Why is Armour SO BAD in Path of Exile 2?

[@foowii4421]

Ridiculous that mages can tank any hit and warriors are like paper.

[@jkurratt]

Make sense in a world where magic is powerful and warriors are just mere mortals.

[@matgod2004]

@@jkurratt At that point, delete half the tree, half the classes and rename the game to Path of Mages...

[@libor2010]

just like RL workers get fucked while smart people on top profit.

[@marinbah2401]

@@jkurratt thats why magic armours should actually do something lol

[@alejandronunez7650]

@@jkurratt the problem is that POE 2 sold the idea of the *TITAN* like this big tanky dude that stacks a bunch of life and armour and becomes strong? which is totally bullcrabe in this current energy shield meta..

[@NaquadahEOD]

"Try to die less than people building armor do." Fucking ouch brother. That hurt.

[@ravenspromise4925]

getting hurt by an outtro is a red flag mentally.

[@Illumeoce]

@@ravenspromise4925 taking internet comments seriously is a red flag mentally.

[@NaquadahEOD]

@@Illumeoce To be fair he was probably joking as well lol. At least I hope so.

[@blazedehart2748]

4:50 I don’t think that finding specific unique items should be required to make armor useful though.

[@warcheddar4163]

that was never said in this video, also i think your timestamp is a bit off (i assume you wanted to link to the fourth vow moment). But anyway the divine flesh + fourth vow isnt needed to make armour useful, its a cool interaction that can boost the usefulness of armour to even higher levels. I do feel like armour only affacting phys damage by default is a bit stange, but i guess evasion only affects hits and not aoe, and energy shield... is broken bc CI exists.

[@irrelevant12]

what about specific deterministic bench crafts on both helmet and chest a long side with deterministic nodes in the tree. In poe 1 you don´t need specific uniques as you put it. You can ignore lightnin coil and just copy a 300 000 armor dreamfeather 5Millon dps build, the options exist. What you probably don´t like is having to heavily and cheaply invest and expect HUGE returns from that minor investment, and i don´t think that is the direction they want.

[@archeremiya3533]

@@warcheddar4163 I think he's likely thinking about dawnbreaker/lightning coil, they feel kind of mandatory for builds to not feel squishy when doing high end content on armor/evasion characters in POE1.

[@bobothebob4716]

@@archeremiya3533 The stated goals was to fix the game and promote melee builds, and in fact they have done the complete opposite. Unless you have a spare 100 divines sitting around it's easier to just roll a spark build spend 50 ex on some crappy Rarity gear and roll the entire game while being virtually immortal.

[@I_Am_Empyrean]

@@bobothebob4716 This right here.

[@minhocho5487]

One thing i never understood was how evasion can evade all elemental hit while armor cannot mitiagte elemental hits.

[@riddixdan5572]

I wonder, how does DOT work with armor vs evade tho? as far as I know, you can't evade DOT but will armor mitigate it?

[@specialmag7]

It makes sense thematically or from a real life perspective for armor to not mitigated elemental or chaos damage. But would it be more balanced if it did? Hard to tell. But in PoE 1, armor was superior to evasion even with only physical dmg mitigation. In PoE, it needs some love apparently.

[@Legz_inStyle]

Evasion can't evade spells and abilities with auto hits, armour can.

[@peterjensen9507]

@@Legz_inStylewith acrobatic it can

[@minhocho5487]

@@riddixdan5572 In what universe does armor mitigate dot? IDK if they did change it with poe 2, but in poe1, bleed and corrupted blood was so powerful because it bypassed armor.

[@stephenknox2346]

The base mechanic of armor should be useful, without needing a combination of uniques, annoints, and keystones. It isn't.

[@AlanZ684]

It is useful, it’s not suppose to the only layer of defense.

[@gr33dl0cknein3]

@@AlanZ684 it isn't. Did you not watch the video?

[@epyjacek]

​@@AlanZ684Exactly, they want armor to be the defense. Maybe it will be when more things get added, but right now I recommend layers of defense. Armor is great for mitigating small hits here as well. Dodge the slams boys.

[@rewik962]

Funnily enough in current state it's bad even with all this shit.

[@AlanZ684]

@@gr33dl0cknein3 Why do I need to watch the video when I play the game myself. Monk gets signifyingly tanker with the ascendency that turns evasion into armor. Just relying on one form of defense will never get you anywhere. I suggest doing your own research instead of blindly following what other people say.

[@maltekobarg2062]

Hot take: pre nerf Juggernaut Unbreakable (8% of Armour applies to Elemental damage from hits) should be either baseline for Armour or a bottom left notable. Armour reducing Ele dmg should not be locked behind a mandatory unique or a single acendency again (4th vow) and needs to just be baseline for how much extra hits you will take. Fortify, Endurance charges, Unbreakable, Remove Overwhelm and a buff to Armour scaling and you will still be better of with ES Witch, Archmage or Deadeye. But these are the scale of buffs we need. Phys shift is kinda awful if it just ends up with Pathfinders being 3 times tankier than 100k Armour Juggernauts again.

[@archangel6295]

Armor reducing elemental damage at the base will fundamentally break the games damage balance, you will literally take zero damage from elemental hits, cope harder chud.

[@SteveJohnson-d1d]

@@archangel6295 Yes melee has to be in melee to do damage thus they should be tankier then EVERYONE ELSE

[@maltekobarg2062]

​@@archangel6295 Meanwhile 10k ES grim feast Witches...

[@arturxavier1481]

what is overwhelm?

[@SteveJohnson-d1d]

@@arturxavier1481 If a hit is over a certain number based on a formula the armor becomes less effective meaning a smaller percent of it is reduced. EX: 100 damage hit will be reduced by 30% 1000 damage would be reduced by 3% Not the exact formula but the concept.

[@silviomedeiros3248]

How do you even communicate to the player that armor is not intended to reduce damage from boss attacks? It's so completely opposite of what a player thinks when he thinks of armor. This whole system should change.

[@blackomega34]

You communicate it by taking a lot of damage when hit lol

[@mezu-e]

Maybe keep overwhelm and armor break to just the boss attacks that would normally kill everyone else. Let the armor guy survive but now he has to dodge perfectly. (And remove any movement debuff when the armor breaks, maybe have keystones that improve mobility when armor gets broken or health gets chunked)

[@bobothebob4716]

You communicate it by seeing that 93% of people aren't playing 2/3rds of the classes because they are ass and the 2 that are actually viable take about 8 hours to max out and become immortal with ES or Evade on. O wait...

[@I_Am_Empyrean]

I completely disagree. The armour formula is convoluted and unintuitive. There is nothing in the game that actually explains the armour formula, you are given a percentage and that's it. That percentage isn't even remotely accurate towards what your armour is doing. Additionally, your armour should be protecting you from big hits. There's no reason a character that trades damage for armour should be getting one shot by a physical attack, ever. Especially when wearing heavy armours decreases your movement speed and therefore your capability to dodge those slow and heavy hits. I can't be the only one that watched temporalis blink builds and asked myself why there aren't more abilities in the game that allow you to reposition. If there's no readily available movement abilities, then defenses should be more effective at mitigating damage. I think that's fair.

[@gr33dl0cknein3]

there's no "weight" to gear in poe, newbie. Ever body armor has a -4% mov spd penalty and that's it. Wearing STR armor has no further penalties. You're so bold with wanting to reformulate the game when you don't even know how things work. Maybe learn to play before being a backseat game designer.

[@MisfitMonkey]

@@gr33dl0cknein3 Geez, relax kid. Way too dank.

[@hobodohlansteve8795]

As much as I agree with armour being dog, the game does say "the reduction depends on the hit" if you mouse over it. So it does hint at how it works, while it doesn't tell you just exactly how badly it will actually perform.

