optimistic vs more conservative/pessimistic view of things for which we currently have weak/low quality preliminary evidence. Frankly, I have to side with Peter because as a biologist who has a fair bit of experience reading clinical trials, a heavy majority of interventions that seem promising (whether in epidemiological human studies or in animal/in vitro models) just don't end up panning out in higher quality RCTs.

[@rendurtv1379]

Great Video Brother Peter Got some hope!

[@theikimashoclub5719]

So what is the answer? Just sit back and die when we can something about it? People want to live longer and for some of their time is running out. I get the snake oil salesmen tactics but clinical trials that take forever will age out some people. We as a society need a serious discussion to move this forward.

[@haroldpierre1726]

In science, our optimism far outpaces reality.

[@paulsenjohannes]

Living such a long life span, I dearly don't want to experience. Even 80+ is just trouble. Politicians, scientists, businesses, farmers, people, and governments just make it unbearable. The sooner I leave, the better.

[@bepeem]

I will refer to this comment in 164 years from now. Since I'm mentioning this regularly in the last years, I think it''s time to make it public now. I hope KZbin will still exist in some form then. Here we go: I am the first person in the history of mankind that will turn 200 years old. Prove me wrong haters!

[@madgoatsnorway6690]

Love ya spirit mate!

[@hamidaabdenour9092]

😂😂😂😂😂😂😂

[@Frostbiker]

I actually met a guy who said similar things and didn't make it to fifty. True story. I wish you better luck than he had.

[@pubwvj]

Aye. I plan to live forever, or die trying. I come from long lived ancestors, have done the “right stuff” all my life and still fell about the same as when I was 25. I am 61. So many interesting things to do.

[@pcpmendonca]

Hey old man, in my experience those who want to live the most are the ones who go away faster. Lolololol

[@SlamminGraham]

I don't really think we should frame gene therapy as "sci-fi" or even something mysterious. It has been around in theory for many decades, and even though it is just now finding its footing and real-world applications, it is firmly rooted in very basic cellular biology. If you understand how DNA works and how it ultimately results in different types of proteins being produced, then you can understand why gene editing is important and what kind of major impact it can and does have on lifeforms. Also, I still don't like the term "clocks". They are not stalwart, unchanging timing devices. Rather, these things are much better called biomarkers, or indicators. They're letting us know how senescent something is. Like a gas tank meter, or a pressure gauge.

[@laaneychoonz1330]

Cancel military spending, invest all the money in anti-aging, make military service required to receive the elixir and then marvel as your military becomes the most powerful in the world!

[@bepeem]

That made me feel weird. I want to up and downvote your comment in the same time I'll just let it as it is.

[@nichtsistkostenlos6565]

Why would it be desirable for the people to be completely subservient to the government in such a fundamental way? Don't you think that creates perverse incentives?

[@biohackerbabes]

Great video!

[@richclarke1523]

I am 80 years old, kayak, run and can eadily ride a bicycle over 100 miles a day for a week .( last summer) I have justcstrted peptide use. Foxo4, mods c, many others. I had a problem with my heart this summer, bp157 tb500 cured that. I think I was only dehydrated though. My dna is R PF4363. Iwas the only one on earth with this 5 years ago. As it is now a family marker, we are all from Norfolk in East Anglia, and are Anglo saxon vikings, with swedish links. I live in Atlantic City, ex canadian paratrooper.

[@Fehr270]

I can see a future, 100 years from no?, where after we stop developing and start deciding, say late 20’s to early 30’s where people get something extra in their annual flue shot that just makes them age slower. It’s possible. Just staying alive shouldn’t be the goal of course. Aging slower means keeping your strength, endurance and cognitive abilities longer. The problem we already have is that we (wealthy country folks) already want to enjoy half or more of our lives not working. Along with much longer expected life expectancy we should increase the expectancy to work much longer. Doubly unfair for those that pass early anyway.

[@travv88]

Hopefully various forms of automation make life easier.

[@Fehr270]

@@travv88 it will and already does. Think of the automated dishwasher and clothes washers our grandmas or great grandmas would have dreamed of. Now more actual paying jobs are and will be automated. This poses a greater challenge to continue earning money farther into the future.

[@ALCALIN26]

I'm very optimistic like You are, but i think Peter it's more realistic. None of the drugs/molecules that You mentioned are far from the expectancy.

