Why I Don’t Recommend Forgiveness -- A Psychological Analysis

[@Diplomastronaut]

Accountability of the wrongdoer is more important than a victims forgiveness

[@zoecoote3746]

Ohh I am SO loving the comments here. Especially this one.

[@Richualistik]

Abso-freakin-lutely!😊

[@tessarae9127]

Honestly the more time goes by the more convinced I am that a literal psycchopath invented the concept of forgiveness 😅

[@DarkCloudGather]

100%.

[@tiggy4750]

Well said xxx

[@margaretjohnson1401]

Being told to forgive sometimes feels like victim blaming

[@Diarrheagod]

It is. Cuz it’s no one’s right to tell someone else how and when they need to heal. It’s narcissistic to assume everyone is on your timeline.

[@SoullChick]

It’s not telling someone what to do. But your answers might be found in where people talk about their experiences. It’s up to anyone when and how. You’ll get there anyway. Your path,your divine timing. When you are influenced by what others tell you to do there needs to be some work done. You’ll feel what and who to believe and what’s for you. If it doesn’t resonate that’s okay too 🤷🏼‍♀️😊

[@Foden5354]

Theyre programmed a certain way, they dont mean to be bad thats just how they were programmed to be from their own toxic upbringing, in a way they are also the victim, its all programming, its not your parents that are bad, its the programming, separate them from each other (the programming & your parents ) and it will be easier to forgive and see them as broken souls that didnt even have a chance at life due to their terrible upbringing that programmed them in such a way, if they had loving parents they would have been so different to you, they didnt even develop consciousness properly, theyre stuck at a low level of intellect like a prison they cant get out of, I remember being a child and not possessing inner monologue, its why I couldn't do maths equations in my head when i was younger, i would just stare at the person in confusion, wanting them to just tell me the answer, i literally didnt have the mental tools to do anything, I'd imagine many of our parents from those old generations before the internet would be at that level of consciousness, brings meaning to the quote "Forgive them, for they know not what they do". Its sad really, makes you have compassion for them in a way, and this is coming from someone who deals with anger for my parents about how I was raised.

[@Diarrheagod]

@@SoullChick it is. Telling another person to forgive (forget) what they did to you (without them even being willing to acknowledge what they did) IS telling someone else how to feel and basically that their feelings of hurt and possible PTSD isn’t valid. They basically don’t wanna deal with the fact that they hurt you cuz it makes them feel like shit. And they want things to be all hunky dory FOR THEM. Part of the 12 steps when making amends isn’t cuz you need forgiveness from the other person, it’s cuz you’re accepting and acknowledging that you fucked up. Whether that person chooses to forgive has nothing to do with anything. I don’t think it’s someone’s right to ask for forgiveness. People are entitled to feel how they want, and if they want to hold a grudge then so be it but it’s not for anyone else to decide for that person. Otherwise you’re just forcing your world view on that other person which still makes you a controlling asshole and no wonder the other person don’t forgive u 😂

[@micahmanley613]

Forgiveness is for you, not them

[@JCPJCPJCP]

A sincere apology should be a prerequisite for any consideration of forgiveness. Forgiving people who haven't acknowledged their transgressions just gives them license to harm you again.

[@allthe1]

Yes! Absolutely. You can be at peace with what other people did to you, you can heal, you can even tolerate or ignore it, but this is not the same as forgiveness. Forgiveness is the appropriate response to a sincere, heartfelt apology. Every other kind of "forgiveness" is just a lie, it's giving up on oneself.

[@JCPJCPJCP]

Yes, of course. People who carelessly, casually harm other people have mental health issues, "personality problems ," and those problems are deeply rooted, unconsciously motivated. They truly "know not what they do" nor why they do it-- and they don't care. To enable them to continue to harm you makes you a collaborator in your own destruction; it's a suicidal gesture. Edit: I call it "suicide by Other," and I think it's more common than we realize.

[@megan.caroline923]

Right on the money!

[@brailrice]

One’s ability and willingness to forgive someone does not require any act on the part of the individual who caused the harm. It helps if they are truly sorry and remorseful but that is not a necessary requirement for forgiveness. Forgiven someone doesn’t mean you have to ever associate with the person you forgive either.

[@JCPJCPJCP]

@brailrice You make some interesting points. There's more to be said on the subject of forgiveness. Neither of us, and possibly no one, has the final word. For now, I believe what I put in my comments.

[@no0n34ta1l]

When you forgive someone who doesn't deserve it, you are essentially telling yourself your deserve to be treated the way they treated you.

[@ABeautifulEarthForOurChildren]

Forgiveness is an act of self-love. You let go of the anger, resentment and repressed emotions so you can let go of the past and live freely in the present moment. Real forgiveness is an act of love towards yourself. It's about kindly telling yourself that it's enough. Finding out why you have that resentment or anger and then notice that you actually don't need it anymore. You don't need to hold onto the thoughts, trauma and repressed emotions. Yes they once served you but with time anger and repressed emotions transform into physical ailments like reumathoid arthritis and other mostly inflammatory diseases. If you want to heal your physical ailments you need to reheal your mind. It is painful but if at children we don't know how to deal with psychological wounds and repress them. As adults they resurface as trauma and that's when you can act on it and transform those emotions. Gently reopen the wound and let it heal in a correct and healthy way. Anger is burning you from the inside, psychologically and physically. What you're describing is just a shallow psychotherapy thing, like a bandaid that's put over your wound. To be honest I think most of psychotherapy is pretty shallow and doesn't get to the root of the problems because they simply get overlooked or are just not psychology standards. (Tbh, I think modern psychotherapy was created in a way to treat symptoms and keep the patients sick to make money of of them and to control them) That's pretty arrogant and ignorant to say that we can't learn anything from thousands of years of yogic and medicinal research. The medical industry wants to keep the population sick to control them, so they treat your symptoms but not the cause. Like a lack of meaning or belonging. Or a lack of love and family. Which are major necessities for a healthy mind. That's not just with psychological illness but also physical illness. You need to look at your wound yourself and assess it and let it take time to heal. Instead of ripping it open again and again so you can use and act out the anger as energy. Forgiveness doesn't mean you forget. You still remember, you still will get triggered. But it's about letting that deep anger and resentment and trauma from childhood rise up and to feel it in your body to release it. This takes time and practice and is almost never provided by psychologists because it's a spiritual practice and has almost nothing to do with psychology or medical rsearch (even tho there's a lot of research they like to ignore it and gaslight you into thinking that the medical industry is right). Forgiveness is m about feeling and letting yourself feel. To acknowledge your true feeling for the people who hurt you. (In case of my father I felt intense desire to take revenge and then kill him. That's a hard pill to swallow: I want to kill my dad? Yes. Or at least I wanted to as a child and now those feelings are resurfacing. In case of my mother I felt hate and other emotions and even tho the emotion wasnt as strong, it hurt me a lot more than with my father. After all my mother should've put her life on the line for me. But she didn't like me or maybe the stress and fear didn't let her like or love me. Whatever the case: a child without the love of a mother grows up with a lot of pain. Because life without love is pain. Emotions aren't negative, they are a normal reaction in normal humans. But our emotions got hijacked or dismissed and now we're sitting here and don't know shit on how to deal with them. That will be your process: to learn again how to live with ALL OF YOUR EMOTIONS without judging them or putting any thought into them. Your feelings are valuable, you're allowed to feel all of it.

[@kennyhogg5820]

You can decide not to forgive someone, and not be consumed by anger and negativity. It's rather short sighted to say when someone doesn't forgive someone they are now consumed by anger. Give me a break. Sure a person can be consumed by it, but not forgiving doesn't mean that's the automatic outcome.

[@no0n34ta1l]

@@kennyhogg5820 ^

[@2rythm797]

@@kennyhogg5820I know… right!!

[@ItsAllFakeAndGhey]

@@kennyhogg5820well said.

[@lindaschultz7900]

I agree. I will never forgive my father for sexually abusing me and my mother for blaming me.

[@Revengestar]

I am really sorry this happened, I really hope you are safe and away from the predator and his enabler now.

[@lindaschultz7900]

​@@MoonBoy.Thank you!

[@lindaschultz7900]

​​@@RevengestarThank you very much 😊. My mother passed away from breast cancer at the age of 67. My friend did some research and found out my dad is living with a man who owns his own company. My father is 93 years old and his partner is 57 years old 3 years younger than I. I have not spoken to my father in over 30 something years. Why do the nastiest people live forever? I guess "God don't want them and hell's afraid they'll take over."

[@abbiealverez2960]

That is unforgivable I don't blame you but please know you can still have a great life without forgiving them

[@2rythm797]

@@lindaschultz7900😂😂😂 It’s questionable why do they live longer than the one they’re abusing. My dad passed a way from cancer, the cancer marker didn’t even show up. My mother who’s outright abusive still living and healthy. I hope you’re doing well!!

[@TimHoustonSB]

Finally someone saying it out loud. Forgiveness is overrated, even counterproductive, and can often let the abuser right back in to resume the abuse.

[@SoullChick]

No. That is what THEY make of it. Taking your kindness as weak. But forgiving is not for the weak. The fact that people can’t forgive,is exactly the reason they hurt others. Not being able to forgive others means not able to forgive yourself. Which means they still carry shame,guilt and resentment with them. It says more of them and not of you. The healing is in the complex process of forgiving yourself. The saying; ‘You forgive others for you,not for them’ says it all. Being able to do that is the key. If you forgive yourself,and heal,others cannot hurt you anymore. That’s where the karma comes in. Lessons have to be learned. For you,but also for the other. So,let them take your kindness for weakness. You do your work. You don’t have to let them in again. Your ego will test you! ✨

[@deus-x_851]

⁠@@SoullChickNot really, more often than not they hurt others out of personal advantage, not because "they're not able to forgive them", in fact, they often don't care if you forgive them or not I mean, you can keep up the mental gymnastics and forgive your abusers all you want, they still don't care, and they still hurt you, and they're gonna do it again as long as you give them a way in, and they probably live better than you because they spend their days doing whatever they want instead of doing mental gymnastics Personally i've never forgiven anyone who hurt me and i feel and live just fine, just move on and focus on more productive things, like actually improving your life, i'll never understand all this forgiveness nonsense Actually, i do understand it, and it's still nonsense.

[@SoullChick]

@@deus-x_851 In the end it’s not being able to forgive. Ofcourse they have the advantage,I do. We all do. But I’m not taking the advantage. Because I work on me to get past that. The ones who are taking the advantage are the ones who are not able to forgive. You just don’t abuse others when you are okay with yourself. Consciously or not). It’s not about if these people don’t care,they become irrelevant once you reach that point of healing that part in yourself. And than it’s done. Maybe not totally but you’ll notice the difference in you when these situations come around again. Forgiveness is not letting people in again. That’s what most think. It’s about your internal process. That goes way deeper than you would think. Like I said,if you understand yourself,you are capable of understanding others. Which means,you don’t care whether they try to hurt you or whatever. People think forgiving means admitting you’re wrong. It’s not. I said sorry to people who really have hurt me. The funniest part is,consciously observing what happens in such situation,is that they won’t admit truly what THEY did. They don’t even know how to behave. Some even felt like they won,sort of (Ego instead of honesty). I now understand who’s the queen here :-)) Where I would be devastated in the past,I now almost don’t get triggered. It is released. They are not. It doesn’t look like that maybe,but I know how it works. It might take some time,but when the time comes,they’ll know. Let go and let God. I just mind my own 🤍

[@Foden5354]

Theyre programmed a certain way, they dont mean to be bad thats just how they were programmed to be from their own toxic upbringing, its all programming, its not your parents that are bad, its the programming, separate them from each other (the programming & your parents ) and it will be easier to forgive and see them as broken souls that didnt even have a chance at life due to their terrible upbringing that programmed them in such a way, if they had loving parents they would have been so different to you, they didnt even develop consciousness properly, theyre stuck at a low level of intellect like a prison they cant get out of, I remember being a child and not possessing inner monologue, its why I couldn't do maths equations in my head when i was younger, i would just stare at the person in confusion, wanting them to just tell me the answer, i literally didnt have the mental tools to do anything, I'd imagine many of our parents from those old generations before the internet would be at that level of consciousness, brings meaning to the quote "Forgive them, for they know not what they do". Its sad really, makes you have compassion for them in a way, and this is coming from someone who deals with anger for my parents about how I was raised.

