Why Lily Orchard's Video was a Bad-Faith Criticism of Dungeon Meshi

[@desertbat55]

imagine calling laios bad autistic rep when one of your favourite characters is sheldon fucking cooper

[@denpa_chan]

PLEASEEE PINNING THIS

[@toastysweaters5692]

Of course she does, they’re both cynical jerks 😒

[@i.cs.z]

Excuse me, she like who?

[@lunarlunar9405]

@@i.cs.z yeah she has defended sheldon before bro

[@i.cs.z]

​@@lunarlunar9405 I'm suddenly so glad I only know her from reputation. What's wrong with her?

[@cutecutemizuki]

me when im in a bad faith reading competition and my opponent is lily orchard 😨😨😨😨😨

[@denpa_chan]

youre not even going home w a participation award she would SWEEP

[@lilaniloxi]

She's been sweeping for 5+ years straight at this point XD

[@treyyert9561]

your up against the champ, gl

[@invinciblemikey]

her Steven universe video was the beginning and she somehow seems to have made no improvements since

[@toastysweaters5692]

Lily is the kind of person that will say they support autistic people, but will immediately turn on them once they openly show autistic traits

[@denpa_chan]

even more ironic is that she is autistic herself 😭she spent a good 2 to 3 mins basically policing other autistic ppl for not being "good" autistics

[@toastysweaters5692]

@@denpa_chan Yeah, she’s always gatekeeping what is and isn’t good representation, and it’s super weird. As a fellow autistic person, I love Laios so much

[@magical571]

she is so infuriating. imagine bringing up sheldon cooper as the goal while complaining about autistic representation...lol, autism deserves better. Her standards are so wishy washy too, you couldn't say what constitutes good rep from her opinions, whenever she deems something as unworthy it's suddenly "the objective truth".

[@-themysterygirl4757]

Funny you mentioned this cause there is this post from Lily on timblr that goes something like “here’s my problem with autistic people.”

[@toastysweaters5692]

@@-themysterygirl4757 At this point, it just feels like internal ableism

[@leonardozhang]

I don't need Laios to constantly talk about how much he misses Falin to understand that he does. Laios is shown to feel guilty for what happened to Falin several times during the series. Calling him a sociopath is just hilariously stupid but so on brand for her.

[@imaginarylivingbody7154]

Lily doesn’t seem to realize that characters can express emotions and feelings in ways beyond simply saying it out loud. I don’t understand how someone can watch the scene with him fighting the dragon and shoving his leg into its mouth with little hesitation because it is “nothing compared to the pain Falin went through.”

[@WokioWolfy]

​@@imaginarylivingbody7154she only reads books and western live action schlock

[@labbit35]

It’s really stupid that she thinks Laios doesn’t care when in the first episode, THE FIRST EPISODE, Laios decides to immediately go back into the dungeon and plans to eat the monsters on the way to reach that point ASAP so they could resurrect Falin before she is completely digested. Laios is caring about it by actively speedrunning the dungeon and she somehow missed that point that was outright told in front of the audience on EP1.

[@alchemystudiosink1894]

@@labbit35 She's what Drinker would refer to as "Modern Audience" who understands things less than a Squirrel understands the Nicaean-Venetian Treaty of 1219.

[@TRAFFI4C]

If Laios never cared about Falin then the entire plot wouldn’t had existed in the first place since he goes back to the dungeon just to save her and to eat monsters.

[@probablyjinxed]

so obvious she 100% started watching it for the farcille then got big mad when she realized it was more than “the cute lesbians anime fans draw on twitter now”, she will not survive the winter.

[@bloodysparkles5372]

it's so hard to consume farcille content without someone bringing up "doomed yuri" too lmao, like how did she miss that😭

[@homestuck_official]

​@@bloodysparkles5372 I mean to be fair calling it "doomed" is wrong, considering manga spoilers. But still

[@kikiscribbles]

More like she'll starve lmao, talk about being a picky eater

[@Ollie_Unlikely]

“She will not survive the winter” killed me lmaoooo

[@NickGamerShadow]

Farcille is the fuckup yuri we need, she isnt ready. I mean tbh like yuri manga isnt even that sanitized, like Dungeon Meshi really isnt all that weird when compared. A little momster fuckery, blood, existencial crisis, divorced old man, all the good stuff

[@skitterly]

You know what. How on earth did she think this was gonna be just a slice of life comedy? The first scene is of Falin getting EATEN!?!?

[@hewhodoes8073]

It's odd, a lot of people seem to think that, like the show doesn't have a moving plot until the dragon fight when it very clearly does.

[@YokaiLover699]

I think it might be mostly fans posting a lot about the funny aspects. But that's not the fans' fault, it's her's.

[@herooftime8213]

i kinda got this impression reading it too though, and i feel like that's deliberate. falin getting eaten does not have the gravity you might expect especially since they make it out like they're totally going to go and save her. and then immediately get into silly dungeon cooking antics. i feel like its only at the fight with the dragon and the aftermath that the weight of everything going on starts to truly become apparent for a lot of people. Its a surprising tone shift if you aren't expecting it. though i think it actually alludes to that tone shift really well before hand it doesn't surprise me if its not obvious to a lot of people I love dungeon meshi btw its honestly one of my favorite manga right now.

[@iansorono5376]

​@@herooftime8213ya know what this is very fair. Iirc when the dragon fight episode aired alot of the long time manga fans, myself included, where sharing memes about the show entering the "wtf" stage of the narrative. And honestly it makes sense, the shows narrative lowkey makes light of dying because if you die in the dungeon there s always the chance to get revived. Plus Laios knowledge of typical dragons gave them and us the audience that they had plenty of time to save Falin. It wasnt until the meeting with the orcs that red flags started popping up and were alerted that the dragon didnt go into "hybernation" and something was terribly wrong.

[@KirbyStarAnimation]

When the main thing people talk about is the eating the monsters and a living suit of armor it’s not surprising.

[@reganholmes5056]

The thing i love most about Laios, especially as an autistic person, is seeing how his english voice actor Damien Haas gushes about feeling seen and represented as an autistic person himself. He's talked about how he's dug into his own experiences with autism to bring more depth to the role, which just fills me with so much admiration for the character even more. Great video!

[@mo0nlight_vidsandmore441]

Wait he has? That’s so cool omg I love that so much!

[@gristen]

i havent really been watching the dub beyond some clips here and there, but its really great to see a dub voice actor be this passionate and connect so much with their role. its something i feel thats missing from a lot of dubs and id probably watch them more if every person involved in the dubbing process, both voice actors and translators, brought as much life to it as he is. definitely one of the most fitting dub voices ive seen in a long time, almost worth watching it for him alone lol

[@mehlover]

Oh my gosh, I didn't realize Damien was in this! Now I wanna watch it!

[@lifecuntingent]

I thought the dub was really good and especially liked Laios's VA. That's the only thing in this video I don't agree with necessarily.

[@ProfiteerProphet]

There is no greater endorsement for any piece of media than Lily Orchard disliking it.

[@Autumnlindquist2917]

Got into Steven universe because of her :)

[@SpinfoilHat]

@@Autumnlindquist2917 never heard of lily before what did she say about steven universe? i can only imagine given the rest of the comments about her on this video lol

[@J0j0_Flip]

​@@SpinfoilHat You should just watch a review of the video or watch the video, the video is too long to fit into this comment section

[@SpinfoilHat]

@@J0j0_Flip I guess it's more of the same? Everything is Bad for Stupid Reasons?