[@sabertram8290]

⁠@@gr33dl0cknein3 Ironically, in your attempt to appear smarter, it’s just asinine pseudo-intellectualism based on your need to be an elitist. You don’t have to agree with the poster, but instead it would make a lot more sense and to address whether you think that Armor Defense in POE is fine as-is and whether the class that is most apt to be “tanky” should be 1-shotted in this game in the amount of circumstances that they currently do in spite of building towards their natural defensive option, which is Armor. Deciding to nitpick on game mechanic details the poster isn’t accurate on bears no bearing on the big picture on why he shared the opinion in the first place. Grow up by prioritizing what actually adds to the discussion rather than stroking your own ego at the cost of others.

[@blablablablibliblibloubloublou]

​@@gr33dl0cknein3 being a STR focused character can indeed have some indirect movement penalties. Movement abilities like blink are faster for short repositioning than the STR equivalent like shield charge, and as a STR you probably don't have the INT to equip blink. Adding the fact that big beefy armor STR character often found themself in close combat we can indeed conclude that being main STR could have implication in the time you took to evade that big boss hit. Anyway IMO either ES is ovetuned or armor need to be buffed but this aspect of the game is in a bad spot. Same with increased rarity, the economy is fcked for more than half the player base.

[@treeNum3]

Armour is mechanically way inferior to ES or evasion that works with all hit damage types, not only phys. I don't get why armour doesn't work on all damage types. Specially being focused on melee that have to tank a lot of hits. If we compare it to Evasion is bad, if we compare to ES it is terrible.

[@nightyonetwothree]

because es is not damage metigation mechanic. It's flat hp-alternative while armor metigate damage, ie increase effectivness of hp/es.

[@reivelt3715]

@@nightyonetwothree true this, but the problem maybe lies in the amount of hp not enough even when armour already mitigate the damage

[@binhvan4893]

​​@@nightyonetwothree that is how armour was supposed to work but in reality it isnt, no matter how much armour you can stack, you would still get oneshot pretty easily if the dmg is higher than what your armour can mitigate, which is not even that high to begin with. That is not including things like armour break from the white mobs rendering your sole mean of survival useless. Meanwhile, you can stack like 10k es, double it with grim feast to bring it up to 20k es and still has millions of dps without much sacrifice.

[@nightyonetwothree]

@@reivelt3715 yes, the problem is in big chunky damage oneshots.

[@nightyonetwothree]

@@binhvan4893 so pple running 8k health with 80+% phys reduction cant mitigate damage? 8k/0.2 = 40k phys max hit. And it can be higher. Es sure better to tank single hit, but if we are talking about 2-3 hit serie, es go worse and worse. Burning ground is unplayable for es builds. Etc

[@owlmostdead9492]

Armour is complete garbage, I know it. I’m running T14 with my first character, a warrior titan and even for mapping armour is terrible. Random mobs will break your armour and one-shot you, even with almost 30.000 armour and “87% reduction”. GGG just can’t do melee or math.

[@Tsuusetsu]

I think we need a few notables in the warrior tree that defend against armor break and overwhelm. Something like. " Your armor can't be broken beyond 50%. " Or "Armor break is 25% less effective against you and has 25% less duration on you." As for overwhlem. " You ignore the first 20% of overwhelm on you. " Just make 2-4 nodes scattered around the tree, next to or included with pure armor nodes. Maybe even a keystone.

[@owlmostdead9492]

@@Tsuusetsu No, a few notables are not going to cut it. Armour needs a complete rework and be less overly complicated for no performance it delivers, it should do what it says. If I have 30.000 armour and the game says "90% physical reduction" then I should also only take 10% of physical damage, simple as that.

[@AllocatesBeef]

I never die to armour break and I think it's only because I can stun enemies so quickly. I like stun being an important defensive layer for warrior but it shouldn't be a case of 'stun this rare mob immediately or he will ignore all your defenses'. Armour break map mod is also ridiculous, might as well be reflect mod for warrior builds.

[@Hukas01]

The game would degrade into a stack armor and resist then only stack damage. It would make evasion useless. Armor needs work, I think damage shift would make it more convoluted and should be avoided(see sunfire cloak), but it should not be as simple as what you’re character sheet says.

[@saschaberger7201]

@@Hukas01 true it can never be as simple as your character sheet says with all the shit in the game and things mobs can have unless they just dumb it down like crzy

[@Lolatyou332]

7:20 Who is able to get 5K health? You literally have to have perfect gear, max out strength just to hit 4K

[@tomogburn2462]

Jewels with % life

[@OCrAcIK]

not even alk with hundreds of hours already could hit 5k with his titan. people coping hard

[@demystake]

Exactly! 4k health is pretty invested str stacking character while 8k shield you can get almost accidentally, while having over 2k life on top of it.

[@aw2031zap]

Armor passive skills need to fix this, so mages just can't use armor too, lol. Basically, why does every ES node give you 60% or 30% es, but armor basically gives you 1% ehp for each notable.

[@Tsuusetsu]

I think most ES nodes are lower than that. But my guess would be that ES naturally comes in lower numbers, while amror comes in larger numbers. You can get 2-4k armor on a chest piece, your lucky to get 1k on an ES.

[@Lolatyou332]

​@@Tsuusetsu Yeah but 2-4K armour isn't health.. It's only eHP against ONLY physical damage. The hardest hitting hits in the game are all non-physical damage which amplifies the issue with warriors because they literally have to dance around all those BS chaos plants and lightning bolts to not just insta die.

[@RessG]

@@Lolatyou332 True

[@MyNameIsSalo]

tbh ES is super overtuned and I'm expecting those nodes to get cut to around 1/5th the value. Like small nodes = 2%, big node = 8%

[@namejudge9136]

​@@MyNameIsSalo thats a 1000% nerf??? Relax dawg

[@PrzemP]

Tanker should be a viable archetype, if you invest in defense you should be able to tak big hits.

[@iSlowhands]

Not during GGGs watch. They get a hard on for killing the player.

[@MisfitMonkey]

Absolutely, and it is, just without armour main stat and more armour/evade/block stacking atm.

[@WitherAndrot]

But then it means that dodgeroll would be useless, you don't understand, poe should be like dark souls, and elden ring should be like breathe of the wild.

[@ShiroArquien]

​@@WitherAndrotdark souls would allow you to be a chonker and eat hits and power through.

[@johnWayne-df6rm]

​@@WitherAndrot You should try those games.

[@konzmonz6315]

@zizaran there are also practically no life nodes on tree. In order to be tanky and deal damage, warriors are forced into using a shield + 2h which forces you into strength stacking which does not allow any evasion. It does not feel like there are choices to be made.

[@Warsign01]

75% armour and 65% block warrior, max resist and i was one shot by 2 white mob spear chucking mobs while casting HOTG. T10 map.

[@grkwang2777]

73% armour, Max Resist, Max Block. 3.8k hp. A white miner throw a little dynamite at me and I got one shotted. T15 map.

[@ethanlarge3572]

@@grkwang2777 hi I just want to point out that there is no such thing as “73% armour.” The number on your character sheet is completely wrong (or, more specifically, is correct only for a small range of scenarios). The damage reduction armour provides is variable, depending on the quantity of damage it’s being applied to.

[@saschaberger7201]

@@grkwang2777 ye u only have 73% against a poop mob that has zdps (wich none of the mobs in maps have) so it basically says u got 73% for a lvl 20mob if u are lvl 80 xD

[@JR41N3]

@@ethanlarge3572 yes, this is exactly why the discussion being had is armor being useless and misleading.

[@Lolatyou332]

Doesn't get any better because of elemental damage only having a 75% limit without major investments to increase it. I have 88% armour, 75% block, 3K HP. Still struggle with survivability because of elemental damage... I had to put on all the nearby recoup nodes I could find in combination with instant leech and 10% or so leech on life and mana

[@Elinyaa2]

I can totally get behind "Armour is not supposed to make boss slams tankable", but one of the problems PoE2 currently has is: Even some white mobs have "boss slams" (or at least close to it), because part of the endgame is still bizarrely balanced around the dodge roll... that or "just be ranged lol"

[@JordaanM]

A lot of design decisions in the game seem to boil down to "just be ranged lol".

