Why ISTPs Commonly Mistype as INTP and INTJ with Practical Typing Mara, Dominic & Deon Jansen

ISTPs explain why their personality type commonly mistypes as INTP and INTJ.
INTJ vs ISTP discussion begins 58:00 minutes in!
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Comparing the Look-alikes: INTP vs. ISTP vs. INTJ
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9 ISTP Stereotypes
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[@rckindkitty]

I think that ISTPs do not wish to speculate sometimes for fear that they will make inaccurate statements. This can make them come across as being vague and not being specific enough. However, I think that this can be because they do not want to exude a false confidence in the specifics of an argument, thus setting themselves up for needlessly inaccurate information.

[@BeyondSustainableLiving]

Yes, I can definitely see this in my ISTP brother.

[@alext5497]

Yes

[@jiyama]

yeah true i dont throw what i think easily unless theyve been through rigorous research and understanding (Ti) cuz as much as possible i dont wanna sound like im saying groundless bs

[@TheSnugglery]

I love this 😍 I have an intp husband and istp dad. I don't think I'd really understand Se/Ne without knowing them 😂. Observation: they are both very relaxed and cool in their respective secondary functions. My dad is fun, friendly, chill while doing Se stuff and my hubs is that way when collaborating, exchanging ideas, debating or other Ne stuff. However, they are also both super intense with their 3rd functions 😂🙈 like if my dad is talking about his worldview or if my husband is talking about how uncomfortable our couch is...prepare for a 30 min manifesto style rant 🤣

[@PowerRedBullTypology]

Another thing that helps you tell the difference between INTPs and ISTP's is to look where they might enjoy the extremes more and where they like the saver options more. With ISTP's their Se likes the concrete extremes (like let's say shooting/bungeerjumping etc) while the thoughts are more save and not extreme (Ni) and INTPS like extreme thoughts (seemingly crazy theory, extreme jokes) while physically/concretely (Si) they prefer the saver options (no extremes like bungeer jumping) When types have the same first function, it's the second that reveals best which one of the two they are since one of them has it quite strong (aux function) and the other has that same function very weak. So INFJ has lots of Fe and INTJ no Fe at all (polr)

[@BeyondSustainableLiving]

To answer Dominic at 1:13:30, we do it because it's FUN. I love nothing more than planning out my dreams. It's heavenly. There's probably nothing else I'd rather do. It's as if I get to live out my dream to a large degree in the here and now simply through the planning process. Since as an ISTP you don't have dreams or know what you want so much, then that may be why you don't relate to the pleasure if imagining a dream. And also the planning process itself is pleasurable because you get to imagine something amazing and then create it, almost as a living piece of artwork with an energy and life to it that you are bringing into manifestation from your mind, into the real world (vs on some medium like a tangible physical thing). You create something into existence and that feels wonderful. So, it's not that we "work" to attain something later. It's more that we have fun doing the creation and that we also attain something fun later in its manifestation. A good analogy would be how you enjoyed the process of putting together Legos even if you did not complete your construction for many days or weeks. You didn't just enjoy the final outcome. You enjoyed the whole process. Just as Deon doesn't JUST enjoy the final model plane but the whole process of creating it. It didn't feel like work to you because you enjoyed the process/journey. That's how planning feels to me. Another example is that I enjoy packing because I start imagining the thing I'm packing for, like a vacation or event, and I start anticipating it and having a lot of fun getting excited about it.

[@BeyondSustainableLiving]

This was interesting! My brother is an ISTP (an electrician) so I liked learning more about his type. It explains why he has always been so quiet among other things. I'm 3 years older and an INTJ and when we were really little, like ages 4-10, my parents used to have to make me stop answering for him because he would not speak and I would feel the need to speak for him and tell people what he meant. Or they would ask him a question and he would answer so quietly that they would not understand and I would repeat it and explain what he said. I always seemed to just know what he was trying to communicate. At least I thought I did and he seemed to like it. He didn't seem to mind at all but they wanted him to learn to speak for himself. It was good for me too to learn at a very young age to allow more time for people to respond.

[@AslanFlorendo]

@@hanspeter2534 I bet he still won't mind. Haha

[@Slippernips]

Glad to see Deon enjoying these talks! He's really a great ISTP specimen.

[@findandobserve]

Deon is amazing at explanations. Even concepts, particularly around Ni. As an NiTe, I loved hearing everyone’s thoughts in this video. Each piece of insight is so valuable and makes so much sense.

[@arcadianfox8127]

I love how Joyce's just in awe, absorbing all the Ti.

[@JoyceMeng22]

Gotta love that Ti!