[@beyondtheillusion333]

​@@deus-x_851no, you don't understand it. You're deeply confused just like Daniel, and convinced that you're abusers deserve nothing but hell. If you had any "consciousness" ( what I'm gathering is compassion, wisdom) you would realize they already are in hell already and are projecting it on to you...

[@Butterandbacon]

Holding people accountable for their actions takes courage. Forgiveness should never be required in any situation.

[@ABeautifulEarthForOurChildren]

Forgiveness is an act of self-love. You let go of the anger, resentment and repressed emotions so you can let go of the past and live freely in the present moment. Real forgiveness is an act of love towards yourself. It's about kindly telling yourself that it's enough. Finding out why you have that resentment or anger and then notice that you actually don't need it anymore. You don't need to hold onto the thoughts, trauma and repressed emotions. Yes they once served you but with time anger and repressed emotions transform into physical ailments like reumathoid arthritis and other mostly inflammatory diseases. If you want to heal your physical ailments you need to reheal your mind. It is painful but if at children we don't know how to deal with psychological wounds and repress them. As adults they resurface as trauma and that's when you can act on it and transform those emotions. Gently reopen the wound and let it heal in a correct and healthy way. Anger is burning you from the inside, psychologically and physically. What you're describing is just a shallow psychotherapy thing, like a bandaid that's put over your wound. To be honest I think most of psychotherapy is pretty shallow and doesn't get to the root of the problems because they simply get overlooked or are just not psychology standards. (Tbh, I think modern psychotherapy was created in a way to treat symptoms and keep the patients sick to make money of of them and to control them) That's pretty arrogant and ignorant to say that we can't learn anything from thousands of years of yogic and medicinal research. The medical industry wants to keep the population sick to control them, so they treat your symptoms but not the cause. Like a lack of meaning or belonging. Or a lack of love and family. Which are major necessities for a healthy mind. That's not just with psychological illness but also physical illness. You need to look at your wound yourself and assess it and let it take time to heal. Instead of ripping it open again and again so you can use and act out the anger as energy. Forgiveness doesn't mean you forget. You still remember, you still will get triggered. But it's about letting that deep anger and resentment and trauma from childhood rise up and to feel it in your body to release it. This takes time and practice and is almost never provided by psychologists because it's a spiritual practice and has almost nothing to do with psychology or medical rsearch (even tho there's a lot of research they like to ignore it and gaslight you into thinking that the medical industry is right). Forgiveness is m about feeling and letting yourself feel. To acknowledge your true feeling for the people who hurt you. (In case of my father I felt intense desire to take revenge and then kill him. That's a hard pill to swallow: I want to kill my dad? Yes. Or at least I wanted to as a child and now those feelings are resurfacing. In case of my mother I felt hate and other emotions and even tho the emotion wasnt as strong, it hurt me a lot more than with my father. After all my mother should've put her life on the line for me. But she didn't like me or maybe the stress and fear didn't let her like or love me. Whatever the case: a child without the love of a mother grows up with a lot of pain. Because life without love is pain. Emotions aren't negative, they are a normal reaction in normal humans. But our emotions got hijacked or dismissed and now we're sitting here and don't know shit on how to deal with them. That will be your process: to learn again how to live with ALL OF YOUR EMOTIONS without judging them or putting any thought into them. Your feelings are valuable, you're allowed to feel all of it.

[@mentalprograming5365]

@@ABeautifulEarthForOurChildren all facts.. i've learned all of this and now teaching it to my children

[@GuitarMatt]

Agreed! (With the OP person I'm replying to, not the other responder who disagreed with the OP)

[@OneFreeMan17]

@@ABeautifulEarthForOurChildrenCool story bro.

[@Wise2daGame]

I skipped everything you wrote.​@@ABeautifulEarthForOurChildren

[@Jspore-ip5rk]

Forgiveness is one of the most blatant yet overtly neglected method of manipulation in society.

[@Diarrheagod]

I blame religion and their stupid fake story of jesus dying on the cross for everyone’s sins. “Jesus forgave and so should you blah blah blah BLAHSKSJDHDJSJSN”

[@thewhiterabbituk]

Justice first, then forgiveness.

[@zenout3463]

This is absolutely 💯

[@AlejandroRasmussen7]

@@Diarrheagodthis is not rigth, in the bible you first have to repent (ask God for forgiveness or He wont forgive you)

[@Foden5354]

​@@Diarrheagod Theyre programmed a certain way, they dont mean to be bad thats just how they were programmed to be from their own toxic upbringing, its all programming, its not your parents that are bad, its the programming, separate them from each other (the programming & your parents ) and it will be easier to forgive and see them as broken souls that didnt even have a chance at life due to their terrible upbringing that programmed them in such a way, if they had loving parents they would have been so different to you, they didnt even develop consciousness properly, theyre stuck at a low level of intellect like a prison they cant get out of, I remember being a child and not possessing inner monologue, its why I couldn't do maths equations in my head when i was younger, i would just stare at the person in confusion, wanting them to just tell me the answer, i literally didnt have the mental tools to do anything, I'd imagine many of our parents from those old generations before the internet would be at that level of consciousness, brings meaning to the quote "Forgive them, for they know not what they do". Its sad really, makes you have compassion for them in a way, and this is coming from someone who deals with anger for my parents about how I was raised.

[@fasthorserider1733]

Amen. If "we have to" forgive someone, it is not an act of compassion, it is an act of survival.

[@ABeautifulEarthForOurChildren]

Forgiveness is an act of self-love. You let go of the anger inside you, so you can finally be free of the past. Real forgiveness is an act of love towards yourself. It's about kindly telling yourself that it's enough. Finding out why you have that resentment or anger and then notice that you actually don't need it anymore. You don't need to hold onto the thoughts, trauma and repressed emotions. Yes they once served you but with time anger and repressed emotions transform into physical ailments like reumathoid arthritis and other mostly inflammatory diseases. If you want to heal your physical ailments you need to reheal your mind. It is painful but if at children we don't know how to deal with psychological wounds and repress them. As adults they resurface as trauma and that's when you can act on it and transform those emotions. Gently reopen the wound and let it heal in a correct and healthy way. Anger is burning you from the inside, psychologically and physically. What you're describing is just a shallow psychotherapy thing, like a bandaid that's put over your wound. To be honest I think most of psychotherapy is pretty shallow and doesn't get to the root of the problems because they simply get overlooked or are just not psychology standards. (Tbh, I think modern psychotherapy was created in a way to treat symptoms and keep the patients sick to make money of of them and to control them) That's pretty arrogant and ignorant to say that we can't learn anything from thousands of years of yogic and medicinal research. The medical industry wants to keep the population sick to control them, so they treat your symptoms but not the cause. Like a lack of meaning or belonging. Or a lack of love and family. Which are major necessities for a healthy mind. That's not just with psychological illness but also physical illness. You need to look at your wound yourself and assess it and let it take time to heal. Instead of ripping it open again and again so you can use and act out the anger as energy. Forgiveness doesn't mean you forget. You still remember, you still will get triggered. But it's about letting that deep anger and resentment and trauma from childhood rise up and to feel it in your body to release it. This takes time and practice and is almost never provided by psychologists because it's a spiritual practice and has almost nothing to do with psychology or medical rsearch (even tho there's a lot of research they like to ignore it and gaslight you into thinking that the medical industry is right). Forgiveness is m about feeling and letting yourself feel. To acknowledge your true feeling for the people who hurt you. (In case of my father I felt intense desire to take revenge and then kill him. That's a hard pill to swallow: I want to kill my dad? Yes. Or at least I wanted to as a child and now those feelings are resurfacing. In case of my mother I felt hate and other emotions and even tho the emotion wasnt as strong, it hurt me a lot more than with my father. After all my mother should've put her life on the line for me. But she didn't like me or maybe the stress and fear didn't let her like or love me. Whatever the case: a child without the love of a mother grows up with a lot of pain. Because life without love is pain. Emotions aren't negative, they are a normal reaction in normal humans. But our emotions got hijacked or dismissed and now we're sitting here and don't know shit on how to deal with them. That will be your process: to learn again how to live with ALL OF YOUR EMOTIONS without judging them or putting any thought into them. Your feelings are valuable, you're allowed to feel all of it.

[@maducrutz9384]

​@@ABeautifulEarthForOurChildrenall that to say nothing

[@jemportal4166]

Very well said @fasthorserider1733

[@ABeautifulEarthForOurChildren]

@@jemportal4166 read my comment, he's wrong

[@Nick_Taylor.]

Yes! Or, an act of obedience

[@Wanderlust246]

I always wondered WHY it’s so necessary to “forgive”. “It’s not for them, it’s for you”, i think was always told. NOPE. My NON-forgiveness is what helped me break off toxic relationships in my family. I’m so tired of useless, worthless and basically “harmful” ADVICE. THIS man speaks truth!!!

[@opticalraven1935]

You were reconciling, not forgiving. Big difference. Forgiveness doesn't mean you go back to people who hurt you. You are letting go of negative emotions that continues the path of hatred.

[@MayBlake_Channel]

Exactly! Those people essentially advocate for you to supress your anger and hurt and to trick yourself into believing you're at peace

[@xenatron9056]

@@opticalraven1935 How offended can one get when an apology is in order, but say "I forgive you" instead..... that is a real killer line. Them doubling down on you miraculously dries up any milk of human kindness you had toward them, making forgiveness dam near impossible... and certainly undeserving. You know what you are dealing with ... keep a distance from these vampires.

[@death-from-above05]

but when i forgive them i still feel the same, the negative emotions still stay for me, the only person who feels better is my abuser ​@@opticalraven1935

[@melodious5682]

@@opticalraven1935 If you're still on "letting go" like it's something you have to do on purpose then you haven't done the work to actually improve your life, where the ~ negative emotions ~ tell you what you need. The feelings will be done when you're done.

[@ChildrensRightsFirst947]

I'm convinced the line "Forgive and forget" came from an abusive person. I've never figured out how to forgive people who wronged me horribly (and weren't sorry for it), unless I go into denial and downplay how bad their behavior was. But that's not even real forgiveness.

[@JohnSmith-ks5xw]

Try acceptance instead. It doesn't mean you agree with what they did. It just means that you accept that they did it. And that their behavior had nothing to do with you, and everything to do with them.

[@ReginaMcNeish]

“Forgive and forget” along with “ honor, thy mother and thy father” and many other phrases have been corrupted by religion. They NOW do not mean what they originally were meant to mean. Forgiven, forget, actually means to give forward your negative emotion because if you hold onto them, it will hold you back. You’re not supposed to forgive literally the person that did something to you it’s letting go of the emotion and forgetting, the emotion because if you keep holding onto the emotion, you will never move forward. It has nothing to do with the person that wronged you. That is just a perversion of the phrase by religious people who were taught by corrupt people who didn’t understand The meaning THEMSELVES. and there are many other phrases like this. It is damaging and has ruined a lot of peoples lives. We do this all the time take the world “Bad” it is now flip around to mean good. Ex: “that girl is Bad” means NOW she is extremely attractive and desired. It’s now morphed into “Baddie” and is a self proclamation by the individual in a way of bragging of how amazing they are or the person calling them that perceives them to be. This happens with many words like the word “Nice” it meant stupid in old English. Look it up… The whole “Honor thy mother and thy father” is even worse. It has nothing to do with your literal mother and literal father that gave birth to you. That is yet another serious perversion of Christianity. This whole phrase runs extremely deep and is primarily about honoring YOURSELF. Seems like a stretch but that’s because the religion has omitted the importance of gender in which WE ALL HAVE and is EVERYWHERE (thus why many other languages still use gender in their language) and it’s now perverted.

