Why is Swing so White? | Uncovering the Black roots of the Lindy Hop

[@djcrystalclear8169]

Do you know who choreographed that ad? The fabulous Fatimah Robinson!

[@TanitaDee]

ooh, didn’t know, love that! No wonder it was so smooth 🤩

[@dnifty1]

Couple of notes: Harlem had as much racism as the South and segregation also existed, as the term Harlem originated with the Dutch city of Haarlem as a result of the area being first settled by the Dutch (see Peter Stuyvesant and the Vanderbuilts). And this neighborhood was one of the first to receive large numbers of black people, while most of the city was white and racist. This is why most of the theaters, shops and ballrooms were not owned by black people. The Cotton Club was originally a club owned by Jack Johnson, but then bought by a white gangster and renamed, symbolizing plantation life. The Harlem Renaissance was funded by wealthy whites to promote a more "safe" form of expression against segregation and racism, such as Julius Rosenwald and Charlotte Osgood Mason. The depiction of black people happy and smiling was a mandatory part of the Hollywood code and they were not allowed to sing or talk about the segregation and racial oppression they experienced.

[@tochiRTA]

NO WONDER! That's an even deeper convo! What was she thinking while doing the choreo? man this Matrix we live in....😮‍💨

[@prolesok]

Herrang dance camp (in Sweden) always invited Frankie Manning, Norma Miiler, Sugar Sullivan and others original dancer to the camp. A lot of Europeans know and respect the history of this dance.

[@ubroc]

I've never been to a Lindy Hop exchange where black dancers and black history wasn't celebrated and awknoledged. The 90's revival was centered on Frankie.

[@GeniusLawliet]

Al Minns was the first origin to come to Herräng in 1984. Very unfortunate that he then passed away four months later, due to sickness.

[@kenny6643]

I can say as a black lindy hopper today, the issue of race isn’t really brought up enough. We have advocates for sure reminding new (and old) dancers of lindy’s origins and we have people like Denise Minns-Harris, daughter of og lindy hopper Al Minns who goes to different conventions and events to speak about her dad’s legacy and black people’s place in the dance today. But it’s an elephant in the room - you see a lot of non-black dancers and it can make me feel tokenized sometimes. I think the issue we’re having now is getting young black dancers interested in lindy. Not sure why but it could be a combination of the music (jazz isn’t that popular with youth) as well as a perceived inability to dance to it, again the limited number of black faces present in popular scenes and such a high barrier to entry. Lindy has become a “proper” dance and now has lessons you have to pay hundreds of dollars to take. Not to mention buying shoes that aren’f necessary for the dance but makes it easier for some moves. Also depending on your area, there might be swing deserts so even if you do take lessons, socials are only once a week so you can’t even practice every day in the environment like Frankie and them did back then. Overall there are a lot of issues in the lindy community I think education and investment in the youth can resolve and make the dance more welcoming/accessible to people regardless of skin colour or economic background.

[@moo639]

@@kenny6643 I take swing dance lessons in Harlem every Tuesday night (see Harlem Swing Dance Society). The last dance is always to a recent hit. It shows that as long as the song has a beat, it can still work for swing dancing.

[@moniquerh1]

I had the honor of dancing in the movie Malcolm X with the legends Frankie Manning Norma Miller. Highlight of my dancing career ❤

[@TanitaDee]

No way? How incredible! Definitely re-watching it now 🤩

[@killerdillr]

Could you tell more about your participating in that movie. I have watch that dance sequence dozens of time. Chazz Young (Frankies son) told me, and I think Ryan Francios did too, that it took almost 4 months to half a year to do it. There must be something in the can of clips, outtakes, we have never seen. How was the atmosphere over all. Were you one of the jazz dancers doing those awesome steps in line next to the stairs?

[@moniquerh1]

My experience was crazy! I didn't make the first cut of auditions, but months later, I got a call from production asking if I could be in New York the next day. ( I am from Philly, and I had no money and no place to stay) Of course I said YES!!! A friend happened to be in the cast, and I stayed with him. They were working on the choreography for months, but I had one week to learn everything. I found out later they fired a girl for coming late to rehearsal! So, here I was on set to learn her parts. I wore a burgundy dress and danced wth a tall gentleman in a hat. We did the bit at the end on the staircase, where he jumped over my head. I have a really funny Spike Lee story, but this is already too long. 😊

[@moniquerh1]

Shooting the scene took one week 😊

[@moniquerh1]

@@TanitaDee I still can't believe I did that 😊

[@TheBooklover1848]

Your pronunciation of "Whitey" is correct. Herbert "Whitey" White was the impresario who managed the troupe. Frankie Manning was a member of Whitey's Lindy Hoppers alongside Al Minns and Norma Miller. I would *love* to hear a deep dive into West Coast Swing as another branch in the same story of commodifying/re-packaging lindy hop into a dance for white people to learn at ballroom studios. My understanding is that WCS first started being its own thing in the 1950s and dance instructors were explicitly being told how to teach it in a way that stripped the dance of its original Black aesthetics.

[@ubroc]

They tried to strip swing dancing of it's sexuality. It didn't work, but they did create a beautiful universe of different swing dances.

[@rpitner]

It was also because of the white streak in his hair.

[@Gleem1313]

I was coming up as a dancer in the 80s and 90s and learned Lindy Hop from Frankie Manning, Norma Washington, Ryan Francois, the Nicholas Brothers in Pasadena, CA where Erin Steven’s brought Frankie out of his retirement to teach all of us in California. I can assure you that his “smooth Savoy style” Lindy Hop was imbued with all the history of the originators of the dance. It was created out of the segregation that you had mentioned. Frankie said that the white dancers were dancing the waltz, cake walk etc. & it was a point of making fun of how stiff those dances were and the music that went with it. He spoke about how Lindy (named after Lindberg’s Hop across the ocean) was different socially than it was in performance or in “Cat’s Corner” where only the best, invited dancers got to dance. No aerials on the social floor with someone you might not know etc. There was always a ton of respect for this wonderful dance form and those who pioneered the dance. To this day in the swing community, Black created Lindy Hop is held as one of the most joyful and beautiful dances created by Whitey’s Lindy Hoppers (Yes, long “I” like the color) & those who learn it are very much aware of its roots. Hollywood got a hold of the dance and changed it to the “Hollywooder” swing dance of the white swing movies of the day. Or white dancers preferred to dance with East Coast swing because it’s simply easier to do. Lindy Hopping, as you say, needs some teaching and practice to do it well. One wouldn’t start learning swing dance with Lindy. And yes, in the early 90s, Erin Stevens (and Steven Mitchell who’s fallen from grace) brought the Red Hot Lindy Hoppers from Sweden to teach us all as well.(They also teach the dance’s history and where it came from and are very respectful of its roots.) We traveled to Herrang, Sweden for a dance camp for several weeks where Frankie Manning and others both attended and taught the dance to all of us. His partner at the time was Norma too. Frankie, Norma, the Nicholas Brothers, Rob Van Haaren and others were well beloved leaders for bringing back the smooth style Lindy Hop. Thousands upon thousands mourned his loss when he died several years ago. Look up Erin Stevens and Frankie Manning Lindy videos to see him teach a bit. Such a warm soul.