[@Autumnlindquist2917]

@@SpinfoilHat tbh i think most of her review was complaining about the release schedule which has nothing to do with the actual quality of the show itself

[@momoko6917]

From what I know, Lily seems to hate worldbuilding in stories and magic systems,no wonder she hates dungeon meshi honestly

[@denpa_chan]

only found this out after posting but apparently before her twitter account was banned she kept posting about falin x marcille and was saying it was the only reason she was watching :/ i love farcille but the worldbuilding is so interesting! youre right that it def contributed to her disdain, especially since ive been seeing her other critique videos and she just refuses to suspend any disbelief or engage with complex worlds

[@simmie912]

​@@denpa_chanOnly watching a show because of a ship is a terrible way to consume media tbh

[@XCasper1999X]

​@denpa_chan also a farcille shipper here. I feel like that's such an odd take because to me the twos relationship (even if you don't see it as romantic) is meaningful because of the lengths Marcille goes to and the world building that goes along with it. "I'll risk everything and break all the laws of magic and perceived decency just to have you back." Is so much more heart wrenching and romantic than anything else I can think of. It's the moment that made me go, "oh... you love this woman, you love her more than anything."

[@Treegona]

If she hates worldbuilding she's not gonna have a better time with this show in the latter half. And I can't imagine that anyone who objects to magic systems and world building is going to have a good time with the fight in the big kitchen. Dollars to doughnuts she calls that one an ass-pull.

[@fraidnaught9067]

@@XCasper1999X _how_ Marcille loves Falin is open to interpretation, _THAT_ Marcille loves Falin deeply and truly is undeniable.

[@roberthebert2826]

So from what I gather Lily Orchard's take on autistic people is basically, "I'm all for and support you guys.....just like, mask 24/7 or I'll have to assume you are a bad person."

[@themechanic9974]

If I remember correctly Lily only gets upset at the representation when his sister is horribly mutilated and he goes oh cool. I'm pretty sure that was her one problem with it. She didn't like that it was being presented like even in horrific situations autistic people can't focus. Which a lot of people with autism can in situations where they need to.

[@roberthebert2826]

@@themechanic9974 I still feel that is unfair, Laios did take the situation seriously and only started going "oh cool" well after the fight when they were trying to figure out how the griffon body worked.

[@airplanes_aren.t_real]

Also "Whatever "emotions" you guys feel need to be clearly and verbally clarified at all times otherwise I'll just assume you're faking them, except for when it's something you're actually interested in because in that case keep it to yourself"

[@luisadesoveralbotelho5754]

​@@themechanic9974 For me, Laios' reaction to Falin's death was exactly what made him so relatable. He reenters the dungeon with insufficient supplies and half the man power to save his sister, he thinks of her, refuses to abandon what is a grim mission. His actions tell you how much he loves her, how focused he is in this cause. But because of his style of communication/ coping mechanisms, no one believes that he could be feeling deep or complex emotions. It is presumed that he isn't, because it doesn't look like Marcile's emotions. And that is a very relatable tragedy to me, as someone who has a hard time recognising feelings and making them clear on my face. (I got into the habit of just interjecting with my feelings ex."I'm mad/upset/happy" and sometimes people still ignore that because of their fixation of what my face looks like or what I'm doing)

[@mediocreplayer8137]

​@@themechanic9974 If that's her take, she entirely missed the point, just because Laios doesn't show himself all the time as worried, doesn't mean he isn't, the thing I dislike the most is that people insist that autism is an spectrum, but they see an autistic character that has "flaws" and they just say "tHaT's bAd rEpReSeNtAtIOn" when the character is probably one of the best. I adore Laios, he shows that just because he is a tall man/human ("most basic race in fantasy worlds") with an average design, he can stand out because of his personality and attitude... I do feel represented with Laios sometimes, because I do have a problem to show some emotions, especially sadness, that doesn't mean I can't feel them

[@Solar-Blade]

Her take on Laios having autism is the equivalent of saying Barrett from Final Fantasy is bad black representation and then gassing up the fucking crows from Dumbo.

[@jmiquelmb]

No joke, a representative from some shitty smartphone gaming company (I think it was zinga) said in a presentation that Barret was bar Black rep

[@sonicfan2403]

​@@jmiquelmb What!?

[@mastermuffles7097]

Of course its a bad-faith criticism of dungeon meshi I don't think Lily Orchard has ever done anything in good faith

[@zealotoftheorchard9853]

Lily Orchard and Good do not go together unfortunately

[@rvtar34]

​@@zealotoftheorchard9853well, it *can* work together in a sentence, for example: "Lily Orchard is good at making bad analyses"

[@hermescarraro3393]

​@@rvtar34 or "Lily Orchard is a good for nothing creator" 😂

[@treyyert9561]

@@hermescarraro3393 ;LMAO

[@WokioWolfy]

I think she just trying to cash in on money by hating everything because she wrote one story and thinks she knows how to write stories.

[@lolaseiss]

I accidentally clicked on her vid since i didn't recognize the channel name and it had a great thumbnail but before it got taken down i saw in her comments someone making a joke that her vid sounded like if shiro was making a callout post on laios and thats hilarious bc it's exactly what she sounded like she big mad bc laios has more autistic swag lmao 🤣

[@KeitieKalopsia]

LMAO that’s such a funny way to describe it

[@rindademon3339]

This is how I'm going to look at it now because I get unreasonably mad when people boil down my hyperfixations and take out the nuance-

[@animeotaku307]

That feels unfair to Toshiro. At least he has the excuse of being from a culture where politeness is valued over blunt honesty.

[@ghoma8336]

Laios in the last three episodes absolutely demolishing the 'bad autistic rep' allegations

[@denpa_chan]

AMEN!

[@Tenebrio-Morio]

Quite possible the best rep I've seen in media, right up there with Ultraman Z.

[@hasanmuttaqin464]

There's certain allegory in the fact that laios only start unmasking when he's far away down from civilization with the people he trust,.the subtle subtext is beautiful

[@Targetstrike]

Speaking of autistic rep, I liked Fred’s depiction in Scooby-doo Mystery Incorporated, he seemed very autistic

[@GuiSmith]

@@TargetstrikeVery! Absolutely loved that version of Fred

[@leomorris7573]

i hope lily orchard never stops making videos because i am constantly fascinated by how wrong she is about literally everything. how can you say laios is sociopathic and unlikable for his autistic traits while calling SHELDON COOPER from BIG BANG THEORY good autistic representation

[@denpa_chan]

genuinely so appalling.. all while insulting irl autistic people too

[@SteppefordWife]

The fact she also praises Sheldon because he get's regularly "called out" for his autistic traits (rather than shitty actions unrelated to autistic traits) and claims any gripes with Sheldon as autistic rep "infantilising". Bruh, forcing autists to mask isn't mature. Likewise autistic traits aren't immature or bad. Shuro literally threw a tantrum over Laios communicating bluntly and openly and Lily thinks Shuro's tantrum is "calling Laios out on his bs"???

[@sam7559]

​@windywillow6071 as an autistic person, conforming to society should be the goal, not turning society allo to autistic. The goal for anyone in society is to fit in with societal norms

[@zkkitty2436]

@@sam7559 as another autistic person, I completely disagree with you. we should build a society in which no one is punished for not conforming with bullshit societal rules, esp when no one is actually being hurt. f

[@lihns]

At that point she’s just saying offensive shit for the hustle lol. Which kind of explains the previous SU video

[@human.0170]

the milliesecond i saw "anime being weird about female characters again" like wtf, dungeon meshi is the only anime i feel safe to recommend people because it lacked so much of fanservice anime usually gives while at the same time having some of the best girls: like i loved that orc chief so much.

[@anitaremenarova6662]

Dungeon Meshi giving the fanservice of Senshi instead has to be the funniest joke in it.

[@human.0170]

@@anitaremenarova6662 oh right right, his BULGE

[@Murmarine]

@@human.0170 Mans walking around with the entire dong out like that.

