Why is your Advice being Ignored? How to Teach Sprouts in FFXIV

[@NatiiixLP]

The existence of the Cure 1 website, combined with the fact that it's actually super detailed, tells a rather amusing story about the XIV community.

[@TheObsesedAnimeFreaks]

"what cure one is bad? I just keep fishing for free cures.... accidently because... it's next to cure 2."

[@NatiiixLP]

@@TheObsesedAnimeFreaks I feel like some people are either coming from WoW, thinking that mana issues on healer are a massive limiting factor, or they haven't been blessed with the knowledge of Lucid Dreaming, or... Cure 1 worked for them at level 10, so surely it will work just fine for the rest of the game. :)

[@aaronvillanueva3592]

The stop using cure 1 website is informational and definitely a good resource for new healers, the problem is, just like as it was outlined in the video, that players won't explain why they are sending the link in the first place and expect someone online to open a random link sent by a stranger. If the sender took the time to politely ask if they could give some advice, then that's another thing.

[@NatiiixLP]

@@aaronvillanueva3592 It changes nothing. If anything, a random link without a prompt is more likely to be opened, since adding context reduces curiosity and makes it feel more like a social engineering attack. Unless you specifically ask for something, like a guide video after wiping on Haukke Manor (Hard) last boss 4 times in a row due to over-DPS, you don't want to click anything. I always send, an obviously unprompted, parody of the Gaius speech in every Praet DR. I don't expect people to open it, but adding any context makes it less funny. The URL of the website makes it clear what you're trying to say without any context. 99% of the time, in any relatively high-level duty, you're wasting everyone's time by telling anyone what to do with their job or any non-duty-specific mechanic, because they're evidently too stubborn to listen, or have some other insane reason to behave the way they do. By trying to force reason onto them, you rarely achieve a net positive. I've seen this in WoW, I've seen this in school, I see it in work every day. People don't want to change. Even if they're wrong, they're committed to their sunk cost fallacy. It's good to point out some obvious major issues, but they will rarely be positively received.

[@christopherbailey3547]

@aaronvillanueva3592 Who’s going to do all of that in a dungeon. Why are people so fragile that they can’t take useful advice. It’s not like you’re asking them to change their glamour because it’s ugly. The coddling in this game needs to stop, because this is why they make the game brain dead easy because players want to spam cure 1 or blizzard 4

[@xalzaixhungers2442]

„Meet people with curiosity, not judgement“ is probably the best piece of advice I‘ve ever heard, and it applies here as well

[@SkullQueen_Chloe]

Agreed. I was running origenics recently, and I had a sage who was only using diagnostic, no eukraisa, no kardia, nothing. Thankfully we had some chill dps so as the tank i stopped everything and said “hey, (healer’s name). Are you using eukraisa? I’m worried and I wanna help.” Before spending 10 minutes teaching him how to play sage. I taught each of them how to do the boss fights and by the end of it, I saw these three sprouts, one of which literally didn’t know what any of his abilities did, and brought them to a point where I’d say they could confidently do ACRF. Which considering they were playing like they had literally just created their first ever character in their first ever video game, I was proud of them. I hope those sprouts are doing well.

[@Alice-fw4cu]

It's a core tenet in many cult-deprogramming techniques.

[@johnlarken4744]

With the Cure 1 thing, the issue is that there is an issue to be solved. This reminds me of how regens used to work with agro. I remember trying a lot of ways to ask healers to stop using regens while I was pulling mobs. Nothing ever worked. I eventually found a macro to take all regens off my character so I started using that and ignoring the problem. Later SE patched that interaction out of the game and there was no problem any more. Cure 1 should just upgrade into Cure 2.

[@mcmarcuz23]

Damn, you have openers for giving advice now? They seem pretty good, I will try these out!

[@CaetsuChaijiCh]

Instead of a gemdraught I recommend a nice cup of tea! 😁

[@ElannaChariakin]

Can we practice them on a dummy ?

[@ovrbi]

@@ElannaChariakin You shouldn't call sprouts that!

[@jonamar3965]

​@@ElannaChariakinYour bathroom mirror is a surpisingly effective dummy.

[@NuchiAsaki]

Framing advice positively works in real life too.

[@BrandoB2557]

"They get so caught up in defending their position, they have no time to hear what I have to say. Giving my advice a chance would be like admitting they were wrong. In front of me." I feel like you inadvertently described modern American discourse.

[@PhoenicisEstuans]

or just...modern online discourse, while definitely more obvious in the USA its def an issue everywhere online -_-

[@Boyzby]

@@PhoenicisEstuans Don't you know? America is the only place that ever has problems! It really does annoy me when people are so quick to crap on America, or say "the internet," when "the internet" is just… people worldwide. It's not a unique problem-it's not like Twitter or KZbin comments are only available in the US.

[@BurningBridgeStudios]

@@Boyzby America just had an election so obviously he'd mention America.. Despite how you may or may not feel about the US a very large majority of the world (and especially countries in NATO) paid a lot of attention to the recent election. So obviously it'd be what's on his mind. This isn't some "har dee dar america only country lol" moment.

[@ashensage7968]

I had someone ask me once "Do you want some AST advice?" and I was like sure, because I want to try and learn the class not just level it and play subpar. So that's what I often open with. I have informed healers to DPS, usually by just letting them know that they can try and balance some damaging spells and healing to see what makes them comfortable. Had a sprout laugh at me and go "My measly damage doesn't make a difference" and so I kindly let them know that post 50, it really does. At least the DPS backed me up and didn't go all "wah let them play how they want". Yesterday I had a DRK in a ShB dungeon who was single pulling and only using mits all at once on bosses. I was thinking of how to help them out when the drg ran ahead and seemingly encouraged the sprout to pull big. They didn't mit once and I ran out of heals but we didn't wipe. They said sorry and they'll small pull for me, when the DRG said "They are a battle mentor, trust them more :)" Which is the first time someone has not been mean to me for being a mentor (not that I don't go around thinking I am better than anyone) So I started simple and asked them try to use TBN on CD during pulls. We did another w2w and while the TBN did help, they were still dropping until they realised huh if I use rampart, my hp doesn't drop as fast on their own. Last pull they were cycling mits properly and I think just the cause and effect from me being able to keep them alive made a lil lightbulb pop in their mind XD

[@marslara]

if ever applicable I think a great and SHORT video that can help tanks with CD usage in dungeons is joonbobs tank video. If not have them watch that, can always watch yourself to get a better idea of what advice to give newer tanks.

[@WhtCrstlJudgmntDrgn]

You know, I never looked at it that way. I actually just take a rather... direct approach. If I see someone struggling, I just ask if they're okay or are they nervous. Sometimes, we just smoothbrain, and it just happens. Hell, I'm the type to make a joke if I botch a mechanic. I've met a lot of friends through this method and gotten quite a few people over their "tankxiety." You're welcome. But this is seriously good as an approach, I might have to incorporate it into how I deal with things myself!