[@annabelle746]

Wasn't the cake walk also originated by Black dancers (as a way of making fun of white people's dances)? I recently learned that is where the expression "that takes the cake" comes from. It was performed as an informal competition where the winner would win a cake lmao. As a nerdy side note ,I think it would technically be more accurate to call the 'i' in white a diphthong (a+i) than a long vowel.

[@Gleem1313]

@@annabelle746 The cake walk is sometimes attributed to indigenous tribes and folks taking their dances and formalizing them. The origins of the cake walk are interesting. But it wouldn’t surprise me if they were adapted by Black dancers as well. I know that dancers would dance and play a game with it where they would win a cake when they were randomly stopped. White dancers typically took dances they saw that were popularized and formalized them in some way. What stands out to me is that white dancers often just took a dance and modified it. When we were learning from Frankie, he spoke about how dancers often “stole steps” from the Cool Cats, but if you did, you would always tell people where you got it. My styling looked a lot like Erin Stevens and Sylvia from Balboa, CA. Many ppl could pick out exactly who one had studied with, which was kind of cool. The Hollywooders were much more upright, especially the women, and wore tighter fitting clothing than the smooth style Savoy Lindy Hoppers. If you want to see some great contemporary Lindy, check out some of Ryan Francois videos.He choreographed “Swing Kids.” Kind of an awful movie and the lead actors did their best, but weren’t good dancers. If you look at the background dancers-those are the good ones! Nils and Bianca are a great couple to watch too. I believe they are from Sweden. Red Hot Lindy Hoppers. There was a dance camp in Herrang we attended there.

[@paillette42]

Great vid! I had the great honor of participating in workshops taught by Frankie Manning in the '90s, and it was an incredible experience. I really like the depth and historical context you give here.

[@ambercherise2391]

I have been swing dancing for 17 years. I’ve given lectures on this topic and just had a conversation about it with a fellow POC about a month ago. If you’ve not already done so, make your way to the Harlem Swing Society. It may assist your perspective too.

[@genrepunk]

Lindy hasn't been my main dance for years and I won't claim to have the deepest grasp of its history but you did a pretty good job with it as far as I understand it! The continuation of Lindy Hop in Black communities is such an important point to understanding the dance and what's happened with it. When people talk about the "Swing Revival" they often don't realize that there's been more than one, and that the dance never died in the first place. I did want to say about "just dancing": that's not a pejorative, it's just the way rooted dancing is often talked about. Looking at something from the outside, especially something from the past, we might see it as a super formally codified thing, but at the time that it's happening before it gets marketed to somebody often it really is just called dancing. Not because it's bad or less than but because it is living culture. The ultra-codified everything has a specific name and is done only in this precise way approach to dancing is more the ballroom studio chain method of dance knowledge. Like reducing dancing to footwork so it's easy to create and sell formalized lessons. Folks looking for more on what's going on with Lindy Hop nowadays might want to check out the Integrated Rhythm podcast by Chisomo Selemani and Bobby White.

[@imanirousselle]

The current dancers you featured in the first clip are Tyedric Hill and Kanini Kiiru! You actually featured Tyedric again towards the end dancing with Ramona Staffeld at the International Lindy Hop Championships 😊 All are beautiful dancers and wonderful teachers who travel the world sharing the history and joy of swing!

[@graceymargaretwilson1645]

I started going to Lindy classes this year in Stockholm and I had no idea how big it was here before I started. During all the classes I've had the teachers make sure to talk about the roots of the movement and its icons as well as media to check out. It's so important to talk about so I'm really happy they do, both for the young and old.

[@ricardod6610]

A parallel and similar development that irks me is how Ballroom latin dance has repackaged Latin dances like Salsa, Tango, Samba and Rhumba into something that doesn't resemble the popular dance as it is done by actual Latinos but also misses the entire feeling of Latin dances. Worst of all is that they use the proper names of these dances, without adjectives or modifiers, to refer to their own versions of these dances. So much so that googling "Rumba" will result in seeing a lot of tuxedos in ballrooms rather than dancers on the street surrounded by drums.

[@ninamartin1084]

I couldn't agree more and it infuriates me! I honestly do not know why Argentina and Brazil and Cuba do not make formal diplomatic complaints about this horrible and demeaning cultural appropriation, honestly it made it an uphill struggle as a salsa dance teacher and eventually I stopped as People Were Just Not Getting It.

[@genrepunk]

@@ricardod6610 well said. It's an act of reinscription: "this dance isn't what you say it is, it's what we say it is." Which is ironic because without the roots there wouldn't be anything to whitewash

[@rebeccamorgan4983]

Thank you so much for making this video! I just started teaching to build a Lindy scene in central Illinois and I've been thinking a lot lately about how society in general sees Swing as white and white people will never be fully equipped to fix that problem alone (despite historically causing it). Regardless of the endless disagreements, and people nitpicking at the details, we NEED to keep talking about it. It's important to give credit where credit is due. Its important to drive awareness to the depth of repair that is needed. Its important to be sensitive to the injustice of needing black people to help fix the damage that white people caused against black people. Yes, we did our best, AND there is still more work to do. Thank you!

[@CthIngo]

Thank you very much for this concise, accessible video and it's, despite the (for many Lindy dancers and especially new ones) difficult topic, kind of "positive vibe" you manage to transport! We might recommend or feature this in our classes, even. Kudos!

[@wtfKwaku]

I miss your videos! So much it's something calming, entertaining, funny and informative about your content and voice. I love that you are back!

[@TanitaDee]

Thank you! Glad to be back 😌

[@NamelessBody]

I really appreciate this perspective. As a European who did some Lindy Hop for a while as a novelty. I was aware of the dance's background (luckily we didn't only dance to 90s Swing Revival music, but a lot of the originals), but still hadn't given it enough thought.

[@jazzyjoints7081]

Always. We start a style and it takes a minute for people to catch up because it takes a while for other folks to learn it. From the outside looking in, it is difficult.❤

[@TjjazzMadrid]

You did your homework, and said what needed to be said, better than so many in the Lindy Hop scene! The fact that you talked about it continuing in the Black community👏🏾 There are some tidbits that could be argued and I do feel like you rushed through the ending more than the more historical parts, but it's pretty awesome so I'm just gonna clarify a slight misconception: Today the Lindy scene is sooooo not a melting pot. It's pretty much the same energy as you mentioned in the 40's just with a lot of Faux 'woke'-ism, maybe knowing the history but not really understanding that respecting it is not just studying and preaching but *Listening* and putting all that practice. Since 2020, Black bodies have been bit by bit more visible in Lindy Hop and related Jazz dances...and a chunk of that is thanks to BLHF (Black Lindy Hoppers Fund). The Frankie Manning Foundation has also opened some great doors throughout the years! (So if you feel like tryin' it out, that'd be a good place to start😉) Anyway, thanks for this tid bit of Fresh air. Well done Beautiful Black Woman💪🏾🙌🏾🙌🏾🙌🏾🥳🥳

[@SmokeyQuartzZen]

Seconding all of this. Heavy co-sign on the faux woke-ism part. So tired to this nonsense, but seeing this video and also folks like you in the comments is heartening!