[@alastryona]

The closest thing to fanservice ive noticed is just chimera falin when she's killing everyone (and the shot of her ripping her shirt was mostly for marcille and shuro's reaction Imo) besides that it's all dwussy hours baby

[@squidgirl0413]

people are so allergic to any sexual content that they assume anything even mildly horny in content must be 'fanservice' as if ryoko kui hasnt drawn like 15 elves that she refers to as her wives. the only fan the bath scene is servicing is the mangaka herself

[@JenocidalTendencies]

I stopped listening to her when she called Liaos a generic male protagonist for having blond hair and BLUE eyes.

[@bachtrinh8783]

Apparently his design is not as flashy as Hazbin's characters

[@flyingorange2482]

Blue eyes? Did she even looked at his face? 😭

[@sugarsailors.5939]

most generic male protagonists aren’t even blonde… it’s just a stereotypical beauty standard in media 😭

[@derpfluidvariant0916]

​@@sugarsailors.5939for real. If anything, it's going against some tropes to have a fantasy dude with blond hair not be an evil paladin.

[@MrGameSecrets]

Like yea laios isn't a crazily over the top design. And i feel like thats deliberate and its contrasts the fact that he is definitely the most ""abnormal"" in his thought processes and fixations. Having a pretty normal looking guy be a font of interesting character development and perspective is a fun subversion.

[@PGT860]

the idea that comedy and tragedy/drama/complex world building can't cohabitate really makes it seem like Lily Orchard has never watched a shounen before

[@denpa_chan]

she apparently only likes very straightforward slice of life series or easily resolved drama lol

[@RokkTheRock]

lilys only shows she tolerates is lesbian fluff with no character growth. not hyperbole.

[@magical571]

@@denpa_chan thing is, she seems to hate any form of subtlety. For her, you are either rushing to the finish line and fighting the big bad boss inmediately, or you are somehow wasting her precious time and attention. you either do that, or you drop everything to the side and just tell episodic stories with zero connection, she even says so herself, that you "MUST choose" lol. So much for writing advice haha.

[@Nparalelo]

Her, and everybody who always uses "tone inconsistency" to dislike anything. Ma'am, life is tonally inconsistent. One minute you are laughing with friends, the next one you get a call because grandma died. I don't want a show where everybody mops and broods 100% of the time.

[@nameless_moon]

​@@NparaleloYe, "tone inconsistency" only works for shows too childish for adult to enjoy with brain on yet also have too much inappropriate scenes for children, who can ignore the childish writing.

[@juniawetmann1311]

One of the things that made me resonate with Laios so much since the beginning is his "failure" to show that he's worried for Fallin and loves her in a typical way. I have been treated as "broken" or "cold" before for no reacting to grief and loss and a neurotipical way and the fact that Laios didn't show that he was worrying for his little sister in a typical way made me feel so seem. It's also wild to say he doesn't care, dude was ready to throw himself into the dungeon alone with no food and no preparation just to get her back, like, _in the first episode_. We can also argue that Chilchuck does care for her, even if they don't know each other that much, just by the fact that he didn't follow Namari and Toshiro disbanding. But again, Chilchuck shows care in an atypical way so it doesn't surprise me Orchard wouldn't see it as a valid way to show care.

[@juniawetmann1311]

(edited for grammar)

[@denpa_chan]

EXACTLY!!!! they are all such fleshed out characters but laios' ways of expressing himself, particularly how he is driven by action over communication or performing emotions/masking, hits so hard. but fr the first 2 mins of the first ep he shows how dedicated he is-- everything you said just proves that lily was not paying attention bruh 😭😭 like i said in the vid this isnt even subtext its Blatant Text!! thank you for adding these additional notes, very appreciated :3

[@juniawetmann1311]

@@denpa_chan yes yes. Its also kinda funny how a common theme in the story is how Laios' and Fallin's autistic traits are seen as acceptable or deranged depending on the person (Ex.: Toshiro getting annoyed at Laios but "manic pixie dream girl"ing Fallin) and Orchard just doing the exact same. Like, Fallin is a lesbian so she's is a positive and cool, but Laios is a dude so he's a sociopath and bad

[@denpa_chan]

@@juniawetmann1311 it was so ableist and ignorant of orchard to go off on laios bc of that ugh. falin spent her whole life masking which is what pisses me off most :/ like falin shows clear discomfort when being alone because she has yet to develop into someone thats fully independent or not reliant on her masking!! this is what happens to so many autistic ppl but making it seem like falin was cute and likable for it was so -.- then shitting on laios for being nuanced in how he expresses himself especially after the confrontation w toshiro clarifying so so much is insane!! but agreed, esp because in the manga some bits between laios and falin are drawn the same to show that they are essentially functioning the same, but only one of them is deemed to be acceptable (also probs linked to the fact that shes skilled-- like the irl autistic math genius stereotype which is so clever) i could talk ab this foreverrr but ofc orchard had to make it a personal nitpick and insult fest

[@cacarlin70]

Laios did not stick his leg in a dragons mouth for his sister for someone to say he doesnt care about her

[@dirkstrider657]

Lily couldn't even handle Steven Universe. I'm not surprised she's still baffling people with her half baked takes.

[@auraguard0212]

Lily's take on Steven Universe got worse... and worse... and worse... as her video went on. She even said an entire group of people were "by their very nature, interesting", as if they were zoo animals. Which was weird, since I didn't like the show either. Her Korra review had the same problems. @.@

[@derpfluidvariant0916]

​@@auraguard0212If she was talking about the gems, I kinda gotta agree with her there. Mineral constructs that can combine with one another, and are born by being carved from stone is a legitimately cool alien species concept. That's legit something I'd go around talking to all the people in an RPG village to learn more about: how they live, work, are named, ECT. I didn't particularly like the series, but it was more of just not vibing with the characters or art style than a legit criticism. Heard it had some story hiccups, but I've ignored those before just fine.

[@auraguard0212]

@@derpfluidvariant0916 She was talking about transgender people. 😅

[@derpfluidvariant0916]

@@auraguard0212 oh

[@auraguard0212]

@@derpfluidvariant0916 I'm pretty sure she's transgender and/or didn't mean it in a weird way, but it's just one point of how weird her videos are written.

[@SteppefordWife]

Honestly, Lily calling Laios an unlikeable sociopath for his autistic traits (and yes he IS intentionally written to be autistic, not just in fanon and not to "excuse 'shitty behaviour'" that isn't even shitty so why tf would it be a fanon "excuse" if no one sees it as bad in the first place except for Lily) flashed me back to my sister. Anytime I confided in her about bullying at school or strangers in the street yelling insults at me, throwing stuff at me or peers refusing to go near me or talk to me unless they wanted something from me (either to be milked as a lolcow for existing, or be used as a robot helper with schoolwork), she'd say it's not actually that bad and defend their actions as justified because I "must be doing something to set them off" and I should "stop being so weird". Lily's rhetoric, like my sister's, perpetuates genuinely harmful ablism and social isolation of autistic people (just like Laios experienced in Dungeon Meshi). Our existence doesn't harm anybody, and Lily needs to stop acting like it does.

[@skitterly]

Yeah, while my situation wasn’t quite as bad as yours, I did face my share of bullying and isolation growing up due to undiagnosed mental illness. To see people mock and judge Laios for the same traits that I have is so disheartening. Will they ever learn…

[@ChronicallyTweaking]

Ryoko kui is a god in her field of work

[@ma.2089]

Reminds me of Butch Hartman talking about how introverts make ppl uncomfortable. Theyre Awful people.

[@hermescarraro3393]

Lily orchard literally said in a video mocking the mosterious mister enter, notorious autistic yt creator, that just cause you are autistic, doesn't mean you know how autism work. And I guess just cause she is trans, she does not know how gender dismorphia works... Alright...