[@Raionhardt]

Armor is dogshit. Energy shield is better for everything. Saying that armor "isnt for bossing" while you can tank hits with energy shield is moronic. Also, if poe2 wants to make it so you cant tank any boss hits, then maps shouldnt be 1 try only

[@MisfitMonkey]

Armor is not for bossing, its been a core philosophy for GGG since the inception of the game. ES neing too tanky right now does not negate that Armor is not for bossing. He said ES is way too good and will get nerfed, he said armour formula needs to be improved, he's on your side if you just paid attention.

[@Raionhardt]

@MisfitMonkey I paid attention. I'm allowed to have an opinion. It's dumb to say armor isn't for bossing as a core concept in any game. Poe isn't perfect

[@MisfitMonkey]

@@Raionhardt I wasnt saying you cant have the opinion that armor isnt for bossing is bad design. I was saying it in context that youre saying its because ES is too tanky so armour not being for bossing doesnt make sense to you. Just isn't a good comparison imo when ES is going to get a massive nerf making it feel a lot more like armour.

[@MisfitMonkey]

@@Raionhardt So just to give you some #'s if you have 3.5k life with armour versus 20k ES. Grim feast is DOUBLING ES, ES nodes are like 30-60% bonus ES, ghostwrithe is one of the best ES chests in the game. So Nerfing skill tree, nerfing grim feast, ES will likely take at least a 50% nerf, thats 10k ES at best, if you have armour on a 3.5k life character thats equal to at least 10k ES on regular small hits, with big hits its closer to 5k life. NOW we add in the tools that are currently missing for phys conversion like fortify, phys to ele, flat phys reduction nodes and no one would be complaining about armour because even with just one of those against big hits armour/life would be closer to 7-8k ES equiv which is way closer. So things we can reasonably expect already, Armour formula getting a buff making it even better for small hits and moderate hits and slightly better for larger hits. Life will get a stat bump effectively buffing armour characters. We will get new tools for dmg reduction. Recoup may get a buff, along with many other changes. This whole Armour/ES thing you just gotta realize its too early to be so hot headed when very soon armour could be far better than ES and it will just be ES complainers then. Temper your criticisms.

[@Zizaran]

I dont think ES should tank boss slams either chill holy fuck

[@Warintello]

Nothing in this video addresses anything Kripp said. He actually said everything about how PoE1 armor works. Armor is still bad especially with how HP works in PoE2. Armor is only good in the first game because you're forced to move damage into other elements and have like 4+ layers of defense above it.

[@MarkoLomovic]

He is not addressing what kripp said in his video duh

[@Warintello]

@MarkoLomovic Listen bro, I like Ziz too. But he said he disagreed with somethings Kripp said but in actuality he repeated that Kripp said. The video even further emphasizes how bad armor is in both games due to how you need multiple layers to push off it. Anyway GGG needs to rework armor and I hope they do.

[@DrDanQ92]

I have an idea for how to balance a game; remove all life nodes and make armor crap, keep all ES nodes and buff them.

[@Jordyn-p8k]

You’re hired!

[@KyuKyuChan]

Why shouldn't armour be the solution tho? Because of the devs weird "vision"? While my evasion IS the solution for EVERY hit in one mechanic. This feels contradictory and just flat out weird. All defences should be viable for everything, it's the scaling curve that needs adjustment. Because armour needs 10 different mechanics on top to feel DECENT, while I run 3000hp/3500ward/77% evasion and don't care in the slightest about anything.

[@kerckmars]

But why is armor not meant for big hits, seem arbitrary since all other defenses allow for you to tank the hits other then the tank stat of armor. I can aafk evade all hits, can block everthing, can have so much es it doesnt matter. But armor,, nothing can save armor

[@MisfitMonkey]

in Poe1 evade characters would just insta pop if their evade didnt work whilst armour characters would have a chance to survive, but its roughly the same on the big hits. If you consider life regen/leech/recoup work better if you dont die immediately so armour should never be a 1 to 1 with evade, but clearly the formula is far from being good enough right now, evade is more than 2x effective versus armour on rare mobs/bosses. A lot of the tanky feeling in Poe1 on big hits came not from armour but from the phys conversion/reduction tools, armour was at most half and for most people a quarter. It really is just a disparity of tools right now.

[@saschaberger7201]

we dnt know why nor does Ziz but he knows what ggg said in the past and what they are obviously balancing the game around wich is armor isnt meant for big hits

[@Lolatyou332]

​@@MisfitMonkey if you have a large enough health pool, evasion / block is good enough assuming you can recover from the sustained and burst damage taken. Armour would only be good if you can also survive and recover from burst and sustained damage... Right now you cannot, you got people partially maxed in endgame with 3k HP and 4K only on the VERY very maxed playerbase who completelt dropped all magic find equipment.

[@ProxCyde]

You _should_ imo be able to focus more on armor, lose some dps and clear speeds because of it, but in turn end up with a tankier character! I do not see the problem with this at all. For some, that'll feel too slow. For others, they'd prefer to not constantly having to dodge everything and pay attention 24/7 against trash mobs. This just helps build diversity. Not break it.

[@punitgandecha5043]

Thats the whole reason why i picked warrior over monk on release. I saw in trailer that maps will be lost when you die plus bosses have one attempt only. I thought if i pick monk who is fast but fragile I will face a lot of frustration rather i pick warrior kill slow and die less. But boy was i wrong

[@dialtone83]

I don't think making warrior lose more clear speed would be a good trade. They are already slowest.

[@saschaberger7201]

when did ziz say u shouldnt be able to be tankier? there is a difference between tanky, and beeing able to ignore all mechanics and just eat super heavy hitting charged attacks from bosses lol...

[@breakthecode4634]

You missed so many issues with armor and just glazed over the fact that even with armor supposed to reduce small hits, regular mobs are sometimes hitting as hard as bosses. Armor does nothing for you in poe2

[@mjvoce]

the only reason normal mobs would be doing that much physical damage is because of overwhelm which he specifically talked about.

[@ziimbrotmg3981]

@@mjvoce not rly, they do that sometiems as baseline, especially rare mobs, its not like overwhelm is the only thing that kills u it just makes it 10x worse

[@breakthecode4634]

@@ziimbrotmg3981 this guy gets it

[@mjvoce]

@@breakthecode4634 no he doesn't. no normal mob is doing as much physical damage as a boss without overwhelm. you can literally look up the damage values on poedb. you're objectively wrong.

[@I_Am_Empyrean]

@@mjvoce You're just objectively wrong, map mods + rare/magic mods can result in 1000%+ damage on hits. The worse part is that these hits aren't 6s+ choreographed hits, they are

[@acidrage9311]

"I'm a new player in PoE, and to be honest, I don't feel I can recommend the game to my friends because it doesn't feel rewarding at all. All upgrades seem to have to be bought from the auction house, and I'm not getting anything worthwhile from playing the game. Currently, I'm a level 85 Warrior, mapping T14s."

[@m.h.4907]

That's because of this Ruthless garbo gearing. PoE doesn't suffer from it, just PoE2

[@gregorycoleman2149]

You SHOULD be able to facetank when mace skills take a year to use lol. Warriors should be able to trade with bosses. If you build super tanky

[@brosseki]

2:10 than why even have armour stats lol. Bruh i respect most of your opinion but this..."they dont want you to face tank" opinion of ziz is so fking foolish to listen to. Armour should be and only be for face tanking the damage that used to one shot you. Thats it. Other wise why even have the stat? Ziz is over thinking this too much.

[@MisfitMonkey]

Bro... Armour ALONE is not meant for face tanking. In Poe1 we have many tools that can help you face tank a lot lot more. You can face tank if you want, when the tools are back in Poe2 which he said should be and will be coming in the future. You need to step down the dankness my friend cause he's saying what you want just not in the exact wording you want to hear.

