Why I swapped my TS Photon F4 Newton

I sold my TS Photon Newton telescope for something interesting - a TS ONTC Newton telescope! My reasons why I switched - in this video
#astrophotography #photon #ONTC

[@michaelbibby8636]

The TS 8" is just a rebranded GSO 200 800. They are well known to need some simple modifications (better springs on the collimation adjustment bolts, a bit of tape on the cork around the mirror to make sure the mirror doesn't move in the cell) to make sure they hold their collimation well, but I don't know what 'backlash' and 'grinding' problem you were having with the focuser. One thing people do to reduce tilt is to line the outer most edge of the copper ring in the draw tube with sticky tape, to slightly decrease the inside diameter of the clamping ring and help your coma corrector to stay on axis and reduce the possibility of tilt getting into your imaging train when you slowly tighten the screws, alternating between them. You can do the same thing to the coma corrector: slightly increase its diameter using a single layer of clear tape, or even masking tape, so it fits a bit better into the draw tube and further reduces the likelihood of tilt. Other common modifications are: flocking the tube, an aperture or mirror mask, mounting the fan on a plastic board to prevent stray light and help the fan to more effectively cool down the mirror and circulate up the tube, helping prevent the secondary from dewing up, and painting the back and sides of the secondary with chalk board paint. After all that, it is an extremely capable telescope.

[@ziggyfrnds]

"after all that, it is a completely capable telescope" seriously? 😂 But really you should totally write up a thread on this, you have great info on what's needed

[@scotiaastro]

Your new light bucket is looking VERY sharp, Chris! Best of luck with it and excited to see your results over the coming season!! :)

[@ChrizzlyUniverse]

Thank you Steve! Lets hope the rainy weather over Europe wont last forever Cheers! 🙌🏻

[@pimpmytoast]

I think your reasons are very relateable!

[@deltacx1059]

0:54 that mount looks like it shattered the bank account though.

[@haribo1966]

Hi Chris, I agree with your issues of the focuser. I have a 10“ carbon photon and had some problems with tilt caused by the focuser. Despite I found the friction screw very difficult to set up, because if the focuser worked fine for horizontal targets it didn‘t work properly for targets near the zenith. I didn‘t exchange the whole telescope because I found the carbon photon t be just fine. But ordered a lacerta octoplus focuser from telescope austria and I am very lucky and satisfied with this solution.

[@ChrizzlyUniverse]

Hey there! Agreed, sounds like another alternative solution for a complete swap. The focuser is like the core of the scope and a "make or break" component. Glad it works for you in the new config! Cheers!

[@testboga5991]

Very interesting video!

[@GalaxyArtMedia]

Good video! I amt hinking tot upgrade wo a larger aperture telescope, and a larger newtonian seems the logical step, for price and aperture. I am tring to find a good newtonian 8 to 10 inch, but not too expensive. Do you know if is much quality difference between the UNC and ONTC Series? the UNC ones i noticed there are not so flexible with differetn adaptations, but the price is much more accesible

[@Phenolisothiocyanate]

I've got a 10" ONTC with a 3" Feather Touch focuser on the way. Gonna pop a 3" Paracorr 2 into it with an ZWO OAG-L-64 for full frame imaging. The whole set up is gonna cost more than I like to think about but I'm looking forward to capturing some good images with it! (Hopefully lol)

[@ChrizzlyUniverse]

Wow, now that is a rig! That is a deep sky power scope, nice configuration! I also had a look at the full frame scopes but they were a bit too expensive for me to enter right away, but perhaps a few years in the future :) Good luck imaging and clear skies! ✨

[@damiengalanaud3817]

Interesting. In fact, I have a configuration exactly intermediate between your 2 scopes: The 6 inch Photon with the carbon fiber tube. I completely agree with you: the tube is light, has excellent rigidity and thermal stability, the optics are very good but the focuser is absolute crap, possibly the worst I ever used (an I own a large number of scopes !). I am looking to upgrade it to a rack and pinion one, but it is not very clear on TS website which one you can use. I will have to give them a phone call to buy the right stuff.