[@QuestionableObject]

"How fucking dare autistic person have a hard time relating with others and have a hardcore special interest"

[@mt32boi45]

Its so funny when she calls other people pedophiles when she did what she did

[@denpa_chan]

for reallll i just found about her and the fact that allegations are STILL cropping up and shes just calling everyone else pedophiles is crazy business

[@Andy-cg7il]

The call is coming from inside the house

[@Grudgebearer47]

Projection at its finest

[@zeeb2190]

Context? Ive been qvoidint finding out anything about this person cuz they sound like a train wreck but morbid curiosity has gotten me

[@icedceilin]

​@@zeeb2190 If I'm remembering correctly she wrote 'grape pc'? but I don't know anything beyond that since I also avoid her

[@Dragmiredraws]

One thing I think she misunderstood about Marcille was that she’s in a way a POV character of the audience. While the other members seems “onboard” with Laios’s crazy monster eating was because the difference between experience and intelligence. While Marcille is incredibly intelligent, she lacks experience, and can come off childish because of her reactions to things. While the others have stories explaining why they’re okay with eating monsters. Where the audience POV comes in, a lot of these fantasy stories just kinda throws the MC into a fantasy world and they just master everything quickly and are the best in everything. I feel Marcille is the reality of that trope. Very knowledgeable on the topics , but lacking experience in how to actually navigate through these situations. And if you’re looking at all the characters, you can tell that Marcille is actually the character that gets the most love from the mangaka. She not only goes through the most development, but we actually learn the most about her through the subtext and those trials she goes through

[@connorjohnson8590]

Marcelle being the main character isn’t that far off so far, hahaha

[@iansorono5376]

I mean theme wise, Marcille is the main character. As the video says, a key theme of the show is death and living, and as the recent episode with Marcilles' nightmare shows, she's the core of this theme. Laios is the protagonist of the shows plot (Falin being the driving force of the show) while Marcille is effective the main character of its central theme of life and death. It's actually p interesting

[@OneSpikeyGuy]

I personally think you could Marcille childish...and theres nothing wrong with it. Its a trait like any other

[@MoeMoe-ft7wj]

Another weird thing I have to point out is when she grouses at the series for calling the dark-skinned mad mage a dark elf. . . . No they didn't. They called Marcille a dark elf for using black/ancient magic. The mad mage technically uses black magic too, but for the most part, they just refer to him as the mad mage and just say he has brown skin and white hair. Also, I thought it was weird she called the mad mage she when they repeatedly referred to him with male pronouns, making it seem like she was really not paying attention. I also don't think it was pointless for them to lose Falin immediately, admittedly it's a plot device to keep them going deeper in the dungeon but it doesn't take away any of her rescue's emotional resonance, it's gut-wrenching to have her back and then have her slip through their fingers. Also, Marcille AND Chilchuck don't like eating monsters, Chilchuck is just more chill about it since he doesn't make a fuss as a middle-aged man. He's not a sheltered bookworm with practically no life experience like Marcille is and like you said, he's eaten monsters before. He acts like a realist and just sort of deals with the situation while Marcille gets to have the goofy reactions. But even then, he clearly has his moments where he's grossed out and on the same page with Marcille, he's also the only one so far to put his foot down on eating something by stopping Laios from considering eating the fish man and saying it doesn't feel right.

[@hafirenggayuda]

Yeah, Chil is quite chill (heh). Joke aside, Chilchuck is pragmatic about eating and survival, and acting professional in work. And while Marcille acting squeamish and complain a lot, she still force herself to eat, and finding out she enjoy most of the food. Heck, even Laios found himself hate eating squid, despite his obsession with monster

[@ragg232]

​@@hafirenggayudaFun fact about the squid, the larger species have a lot of ammonia in their flesh. That said, Laios is probably going to be put off for a while.

[@Barakon]

Or she projected her trans-ness onto the mad mage.

[@imaginarylivingbody7154]

She seemed to completely miss the fact that “dark elves” don’t exist in the Dungeon Meshi universe.

[@sophennec4120]

Yeah that part about the mad mage was where I clicked off the video. If you wanna shit on something at least get the facts right I mean if you don't care enough to check whether what you're saying is even correct why would I care about your opinion.

[@wildtamer4461]

im shocked lily orchard still has a youtube career, considering how many times people have torn apart her videos on media before

[@belldrop7365]

That's one way to be successful in youtube and other social media. Drama. What's there to be shocked about?

[@Ramsey276one]

NOT The only one in that puzzling category...

[@njcheddar]

And she apparently assault3d her sister... KZbinrs have had their careers ruined for less and yet she's still here. I'm actually concerned.

[@Barakon]

Her bad takes are her career, cuz it brings in the clicks & dislikes. She’s banking on bad publicity.

[@labbit35]

Idiots be thinking bad rep is good rep until the bad rep actually fucks them up real hard

[@hezooon]

11:34 saying "Marcille's the only character who cares about Falin being digested" is beyond ridiculous, when in the very first episode Laios is the first to suggest they go back, almost running into the dungeon alone, with no gear or supplies. Even Chilchuck, who takes payments in advance, joins despite knowing Laios has nothing to pay him with. Is Lily referring to the post dragon battle scenes? I just don't understand where this argument of hers comes from when Laios literally explains about dragon life cycles etc. What I love about Dungeon Meshi is that it doesn't spoonfeed you information about the world. When I first began watching I was so perplexed that they were going to attempt saving someone literally already eaten alive, until resurrection magic is revealed. Everything about the world and the dungeon is revealed when it becomes important, in parts, so you don't feel overwhelmed by huge loredumps. The resurrection magic details are mentioned more in the manga, which give an impression that Laios' quest is, while technically not impossible, tiptoeing on the verge of being mad. These are good stakes for a large fantasy story in my opinion Sorry for the dump, the frustration

[@hezooon]

Also about Laios supposedly not being terrified by Faligon, while yes, at first he's stunned by her thinking she's cool, in the same scene we get flashes of previous encounters: Kensuke running away from Laios and Senshi's kelpie trying to drown him, while Laios' (I think it's Laios' own voice, iirc) says "Monsters will always be monsters" (at least in the subs I watched). He is confronted by the fact that Falin now may be "lost" in a way, driven only by animalistic urges. Of course he doesn't mention it, because he still intends to move forward and do something about it, but I wouldn't say he isn't torn by it?

[@sabimaki4269]

her outright dismissal of senshi and chilchuck is SO infuriating - even early on in the series there are clear hints to their complexities and character histories being more than you'd expect. also imagine being upset that farcille isn't "soft cute uwu" yuri and is actually " a woman who would risk a life in prison and break rules of nature to bring the woman she loves back to her" yuri...can't relate!!

[@Molly-ps5mh]

Yeah, I'm gonna be honest. Cute soft uwu yuri feels... honestly patronizing sometimes? It can be comfy when it's done well, but for a series that's taking itself seriously, stuff like the way Marcille is portrayed is so much better. It feels so much more real. So much more brutal. soft uwu stories have a bad habit of ignoring the beautifully intense and destructive power of love. Marcille is my favorite of the cast for a reason. This entire cast feels very real to me, credit to the writing, but she especially I found a lot of recognition in.

[@bepisthescienceman4202]

Complaining that the Yuri isn't "soft and uwu" but is "bloody and breaks the rules of nature" is like saying your sad that your cocaine is of a high quality

[@microwave8931]

I don't really read Yuri, but wouldn't you want the love interest to be that dedicated???

[@nuclearcracker]

@@bepisthescienceman4202lmao. I just found a new metaphor to use because of this.

[@onetrickponysona2613]

the obsession with everything being uwu and cute and pure and sanitized has rotted this generation's brains

[@YourWaywardDestiny]

I predict that Lilly isn't going to take anything about the show into consideration. She'll just back track a few of the most picked-at points and hold that it's trash to have subtly or, really, any complexity. She only likes slice of life, all comfort no hurt from the shows she watches so she can add the hurt in herself later.

