Why I'm using 3D printed Tie Plates

[@BenHancock-uj7uq]

Here on the IMSE track we are in the process of replacing our treated wood ties, (track was laid 20 years ago in current location), with recycled plastic ties. We do not use tie plates, but we do use a flat washer under the head of the screws. 2 screws per rail in each tie. The plastic is uv resistant and will outlast all of us.

[@MillBrookRailroad]

@BenHancock-uj7uq At some point, I will be able to try recycled plastic ties. In the meantime, I have a mix of relay ties. The reason for the tie plates is to keep the rail from moving out of gauge.

[@emdB67]

I'd never really thought about it, but my own track also has tie plates. My track is also secondhand having been given to me when the previous owner changed gauges. The track he gave me is for 5" gauge. He changed to 7¼" (I'm in Australia). My track uses 1" x 3/8" (25 x 10mm) mild steel bar rather than proper profiled rail. However, the builder had gone to the trouble to cut and drill plates which were then welded to the rail which were then screwed to the ties. There are much easier ways to build track, but it's very solid and derailments on my own track are very rare as a result.

[@vlaardingerrr]

Buy a metal milling machine, metal saw and a thick enough aluminum plate. Lay the whole aluminum plate in the mill and make one long grove in the middle of the plate for the track and when you tilt the head you can make the tapered edges. After that cut the aluminum plate with a metal saw so you get the correct size for each railroad tie. And make a simple mold with wood so you can clamp that mold to the deck of milling machine or column drill so you can drill the holes for the screws in the aluminum plates every time on same place.

[@MillBrookRailroad]

I've often thought about doing what you are suggesting and I like the setup you described, but my milling machine is in pieces, missing an important part (I need a gib for the knee of my Benchmaster M11), and my saw is waiting for the milling machine so I can do repairs to it (it's been in pieces for a couple years now). The 3D printer seemed like an appropriate next best thing and has led me down this rabbit hole. Along the way, I've had the help of a good friend who has a filament 3D printer and helped me with the design work. He also sold me my first resin printer. (My Formlabs printers are given to me). The tantalizing thing is that the nylon carbon fiber filament tie plates are still holding up quite well, even under logging trains. I've learned a lot about 3D printing in the process and I think that makes it all worthwhile. The biggest difference, however, is that I've managed to eliminate derailments caused by gauge spreading in the areas where I have tie plates, even where they are broken. I don't know if I can convey how significant that is. To find that a failed tie plate, made from an inferior material, will perform almost as well as a fully intact aluminum plate was an unexpected result. The journey may well be more important than the destination in this case.

[@dzymslizzy3641]

Very interesting, indeed! Your railroad is a great combination of working railroad and fun hobby. It was fun to hear you say a couple of typical New England things; sayings I sometimes use myself, even though I'm CA born and raised. (But both my parents were New Englanders.) "Any port in a storm." Mom would say that; her lineage goes back through the MA whaling industry. Also, hearing you say that you're a fan of "use what you have" reminded me of the Yankee adage I grew up with: "Use it up, wear it out, make it do, or do without." Many years ago, I found an actual full scale tie plate along an old abandoned rail bed. I picked it up, and it is now the display base for my little z-scale locomotive and small consist. It makes an interesting juxtaposition. Cheers!

[@mustachemike802]

Loc-tite makes a type of 3d printer resin called Onyx that is very durable and is reasonably priced. It's made for high impact/wear applications.

[@MillBrookRailroad]

@@mustachemike802 I'll have to look into that.

[@WHJeffB]

Good luck with 3D printed resin tie plates Aaron... Most of your 3D resin's end up being pretty brittle. Constant UV exposure might make that even worse, but the temperature changes, as well as the cold winter temps are likely going to reek the most havoc with them. I say this as someone that's done a LOT of 3D resin printing. Ideally... Filament printed (nylon) tie plates are probably your best bet. I'd consider buying a fairly large format filament printer, and printing the plates with that (or a few lower end/smaller format ones to run simultaneously).

[@Tuckaway]

I would recommend only using printed black plastic tie plates as these should last longer due to UV sunlight degradation. My 5 inch garden rail ends are bolted together with stainless nuts and bolts so I can always get them apart. Best wishes JNS Rugby , England.