[@ChrizzlyUniverse]

Ah , good info. Yeah it seems we are not the only ones encountering these problems. Without this, the scope would be a pretty decent scope (also bang for the buck wise), but for now, I dont regret the swap 😄The new focuser is really something else! Good luck with your upgrade and clear skies! ✨

[@JakobSagatowski]

Looking at buying exactly the same scope at TS! Did you choose the F/4 or F/5 mirror? Regarding the tube-rings, TS provides them as aluminium rings, so it's weird you got them in plastic? Looking forward to more in-depth videos about this telescope! Cheers from Munich!

[@ChrizzlyUniverse]

Servus! :D I got the F4 and so far can recommend it (due to weather the usage was limited, but during clear skies it worked like a charm). Currently I'm still having a bit problems with my flats, but I think thats more of an issue because I dont use a flat panel (skyflats were not working as planned, but testing was again limited). And youre right, currently on the website they offer aluminium rings, but offer to choose variants during the purchase. Recommendation: Go for the Alu ones 😉 Clear skies! :)

[@JakobSagatowski]

@@ChrizzlyUniverse Servus! Thanks for the reply! I'm also leaning towards the F/4. I'm hoping I can use an Ipad + white t-shirt as a flat panel... it should be big enough! (good budget alternative maybe?) As I have not managed to find any other users of this telescope, I hope it's ok that I ask some more questions. 1. Do you use a coma-corrector for this telescope, if so, which one? I'm looking at the TSGPU 1x superflat, but at 100mm length, I'm afraid it will go to deep inside the focuser tube and interrupt some of the incoming light? 2. Do you know what the corrected image field is in your combination? 3. I'm currently using a 1" sensor camera (ASI 533MM Pro), but I would like to be able to photograph it with an APS-C sized sensor in future (like the 2600MM Pro), but not sure it will be possible? 4. What tools are you using to aid in collimation? Thanks again, and looking forward to future videos with this scope! (I've subcribed!)

[@ChrizzlyUniverse]

@@JakobSagatowski I think the iPad + shirt is a nice budget alternative👍🏻 Haha, I might have the only video up on youtube with this scope :D Sure, I'm happy to answer some questions: 1) Yes I do, I'm using the 2" TS 0,95 Maxfield corrector I already had with my Photon and continue imaging with it. This has a length of 72mm so its not obstructing anything. I just checked with my scope: 100mm with the focuser turned in completely would definetely reach into the tube...so it depends on the final focus position, but I would advise against the long one. 2) The Maxfield would illuminate up to 35mm (uses M48 thread) 3) Thats perfect, because I'm using this with a 1" and APS-C chip sensor, too. The 1" is no problem (duh!), but for the APS-C the secondary mirror with 70 mm is just slightly too small to illuminate an APS-C field completely. It still works, but you have to crop from the edges (example APS-C image from me with this scope: telescopius.com/pictures/view/152266/deep_sky/pinwheel-galaxy/M/101/galaxy/by-chrizzlys_observable_universe ) My advice: Ask TS on that topic and perhaps if they can use a slightly bigger secondary. For now I wont change it, but possibly as an upgrade in the future. 4) I'm mainly using a laser collimator and sometimes stars, but I only have a cheap laser. Thats one thing I need to upgrade, too. The scope itself is pretty handy, no tools needed, all screws are manual. Hope that answers some questions :) Clear skies und beste Grüße nach München!

[@JakobSagatowski]

@@ChrizzlyUniverse Thanks for the awesome answers! I'll contact TS and let you know what I decided for! Thanks for all tips and looking forward to more videos! Cheers!

[@loneoceans]

Hi Christian, thanks for the video! Was there a reason why you went down in size from an 8" to a 6" when you moved to the ONTC series? Was it due to what was in stock, or was it something else such as cost, size, focal length, or something else? I'm considering getting an ONTC and would prefer an 8" but it may be a little large and difficult to transport vs the 6", which I need to do for astrophotography. I'm also planning to pair it with a HAE29 like yours! Finally, if it is not too much to ask, may I know what is the external length of the ONTC6"f4 tube? I asked TS but did not receive a specific number, and would like to know for travel/transport. Thank you!