[@denpa_chan]

oooh can def see her removing some segments altogether. seeing many ppl on tumblr saying its likely she'll just double down and hate harder, which considering her supposed upcoming revision of the laios segment, seems likely >.>

[@bachtrinh8783]

@@denpa_chan Her hate for Laois has been engraved to the internet, there is no backtracking from that Lily's video has caught the attention on Twitter which is a platform that Dunmeshi is very popular

[@airplanes_aren.t_real]

If I'm not mistaken she deleted a couple bits and stepped off of the "laios is bad autistic rep" pedal at least a little but then she spoiled the end of the manga

[@ChubuPeng]

god, her (and even some dunmeshi fans lol) saying laios does not care about falin is so easily disproved if they just paid attention for like 1 second lol. glad you made this video! i was hoping for some people defending the series

[@denpa_chan]

thank you so much for watching! someone in the comments even pointed out laios getting his leg bitten off to slay the dragon to save falin, which is fueled by urgency and exemplary of his care for her... but of course lily didnt mention it at all lolll

[@XShrike0]

I still don't understand people claiming he didn't care about Fallin. If he didn't care why would he go back in? Do they think it was just an excuse to eat monsters? The ghosts called up memories of Fallin had Laios, and he was begging her to forgive him.

[@tintedpalette653]

There’s a reason why Laios snapped and slapped Shuro when he claimed that Laios was not taking Falin’s situation seriously. He does care and is constantly thinking about how to improve things, so someone belittling that sets him over the edge. Honestly Shuro is such a great character for the story because it’s like Kui knew that people would make bad faith critiques over Laios’s adventure so she made a character that acts exactly like the naysayers says Laios should. And then we see said character is malnourished and can’t even show much for it in terms of his mission. It’s so good, Kui is a genius.

[@quest9905]

Even for all the times Laios has annoyed the heck out of me I have never even for a second doubted that he cared about his sister. When he was gushing about how cool dragon Falin looked, I just laughed and thought that was a kinda messed up thing to think given the situation but even that didn't do anything to make me think he didn't care about her.

[@haleyzwaal4183]

​@@XShrike0I think it's an action vs words thing. Laios' actions clearly show that his prime motivation is to save Falin, but other characters SAY they think he's in it for the monsters. I crafted while watching so I could see it getting missed if you were paying bare minimum attention, but like, it's pretty explicitly an extension of Laios' consistently being misunderstood.

[@skibopmdada1152]

Lily is a woman who accused a Jewish nonbinary person of being antisemitic while saying nonbinary was just a way to seem special so… I don’t think she has any good faith takes in general

[@denpa_chan]

WHAT 💀💀💀💀 every time someone comments something about her my jaw drops she doesnt seem real atp thats so fucked

[@skibopmdada1152]

@@denpa_chan yeah it was in one of her Steven universe videos i watched IIRC

[@twistedmyth5860]

To be fair to her, she Called Rebecca Sugar a /\/4zi Sympathizer. Not much better.

[@drakelawrenceejurango5326]

I still can't believe how shit her video on steven universr was, and how people take her words for granted

[@kostajovanovic3711]

​@@twistedmyth5860in a Tumblr post she made later, the sympathizer part was gone, she started calling Sugar a full on National socialist.....

[@castaaconyet6923]

I would like to mention that other then the scarf Laios' depiction of Chilchuck is the most accurate, Laios' Chilchuck doesn't have the childish/"cuter" features Senshi's and Marcelles have thank you for coming to my ted talk-

[@AutumnOwlex]

You know how the Marcile copies pulled out their books to compare? The one from Laios actually had a good enough copy of the book to trick Chil and Senshi, even though to Marcile it looks like gibberish.

[@castaaconyet6923]

ikr? he may not know details but he knows his friends

[@vexfidel4127]

I know you're probably over this whole subject by now, but I just wanted to inform you of a major revelation - we have solid evidence that Lily didn't watch the show before making her first review. So on one of Lily's recent livestreams, one of her image folders was briefly shown, and certain folks noticed that one of the visible images was the icon used by a "fan" of Lily on tumblr - pretty much confirming that said fan is another Lily sockpuppet account. On this account, in a post dated May 5th, Lily's sockpuppet made a meme about Dunmeshi, and referred to it as "this show I haven't actually watched" Lily posted her first review to patreon on May 4th. So anyways that's fun and cool and kinda fucked up.

[@denpa_chan]

LOLLLL this keeps getting more unserious. im considering doing an informal stream on her new vid just bc i dont want to endure editing something about her again and it would be a torture session for anyone who cares to join me, but def wont be doing a big fat serious video on her again because jfc 💀💀💀💀

[@meltenvy]

I saw a couple of comments on that video that were like "I'm glad you anti-recommended this one I was going to get into it, now I don't want to" and got sad, but then I realized the type of person who gets their opinions from Lily Orchard in the first place should go kick rocks and we don't want them anyways

[@Barakon]

I still think it’s still worth offering redemption from such to someone, if they truly are the sort to follow Lily Orchard out of mutual agreement & attitudes, then they’d refuse it.

[@hermescarraro3393]

​​@@Barakoni used to watch her videos years ago... I stopped immediately when she made her horrid video about Anime Christy.... Then started to legit hate her when she treated Josh like shit despite all the things he did for her, and how she is still going on about it when he is so done with it and moved on.

[@Kibbitizzzz]

Still thought with a show as good as Dungeon Meshi I feel like if the weren’t just completely to far gone, that be watching the show before seeing Lily’s video could have broken them out of whatever yakubian spell must be on them to watch her vids. If not just by sheer cliff there is between the show and how Lily describes it.

[@dantorio367]

12:54 I also remember that in that episode they were trying to take mandragoras, Marcille said they should do it by the book. the book says that a dog will need to die to get, they mostly made fun of her method and the school. they also felt bad knowing that it hurt her

[@denpa_chan]

yeah :/ she made it seem like the party was dunking on her but there was genuine concern for her because of how dangerous the methods were-- good point!!

[@mothmanafterdark5924]

Feel I need to mention that the mandrakes pulled by her method tasted better, as agreed by every party member

[@dantorio367]

​@@denpa_chan her criticism of the cast is also overshadowed by the fact she doesn't really engage with any of them. senshi has been living in the dungeon apparently longer then the dungeon has existed (talked about in his first appearance), and he also has a skill for cooking monsters and not forging metal? like that's such an interesting character, but because of her hangups of it being an anime and not being able to accept the tone shift she isn't willing to engage with the best part of the series the characters all having enough personality and backstory to make their own show

[@starburst98]

Yeah, it is a case of the "what" being written and passed down, but somewhere the "why" got lost. Why they should be plucked and allowed to scream is because it makes them better at their purpose in potion making.

[@mothmanafterdark5924]

@@starburst98 and more flavorful!

[@Shikcri]

Laios being "bad asd rep" is some of the most baffling shit in the world to me. He is almost an EXACT representation of MY experience as an autistic person, and the first time I've really felt that experience represented genuinely. Bad rep my ass I'm literally right here ARUGH

[@Lavellanrat]

This!! In fact, he shows a lot of the bad sides of the autistic experience. As an autist it's even uncomfortable at times because DM doesn't sugar coat what his life looks like, at points his asd symptoms cause harm to others and yet he can do very little about it He's one of the best representations of living as an autistic person you can get

[@steampunk-llama]

Literally same!! Both the Touden siblings feel so so similar to me and my own brother, but holy shit I never expected to feel so seen when watching Laios infodump about monsters and for me to come to v similar conclusions simply based on my own special interest in animals (such as the Griffon arc)

[@themechanic9974]

If I remember correctly she says it's bad because it's picking the 1% of autistic people who are like that. Which isn't the best. Also it's probably less than 1%.