[@noxin75]

Long time watcher, I've commented before on your videos. I have a small/medium sized print farm and I'm over in NH. If you want to discuss getting some tie plates printed, just reach out. We can work out a good deal for you.

[@MillBrookRailroad]

@@noxin75 millbrookrailroad.com

[@jacobbutler4812]

Having the budget for nice tie plates makes a great functional and aesthetic solution. On my own railroad, I saved that money and drilled into the foot of the rails before laying track. Just remember to measure twice or more before!

[@MillBrookRailroad]

@jacobbutler4812 My aspiration is to have the budget to have aluminum tie plates made for the 5/8 rail, or even better yet: steel rail and tie plates.

[@44121ss1309]

I say as i done before. When you make resin Tie plates give them some paint after to protect them from the suns UV light.

[@RamonInNZ]

etch primer and a layer or two of grey/green for resin, PLA and even ABS tie plates would help!

[@peterthornton8520]

Great Video on the issues relating to Tie Plates. I find it difficult not to add the following issues why they fail besides the effect of UV on the Resin, The poor condition of the majority of your Tie's (Split, Cracked, Not set in ballast properly), Some rails held by only 1 screw, some by 2 screws, etc ) This causes the Rail to move, I would have thought that the Rails secured by 4 screws per tie Plate or direct in tie would offer less reason for the rail to move. Enjoy the Video's though. Cheers

[@steamlogger]

On the White Creek Railroad we drive the screws straight in. They continue to hold gauge when they back out.

[@ahbushnell1]

If you need a bunch of plates (1000) you could have them extruded in Aluminum. I made reflectors for a job back in the day and we extruded them. Nice price. Don't know if that will work. The main cost is in tooling. That paid off for us in one extrusion. Is there a market for these tie plates?

[@MillBrookRailroad]

@@ahbushnell1 Extruded aluminum would be preferable. The resin plates are only because nothing else is out there for this rail. I don't know how much of a market there is for tie plates for this rail, but maybe I'll be surprised.

[@ahbushnell1]

@@MillBrookRailroad Can you use a flat plate with holes with out the guide? Or with flat plate with tabs bent up? It won't tilt the rail. :< What are the major dimensions.

[@kadebrown6162]

try hitting the resin plates with automotive clearcoat. or any kind of UV blocker really. like you said it's the UV that kills them. resin parts never really stop "curing"

[@BNSFGP38]

Fun game, take a shot every time Aaron says Tie Plate and chug a Beer every time he says failing

[@petercruikshank2618]

You tied that video up nicely! Great to see the Fall colors. What is the name of the tall mountain over your house? 3:47

[@MillBrookRailroad]

@@petercruikshank2618 That's Mount Ascutney

[@OldGuyAdventure]

So, do the tie plates have a shoulder that clips around the flared section of the rail? The challenge with resin Tie Plates is that UV light cures the resin; if you put in additives to prevent degradation, you cannot cure it. This is, however, lost wax resins that would allow the creation of a mould that you could cast aluminum tie plates. If you printed up many wax tie plates, you could link them together into a tree and pour many at a time. A jeweller who makes rings may be able to help with casting a printed wax design. I have seen other model railroads that literally mill rail-wide slots into the tie, make up a jig to fit a router table, and mass-produce these ties.

[@dalehatton6965]

Perhaps you could try getting a length aluminium flat in the width and thickness you need, cut it to the size and pre drill the holes, I understand that it doesn't have the same shape on top but it will help stop the screws from spreading.

[@johnblair8146]

Some thoughts: Filament printers are cheaper to buy than resin printers. Translucent plastics are less durable under UV exposure than black plastics. The tie plates should be double shouldered. There should be anchor spike holes on each tie plate in the center of both shoulders.The two rail holding spike holes should be staggered toward the edge of the shoulders. This staggering will discourage splitting of the ties. Your ties need to be longer, I'd say no less than15" long.

[@wolftrainservicesltd6418]

I will stick to my 1/48 scale indoor o scale 2 rail trains. But thx for answering some questions i had.