[@ashleywagner8650]

Ooh, great topic, Joyce 👌 Thanks, everyone! [I’m about 35 mins behind your live stream now (it doesn’t show the time from the beginning), but Dominic just mentioned that INTPs have more ease with starting talking vs ISTPs/difficult to start if they don’t know the point - such a helpful difference to note! Also, this is something Chris often mentions when I want him to just talk about something, and I have trouble understanding how that’s hard for him 🤣]

[@tofusamurai22]

100% relate to the need to address confounding factors that would change an answer, having 'Ti' child. This was awesome to get multiple ISTP's on at once! Thank you!

[@rckindkitty]

Great episode, Joyce! This one is near and dear to my heart. As I have recently realized that I mistyped myself as an INTP for approximately 20 years. I was truly shocked when I was typed as LSI-N by Victor Gulenko, but I came to realize pretty quickly that it was true and made good sense. I just could not see the forest for the trees on that one... for many reasons including those that were mentioned in this recording. I felt like such an absolute donkey! I always tested INTX, usually INTP. In all honesty, most ISTP profiles are almost made to confuse and mislead more intellectually heavy ISTPs. In retrospect, I should have noticed Ne brake, but the way that Se was described as being used by ISTPs in many profiles does not fit me well. I never worked with my hands much nor built much of anything physical as a kid, nor was I as impulsive or active as some ISTP stereotypes. In terms of philosophy, it is definitely within the ISTP wheelhouse, so long as they view it as being applicable within their lives, rather than doing it for its own sake. I care about philosophy because it can help me to lead a better life, at least in theory. Otherwise, it feels a little self-indulgent to fixate on it too much. Having said all that, there is not a 1 to 1 correlation between Humanitarian Socionics and MBTI, so I would have to be typed by someone within the MBTI system to be 100% that LSI will convert to ISTP. But I suspect that it does, in fact, convert over to MBTI ISTP in my case. Cheers!

[@JoyceMeng22]

Hey Drew! Fantastic story with figuring out your type. Would you ever be interested in participating in a Type Talks video? :) If so, email me at [e-mail]!

[@arlenehutchinson9259]

This was the BEST ISTP video I have seen. Thank you do much Joyce. You managed to get them to talk in a way I recognize which means that they were comfortable with you but more importantly that they respect your brain 🧠😅😄 Thank you so much to the ISTPs on this video I FINALLY felt I was not alone I had been debating the INTP or even INFJ but never INTJ .... I think this was the closest anyone has come to explain the ISTP . Deon's point NE being highjacked to NI is so true 💯 the information slotted and linked to other topic so as to hold it in place but the NI may also place more weight on the latest information because we are so excited to have a new shinny object. Dominic's point on the same is also true. I do find, given the internet that I do wonder down paths but it is easy for me to loose interest as soon as the initial search had been deviated from sufficiently that I have lost sight of it. However, any information that doesn't fit can be held in the miscellaneous file for future use. I don't think ISTPs would find themselves wondering if we were in a physical library instead of the internet. Mara's point that anyone/type can be interested in anything is very reassuring because I too am into psychology and philosophy it came very late but as she said it's because I was looking for answers...in the same way I discovered mbti and C.Y because I was looking for a missing piece of information that I need to apply. The only question I would have asked the group is if they think/feel other people are vague? I didn't realize people may think I'm vague 😭😱👀 but to be honest I more often than not am saying in my head GET TO THE POINT !!! 😂😂😂😂. I wonder if many ISTPs have had issues with modern art as we tend to see the literal so seeing something we know is meant to have an underlying meaning may strain our credulity 😭🤷🏾 or is it just me.. when Deon was talking about TI SE overrides the NI I had a real aha moment.

[@someonesomewhere6123]

I haven't watched the video yet but I assume that the reason ISTP are so often mistyped is that people tend to forget that ISTPs are ti dominant. But the ISTP type is often not viewed as a thinking type. The stereotype is a dull man who is great at mechanics but otherwiese very simple minded.

[@bradyconlon9569]

Thanks for this video Joyce, dominic, Mara, and deon. Makes me think a bit more about Se/Si and Ne/Ni. Not as easy to understand as I thought previously

[@nj3195]

By the way, INTJ’s vague intuition has connected so much of what humanity has missed. Concrete is good for inching along what is known but the unconscious pattern recognition is what the mind can REALLY do. Additionally, some INTJ’s with extremely high intuition can organize thoughts by asking questions they have before they sleep and wake up with clear and simple answers. Not everyone who is INTJ can do this but it is another quirk that has been ignored because of rareness and the subjective nature of the phenomenon. I guarantee with more research this will be discovered. I use this method to solve problems, connect ideas and generate perspectives that bring stronger comprehension to the implications of decisions.