[@Lavellanrat]

@themechanic9974 Ok but he's not stated to be autistic anywhere in the canon It wasn't the author's intention to have him be openly autistic, he just happens to resonate with a lot of autistic people and has many traits, which is why we compare to representation Because a lot of us feel represented by him Arguing that he's bad rep in general is pointless when he's not supposed to be representing anything in the original story lol Again I do feel like he's a representation of mine and many others' experiences but he'd have to be intentionally stated as such for Lily's argument to have any meaning in the first place

[@themechanic9974]

@@Lavellanrat he really can't be both excellent autistic rep. and when something paints it as bad autistic rep; not autistic rep at all. I get what you're saying but you're response to her saying it's bad rep shouldn't be "it's good rep most of the time" it should be "it's not autistic rep at all"

[@w__w7256]

When I saw that Lily out of ALL PEOPLE made a video on dungeon meshi I just KNEW she would hate (or at least dislike) Laios, it was an intense gut feeling. (Also it is kinda expected from her at this point that she despises most characters who are white guys that have any importance to the plot and aren't villains.)

[@firelordoregano5632]

with the exception of sheldon cooper, a-fucking-pparently

[@kolbayada4938]

@@firelordoregano5632 both are considered to be insufferable assholes. Guess she can relate to that.

[@themechanic9974]

I mean not really off the top of my head. Loid Angel dust Half the Pokemon rivals Ok that was like the last four videos I've watched of hers so I can't remember anymore

[@imge509]

Is Laois even white, considering the worldbuilding? Regardless, it wouldn't surprise me if Lily immediately assumes anyone who doesn't have a different skin colour or facial features is white.

[@WhoSaidThatLikedYouSheNeverDid]

​@@themechanic9974 of coutse Lily Orchard loves Hazbin Hotel LMFAOOO

[@EvanWantsJam]

Lily, in my opinion, seems to like "criticizing" shows through what she perceives as "funny, edgy roasts". Her capacity to enjoy a story boils down to "are there lesbians and are they married?". Now, in theory, this is fine. However, her "edgy roasts" of everything that isn't her cute coffee bean lesbian fanfic always punch down, which just feels...gross. I love Laois. To say that he's some generic main protag hurts and kinda proves that she really didn't pay attention.

[@connorjohnson8590]

For real, Laios physically is generic, which is the whole point. But man, his personality is unlike any other protagonist I’ve seen in any other media. Nothing comes close!

[@noot4041]

@@connorjohnson8590yeah blud is an odd ball

[@johannesseyfried7933]

I haven't watched her videos in years, but from what I remember, Lily does seem to be kinda obsessed with lesbian characters.

[@EvanWantsJam]

@@johannesseyfried7933 Like, I understand wanting to see yourself in characters and in art. That's fine. It's that she takes it to this extreme where she seems unable to enjoy any character that doesn't fit in her narrow view of this pedestal lesbian relationship that makes me stop and go...huh.

[@johannesseyfried7933]

@@EvanWantsJam I think one of the reasons why I started to enjoy her videos less and less was her running gag of "Do you know what would make this story better? Lesbian Princesses." And, yeah, it was kinda funny the first three times, but it got really, really annoying after a while.

[@dmaid7190]

Eating Demi-Humans is still quite a bit morally ambiguous. Orcs in Dungeon Meshi are a demi-human race, they are people. A Tall-Man eating an Elf or an Orc would by definition not be cannibalism, but the consumption of other sentient creatures does leave a bad taste in some people's mouths (Pun entirely inteded). Obviously they are still monsters in the sense that they will eat you if you don't kill or scare them away, I do get that people like Laios would have less of an issue to eat them.

[@denpa_chan]

fair point! i considered only the monsters like dryads and mermen admittedly ^^;

[@dmaid7190]

@@denpa_chan And that's totally fair, the merfolk do show a level of sentience and sapience using tools and tactics but still at their core are ambush predators that will also eat you if you do not fight back. It's definitely something where different people will draw different lines, I personally go with Chillchuck and stay away from eating demi humans for ethical reasons. Dryads are also interesting as they are extensions of their host tree that mimic people. They are more clear cut monsters than demi human races and mostly their humanoid appearance that could make eating them feel awkward.

[@denpa_chan]

@@dmaid7190 so much nuance that i shouldve considered before writing it in aah!!! true about the dryads though, it was the quickest marcille got over humanoid appearances early on lolll not like she had much of a choice though

[@dmaid7190]

@@denpa_chan To be fair I'm sure it was only a minor point in Lily's video to demonize Laios, so you not taking the time to consider the moral compass of the main cast and reasons for eating or not eating some monsters is perfectly fine. You still did a great job on the video!

[@denpa_chan]

@@dmaid7190 thank you so much

[@hilotakenaka]

I mean the obvious reason as to why Lily Orchard's video was a bad faith criticism... was because it was made by Lily Orchard In all seriousness, I don't like Steven Universe in the slightest (especially the fanbase with how they almost bullied a fan into self-harm over artwork), but even _I_ hate her SU review. Hell, she somehow manages to come off as more angry about the show than the people who didn't like it solely because of the LGBT themes, especially during her "all fascists must die" ending rant. An ending rant caused, mind you, because Steven - a pacifist teenager - didn't want to kill the leader of the gems despite her crimes. EDIT: Also, watching a bit further into the video, I will have to correct you on some things; Tatsuya Endo doesn't actually hate SpyxFamily. That was a clickbait title from an article translating an interview. What actually happened was that he said he doesn't like making stereotypically handsome men in his stories, let alone making those men his protagonists. SpyXFamily essentially developed after being told his prior oneshot was really good and he was egged on into making the characters more generically handsome and attractive. That's why he doesn't feel "attached" to the characters; he's making the series following characters that don't follow his general design philosophy. As for the stuff about the manga having women there solely for sex appeal, that's... definitely not true, especially in the case of the manga. Yes you can argue that Yor is treated lesser than Loid and Anya, but those two were the forefront characters - Loid is the initial protagonist and Anya is the child he finds (which mirrors the aforementioned oneshot). However, Yor does have her own important arc and her friendships with Melinda Desmond and Camilla really help shine a light into the social workings of the setting and how civilians are coping with the post-war efforts. You could argue that Fiona is pretty one-note and fanservicey since her primary character trait is to just "be with Loid" but Tatsuya definitely seems to be trying to flesh her out more, similarly to how male characters like Frankie or Yuri start off one-note with their personality revolving around women (Frankie being a hopeless bachelor and Yuri thinking his sister is the greatest person alive) Of course, it's perfectly fine to dislike SpyXFamily for a plethora of reasons (as much as I like the manga, I will admit that there are times where chapters feel way too short for the amount of time that passes between releases, and yes early Yuri is really hard to stomach.) but you shouldn't fall into the trap of inserting random diatribes into videos like a lot of other video essayists because it can really take away from the point you're trying to make, especially if that point largely consists of "you didn't do full research."

[@WolffStaedtler]

The review was mostly just her hating on Laios, claiming Laios ruined the anime. In the video she made an odd autism/sociopathy scale and placed Laios at the most evil end, in between Leyley and Ultron.

[@connorjohnson8590]

Holy crap?? I couldn’t finish the whole video because of how much of a downer it was. I’ve never seen lily before, so if it weren’t for people like y’all I’d think the take was genuinely researched when it’s clearly not!

[@gregjayonnaise8314]

Even weirder is that she put her own freaking Star Wars OC near the top as one of the “good autistic characters”. You can’t make this shit up.