[@scottg.g.haller3291]

Swing dancing also had a following in Singapore -- crafting a catchy nickname of "Swing-a-pore".

[@killerdillr]

Thank you so much for doing this short, and very informative description. I am a Dane, and I have been Lindy Hoppin for the past 30 years, since 1995 or before. Can hardly remember it anymore. I began due to The Danish documentary, which you should look up, THE CALL OF THE JITTERBUG (1988). This doc lets the black community talk for themselves, not white people are telling "the black man felt like this etc!. You have already been given the reason for Whitey´s name. I have met many of the second generations lindy hoppers and lived with Norma a week in Italy, as well as, we had her here in Copenhagen, Denmark, as a special guest 1 year before she past. In Denmark we primarily called the dance for Jitterbug, however, I have traced down an event going on in the middle of Copenhagen, saying "Lindy Hop Championnship in 1933 !! For sure only some white dancers, as we did not have any but very few black people here. From a newpaper clip I read and article from 1942 saying": We must not forget, that this Jitterbug dance is a n....(word - we used a similar word here in Denmark but it was mostly used as a word descriping a black person, not necessarily meaning as anything derogatory) dance called Lindy Hop. The front of a weekly magazine in 1949, they recreated the famous picture of Al Minns and Willie Mae Ricker jumpin , saying LINDY HOP in Copenhagen. I met the man on the front later, who told me the story. That picture of Al and Willie should have been on the front of LIFE magazine, but due to all the white washing, it ended up being two young white Americans. SIGH. Hellzapoppin and A Day At The Races + After Seben (Seven) is filled up with racism in the dance sequences. Not their dancing but everything around them, the way they are portraited as servants, chefs, maids etc... Lindy Hop became Steppin´ an Hand Dancing in the 60s as the music changed to SOUL music, later Disco. Then came along Hip Hop, which in my point of view is what happened to Lindy Hop, it became Hip Hop. The same vibe, social invironment, poverty etc. And as we can see, many moves within Hip Hop can be traced way back to West Africa, and vernercular jazz and Lindy Hop. Bebop was created due to the white man has taken everything from the black community, so the black musicians began playing notes white man were unable to dublicate. Well, that is one of the reason, also normal progression evolution. This was a very long writing, let me end up with a HUGE THUMB UP for your storytelling. I think you did marvelously good, and am looking forward to hearing more from you. By the way, one last thing. Is the "mickey mouse voices due to copyrights?" Here is a link to THE CALL OF THE JITTERBUG - kzbin.info/www/bejne/ioKnfZJ8h7uHps0

[@AnastasiaTetrismedeTota]

Loved the video, thanks for talking about this once more!

[@Im_Absolute]

Thank you for educating me more on our black history and culture. Thanks for tha video

[@gaelledancechannel1146]

I loved the video ! I'm a jazz dance teacher and I will show this video to my students :)

[@KierstenBrown101]

Well done all around in this video. 🎉🎉

[@haileybalmer9722]

Tanita, where are your viewers? Algorithm, come snatch this creator up! Put more eyes on these videos, this is the content we’re craving!

[@loudaprile471]

btw, I don't know if anyone dropped this story, but the reason he was name "Whitey" was because he has a really bad ass white streak in his hair.

[@TanitaDee]

omg thank you for this! I kept wondering why 😭

[@GeniusLawliet]

Thank you so much for this. Your video is part of an important movement happening within the worldwide Lindy Hop community, one that rightly centers Lindy Hop within its African-American roots. I’m certain Lindy Hop dancers all over the world will appreciate this context. I’ve been listening to jazz since I was 14, by choice =D. I say “by choice” because at that time, I had already been living for three years in an asylum camp in Germany, where pop music, hip-hop, and rap were the dominant genres. When I learned about jazz history in school, I was hooked. My musical tastes shifted from rap and hip-hop to jazz, spanning from New Orleans jazz to hard bop (though I find free jazz a bit challenging). I’m originally from Egypt, so it’s quite a different cultural context for me, but jazz resonated with me deeply. When I discovered Lindy Hop at 21, I was hooked all over again-finding a dance that matched the music I loved so much. The reason I’m so grateful for your video is personal. Ever since I encountered jazz, I’ve felt this deep sadness about the long history of unfair treatment and exploitation of Black people. The immense hardships African people endured-being violently uprooted from their homes, transported to another continent under brutal conditions, and continually robbed of recognition for their talents and contributions-have always weighed heavily on my heart. One more example that fits within your video’s swing-related context is the famous big band battle between Chick Webb and Benny Goodman. Despite Chick Webb’s clear victory, Benny Goodman was still crowned the "King of Swing." This is just one of many injustices reflecting the broader suppression of Black artists throughout history. Thank you again for shedding light on the incredible contributions of the African-American community to jazz and Lindy Hop, and for reminding us of the historical context we should never forget. Current advocates working on putting Lindy Hop in the african-american roots to mention for all the viewer are: - Miss Denise Harris-Minns (Daughter of one the original dancers: Albert Minns) - Prof. Josette Wiggan (highly decorated and worldwide famous tap dancer) - Together with Dr. Marie N'Diaye they worked out a series of defining Lindy Hop in its roots (very current studies) - Breai Mason-Campbell - LaTasha Barnes - Remy Kouakou Kouame - Also worth mentioning is www.collectivevoicesforchange.org/ - swungover.wordpress.com/

[@pickinstone]

Although Bebop was a reaction to financial pressure and commercial superficiality, I think that many jazz historians deemed the music as "anti-dance music" a little too quickly. Dizzy Gillespie's music was steeped within the rhythmic tradition of dance--you could see him dance and stomp his feet as he conducted big bands and belted out solos in small group settings. Charlie Parker was incredibly rhythmic as well, his precision about the beat was unmatched. The issue is that when many people study bebop, in colleges, in books, and online--that rhythmic dance of the music is a mere footnote or completely ignored. The jazz education paradigm is slowly changing, but for too long the music was taught primarily through scales and music theory... a euro-centric approach to a Black artform. Harmony and scales are the raw materials, but RHYTHM is the delivery to the dance floor--the organizing agent that taps into the pathos of the listening audience. This could all be another controversial video, but its food for thought now ;) Loved you video on the Lindy Hop, btw!