[@CaetsuChaijiCh]

That is also good advice. Sometimes, the reason that healer is spamming heals and not attacking is because they're terrified of not healing enough and then everyone gets mad. Things like that! So letting them know it's okay can sometimes help all on its own! 😊 Taking the blame as the more experienced player to cover the sprouts that are actively learning is also something I do 😁

[@elijahfeuerstein4710]

@@CaetsuChaijiCh I'm not sure if ya worded that how you intended? I read that as taking the blame like when the younglings goof up? Which might be nice and smooth things over in the moment, but might betray them later if they start looking for others to blame. I prefer taking the honest understanding/non-judgemental approach. "yeah you dun goofed up, but you're new and learning. We've all been there you're good, and I'll tell ya what ya need to know if ya ask" kinda thing.

[@CaetsuChaijiCh]

@elijahfeuerstein4710 no I worded that correctly. For example, I might pull extremely big in a dungeon as a tank. If we succeed I might complement the healer for managing it. If we wipe, I will say sorry my bad and offer to pull less. Usually my observation is that the healers ask to try again and it tends to succeed on the run back. The point is to make it clear that I'm taking the blame if we fail so they are safe to try and push their limits 😉

[@TheLeft4Dead2Player]

This is a great video, really touches on what annoys me a lot with communities like "r/TalesFromDF," where they practically tell people how to play, when it really doesn't effect what is happening. I once had an Expert Roulette where we haven't had a death and stuff is still dying fast, but our Sage calls out the Summoner for not using Searing Light, with the line "do y'all not use party buffs." So unnecessary, either say nothing, or try being polite like: "Hey, SMN. Not to be one of those people, but don't forget about Searing Light :D" Also your bit about not explaining mechanics, before they've even happened. It annoys me so much! I honestly really enjoy wiping, especially in 8-/24-man content. Then everyone has a chat in party/alliance and some jokes are made, and everyone's having a good time.

[@aaronvillanueva3592]

This is honestly something barely anyone brings up. If you arent being accommodating and immediately attack someone for not knowing the game, of course the sprout is going to rage at you

[@CaetsuChaijiCh]

Exactly. It makes sense they wouldn't be appreciative of the advice if it is offered rudely!

[@egettinby5173]

I like to use “Hey, don’t forget to X :)” it’s better for higher level players, but it implies that they already know and have just forgotten, it gives them an out from embarrassment which I think is one of the reasons people get so defensive - getting called out by a stranger in front of strangers isn’t exactly comfortable and it makes people go into fight mode

[@marslara]

i always thought that sounded more patronizing depending on the context 😂 that might just be me though.. I think the only time it sounds okay is when you're actively learning a fight and someone forgets a mechanic or something. (extreme and up)

[@SierenGreenwalt-wp3ub]

I have held a longstanding belief in this game: "Final Fantasy XIV players do not learn from constructive criticisms. They learn from embarrassing consequences."

[@CaetsuChaijiCh]

Hahaha that is really funny 🤣🤣🤣 I mean this also works surprisingly often in other things in life!

[@BrandoB2557]

Honestly, I feel like you could replace "Final Fantasy players" with "People" and that statement would still be true.

[@benmorrow1701]

In truth, players learn from different things.

[@Ryu_Makkuro]

So true. This is also when I notice a curebot, I simply stop using the mits as a tank and see how far said spam gets them. After that I reach out and see if there's a hope in said player, or a lost cause. So far I'd like to say it's 50-50... but realistically, it's more 33-66. People just REALLY don't like getting any advice whatsoever.

[@thatgayliengremlinp4766]

​@@Ryu_Makkuro its so funny when you get the opposite situation, I didn't know it was possible 😂 had a tank in Tam-Tara not use mitigation at all (not a sprout as I remember it) and telling me as the healer to just heal, so I became a cure bot just like they asked... That run took so much longer than it needed to 😂 I was this 🤏 close to asking if they knew what Rampart was and if they had it on their bar

[@iamjdn94]

Reminds me of the time in Halatali and the tank just did a huge pull and didn't really use any defensives, died (cause I used cure 1 a couple times between stone spams), and immediately sent me the stop using cure 1 website. I just replied, "I'm sorry. I get cure ii at level 30, but I should have technically focused on healing you..." And he felt so bad. LOL

[@Yoshinator]

I had a Red Mage in a dungeon once that I could tell just picked it up. Level 50 dungeon, starter job clothes and I noticed he was just casting veraero/verthunder and I told him. "Hey you should try using Jolt, then use Veraer/Verthunder, it'll make the game more fun." I could see him try it and he was like "Oh yeah that's 100 times better thank you" then went on about how he just picked up the Job and stuff. I'm one of the few (sadly) that take their status as mentor seriously, even when I play on my alt that doesn't have it on.

[@bgc2041]

Sometimes HOW you say something is more important than WHAT.

[@NuchiAsaki]

Like the Penn Jillette dog video.

[@magamisic5924]

Gonna disagree. Because even if you change how you say it, the player base lately ignores advice regardless of how or what you said

[@furo822]

The only advice I would give is "tank stance please" . . . although I can heal up everyone as sage xdd

[@qamarqammar7629]

I will admit to sometimes asking for tank stance myself :).

[@duncanmacleod6274]

Someone needs to tell this to 90% of FFXIV social media. I like how basic social skills qualify as gaming tips, but it's completely true.

[@NuchiAsaki]

Or just people in general, on social media and in real life.

[@iantaakalla8180]

So once again, the general rudeness of people and enforcing of stuff ruins an MMO. I suppose MMOs really gel horribly with humans in general.

[@NuchiAsaki]

@@iantaakalla8180 It's not ruined, in my experience at least. I have more positive interactions than negative ones.

[@livingdeadty]

Facts. I typically treat people like people and most of the time, there's never an issue

[@UnstoppableSmooze]

Doton... It's been the bane of my existence seeing so many max level players using it on single target

[@CaetsuChaijiCh]

It always hurts to see! 😰

[@TaranTatsuuchi]

Yeah, everyone should avoid STD's (Single Target Dotons)

[@TheGreatDanish]

I use single target doton. Because I forget how to use hyoton frequently.

[@red5robb1]

@@TheGreatDanish at least you are honest about it!

[@benmorrow1701]

It just stands out so much to other players as an obviously wrong move. It shows up even for players who have others spell effects set to off.

[@marus8368]

I recently met a sprout Conjurer in the Central Shroud and noticed they were backing up from some mobs while casting Aero on them repeatedly, so I told them that Aero was a damage over time effect that only stacks once on an enemy, and that they should cast Stone after applying Aero to defeat those mobs quicker even if it makes them take some damage. They took my advice to heart and thanked me over a /tell later. Advice and criticism can sometimes be mistaken for one another, but I feel the main deciding factor is how one goes about presenting it. Being respectful about it and providing a solution to the problem at hand is the way to go instead of just pointing something out and expecting people to figure it out themselves immediately afterwards.