[@EnglishAaron]

​@@ReginaMcNeishyou actually did hit home what I felt as a child, there's even a line of text in the scripture that says to turn away from those who keep wronging you. You should be open to reconcile with them if they truly mean to and are doing their best to make amends, but don't do so to someone who wrongs you repeatedly the exact same way. There are people who to this day pretend that they did nothing to me, that they didn't constantly remind me of loss or just openly talking to me about what they felt or were thinking. I got told that it was impossible for anyone to move on that fast, it's called ADHD things are intense then they level out on their own afterwards. You end up on a non linear path because your brains executive functioning is not up to par with the average person so it takes awhile but it helps to have people who are able to control themselves to respectfully advocate for themselves to inform you that you upset them when you ask for support because of also having an anxiety condition along with trauma due to how your parents constantly do sneaky things when you stop being vigilant. I learned that I should have just accepted it and gone to a homeless shelter, still doesn't excuse the insensitivity from people who I called friends for ten years that I didn't hide my situation from. Their conscience troubles them but they are too stubborn to face it, I hear about how they think people who aren't me are me because they are anonymous. I've heard about the effort they have had to go through to justify to themselves, I have already apologized for my own actions... just waiting for them to grow up and do the same

[@serumser1]

Thanks for sharing@@ReginaMcNeish Happy new year!

[@Diarrheagod]

@@ReginaMcNeishwell said

[@Ilamarea]

Forgiving means pretending. There's no point living a lie. Do not forget. Do not pretend. Just don't give them any more power.

[@ChildrensRightsFirst947]

I think I could forgive anyone for anything if I knew they were truly sorry for all of it and changed their ways. So far the worst people I've known haven't done either.

[@LoveJungle420]

No it doesn't. Forgiveness is not pretending or lying. Forgiveness is releasing the story, that you have been telling yourself, about what happened to you. The story which you have been reliving in your mind, day in and day out, that has been causing you intense suffering. This is what forgiveness is trying to release. It does not make what was done to you okay. It makes you okay with what was done to you. You no longer torture yourself for what was done to you. THAT is forgiveness.

[@tahsina.c]

​@@LoveJungle420exactly. It's not letting people dictate your pain anymore, its letting it go and moving on. But it's not for the weak, it's a lot like grief, you gotta get the anger out and go thru it before you get to that point, if you dont let yourself feel the pain then it will be pretending. People forgive too easily, then they dismiss the notion of forgiveness because they did it with too much haste and did not do it from their heart

[@LoveJungle420]

@@erdelegy Well in that case, you would just have to forgive yourself for not being perfect or christ-like. Forgiveness can always find a way back in.

[@BB-lf7cv]

Exactly!

[@morganptah3266]

Ya dun’t have to forgive. The deeper work is transforming the bitterness into a life well lived.

[@that_heretic]

💯

[@rounellslabber3460]

So true

[@banzobeans]

Many would describe transforming the bitterness as an integral part or even the goal of forgiveness. The problem with this video is the lack of definition of terms.

[@frenesisalvaje2129]

Love your sentence!!!

[@xenatron9056]

so true, I can say I forgive, but God secretly knows that I want justice and he knows that I don't fully forgive. He knows I know that I run the risk of judgement myself, but I am all good with that... judge away. It would never even enter into my mind some of the things my adult siblings have perpetrated onto me and yes it is my life's work to unravel and untangle and smooth it all out... but not ever going to forgive the fact that they left me with all the work to do, cleaning up all their mess they left behind as they 'moved on'. I feel like Cinderella only I don't believe in fairy tales.

[@taketheredpill1452]

Spot on. Forgiveness means we are returning to our denial about them. Maintaining our rejection of them is the sign of recovery...

[@PerrySkyePhoenix]

I agree with this. Very well said.

[@taketheredpill1452]

@@PerrySkyePhoenix- :)

[@BUBBLESPOGO]

It is also a sign of showing ourselves self-respect.

[@Joy-op3je]

I realized yesterday that you shouldn’t be nice to people, just respectful of them. The only person I need to be nice to is myself, my future self to keep going and my past self to continue healing. I also do not feel peace without justice, and many times you do not get justice, time flies and people forget you, meanwhile you’re just sitting there traumatized. That’s why I say only be nice to yourself.

[@tribals12]

Watch Dr Robert glover he turned me from nice guy to no more nice guy but more authentic to say NO & assertion etc for myself

[@theroamingcanuck49]

So true. People forget you rather quickly.

[@Fashowitit007]

Facts upon facts. The realest shit i heard all my life. Nice guys finish last.

[@ultraparadoxical7610]

Sometimes forgiveness is the right thing. Sometimes it isn’t.

[@karadiberlino]

Agreed! ❤😂💯

[@newt4050]

Agreed

[@ponikoTV]

INDEED, IT DEPENDS THE CONTEXT!!! ❤️

[@Flowergirl222]

Forgiveness is irrelevant in my world. I don’t need to forgive my parents’ evil behaviors that destroyed my life for a long time. I cut them off and made them insignificant. Agree with this video wholeheartedly.

[@LoveJungle420]

Why do people think forgiveness is giving a pass to someone's evil behaviors? That's not at all what forgiveness is. You can cut someone out of your life and also still forgive them. Forgiveness is just letting go of a mental and emotional position that you have been holding onto, that has been causing you intense psychological suffering. The act of forgiveness is just releasing or reframing a psychological story you have been telling yourself, about what happened to you, that has caused you intense suffering.

[@unconsciouscreator3012]

@@LoveJungle420 understand and accept why, but don't forgive

[@bobbyologun1517]

potato potahto@@LoveJungle420

[@suchaleelim]

I forgive them but I no longer allow them to be near me or hurt me.

[@exillens]

​@@LoveJungle420You redefined what forgiveness means in order to give a woo woo lecture

[@mugiwaraboshi37]

I do believe in forgiveness, but forgiveness without justice is just placation. A majority of people prefer to “get along” rather than work anything out, leaving them with unresolved issues that come out in other areas of their life.

[@BB-lf7cv]

I agree!

[@heavenlygrandma9992]

Forgiving/letting go of negative emotions has nothing to do with justice. And if you are dealing with a narcissist, you'll never have justice, so what then, you hang on to all those negative feelings about them? Negative emotions manifest into physical illness. Been there done that, almost died (3 times). Forgive, Let it go. If whoever wanted to work things out, they would. It takes two to do that. Sometimes all you can do is forgive and move on and don't look back.

[@mugiwaraboshi37]

@@heavenlygrandma9992 I think we’re operating with different definitions of forgiveness. I can let go of negative emotions just fine. But I know a lot of people who equate forgiveness with “don’t ever bring up the past and let people get away with things to keep the peace.” Tends not to turn out very well in my experience.

[@heavenlygrandma9992]

@@mugiwaraboshi37 This is my definition. forgive verb 1. stop feeling angry or resentful towards (someone) for an offense, flaw, or mistake Example: I'll never forgive David for the way he treated her Forgiving is for YOU, not the other person. It's so you don't hold on to the trauma and get sick. IT doesn't affect the other person if someone forgives them or not. Most people use forgiveness (especially church people) in a way that means take them back. Like a cheating husband. That is NOT what I am talking about. I am talking about a person forgiving and not holding on to negative emotion so they can be FREE. I know what negative emotions over a long period of time can do to a person.. I ended up with acute myeloid leukemia. Disabled, going on 14 years now. All I am saying is forgiving is nothing more than letting go of negative emotions and not dwelling on it so you don't get sick like I did. Feel the pain, work through the pain, and move past the pain and feeling the emotions (forgiving). Like someone who owes you money. When you forgive the debt, you let it go and don't begrudge them for not pay it. That doesn't mean you have to loan them anymore money. When you forgive, you are protecting your well being and not giving power to the other person.

[@mugiwaraboshi37]

@@heavenlygrandma9992 Okay cool. Not what I was talking about.

[@nahbeu]

“it’s their first time living.” so IS mine.

[@lorir5728]

Oprah started the whole forgiveness thing. She would say you have to do it every day. There was a lady I had issues with. It tormemted me forever. She will never understand she hurt me and still kept being a jerk. When I finally said I'm not forgiving her I felt so so so much better. Weight off my shoulders. Screw Oprah and her pseudo psychology.

[@darz_k.]

hahaa I like that.

[@neortik7]

When you forgive someone you stop thinking of that person forgiving is really important yes it's hard. I don't want to forgive my father but i still do Some people that did harm to you forgot about it but you still continue to hate that person. You are doing you self harm Matthew 18 24And when he had begun to settle accounts, one was brought to him who owed him ten thousand talents. 25But as he was not able to pay, his master commanded that he be sold, with his wife and children and all that he had, and that payment be made. 26The servant therefore fell down before him, saying, ‘Master, have patience with me, and I will pay you all.’ 27Then the master of that servant was moved with compassion, released him, and forgave him the debt. 28“But that servant went out and found one of his fellow servants who owed him a hundred denarii; and he laid hands on him and took him by the throat, saying, ‘Pay me what you owe!’ 29So his fellow servant fell down at his feet and begged him, saying, ‘Have patience with me, and I will pay you all.’ 30And he would not, but went and threw him into prison till he should pay the debt. 31So when his fellow servants saw what had been done, they were very grieved, and came and told their master all that had been done. 32Then his master, after he had called him, said to him, ‘You wicked servant! I forgave you all that debt because you begged me. 33Should you not also have had compassion on your fellow servant, just as I had pity on you?’ 34And his master was angry, and delivered him to the torturers until he should pay all that was due to him. 35“So My heavenly Father also will do to you if each of you, from his heart, does not forgive his brother his trespasses.”

[@missmack2328]

Yup!!!

[@S-terNichols]

Pedoz and Narc abusers are always seekign to manipulate with forgiveness and God not forgiving us.

[@crystalinedreams6039]

trust me oprah didn't start it, she copied it, it has been around longer than she has. i am by no means defending her, to me she is an awful person but nope you can credit others for that idiocy.

[@siirifani4ever]

You’re the first person I’ve heard say that feeling bitter is more than okay. That’s really good advice. All I’ve heard is that it will destroy you etc and I’ve become scared of my bitter feelings because of that. Now I can look at it from a different perspective: it’s a token of the respect that I have for myself and why I won’t allow any more abuse. And in the future once I’m farther in my healing process the bitterness will slowly fade away

[@JJ-zp6xf]

Thank you for pointing this out.

[@Diarrheagod]

I feel like having anger is a sign of healing. You obviously don’t want to live there forever cuz you need to heal and move past it, but anger is a sign of expressing those feelings

[@Banoffeenyx]

exactly!

[@tnt01]

100%

[@ameera.abubakr]

I never understood why people shame us for feeling bitter. How is it wrong to feel wronged when you were wronged?

[@cucumberwhale]

At my brother's graduation mum said she's so lucky because we were such easy children to her, that we practically raised ourselves. Fuming with anger I snapped back at her "yeah because you didn't". 💀

[@Foden5354]

damn always wanted to say that to my own mother, curious what happened after that? Did she ever gain awareness of how bad a mother she was from you? My mother is completely oblivious

[@cucumberwhale]

@@Foden5354 It washed over her like water over a ducks back haha. Inside who knows, maybe she felt a slight but she didn't really show and the conversation didn't continue. And never has. She's still living her own personal hell from her mom and I think she'll need to understand herself first.

[@pjj.5649]

TOUCHE' CALL A THING A THING!!!!

[@laniakeas92]

I forgave MYSELF for inability to protect myself, I was just a surviving child. And this thought freed me. I never forgave my abusing mother, I just moved on.