[@bob24611]

Would make a good plot for a sci fi movie 😁

[@nazarenoalmiron526]

8:19 sounds like a threat

[@frankiecal3186]

Covid Shot💉: "I'm about to destroy all this man's hope."

[@ok373737]

I believe that AI funding needs more money. Let the AGI solve the aging problem.

[@DrAndrewSteele]

We need both-AI will definitely be important, but we need to do lots of biology experiments to get the data to train the AI!

[@MasKpt]

If we reach superintelligence in the meantime, the human factor in driving scientific research basically becomes obsolete. Which is a good thing (if alignment is properly addressed, that is). @@DrAndrewSteele

[@betzib8021]

Well what I would say is he hasn't done it yet.

[@LiebsterFeind]

Funding is an issue? I'm astonished. Given that the larger than ever population of billionaires globally, many of them who are elderly, it's hard for me to believe there is a funding problem for anti-aging research.

[@DrAndrewSteele]

Almost no billionaires are putting any quantity of money into this, unfortunately. It shocks me too!

[@LiebsterFeind]

I don't know if he's a billionaire or not, I'm pretty sure he has millions, but Charles Hoskinson is building an anti-aging clinic @@DrAndrewSteele Back to your point. So those billionaires we have been reading about doing extreme anti-aging measures, like Bryan Johnson who was getting blood transfusions from his much younger son, aren't doing any funding? WTH? He's obviously worried about dying and he can't be alone. This is truly weird since the fear of death is the ultimate motivator. Has anybody done a deep board member search against the most notable anti-aging companies to see if this is true that the billionaire club isn't doing any funding?

[@DrAndrewSteele]

Yes, it’s absolutely wild! In fact, Bryan blocked me on Twitter when I suggested using some of his $400m to fund anti-aging research… There could of course be stuff I’m not aware of, but from what’s publicly available without going full investigative journalist and based on the relatively small number of extant anti-aging companies, the lack of interest is shocking.

[@user-sc9ch4od5m]

I respect Peter Attia's knowledge and his Podcasts and the questiona he asks his host during the podcast are brilliant. However I feel that he has already damaged his Gut Microbiome and other organs by taking Metformin for a long tenure. Quitting Non Veg , Eggs , GMO, processed foods, Milk, Sugar, Modern Wheat, Rice , Maida , Smoking, Alcohol will surely improve the quality of Life and will ensure a peaceful non dependent death. I have quit them all and I am thriving on five positive millets. They are absolutely non GMO and have no Glutenin. They are Fox Tail Millet, Kodo millet, Little Millet, Barnyard Millet and Browntop Millet. 2023 is also known for the International Year for Millets. In the coming decades modern medicine will be criticised right left and centre for all the damages it has done so far. I am not against Non vegetarian food but unfortunately they are fed GMO foods and the Bio Concentration of Glyphosate and other pectocides in the meats we eat are ignored by many experts.

[@newdata]

a breakthourgh in aging needs a breakthrough in health regulatons. eg FDA needless rules. A big first and easy step is totally deregulate pets health so dogs live to 200 years first. fundings and commercial markets all will come if rules are thrown away

[@vickybiagini8623]

The problem is decaying for those years after fifty. Aging is brutal

[@maxulmer5009]

I'm hoping with the creation of ARPA-H last year that we get the ball moving quicker on this considering all of the great technologies created out of DARPA over the decades. The Biden administration already wants to increase the budget for it by 60-70% for FY 2024 as well.

[@pcpmendonca]

There are many criticisms about the Tame study lol.

[@cliffcastle9808]

What in your opinion is the end game here? Is it to simply develop drugs that allow for a healthier and longer lifespan and prolong the inevitable? Or is it to eventually to create a fountain of youth from which everyone would live forever? And if this is the case, would our planet be able to survive the energy required to sustain a world without death? Are we simply creating a moral dilemma for ourselves?

[@DrAndrewSteele]

Great questions! First, I see ‘prolonging the inevitable’ as a worthwhile goal-if I live to 120 and spend 10 years frail and unwell, that’s better in my opinion than living to 80 with the same 10 years of infirmity at the end. As well as being better for individuals, this would be better for societies, because we could stay economically active for longer while costing health services the same amount. A greater fraction of life lived well seems a good goal to me! And on the population and resource use question, I have made a video on exactly this: kzbin.info/www/bejne/nGK5lmOcjtqNhZo Hope that answers your question!