[@ChrizzlyUniverse]

Hello there, and thanks for watching! Valid questions you have there, let me try to answer them one by one: 1) Yes I would've loved to have a bigger ONTC scope, so it was not really a technical point, but more the price aspect 😄(combined with availability) I was planning for a while and then saw the 6" version in stock and just had to grab it 😆 Also for the bigger versions I was unsure whether I should upgrade my coma corrector... An ONTC > 6" is definetely on my wish list... But maybe in 3-5 years :D 2) Your idea to combine it with the HAE29 works well. IMO, the HAE29 suits it nicely (have done some sessions already, but plan mainly on the winter season to go all in with that combo). I would advise to have a look at the pier/pillar extension for the HAE29, I wouldnt want the scope to hit the legs (especially considering the high torque available to strain wave mounts^^). 3) The length of the tube is approx. 64 cm and the diameter of the outer edges is ~ 19 cm (not counting ring clamps, accessories and such). It is a bit easier to transport than my old 8" Photon, but overall I would say both sizes are still nice for transport. Hope this helps! 🙌🏻 Cheers and CS!🌌

[@loneoceans]

​@@ChrizzlyUniverse Thanks so much for the detailed response, I appreciate it. I'm still deciding between the two, but I am leaning towards the 6". The length of the 8" (especially ONTC with the longer tube) makes it almost impossible to fit into a reasonably-sized luggage if I do want to take it for travel on a plane (with the main mirror removed of course), while the 6" fits much more easily based on your measurements. For the Coma Corrector, I'm thinking of the Paracorr 2 - quite expensive, and it seems like it may protrude inside the main tube; the alternate is the 0.95x TS Maxfield. Do you have any thoughts about those? I'm looking forward to seeing your future images!

[@ChrizzlyUniverse]

​@@loneoceans No worries, glad if I can help! Ok, now I see, did not plan on taking the scope on a plane ride, so no restriction for my decision. For your question on the corrector: Can't really say much about the paracorr, only that I've read quite some positive stuff about it :D I'm still happy with my TS GPU 0,95x in this combination. The TS corrector is still short enough not to block anything in the main light path. Be careful though in your decision, the focuser is relatively short, so if you add a few more cm to the GPU, it would reach into the main tube (dont know hoe long the paracorr is). I think someone under this video has asked a similiar question, I think there I gave details (Check out my comment to Jakob Sagatowski). CS!

[@loneoceans]

@@ChrizzlyUniverse Thanks again for your reply! It does look like the Paracorr 2 is fairly short (76mm), so likely it will work OK, though the price tag is indeed quite high. The Starizona Nexus is another interesting one with 0.75x magnification and increases an f4 to an incredible f3, could be an interesting combo.

[@LogansAstro]

Always nice to get a new scope. Looking forward to seeing the first light images with it. Clear skies.

[@ChrizzlyUniverse]

Thanks! :)

[@ricktaylor1645]

why not upgrade the focus-er and tweak the tube, so many nice upgrades out there for newtons

[@uschi414]

Which focuser did you choose for your new 6" ONTC? I've been looking at the 8" ONTC for next year's galaxy season and it seems the focuser is a big part of the overall stability and consistency of the image from a Newtonian scope. I haven't decided which focuser to choose yet but I'm interested in your thoughts.

[@ChrizzlyUniverse]

Hey there, yes, the focuser plays a major role in stability of the optical train and is a total different level as the TS Photon focuser from my old scope! The 6" ONTC version I got was already preconfigured with a 2" R&P focuser with toothgear (Zahntrieb), but if I would have configured it myself for a larger Newtonian (>= 8") and money was no issue, I'd choose the 3" feather touch focuser. I have read good things about that one and another commenter hear also went for the feathertouch. For the larger Newtons 3" focusers are interesting for nice full frame illumination and use of 3" coma correctors. Clear skies!

[@uschi414]

@@ChrizzlyUniverse thanks for the reply. Since I use an APS-C (IMX 571) camera I don't technically need the 3" focuser...but it'd be cheaper to get it now if I want to upgrade to full-frame in the future. Decisions decisions. :)

[@ChrizzlyUniverse]

@@uschi414 haha, I can totally follow your thoughts! The configuration possibilities dont help the decision process 😄

[@tubedude54]

I've been looking to purchase from TS but the have no vendors here in the states which makes shipping costs extremely high for scopes.