[@noot4041]

@@connorjohnson8590bro lily is like the most hated writer on the internet

[@firetarrasque4667]

She made a fucking WHAT

[@connorjohnson8590]

I'm curious now what was on the 'good' end?? I know the video is gone though so no pressure.

[@apuffball5754]

Also, on the Laios and dragon Falin scene, you gotta remember that he is seeing something that he has wished for himself. Of course he's not gonna be screaming, he's not gonna get gloomy, he sees someone going through what he wants and that makes him happy, but also distressed cause it's his sister.

[@sebastianfranasovic7005]

As someone who’s favorite Manga and Anime happens to be Dungeon Meshi, the criticism of Lily to this series feels like someone who hasn’t seen the series at all calling it lame by merely looking at a poster of it. Her understanding of every character is so surface level that it manages to be insulting, ignoring any semblance of subtlety within the story. I do not understand how she’s still in KZbin when every single thing she says about media manages to be wrong in one way or another, going as far as to promote hatred against the artists behind the works she criticizes.

[@denpa_chan]

very much agreed 💀the fact that everything she whined about was very easily disproven with a simple retrospective of the anime thus far or just recalling the manga was so embarrassing for her. very true about the subtlety as well.. her reducing the chars to being one dimensional was so telling of her reading of it. like she couldve just said she didnt like it and moved on 😭everyone is coming for her now. did NOT know ab the hatred of artists and stuff though whaaat how is she still online everything im learning ab her now is insane

[@sebastianfranasovic7005]

@@denpa_chan I don’t know if she said anything against Ryoko Kui, but I’m aware she was very hateful against the team behind Steven Universe. Her video criticizing the show is like, half the reason why SU is so hated these days by a lot of people, I can’t even joke about it because you can just see the timeline of events regarding online discussion about the topic.

[@denpa_chan]

@@sebastianfranasovic7005 thats so messed up 💀i'll watch the vids ive been seeing float around on her tonight because thats just twisted. love your pfp btw!!

[@sebastianfranasovic7005]

@@denpa_chan Oh, thank you! I’ve been using the same PFP for the past decade if not longer, to the point I can’t find the artist behind this artwork anymore. In any case, yours is very cute, and I liked the editing of the video!

[@denpa_chan]

@@sebastianfranasovic7005 thank you so much! my pfp is aoi from totono. if reverse image searching for your pfp hasnt worked thats such a shame its great art!!

[@Ghostrama13]

I'm convinced she "watched" the show through tiktoks and KZbin shorts

[@siskohwat473]

Lily Orchard try to generat a single good media take in entirety of your lifetime challenge.

[@denpa_chan]

impossible challenge for her.. love your samarie pfp btw :3

[@jabaited]

Girl Failure pfp, W

[@themechanic9974]

I feel like people consider her more controversial than she actually is

[@YellowMageGaming]

Fellow funger pfp spotted

[@LittleMissFoxy]

Terminally online people when a ship gets so popular they think it’s all the show is about only to find out it’s not and call it bad. Then again when has any of her takes and opinions ever been decent enough to not laugh at.

[@Lavellanrat]

It's crazy how she puts emphasis on that ship when dunegon meshi is. Quite openly romance less I think the only canonical romance we actually see is the 2 elderly gnomes being married lol

[@animatorofanimation128]

@@Lavellanrat Yeah Dungeon Meshi is the most non-romantic show I can think of. To the point where it's hard to tell if a scene was meant to have romantic connotations or not. Since everyone in the show are adults and not teenagers it gives it a more "real" and mature feeling which I appreciate for the themes the manga tackles later on

[@loserinasuit7880]

Porn addiction has done irreparable damage to media consumption.

[@cn2673]

This is what happens when people want to believe something as true so hard that they fall flat when they realize it isn't

[@sachacendra3187]

This manga was recommended to me by a friend that is especially dificult when it comes to manga/anime and fiction in general. He's especially intolerant towards sexism in mangas and animes and yet he loves it. The disdain of Lily Orchard towards the "tone shift" on the other hand just felt like pure - eurocentrism ? Like clearly the long introduction in DM is typical of eastern naration and the fact she missed it is to me a clear evidence of her closemindness.

[@Wolfgang8-Y]

Add to it that constant squinting is a commonly used trope in anime meant to convey a specific character archetype, but Lily blames that intentional artistic decision on... the laziness of a fictional character? When looking at art from another culture, an unwillingness to engage with different viewpoints starts to become straight up racism.

[@gristen]

​​​@@Wolfgang8-Ywhats more is that in the adventurer's bible its revealed that falin actually squints alot because she needs glasses, so even more than just being a japanese character trope she canonically has a reason to be drawn like that

[@mariaantonia-op8qc]

I watched lily orchard's video knowing it would be a pain to get though the whole thing...but I did do it. Honestly it was what I already expected, her take on the show and specially Laios was so petty and dishonest that I almost couldn't finish it, but the worst part of it all was going to the comments and seeing so many people say they were going to give it a chance and after that video they gave up MY GOD DID IT MAKE ME MAD, although if they are the type of people to agree with her and take her opinion as fact I guess they wouldn't like the show either way, still it was frustrating.

[@denpa_chan]

what was even more annoying for me was seeing those who recommended the series to her digressing and being like yeah it's actually kind of bad! like how spineless are you guys 💀

[@mariaantonia-op8qc]

@@denpa_chan yeah, there were even people saying they liked the show, but after the video they started hating it... Gosh. I'll never understand people who need "permission" to like stuff, they can't make their own interpretations of anything and need another person to tell them what is ok to like... And out of anyone's opinion they could have chosen to take as truth they choose LILY ORCHARD'S?! 😭

[@denpa_chan]

​@@mariaantonia-op8qc social media brainrot :/ ppl switch up opinions based on whatever someone with more followers says for validation all the time, esp in fandom spheres 😭like be serious.. and fr out of everyone to listen to why HER.....

[@nangke]

​@@mariaantonia-op8qcLily Orchard and Donald Trump are both Pied Pipers of the brain rotted

[@TomSketchit]

As someone who was a very unfortunately devoted fan of hers several years ago... yeah there's just something cult like about being around her. Something about her passion makes her seem very trustworthy and influential when you're younger and have trouble coming up with your own opinions like I was. Often made me feel shame for liking some of the things I enjoyed. I'm very glad I got out of that space, it was deeply toxic for me...

[@leonkelly2258]

The most unsurprising thing ever: lily orchard has a bad faith take on a piece of media. Can't wait to see what her "remake" is gonna be like lmao I need to read the manga so bad, I'm hoping this video spurs me forward to read it. Keep on dungeoning.✌️

[@denpa_chan]

it looks like shes planning on addressing the laios section of her video, which got the most backlash afaik.. the manga is soo good!! but season 2 is coming out right after season 1 finishes up, so you could savor the series that way ^.^

[@nangke]

I've heard it said that art is a mirror. If someone looks and sees only garbage, that's says more about them than what the art has to offer 😂

[@FaeQueenCory]

The manga is much better than the anime. They've cut so much out... All these little things... And they're unlikely to adapt any of the multiple omakes which add so much world building and little interactions that are just alluded to in the main story... Kui is one of the absolute best mangakas.

[@kostajovanovic3711]

​@@FaeQueenCoryrecently saw the episode where Failin is back (loved the laid-back "calm before storm" vibe and all the small character interactions in the comic so I wanted to experience it again in an animated form), and I was surprised by the little thing the episode omitted from the manga: Marcille letting her hair down before she starts the ritual which the omake reveals was a minor plot point later in the series, all the discussions between Laios and Marcille about the different bones, Senshi going into the dragon's mouth to retrieve Laios' leg, Marcille's inner thoughts after she sees Failin's messy hair, which explains her annoyed look at the end if the episode). The anime is great, but those little skips hurt...