[@ellies6563]

However, before ensuring people can live that long, it would be prudent to ensure there was a healthy planet available for them to live on. And more work on ethics, as it brings up some very tricky questions. Love your videos, really interesting and this one is especially thought provoking

[@DrAndrewSteele]

Totally agree, in fact I nearly became a climate scientist before deciding I could probably have more impact in aging research! You may already know this but I made a video about this specifically at ageless.link/population and there’s a free chapter of my book online with this and many more ethical questions addressed at ageless.link/ethics And thanks! Really happy to hear you enjoy my videos. :)

[@chrissscottt]

AI will likely have a significant impact on how long we live one way or another I'm guessing.

[@tombenson5957]

Bioreactor-grown mitochondrial transplantation is in my opinion the best shot for a big win.

[@quidnunc01]

Inferences or projections about the future seem only loosely scientifically informed and are often wrong because the devil is in the details. So of course it gets filled in with wishful thinking or over extrapolation of the limits of the current paradigm.

[@pedro.almeida]

I’m more ready to believe someone that sells exercise for longevity, then pharma that sells drugs and dreams, that even if proven to work, will surely be out of price and stock for me. YMMV.

[@amarug]

I'm doing 1g of Taurine a day, I trust in that one 😂😂

[@travv88]

How is that going?

[@amarug]

@@travv88 tbh not noticing anything. just from the data it seems like an interesting and safe enough thing to try long term.

[@greensmoothieparty]

My elderly mother has aged minus 18 years (biological age) during the last 4 years according to the Levine Biological Age Calculator (Yale) based on bloodwork tests. She follows a modified nutritarian diet style. Dr. Fuhrman suggests that healthy nutritarians should likely live from between 97 to 107 years based on his clinical experience. My mom's cousin recently passed away just a few weeks short of her 105th birthday. Her memorial service was held on her birthday and it was truly a celebration of life!

[@vickybiagini8623]

Scientists cant even regrow a small bald spot.

[@fatboydim.7037]

I take what he says with a pinch of salt, being a podcaster he has to fill up air time. This does however remind of Geoffrey Hinton the Godfather of AI. Employed at Google and was under the belief that Super intelligent AI was decades away, and then OpenAI happened. Suddenly he quit Google and began warning us all of the dangers of AGI. Ageing is now on the same s-curve, that world is coming alot sooner then what Peter Attia may what us all to believe. I sit on the side of Sinclair regarding ageing, not Attia.

[@Sonnell]

Well, to be honest, super intelligent AI is not what we have today. It could be decades away, could be a few years... but this is not that one.

[@fatboydim.7037]

@@Sonnell There are alot of people who would disagree with you on that. AGI in 10 months.

[@jibrankhalil4837]

@@Sonnell Of course we don't have Superintelligence today. Duh. However, none of the leading AI experts think superintelligence is decades away. Here is a list of ten: 1. Geoffery Hinton: 10 years 2. Altman/Ilyea: 6 Years 3. Ben Goertzel:

[@Zhdhcjen]

You say Attia is a Podcaster as if that was something bad 😂 Also, you are on the side of the money-hungry scientist who constantly tries to turn his mice-study supplements into pharmaceuticals to drive up the prices on them just for them to turn out to be basically useless? I know I am on the side of a literal MD, who sees patients every day, and has an additional background in engineering and mathematics.

[@fatboydim.7037]

But he doesn't work on the frontline of ageing research ?? and as an MD he hasn't had any training on ageing biology. All he has is what he thinks and the data. @@Zhdhcjen

[@chipcook5346]

What makes a person think that getting extremely old is something to do? Perhaps having a good go of it for seventy years, not dying weak or in pain or out of your mind, perhaps that's what to strive for. A couple of things are at play here. One is that old people are not very much fun to be around. Hopefully, you know some happy old people. I don't, and I know a lot of old people. Do you think that will stop just because of anti-aging drugs? Another is that younger people -- people under fifty -- write them off, no matter how wise or useful they may be. Do you think that will stop just because of anti-aging drugs? Then there's the demographics problem. Already terminal. Is an abrupt extension of life for hundreds of millions such a good goal? The state of demographics is already a bad thing. Most folks expect to stop working in their 60s and then to live another fun fifteen or twenty years. Magically, that is extended another twenty? Or fifty? Or seventy? Do their expectation change with the introduction of these magic elixirs? Don't lie to yourself; you know the expectations will be the same. There are youthful things they may want to do, but work isn't one of them, and there is no cohort of 18 to 65 year olds who wants to support that. Do those working on extreme life extension everyone's life or just the lives of the few people they like? It's great if it's just Lazarus Long & Friends and the universe is a big place. But that's not how societies really work, is it? And if you are cynical, what organizations stand to benefit the most from populations exploding at the back end? And that you felt the need to insert some basic basic math -- do the people who already cannot do 50+70 on the fly really need to stick around that extra 70?