[@ChrizzlyUniverse]

Ah thats unfortunate! I sometimes have the same problems for purchasing in U.S. shops (+ VAT). These TS scopes are built here in Germany, so I think theres no possibility and no way around it - only if you find a used one somewhere in the states. Clear skies!

[@tubedude54]

@@ChrizzlyUniverse I had a conversation with one of their reps recently and he said they were looking at entering the US market for scopes but hadn't made a decision if they will. I do believe he said that they sell small items thru a company in Canada so that might be who they go thru... hope they do.

[@limebulls]

Um anfangs das Budget bei 1000 Euro +- 500 Euro zu halten, würde ich gerne das Photon F4 Newton auf eine Dobson Halterung / Rocker Box stellen. Hast du eine Idee welche ich da nehmen könnte? Ist das möglich? Danach würde ich irgendwann upgraden auf eine GoTo Halterung für Aufnahmen mit langer Exposurezeit

[@ChrizzlyUniverse]

Hi! Einfach nur für visuellen Einsatz oder auch mit Fotografie? Mit Dobson wirst du wirklich nur recht kurz belichten können bei 800mm, bzw dann eher auf helle Ziele wie Mond/Planeten gehen müssen 🤔 (Deepsky Nebel könnten schwierig werden) Hab da leider keine Erfahrung was so ne Halterung angeht, aber hab damals mit ner manuellen Skywatcher NEQ-3 angefangen, falls das hilft. Da konnte ich dann später Motoren nachrüsten. Clear skies!

[@limebulls]

⁠​⁠@@ChrizzlyUniverse​​⁠​⁠spannend was du sagst! Ist das EQ3 wirklich für das 8,4kg schwere Photon T4 Newton (Metal) geeignet? Oder braucht man doch eher ein EQ5?

[@ChrizzlyUniverse]

@@limebulls Ne, mit der EQ-3 wirst du mit dem Photon auch nicht glücklich wenn du lang belichten willst, wollte dir nur mitgeben wie ich angefangen hab 😉 Für Fotografie direkt wäre die EQ5 schon deutlich besser geeignet. Mit großen Brennweiten braucht man (leider) auch gute Montierungen 🤔

[@snowzero123]

5:16 Your cem70 looks like dec backlash?

[@ChrizzlyUniverse]

Hey, yes in this image in the graphs it looks like that. That was during my first light experience, I later tightened a belt and now it is not an issue anymore. Might also be due to unbalanced load there. Clear skies!

[@grandmasteryoda9893]

how solid is the spider, heard many newts have realy flexy spiders

[@ChrizzlyUniverse]

Hi, which one do you mean? Photon or the ONTC? With the ONTC, the spider holding the secondary mirror is quite sturdy. Better quality than the Photon imo. CS!

[@grandmasteryoda9893]

@@ChrizzlyUniverse was thinking on ontc yes.

[@BrokenPik]

is that a Fender Jazz master Bass.

[@ChrizzlyUniverse]

Nope, its a Marcus Miller Bass :)

[@BrokenPik]

​@@ChrizzlyUniverse Wow!!

[@anata5127]

What about Takahashi 180mm? Did you consider it?

[@ChrizzlyUniverse]

Hello! Yes, also had a look at the Tak's and from a quality perspective I would totally consider it, but they were a bit too expensive for now (+ price for accessories if required). Also considered the Skywatcher scopes for going bigger, but thats something for the future maybe 😄 CS!

[@anata5127]

@@ChrizzlyUniverse Sky-Watcher Newtonians are awful.

[@ChrizzlyUniverse]

@@anata5127 Oh, okay? In terms of quality or performance? Only had my small one for visual use, so I wasnt able to compare the photo performance. So you would discourage a purchase?🤔

[@anata5127]

@@ChrizzlyUniverse Their Newtonian need a lot of adjustments. Masking mirrors, blocking light leaks, painting black inside, insulating second mirror, changing second mirror holder, etc.

[@ChrizzlyUniverse]

@@anata5127 okay, didnt know that, thank you for these infos! So I might not be leaning towards Skywatcher scopes in the future 🤔

[@woody5109]

You think your last telescope was bad, I bought an 8” Orion, complete crap.

[@matforsbon]

It looks so F..stupid with two cameras and only looking at one that I couldn't watch anymore.