[@Scerttle]

I definitely gauge how I react based on dungeon level. If it's anywhere in ARR or HW I'll usually say "hey, mind if I mention a tip for

[@ryskar_]

I had a really helpful experience a few months ago. I was new to Bard/Archer, and when I took aggro from a mob the tank hadn't touched yet, I started kiting it, trying to kill it from range. The tank said something along the lines of, "Gentle reminder: always bring mobs to the tank." To which I thanked them. I now do that out of instinct whenever a mob comes after me. People on the forums and subreddit will sometimes advocate for *not* giving advice because "Nobody will listen, you won't help them", though of course that's the minority. However, ever since I came back from a decade hiatus, I've been really impressed with how patient the community is; when I load into a raid and I'm like, "Hey, I'm new to this one, so please bear with me." Someone will usually be like, "Don't worry, I've got you." Which immediately helps put me at ease. Now I do the same thing to newer players. Thank you for the videos, dude. I'm glad that there are people like you in the community.

[@TheIvoryDingo]

Personally, I only tend to give advice after a wipe has occured or if someone is VERY noticeably messing up. Though I sometimes do it if I see a new player in a place with not as obvious mechanics (like a "use fruit for stacking DoT" in Aurum Vale).

[@toxicnoodle3142]

Yeah it’s not even worth trying to teach people small stuff they gota want to learn themselfs

[@MetalOWLD2-lt7io]

Giving Advice Opener and Rotation

[@HamsterPants522]

My least favorite randoms in a duty will phrase their feedback passive aggressively, for example: "you took a bunch of damage there for no reason xD" or, "????? xD". They're so annoying because a video game is not important enough to justify being rude.

[@CaetsuChaijiCh]

It is funny how xD has become very synonymous with sentences that could start with "no offense but... [something offensive]" they just say nothing because they know what they want to say is rude 😰

[@plattbagarn]

@@CaetsuChaijiCh No offense but nice shoes.

[@S0ulC41ib3r]

Along with swallowing your pride, I believe it is also important to remember that we were all that sprout at one point. I know I was resilient to a lot of things because I didn't think it was that important at the time for what ever reason. Through my time with the game I learned and developed as a player. It is all a very tricky situation, but I know everyone has each others best interests in mind, it just takes longer for some to grasp. :3

[@TheKeyblader133]

Sometimes i STILL feel like I'm a sprout in hiding XD

[@ElannaChariakin]

I like the fact that you give us advice in this video the same way that you suggest us to do it in the game^^ With, of course, a detailed and relevant reflection :)

[@CaetsuChaijiCh]

I at least have the slight advantage that I can hopefully assume you want my advice in the video as well! 😁😄

[@KitaBFawkes]

We find that in teaching people, one of the most important things is to lead by example. Lots of people give good advice, but then do not follow it themselves. This also leads to how we introduce things... commonly, we will ask players to chat with us after, so we can ask rotation questions! Not just questions about why that player is off-meta (maybe they don't have materia equipped!) but having a sprout explain their thought process is really helpful to knowing what they need to actually be taught. I track party DPS through watching the enmity gauges. If I am playing a lower DPS class, like Bard, and am out DPSing a higher DPS class, like Samurai, I will know what the issue I need to actually address even *is* A lot of people assume it is a lack of knowledge. I find it is almost always a lack of philosophy. That people don't realise we're disrespecting the time we're borrowing from other players when we intentionally refuse to learn. It isn't that they don't know or read. It is that it is "just a game." The players who drag us down and refuse to learn don't internalise that I am not a content bot. They are wasting my time, while I'm trying not to waste theirs. This disparity is partially to blame.

[@lanah_tyra]

As a fellow mentor... I never pressed the like button this fast in my life. Really great explanation! You can only teach people who want to learn, so first step is always to figure out does this person want to learn? If yes, then how can I best help them to learn.

[@Bonzi77]

my favorite is the post-duty lecture. if somebody seems COMPLETELY lost, after the duty i'll ask if they wanna stick around, i'll give them a few fundamentals, and then offer a video guide for more details. that's usually only in mid-level content though, *especially* expansion jobs (think red mage in MS Roulette) usually fun when it happens though. knowing a decent amount about how every jobs plays goes a long way here

[@Mfire33]

7:03 I agree, the dungeon where a lv70 dps kept asking me to 'stop trolling' when I was attacking after I died as a healer because the tank didn't keep the agro on all the mobs was not the best time I had in this game lol

[@toxicnoodle3142]

Unless the tank is not aoeing you can save yourself by running the mobs into the tank and he will pick them up

[@elijahfeuerstein4710]

@@toxicnoodle3142 I wish this was more obvious to people. If I'm playing healer I don't have rescue to save someone from the jaws of death... I have it to bring the DPS back from narnia so the tank can grab mobs... After I get tired of playing the Benny Hill theme music in my head that is...

[@woolwort9979]

Not a mentor, but I like running old extreme content synced while avoiding my MSQ(I'll get there one day Dawntrail). I prefer a blind pull just to see what people already know, check for questions and explain if anyone has any then go again. Usually works out fine. I also personally hate "Can I give advice" and then some emoticon, feels a bit patronizing to me but that's a me issue.

[@BP-bq9uz]

Checking for boundaries is a healthy and normal thing to do.

[@woolwort9979]

@@BP-bq9uz I was specifically talking about the emoticon. Not the just asking.

[@jelato7]

The smiley face irks me too, I get that it's an attempt to soften the blow when a potentially well-intended helper is concerned that their tone could be misinterpreted, but it can sometimes still come off a little pious.

[@Gloriankithsanus]

@@jelato7 better pious than aggressive, don't you think?

[@woolwort9979]

@@Gloriankithsanus I tune out both equally. Just drop the smiley face.

[@sigridiot7103]

your example of someone being "wrong" when correcting your play actually helped put things into perspective for me. while i've never been intentionally aggressive when giving advice, after watching this, i thought back to the time i was told "save your buffs for boss instead of using them on trash, much better" and then got hit with the "nevermind." when i didn't immediately respond, and realized how i may have unintentionally come across that same way before. in this case, i just said "oh okay, i've been told the opposite in the past" cause i didn't want to start an argument about something that honestly isn't even that big of a deal, and that, even if i disagree, do understand the reasoning behind i appreciate having advice on how to make telling someone that they could be playing better in a way that carry less risk of upsetting people. i like teaching, and always try my best to be polite, and it usually goes over well! but i've definitely made some mistakes when trying to help in the past

[@Obokralipsis]

So, giving in to the video... why not use buffs on trash packs?

[@sigridiot7103]

​@@Obokralipsis really, i think it comes down to thinking about it on a surface level. when i started, i instinctively thought i should save them for bosses, since trash don't last as long and aren't "real fights". i do still see how someone may think that, and not realize that those pulls do (most of the time) last long enough that you still get the full effect, so more overall uses = more overall damage = faster clear

[@CaetsuChaijiCh]

Indeed, not only that, the big aoe pulls tend to only work reliably because the pull is over before the tanks cooldowns run out. And if the dps are not pumping the gas at that time, the tank might run out of cooldowns first. Meanwhile, while holding cooldowns for bosses could reduce the total fight length a small amount (in most cases, cooldowns on trash still gives the same amount of cooldowns on bosses), the boss is more like an endurance test than a dps check in most dungeons, so it doesn't matter as much! 😁

[@Sammysapphira]

The "why" needs to be included. Don't just tell people in a matter of fact without justification. "You can use a free rotation of all your cooldowns on the first double pull between bosses. On the 2nd double pull you can use 30-60 seconds. Then everything is up for the boss!" This immediately clears up any "but my mom's friends uncle told me NEVER use cooldowns on trash" by providing them with a logical understanding that they can personally grasp rather than an arbitrary "law" that people make up.