[@nj3195]

I think 🤔 you can tell if you are an INTJ. If you look for meaning on a daily basis you are an INTJ. That’s it. The other personalities don’t care enough.

[@ifonlyunu994]

this was such a peaceful and informative interview.

[@JoyceMeng22]

💕 =] Thanks, Dawn.

[@rach_bot]

Mara talked about having an unconscious observation when hitting a stick with her leg. I can totally identify with this. I can be pretty clumsy on my feet, but It seems like I have a nano-second of time where I can direct the way I fall or how I fall to reduce how much injury I end up with. The most recent thing like this is I went on a slide, I pretty much threw myself down the slide. As I sped towards the end I realised I was going way to fast and If I plant my feet at the end I was going to fall flat on my face. So to stop this, I sort of rolled off the end of the slide and the only thing that happened was I became very dusty. Everyone exclaimed 'that was cool!' They pretty much thought I had gone down in that manner in order to execute a cool maneuver. Which I don't mind, as long as they didn't see the alternative.

[@hanjesse31]

@26:18 I think all introverted function seems so hard to define. Like what Miss Joyce said before that in MBTI, introverted functions are like memory bank or internal framework of the 4 main psychological functions. I just noticed that high Ti user ISTP cant separate the concept well between Ti and Ni. Or maybe it was not really well defined, yet? I mean because Tise value the concrete more than the abstract like what Miss Mara said.

[@unme1834]

I don't know, if you're familiar with this system, but it might also be a good idea for a video to talk about how one's tendencies in the Big 5 parameters might influence one's type or even lead to mistyping, i.e. a sensor, who scores high on Openness or a feeler, who scores low on Agreeableness. After all, there are higher correlations between some of the factors and the MBTI, which could be where some of the confusion is coming from.

[@charlespackwood2055]

iSTP's are important in NASCAR.

[@noahgriskauskas4459]

Deon does not strike me as an ISTP at all. I think ISTJ is more appropriate as he continuously talks about Ni as a kind of "relating". He is much more willing to give a "complete image" of what he is talking about - which is rather jarring in comparison to Mara's terse, to the point, and direct manner of responding that one would typically expect from an ISTP. The examples he gives of Se also seem more appropriately explained by strong Si - knowing the exact layout of pieces he left on the table for his modeling. Ironically, Mara makes the point that she is slightly off-put by this kind of exacting / detailed oriented behavior in Si doms - which makes sense because while an ISTP does have strong unconscious Si, it is unvalued. I would expect an ISTP to be more likely to dismiss these kinds of details as unnecessary, and instead just observe the pieces' locations via Se. He also talks about Ni as a kind of earned familiarity at times - suggesting he has mistaken his Si as Ni. He does not come off as Fe valuing. Even with inferior Fe, IXTPs can still pretty clearly be seen as somewhat willing to participate in the "social atmosphere" - smiling along here and there were deemed appropriate (albeit in a visibly repressed way). Deon does not appear to care about Fe whatsoever. Usually that "Fe struggle" is somewhat visible in IXTPs, but IXTJs appear to just completely ignore it all together - which in my view is what Deon appears to be doing here.

[@handy-ewes]

Great explanation, thank you.

[@barrydworak]

SO TRUE about planning, studying, etc.!

[@rp627]

thank goodness for someone as down-to-earth as Mara 🙏🙏 i fear that you will have too many stereotype types, and that the content will propagate that bias... you might need to find room for untyped peoples!

[@joni-nv3el]

but then they could not talk about mbti she could only type them in the vid and at the same time how do you find stranger who will talk about this without mbti like smh idk people now day have hard time say hello -intp

[@barrydworak]

When we're driving alone? What does he mean by "when?" I had to have my driver's seat completely rebuilt. The passenger seat was like new still.

[@someonesomewhere6123]

There are people who believe that I am an ISTP but that can't be because even though I think a lot I find it hard to make decisions solely with logical thinking. My father (who is either IXTP or an ISTJ) is much better at it. His ability in logical thinking is much higher than mine. I often feel lost with it and rely more on my gut feelings. My gut feeling arrives first and afterwards I try to prove my gut feeling by observing and by logical thinking. That seems more loke an INTJ or INFJ. The problem is that I have never been good at planning nor did I ever like it. I assume that ni-dominants are very good at planning. There were times in my life when I had to make major life decisions (for example after graduating highschool) and I went through a phase of big anxiety due to this. I have been wondering if I am a se-dominant who has been stuck in the inferior grip for almost my whole life. But everybody who knows me in real life would be like "ESXP? Are you insane? That is so NOT you!" And they are right. I appear more like the stereotypical INFP or ISFP.