[@trinleywangmo]

Love is truly blind... when I found out about the Harlow Monkey experiments at college, it made me cry. I was a late bloomer and didn't go until my 30s. It still took two more decades to figure out my ability to forgive her... shows who I really am. And her ability to betray me, shows who she really is. So, I don't forgive her. She likes what she's done (she told me so!) and what's to forgive? Just walk away and be glad you're still alive.

[@CircmcisionIsChi1dAbus3]

how have you empowered yourself to no longer revert to those positions of the scared child? it usually involves finding your version of strength and feeling strong. its feeling weak and continuing to feel weak that usually does the most damage to men in adulthood, criminal charges when you finally fight back and take out decades of harm out on someone who disrespected you.

[@laniakeas92]

@CircumcisionIsChildAbuse years of psychotherapy+my own base of accumulated psychological knowledge definitely helped. I'm my own parent now, this spot is not missing so I don't revert to that position of a scared child anymore.

[@sanandoelalma.3027]

you have nothing to forgive to yourself, because you sure did what you need to survive... so, start recognizing and congratulating yourself for being strong and smart enough, even when you are too young

[@bobbyologun1517]

amen

[@cynthiadrolshagen4144]

I couldn't forgive my parents when a child. As an adult, I revealed to my mother, who was in the intensive care unit at the time, that I was hurt by her behavior as a child. She responded in a very loving way that she was sorry. At that moment, my hurt and anger began to change. As time went on, she continued to apologize which changed everthing. Her love was greater than whatever made her such an angry person. And it changed me in that I saw HER pain that made her a mean, vindictive person. I was the only one in my family of 6 that was able to connect to her humanity. And the only one who was able to have peace and move on.

[@jolesliewhitten6545]

My narcissistic husband abused me for decades. I left him. I have asked God to help me forgive him. It’s never happened. I just choose to FORGET that cruel man.

[@JF59122]

I hope you are doing well now! ❤

[@marciebaker9816]

That's another lie from the Christianity cult

[@Abdiel_BZ]

Matthew 6:14-16 New King James Version 14 “For if you forgive men their trespasses, your heavenly Father will also forgive you. 15 But if you do not forgive men their trespasses, neither will your Father forgive your trespasses.

[@gofasofrimus]

“You’re a brave person NOT to forgive” absolutely wrecked me

[@xenatron9056]

I remember screaming at God one night that I don't care if I go to hell, I am not going to forgive what they have done. I refuse to validate the acts done. I will not. You will not, so neither will I. It was almost like He smiled at me for the first time in my life and said... well done!!!! It changed my life, now I dish out forgiveness with discrimination and discernment.

[@lindaschultz7900]

Are you still a wreck? God help you.

[@rumpeldumpel675]

@@xenatron9056 I absolute love this comment. Your fierceness is inspiring. For what it's worth, from one internet stranger to another, well done.

[@Unkown242]

​@@xenatron9056 I don't think forgiveness is about accepting what someone did is right. Ofcorse it's wrong that's why we are even at this stage of thinking to forgive or not. I think forgiveness is more for our own selves. It's just accepting that life happened; and to accept that it happened and we need to move on because in present we can be better.

[@xenatron9056]

@@Unkown242 if what they did was right, forgiveness would not be necessary.

[@veganandlovingit]

As a helpless much younger child living in a family of selfish bullies, your only choice to survive is to forgive and be nice. Unfortunately, you become that person and it becomes a way of living, and you remain a friendly forgiving doormat for everyone you meet.

[@RawOlympia]

Yeah, a survival mechanism

[@deboracopeland4795]

Yes unfortunately that is so true

[@irishouston4103]

Whew.... this.....

[@H0kram]

​@@deboracopeland4795I don't think it's unfortunate, adaptation is the trait that made it possible for us humans to be there and for you and I to talk. That beig said, the good news is that one can adapt again and again and again in one's life : it doesn't have to be like that all the way, at all. :) a preserved kind soul, able to protect itself, is possible.

[@tiabiamama]

The biggest mistake I have ever made in my entire life was to "forgive" my mom for destroying me constantly, abandoning me, ignoring me, lying to me, gaslighting me, as she just moved on from me to destroying my daughter's life as well.

[@ratdog6317]

this seems to be a common occurrence, many people do it because they expect it to heal them and then it only ends up causing more problems

[@IvarEriksson83]

Why did you allow her to negatively impact your daughter’s life? Don’t you have any responsibility to ensure your daughter’s safety?

[@goldden1427]

I'm going through the same right now with my mother who gaslight and even try to poison me all because of a narcissistic community and slumlord

[@bobbyologun1517]

socially normalise parental abuse it takes guys to go no contact believe me@@IvarEriksson83

[@galaxy98765]

Don't let her near your daughter ever!

[@stephbas70]

I totally agree with you 💗 Some things are not forgivable, and it's unethical towards oneself to forgive in some cases

[@pavlos8844]

If you forgive some things jt simply means you don't value yourself.

[@irishouston4103]

This....

[@infinityexpression5519]

´Líke when Alphabet Agencies infect holy people with genetic weaponry....God has a blindspot.

[@xenatron9056]

Jesus might forgive, but God DOESN"T.

[@tannislintz1124]

@@xenatron9056 But did Jesus forgive the unrepentant? Did he say forgive Judas, who actually did feel regret immediately?

[@HG-oy1im]

“Your risk losing yourself” thank you this helped me understand forgiveness a bit better. I’m trying to understand why I’m struggling to forgive family, and the pressure is intense.

[@hiya1399]

"not forgiving my parents is the thing that saved my life" 💯

[@GN315-pe6ul]

Yes.

[@delia_watercolors]

That's very moving. Great quote!

[@martefact]

Boom

[@aliray7833]

Worst advice ever it poisons your soul

[@edk497]

People interpreting forgiveness as staying with ignorance or arrogance it's just not true. Forgiveness does not mean accepting one's actions. Jesus said forgive them because they know not what they do. You can say forgive them, because they are insane. That way the same insanity or anger I'm free from. Does not mean I want to be with them.

[@tehgees]

“Sorry” is just a word. If someone wronged you it’s up to them to make you forgive them with “actions.” Not sit back and do nothing as if you were never wronged. It’s up to them to put the pieces back together, not you!

[@EnglishAaron]

Works unless you pushed them through a system that crippled them into being literally incapable, then you got revenge and can/should absolve them if you want to go by that

[@Zetos]

Not necessarily. Sorry can be a powerful word, depending on who it's coming from. You can't hold a person hostage to what they did until they "prove" themselves.

[@tehgees]

@@Zetos People I’ve done wrong I prove to them that I will never do it again! Not sit back and act like I didn’t do nothing…but that’s just me.

[@BB-lf7cv]

I agree!

[@Sarah-with-an-H]

If I got paid every time my mom apologized for going bro a rage I would be so poor

[@sonder2874]

My grandma used to tell me how she had once seen an interview of a woman who said she forgived the man who brutally tortured and killed her husband. My grandma used to praise this woman for how kind and forgiving she was (my grandma was catholic, go figure) and even as a child I thought this was so strange and disrespectful to her husband. In my eyes that woman wanted either to be seen as good and virtuous, or was unable to mentally deal with the horrific murder of her spouse. I feel like forgiving is just another way to let your abusers off easy, and they don’t deserve that. Forgiveness should be reserved for the people that actually care about us and have successfully changed their ways (with limitations to how bad they hurt you of course), it should not be given out freely. Anyway good video, slaying as always Daniel

[@Apricot90]

I seriously always underestimate the idiocy and foolishness of people and think everyone has the intellectual capacity to know what forgiveness is really about and who it really benefits! I can't with people anymore.. I lost all hope and interest.

[@sonder2874]

@@Apricot90 the older I get the more disappointed I get… when I was young I thought that people’s foolishness would make more sense once I became an adult myself. Oh how wrong I was.

[@dry5555]

"Forgiveness should be reserved for the people that actually care about us and have successfully changed their ways (with limitations to how bad they hurt you of course), it should not be given out freely." I agree. But I still believe the person/people need to acknowledge and show remorse about what they did, too.

[@lillianbarker4292]

I think that “forgiveness” is really denial and very Catholic. Of course, focusing on the murderer would be hellish, so she got positive attention for claiming to forgive while in truth she wanted to forget.

[@lillianbarker4292]

I think that “forgiveness” is really denial and very Catholic. Of course, focusing on the murderer would be hellish, so she got positive attention for claiming to forgive while in truth she wanted to forget.

[@siilver1]

If you are watching this, Daniel, THANK YOU SO MUCH for honouring my bitterness! I never perceived "bitterness" to be a respectful part of healing. Just the echoes of the world that "OH, YOU ARE MISERABLE BECAUSE YOU ARE BITTER AND A BITTER PERSON!" Thank you for THIS! I will now NOT bash myself for always being bitterness but take pride in the fact that i am even feeling it in the 1st place and honour myself for going through the painful healing process♥️ God Bless you soul♥️

[@dmackler58]

You're welcome :)

[@meganlangreck2488]

Hallelujah. It is very reassuring to hear you say this. The forgiveness $%^& does a lot of harm, especially when it is pushed or coerced.

[@xenatron9056]

I find, forgive or God will not forgive you a pretty strong co-ercion... keeping us gaslit FOREVER.

[@tannislintz1124]

on victims of abuse

[@christineyeong]

👏 Fk forgiveness. The worst part of therapy is being forced to forgive and empathise with parents or an ex, when they would never ever do the same, or even know what empathy is. It’s like why do we have to do all this “work”? Where is the justice for us? Society just wants people to stay silent and fit in with all the positive/polished people.

[@Octavian2]

You shouldn't be forced to do anything. If you have to forgive you have to mean it.

[@dontbelongherefromanother]

They always place the burden of forgiveness on the victim, making it a big deal, where the abuser goes unscathed and overlooked.

[@christineyeong]

@@Octavian2 I just mean it was like a box to check off on the therapy tasks. But it’s not a linear thing where you forgive once and that’s it, especially if they cause you ongoing stress.

[@dakotatahran4877]

Empathizing with others isn't work though. Once you learn how it's actually quite liberating. Understanding where a vicious ex might have been coming from is really helpful. Why do you consider it work?

[@christineyeong]

@@dakotatahran4877 understanding someone’s background only gives us a clearer picture but does nothing to stop their ongoing behaviour. Stressful toxic immature parents who continue to disrespect you by not understanding boundaries or emotions, or seeing you as an individual just have no clue. They will just continue as they are when they are the ones who should be doing all this “work”, not the ones who are actually in therapy because of them.

[@cledosliop4175]

I think you really hit the point, and based on my personal experiences, what we actually need is inner peace, not some superficial ‘forgiveness. If someone can really get over their past trauma, then that’s great. I feel happy for them. But if they can’t do it, then no need to force them to. When forgiveness becomes an obligation, it turns toxic.

[@Octavian2]

Superficial anything isn't beneficial, not just forgiveness. So it's sort of a moot point in the overall scheme of it.

[@moonstar9101]

As someone who has been on the receiving end of narcissistic abuse, I like this! No. Don’t forgive. And certainly don’t forget. Ditch them out of your life, learn to see the signs of any future BS and move on.

[@Earl_E_Burd]

Check for fleas, as well

[@notmyname3681]

​​@josephmartin5483 'saving' a relationship with a narcissist is a death sentence, either literally or psychologically/emotionally. I made that mistake, of forgiving my narc ex over and over because I loved her and she used it to destroy me. Fk that. Get out, stay out. Never forgive them. Forgive yourself, and eventually let go of the anger.

[@GOOF-AID]

​​​@@notmyname3681Yup, it's all to destroy you. I never neccessarily forgave the narc as the on/off again cycles repeated. I'd fuss and then ignore things like they never happened. I began to play along, started purposely pissing him off, half wasn't even on purpose bc he knew I was a strong person so that alone always had him so jealous and on edge already. I just upped the ante. But I played along to keep him distracted while I secretly got a new job, relocated and disappeared for good. All the damage they do, they don't apologize, give no 'closure' (even tho the closure is how they treated you) and will never change but we have to forgive them? No. But I am healing, I've let the anger go and forgive MYSELF for putting up & playing into that mess.