[@sigridiot7103]

@@Sammysapphira yeah, if i was trying to explain this to someone, i'd definitely do it like this. in this scenario, i was just trying to go "oh okay, this was why i was doing it like that" to kinda dodge the whole thing, because i was worried about starting an argument if i explained, given their attitude when "correcting" me on how i was playing. which, the fact i felt that way, is just more proof that it's important to make sure you give advice the right way!

[@NuchiAsaki]

I'm not opening any URL that some random player tells me to. I only give advice if I am asked for it. Over my many years of playing various MMOs, I have learned that while some people take pride in being good at a game, other people take pride in being bad at it. The ones who want to improve will do research and learn from KZbin channels like yours or the many websites devoted to this topic, or simply ask for help. The ones who do not want to improve will ignore any advice or even become hostile if you offer it. It is important to help those who ask for it and are receptive to it but arguing with someone over the correct way to play will often take longer than just doing it the wrong way, and leave both of you in a bad mood afterwards. I have learned to stop caring if someone is playing sub-optimally. It's just a game, there is no reason to be upset.

[@CaetsuChaijiCh]

This is also why I typically only start to offer advice in the first place when a player is extremely off. If they just play slightly worse than average, who cares. They use cure 1 a bunch, but at least they're attacking? It's fine. But I usually use one of those openers I mentioned to gauge if the person would receive advice. Because, as you say, forcing someone to take advice that don't want it is a waste of everyone's time

[@NuchiAsaki]

@@CaetsuChaijiCh Yeah, I say similar things like "would you like some advice? :D" or when explaining a mechanic, I try to phrase it as more of a suggestion and include encouragement like "don't worry, we'll get it eventually :D maybe we should try doing x". I think the colon plus capital D combo helps to prevent anyone from feeling attacked and closing themselves off from help.

[@Gloriankithsanus]

@@NuchiAsaki "Would you like some help" implies they're shit at what they're doing and saying "yes" feels humiliating. When they are doing something wrong, just ask them if there is a "specific reason you are tanking without stance today? :D" The ":D" is always a good invitation to have fun.

[@NuchiAsaki]

@@Gloriankithsanus "is there a specific reason you are tanking without stance today? :D" could be read as rude, even with the :D. In that situation, I would use the auto translate system to politely request that they use the appropriate stance skill for their job. If they don't use it, I will assume it's just a difference in playstyle and I will have to play around it. I use the word advice instead of help or tip, people tend to respond more positively to it.

[@4.1132]

Honestly some reverse psychology often works too. Instead of „you did XYZ wrong“ saying „please do XYZ, it would help or help with [insert people or thing]” or “XYZ does [insert positive effect and lay it on thick]” tends to work better. People generally perceive negative emotions stronger, so appealing to their own self interest or self esteem makes them more likely to listen. Granted from experience, unless you’re doing full one on one teaching in VC (even then milage may vary), most people will not retain a lot of information from a single interaction or massive walls of text from some site. Really teaching is frankly also more of a guild thing, because you need more people to effectively train stuff and create scenarios where you can really simulate something that could actually happen while still giving the one learning enough time to absorb and react and do it multiple times if necessary. Small disclaimer: I have never taught in FF14, however I did teach in other games

[@Gilese_]

I'm not a very patient person, so I have multiple ocasions where I won't bother trying giving advices (it also doesn't help that english is not my main language). But sometimes I can tell some people are nervous, specially as tank and healer, and I'll tell them that "it's ok, we can go through this" after a wipe, and explain the most important mecs of the fight for them. And I sometimes also send these people tells after the duty is done to let them know they did a good job. Might not be a life changing but I hope it helps them to feel more confident somewhat. I will definitely use your tips for my mentor runs, thank you for the video!

[@Aitherea]

Sometimes I literally just ask "Do you mind if i give you a tip/advice?" and if they say no, I respect it. Or sometimes I'll simply make a statement about how xyz can be helpful to use because its better than whatever other skill, but that's all ill say even if they *dont* stop using the worse skill; I wont repeat it. Sometimes, people arent ready, but I imagine as they play the game theyll be told these things several times and eventually decide that maybe they should take the advice xD I also try not to load on too much advice. Some people have several places they can improve and I usually just focus on one thing so as not to overwhelm them and make them feel horrible. Also give a good job at the end of the dungeon, or ill say something like "youre doing a great job, but did you know this skill can help you more?" Anywho, I think this video is super important!

[@Achridian]

indeed, i do the same. i try to lead with asking if they want advice, which leaves the option for learning up to them. anyone interested in improving will be more willing to listen, and i don't have to explain anything to people who don't want to.

[@elijahfeuerstein4710]

Only a few minutes in, but usually my method is instead of telling someone they're doing poorly I go with some variant of: "hey you're doing great, but I can give you some advice to help you be amazing"

[@infernotheprotogen5736]

I like that when you were using an only ice black mage as an example you actually had footage of just that. I didn't realize it at first till they placed laylines and continued spamming blizzard

[@Hengga]

I was a Cure 1 spammer when I started healing. For me it made more sense because lower MP and faster cast time + that "15% chance next Cure II will cost no MP" tooltip. In Aurum Vale when someone pointed out Cure 2 was better I felt so damn embarrassed. That person was nice and polite but one other dumbass in the party started laughing at me... Im still angry at that guy and this happened a looong time ago! 😅🤬

[@SageTigerStar]

It does seem to be one of those situations where the comment "Read your Tooltips" doesn't apply. Reading Tooltips can be helpful in learning a bit about how skills work, but putting those skills into practice can be an entirely different entity. In my personal experience, I can't really see how certain skills work together unless they specifically mention the other skills or turn into them. You can look at the Red Mage opener and there's nothing in the tooltips that tells you that any of that is optimal, it's all player experience/discovery.

[@GiganticPyro]

15% chance is bait

[@cross6781]

there's a phenomenon in WoD called the "doton 1 case" where ninjas use doton on the first boss of the raid, because supposedly, DOT's eventually end up dealing more damage if you don't know how tics happen. everytime I see it, I type "Ninjas, here is a tip: Doton is a gain on 2, if you are facing a single target, raiton is more damage in general". I'm not pressed if people listen to me, but when we get to the second solo boss, I don't see the dotons anymore, so I assume it worked, which is nice.

[@jedikitteh]

This is good life advice, not just for players to the critically acclaimed mmorpg final fantasy xiv. This is life advice, Approach people in real life this way too.

[@Silvershadowfire]

One thing I've done when giving advice after a wipe is phrasing it "We should..." so you're not calling anyone out specifically. Like "We should remember aim the AOE at the adds." in TamTara Hard. I will also usually ask if everyone knows/remembers the mechanics when the group is made up of sprouts or returners, since they might not have seen that dungeon in years. And your point about not explaining the entire fight I agree with 100%. If someone asks I will usually just point out the single hardest/least obvious/party wiping mechanic and leave the rest for them to figure out. :)

[@Slayerlord13]

From what I've seen sprouts making mistakes are usually more receptive to advice than more entrenched players still making those mistakes. Explaining what to do instead of Cure 1 to the sprout in, say, Heavensward is a fairly realistic proposition but good luck convincing the healer with 100 in every healer job to stop spamming Physick in an expert dungeon.