[@Zizaran]

It seems pretty clear that slow windups are meant to be dodged, not facetanked

[@NoirTenshin]

@@Zizaran my 2 cents, armor is there to protect you. From big and from small hits, it's just it's effectiveness should be different. You should not be able to facetank everything a boss throws at you( especially mechanics that are made to be a oneshot if failed), but it should allow you to trade damage (especially as a melee char). The whole fantasy of a brawler is to hit and get hit during the process. From what I understand, you practically aren't able to do that in poe2 in endgame.

[@Zizaran]

@@NoirTenshin then it sounds like we agree lol

[@marcinmichalik5040]

​​​@@Zizaranso make it consistant. 20k es can facetank, enough evasion with acro can evade the slam, armour can't do any of this. Either make it so, that realy big, telegraphed attacks are one shots, regardless of defences, or let armour tank it.

[@implosesgm]

Tbh, except boss fights, what else isn't bad in PoE2? Everything that was ported from PoE1 is somekind worse than it was. Where the "devs that play arpgs" went? Are they all working for PoE1?

[@saschaberger7201]

in fact the poe1 and poe2 teams are different devs yes

[@saschaberger7201]

they even have some diablo devs on their team now O,o

[@JordaanM]

I'll go a step further, a number of the bosses in PoE2 are just awful. The titan in the grotto where melee champs have to just stand at the edge of the arena and attack his hand is anti-fun. The Molten Vault boss being a timed DPS check that also runs backwards into lava making in inaccessible to melee for 1/2 the fight is stupid. The flying bosses that spend 3/4 of the fight unhittable are just wasting everyone's time. The bosses that blink around a large arena forcing you to run up to them, land 2 hits, then suffer through another invuln phase.

[@МистерТвистер-н4я]

They said they gonna changed how the armor works in poe 2, they didnt say how exactly. Now we know, by making it worse than it is in poe 1, at least in poe 1 you could stack it to millions or use charges, here you dont have nothing like that at all lol.

[@iSlowhands]

"Armor in PoE 1 is amazing" Uses Exarch shield with phys conversion for mitigation. Come on dude, just... come on. Let Kripp take this one out to GGG, okay?

[@MisfitMonkey]

What, you're joking right? Phys conversion has been a massive part of POE1 defense for a very very long time, along with its many other tools. Comparing POE1 with all its tools to POE2 should be a very obvious thing to do... If we had all the tools from POE1, armour would not be bad even if the formula sucks ass right now which it does and Ziz said SHOULD be improved. Seriously what is wrong with peoples reading and listening comprehension these days stop being so ANTI when you WANT something that someone does not explicitly say in the TONE that you would prefer. He's on your fucking side.

[@RG32822]

In PoE1 Armour tends to be preferred to Evasion because Evasion works until it doesn't and then you die. The best in PoE1 is mixing multiple types, hybrid Armor/Evasion bases, and Phys conversion.

[@Zizaran]

Ye im not convinced you watched my video

[@Uelibertiga]

@@MisfitMonkey If I have to convert incoming physical damage to elemental then armor isn´t doing it´s job.

[@saschaberger7201]

@@Uelibertiga now thats some garbage take right there, u dnt HAVE to in poe1, it just makes armor a lot stronger wich is why it feels so much better. also with how ggg wants armor to be/work in poe1 it absolutely makes sense and doesnt mean at all armor is doin its job or not. if that would be the case then u would have to say the same bout allmost every defensive layer cause u want to stack them onto ea other no matter what, u never have to it will just make your life a lot easier and make u tankier

[@cumulonimbus8984]

came here for info on poe 2. learned about poe 1.

[@didasek]

You are not allowed to disagree with Kripp

[@ToMaSsS10]

Kripp knows his shit

[@MikeyJ28]

@@ToMaSsS10 Kripp is a knowledgeable player but his speciality is hardcore/ssf/ruthless. A lot of that knowledge or build experience isn’t necessarily applicable to SC trade league.

[@souravsuman368]

Yes😂

[@ToMaSsS10]

@@MikeyJ28 So what?

[@DemCheeks666]

Ofcourse you are that's the point in having your own opinion lol

[@ivayloindzhov8553]

Okay, so as a relatively new player (a bit under 5k hours played), this is the logic I find in both PoE 1 and 2: 1. I want to play an evasion character? I stack evasion and pick up an evasion keystone (Acrobatics / Phase acrobatics). 2. I want to play an energy shield character? I stack energy shield and pick up an energy shield keystone (Chaos Inoculation). 3. I want to play an armor character? I use 3 specific uniques, look for 5 specific item mods, use endurance charges, fortify, and one ascendancy of one class, oh and 2 or 3 keystones. So...why must armor be so much more complicated? I sincerely do NOT understand.

[@ShiroArquien]

It was the same way in poe 1 but melee had access to phy dmg taken converted to ele which saved it. Fourth vow being an example or juggs ascendancy.

[@londoahv]

@@ShiroArquien The issue is if a solution to mitigating physical damage is solved by "dont use physical mitigation" then the entire mitigation is screwed up. Conversion should be a viable method to solve physical mitigation for builds that DONT stack armor, so that they can replace (part of) their 10-20% displayed armor reduction with 75%+ elemental reduction, but not for people with 90%+ displayed reduction to forgo using it. I agree that that was the way in poe1 and it is what it is, no changing that without taking into account the innumerable ways people will break the game. But with poe2 they got a chance to try and fix that issue from the beginning.

[@chackz2128]

​@ShiroArquien "melee had access" no we dont want to use damage conversion we are forced to use it cause otherwise we would be dead 6 times every t17

[@PROdotes]

Here's the question tho... WHY should I not be able to take big hits? Wouldn't it be better for players if they could pick to sacrifice damage for defence? Cause people have been dropping defence and just going full dps, and they are doing better than people trying to optimize defence... why not make it a choice for gearing and passives... I can either go full dps, full defence, or a little of both so most stuff will not kill me, but big hits I still need to dodge...

[@steamh4mmer264]

@@PROdotes best defense is oneshotting the Boss before they can do anything

[@zombe22]

First of all, I belive Ziz's point here was about armour specificaly, and it is intended to protect against small hits. For huge hits you should use either ES (for more hp, but it works a little too well now) or evasion (which is a problem with real big his - slams - look for my comment here about it). Second, as Ziz said, that is what dodge roll is for in this game. It is your way of getting away from big hits, and for it to make sence in the first place you should not be able to tank them all with your face. Now, it does not mean that I justify going full dps. I belive defences (including life, block and even ms in that regard) are meant to protect you from dying while mapping and give you some chance for mistake while bossing. And that is where difference between defences should be: armour is for small hits, evasion/block for bigger ones, ES is more versatile but should be worse than armour and evasion in respective situations. And MS, well, it makes your life easier overall, but also makes is easier to get away from AoE hits in the first place (including dodge roll as part of MS).

[@PROdotes]

@@zombe22 Imagine if every damage type worked like that... "resistance is for small elemental hits, spell evasion is for big ones, chaos resist is for small chaos hits, you need chaos evasion for the big ones"... and so on... Why is physical damage the only exception... why is it ok to have armor on 1 piece of gear and that's it... imagine if you could get away with having fire res on 1 piece of gear and that's fine for 80% of the content... I feel if armor is there to help mitigate physical damage, it should do what it says on the tin... mitigate physical damage...

[@zombe22]

@@PROdotes Okay, you make a lot of sence actually. Here might be some argument on how resistanes are not one of three main defences, but I am too used to how it is in PoE1, so I will not argue and say that it should be that way. For me it is kinda ok as I am used to it, if only we had defences properly balanced.

[@PROdotes]

@@zombe22 I don't think they should make it too simple, kinda like in d4 where X armor is always X reduction... but I want defence to be defence... The only 2 ways of fixing it, that I can think of, I don't like... One would be to make resistances work like armor, so instead of % on gear, you find "cold defence"... And then you can balance it by making big ele hits also be reduced less, that way you could kinda balance all the damage numbers the same... but it would overcomplicate the game... The other one is ro remove armod and replace it with "phys defense %", just like resist... but that would oversimplify it... As it is tho, it feels weird that you can ignore 75% of any elemental or chaos hit, but pys works completly different...