[@bmanagement4657]

Fantastic video. Ive gone no contact with my entire family. I tried respectfully confronting them as an adult, and im as dismissed as i was as a child. Ill forgive people when and if they ever ask for it. But if they refuse to admit they made a mistake there will never be reconciliation. I accept my anger and hatred of my family as part of my healing.

[@musicmamma]

Well said!! I feel the same way!!

[@peacedujour]

Thank you so much for this video. I have been trying to forgive my parents for years! I am 65! I keep telling myself, I forgive them, but in my heart it all keeps coming back. Now, I live here with my 82 year old mother, in the middle of nowhere on a small piece of land and I can't leave her. She forced me to live a lie my whole life, all of us kids. She has never acknowledged it or apologized, even though everyone in the world thinks she's a saint. It's a sad story. And I'm trying to grow. Thank you again, I don't have to forgive. That's such a relief!

[@RawOlympia]

It sounds like a Faulkner novel, the little piece of land in the largess of nowhere, this unforgiveable presence getting carte blanche to abuse ...

[@Ephesians-xt4xc]

Wow, I identify with your story. I'm 61, male who grew up in a very dysfunctional house with absent father, alcoholic mom, abusive older brother and in a bad neighborhood. Even though I believe in God strongly, I find it hard to forgive how I was treated growing up. It has damaged me psychologically and caused me to have addictions in my own life, causing me to avoid having kids of my own because I equate family to pain and drama. All I ever wanted was peace and no drama in my life.

[@planejanedownunder]

I hear you. Similar age too. I was forced into forgiveness/reconciliation repeatedly. Legally forced to marry & had 4 kids. I was never well enough or supported & any ask for help or even teaching parenting skills resulted in blame/shame. So, while I wasn’t the worst nightmare mum & was (mostly) able to keep my kids from my birth family, I will always have the burden of having failed my kids because I was set up to fail by forced forgiveness. It’s just even lonelier and sadder having tried and failed than living alone and having time to think and feel and heal as I finally do.

[@darkraft1020]

One thing I know is, that there is a God. That there is something more. What I flip between is; I am here to be punished, or am i here to overcome a difficult road for my own betterment. The only thing for certain is that I am meant to suffer.

[@dannacollins2520]

But in this u inverse we don't get an easy ride, do we?

[@liz-xi3gz]

I have a similar situation i’m 16.. I’m wondering if this is okay to ask don’t feel pressured to, but do you regret not having any kids? I’m scared of turning out like my parents, I’m afraid of falling in love and I reject love, and i’m avoidant with people in general I have no friends..

[@youngmaster2482]

Objective fact, the family fell apart when the scapegoat left. They need to first discredit a vessel, then proceed to offload all dysfunction, hate, blame, etc. They rebrand themselves as genuinely good people, a normal family. They tell everyone, "Our heart is too big, we're just stuck with that lunatic." All of this was staged as before you were born, they decided which one would be the sacrifice. These are evil people.

[@IMMORTICALITY]

Thank you

[@mschoy1597]

Yup! Well said.

[@jrb4347]

Forgiveness can be soooo toxic it kept me in so many bad relationships. I finally asked my priest and he asked if they said sorry, I said no. He asked, why would you forgive someone who hasn’t shown contrition, would you open the door to the devil? My life is a lot saner and nicer now

[@IamAnson777]

This is very good

[@opticalraven1935]

You sought reconciliation and believed a warped view of forgiveness. I blame Disney.

[@Andypandieful]

To be given any forgiveness is truly a gift to CHANGE. If a parent can’t see that and embrace CHANGE then , NO!

[@21stCenturyRasselas]

Forgiving can be viewed as dishonoring the young child who was hurt.

[@cibertronx]

Some behaviours are unforgivable. Period.

[@prorev4293]

I grew up in a religious household and society. What boiled my blood the most was that everyone, literally everyone, considered merely confronting your parents huge insolence. All of them are brainwashed by religion and my parents and many other parents ofc used religion in their favor. It made them feel invincible, that they were never wrong. I feel bad for the kids who were abused due to this. Like my dear friend, the guy unironically rationalizes his parents' behavior, puts all the blame on himself, and despite subconsciously acknowledging that that's wrong, still never dares to defy because of his fear of "hell". You make me feel liberated. You make me feel heard. I will always spread our message, thank you.

[@fihtah8243]

Let me guess, islam?

[@fihtah8243]

@@silly1-fj6wg to be Frank I don’t like ex-muslims. and I don’t hate Islam. I believe people are too gullible and when they figure out they have been following in the path of their parents blindly, they rather than ponder over their own faults begins to blame the religion and even god, who has nothing to do with any religion. Muhammad was a man who lived along time ago and he’s innocent of the crimes and lies of those who came after him. Cheers

[@fihtah8243]

@@silly1-fj6wg pretty much the same response I’ve heard from “ex-Muslims”. It sounds like you all have been fed a script. I don’t follow Islam or any religion nor do I care about your fate. If you believe some made up story about a man you’ve never met marrying a 6yr old then I dont what’s going on in your mind. keep believing in coocoo stories, goodluck and goodbye.

[@boethius1812]

Duh, obviously Christianity, with it's threat of Hell.

[@inatorquoisemood93]

I beg to differ, I found out from experience that forgiveness of my mother changed my mindset from extreme bitterness to a more peaceful state - she owned her mistakes and asked to be forgiven. I was able to move from accusation to acceptance in lieu of her acknowledgmdent of how she wronged me. By forgiving her it moved me away from endless rumination on past experience. My father on the other hand refuses to acknowledge how he wronged me and gaslights my truth. Because of that I find it it very difficult to move forward with him and truly forgive him. I still feel consumed by an element of bitterness towards him.

[@garyczapla2216]

I never Forgive and I never Forget . This is My Strength . I am not Divided and I have not been conquered . I am Mentally indestructible and Emotionally Whole .

[@jasonshults368]

That's a lot of baggage you're carrying. You'll eventually find that lack of compassion crippling. That's okay. We're all on a journey.

[@saintmyless]

love the mantra but remember that sometimes it is unhealthy to hold onto negative emotions

[@Rikisballs]

​@jasonshults368 Nah it's that very mindset that has liberated me. My life brighter and warmer than it's ever been.

[@Foden5354]

Theyre programmed a certain way, they dont mean to be bad thats just how they were programmed to be from their own toxic upbringing, its all programming, its not your parents that are bad, its the programming, separate them from each other (the programming & your parents ) and it will be easier to forgive and see them as broken souls that didnt even have a chance at life due to their terrible upbringing that programmed them in such a way, if they had loving parents they would have been so different to you, they didnt even develop consciousness properly, theyre stuck at a low level of intellect like a prison they cant get out of, I remember being a child and not possessing inner monologue, its why I couldn't do maths equations in my head when i was younger, i would just stare at the person in confusion, wanting them to just tell me the answer, i literally didnt have the mental tools to do anything, I'd imagine many of our parents from those old generations before the internet would be at that level of consciousness, brings meaning to the quote "Forgive them, for they know not what they do". Its sad really, makes you have compassion for them in a way, and this is coming from someone who deals with anger for my parents about how I was raised.

[@mirceazaharia2094]

Make sure to manage that baggage behind closed doors. Read philosophy, meditate, listen to music, go on nature walks, work out, whatever works. Never let them see you bleed.

[@jjflash2611]

When I was a child, forgiveness was a nebulous concept. My narcissistic alcoholic Father abused me then would pretend that nothing happened. As I withdrew he would do something nice or buy me a toy so I would forget it. Being the "good son", I felt tremendous shame and guilt for thinking of my Father as an abuser and blamed myself. I felt helpless in the House so minimized the abuse and continued to see his love and validation that never came even as he lay dying in the Hospital some 40 years later. I constantly hear people tell me that I should now forgive my Father for my own mental health. I am glad I clicked on this video because I have zero forgiveness in my heart as the scars of my childhood still haunt me.

[@Knowledge_wisdomwins]

I’m not a believer of “cheap grace.” Accountability is important.

[@Iluvrocket]

My parents tell me, “you’re holding a grudge,” “I would have hoped time heals all wounds,” and “you should forgive us,” and I ask in response: “forgive you for what?” And they say, “I don’t know!” They just cannot be at fault, and they just urge me to come back and submit. They are truly monsters with human masks.

[@seanjaycox3530]

This right here. I think a lot of modern religion that tout phrases like this, are just bait for narcissists. It also seems like it actively discourages self awareness. They can interpret their sins the way that they want or are inclined to, instead of taking inventory on how the effect the environment and those around them. Then they quietly apologize in their minds for what they THINK they did was bad and they get to feel better.

[@RaffertyMBTI]

“Submit” is the word. It feels innately wrong.

[@pod9363]

Most people have made a habit out of choosing the lie that comforts them than the painful truth. Even I have this problem. But for some people I guess the painful truths can become so colossal that lying to yourself becomes as needed as air.

[@Kristian_bello]

Calm your tities boy. Some parents don’t even say sorry. Some parents exploit their children through sexual trafficking. Are your parents really monsters, or are they just conditioned as you.

[@ginaiosef]

We shouldn't forget otherwise we repeat the experience because we didn't learn from it. Those who speak like this would like a delete of those things. If I could turn back time... Is too much to ask.

[@alexxx4434]

Unless traumas the abusers have inflicted are not healed, there is no point talking about forgiveness. Because these traumas will constantly remind you of them.

[@mitsuha4788]

That makes no sense. You come to forgive by communicating with someone, either with yourself or with another, about forgiveness.

[@Morgantritherion]

The last time I chose to forgive my mother, she nearly sent me into a nervous break down at work with her inability to uphold bounderies.

[@Diarrheagod]

Same. She will just go though her devaluation cycle and start to shame me and talk down to me because of something that I did, like not reading her mind.

[@mschoy1597]

That's horrific! She sounds nuts (no offense).

[@sonrog8877]

Thank you for expressing the truth. Authenticity & not denial of our feelings is what heals us

[@NikD215]

I remember I told my NPD mother I forgave her for her abuse and evilness towards me. She told me I didn't forgive her and started to outline what MY REAL forgiveness of her was supposed to look like, one of them being to forget all the abuse and evilness she did to me. Although she doesn't have to forget what her mother did to her. Anyway, I realized my mother is always going to be a POS, tell me how I'm supposed to forgive her instead of accepting my forgiveness of her. There is no love lost between my mother and myself. I don't need to forgive her at all. I'll tell you guys what type of beast of a mother I had. After she had her last child at 25, she had her tubes tied, fast forward to her being in her 30s and she's in the relationship with a married man, I'm a 15 yo virgin and my mother wanted me to get pregnant by her 30 something married bf because she wanted a baby with him, but it had to be biologically related to her. She literally harassed me for weeks and she had a whole plan mapped out. Finally, I snapped on her and told my uncle she was trying to make me get pregnant with her married bf. She told my uncle she was just joking. Yeah, that's a mild story.

[@galaxy98765]

One of the things that still haunts me is a documentary I saw on TV several years ago, where some parents were meeting with the men who murdered their daughters. And a couple were sitting in a room with the man who murdered their daughter. The mother was being WAY TO NICE to the murderer, saying things like, "Is there anything you need, can we bring you anything, we forgive you", etc. The thing I will never forget is the poor father sitting there speechless during the whole thing, looking like he was in so much pain, looking down and not saying anything. I still feel so badly for HIM. I don't think the mother was speaking for him when she told the murderer that she forgives him. I'm sure the mother was in pain, too, but I wanted to slap her silly, and she didn't look at all like she was considering her poor husband's feelings. I felt so badly for the father of the murdered girl. By the way, the murderer offfered them nothing - no remorse, no apology, no nothing. He just felt sorry for himself, and that's it. It's been a few years since I saw that documentary, but I still remember the painful look on the father's face, as his wife sat there and asked the murderer how he is doing and if there is anything she can bring him. Argh!!!!! Some clueless people think that if we forgive someone, it benefits us. That's the biggest bunch of horsepucky I've ever heard. That's like saying "it's OK that you did that horrible thing to me/us.