[@CaetsuChaijiCh]

Indeed! Precisely! This circles back to the idea that the relatively new player is still relatively new. If they identify themselves as still new, they would also be more likely to listen, since you probably have a lot more experience anyway. The much higher level player has a separate problem to tangle with: if you're right and they've been doing this wrong all this time, then they've been playing the game wrong for a loooong time. And their brain won't accept that they are *that* wrong, so they will find a reason they are in the right instead of looking to improve! 😰 This is also something that happens a lot in real life. You get entrenched in your ways, and it can be hard to shake a bad habit! 😅

[@Gloriankithsanus]

@@CaetsuChaijiCh Unless you have a clear and easy way to prove that they're wrong, don't even bother. You probably won't encounter that person twice anyway, so no reason to get heated up over it.

[@armorparade]

good video, i agree that people don't understand that you have to be chill when talking about this stuff. that said i wish there weren't so many players in this game with this "permanent victim" mindset where anyone with anything to say to them is a bully waiting to skin them alive. sometimes even when i'm very patient, non-accusatory, and even praising what they're doing right- they still assume bad faith when i ask them why they're not using Arm's Length, or remind them they can use Lucid Dreaming, or the hardest thing to ever do in this game: telling a dps they have done anything wrong in any context people want to feel competent but they also don't want to be bothered and don't understand that they're playing a multiplayer game. we have to put up with their selfish behavior because they don't owe anyone anything but everyone has to respect them all the same. the healer that just hits buttons and doesn't consider how any of it affects the team is almost as bad in my eyes as the tank that tries to solo a boss down from 70% because runs take just as long for it

[@CaetsuChaijiCh]

It is difficult, because I imagine part of the reason why people can get so defensive so fast may be a result of how often advice is not given in a chill way, so their experience with receiving advice is needing to get ready to defend themselves. If that is the case anyway, that is also quite concerning 😰 I'm also not the biggest fan of the tank soloing from 70% or whatnot and typically ask before doing it if I'm the last man standing as a tank 😂

[@Gloriankithsanus]

Putting " :D " behind everything makes it easier to digest. Why don't you use arms length? :D Did you know lucid dreaming fills your mana bar? YOu unlock it at lv 10 :D Wtf are you doing? :D Damaging enemies kills enemies faster and makes us require less heals in return :D bro just wall it, it's faster when we do it together :D

[@iantaakalla8180]

You know, it’s really funny that given the fact that Smile is the song for Dawntrail, the FF14 community reflects the state of Ethyris: in at least 14 different pieces that technically echo each other in that they are the same world.

[@Yoshinator]

Unfortunately, a lot of people thrive off being a victim. It's not just a FF thing just a lot of terminally online bozos can't help but use victimization as a shield.

[@victorhf9804]

Ok, but this "victim mentallity" is something you end up getting by playing online, it's a hard skin you end up developing over time. Nobody remembers the good times they had playing, they always remember that 1 time an asshole flamed them in Dota 2.

[@BP-bq9uz]

i’ve noticed lately in particular (in my server anyways) that people have been getting Really bold over very minute inconsequential things. once someone using a plugin i forget the name of that shows party raid cooldowns harassed the hell out of our healer for not using lucid dreaming on cooldown which is…. just insane, frankly. wish more people would just be Normal about giving advice*

[@17Master]

I wait until they die multiple times nowadays. After someone eats the floor more than once, odds are they'll be open to help for not eating it again. Now I just need a way to gently tell tanks that my Doton is there to hurt the pack monsters, not them.

[@kylebruce4937]

i was playing paladin in a low level dungeon once and i did see thatthe conjurer were overcautious about my health and before the boss i said in chat "thank your bud and just a tip about pulls its ok to let my health drop your spells heal allot try letting my health drop to half before healing it helps you have more time to damadge and saves your mp if i die its ok we live and learn" though they didnt say anything back they did start to let my health drop in the rest of the dungeon and used stone more i had never felt more happy as i was a fresh healer when i first played this wonderfull game

[@Shak562]

I tried to give advice to a scholar when I was in the 51 dungeon (1st boss) as reaper who wasnt healing themselves after the stun/charge mechanic and dying from the following mechanic which caused 3 wipes. I suggested after checking if he was open to some advice to use aetherflow and lustrate as his 1st goto heals if the fairy couldnt keep up with the damage instead of going for adlo (i had noticed he hadnt had any aetherflow stacks on the packs leading to the boss as well). He acknowledged my advice and while we did get through the rest of the dungeon eventually I don't think he used aetherflow till the packs to the final boss which I was like meh I tried

[@velvetomen]

I just earned my mentor status and unlocked mentor roulette, so seeing this video before stepping into that role was really helpful and insightful.

[@RagnarokiaNG]

For boss mechanics usually I find just giving small bites of the important stuff to avoid death / wipe before starting the fight in dungeon or before it comes in trial works well and doesnt overload anyone, and of course can always ask if people want a mark to follow if the fight is hard. I used to range from explaining lots to very little but found a sweet spot of a line or two is enough for most situations, its more about making the few words count to be read and understood easily than overcomplicating anything.

[@Jilhel]

Please give me advice ! I am paying your sub!

[@CaetsuChaijiCh]

Hahaha! 😂 I wonder what the "you don't pay my sub" players would do if you actually asked where to send the money 🤣

[@probablydeadoof19]

just the other day i was playing one of my first extremes ever, and after one of a couple wipes my other healer decided to ask me 'so im just healing alone then?' and honestly i was baffled because they hadnt said anything else at that point in the whole duty, if theyd just asked me nicely to heal more i wouldve done so way sooner. hopefully they see this video some day haha

[@duncanmacleod6274]

Well obviously this is the correct way to help your party improve. Step 1: Be an asshole out of nowhere Step 2: ???? Step 3: Profit

[@purplefreedom1631]

If they're a WHM then basically yes... SGE mits and WHM uses their free lilies to heal. You don't need everyone topped off right away in most cases so it can be ok to wait for the next lily or assize to be up (or earthly star for AST)

[@probablydeadoof19]

@@purplefreedom1631 i was SCH and funnily enough yeah they were WHM

[@purplefreedom1631]

@@probablydeadoof19 LOL so long as you tossing a few sacred soils and using your free stuff then no need for extra, let the regens do their work. Sounds like the WHM was trying to keep people topped off instead of actually healing, you only need to heal like that for ultimates

[@generalsweet8212]

One thing I like to do is the age-old technique of criticism sandwiches. Ask if they want advice, and then compliment them on something they’re doing right before telling them what you want them to know. Finish by complimenting or affirming them again, so that way even more harsh advice hits a bit softer. For example, if someone is using Cure I for supposed freecure benefits, I would start by telling them something along the lines of; “I like where your head’s at, but fishing for freecure often ends up wasting more mana and time healing than doing what you’re really best at. That being smashing skulls with that stick of yours.” Generally this works pretty well for me, if they want the advice.