[@savannabaltero4375]

I could get a degree from KZbin comments, please put me on your mailing list 😭😂

[@ubroc]

I think the bebop and cool jazz musicians wanted the same relationship between artist and audience as classical musicians. and not as dance bands. So they didn't play danceable music or have dance floors in the clubs where they playd because they wanted.

[@pickinstone]

@@ubroc Still gotta make those feet tap and that head sway--the dance never disappeared. Academia tried to sever the dance connection--the rhythm. When we lose the rhythm, we lose the music.

[@pickinstone]

@@savannabaltero4375 I am an English teacher, guilty as charged. There's libraries worth of my longwinded comments peppered around KZbin. Apologies in advanced ;)

[@ubroc]

@@pickinstone Hard Bop is danceable but it's the rare jazz club that has a dance floor. Lindy Hop and swing dance culture still lives but it's not mainstream like rock, EDM, or hip hop.

[@amyburt6535]

Amazing! Brilliant video that this spot on with the journey of Lindy Hop as a Black American Cultural Art Form, of which we are all guests in. I've being learning Lindy Hop for about 12 years now. In our dance scene, changing the way we facilitate the learning of Lindy Hop over the past couple of years from a white perspective to focus on the actual cultural values of the dance has been an eye-opening experience. We still have work to do in this area and fabulous clips like this are helping to rewrite the narrative to educate us all. Ngā Mihi /Many Thanks! Keep them coming!

[@ubroc]

She doesn't sound like a dancer.

[@SmokeyQuartzZen]

Love this. But just want to push back on the “which we are all guests in.” Not all of us are and I really dislike when people say that, like we Black folks aren’t actively here but often intentionally disregarded or cast aside. (People legit say things like, “well we are all guests here and there are no Black folks around so I am allowed to speculate and make decisions about what the black perspective would be on this or that.” Meanwhile, I literally be in the room with another black person as they say this and am like “you see me?” “Yeah I see you. Do you see me?” Meanwhile, people even pictured in this video are around and working their tails off.). This is a real pet peeve of mine. Please think about who is “we” and whether people are included or excluded in your minds eye.

[@honieethesolarpunk4895]

when i tell you ive been waiting two years for this conversation as someone big into my culture and trying to imbody every part so much of our classic arts have been taking over under us while 20v 1 shit is happening colorism and our culture is being swept away from us and we let it happen

[@loudaprile471]

this video is so wonderful for so many reasons but my favorite part might be where you subtly insinuate that you might be some sort of time traveler or vampire.

[@TanitaDee]

👀👀

[@ninamartin1084]

I was a rockabilly in London in the 80's. This phenomenon is wider than just swing and the lindyhop. Look any group of vintage enthusiasts, whether that is around cars, fashion, home furnishings, technology (vinyl records) or music and dance and you will find that they are mostly white. With the except of the scene in Japan, which is huge. Please also note that a lot of the Savoy Ballroom customers and some of the best dancers were Latinos, as were around half of the breakdance scene. For me as a displaced Latina it was all about rejecting the mainstream culture and about the joy of this underground, 'secret' scene with fabulous music, dance and vintage fashion with other people who felt the same. There were plenty of Black people in those London clubs, but then the UK has always been far less racially segregated than the USA, to put it mildly. Peace.

[@scottg.g.haller3291]

One of my favorite stories of the Swing revival was that Disney Studios shot Swing Kids (which you used a clip from) in Prague (now in the Czech Republic) in the early '90s to stand in for pre-WWII Germany. They taught all of the young Czech extras to dance Lindy Hop and after the production left -- the kids kept dancing!

[@Schteppik]

And today? Still going pretty solid! :)

[@adrianwarnock-graham8731]

Overall, this is a really nice synopsis of the last 90 years of Lindy Hop. I started dancing in 97, pre-gap ad and in the early 2000's while undertaking my degree in history and political science realized how the lindy scene was re-creating the 40's white codification of the dance. 98% of the dancers, performers, judges, competitors, and organizers were white. I began to realize the scene represented a celebration of whiteness while dancing an African-American dance. We brought our cultural values, our hierarchies, and our beigeness to the dance. We took everything the black dancers showed us and tried to institutionalize it, to create classes that copied the same methodology of Arthur Murray while also despising what he did. The scene does contain black dancers, though I don't feel fully confident that the overall scene hasn't stopped asking them to perform their blackness to legitimize our overall existence. It's still a struggle.

[@savannabaltero4375]

I could get a degree from KZbin Comments, please put me on your mailing list 😭😅😂

[@georgelionon9050]

As Lindy dancer who is also interested in history, this is all mostly correct. Except George Snowden albeit often attributed very likely did not coin the term - which btw. was likely play on "Lindbergh hopping the ocean" - but the exact origins maintain a mystery and shrouded in legend. Also the term "jitterbug" already existed in the 1920s and 30s and back then was an esteemed statement for a (super-)fan that would follow the swing bands around. Maybe in the 50s some folks ment it the way you said, with so many things happening and so many places, its hard to say anything about these origins of term stories for sure. PS: It's not only the dance, it's all of the music too that was white washed, origins removed and then became Rockabilly and later Rock. (Take Elvis Presley as example of removing all the origins)

[@georgelionon9050]

PPS: One of the unsung heroes was/were definitely the person(s) who made the Savoy ballroom a reality. The sad pun, I don't know the name(s). Not only one of the very rare places back then that had a strict no segregation policy, they allegedly also stood against racism and also sexism - and that at this time!

[@ambercherise2391]

Thank you for the Lindy Term correction. 😊

[@killerdillr]

Have you got any links to the origin of the term Jitterbug, as to my diggin into the history, it began being used aroun 1934 with the Cab Calloway tune "Jitter Bug".

[@georgelionon9050]

@@killerdillr hepsters dictionary, "a swing fan; formerly a person addicted to "jitter sauce" (liquor). "

[@seir323]

When I watched Hellzapoppin', the Lindy Hop segment with Whitey's group blew me away. Absolutely floored me. I hadn't ever seen dancing like that, even though I'd seen some 'swing' dancing in stuff before, mostly from white people. I'm really amused that "Jitterbug" was a derogatory term, and that white people were just clueless and ran with it. XD From now on the distinction between 'lindy-hopper' and 'jitterbug' will live rent free in my head.