[@MillBrookRailroad]

@wolftrainservicesltd6418 This is a very specific case for a very specific rail. Every other type of rail has tie plates available. Unfortunately, I didn't know that when I got this rail. Not that it would have changed much.

[@jenniferwhitewolf3784]

Steel rail HAS been available... Before building his own railroad, Tom Miller had miles and miles of steel rail rolled. He sold off about half of it, at a profit, leaving his half essentially free. I recall the rolling mill was in the UK. Tom is now out of the hobby, but if the market is there, it would make sense to have a pile of steel rail rolled. It has the advantage of being weldable if needed, and far more durable than soft extruded aluminum rail.

[@MillBrookRailroad]

@jenniferwhitewolf3784 Miller's rail was larger than this rail. I'm not against using steel rail. It's just finding a place to have it rolled and getting enough other people who want steel rail to get the order large enough to make it worthwhile. It's a project I've been working on for nearly a year. It started with design, and now I have parts samples sitting at a brand new rolling mill that is set to open in the next year or so.

[@marcrijkhals]

As a model railroad 3d printer person I think you should try it different. Wood will always working with temperature and moisture. If you bolt the resin plates into the wood, the resin parts will break because they don't bend and move with the wood. So I would fix that issue first. So I would split the resin parts in half. One for the inside and one for the outside. Then overlap the resin parts over the side of the track and bold it down. I can draw a demo idea but don't know where to upload it to you. And if the holes are to tight for the bolds, the resin breaks!!!!.

[@MillBrookRailroad]

If you're on Facebook, Mill Brook Railroad has a page there.

[@Nevir202]

Have you considered instead milling a grove into your ties? Wouldn't help too much with the screws sharing load, but it would help take some of the lateral load off of the pair of screws that does have to bear any given load.

[@MillBrookRailroad]

The idea has merit, but then I would have to replace all the ties on the curves. I'm not sure how I feel about that at the moment. Also, the milling machine I recently acquired is missing the gib to the knee. The guy who gave it to me says he has the gib somewhere, and he'll let me know when he finds it. I can't mill anything until the part is found.

[@williamlee1429]

2 x 8 pressure-treated lumber would help a lot the next time you replace floaters I feel

[@rustyc521]

Time to start rebuilding the railroad and go with Accu tie rail, and plastic ties and hardware!🤷‍♂️😁

[@woozleboy]

The printed tie plates will be perfectly fine as long as you don't use them outdoors, in sunlight, run heavy weight over them or expose them to weather.

[@RamonInNZ]

Hahahaha we painted a few of our PLA sensor holders for custom weather stations we're building at uni and not had too much problem with them being painted!

[@glennschlorf1285]

Ive thought about making my own steel rail... and tie plates for my future Railroad... Ive figured Ill haul heavier loads

[@MillBrookRailroad]

@glennschlorf1285 I'm hauling one ton firewood and wood pellet trains. How much heavier do you want to go?

[@martylawson1638]

Have you tried tie plates printed in max hardness TPU? Ninjatec Armadillo is one example. It's still pretty stiff but bends like rubber. Makes crazy tough parts.

[@MillBrookRailroad]

I have not tried that resin yet. As soon as I replace the screen on my printer, I'll have to give it a try.

[@Deadbrokemine]

Painting the tie plates blocks the uv and will significantly extend their life. Accu-tie can do custom orders, worth giving them a call at least.

[@GreatPyramidPump]

Where is a good place to buy rail? I was looking for used but I can buy new. Do you know of a good website to buy rail? Thanks.

[@MillBrookRailroad]

@@GreatPyramidPump www.discoverlivesteam.com is probably the best place to find people who sell rail at the moment.

[@Brian_Boxtruck]

Injection molding is super cheap in China. 2-4k would get you a box of tie-plates.

[@artillerest43rdva7]

can you find any UV stabilized resin for the 3d printer? aluminum made tie plates would be very very costly! all the machining involved . the thicker are stronger less likely to fail. do you have a rough back on the tie plates? better gripping on the wood! great presentation about ties plates. hope all is well , Eric verified the improvement in the rail lack of movements.

[@MillBrookRailroad]

I have yet to find a UV stabilized resin. I am going to paint a batch once I've tweaked the design enough that they don't break during installation.