[@conkerzone]

Nono the right way to start giving people advice is saying, "I know i don't pay your sub, but.."

[@SJPaladinHawk]

"I use three openers" - I see what you did there. Speaking the language of the people.

[@SJPaladinHawk]

Please release basic social skill rotations for all jobs.

[@CmdrJay72]

If something major happens due to a boss mechanic, I'll start with, "Man that sucks. Do we need to ?" That way, those that know can affirm and those that don't can learn. And I ALWAYS look to see who is viewing a cutscene at the beginning of a dungeon or raid. It's a great insight if someone hasn't done it before.

[@rinseiza]

I feel like giving people who incorrectly try to teach sprouts mechanics an annoying voice was a poor choice for the video. Part of the whole point it is to swallow pride, and not make fun of people youre trying to teach, so it could be taken in a way that you are simply insulting them in turn. Still an amazing video that describes my thoughts on this topic super well. I wanna add that since people like this exist, me or my friends being nice about mistakes - or at the very least, not rude about it - is seen as the same thing other do, just rude. So it just ends up being more reason for both parties to be mad at each other

[@CaetsuChaijiCh]

That is actually a lesson of its own that I point out at 1:05 to demonstrate exactly how it feels for those potential people I am trying to teach 😊 I get that it is sort of backwards to do that, but using this exact demonstration to showcase how it feels when you're made fun of for what you think is right might help some players to realize the problem in a practical way! 🤔😊

[@drbretzelburg2646]

What I do after explaining a mechanic or such (being nice about it) and I see they use ability X or do the mechanic right. I point it out in Chat "You did it" or "Nice, we/you got it" To put it simple, we learn and remember things way easier with positive reinforcement. I started playing bout 1.5 years ago and I still remember interactions with nice folk in ARR Dungeons teaching me things and patting me on the head afterwards for doing great.

[@redmaster4446]

for me personally, if i notice someone doing something in like a dungeon or such i wait until the end of the dungeon because while scuffed some mistake you can still clear it and then after the final boss is dead i'll ask if they want a tip. i feel doing at the end of the dungeon has a better response or at least more willing to listen. i look at it the same way with when i watch streamers, giving it advice to a streamer before they do something is just backseating and kinda annoying where as doing it afterwards with their permission is usually a "oh my god i didn't think about that" kinda thing

[@CaetsuChaijiCh]

That is true. Sometimes if it isn't crucial I might just ask if I can give them advice at the end of the dungeon. The logic being if they don't know to wait, they'll leave before you get to say anything. Part of the reason why I usually only approach about advice if something is really bad is also exactly because stopping in the middle can be awkward for the group, but also because maybe they will figure it out themselves if you just give them a chance! 😊

[@doki_dokii]

I've found the way to get people most receptive to listen to my advice is to just be nice about it. "Hey tank if you aoe you actually get agro on all the mobs you hit! Its great for big pulls :)" "Hey WHM if you use holy we get a stun on the enemies and its super helpful as well as does damage ^^" "NIN doton is great on aoe but you can do more damage with your single target abilities!" Etc. If you frame it as an additional thing to do rather than a "you MUST DO THIS OR YOU SUCK" people are at least willing to try it. Healers especially can have a bit of a hard time breaking bad healing habits because (especially if you're like me and came from other games) healbotting FEELS safe and impactful. You'd get yelled at if you werent healing enough in other games Ive played so trying to break that mindset can be very hard. (Sorry if this doesn't make sense. I'm very tired trying to write on mobile)

[@icarusgames2393]

As a super new player to FF14 i usually lead with "new to this dungeon or raid" and sometimes i even say "any tips for XYZ" to invite tips. But i also watch a ton of Caetsu so i know traps and rotations and the like. Still improving but I find for the most the community I've dealt with has been quite polite even when we wipe or are in an annoying dungeon. That being said. in one dungeon I used cure 1 on accident 1 time and my tank said hey JSYK cure 1 is a trap. lol. Great video BTW

[@GameGod77]

I have a macro to instantly put in chat "First time running this, would appreciate advice." A fair amount of times it's been ignored, presumably because the dungeon or trial is straightforward, but there is a handful of times people have stopped to explain bosses with tricky mechanics, which shows the macro is prompting people to think about the harder mechanics that caught them out the first time round.

[@lucalopez9604]

My biggest struggle when giving advice is how to do it in a timely matter. I feel its very challenging to hit the sweet spot between not coming off wrong, being suficiently informative, and not writting a wall of text they wont want to read. I feel thats a big part why memetic phrases like "dont use cure 1" are so common, thats so much faster and easier to type than all the reasons to not use it, as shown by the website. that website is very detailed and well written but I cannot possibly type the same while in the middle of a pack without making the dungeon take 30 years longer than it already is taking.

[@TheKarishi]

It's rare that I have the spare brain cells to watch allies' behavior closely, but I do like the phrasing of "Fire 4 does crazy single-target damage!" or "You can throw healer Abilities in between spells for free healing!" or "Your AoE multiplies damage by number of targets. It adds up FAST." My personal angle is that I don't complain in-game. At all. If I want to offer advice I do it like this, as if I'm sharing Pro Gamer Strats(tm) to help them blow up enemies like they're an angry Y'shtola.

[@Minotaur10]

What I like to occasionally do to avoid upsetting people (mainly in larger group content), is, if someone is struggling with a mechanic. I'll ask for someone else to explain it to me so that they can read it without feeling like the dumb one.

[@CaetsuChaijiCh]

That is an amazingly good trick! Thank you for that!

[@raarasunai4896]

Ironic this video comes out after someone commented angrily on my comment on the last mentor video. They got auto-deleted, but it was kind of funny.

[@CaetsuChaijiCh]

That is pretty funny 😅

[@paragonyoshi4237]

Honestly, all I take from this is: "Don't be a self-righteous pr1ck. And don't use you being right as an excuse for that." Seriously, do people lack self awareness that much, that they don't see the obvious problem in those lines?

[@CaetsuChaijiCh]

Yes, many do. 😰 In fact, a lot of the "you can't give advice to anyone you'll get reported" originate from players that go way beyond what is okay. In fact, I had one outright admit that what they claimed was advice, ACTUALLY was them saying something to the effect of "you should uninstall, still using cure 1 at level xxx". Like it doesn't matter what the context is, the reality is that can't actually see that what they said was clearly not okay 😅 But you pretty much hit the nail on the head. Just be nice and considerate really

[@cyphi474]

Its true you need to be mindful what way you present your help, but at the same time....if you are new to the game and someone is trying give you advice, you should at least listen to them and not be hostille just because someone dares criticize you. That attitude wont get you far in mmos...