[@summerohara554]

My guess is a Misuse of forgiveness. "Negative emotions" are often justified, all feelings have to be felt for a while.

[@keke8880]

Society pushes women to forgive way more than men

[@justsaying.8017]

Wow😢

[@ABeautifulEarthForOurChildren]

Forgiveness is an act of self-love. You let go of the anger, resentment and repressed emotions so you can let go of the past and live freely in the present moment. Real forgiveness is an act of love towards yourself. It's about kindly telling yourself that it's enough. Finding out why you have that resentment or anger and then notice that you actually don't need it anymore. You don't need to hold onto the thoughts, trauma and repressed emotions. Yes they once served you but with time anger and repressed emotions transform into physical ailments like reumathoid arthritis and other mostly inflammatory diseases. If you want to heal your physical ailments you need to reheal your mind. It is painful but if at children we don't know how to deal with psychological wounds and repress them. As adults they resurface as trauma and that's when you can act on it and transform those emotions. Gently reopen the wound and let it heal in a correct and healthy way. Anger is burning you from the inside, psychologically and physically. What you're describing is just a shallow psychotherapy thing, like a bandaid that's put over your wound. To be honest I think most of psychotherapy is pretty shallow and doesn't get to the root of the problems because they simply get overlooked or are just not psychology standards. (Tbh, I think modern psychotherapy was created in a way to treat symptoms and keep the patients sick to make money of of them and to control them) That's pretty arrogant and ignorant to say that we can't learn anything from thousands of years of yogic and medicinal research. The medical industry wants to keep the population sick to control them, so they treat your symptoms but not the cause. Like a lack of meaning or belonging. Or a lack of love and family. Which are major necessities for a healthy mind. That's not just with psychological illness but also physical illness. You need to look at your wound yourself and assess it and let it take time to heal. Instead of ripping it open again and again so you can use and act out the anger as energy. Forgiveness doesn't mean you forget. You still remember, you still will get triggered. But it's about letting that deep anger and resentment and trauma from childhood rise up and to feel it in your body to release it. This takes time and practice and is almost never provided by psychologists because it's a spiritual practice and has almost nothing to do with psychology or medical rsearch (even tho there's a lot of research they like to ignore it and gaslight you into thinking that the medical industry is right). Forgiveness is m about feeling and letting yourself feel. To acknowledge your true feeling for the people who hurt you. (In case of my father I felt intense desire to take revenge and then kill him. That's a hard pill to swallow: I want to kill my dad? Yes. Or at least I wanted to as a child and now those feelings are resurfacing. In case of my mother I felt hate and other emotions and even tho the emotion wasnt as strong, it hurt me a lot more than with my father. After all my mother should've put her life on the line for me. But she didn't like me or maybe the stress and fear didn't let her like or love me. Whatever the case: a child without the love of a mother grows up with a lot of pain. Because life without love is pain. Emotions aren't negative, they are a normal reaction in normal humans. But our emotions got hijacked or dismissed and now we're sitting here and don't know shit on how to deal with them. That will be your process: to learn again how to live with ALL OF YOUR EMOTIONS without judging them or putting any thought into them. Your feelings are valuable, you're allowed to feel all of it.

[@gingersnaps4194]

This was well stated. I think it sounds like the mom in the OP’s example was desperately hoping by overtly forgiving her child’s killer it would somehow assuage the grief and anguish she felt. Yet, like other commenters have sagely noted, forgiving someone who is not truly sorry is an exercise in futility. The mother in this example likely did not get the relief she was hoping for - though I hope she did. No parent should have to endure losing a child. Yet as you say, freeing oneself of those negative feelings is a deeply personal process - no one can dictate how an individual navigates that process. I also agree the body tells the story of unresolved trauma, so there’s benefit to the journey of making some semblance of peace with the past, even (or perhaps especially) when one has been wronged. You do not owe peace to those whom have hurt you, but you do owe peace to yourself. ❤

[@Robertsmith-un5cu]

Accept what’s happened in your life. But don’t ignore or forget. process your own emotions. And move on.

[@allthe1]

I think that, when people give the "forgiveness" advice, it's because they can't bear other people's pain and anger. Their way of pushing back their own pain and anger was to identify with their abusers, take their side. Sometimes it took the decades to accomplish this, and although not healed, they have successfully stopped their councious self to feel those feelings and stored them in their bodies, and at the back of their mind. Witnessing other people going through them calls back those feelings and they have to be on the move, put on an act, as though they moved past it, and intice other people to do the same. When they do this to their own children, they end up traumatizing them by denying them the right to feel those feelings. When it's other adults, they will use covert disapproval, complicated and mystical arguments, threats of abandonment, and in the worst case lash out and misdirect their pain and anger at the people who don't side with (forgive) their abusers. That is a very sad, although widespread way of treating other people's feelings in my own surroundings.

[@RoSario-vb8ge]

True

[@anthonywilliams1616]

I can relate whole heatedly and my environment too is toxic and encourages the same dysfunctional behavior.

[@tannislintz1124]

i agree

[@agent-33]

I told my mother that I forgave her when deep down in me I knew I still don't. I thought something is wrong with me. Forgiving is just not for me. The solution that works for me is to forget and cut off contact. When you said "they lose themselves", I felt it because it is painfully true.

[@kimberlysweidy2670]

Yes. Yes. Yes. What I need to do for myself is Radically Accept that I have no control over other people's behavior and their behavior is about them, not me. I then need to walk away from all forms of toxicity. Forgiveness is reserved for those who express remorse (apologize), make amends, and change their future behavior.

[@patriciabarlowirick]

I love this comment. The victim needs to feel integrity.

[@ExoticalT369]

I’m already waaay ahead of you, sir. I’ve never believed in forgiveness and I’m pretty sure that I’m older than you are. Forgiveness is code for: “I’m a gullible pushover, please keep hurting me.” I’m not with the stupid sh!t. 👑

[@omarra6781]

I haven't bought into the idea of forgiveness for eons. I'm kind of a lone wolf in my circle in that respect.

[@vickigonya9432]

You can forgive them, not forget and deny access to you from them. Go on and live your life. Don't carry the baggage

[@ExoticalT369]

@@vickigonya9432 Um, nothing I said suggests that I’m “carrying baggage”. I’m unforgiving and still a happy, peaceful person. ❤️

[@alicearcturus8610]

You are right and I found out the hard way. Went on to 2 abusive husbands who just used me.

[@alicearcturus8610]

You are right and I found out the hard way. Went on to 2 abusive husbands who just used me.

[@LisaEtter]

I've tried REALLY TRIED to forgive them and have suffered tremendous guilt at being unable to do so. Finally someone ANYONE has said differently. THANK YOU. Im not bitter I'm just realistic. I'm going to honor it and say YES.

[@SpicyGramCracker]

Overlooking isn’t the same as forgiveness. This is twisted. Don’t overlook and stuff things down it multiplies the trauma.

[@miamichaels5999]

I have never really felt better when someone apologizes to me. Words are often empty. I am always ready to just bury the hatchet and move on because I believe that actions are louder than words.

[@krielsavino5368]

I agree! The value of forgiveness is, for the abused, to move on and away from the abuser, not as a form of green-lightning, tolerating, closing one eye to, or enabling bad behaviour. Paradoxically when I truly forgive, I move away not closer to toxic people. Forgiveness means for me not holding resentment, heal and move away. Toxic forgiveness means tolerating, self sacrificing, fawning, pleasing the abuser with a narcissistic disguise of spiritual superiority.

[@georgedylan2782]

I agree with everything you said

[@dontbelongherefromanother]

But that's not what most abusers have in mind. They believe forgiveness means reconciliation not moving away and ceasing contact with them. This is why many victims are confused

[@krielsavino5368]

​@@dontbelongherefromanother Agreed, I remember my toxic sister playing that card on me with "But you have to forgive!" (or something similar), which is true but not in the way she intended it. What she meant was: let us poke you and poke, while you give us a pass, and we let you feel good about yourself by playing the "forgiving one". My motto is "I forgive you, but get out of my face" (if you disrespect me). It is really hard to distinguish healthy from toxic forgiveness. Paradoxically forgiveness means acceptance but not necessarily tolerance (not at all actually).

[@diegotelge5185]

Thanks, was going to write something similar, forgiveness is key to heal and not holding resentment.

[@galaxy98765]

Finally! There is someone who agrees with me! I don't believe in the concept of forgiveness, either. Thank you, Daniel.

[@dontbelongherefromanother]

I always had an issue with it

[@AwakeningVibes-369]

❤ Me too. I would say, moving on is a better option. Forgiveness comes from the person who wronged you. But why are we forgiving? Did they asked your forgiveness. I didn't understand this concept.

[@gptgod]

If you dont forgive you will always be a slave to the person or people that wronged you. I couldnt imagine making an entire video about how awful my parents are and how brave i am to leave and never forgive them. It’s the type of thing therapy sessions were invented for. Unforgiveness is the most irrational thing human beings do. Bitterness is the lifeblood of unhappiness. When you forgive you actually destroy the person; you tear down whatever stronghold they have over you.

[@dëssvvughnÿne]

@@gptgod🧢

[@OneFreeMan17]

@@gptgodNo.

[@nxcts20]

I always thought it was dumb to forgive someone who wronged you and has yet to apologize or acknowledge their wrongdoing. Letting go of the hate is an entirely different thing and had def helped me. Being constantly hateful towards someone isn't good for your mental or physical health

[@teemue]

This. Letting go of the hate ia what foegiveness should be. It should happen in the mind. And it could take years but the aim should be "someday in my MIND I can foegive them" - and again, this doesn't mean you should rekindle with your abusive parents or call them and announce spiritual forgiveness : NO. It means that the poison you wished them to drink, you yourself stop consuming. Like buddhist say : hate and unforgiveness is like a poison you wish to your enemy but you drink it yourself. People on this chat don't seem to underatand this difference between letting go and forgiveness as an act or wanting to receive an apology. Forgiveness happens in your MIND so that you would finally stop the projection loop set off by your parents. You can end it. And there is no absolute need to talk to your parents (or whomever has wronged you) ever if you don't sincerely feel that. But don't force tourself to forgive because it is the "right thing to do" but do _let go_ because it will set you f r e e.

[@americaninrussia1886]

Letting go of resentment is what forgiveness is

[@kimberlysweidy2670]

Release them. Radically Accept who others are, as shown by their actions, and Radically Accept that it has nothing to do with you, only them. And walk away in calm and peace and focus on being the Best Version Of Yourself and surrounding yourself with like-minded individuals. This approach is both liberating and high integrity. (Forgiveness is advocated by abusers (and their enablers) who want to continue to abuse and have every abuse hurt as much as the first time.)

[@craz4jaymz]

Hate can be a driving force to transformation. It has helped me to discover myself. I personally dont see the need to let go of it for myself as it is like a messenger, letting me know of the deep seated traumas I still have.

[@khrysalisharlequin3196]

Oo thank you I love how you differentiated that: letting go of hatred is an entirely different thing than choosing to not forgive someone for your own well being and possibly the well-being of others.

[@amygorman8299]

Forgive yourself for what you endured, forgive the child that had to survive, forgive yourself and parent your inner child the way you should have been. Let go of the shame that locks you into the past and love the part of you that just had to survive.

[@successfulperson3304]

Telling people to forgive is a form of gaslighting many times. Letting go after processing is needed to move on but forgiveness is so overrated and not even possible most of the time.

[@brahmanwithin6623]

When a person truly changes, the person who hurt you no longer exists.