[@junglsmor]

That scene perfectly encapsulates sooooo many things

[@konafama]

Thank you

[@adrianpaulwynne]

This is fascinating! Thanks for doing the research and sharing. Good luck with your channel

[@1koolkat1]

Soo appreciate that you put out the truth. This needs to go viral 💯

[@TanitaDee]

I’ve always loved watching Lindy dancers so I had to speak on it! thank you 😊

[@rickjames5780]

@TanitaDee , I think part of the issue that your seeing when discussing this is that there is a disconnect between the expectations the listener who is being told they appropriated (stole) the dance and the speaker. In white culture, and probably many others, it is common to take things that they "think" no one is using. But, when confronted with the fact that they have stolen something the inclination is to then, give it back. In this context that would mean, no more lindy hop. Ive been following this conversation for a long time and while i havnt polled every single black person in america, but from what i can tell, black people dont expect white people to stop dancing. Black people and other allies simply want there to be more history and credit given. But when you tell a white person they appropriated something, they dont hear, oh i stole this, i should just make sure i credit the person i stole it from and everything will be ok, white people hear, i should give it back. Theres the disconnect. And this is why when you make content, telling white people they appropriated something they will jump through so many metal hoops to justify that they did not in fact steal anything, so that they dont have to give it back. If you actually convince them they stole it, then they will feel like they need to give it back. And they will stop dancing. Its actually literally happened. It may not be your goal to get them to stop dancing, but that is not being communicated clearly. No body talking about the dances appropriation is going into much detail about what should be done about it. People just seem to be saying it and then leaving the listener up to interperate what they should do with that information.

[@alicetivarovsky7730]

Great deep dive! As a white dancer very much in love with lindy, it's important to understand its roots and sadly, teachers don't spend a lot of time honoring them.

[@SchwarzSchwertkampfer]

💯☮💯 *_History is beautiful, literally that same social behaviour, happened in 90s an 2000s an onwards when I was a kid growing up_* .

[@Auntkekebaby]

You can say the same for most things when you dig enough! It's crazy!!

[@boboloko]

Be bop was invented as a way to cover music without getting permission. They used the chords of a song but instead of playing the song’s melody, they weaved melodic lines through the chord progression

[@moo639]

"Weaving melodic lines through the chord progression" is what all jazz performers did after playing the first chorus with the original melody. What be bop did was to speed up the tempo to where no dancer could keep up. It became clear that the musicians wanted you to listen, not dance.

[@genrepunk]

It's interesting how we hear this in complaints about sampling in later generations, too, but we can take this all the way back to ragtime and talk about raggin' contests where dueling musicians would take turns playing classical pieces in a ragtime style to see whose version was better

[@cedances2362]

Thank you for the video! You pronounced whitey correctly. It was Herbert White's nickname. If you look at photos of him, you will see a distinct white line of hair on his head hence the nick name. Can be questionable without knowing the context of the name. Im a white dancer and It truly is a wonderful dance but i would say even as early as 2014 (when i started dancing) this conversation was not happening where i was from. Maybe i knew it was originally created by the black communities but i never considered that we were inadvertantly (or purposefully) excluding a whole culture from their own dance till about 2018 when we finally started having conversations about this exact topic.

[@TanitaDee]

Makes so much more sense now 😅 And yess, I initially thought of this video bc there was a small Lindy hop event near where I lived and it got me thinking about how many were unaware of the roots behind the dance. So, it’s taken a while, but I’m glad that these conversations are finally happening :)

[@TjjazzMadrid]

OMG, I haven't finished the whole vid yet, but I am SCREAAAAMING! YEEEESSSSS!

[@SmokeyQuartzZen]

My reaction this entire time!

[@npgibson69]

Thank you for posting. I was watching another channel which posted some incredible dance segments from the 30s. The videos featured all black cast of dancers, musicians and singers. The comment section was pretty excited, with a number of accusations of racism for posting these old videos. So I’m thinking people might be reluctant to show older videos, and that would contribute to a mistaken perception about the origins of this dance.

[@lilgauss]

lovely video! as someone in the modern day lindy community I appreciate continuously learning how I can be mindful of history and appreciate, not appropriate. Recently I've been getting into the sub-genre of collegiate shag and would love to learn more about the history, I'm curious if the narrative available to me online at the moment went through the filter of white lenses. thanks again for the wonderful video!

[@anonymouse5217]

Thank you for an amazing video. It captures a lot of interesting nuances too. Hope it's not a jitterbug in your nose :o

[@thegazetteyt]

As a Black swing dancer for over 10 years, yeah the scene is very gentrified and though it tries, is not very inclusive.

[@renatawlaczyga1661]

👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻 such an important video ! Thank you for creating this !

[@TanitaDee]

and thank you for watching! I appreciate it 🥰

[@BTheStark]

6:26 “vibes,” nice touch

[@lucluc8639]

A very nice summary. As a white swing dancer from europe who started in Asia, the main issue today in the scene is very gentrified/dominated by a upper middle class. Most of the guys are engineer or so, they have enough money for classes (few hundreds euro a year), for camps (which is a must do for competition to be recognized and having a chance to be a teacher) which is also a few hundreds euro included plane (🤢). So it's really hard to blend in if you don't have enough money...which often correlates with race. The problem is that the music and the dance is not popular enough nowadays such that it only attracts dancers who pays to maintain the scene alive to some extent. It quickly becomes a way to make some extra bucks by teaching. At the same it lacks affordable places for poorer people to be exposed to the music. If it was easily accessible, I'm pretty sure black people would find a way to reappropriate the music, adding all the influences of other dances that came since then.

[@JP_2030]

Lindy dance is so dope! I wise my old millennial bones could do it 🤣, great video as always 👏🏽🤎👏🏽🤣

[@GregHowley]

Old millennial bones? Dude, I'm 50 and I went out dancing last month. Frankie danced until he was in his 80s. I'll grant you that I don't like dancing to the same 200bpm tunes I used to, but you can totally do this.

[@thebeyondanne]

Similar things are happening with (dominican) bachata. Would be great to see a video about this! ♥️

[@LeeFreemanAugie]

It's marketing in the 90s and earlier. Black dancers never went away. Look at all the commercials and television for that matter in the 90s (and before).

[@monikagrist-weiner4417]

This was such a great video!!! Thank you!!!!

[@TanitaDee]

Glad you liked it!

[@kijekuyo9494]

When I see the relatively lame dancing in TikTok videos that are popular today, I'm always mindful of the history of African-American couples dancing. I show the Hellzapoppin' clip to my young students to show them the possibilities--maybe even inspiration. The Afro-Brazilian dancing community of Salvador, Bahia, has a similar heritage, except it is group dancing, where the entire audience dances in unison with very musically complementary steps.

[@swingindenver]

@FDSignifire - maybe you can share their content in a community post if it speaks to you?

[@genrepunk]

@@swingindenver there was an old F.D. video that made me think of this discussion, might have been the one about white rappers

[@swingingui]

Absolutely amazing video, congratulations! Hope you give it a try someday, and we can dance together

[@iangalloway-t2b]

sweet - good info - thanks very much - marci

[@Calhorsey]

Quebradita borrows those moves!

[@ninamartin1084]

Btw nice little samba groove at the end - are you Brazilian? Just checkin there's no appropriation going on here........lol

[@moo639]

"Jitterbug" has a very different origin that the lame one noted here. It referred to a drug addict so high he had the "jitters."

