Why ISTJs Commonly Mistype as INTJ with Practical Typing Ryan, Samuel, Mark & Nayeli

[@JoyceMeng22]

Here are the timestamps! 13:40 INTJ 30:20 Fe aux (INFJ & ISFJ) 50:30 ESTJ 1:08:05 Fi dom (INFP & ISFP) 1:23:00 ISTP

[@syedmazharhasan6803]

Great video Joyce. It is actually a very common problem. As an INTJ myself, my ENTJ brother and I had a very hard time typing our ISTJ dad, because we always thought that he was INTJ. The most simple difference, I think, is that INTJs have foresight. If you don't have the ability to see the near future, then you are perhaps not an INTJ. Moreover, does this ability come from imagination or experience? Our ISTJ dad can predict simple things too, but he is quite old, and he predicts them due to experience, rather than an imagined future. Therefore, we think that he is ISTJ. PS: Another great video Joyce! You are again rocking that black top 😀

[@kairostimeYT]

Exactly! As ISTJs gain more experience, they basically remove any uncertainties which troubled them and when INTJs have their plan well-executed, they remove any unnecessary energy spikes. But it also depends on the context. I come from India and here, not making a plan is the best plan. Too many variables; if I plan too ahead without putting my whole life into that thing I am doing, I have no chance of succeeding. Population issues really; since there are too many people, good becomes okay and the best becomes good. Nobody is to be blamed.

[@syedmazharhasan6803]

@@kairostimeYT I am from Pakistan too. I understand the variables. But some things can't be helped.

[@kairostimeYT]

@@syedmazharhasan6803 Yea exactly. It's kind of good that my parents aren't/weren't adding that much to my stress by engaging in JEE or NEET or other garbage entrance exams. I used to rant a lot but nowadays, I have been into meditation, calming myself off and then forgetting. After all, we all think better when we stop feeling like our initial state is garbage.

[@syedmazharhasan6803]

@@kairostimeYT I agree. Meditating helps a lot, specially in releasing the stress. I am curious btw, what is your mbti type? I am INTJ, as I stated in my original comment.

[@kairostimeYT]

@@syedmazharhasan6803 Same. I am also an INTJ. Just someone who doesn't plan too ahead. (Actually I did last year and covid ruined it completely but since then, nope) Edit: A lot of people think that I am an INTP but then I don't think so. Yes, I like learning new things; Yes, I do internalize; But then I don't think that I have Ne.

[@marekczesc1982]

Wow ISTJs go on, and on, and on.... My father is an ISTJ, I should have already known this. -INTJ

[@kellikakes81]

Yes! On and on and on. And don't DARE interrupt! (No back and forth convos. Only they get to talk/ teach). I can go on and on, as an ENFP, but more in a fun dialogue manner (or if I'm unnecessarily stuck on over explaining something for clarity purposes).

[@kairostimeYT]

Another point: ISTJs and INTJs both gather details. INTJs and INFJs don't normally know where a pattern comes but that doesn't mean that they emerge from nothing. They emerge from random details with a key detail collaged into a pattern. Both ISTJ and INTJ are future oriented. It's just that INTJs pre-process the raw data where ISTJs post-process more. Depending on the context of the situation, both have upsides and downsides. In my opinion, instead of gluing to a personality type and adapt stereotypes within us, we should rather consider fixing them. It won't hurt INTJs to know where the patterns come from, know different possible futures, etc. It won't hurt ISTJs to simply move on with something without knowing everything in an extremely detailed way.

[@LilacSnowBun]

Great video! 🌷This helped me confirm I am not ISTJ.

[@RainbowRoadCrashTest]

Ive seen plenty of ESTJs mistype as INTJs as well. As a matter of fact, Id argue that they embody that mastermind archetype way better than INTJs due to the nature of TeNe. Ne just makes their external mechanistic world much more plethoric and synergestic. Many are great at multi-tasking and macromanaging. Many are good at considering all the components and balance them out along side each other (Si-Ne). Sure they think practically. But its a bad idea, to look at the auxilliary and say they are not creative. High magnitude TeNe types are very creative and imaginative that I'd argue.

[@DeezyRYG]

What Ryan says around 32:55 is sooooo true. Lol I really rarely push someone to "do something." Or assert that I mean. I think that it is better for me to present the logic of why I think a decision may be suggested and then leave it in the other person's hand to make that decision on their own. But i totally see also why Te is necessary for certain scenarios.