[@DrAndrewSteele]

I’d turn the question around: what makes you think that getting cancer or Alzheimer’s is a good thing? I’m interested in treatments for aging to make people healthier and make their lives better, and the human costs of these diseases, plus the frailty, sight and hearing loss and more that come along with aging, is so large that I’m willing to make some societal adaptations to achieve it! You might enjoy the free chapter of my book on the ethics of treating aging, available at ageless.link/ethics which goes into some detail about the moral questions you’ve posed :)

[@chipcook5346]

@@DrAndrewSteele I hear you and agree. However, I did not say "have some schisse last few years and die poorly." I said having a good go and get out before any of that happens. People are already not equipped to be eighty or ninety. Gene therapy and drugs are not going to change that.

[@BombastusParacelsus]

I like your way of thinking even though it is a little naive.😃

[@victoratanasov9680]

indeed, most is sci-fi. good luck waiting for miracles. focus on squaring the curve

[@karlhungus5554]

Attia's a salesman and opportunist.

[@remismeskas8388]

Steele iz a foool...

[@remismeskas8388]

you are right !

[@skyhigh24]

getting 120 Years old, need to work 95 Years instead of 50 Years(and increasing) now... yeah.. sounds like a terrible idea. Todays Economy isnt build for that... 30year olds living in their Parents Basement cause the cost of Living got so high they cant afford a own House (heck even a own apartment is rather expensive today..). maybe its not like this everywhere in the world, but i hear that quite a lot from people in different Countrys. Since im affected as well here in Germany i really dont think, i would even want to live that long in such a miserable state of living... Before people live to 100 (or longer) we need to figure out some other things in this world, until this happens, living that long would be an option for the Richer side of People who can Afford to do so.

[@RandomGuy-lu1en]

ask any old person if they would want to be 30 again when the tradeoff would be to get out of retirement. Every old person I know of would be very happy about that possibility. And what's terrible (economically) is losing the expertise of skilled workers when they turn 65 ...

[@skyhigh24]

​@@RandomGuy-lu1en Possibly right, but the Tradeoff would be more than just "getting out of retirement". it would be loosing all you have made after 30 and be dropped in TODAYS state of the world. Im working since 16 Years now and save as much money as i can. but with every € i safe the cost gets two to three € higher... i dont know where you live, but here i have that conversation about being younger every now and then with collegues at work. most of the time i hear the opposite of what you say. they wouldnt want to switch with me if they could. Maybe because they not retired now? (many are less than 5years until retirement) And yes, youre right. missing Expertise and Competence is ONE of the bigger Problems, but not THE Biggest. Most of the time this is wanted. I asked my Boss why the "trainees are getting Dumber every year" and they Responded: "if they are to smart they would Educate theirself and leave" Yeah it doesnt sound smart but in general understandable. not everybody can be an CEO, Product Designer or Engeneer, some people need to have the know-how to Produce these Products. with sitting on a PC alone you cant be generating money in some Spaces. After all theres maybe a line somewhere between. but can the Planet really afford people living to 1/3 leave alone 1/2 longer? Theres quite some work to do before people should live for that long

[@RandomGuy-lu1en]

@@skyhigh24 I guess they tell you that because they are not frail yet and don't enjoy their work so they just like the idea of retirement on the horizon. But really old, frail (or generally sick) people would usually trade everything to get their health back. But you're absolutely right, it's time to prepare for such a change. It's still a long way to go and the improvements will be gradually but in the end we will move to an ageless society where it doesn't make a difference if someone is 30 or 130. But I don't worry about the planet, it's not the number of people that's a problem for the enviroment, it's mainly how we generate power and what we use as fuel. And fertility always decreased when live expectancy increaed so far. I guess that will continue and solving ageing won't lead to a huge increase in population.

[@RandomGuy-lu1en]

@@skyhigh24 oh and there's the possibility that your co workers tell you that because they want to convince themselves. And in reality they are absolutely jealous of you for still being young 😆