[@Drawj9862]

Very nice content once again ! 🤩👏🏻👏🏻

[@TanitaDee]

Thank you 🥰

[@niclasbengtsson6574]

It's interesting hearing from a black American about the modern view of Lindy Hop in the US. I'm a white Swede who dances Lindy Hop and Blues, and even though most dancers I've met are white (there are very few black people in Sweden) the notion that Lindy Hop would be a "white" dance or even some kind of "melting pot" dance seems so weird to me, every single class I've taken has discussed the black American history behind it, and there's a bunch of stories of how black Lindy Hop dancers were invited to Sweden to teach their moves. There is a "spin off" dance from Lindy Hop called Bugg (from Jitterbug) which is a lot more like what you talked about modern Lindy Hop in the US being.

[@genrepunk]

Whitewashing has always been a part of America. We need only look at what happened with Rock & Roll for another example, or colorism as it plays out in different countries all over the world, part of the legacy of slavery and colonization. But also, very simply, if Black dancers don't feel comfortable in a space and it ends up being entirely white, then of course a new person coming into that space and only dabbling isn't going to know that Lindy is a Black dance unless their teachers tell them so. I'm glad your teachers do.

[@imada1679]

When did you start dancing ? There was a reckoning with the history 2020 because of George Floyd’s murder and even before black dancers were fighting also in Europe against the erasure and rewriting of the history like the revival. The agnowledgement of the history, the appropriation and the teaching of the original culture was a long fight also in Europe and still is.

[@niclasbengtsson6574]

@@imada1679 I started in 2019 and personally didn't really see any shift between before and after 2020. Though the association/club whose courses I've taken are maybe more progressive than most as it's based in a university town and naturally has quite diverse members from all over the world

[@imada1679]

@@niclasbengtsson6574 That is nice to hear that you had a positive experience. best wishes!

[@RobertSpitzer]

I sort of missed the whole swing dance craze... I mean I was there, but having a beat like a cop hampers one's ability to participate.

[@yulitzazuniga7394]

Ahhhh, finally find your channel. I discovered you on Instagram

[@TanitaDee]

Hi! Glad you did 😁

[@Falruk]

As far as I remember, Whitey was called so for a white streak in his hair, though probably also for his surname White. Thus Whitey's lindy hoppers. There's still a collection of teachers in Sweden who try to keep to the origins of lindy hop as taught by Al, Frankie, Norma etc., but considering they've left Herräng, times are changing.

[@ickeroomorgan]

Would you be interested in learning Lindy Hop? The modern Lindy Hop community is trying to do the work of making an inclusive community, that elevates black presence and voices regarding the dance today.

[@Pocketfarmer1]

As Duke Ellington said ,” someday there will just be music.”

[@ime3126]

some decide deshumanise

[@swingindenver]

yeahhh. There are so many "schools" that invisibilize Blackness when it comes to the Black social dances created alongside swing music.

[@moo639]

yeahhh. And so many, like you, who invisibilize [sic] the Whiteness of the European harmony used in all jazz and swing music. The most commonly recognized "blues chord" has a minor third in the melody (possibly from Africa), but a major third in the harmony (from Church Music)! Not to mention all the French and Latin influences (see New Orleans). But I don't see this as "theft" is either direction. Blacks and Whites collaborated to create something new. Something American.

[@swingindenver]

@@moo639 where whiteness is the default Blackness deserves to be explicitly called out

[@swingindenver]

@@moo639 Michael, when whiteness is the default, it's equitable to call out Blackness. Your privilege is showing

[@swingindenver]

​@@moo639 where whiteness is the default Blackness ought to be called out. Your privilege is showing.

[@shanellmiller-c2t]

⁠@@moo639black churches yes .

[@PauletteBrockington]

You’ve made a beautifully cut video. You missed a couple of key things. Newsman Walter Winchell coined jitterbug while commenting on the white dancers in comparison to the blacks at the Harvest Moon Ball. And you have a few clips that were not Lindy at all. One was the Texas Tommy from the west coast ca. 1914.

[@TanitaDee]

Thanks for letting me know! I didn’t go into a lot of details because this video was meant to be a ‘shorter’ deep dive but it’s always good to know And in regards to the clips, my bad! Most of them indicated that it was Lindy, but as I am not a dancer myself, I could have gotten some of them mixed up 😓 Appreciate your comment, though!

[@georgelionon9050]

@@TanitaDee To be honest, if there is one person here that can make at least one black body more reappear in the dance, it is you.

[@killerdillr]

Have you got any proofs on this with Newsan Walter coining the phrace Jitterbug? . From what I understand, it was Cab Calloway in 1934 with his tune "Jitter Bug". Id love to hear more about this, please.

[@PauletteBrockington]

@@killerdillr Both Cab Calloway and Ethel Waters took the "jittering bugs" quote and made it one word. But Winchell said it while commentating on the New York Daily News' Harvest Moon Ball. Back then it was a derogatory comment.

[@killerdillr]

@@PauletteBrockington The tune by Cab is called "Jitter Bug" in two words, this was 1934. Harvest Moon Ball was first time in 1935. I know it initially was a derogatory word, but I do not know, if it stayed that way? or still does amongst the black community? I can find no articles, sites that support your telling to me about who invented it or used it first time but Cab Calloways dictionary, and that ones states it was Cab. I am indeed very interrested in getting more informations about "Jitterbug". All the best.

[@Buzzcook]

There was a swing phase in the seventies and eighties with Disco incoporating many elements of Swing or stealing them out right. White theft of black art started at the founding of the nation if not earlier. Ironically the King of Jazz was Paul Whiteman, a white man, with a segregated band.

[@richardlandrum1966]

"Ah, swing, well, we used to call it syncopation, then they called it ragtime, then jazz, now its swing. White folks, y'all sho is a mess" -Louis Armstrong (explaining what swing is on the bing crosby show)

[@alexiaslate3447]

Have you gone to a social dance and tried it out yet?? It's addicting! The community tries to honor the history of the dance - but there need to be people getting black kids into trying it

[@sisuriffs]

“Frustrated with whiteness”, “black spaces”, “white folks”, “”watered down”, “black culture”, “Sweden of all places”, “issues of race”, “systemic oppression”, “systematically dehumanized”. This video is an excellent sample of how Critical Race Theory is used as a template in 2024. Even a dance that brought (and continues to bring) so much joy to people around the world-people who were fighting and dying in their millions to destroy the masters of racial purity madness The Third Reich and Imperial Japan- Swing becomes a bleak symbol of tension and unending evil once you adopt the lens of CRT. Often people who do this see themselves as virtuous and righteous freedom fighters, oblivious to the racist tension they themselves are creating here and now.

[@tkctrlofevltn]

You should’ve tapped into west coast swing as well

[@erikheddergott5514]

In Europe Swing is linked to Count Basie, Duke Ellington and Yes: Benny Goodmann, who was associated to Charlie Christian and Lional Hampton. But with Swing as well with the Blues; the Interest from young African-Americans in these great Music-Styles is very low. Which is actually not the Mistake of us „Whiteys“. We happen to still like that old Stuff. Nobody hinders Young African Americans to reclaim their Musical Heritage!