[@wirgiukass]

Nobody is saying that you should be able to face-tank the big boss hits with big wind-ups and clear indications when you build armor/tank. You just shouldn't be one-shot by some random white mob. It feels so bad. POE1 has the same issue, which is why me and many of my buddies never stuck with it after 300 hours and multiple characters.

[@SteveJohnson-d1d]

You should be able to if you have enough armor. Melee should be tankier then EVERYONE else because they have to be in melee to do damage. 100% up time from ranged means that melee should be able to get 100% uptime too which means tanking everything

[@0re0n]

Why not tho? If someone is actually playing zDPS with taking every single defensive node they can on the tree, invests 100 divines into gear etc., just let them tank. It will probably take them 3 times as much to get invitations for bosses or farm currency to buy it, not to mention fights themselves will probably take 10-20 min, even if they can face tank they'd still have to solve hp sustain. Idk if someone is that insane to do that, let them have their fun.

[@gregmashore4361]

Why…? Don’t call the stat armor then. Thats a ridiculous take man

[@saschaberger7201]

u got one shot from a white mob in poe1 once in your life? fix your build bruh, thats allmost impossible in poe1

[@fvzi4861]

I think one issue with armour is that many new players think it works just like resistances, but for physical damage

[@owlmostdead9492]

It is mentally regarded that it doesn’t work just like resistance, whoever designed phys like that is a failure in life

[@frederikknudsen8811]

Its overcomplicated. it should be dmg reduction and if 90% is too high then reduce that number and lower flat armour number on all items. I dont know why 20% dmg reduction is not 20% dmg reduction. they are overcomplicating the system

[@bobothebob4716]

or the fact that it's almost completely useless until you have 50k. unlike ES which is equally useful each point you have and cheap and plentiful, and makes you immortal

[@jr_Linux]

maybe instead of assuming shit works like poe 1 read the tool tips on how the mechanics work.

[@ShiroArquien]

​@frederikknudsen8811 90 percent wouldnt be too high considering armor break and vuln enemies exist

[@Honorablediscord2]

I'm a bit of a sadist. I'm trying to make my armor as high as possible to see what it actually feels like in end-game. I Believe my build is the one that could possibly have the most armor but warrior might be a better option. Gemling legionnaire tristat. Pure armor for your gloves helmet boots and pure evasion chest. Take the unique helmet that doubles attribute requirements. On the skill tree, take the node that stacks the strengths attribute requirement of each of those items as flat armor. Then take the node that convert 8% of armor to evasion. You also grab the node that doubles the evasion of your chest. And there is an armor to fire conversion for 20% next to the attribute to armor node, which is huge. Adding a shield would bring this way higher, but until swords or spears are added, not a chance I'm willing to go through that hell.

[@steadyuk3198]

"try to die less than people building armor do" lmao

[@Sniperfuchs]

Hot take: Remove "damage taken as X" and change how armor works in general. It's not that I want less depth to defensives, but I don't think it's possible to make it balanced where someone would ever NOT want to take it unless it's incredibly restrictive or just bad. And it just adds to the confusion of how armor works and how armor gets better because you have "phys taken as elemental", which if you think about it sounds super dumb. My armor, which only works on physical damage, gets more effective if I remove some of that physical damage? For seasoned players this is obvious, but even for players who are not even new but just casual this is not obvious at all and makes literally no sense. It feels very shoe-horned in and is in my opinion not really interesting outside of niche endgame stuff like Divine Flesh shenanigans.

[@Omatherius]

Armor isn't a problem by itself, just a symptom of a larger problem which is GGG's raging insatiable hatred for melee in all forms. They refuse to give melee builds the tools they need to be competitive with ranged/magic, and when they do it always comes with a caveat or loophole that lets ranged/magic abuse those same tools even better (which gets them nerfed). Look at any boss in the game and invariably most of them have the "spawn a fart cloud and stand in it so you take huge DoT if you try to melee me but get free DPS uptime if you are ranged" mechanic. It's not a problem you can fix by shuffling numbers around, and it's barely a problem that players can fix with specific gearing choices - because GGG will just see those choices as overused and dumpster them.

[@jamessunderlandseventh7410]

Yep GGG's Negligence towards Melee is insane

[@max417481]

I did aknowledge this when they broke carn exerted build...but GGG has always had white knights showing how a multi mirror build makes melee perfectly fine aka Alkeizer😅

[@shawnfox7393]

I've always disliked conversion of phys to ele, it just doesn't make sense at all to me. Just give me phys damage reduction instead.

[@sloesty]

I like it thematically. It shouldn't be something you can get on everyone. Lightning coil thematically is a very fun concept. Take more lightning damage and convert phys to lightning. Same with infernalist. I love the idea of the infernalist converting phys to fire. However, like in poe1 getting it from unveils just felt stupid.

[@Zizaran]

Ya more pieces should have phys reduction, like i say in the video

[@marioharrer9999]

@@sloesty phys to chaos, lightning and cold to fire*

[@Tsuusetsu]

My problem with it is that it was really easy to get. Even lightning coil wasn't hard to gear for end game despite the 60% lower lightning res.

[@EndermanThe]

Lets be honest GGG just really dont care about melee and never answer for their words about balance. "We dont want u too facetank" Yeah, mages can have 20000es, its fine, lets nerf frost builds.

[@fakeigniz13]

I was surprised to learn that charges don't grant buffs like in PoE1. I was wondering why people don't stack endurance charges and it's because they don't help.

[@TGRoko]

They can, there's an aura (I think) that makes them PoE 1 charges.

[@saschaberger7201]

@@TGRoko ye but at a baseline is what he meant, that makes a large difference

[@lLethalGamesl]

Overwhelm is similar to the monster crit argument in a lot of ways. Lack of clarity on what is making damage whippy is a big problem in both games. "Oh, I could tank everything but just got randomly oneshot" always feels really bad. Big difference as well is you can become crit immune but cant become overwhelm immune.

[@rgjs4537]

Problem is when white mobs oneshot people fully invented in armor in PoE 2.

[@grifftech]

I am just frustrated horribly with loot and requiring MF gear to get anything. I just started in maps a couple days ago. I have had so many maps with ZERO rare drops and maybe 1 exalt every other map if I am lucky and trying to get geared is a nightmare. And add on top of that the turd of having one portal.... gah... game is supposed to be fun and not frustrating

[@facelift5628]

Armor in po2 is like res was in d4

[@Diehardgamer2001]

It's crazy how getting bonked by a phys hit is scarier than an crazy looking elemental spell from an ancient eldritch being

[@ShiroArquien]

My issue with armor is why its even in the game. With evasion with acrobatics and ES without grim feast, there is no place for it. In poe1, at least you had conversions and could have armor mitigate with jugg ascendacy but in 2 it feels like a dump stat that exists to trick melee players. Doesnt help that poe2 missleads you with the wonderful tooltip of percent phy damage reduction.

[@nomoredpk1366]

I was like: Damn bosses one shot me everytime and i have like 60% armor / 61% evasion + passif buff. Now i understand Armor is just a joke.

[@diaboliquedia4300]

I don't like people replying with "skill issue", but.... You're not supposed to take those hits from bosses. You're supposed to avoid them or dodge roll out of danger. My witch got 0 armor and 0 evasion. I pretty much never get one shot by bosses, and when i do, it's my fault for standing where i'm not supposed to.

[@nomoredpk1366]

​@@diaboliquedia4300 I got one shotted by a random attack and it's not normal (end game). Tottaly understand that heavy attack animation OS you. Totally don't understand that a normal attack OS you (i don't play ES). Mobs can debuff armor to 0 so... It's just f***cked my friend. This call a bad design and everybody knows that armour is a useless stat.