[@artillerest43rdva7]

@@MillBrookRailroad Aaron you are doing a great job! trying to obtain the optimal designed tie plates! thank you for the nice videos! just wondering, how long does it take to create the ties? thank you for your time, pet the kitties!

[@ndl6062]

That might keep them from curling but it won't make them less brittle; filament printers get cheaper every day...

[@ferky123]

Extrusion forming of aluminum would cut down on machining costs as you would have a rough shape it could be continuously milled. Automation would take care of drilling holes and cutting to length.

[@artillerest43rdva7]

@@ndl6062 what exactly is the difference between filament and regular 3d printers resin? are they having fine filaments in the resin acting like reinforced fiberglass? do they use carbon fibers? I am very high on the learning curve regarding these amazing new styled printers.

[@malcolmone1]

the tie plates you are using are solid ,and have no give in them ,hence them breaking under stress, as for the sleepers try some recycled plastic ones ,anyway its a ongoing job

[@MillBrookRailroad]

It is definitely an ongoing job.

[@solarusthelonghaulerrailfa3226]

Hey Arron are you ever going to switch your rail to accutie 😁👍

[@robinchristopherson8767]

If you paint the resin tie plates before installation it will increase the UV resistance and life expectancy.

[@bobtopps460]

it might be possible to make aluminium tie plates at home its possible to "mill" aluminium with a wood router light cuts and jigs is the key

[@neilbunston6551]

Just a question,why don't you great your ties before you pay them in waste engine oil.They really all last

[@mikeslater75]

What about painting the resin tie plate, the uv light is the issues, you need to protect it from uv light

[@MillBrookRailroad]

@mikeslater75 I'm going to paint a future run. After I tweak the design a little more.

[@katelights]

you should be able to sand cast aluminium plates using a 3d printed template.

[@MillBrookRailroad]

This project has continued to progress since I edited the video. I found someone who will cast aluminum tie plates for me.

[@jasonrusso9808]

G scale?

[@MillBrookRailroad]

@@jasonrusso9808 7-1/4" gauge. It's a bit bigger than G.

[@trainsimulatordriver]

You can 3d print metal, but since you need so many of these things and they're small why don't you make up some moulds and cast your own aluminium plates? It would be fairly easy and it wouldn't matter if the castings were not perfect.

[@MillBrookRailroad]

What would I need to cast in aluminum? I like the detail of lost wax casting, but I don't know the process.

[@jamesmoore2007]

Just print an insert or the acu-tie plate

[@Beni_777]

Hello, I think it would be financially and timewise better to make a mold for the tie downs, and just use waste plastic to make it.

[@chitownnemesis2182]

6061 is a mixture of steel and aluminum. I extruded enough of it to know.

[@MidnightVisions]

No 3D printed plastic will last exposed to the elements. You are wasting your money there. You should use aluminum tie plates under aluminum rails. Perhaps do a group buy with others who are in a similar situation.

[@southernprojectsyt6340]

S🤣😂🤣😅😂🤣o you printed plastic ties , overpaid for the machine, to replace plastic that very clearly failed... (sarcasticly) "Oh how wise".... roflmao.

[@theplumber33]

If you paint the tie plates, the sun will not degrade it as fast. Looks like the filament is the clear winner. 🫵👍✌️

[@rustyc521]

Time to start rebuilding the railroad and go with Accu tie rail, and plastic ties and hardware!🤷‍♂️😁

[@MillBrookRailroad]

@@rustyc521 I just don't have the budget for that. Even with KZbin revenue.

[@rustyc521]

@ I know my friend! I was just saying that to poke the bear and rattle your cage! However, if they would stop miss printing my lottery ticket, you would have enough track supplies to do that, and then build the rest of the entire railroad the way you want! And your railroad would be completed! But for some reason, they still to this day keep miss printing my lottery ticket…..🤷‍♂️

[@Marbelup]

Longer ties would help avoid splitting. My 7.25” gauge track is fully welded with steel ties, but they are 400 mm long, just over twice the gauge, which is similar to prototype track.

[@rustyc521]

@ 16” long ties would definitely benefit Aaron and definitely would stabilize his tracks tremendously and he wouldn’t have as many issues!