[@Mr3kiwis]

The idea of being so routine oriented, grounded, and thinking that minute details matter when sharing a story are so foreign to me that it really does confirm that I'm an INTJ. I definitely have subconscious goals and plans for the day which, if they're interrupted, I will feel very thrown off by but have no set routines as such. If I'm thinking of the future or discussing interesting concepts with someone, I completely zone out the tangible world. My toddler could be climbing on the table or picking up a box of matches and I would have no idea. And it definitely wouldn't occur to me to share street names when relating a story! An incident is experienced as an underlying meaning; that's what interests me and that's what I share. Glad to have this clarity :)

[@MoPoppins]

“Joyce, I view you as a long-term resource.” ✨🏆✨ As a very selective “collector” of people (and Te user), I like to curate & optimize the people I have in my life, and because I have NO issues completely PURGING people out if they’re not of a high-enough quality (of character), to be told that is DEFINITELY one of the highest compliments you can be paid. I assume that the Te user you were referring to was also willing to reciprocate being a fellow “long-term resource.” 😆 “I value/appreciate your skills & work ethic.” = “I love/appreciate you.” 💕 = “YOU MADE THE CUT.”

[@JoyceMeng22]

That makes so much more sense!! Thank you for explaining that, @Mo Poppins.

[@artisanrox]

The whole Fe discussion was adorable :)

[@grumpyschnauzer]

When Samuel was describing how people associate intuition with complexity but looking at it as “levels” of complexity seemed how an Si person would differentiate. Si can be heavy on the info. As an INTJ, I will throw out all encompassing albeit brief concepts at people that seek my advice and when they ask me to clarify the steps I respond, “I just did. You’ll have to fill in the rest.” 😆 Ryan mentioned “grounded”... to which I will strive to stay or get “more” grounded... I’m chasing the carrot with that one.

[@leogrrrl5876]

Thanks for this! Really enjoyed it. So do you think that for some ISTJs you might not see their Te projected out into the world but just being used for themselves & their own accomplishments? I know someone who I'm pretty sure is an ISTJ, but I don't see the potential Management qualities of Te, or verbal bluntness, etc. In fact, he can be pretty quiet. So for anyone reading this- What do you thoughts? I've considered different types, but they don't seem quite right. (Edited to say: I have family members with Te, but it's way more noticeable in them).

[@enfieldjohn101]

The Enneagram idea is pretty interesting. I've recently started comparing it to mbti and it makes a bit more sense to me. I consistantly test as INTJ and have ever since I first took it in school. I now am testing as a 5 wing 6 on the ennegram therory. I question both systems, for that matter, I am curious and skeptical about everything really. I've examined all of the descriptions of types and sub types, and INTJ with sensory sub-type and 5 wing 6 are the only ones that seem to fit. I've asked my wife and read the descriptions to her, then asked her which one she saw in me without saying that any type was better than another, and she said I was more like the INTJ, but perhaps a bit more interested in details, art and trivia than the descriptions say INTJs are. But, I struggle to live in the moment and live in my mind and the future most of the time. I only focus on the past and can remember fine details on rare occaisions. When I'm not daydreaming, and am in the moment, I become hyper aware of details, smells, textures, patterns, colors etc. What I notice most is what seems out of place, or 'wrong' somehow. I'm some one who gets asked to figure out why things don't work, or asked "Would you look this over and evaluate it for me?" I then give them a long list of what I noticed that they didn't. If I'm not needing to analyse things, I'm daydreaming. I'm never bored as I can entertain myself.

[@mike7659]

Ryan’s explanation is pretty accurate now I can I see why I’m not an ISTP. Got ISTP for the first time last year when my college professor told my class to take it and ISTJ this year

[@rckindkitty]

Great episode, some really nice distinctions between Te and Ti.

[@HighFiveFriend]

👏 Whenever I see “Premiere” behind your name in my notifications I get excited!! Thank you!

[@JoyceMeng22]

💕 :) That's super flattering. You are such a sweetheart, @High Five Friend!

[@aprilhelm518]