[@MaximusAutismus]

@@diaboliquedia4300 Evasion evades, armor tanks, energy shield stacks. Slams are slams, they slam your defenses. But, If armor is unable to tank. why use it?

[@BanAaron]

@@diaboliquedia4300 It is not a fair comparison because Witch is ranged. Armour characters are usually melee. You have much more room for error when you're ranged to roll out of attacks Melee has no choice but to get close and therefore have less room for error

[@diaboliquedia4300]

@@MaximusAutismus Armour is meant to help with smaller hits as you map, not take a hit from a celestial monster wielding a building sized warhammer.

[@steamh4mmer264]

Ziz should play a non es mom build, and then think again, about thinking armour is in line with energy shield if overwhelm and grim feast get removed

[@randomhero6365]

Real

[@wejksunday6691]

he is just a meta slave xd

[@ausikc3530]

he never said that wtf you on about lol

[@bobothebob4716]

Just remove grim feast and then remove every ES node in the passive tree. Then we can have an honest conversation about how the game feels.

[@circaen]

He never once said Armour was in line with ES.

[@blixkrogg]

The issue isn't so much that people want to face-tank bosses as one death per boss attempt, when the boss attempts are so difficult to obtain, is a problem.

[@Commandelicious]

Wait, we have defences in PoE2?

[@Coldimm]

I've listened till the end and my jaw dropped when you say that ES will be fine without grim feast vs 5k life armour character? Since you're referring to the norm how do I get 5k life on a normal character, not str stacking... This seems to be such a major oversight (or bias) since you cant normally get that much life, it doesnt answer the question how does a life build survive elemental/chaos damage and very importantly it doesnt answer the issue with you being unable to spec into more life based defense on the tree. POE1 has that option, POE2 has that option for ES but not for life.

[@bobothebob4716]

Here's the issue. After about 15-20 hours, dodge rolling everything that can potentially oneshot... it just sucks, it's tiresome, boring. In dark souls it's fine because the game is finite. No ones going to spend 1000 hours playing that game, probably not even 30 hours. In this game there should be a point where you can "beat it" if you want to build that way, and be able to tank all but a handful of things, like in PoE1. 1 shots are literally the worst thing in AARPGs, and for whatever reason GGG decided to increase 1-shots 1000 fold. Instead of the PoE experience of getting 1-shot maybe once a week, it's now almost a daily occurrence for anyone not stacking energy shield). Even the smallest little shitty mob can take you by surprise and crit you for a 5k auto attack, in certain circumstances depending on the mods they roll.

[@saschaberger7201]

if u think "no one" will spend 1000 or at least 30 hours at dark souls maaaan, you are sooo wrong

[@archiewall582]

I love poe 1 but I have more hours in ds

[@zackanderson8126]

I have 4K life pool, 80% evasion and 70% armor, I still get 1 shot randomly. Not sure how much defenses I need to not die by random ass trash mobs lol

[@TheJregis]

I love how slowly most streamers are asking for more and more from PoE1. There’s a very good reason for that. PoE2 is just not hitting right and deep down, you all know that.

[@blackomega34]

Funny how all the good builds are already poe1 tier monstrosities. It isn't hitting right because endgame is a rush job and too similar to poe1.

[@archiewall582]

The games half released buddy. Poe 2 is lacking but we knew that would be the case before the game came out!

[@Gareon155]

The most important thing is that the defenses aren't anywhere close to equal in the things they mitigate. Armor only protects against small physical hits. Evasion works on all non-slam hits similar to block. However ES protects against all damage your character takes. Meaning that an ES character can raise all of their maximum hits taken by simply investing into a single stat. ES also protects against damage over time (that doesn't ignore ES). You also need to invest way more points to even get a reasonable amount of armor then just grabbing a few of the big ES nodes. Also with effectively no life on the passive tree armor characters lose an entire additional way to increase their max hit taken except by stacking strength. I checked the armor chart and even if you tripled everyone's armor they would still have less physical max hits than ES builds (based on some math and assuming around 10k ES). Armor is effectively worthless on the current patch. That is not even mentioning that "Armor shouldn't protect against slams" is weird because ES does, evasion builds can take acrobatics, and block builds can use the ascendancy notable. Armor becomes worse and worse the more difficult the content you are doing gets because it's the only defense that gets weaker the larger the hit you are taking is. I am hoping for a big armor rework/buff instead of a major ES nerf across the board. (I just felt like ranting I don't actually expect anyone to read this)

[@max417481]

Yep and sadly the way it will go will be to nerf es and phys convertion rather than rebuild a meaningfull armour mechanic...i fear GGG is losing its magic widepeeposad

[@dstroyar5426]

An ideal change would be to remove non-boss overwhelm in monster kits, change boss overwhelm to 20% max, have the monster mod "breaks armor" changed to be overwhelm aura at like 10-15%

[@caioteixeira1541]

Yeah I'm sorry ziz I really disagree with you. PoE 2 with armor + melee + item rarity + energy shield are simply making this game a nightmare. Also if having enough energy shield let's you face tank slams, having high evasion let's you rng face tank slams, armor should to some capacity also allow you to face tank the slams. Having dodge rolls as the only way to face slams is RIDICULOUS. Not to mention the crafting in this game is considerably worse than poe1 and extremely bare bones. Also there is ZERO quality of life for builds, and there is too much visual clutter in the game that needs to be lowered in some way, like a slider in options menu or something. The game is better than poe1 one in terms of speed and overall mindset it seems but my god GGG really fucked up some things that we all knew it was problematic from PoE1 like having rarity affect currency for example or having this shitty armor formula. This are things they knew it was a problem in poe1 and still put on poe2. What a shit show

[@saschaberger7201]

cause its 2 different teams working on poe1 and poe2 and sadly they seem to not share all their knowledge and things they learned with ea other

[@purplelurple8029]

Look at all these ES players squirm now, "don't nerf ES that much, don't buff armor that much".

[@Zizaran]

Wat? I want armor to be buffed a lot are you dense?

[@saschaberger7201]

huuuuh

[@Cjbreezey]

Man, watching this video all i heard is how many options we don't have. POE 2 went into the D4 route, and what made POE 1 so fun was just the endless feeling options of offense and defensive options you had. POE 2 feels like a super dumbed down version which just puts it back in the group of typical ARPGs it's is losing it uniqueness

[@poom323]

Dumbdown is fine-ish but tons of things in PoE2 now are counter intuitive.

[@Wizi3lizz]

0:38 Incorrect, armor is not in a good spot. You only play hardcore in PoE1 so when you get armor you get WAY too much armor for a softcore player. Softcore players don't care if they die, they care if they get one-shot and they care if their casual/meme builds are compromised. 2000 armor is not good, that shield is used much less than in hardcore and people would much rather run Determination and forget about armor than invest in anything more than that (hence why Determination aura gets nerfed/changed constantly) Also that shield is a horrible example. It converts some phys to fire and it has an average 45% chance to block. It's very hard to determine if 2000 armor is actually helping or not with a shield like that or if it's the other MUCH better stats. EDIT: Also it drops from Exarch, if you're getting that far in the game to get such a shield then your build is doing just fine imo.

[@Zizaran]

Did you just say i dont understand survival BECAUSE i play HC? 😂

[@saschaberger7201]

nothing u said invalidates his point of ANY SHIELD With 2k armor helps a decent amount in poe1, it was never bout the item itself just a rndm example. also when did u play poe1 the last time? armor indeed is in a pretty good spot rn, at least its in one of the best spots its ever been, defenses in general are in a vry good state rn compared to a few years ago

[@saschaberger7201]

and having 3-4k base armor does in fact ALOT for you with having a granite flask and inc armor prefix on it as well... especially on those SC builds u so specifically talked bout

[@Wizi3lizz]

@@Zizaran I'm saying that you only understand survival in HC. Armor is good in HC because you HAVE to build defenses or you lose. Armor is bad in SC because softcore players don't WANT to invest in defenses, so they want 30,000 armor with low investment (and that's not how it works). Armor doesn't create the Profane Ground, it doesn't wardloop the SRS bees and doesn't make Reflect a viable leech strat. From what I've experienced SC players don't mind dying if they have fun doing it and getting one-shot instantly stops the fun. Armor is good in HC because you're using it as designed, because everyone shares the same goal of not dying. (Sorry if this is too long lol)

[@Wizi3lizz]

@@saschaberger7201 I don't think finding any chance to dmg-shift phys dmg into anything else is a "pretty good spot" for armor imo.