[@MrMayoyama]

"Why are(n't) you" can still come off as pretty accusational and often puts their back up instantly (defensive mode). I noticed x, have you tried y? Sometimes works better

[@SREDISKRAD]

as a lvl 100 Savage Raider White Mage: At lvl 35 you get regen which has more healing output than cure 2, is as cheap as cure 1 and will let you do more damage casts - aoe pulls don't instakill your tank, let the regens work :) On a more serious note, I don't: Tell dps what to do in normal content Tell healers what to do if nobody is dying Tell tanks what to do (unless I'm a healer in which I feel like I can ask for slightly more mitigation if the tank is literally running on TBN and a prayer) It is not my place to tell people in normalised content what they can be doing to improve, UNLESS! I am asked for help. If the group is asked a quesiton by a player, I will do my best to answer it, along with other tips and hints I can think of - but only because it's been requested. As I know of myself, and as others have found out with "you can't give advice or you're reported," There is a significant difference between solicited, and unsolicited advice. I don't care how good your advice is, if I didn't ask, I'm not listening.

[@WildWilly-nw9qf]

I just got out of Tower of Zot. The tank was decent but wasn’t using enough damage mitigation on big pulls. Since I play protective (make sure there are 2 HoT’s active) before I start spamming holy, he survived. But I knew he wouldn’t survive the last big mob pull. I tried my best to keep him alive but of course he died. After the wipe I explained it would help the healer to use some form of damage mitigation on big groups. Even arm’s length is a big help. We tried again on the same group, and it went much better.

[@Jerao]

The comment section is wild. Its kind of insane how many responses boil down to "if I don't act like an asshole, this random person will definitely make my game session worse and that is just the worst possible outcome."

[@sophieirisviel4100]

honestly the way that’s worked the most for me (mostly in low level stuff like msq roulette) is where i’ll encounter, for example, a cure1 nothing else white mage. instead of saying the thing they’re doing is wrong, i just tell them what’s the right thing (saying something to the effect of “consider using on groups of enemies, It’ll stun the enemies and make your job easier, and also damage them so they die quicker”, or “try and use if you’re not doing anything else, since it helps complete the activity faster”

[@sophieirisviel4100]

In addition, if i see a sprout die to a mechanic, just explain the mechanic (sprout dies to the proximity circles in castrum meridandum, just be like “those flashing circles do more damage the closer you are, try and back up a bit next time!”)

[@anjoumaaka]

I believe in leading by example as the "no words, just skill" type of player. Anyone with the talent and ability to adapt will pick up on what you did and put it into practice for themselves.

[@purplefreedom1631]

Sprint from the start and lightspeed when you're in range, if the tank can't keep up then "you gonna learn today" / "TRIAL BY FIRE!"

[@jakewerling64]

Relatively new to the game (and mmo's) with only about 150 hrs in but ive been lucky to have everybody be pretty patient and helpful, especially when i became the stereotypical "dps player picks up DRK as their first tank bc of the aesthetics" 😅

[@CaetsuChaijiCh]

That is great to hear! Also good that you didn't get too many bad guys while you were learning that bit! 😅

[@cataposs]

drk's story also fucking slaps, it'll be great

[@kitsunehanyou09]

This reminds me of when I was relatively new during ARR and i got into an argument with a scholar who had summoned their fairie and then turned on cleric stance. I thought i was in the right then that their healing ability would be reduced and it would negatively impact their fairy's healing. It doesn't matter now if i was right or wrong, i just use it as a personal reminder to be polite first, and if they aren't or are clearly not listening, then i drop the subject and move along. A 30m penalty for leaving isn't as long when I've got enough stuff to do.

[@FattyMcFox]

" Start paying my sub or shut it." Is the phrase i would use when people got on my case for playing summoner. Then summoner got updated and i was called a Bandwagoner for staying a summoner main. Luckily this seems to be rare most of the time.

[@victorhf9804]

I think the best approach is just to be direct. For example, i usually say "we need to do x and y here" when someone is messing up the mechanic. When is a player playing bad his class i just say something like ", ". Usually works for me. Be short, don't give a lecture, and don't spam the chat.

[@steveh1474]

in a level 60 dungeon the other day, i had died to a big pull, and the healer apologized and felt so bad! "nah dont worry about it! that group in particular is extra spicy, and im the only one who died. you did great!" could they have kept me alive? i dont think so, the bees got me with final sting :C but thats okay! it was a fantastic moment to show that, as a mentor with everything maxed, im not perfect. we got to the first boss and it took a good while to die. why? oh i see. theres no DOTs on the boss. not a single one, not from the healer or the samurais. "hey samurais, can i give you a tip?" "sure" "please do" they actually listened and used Higanbana on the next bosses, and i pointed out how much faster the bosses died. should i have said something to the healer? idk. criticize everyone and maybe nobody listens, right? would the samurais have listened now if i had just kept quiet about my death earlier? idk. what if i didnt die at all? who knows. you dont have to help everyone, but if you just try to help anyone, youre on the right track.

[@pain-ter4651]

One thing I do on healer (could probably find some other ways to incorporate this) when a tank isn't mitting or using AoE to keep aggro, is I phrase it as "can you please do x, it would really help me" or something along those lines. Probably much easier for them to feel like theyre helping you rather than you helping them.

[@invenblocker]

The problem with just letting them fail is that I'm bad at allowing just that to happen. If that tank isn't using mitigations, and my advice to do so doesn't register, well I'm not about to let them drop, so that means rolling my face across every healing button on my keyboard and falling back to spam GCD heals, which means they still survive and thus in their mind, everything went well, therefore they did it right.

[@jonamar3965]

This video will singlehandedly save my static

[@scribbledoll4382]

the cure 1 website sounds like a good idea but im giggling at the thought of someone stopping the dungeon to go to the site and read it through XD ive had people be rude to me when they were giving me advice (and one instance of someone calling another dps a "dumbass" over using lb "wrong"), and it made me anxious about playing roulettes again. but ive also had people be very supportive and wonderful too! i hear a lot of talk about how ffxiv players cant take critique but that hasnt been my experience. i have given pointers to other new players (doesnt happen very often since im also new lol) and they have been super kind and open to advice!

[@Alice-fw4cu]

This is a really good video! Really touches on how to fix the problems of advice-giving in FFXIV. I will say that if you don't receive a response, it's often better to just not say anything in response to the no response, as the person may already be embarrassed they're being offered advice and become even more defensive to future advice when you draw attention to their lack of response. There is one thing I noticed that I wonder why you do - usually streamers and youtubers for videos like this use the in-game options to show player initials instead of full names, as people who turn up in streams and videos without anonymity features can become targets of harassment even if they haven't done anything wrong. Is it an aspect of streaming etiquette you just weren't aware of, or is there some other reason?