[@Mountaingypsytrading]

I’ve quit speaking to my entire family. At first it felt like the pit in my stomach would never go away.. but then.. this feeling of freedom came over me, and I’m basking in it. I don’t hate them, I’m just not playing a part in their narcissistic performance anymore.

[@mirceazaharia2094]

I'm sorry to hear it had to come to that. I hope you're doing better.

[@Mountaingypsytrading]

@@mirceazaharia2094 thank you, and yeah, me too.

[@chime-girl]

Not forgiving, nor forgetting, allows me to have healthy boundaries and discernment with past and future abusers. What has helped me to move forward is giving to myself what I didn't get from both my parents. Inner child work has continued to be the key to my healing. Great conversation!

[@sundappled]

As ever, Daniel, I feel such deep thanks, relief, comfort, encouragement, camaraderie, delight and support listening to your KZbin videos. When I started my own healing process back in 1986, I realized that the previous 12 years of 'forgiving' the severely abusive person I still refer to as the momster had not only not worked in helping me but kept me miserably stuck in the toxic enmeshment. After 14 years of working on my healing, having almost no contact with the momster, when I learned/studied about malignant narcissism and the other destructive personality disorders in 2000, that made sense of the momster's motivation and needs, I was able to properly come out of the enmeshment and arrived at a workable peace of mind and heart. A perspective happened that I call rabid dog compassion. Like a rabid dog, the abuser is pitiful in many ways but not safe or healthy to be around.

[@delia_watercolors]

All forgiveness did was get my mother more trapped and abused. I'm smarter than her. I don't forgive, I don't forget. And, i'm safe! 🙏

[@nocturnaljoe9543]

It wasn't forgiveness. It was her "cleverness". Forgiveness must be earned from the ones who did you wrong.

[@MissUnderstoodMom]

Thank you so much for this. I’ve been NC with my abusive Mother for 20 years and the thing I hate the most is when people tell me “forgiveness is for YOU.” I’m sorry… What? I will never forgive her for what she did to me for 32 years. I can live with it.

[@giantclaw138]

It always sucks that they equate forgiveness with letting abusive people back into your life. I see "forgiveness" as not letting their past actions negatively affect you anymore and not letting them live rent free in your mind. I'm sorry about what happened to you.

[@MissUnderstoodMom]

@@giantclaw138 Thank you. I wonder how my life may have been different if I had different parents but especially a different mother ya know?

[@giantclaw138]

@@MissUnderstoodMom Yeah

[@karamlevi]

These are surface level sentimental understandings and cliches about throwing out garbage aka forgiveness. Forgive & Remember Is the basic starting point. Also only forgiving what your comfortable forgiving is essential. I typically wish love, wealth, and happiness to my forgiveness target to the point they would never have acted that way to begin with. I feel extreme release when I do this. But I also needed deeper healing ❤️‍🩹. You guys are so fortunate to not suffer like I did. Had you suffered like me, you’d find more ways to ditch old locked in hidden pain. I did so because I would have been a danger to myself or others. Forgiveness was a key tool in my long term health. Care on-

[@giantclaw138]

@@karamlevi .

[@TheMtljo]

💯 with you! Only the abusers/narcissists benefit from pushing forgiveness. Therefore they never have to take accountability for their crimes. We live in a narcissist system for now, they're in control. Pushing forgiveness is vital to keep their control. And their expansion.

[@dontbelongherefromanother]

Exactly

[@schoomzer]

I totally agree. People say that the anger will eat you up. I'm a testament to not forgiving, aged exceptionally well and am very conscious to avoid people similar to the people who I have not forgiven.

[@mariahconklin4150]

Thanks I appreciate this comment I grew up hearing this..."life is too short you need to forgive people." IDk Danial's book about family dynamics changed me cause it's so true. My own mom is waiting for an apology she will never get she never apologized to me for allowing my own brother to prey on me and my cousins when we were younger. Even my own grandmother would say passive agressive things and allow things to happen. Toxic family for sure. I think only a few of my family members know the truth though and they have stayed away also so I'm happy for them.

[@JCPJCPJCP]

Narcissism is epidemic in the world today, and America is the epicenter.

[@Swist1213]

Absolutely correct. I have lived with a narcissist for over 40 years and only recently am seeing him for exactly what he is. He does not have the ability to apologize, probably because he can't feel empathy. He did something recently that crossed the line and changed everything. I see clearly exactly what he is. No, I will not forgive nor will I forget. This is something that he has banked on for years. Not any more. Never again. He would do something hurtful and eventually figured I'd get over it. And then eventually he will do something again. Nope, I'm done. Can't leave because of finances but what I can do id completely emotionally detach. I've found several channels that give advice on dealing with narcissist that have really been helpful.

[@michaelsaunders1509]

My parents would say ,"I f you can't abide by my rules there's the door!" With endurance a load of patience I left home quickly after graduation. Being independent was a great liberation for me.

[@anelynn145]

Thank you. I feel so validated. The only benefit of you forgiving an abuser is to them, not to you. You disrespect yourself when you forgive them. People are brainwashed to believe they can move on only after forgiveness, but you can simply move on and not forgive them for what they did. You still live a peaceful life.

[@snotrohmitabc123]

Allowing yourself to feel bitterness as a result of being taumatized is certainly part of the healing process. Thank you for emphasizing that. My life coach once said, "The problem is not emotions, everyone has emotions. The problem is when you let them control you. Emotions are tools, use them but never let them use you."

[@kayligo]

Dang I wanna life coach 👀

[@Hippowdon121]

Personally I don't see the point in differentiating yourself from your emotions like that. "The problem is when you let them control you" that sort of thing is so typical in our culture, but our culture is toxic and shouldn't be respected when it comes to it's view of emotions. If you're angry, you're angry. There's just no need to call it a tool or to say to not "let it control you". Maybe this notion comes from people being deeply afraid of honest emotion or of certain feelings like anger. Some people are so terrified of anger and think it will be the same as their parent raging at them when they were small.

[@jefesalsero]

Agreed. There is such a thing as righteous anger and it can serve us well in many ways, including increasing motivation, allowing us to protect ourselves better, etc.

[@nl-ho4wm]

When your anger turns into bitterness then it shows that you let your emotions control you

[@jonsnow911]

Nonsense. To heal emotions, you have to give them control over you and let them rage out until they are satisfied and not supressed anymore.

[@carl8568]

Forgiveness isn't simply achieved by an act of will, it just happens naturally when you resolve inner rage and abandonment wounds. And even if someone apologizes for what they've done, this certainly does not automatically free you from the energetic residues of pain that remain inside. Forgiveness is an inner journey and ultimately, I believe forgiving ourselves is a big part of it.

[@opticalraven1935]

Exactly, and forgiveness is setting boundaries. These people that are so against forgiveness have boundary issues and they want reconciliation. They are also masochist and love the pain. They need therapy.

[@MeTraD_Blk_Swn]

​@@opticalraven1935 BULLSHYTE WE DONT HAVE BOUNDARY ISSUES! THE ABUSER WHO CROSSED THE BOUNDARY AFTER U TELLING THEM NO! HAS BOUNDARY ISSUES U FUCCIN NARCISSIST

[@cosirecat263]

To put it succinctly, Forgiveness + Positive Thinking = Eating $hit.

[@megan.caroline923]

Exactly 💯 toxic positivity

[@the81kid]

Yes. And it often seems to go with a superficial "love to laugh" trend which I've noticed recently.

[@lilafeldman8630]

Forgiveness is the caboose, as Patrick Teahan says. Not the engine of the train. It's the last step of the grief process. I also feel like thankfulness is the same thing. People have told me to be thankful, but it's just another excuse to dismiss and invalidate my pain.

[@lilafeldman8630]

Actually, when I began recovery, old feelings started surfacing. Terrible old feelings that had been suppressed. I was struggling to let go of those feelings. And then I started having dreams that I was eating my own shit. Literally.

[@dontbelongherefromanother]

It's a pipe dream

[@music-is-my-world-83]

Grappling with this now and falling into the trap of "well they didn't beat me and lock me in a closet so it's not that bad." I know I shouldn't compare my trauma to others but I sometimes feel I'm not "allowed" to feel anger at my parents for their mistakes because of the context around them. I'm autistic. My traits were very obvious in childhood and more than one teacher at my school encouraged my parents to look into autism. This is recently evidenced by some old family home movies My parents recently found. My mom said she didn't want me labeled and put in a special ed class. Well guess what? I still received "labels" from other people. Unflattering, uncharitable, and mean ones. Also because I was perceived to be "gifted" I was pushed really hard to perform and was thought they be more emotionally mature than I actually was. My parents also parentified me a lot because they had their own emotional problems and would "confide" in me. So here I am, a burnt out adult in my 40's after years of struggling to appear "normal" and having issues with employment and relationships and everything else for years. Now I'm struggling to keep my job and home life and mental health in check. My physical health is also really poor because of how much stress I feel all the time. My assessor is unique in that she was very well versed in autistic adults and what it can look like when someone wasn't diagnosed for years and are masking/camouflaging their traits. She said basically "I had the feeling you're autistic right when you started talking." So basically I was forced to live with no support around my disability and the struggles I had related to it were characterized as me having bad behavior or being a bad person. It's extremely traumatic and difficult to watch old family videos and see myself get overly corrected and criticized about nearly everything I did. I'd blocked out so many of those memories of my parents being so impatient with me. But seeing it on video made me realize where my fawning and people pleasing tendencies come from. Also my parents used corporal punishment so I learned that it's okay for people who claim they love you to hit you. Guess who ended up in an abusive relationship? Me! Thankfully I got out. It was my first live-in partner. He had a lot of the traits of narcissistic disorder and they tend to seek out people who would easily be agreeable to them so they're easy to manipulate. My parents without necessarily intending to, turned me into an easy mark for manipulation. It wasted almost all of my 20's in this trauma bond codependent situationship where I was abused emotionally, financially, and eventually it escalated to the physical. Ironically if my mom sees parents in public losing patience with their kids and yelling at them she judges them. But I suspect my mom is autistic too so I can see a lot of her impatience and temper problems are the result of her own unmet needs. I suspect this about her because the more I studied the autism phenotype and how it can present, the more I saw that her and I actually have a lot of similar traits. Her sensory triggers are very similar to mine. She has told me stories of her childhood that she's looking at through a new lens now that she knows I'm autistic. She is really accepting of my diagnosis which surprised me because in the past my parents have been very dismissive about therapy. But I'm also so angry at her about certain choices. For instance she still thinks it wasn't abusive to use corporal punishment. Also while I'm financially independent now I still feel an obligation to maintain ties. I'm not in a position economically to move somewhere else. So I maintain a very surface level relationship and only share snippets of my life with them. I really don't think I can ever truly forgive them for not getting me diagnosed and giving me specific autism support because my adult life has been fractured by not having academic and sensory accommodations at school while growing up (and I have recovered some semblance of a decent life and gotten an education in spite of my parents, after leaving my abusive ex, no thanks to them because their way of raising me sucked). They have also always been tougher on me (and extremely sparing with praise) than my sibling because I'm the oldest. My sibling actually did call my mom out on that and she said my sibling was right but still hasn't ever apologized to me personally. I think it's out of embarrassment and shame. Whatever. They are *nice* to me now that they're getting old. I help them with things when I can. They are typically grateful. My mom acknowledged her impatience with me in those home videos without actually *apologizing* but at least she sees it? I continue to choose to see them once a month. I don't think I can forgive their mistakes though bc I'll be dealing with the fallout of them for the rest of my life. Being late diagnosed autistic is simultaneously liberating and traumatic. Liberating because I now know where my struggles come from and there are actionable things I can do to have a nicer life. Traumatic because now I'm being forced to replay my life like a movie in my head and relive the trauma of rejection for just being me and people not understanding me, and going through awful things I shouldn't have to go through because I had zero self love and self confidence because I thought I was inherently bad and had to work at "being good." Also I hold space for the idea that being diagnosed in the 80's and 90's as autistic could have meant being forced through harmful "therapies" like ABA which is basically behaviorism 101 dog training to coerce autistic kids into behaving more "normally."