[@SimplyVanis]

Armor is simply physical mitigation. Its no different than ele resists. There is no difference if you tank giga slams with damage conversions or simply flat armor, so I completely unable to understand Ziz's take on armor tanking boss slams... If you cannot take boss slam with tons of armor, but you can eat slams for days with phys damage conversions to elemental damage, whats the difference? If one boss slam is fire oriented another boss is physical oriented, why is fire cap stackers be able to eat them with Spell suppressions, but physical slams untankable?

[@radicalindividual7774]

Because GGG is copying the largest failures of PoE1 from 2012-2014, and copying Diablo 4 Beta's Failures to create a game. It's pretty easy to see the writing on the walls, actually. Like, REALLY, REALLY easy to see why.

[@max417481]

Vision getting... rusty 😅

[@radicalindividual7774]

@@max417481 Yeah. That's why I WAS so excited about PoE2. Every time PoE1 basically reversed it's hypocritical ideology in design, I came back to the game. When it felt more in line with Johnathan's original stances were. Then, Johnathan leading it?But seeing how PoE 2 is just treading back on every single poor decision they already made, and fixed... Meh.

[@max417481]

@@radicalindividual7774 i am still on hopium this is ea and they left the sweet for the last

[@MannersPlease]

I can't wait for a 3.26 league made by five interns coming out late March 2025

[@max417481]

Pog

[@Demetris-cm8er]

I hope fortify and other melee mechanics will be added with duelist/marauder

[@WindHaze10]

and sword/axe skills. Mace skills are quite miserable with those +1,5 second attack animations.

[@greyb5511]

@@WindHaze10 Honestly super shocked swords and axes weren't out with the release of this Early Access.. Like cmon those two weapons are bread and butter of ANY warrior/melee character archetypes. How hard is it to add those into ur freaking game!?!

[@MisfitMonkey]

@@WindHaze10 Seriously, they feel really weighty though and have some killer effects, so maybe with big improvements to armour/life mace would feel 10x better.

[@saschaberger7201]

im still praying fortify is just one of the gems thats missing and says coming soon rn

[@myckat7148]

"Armour was never meant to be for bossing and big hits" - thats actually a problem and thats need to be changed

[@breakthecode4634]

Yup

[@ausikc3530]

yea that's not happening

[@briankay3146]

No one expects armor to tank the equivalent of a maven memory game explosion but it should at least be as effective as energy shield. Tried making a new warrior from being a monk and my warrior got hard stuck at draven and it was hilarious how bad melee is. Even the auto attack is too slow and will get you punished everytime. found myself using rolling slam and pressing back to cancel the second slam to at least get a 1 meaning hit that comes out fast. In short it feels more "knights of the fallen" than dark souls.

[@lavq7000]

Does it tho? The example in the video is very clear. You should not be able to tank a telegraphed Big hit from a boss. Unless you invest a LOT into that specific defense . I think that makes sense for the game. The issue with armour is not about bossing (even now it does allow life characters to tank pinacle bosses attacks) . The problem is that it is not as effective in mapping and that Energy shield is completly broken in comparison right now.

[@akn3207]

Can you give an argument? I can say pigs should fly but who gives a fuck.

[@dieuwtjin]

I agree with some of the points made here, but the argument of '8 k armor with 5 k health is probably the same as a 9 k energy shield' makes absolutely no sense as 5 k health is impossible to obtain, while 9 k es is trivially easy. The issue is that maximum life does not have any talent or item support the way en energy shield does. Until max life is gained with the same relative easy, energy shield will always be better. Even if es gets like a 50% nerf

[@saschaberger7201]

5k isnt impossible at all, have u tried to find some videos on ytb 1st or did u just assume that and said so?

[@sheabishop6200]

5k is definitely attainable

[@TezzeretDynamite]

It wouldn't be as big of a deal if melee had any real choice about what type of defense to get. Why is energy shield a caster thing and armor a melee thing? Defense options should be universal regardless of playstyle.

[@spencers1485]

You can easily go es/armor as Melee. Warrior and monk are both right next to the int trees atm. You can also convert your life to es in a few dif ways

[@TheQuinn50]

nothing is stopping you from using ghostwrithe on a warrior.

[@austinwagner1090]

@@TheQuinn50 the mechanic of ES is stopping you... you are in their face 24/7 and will never have a chance for ES to recharge. Warriors need life leech and armor to mitigate the constant incoming damage that comes with standing melee range.

[@saschaberger7201]

@@austinwagner1090 not rly, if u played poe1 u would know there are allways things to make ES work for melee too, they would just need to add some of those or smth similiar that would allow you to do so, and even yet while maybe no the best u have uniques like the shield that makes ES recharge on kill or % chance on kill smth like that

[@saschaberger7201]

@@austinwagner1090 also thats not what OPs comment and his reply was bout

[@kanick1983]

I think one shot mechanics left on the ground that 90 percent of the time you cant see is dumb

[@Neriehem]

What I'm thinking is that Armour should get Guard skills that grant Guard (which is basically Ward from PoE1) based off player's Armour amount, kind of how Molten Shell does in PoE1. That would fix the one-shot while granting skilled armour-based players chance to respond and protect themselves against huge damage attacks. That, with formula buff should bring Armour to good level, especially if GGG decides to not increase base Life levels.

[@capitatv]

armour felt pretty bad on my gas grenade merc not gonna lie

[@seanackley7210]

My favorite thing about Poe 1 is layering defenses and we just don’t have that in Poe 2..yet, hopefully. I really hope they add fortify and more pdr in the game.

[@thehandle711]

0:55 is it the armor or the 10-20% phys damage taken as fire damage that you are feeling? Converting phys to an elemental damage is pretty huge for DR.

[@9sIota]

Maybe watch an extra 30 seconds before commenting lol.

[@thehandle711]

@@9sIota I did and he glossed over that fact so fast and didn't even mention how strong that conversion actually is. It's so strong that that unique could have no armor and you wouldn't even be able to tell.

[@saschaberger7201]

@@thehandle711 he just used it as an example, he could have shown any other shield with 2k armor but he wanted to talk bout dmg shifting anyway so it was a good example item. but i get that some people maybe are a lil bit confused on that part or didnt get it exactly, especially people that didnt nolife poe1

[@Saiperia]

not only feels armor like a waste of points invested, also the movement penality of wearing items should be removed. we allready have like no mobilty skills and to find boots with ms is like a one in a 1000... also we lose about 15% ms by just equipping a body armor and a shield... it feels bad and isnt even telegraphed anywere in the game.

[@saschaberger7201]

i remember when i found out this was a thing in poe1, at 1st i thought i only felt like i was faster at the start without any gear, but when i saw the node on the passive tree that says no penalty from armour i was like uhhhh so it actually is a thing.. its rly dumb thatthey dnt tell u dnt anywhere

[@TomXander]

I get one shot by map shit like random explosions that has more aoe than is shown or aoe that I can't see or are choreographed than bosses. What Kripp mentions is that the armour doesn't do anything at all.

[@gilescorey6569]

One other problem is the fact that the builds using armor are usually also using HP, which is INSANELY bad right now. It gets to the point where people are building melee characters with CI, just because it is so much easier to stack yourself 8k Energy Shield using some of the passives and enabling an aura which will overflow your ES to insane values like 12k+

[@vvav]

Imagine if the overwhelm armor mod on rare enemies would remove an amount of armor instead of a percentage of armor. Building more armor would actually help, just like building more DPS helps against rares with extra life and extra resists.