[@CaetsuChaijiCh]

To your first thing, I agree and also recommend simply moving on not saying anything if the other person doesn't respond. To your other thing, in my experience, people feel muuuch more comfortable being cruel to anonymous initials, because it almost outright dehumanizes the person. On the other hand, the names being there causes people to be a bit more careful because that is clearly a player, in fact often people seem more likely to jump to the defense of these other players (like you are a bit in this case). Additionally, a player that turns out to repeatedly do bad stuff in the game become notorious and people recognize the character on their behavior alone, or the combo of their initials and race and outfit. Many times have I seen recognize someone from their choice of words alone in a chat screenshot despite all names being blanked out. As such, I also feel using initials for this kind of "induced anonymity" leads to a false sense of security. If someone is harassed for any reason in game, the report system is there, and simply the existence of this system tends to work as a deterrent for the vast majority of the kinds of crazy people that would harass strangers over a video game 😅 A final detail is that I also find it more respectful to speak to people with their names which is very difficult if everything you can see are initials. I hope this makes sense 😊

[@StoneyNegroni]

When leveling Black Mage, i was a Fire 3 spammer. My thought process was, Fire, Fira, Firaga like most other final fantasy games so i thought fire 3 was the best one to use. Somebody told me why it was bad, and i was happy somebody told me at all. I looked dumb for 1 duty, but i could have looked dumb for like 20 duties!!! Thank you random stranger! :D Advice is great if you take it like a champ and just have an open mind

[@Apollad2]

Personally, i've only ever had success with teaching people things (particularly Ninjas with Single Target Doton) is during the particularly long cutscenes in MSQ roulette, because 99.99999% of regular dungeon runs, because you have 2 bystanders that can get frustrated with suddenly stalling so you can initiate a discussion, no matter how much you try to make it friendly and helpful.

[@Mesarthim]

It doesn't matter how you phrase it. Someone, somewhere, will get pissed off and rage at you for having said something at all.

[@lukacofi]

I agree with this. You can be as kind and soft as you can, ask for their consent in learning and do your best to word it in the most friendly way - there will be a person somewhere out there who will see it as an insult that their perfect play isn't perfect to someone else.

[@Diddz]

i had one raid where the cohealer only cure 1'd so i let them solo heal the heal check to show how quickly the damage outpaced their cure1 without saying anything. suddenly like magic, they started using other heal actions

[@ttabood7462]

You catch more flies with honey than with vinegar. 🙃

[@CaetsuChaijiCh]

Exactly! 😁😂

[@17Master]

You catch even more flies with manure.

[@arthurdowney2846]

I had someone tell me to "learn how to play [my] class correctly." That was the best day in my FFXIV journey because I took their advice and the game felt better after. While I would not recommend that wording, I'm really grateful that they said something.

[@xvxvcaspervxvx]

I usually see the opposite issue with fresh install WHM's. Like 90% of their time in a dungeon is focused entirely on topping up the tank and refusing to use Aero and Stone; as if these abilities aren't even on their hotbar!

[@LarkyLuna]

I feel like I've gotten more players that don't know what they are doing lately Maybe it's because we're not too far into an expansion that might have drawn newer people, but I had to report and kick a tank that went ballistic over "could you plase use your mitigations? I'm running out of resources" Oh well, usually it never gets that bad, most of my bad experiences is just people ignoring chat

[@bipolarprobe]

I personally find the phrasing "is there a reason you're doing X instead of Y?" To be a safer bet than "why are you (not) doing X?" Why often gets people defensive, but the wording I use I feel gives someone an opportunity to say "no I'm just not sure what to do there." Or "yes and my reason is X, Y, and Z" and then you can present the reasons why they might want to change

[@toomuchdino]

I usually try to put their actions into perspective and show them how their doing wrong is affecting the others. I would say "hey make sure to be spamming Cure 2 because I can see you are struggling to keep me alive" or "I am having trouble healing you up, have you been making sure to stagger your cooldowns?" and if I end up being wrong and just have seen wrong then I simply apologize and let them know I myself will try harder. It can work for DPS rotations as well, stuff like using buffs and the boss taking a while to die, DPS not using AOE on mobs and the pull taking ages (I am running out of cooldowns because this is taking a while), I think making players who underperform aware of the failure states helps a lot in teaching them things

[@vigo2669]

To be honest I usually don't pay attention to what other party members are doing unless we're dying a lot or things are taking longer than usual to kill.

[@Sethzenjion]

I always do a responsiveness check before giving any advice. If I notice a problem I'll just say the person's name and nothing else. If I get a response I know they're at least open to communication. If I get nothing I keep my mouth shut and continue on.

[@arlovskaya]

i was very much a cure 1 spammer when i started playing, until i got to hw and during one of i think sohm al's w2ws my tank died and started off precisely by asking if i wanted advice before explaining why c1 is bad. ever since then this is pretty much the only way i hand out advice in dungeons, bc it saves everyone's time and energy if the other person doesn't want it lol

[@onetruealice2198]

I remember when I first started playing and wanted to try tanking. It was near the end of running through HW and I picked up DRK. Ran guildhests and ARR content to learn and had no idea what I was doing. No idea what tank stance was. The first group I was in I let them know I was new to tank and STILL got told off for not doing "basic tank things" despite no idea what I was doing and them not giving any kind of info on what to actually do. Drove me away from tanking for a while until I got to ShB and got back into DRK after watching a few guides so I didn't get into that again. Not a great into to it so I've always tried to be constructive in my help with players instead of just yelling "STANCE" or "HEALS PLEASE" at people. Especially in content before EW

[@jelato7]

Also interesting to think about how non-optimal performance can be seen by some as a moral failing on the player's behalf, to the extent that we're now having this discussion on how most optimally we can fix the inadequate way that some people play the game. This isn't new by any means, it's even more prevalent in other MMOs like WoW due to various factors like the game's age and ubiquitousness of add-ons, but it's a trend I'm not a fan of as it can place shame on disabled players and creates an environment of exclusivity rather than inclusivity.

[@Gloriankithsanus]

I had someone come into P8S unsync prog group today, telling everyone that they should have cleared phase 1 by pull 4, and casuals should respect the content and that it was clear no one watched a guide, since people weren't doing it perfectly within 4 pulls. I asked that person 4 times what this obnoxious "respect the content" mindset is doing in a casual prog group, why that person insists on on the people fucking up wasting everyone's time when no one complained, and why that person was in this group to begin with. Never got an explanation. So I assumed they just wanted to shit on newbs and gatekeep content for no specific reason other than being an asshat, so vic black got promptly put on my vic black list.

[@TheGreatDanish]

Anyone who legitimately says its too risky to give advice in ff14 has a 50/50 shot of being a prick who gets reported or is the kind of guy who took the "me too" movement personally. It never happens if youre just polite and kind about it. (Or let them eat shit and then explain how to avoid eating shit.)

[@GodEater015]

I’ve literally had leveling tanks go nuclear on me for saying “could you use mit please?” Some players are not worth the hassle to offer advice.

[@Gloriankithsanus]

@@GodEater015 Try asking people if they have more mitigation which they could use. "I believe you still have xy left" as a follow up response. Some of those people just really don't know how to do shit, and "could you please" sounds very annoyed.

[@TheGreatDanish]

@GodEater015 I gotta ask: is that what you usually say? Because it comes off rude. Like it sounds exasperated, with a little eye roll on it.

[@GodEater015]

@ to be honest, I honestly don’t say anything until a wipe due to no tank mit in leveling dungeons when I’m healing. Trust me. It has plenty of ways for me to rephrase it to come off as rude. For example, “ Could you please use mit?” “Are you allergic to mit cooldowns ?”” TANK, use your mitigation!”, etc, etc. If saying it the way I did in my previous comment is considered “rude” then those players are very thin skinned to the point of being transparent.