[@borishudej691]

Thank you so much for talking about childhood and forgiving for survival. In high school every "therapist" I met told me to forget childhood cause it doesn't matter.. I think those people should go to prison. They were 1000% incompetent and rude AF. That's all.

[@Sweet_potato402]

"Forgiveness is an act of survival" As an 18 year old with a power abusing mother I resonate alot with this message. I don't want to brand my mother as evil, but I understand that if I accept this behavior as normal. It will repeat itself and I will be oblivious to the fact that I am traumatizing my own children, since after all I viewed it as normal behavior and sympathized with it. Currently working on becoming more financially independent and finding space to reflect more freely, this video is a blessing for many.

[@tnt01]

Leave as soon as you can. Hugs.

[@kmoon50]

There comes a point... I am 73... worked all my life on understanding and healing from being the Family Scapegoat with N's... several generations now, even.... where...... it's just SOOOOO repetitive.... that...... it becomes.................................... boring. Somehow.. being just plain sick and tired of it..... like seeing a horror movie so many times it doesn't scare you at ALL any more.... is where i am now...

[@Ana-Karina]

This. Firstly, I am truly sorry that you were the family scapegoat. It is a terrible, lonely and profoundly unfair position to be in. Secondly, I totally agree that it is repetitive. In the eyes of the other family members, the family scapegoat will ALWAYS AND FOREVER be the family scapegoat. It is horrible and abusive but unfortunately that is what narcissists do in a family. Narcissists need a facade to show that they are 'innocent' and the way they do this is shift all blame on to a family scapegoat. If the other family members were capable of seeing and understanding that their actions are abusive, they would not do what they do. They are narcissists or co-dependents. They are incapable of self-reflection. Since they are incapable of genuinely saying sorry and changing their ways, things will never change and 'forgiveness' is futile.

[@PamComorski]

Forgive yourself for "not" forgiving them. My 3 siblings are a nightmare my Aunts and mother are constantly begging me to forgive them .Hell know. Once you do, they own you and you don't own yourself.

[@MastaChafa]

In my experience, true forgiveness comes naturally, only after overcoming the trauma, but never before. You are right that forcing oneself to forgive the unforgivable is gaslighting and losing oneself.

[@Pureworkswithworkman]

You preached this like a Sunday sermon. On New Years my new partner asked about my childhood and then started to pressure me to reach out to my parents and forgive them. He doesn’t understand the trauma…the hyper critical environment…the continual shame and judgement. I’ve finally met myself in the last 5 years…and I don’t want to sacrifice myself. I don’t want to go into questioning my worth…feeling low. I’ll pass!! Thank you for giving me a voice.❤️

[@dmackler58]

Wishing you the best! Sorry I haven't replied to everyone -- so many lovely comments here. Daniel

[@joseygonzalez1800]

I have this problem with my dad. He was absent my entire life and barely helped my mom. Now he's lonely and wants me to take care of him. I'm like no **** you. Haven't talked to him in months cause he tells me I need to be there for him cause he's my dad blah blah blah. He just gives me excuses for his behavior (yet somehow I'm the a**hole in my family's eyes.) I've always hated the whole having to forgive parents.

[@sundown6748]

Dang this makes me so mad to read it. So the facts are- he wasn’t there for you but now be there for him. Don’t do it. Don’t give yourself away. You will hate yourself for it. He probably only contacted you for care.

[@tumelolebona6573]

Do not go look after him. He was not concerned for you when you needed him. It will just be another avenue to abuse you. Stay blessed.

[@sp3g56]

He’s inflicted a lifetime of financial abuse on you.

[@nancyw8341]

What goes around comes around. You are not obligated to give your life to anyone, especially to someone who chose to not give to you when you needed it most. He should have thought about this long ago. Treat others how they treat you.

[@ToddDouglasFox]

Daniel, I’m nearly 70. I started working with children and adults towards their health and well being when I was 4. My mother told me nearly 25 years later that it was due to my stomping my feet about not wanting to go to physician appointments because in my view the family doctors really didn’t know what they were doing that she and my dad stopped taking us and started seeking better ways to reverse sickness and keep their children healthy. I refused to ever see general physicians again by age 4 unless it was a real emergency that required going to the hospital or casting a bone. I followed up expressing my many concerns about school, learning, child rearing, religion and many other areas of life by confronting my parents and other adults over the years. I can’t say they listened or understood or that they even heard me most of the time. In fact my father was preoccupied since my early childhood with first physically harming my mother (which at the age of 3 I started yelling at him about and attempting to physically stop him) and then later beating my 2 younger sisters, who he would beat harder if I said or did anything. Due to your topic and the FACT that I’ve yet to come across ANYONE, particularly other professionals in the health field (all areas of health) who agree with me that not only is forgiveness not something to attempt to pursue but it’s not even an actual thing. Letting go is completely different. We can allow ourselves to move on from hopes and dreams that didn’t come to fruition. I didn’t want walkie talkies when I was 15, I wanted them when I was 10. I was gifted them at 15. Not a big deal but it makes my point. But more to the bigger point, is there truly the ability to “pardon” or “forgive” or release others from their past or present behaviors? Can we “wipe the slate clean”? Do we really have such powers? Would we want them? Isn’t there something to be said for accountability? Isn’t there something to be said about not attempting to interfere with another person’s process of taking accountability, if that is what that person’s chooses? Why would we think we have some almighty power to let others “off the hook”? I’m not a Christian but paradoxically I am a Christian (in that I’m in essence a human in appreciation of all attempts humans have made through the ages to reach in and capture their own core). Even though I’m not really a Christian in “beliefs”, I want to use the biblical scripture to illustrate that purportedly God is the only one who can forgive, the only one who judges, the only one who can see the inner heart of the person. While I don’t view it that way, I can say that for a large portion of those wanting us humans to forgive, it is apparent that they consider themselves as coming from Christianity and the accompanying basic beliefs. When they tell humans they should forgive they are violating their own tenets that clearly state that forgiveness is completely the jurisdiction of God. But setting all of that aside, absolution is a thing that is practiced by humans attempting to intervene for God to “forgive” sinners when they confess. Being of this type of “faith”, my dad began coming to me when I was a young kid to ask for this type of release from his behavior during the day that he felt was not in alignment with being a good dad. He would come to me at the end of the day and ask me to “forgive” him. I felt like he was attempting to put me in the position of being a priest, not his child. This ritual went on for a while. He would “confess” what he felt he did wrong on a given day, he would say how sorry he was and ask me to forgive him. I would quietly sit with him until he was done and then he would leave. So one day I took his hand and I said, “dad, let’s pretend that I can forgive you. But not just for today or yesterday but for everyday and for everything, forever.” I told him I didn’t really think it was possible however we should pretend that it was possible. I also told him never to ask me again. He never did. When I state frankly to people that not only is forgiveness something not to attempt but it isn’t even a thing we can do, everyone has to come to their own reckoning and there is nothing short of accountability for each person that heals them, I cannot heal them, including releasing them from their bad actions, they look at me as if I’m not only correct but that they are devastated by my correctness. However they don’t say a thing. They walk off stunned and bewildered. I had great compassion for my dad. Yes, he came from as much “rot” as one can come from but did I forgive him, absolutely not - that would be me trying to feel holier and more powerful and more capable than my dad or other humans in general, and more importantly it would mean I was a thief, trying to steal and take over a process that only the other person can execute, and the only way they can heal themselves in truth. It is the only way they can truly break free. It’s an inside job. I’m not selfish. I don’t think I’m superior or more capable. I don’t think I’m special and I have to do it for others. Nope, they get to go after their own prize, if they choose. As always, I will show up with compassion but not with a “get out of jail free card”. They have to find their way “home” on their own with all of the angst and anguish and regret pouring through them as well as the love of self finally coming through, including self compassion. The good and bad news: only they can do it. The good news: they can do it.

[@nichaeloz]

(7:13) "You're a brave person not to forgive" - the moment I fell in love with Daniels's wisdom 🙏

[@bluemoony102]

Thank YOU for existing ♥️ Daniel 🖌️ I've placed this video on repeat mode since you've shared it . And I'm really speechless & can't find the words to describe how precious this video is. This is one of your greatest treasures. Thank YOU very much 🙏🏼

[@dawnross2514]

People telling you that you should forgive are doubling the hurt and nullifying your right to feel hurt. Forgiveness is a private matter. What victims need is to feel validated, only then can they, in time, proceed towards forgiveness.

[@tahsina.c]

Well put. People shouldnt push others to forgive those who have hurt them, it's not at all helpful

[@BB-lf7cv]

Exactly..

[@jayeankh5671]

Daniel Mackler, if anything, is always on the side of the victim and never minimizes the effects of trauma. He is a true advocate for trauma informed care.

[@kokalti]

At 38 I finally confronted my dad about my childhood abuse. His reaction: Deflection, saying why do I just remember the bad things, dismissing it as not a big deal, saying he is not even sorry for what he did. I blocked him on my phone and decided I'm done with him because he couldn't even acknowledge now after all these years that what he was doing was wrong.

[@hellucination9905]

We just can't live with these people. Their core is rotten. No contact is the only viable notion.

[@nancyw8341]

That took a lot of courage to confront him. That reaction had to hurt. You're a grown man and don't need someone like that in your life. Blood is NOT thicker that water. Move on and be proud that you gave him a chance to apologize. He chose to not do it. That says a lot about him. You did good!

[@Inwardstosuccess]

Forgiveness doesn't help you it only helps the abuser to not be accountable and keeps you stuck in trauma

[@Kuutamo73]

10:00 Traumatized people are supposed to feel bitter...maybe for a long long time. That's part of the healing process

[@apollolawrences.pastor7821]

The problem is if you get bitter to your (for example) children, would the trauma just get pass down like nothing changes and you just ended up like your parents?

[@terencehennegan1439]

Forgiveness comes when you don’t try, trying to forgive is forcing. It’s got to come naturally without any effort whatsoever and it will.

[@ryank6322]

Which is to say it's not an act at all. It just happens.

[@Nikko137]

Respectufully disagree. I see forgiveness as leaving the emotional burden attached to a person, event or situation. Time does NOT take that away. You should consciously look at this and throw away the feel (If you can, If you want, and If youre ready, not by obligation or for others gain) It demands will power and some effort. So no, time dont take that away.

[@BL-sd2qw]

✨️Radical acceptance✨️ What you resist, persists. If you resist the lack of forgiveness, it stays there

[@BL-sd2qw]

​@@ryank6322Yes 💯

[@Hippowdon121]

Respectfully disagree. 😊​@@Nikko137

[@njay4361]

I feel you. It bothers me when people suggest I should forgive others that have hurt me. The reason it bothers me so much is because forgiveness happens when I've come to accept all that happened to me and have processed it fully and am ready to move on and heal. In the end, it's not the person who hurt me that I'm forgiving, it's me being able to let go of all the pain I'm carrying around because of them. Yet when people tell me to forgive others, it feels like they want it more for themselves than for me, like they don't want to deal with my hurt or angry feelings and it's an easy way for them to get me to stop talking about it and "be positive". But I've noticed that most of the people who I trust and respect would never say something like that to me; It's always the people who think that they know about a situation without ever taking the time to understand and know what the situation actually is.

[@kristenmarie9248]

So well said.

[@RoSario-vb8ge]

That's how it is ❤

[@eottoe2001]

At the minimum one should not forgive anyone or anything until they are no longer a threat or danger. What invariably happens is you forgive them, you have to interact with them again, and they sting you again. Also, don't forgive if you haven't resolved your anger, grief, or sense of violation you have about them. A therapist who is not into forgiveness told me that the best thing for her is to get to a place where they don't matter or what they did is resolved then let go -- or not. TY for this.