[@MrMetFanSC]

Honestly D4 has the right idea here you should have a flat amount of armor that you kind of want to expect your physical resistance to be if you want to do armor otherwise if it is just another defensive layer it should be % phys mitigation instead of armor so it works the same regardless of the damage done

[@max417481]

Flat amount=flat builds

[@ddot1007]

I agree that there should be no build where it lets you just tank a big slam, but I think the biggest frustration comes from the fact that its not the big boss slam that many people die from, but its random mob, sometimes even white mobs that somehow take you from 100 to 0 in such a short time that you cant even react from it. The thing is, some people may say armour was always meant to block against chip damage, but in end game mapping, many of the "chip" damage does so much damage that I can't really see armour being a super viable option.

[@brofst]

Another factor is that armour only works on phys. In PoE1 we addressed this by taking some (decent) max res nodes on the tree; those options don't exist in PoE2. Meanwhile, Evasion builds had to spec very heavily into spell suppression on all their gear as well as tree. In PoE2 they simply take acrobatics and/or Sorcery Ward and call it a day.

[@Jimbr16]

Crit immunity is also something we don't have. Also we have a lot of negation on Ailments and corrupted blood and stuff so all damage you take is small and predictable. POE1 is about making all damage you take streamlined and small, you can't do that very well on POE2 yet

[@AmerAmer-ti7bp]

Can't wait for the "THE STREAMER's PROBLEM" video.

[@Macronaso]

TBH this is the kind of stuff I expected to be super out of balance.

[@thatepicwizardguy]

Heres the thing. This is almost a D4 level fuckup. This is almost as bad as resists basically not working in D4 except at least in D4 it affected everyone so the bad feeling felt universal rather than feeling terrible for a specific slice of the pie. They need to fix A LOT about poe2 right now. At least they have the early access excuse cuz holy shit have they dropped the ball on a lot of things. Its just a pretty mess right now

[@jhschuster]

Do you think it's worth it to invest in evasion, even on hardcore? I saw you using it on the monk build

[@lokai765]

GGG: "we want poe 2 to be a bit more grounded and much slower pace than poe 1" Me: "sick i just started playing HC heavily in poe 1 so that sounds like it will be a fun new game to learn HC in" GGG: *removes like over half of the defensive options that poe 1 had and replaces them with either more damage or nothing at all* Me: :C

[@revenantmuffin4730]

Even the PoE 1 Armour stacker, with all the mirrors worth of gear, utilizes multiple layers of defense to maximize the usefulness of Armour, though certain methods have been removed or nerfed over time, such as full conversion of physical damage to elemental damage. It speaks volumes that such well discussed and basically perfected builds exist and the layers they optimize for scaling defenses were overlooked or removed. Hopefully they will be added in the future and weren't ready yet, but it is a feelsbadman for now.

[@MsKyler240]

I noticed this week, that 90% of the drops i can't sell, its always armour based, armour/magic shield is the most unpopular by far.

[@soulstealer5625]

Well the classes associated with armour energy shield arent even in the game yet for a start. Templar and primalist.

[@max417481]

You should buy them as GGG will make them stronger again 100%

[@purplatypus7405]

Have you ever done a video where you go over builds of new players and kind of coach what is good what could be better and explain why? I think it would be great content. As a small CC myself who is dabbling in PoE2 as one of my first ARPGs ive had a blast but struggling getting strong enough for the end game pinnicle bosses.

[@saschaberger7201]

lol thats funny, he literally does a video format exactly like this, only for poe1 so far and not consistant but usually like once a league or twice, its called "build roasts" if u wana look them up ;) he is jokingly roasting people while also trying to help them

[@MrMysteriousDm]

I just think armor should give a percentage towards your elemental resistances based off your armor. It'd make it alot better and especially for melee characters who struggle against most range casters while fighting others in melee

[@saschaberger7201]

u mean like in addition to the 75% res u have or count as flat ele res so u dnt have to get as much on your suffixes on gear to 75%?

[@nickfish-y6i]

i used to have 80% armor, all 80+ resistances, 4k hp, after getting one shot by almost everything I just switched to +item rarity one shot blinking gemling and never been happier than this

[@ProxCyde]

Sure. Until they nerf that as well. At least you have the option for now. Us warriors have zero viable options that feels good. Some are going totems and whatnot. That's just the worst ability on a warrior. No idea what they were thinking with that.

[@adsadsasdasdasdasdda]

80% armor means nothing, you need to talk about the number. Did you have above 20k armor? I still agree that armor is bad, but the % value is a bait for new players as it was with poe 1.

[@I_Am_Empyrean]

@@ProxCyde Totems requiring a weapon to use but then not using your weapon damage is just a joke and a half.

[@nickfish-y6i]

@@adsadsasdasdasdasdda honestly i dont remember but prolly i didnt have that. well, in poe 1 having 60k armor felt good along with cap resists and never depleting ES :D :D

[@nickfish-y6i]

btw as good as having like zero armor and 40k ES, so ES still rocks

[@zombe22]

Do you have any thoughts on evasion? I noticed that in PoE2 it protects you from projectiles and strikes instead of all attack hits. This makes you evade some spells, sure, but it also leaves you vulnerable to big AoE spells (which is fine I guess, but could be considered), and most importantly - slam attacks. If armour is a tool against multiple small hits, evasions is supposed to be the tool against big ones. But most of bigger hits are slams. Does not make that much sence to me tbh.

[@sheabishop6200]

Armour is the best defensive layer against white mobs. You need block or evasion (evasion has its issues as well) against magic and rares. If you don’t have avoidance of some kind, your character will die a lot

[@VoidWhisper_VT]

What is the thought about evasion rating ? ES is up there and armour down there, is ER in a good place ? I have to admit I really like my Merc build, I've tried a mix of dmg and tanking, but I really struggle to not get one shot through maps by having mostly armour and a bit of evasion. I'm not super good at the game so my build probably have a lot of issues, but it's been frustrating to see how little options I have for defence being all the into dex/str

[@supremespanker]

Evasion is strong imo, especially because some evasion nodes are op. But energy shield trumps everything

[@Meitti]

I remember the first time I was in Act 3 Vaal city area and a group of blue Vaal warriors with ArmourBreaking were far deadlier and more dangerous to my Warrior character than Viper Napuatzi.

[@ErnestCarlson-q6s]

There are other forms of defense layers we can attach still in the game. Block, Life recouping from hits, life regen. I agree with only relying on armor. It's not going to cut it.

[@CowPimp]

I think they could remove random mods that grant overwhelm, but keep some amount of overwhelm on the telegraphed slams where the boss turns red. Then, armour characters get a warning when their defenses are about to be invalidated just like block/evade characters.

[@beratsalija8888]

I largely agree with you, even though armour system is a bit convoluted in poe1 i find it fine as it is and having additional sources of mitigation or mechanics like conversion makes armour more effective and worth building. The problem i have is that even if we add these things in poe2 it will not alleviate the problem, heck may even make it worse because it may be better to still stack es and add more mitigation on top. And all of that is simply due to how the armour formula works in poe2. Not sure if you watched kripp's 2nd video on this topic, and if the information presented there is correct just removing overwhelm or even armour break will not solve the issue, the change to the formula in poe2 made armour pretty much useless and not just against bosses but even against smaller hits as well. You need absurd numbers to actually make it feel good, numbers which we literally cannot get atm as we don't have enough sources to scale our armour.

[@Sinsfromhellv1]

This is exactly what I think the majority of players have-the mindset of PoE1. People are facetanking everything and then complaining about getting one-shotted. They literally added new defensive mechanics to the game, such as Dodge Roll and Raise Shield.

[@cman2458]

I think its just confusing overall, new players to the game (me included) thought armor for a Warrior was their version of defense and mages/rogues got energy shield. But it sounds like armor is for damage reduction from small hits like a bonus and energy shield is the main regen "armor" which is very strange because most games its like that. Also most of the warrior node are all attack or all defense early on so it very deceptive.