This is interesting. I kind of want to add my two cents because I'm a female ISTJ (at least I personally believe so) who first got typed as a teen by a free online test as INF(?) (can't remember, but I think it was INFJ) and then later upon reading type descriptions in search of my definite type almost immediately felt that I resonated extremely well with the INFP type description (but not with the ISTJ description, which imo was first probably a bit biased to describe not only male ISTJ's mostly or only but imo also just seemed specific as though the writer was describing a specific person's manifestation of ISTJ rather than things that could always apply very broadly and accurately to every ISTJ). The test I took was on a website called Personality Cafe. For me, it was fun, but upon reflection, I think my mind just automatically started to pull me out of my NF fun time and back into ST practicality and realness (just to save me from having to get rudely woken up later, mainly, I think, since I found it fun and all). I started critically analyzing the test and how I felt that it might have been constructed in a way that might have been biased to type people as NF. At least, that was my personal assement based on the difference I observed between how the test instructed the test-taker to answer all the questions versus what was probably my natural (if unhindered) approach to do so myself. For instance, the instructions would say something along the lines of to answer the first thing that "feels" the most relatable, or something like that. And questions would then ask things like: "Do you make decisions more based on your gut instinct/emotions or more on reason?" Well, they just instructed us to act very quickly based on our gut as if reason didn't exist. When I got into type descriptions, I greatly resonated with INFP. But what stopped me was that a very strong, non-specific impression that my younger sister is definitely INFP (somehow 😅💧💧💧) came into my mind and basically forced me to throw that whole attachment that I felt to that type right out the window. Because I thought, if anything, she is an F type, and if she's Fi-domate (which I was basically certain of at that point), then I (just realistically) most certainly could not be. I do wonder if there's a (likely) greater bias in women to type as F when they are T as opposed to say mistyping as INTJ, since personally I think it was the only type I immediately wrote off as too smart. 😀💧 Euhhh... But anyway. I eventually typed myself with a certain amount of confidence (albeit cautiously) by studying (joyously) the individual cognitive functions, the stacks and patterns and categories of types, and trying to create a graph or a map in my mind with plot points from people I knew in reality as examples in order to help me assess the actual scales and such and comparing myself both to those people (based largely on our interactions that I remember because that helps me see both clear similarities and differences in mental assumptions and predispositions and whatnot) and to the functions each individually and together in order to try and and figure out what my type most likely is. Took a bit of time, study and examples for me personally, which I thought is maybe because I'm ST... And honestly I saw MBTI as more time-wasting yet addicting fun, but somehow now I feel like it often can help my viewpoint by helping me to see how I myself and others are relate, exist, and function together, I guess. And I think it gave me a lot of tools to better understand people I know and how to better appreciate and get along with some people. 😳💧 Don't know exactly, but nowadays I see MBTI as more accurate and useful than I did at first, and I appreciate it.

[@Apoptosis89]

Does anybody else feel like they relate to essentially ALL cognitive functions (even totally opposite ones) at different times? Both Ti and Te resonate with me in a big way depending on context. even Fe and Fi can make sense to me at different times.

[@xaisthoj]

Giving the answer and expecting others to put the effort into thinking out how one would get to that answer is very intj. Especially if giving an answer in the comments section.

[@dulles1969]

Hi Joyce, this is informative, excellent, fascinating. It would be fantastic to see more such panels of how people mistyped and then the process through which they came to know their actual type.

[@arcadianfox8127]

Wait... are you saying that telling people they're a good resource is NOT a warm compliment...? Damnit.. back to the drawing board.

[@my2cents49]

I can't help but notice how quiet Mark was. That would be me, too interested in hearing the discussion to interrupt, LOL.

[@ENFPerspectives]

Somehow I stepped getting updates. Rerang the bell.

[@kellikakes81]

49:50 same here! my dad is an istj too and I just have to accept that I'll never really know him. He's 76 and starting to share a little (teeny tiny) more, but not much.

[@estebangodoy773]

Always great to see your videos, its so cool. There's always something to learn. Great and interesting panel :)

[@JoyceMeng22]

:) Glad you think so, Esteban!

[@estebangodoy773]

@@JoyceMeng22 Absolutely ! The way you interact with people and connect stories and ideas is awesome ( and impressive ) , nice to see you evolving in the Type Talk journey.

[@meredith18352]

ESTJs are so much louder than ISTJs. If this was a panel of ESTJs they would all not be waiting as quietly and patiently as this group.

[@xaisthoj]

Estj loves to talk.

[@vonbruhh]

really hard to tell, I used to think I am an ISTJ but now I am not sure. I'm strongly future oriented, I literally have an idea on how I'm going to die after accomplishing my purposes. And although I not see that much of abstract thinking in me (intuition), sometimes I come out with deep thoughts. Like, other day I was thinking how nothing would exist if humans not existed at all, because only a human conscience can assign meaning to things and perceive that something exists. Would that kind of reasoning be Ni or Si Te in some way? Or maybe even Ne inf.

[@carmenmty3814]

I can't type myself. I don't understand how is SI dominant, so I don't know if I'm ISTJ or INTJ...

[@TheSnugglery]

💕

[@theloniusmonk1263]

@Joyce Meng, I very much enjoy your content, however on this occasion your definition of logic vis a vis Te and Ti is off. Both Te and Ti can be "sloppy" as you say, in fact your definition there was sloppy. Te is the logic of dynamic processes, and logical heuristics. Ti is syllogistic logic. Both can be done sloppily and go wrong. I gave noticed most people in the Type Community have very little understanding of logic and often make such errors they equate logic with simply thinking which is incorrect.

[@JoyceMeng22]

I would agree with your definition - Thelonius Monk! When I am calling Te sloppy, I am referring to its "good enough" mentality that is prevalent in Te dominant types (ESTJ, ENTJ). When I interview them, they often say they try to find an expedient solution that will do "for now".

[@theloniusmonk1263]

@@JoyceMeng22 in that case you are right! We do tend to do things on the fly to the basic necessary level a lot of the time. I'm enjoying your content, keep up the good work!