[@ericdew2021]

So how did the West Coast Swing get into the act?

[@georgelionon9050]

West Coast Swing branched off somewhere in the later 20th century (hard to give an exact date), when it started to dance to straight rhythms instead of swing, before the boundaries was may more hazy, where some Lindy Hoppers would dance ever smoother and less bouncy.

[@dnifty1]

It is kind of hard to believe that you just discovered that swing dance originated in the BC. But beyond that, Jazz was officially promoted by the USA during WW II around the world as part of promoting American culture. As result swing dance was also exported and became famous, but because of segregation, they did often promote it with Euro American dancers and artists, like Glenn Miller who led the US Army Airforce Band and played in Europe during the war..

[@SmokeyQuartzZen]

See how she does research and sought out information about the history and nature of the dance? Very mindful, very demure.

[@terencehouston6261]

😆that happened to me too

[@Toni_Snark]

Isn’t part of it because of the rise of hip hop, R&B and disco music? Music drives dance as much as the other way around. Very difficult to gatekeep any kind of music.

[@renarddesneiges]

Wow, i'm sorry about all the white folks being super defensive in the comments and going "Hum, actually, Lindy is pretty woke and we do teach the history!". First off, i just met a dude about 5 months ago who thought the ballroom style triple-swing and lindy hop were the same thing, and second of all, to all my fellow white folks : "LEARN TO LISTEN, AND THEN DON'T TALK BACK". Take a moment. Breathe in and out. No one is insulting you, she isn't even bashing Lindy Hop, and yeah, we do have a problem with it being too white. First step in figuring this out is listening.

[@matswessling6600]

how is it a problem that "its too white" and what does it even mean? to me that just another way to say "no whites".

[@renarddesneiges]

​@@matswessling6600 Amounting "it being too white" to "no whites" is called a slippery slope fallacy. Look it up. Also, why are you being defensive? What are you scared of? Are you scared black people are going to suddenly claim that dance and stop us from dancing it? White people bringing back Lindy Hop in the 90s was full on cultural appropriation. Today, its roots may be respected a lot more than Arthur Murray's "triple swing", we may teach Lindy Hop's history in most classes, but it's still cultural appropriation. Every time i go dancing i see maybe 1 or 2 black folks on a good night. Am i embarrassed to dance something that black folks created but no longer feel welcomed in? Yes, i do. Yes, it's too white. Now what can we do about it? With a simple google search you can find plenty of articles and videos that can educate you about the Lindy Hop cultural appropriation. On a personal level, i recommend a pdf document written by Odysseus Bailer called : “A Blueprint For Cultural Inclusion” A Guideline for Instructors Teaching Black American Cultural Music and Dance Forms"". Copy-paste this title in google and you'll find a free pdf for you to read. I'm not sure anyone has all the answers, but it's a good place to start if we want to make blacks feel included again in Lindy Hop.

[@matswessling6600]

@@renarddesneiges what Ian scared of? the racism. why would you deem if your welcome or not on race? color of your skin shouldnt matter. And appropriation is a good thing, not a bad. Thinking that culture us owned by a race or ethnical group is a bad thing.

[@renarddesneiges]

@@matswessling6600 ​... ok i'm going to presume that you mean well, so i'm going to send you on a journey, let's call it "a quest towards anti-racism".... I'll give you a few suggestions : -Google "Best Anti-Rascism book", pick one to your liking, any one, and read it. -Go watch some essay videos from F.D. Signifier, literally any video of your liking, but i recommend one of his earlier videos called "How to not be an Ally". Do not comment in his comment section until you think you have a grasp on what he's saying. -Watch a Spike Lee movie... any movie, but "Do the right thing" is a classic if you haven't seen it. Reflect on it. -Or... go watch some other content from Tanita Dee! Like and subscribe! I know i did after seeing this video. The content looks pretty decent and you might learn a thing or 2 about racism.

[@genrepunk]

@@matswessling6600 "Too white" doesn't mean "oh no there are white people here". Remember what we're talking about here is culture. Lindy Hop is a part of Black culture so to take it up and make it a part of who you are without embracing or even acknowledging the culture is cringe. It's hard to see that because ballroom dance studios did such a good job commodifying partner dance in the first half of the 20th century, along with dance cinema where white dancers were given roles that Black dancers couldn't get no matter how talented they were, that we think of it as an activity disconnected from culture.

[@Krakenekark]

I'm not sure it's really fair to say that black originators of the dance have been completely erased from it. My first ever swing dance teacher was a spanish guy who, on our first ever lesson, said 'this is a Black American dance' and 'Frankie Manning was the best ever Lindy Hopper, go look him up'. I don’t think I've ever taken a beginners class where it hasn't been mentioned that Lindy Hop was invented by Black people in America, and it was a good year before I even heard anyone mention Dean Collins! Of course more can always be done, in particular with regards to widening access to the dance for historically marginalised groups, and helping modern dancers to gain an even deeper understanding of the history of not just the dance but the music, but the idea that modern dancers have completely erased Black Americans from the history of the dance seems completely foreign to my own experience with getting involved in the swing dance community. (I do also think that, if we're talking about a black artform being commodified for white audiences, a lot was left out wrt quite how badly Whitey's Lindyhoppers were treated in the name of that commodification - for anyone that wants to learn more, Norma Miller's memoir 'Swingin At The Savoy' is both just generally fantastic read, and a really good insight into what conditions were like for these dancers at the time.)

[@kblind]

Commenting mostly to boost visibility of the video. But also I'll add: I agree that in a lot of cases the Black origins haven't been erased exactly, I think rather that a small number of swing-era dancers have been beatified and tokenised, while the community they were a part of has been largely ignored.

[@mikhailbakunin4776]

Ngl video tittle lead me to think of something different....

[@jazzcook]

You didn't say where the name came from. Wasn't it Lindberg, the aviator?

[@leandrrob]

if the venue was 50% black it was not "black music" or "black dance" at all, it was a genuine underground movement like break or most other things we label "black" it was something that included all sorts of people, including the blacks that are usually excluded, then years later some white rich guy will see it and be surprised by the fact that the movement includes a lot of black people, sometimes even more than 50% and he will be surprised because his world is made of white only, then he will monetize the thing and sell as "black music" or dance or whatever, and black people will buy this lie and be even proud (because why not) and later white people will want to be like them and will create some guy like emminen to be their hero

[@robertmiller532]

You talked about savoy-style lindy hop, which is not equivalent to swing dances at all

[@swingindenver]

Please explain

[@robertmiller532]

@@swingindenver I want to point that the title and therefore the info is a bit misleading because the term swing is not equivalent to the term lindy hop, and she talked almost exclusively about the harlem lindy hop scene but then just omitted everything happening simultanously at the SoCal scene involving other swing dances, which I find quite unfair. Also, in my point of view, and as I watch different festivals happening around the world, I find that they are mainly harlem-oriented; probably the only big festival in which smooth style rules is, Camp Hollywood ? Which is indeed likely and coherent in relation to where it takes place.