[@dxfifa]

Ni doms are only good at planning when they have good Te and Fi vision. You definitely sound like an INFJ. The actual best planners are ISTJ

[@barrydworak]

INTJ vs ISTP? Ask whether you find someone inexplicably annoying. That's an INTJ. ISTPs might piss you off, but aren't annoying in the same ways.

[@lufsolitaire5351]

You mean the INTJ pisses the person off, or INTJ’s are more likely to be vocal about not liking someone(Te-Fi, polr Fe)? I could see both.

[@borgimplant]

Deon's accent sounds South African or Namibian to me, even though he is in New Zealand

[@RM-ti8nf]

He must be from SA. There are a lot of SA immigrants here in NZ

[@sientwa6102]

Is Dominic from Germany? Because his accent sounds like that

[@gta4haterhq]

Pretty obvious imo

[@ahmedsiyed3934]

both istp's seem to understand each other on some points quickly, meanwhile I find what they are trying to convey obfuscated to me and I'm also a Ti user, I wonder what kind of function is manifesting during these moments. I think it's Ni, what's your opinions?

[@ahmedsiyed3934]

@@hanspeter2534 like from 17:30 to 18:35 or from 22:36 to 24:18, also from 28:40 to 31:00 to 32:30. it's like hard to understand how the previous statement relate to the present statement.

[@deonjansen]

@@ahmedsiyed3934 that is actually a good observation on your part and you are correct. Even while I am speaking I am realising how i do not follow a fluid path like you would find in other conversations. Ideas and Ni go hand in hand and as ideas come to my mind I may just add them into conversation - sometimes over-riding clear topic flow. The Life of an ISTP.

[@karenjeandiez6331]

me? from intj, infj, to intp... But I think I am ISTP

[@arnaudj2708]

I'm really curious about deon's flags. what are they ?

[@jonathancampbell5231]

The one on the left is the North German war ensign, the flag of the German Imperial Navy. The one on the right is the Royal Air Force ensign, the flag of the British Air Force. Presumably because Deon is very into models of ships and airplanes.

[@deonjansen]

@@jonathancampbell5231 I am.... and tanks and everything else WW2. Thanks for your answer on the flags.

[@raulsanz7120]

Hi! I have one question: My first function is "Ti" and my second function is "Ni". The combination is very NT. What type do you think could be ISTP (jumper), INTJ or INTP? My enneagram is curiously 8w7. Socionics gives me "Gamma Quadra". My Jung archetype is "magician". Thank you!!! ;-)

[@MarianaSilva-kh4io]

Dominic looks like Jesse from Breaking Bad

[@EllaNut]

Dominic realized he's not INTJ when watching LiJo's videos? Hopefully LiJo is the typical INTJ.

[@BeyondSustainableLiving]

She is pretty clearly INTJ.

[@EllaNut]

@@BeyondSustainableLiving I don't understand where your certainty is coming from on this. She loves to perform and she does this at a high level from fire baton twirling / hula hooping, to aerial acrobatics ( which she is really good at), to belly dancing. Not to say INTJs can't do those things, but that it is not typical for INTJs to be that interested in Se activities. So seeing her as a typical INTJ and determining your type based on not being like her seems like a bad idea. I also am confused by her dishonesty about some of these things. In the panel Joyce did recently, she said she did not feel comfortable with belly dancing, which is contradicted by her being good at those things. Dishonesty is particularly frustrating to me. If she is really representative of INTJ, why wouldn't she just be authentic? There are other things about her that make me question her being the gold standard for INTJs, but the point here is that looking to this person as such a standard, and then basing your understanding of yourself on her is not a good way to type yourself.

[@EllaNut]

@@hanspeter2534 Hopefully that's accurate at least.

[@EllaNut]

@@hanspeter2534 I think she's an ENTJ and her content on her channel reflects that. She is very much Do, Think, Do and not Think, Do, Think. This is an easy mistake to make and why some people, like Dominic, will feel that something is off about her in relation to themselves when considering if they are INTJ. As for proof of her many Se activities, there is a video of her doing them. KZbin won't let me link it, but you can search on vimeo for "Loud Life Productions Lindsay Johnson" and it will come up.

[@BeyondSustainableLiving]

@@EllaNut I know because I am an INTJ and I know her personally. I have had conversations with her and as an INTJ myself, I recognize the traits in her. You can't act just learn the insights she shares if you're not an INTJ. My father is an ENTJ and it's very different. Yes we have the same functions but the placement makes a big difference. To me she seems much more INTJ than ENTJ. How can you be so sure she's not?