[@JoshiaColman]

W. E. B. Dubois last name is pronounced ‘doo-boyss’ not ‘doo-bwah’ 3:07

[@TanitaDee]

Yeah, I realized too late that I mispronounced it in English. My first language is French, so I pronounced it the way I normally would (because the name DuBois comes from Old French)

[@jazzcook]

Why is the sound on the clips so bad?

[@TanitaDee]

My bad, I didn’t want to get a copyright strike :(

[@Auntkekebaby]

The problem is the fact that truth offends folks in the comment section. You can love and do it. Lies, erasure, and sustained abuse is the problem!! You don't get to lift every damn thing from bp and treat them like sht at the same time. If that's not you, close your mouth.

[@terencehouston6261]

How about a show on Queen Califia?

[@alexmars1511]

Have you checked out the Asians dancing funk.? We all do it. Promote the new generation of funk, swing, mambo, cha cha cha. Keep it live.

[@bobbyschannel349]

A lot of people think that it's a white dance. Even I at one point.. until I begin to do research into the dance and in the history of the Harlem renaissance..... In fact, if you go on KZbin You'll see so much Lindy Hop competition dances from all over the world.. and you will see very few or no black people at all.. You know.. I was going to ask the question about big bae, you mentioned shorty george.. but you didn't say much about big bae..... the interesting thing about them was that she was 6 ft 2, and he was barely 5 ft.. but. I'm no longer interested in that.... in fact, I have become less interested in the Lindy Hop conversation.. I have become a little bit more interested in that bug lol. First of all. Where did that bug come from. And you didn't feel it crawling on your face LOL. By the way. If that bug didn't come out. It's in your nostrils now LOL. Probably forever😂😂

[@moo639]

She knows everything about the black past of the Lindy Hop but she doesn't know how to pronounce Whitey's?

[@TanitaDee]

I never claimed to know everything, lol. I simply delve into various topics on this channel, and this time, it happened to be the Black roots of the Lindy Hop. Also, English isn’t my first language, so I may get certain pronunciations wrong. I’d say I’m doing pretty good for a multilingual speaker though, how many languages do you speak? :)

[@moo639]

@@TanitaDee How many languages do I speak? What a stupid irrelevant question. The question is "why is swing so white." I take swing dance lessons IN HARLEM every Tuesday night and only once in a while does a single black person show up. Swing is white because white people show up and continue to dance it.

[@TanitaDee]

I asked because you’ve left multiple comments bringing up my pronunciation. Furthermore, to say that swing is white because only white ppl dance to it is so reductive. Not only have Black ppl continuously danced the Lindy in Black spaces (it wasn’t codified as much as it was in white spaces - as I said in the video, it was ‘just dancing’) but your comment basically overlooks 80+ years of Jim Crow, segregation, etc… Some Black dancers still feel uncomfortable in Lindy Hop spaces and that’s due to the history behind the dance ~ and continued whitewashing ~ something that your comment glosses over. I appreciate the fact that you’ve found joy in the dance, but there’s no need to get defensive or capitalise the fact that you dance IN HARLEM. I listened to what Black Lindy dancers were saying and conveyed that - in the best way I could - in my video.

[@moo639]

@@TanitaDee Multiple comments??? I left ONE comment about your pronunciation of "Whitey." That was it. YOU are the one who asked "Why is Swing so White?" Now you are saying that "Black ppl continuously danced the Lindy in Black spaces" so why is the title of your piece WHY IS SWING SO WHITE? Me defensive about Harlem? Me capitalize re Harlem? I merely said that EVEN IN HARLEM most of the dancers who show up for class are white. The other "problem" is that we sometimes have all or mostly all men or all women. That means that men are learning to follow and women are learning to lead. Nothing could be better--they learn to be much better dancers that way.

[@TanitaDee]

Now you’re just being disingenuous, buddy 🤣 Michael, you’ve left 10+ comments on this channel. You’re also being purposefully obtuse and defensive...though, I’ve seen your dancing and I understand why now, lol. Anyways, this conversation isn’t going anywhere so it’ll be the last time I reply to your comment. It’s been fun Michael, thanks for the engagement 😘

[@judypritchett8342]

As one of the white people (actually I’m Jewish) who became hooked on the original Lindy Hop in the mid-eighties, I’m not sure what we did wrong by loving the Lindy Hop. Instead of doing the white-washed ballroom school version we sought out (and paid) the original Savoy Ballroom dancers to teach us and to attend the Sunday night dances in the Cat Club. We learned everything we could about the Savoy ballroom in the 30s and 40s and made sure that this info was shared in panels, in a newsletter, on the internet and, ultimately in a book on Frankie Manning’s life. Frankie Manning went to Sweden and then anywhere he was invited to teach the newcomers this dance, breathing life back into it. To use Norma Miller’s words, “he resuscitated the Lindy Hop - mouth to mouth.” It doesn’t make sense to blame us, but why not try harder to dig into some of the real causes that the Lindy Hop became so popular in white America in the first place in forties. For example, a white troupe of dancers, led by Dean Collins who had himself learned the dance at the Savoy, appeared in close to 40 major Hollywood films while the black dancers appeared in just two, Day at the Races and Hellzapoppin’. And those dance scenes were removed from the versions of the film that played in the South. In fact in order for removing them to be seamless in the Southern versions, these dance scenes were not in any way connected to the actual storyline of the films. I am all for getting the story out about how and why the Lindy Hop became so white, but let’s try harder to get the real story and not blame white people who loved this dance.

[@swingindenver]

"a white troupe of dancers appeared in close to 40 major Hollywood films while the black dancers appeared in just two" is a good starting point for blaming white supremacy and racist structures that existed and still exist that continue to affect the modern day Lindy Hop scene. You can also compare how white dancers got to showcase social dancing more in the movies whereas Black dancers in Hollywood films typically exhibited speed, athleticism, feats of daring to play into stereotypes of the time. Then you have white dancers cosplaying Black bodies because white dancers weren't being told to bring themselves into the dance or learning from teachers that weren't of the culture mimicking the culture. Then you look at the fact that Black women were historically excluded from teaching all these white dancers. It was a lot of white women stepping in who weren't part of the culture. Adds up to a whole lot of whiteness invisibilizing Blackness intentional or not.

[@SmokeyQuartzZen]

With respect to her, Norma said a lot of things. Even in death, folks still tokenize her and Frankie and throw their words at any given moment against anyone, including other black dancers, who disagree, do things differently, or make them uncomfortable in any way. It seems like you’re feeling blamed for something. Which part of the video attributed blame or fault to anyone?

[@user-pq1wy2iz4t]

The white version of lindy hop sounds different than the black version. The music is not the same. It's almost like white people took the "vulgarness" out of it.

[@alexmars1511]

Voluntarily, I doubt. Think of it like a form of asylum, almost.