[@connorjohnson8590]

@@denpa_chan IS IT??? Oh that’s so good!! I was worried they would take years to get it done, whew!

[@papercutsunset]

That is, of course, the central ethos of many of Lily Orchard's critiques. Her most infamous, those around Steven Universe, follow this same pattern of thinking, as have others in the years since. Like you said, she consistently ignores the actual text itself in favor of whatever she can twist toward the most outrage-- because, unfortunately, that's what Orchard and her content operate on: bad-faith critique and outrage. All this to say, these patterns of not engaging with and outright ignoring the text are nothing new on her part; it's just absolutely wild to see it applied here, to Dungeon Meshi, of all things.

[@Emperor-Quill]

Lily Orchass is the only creature on this planet who could make a bad faith interpretation on a book about how to not make bad faith interpretations.

[@chomper720]

Lily literally gave up on the show before they even introduced 5th main character! :

[@denpa_chan]

had to include goatsumi in the thumbnail for this reason 😼

[@chomper720]

@@denpa_chan I am not sure but if Lily would not even like her, she really have a bias against this show. UwU

[@cupduck7848]

its best if she drops it tbh. she makes her stuuupid takes everyone's problem and its so infuriating

[@tintedpalette653]

Knowing her, she’d hate Izutsumi too upon introduction. Which to some degree, would be valid since she’s introduced as pretty bratty and abrasive. But i just know Lily would have found the worst possible reasons to dislike her than most people would lol

[@chomper720]

@@tintedpalette653 I think she is the most adorable thing I have ever seen except maybe baby Catra from She-Ra! :3

[@franciscorui]

That spy x family quote is somewhat out of context. The author meant that before he made spyxfamily he didnt know what to make so he just made soemthing he thought would be popular.

[@CARBONATED_SO-DA]

.... people still care about THAT person's opinion?

[@denpa_chan]

i had no idea who she was until my friends showed me the video so i wanted to make sure she didnt even reupload the original 💀although my channel is probs too small to do anything LOL

[@zerox6x7]

There aren't many videos about DM besides reaction videos. And that video title attracted a lot of DM fans to click it without knowing what the video actually is.

[@bachtrinh8783]

@@zerox6x7 I think it is hard to write a review about Dunmeshi if you haven't read the manga Since the anime having constant mood swing which makes the plot becomes unpredictable So people would want to review season 1 with its full picture

[@pandabosch]

@@zerox6x7 I clicked it and it took me about 5 minutes to figure out who the youtuber was. I kept thinking how can these takes be this shit? Then I figured out she changed her channel name.

[@zeeb2190]

Im assuming its more so fun to bash their opinions, cuz like otherwise ignoring them is probably better

[@gn4rpz-the-c4t]

anything lily says is bad faith honestly. she couldn't even look at steven universe without calling its JEWISH CREATOR a nazi :/

[@softestshade7813]

I WAS GOING TO COMMENT THIS THANK YOU!!!

[@airplanes_aren.t_real]

JEWISH NON BINARY CREATOR THAT IS MARRIED TO A POC

[@skitterly]

I used to watch her videos in like middle school, but I stopped when I realized that her videos were so negative and always left me feeling bad and icky. She’s a woman of extremes and lacks a certain nuance. If you don’t do things just right than you are suddenly the worst writer imaginable and are working for the oppressors. It put me on edge as a young writer, especially as her rules were often contradictory and poorly explained. It made me afraid to create representation at all, which I don’t think is a good result. I don’t know if she has changed since then, though this video makes me believe she hasn’t, but from what I’ve seen I don’t think binging her videos is healthy.

[@denpa_chan]

definitely not-- the fact that she was comparing a beloved series to her own writing in order to make herself seem superior was shocking & it makes sm sense as to why that would make you hesitant to do anything that went against what she espoused as correct, especially since you were so young :( glad to hear that you escaped the grasps of her reductive criticisms!

[@tintedpalette653]

She has a particular strategy to her videos that she still does to this day, and that’s morality ultimatums. When she doesn’t have a good enough media analysis to convince you why you should agree with her, she dials it up to 11 and claims a strong moral shortcoming of the thing she doesn’t like. And that in order to be morally upright, you have to agree with her, otherwise you’re immoral and/or a hypocrite. It’s a manipulative type of persuasiveness, but it can be very powerful depending on the person saying them and the person hearing it. I hear time and time again of people who watched Lily as young teens who felt compelled to agree with her because they didn’t want to be seen as bad people, and took her critiques at face value (especially if they never watched the thing she is talking about). Lily has such a strong tone to her videos that she can exude a sense of authority or even credibility to the uninformed. But once you realize her strategy the rest of her videos fall apart.

[@skitterly]

@@tintedpalette653 yes exactly, and it’s actually representative of a general trend on the internet that’s been a around for a while now. We’ve created a culture in which people aren’t allowed to just dislike something, so instead they feel the need to make up a moral reason to defend themselves. People need to learn that the can just find something annoying or not their taste without it secretly being some super problematic thing.

[@kostajovanovic3711]

​@@tintedpalette653this is a great run down

[@kostajovanovic3711]

​@@skitterlyany video essayist you've seen doing this? Curiously asking.

[@spaceman7019]

was she expecting Laios to do something over dramatic at the sight of his sister being transformed into some abomination? "UwAAAAAAAAAAAAAAH OH NO... MY SISTER HAS BEEN CORRUPTED BY DARK FORCES BEYOND MY COMPREHENSION!!!" *breaks down into real tears*

[@wcs792]

He literally froze up and dropped his weapon when she seemed to recognize him as a chimera, but go off, Orchard. Also, oh boy if she didn't like that she is not gonna like how Laios ends up settling the whole Chimera Falin thing...

[@godomoths242]

Two years ago my aunt died and now im on the way to the beach with my friends? Man that tonal whiplash, I cant take my life serious. Like what's it gonna be?

[@renedemers8218]

It's very ironic that that Lily seems to only be watching DunMeshi for the fluffy lesbian bits, when I was basically only presented With "Senshi helps me eat" and "Farcille is a Ship that exists" for a while. It wasn't until discussions about whether eating demi-humans or the Red dragon Falin was eaten by that I got curious, since there seemed to be way more meat to it than people were talking about. I did some spoiler sniffing and then binged the manga and LOVED how deftly the core motif of meals and eating was used to build so many complex themes tied to it. But HONESTLY Dunmeshi is way more than solely a slice-of-life comedy, intersecting a bit with horror as explores human conditions.

[@admiralwaltz321]

Im convinced her favourite show is the equivalent of a glass of air

[@UltravioletNomad]

I'm 100% confident that media literacy is not dead with the greater public, its only dead within systems were hot takes and negative engagement are actively rewarded. I'm not saying that everyone who does bad faith takes are lying about their real opinions, but that these people who think they have an intellectual take when in reality they are circling ideas in their head and feel they can use the current pop culture as an excuse to force their opinions into the greater discussion. Rather than look for real examples of the things they are complaining about, they will see any tangential example and force its message to be anti regardless of context.

[@Fluffycakez5]

I watched Lily’s video then I realized why the hell would I watch anything made by Lily.

[@Ramsey276one]

Broken Clock Right Twice Daily And occasionally there's funny moments Also in Jimquisition

[@guardsmenedwin6213]

At least with me, she’s too easy to hate watch, it’s almost a game for me guessing all her takes with precision before it starts, with that video, I had around 90% success, more or less. She’s little more than a contrarian, a 1 dimensional “popular thing is bad” type of person.

[@PrincessCringe]

I didn't watch the video before it got taken down, but ever since I saw her little scoring card I've been rehearsing angry rants in my head at her so thank you so so much for making this video !! One thing that particularly bothered me was the idea that the bath scene was "fanservice". It was clearly written to be more intimate than "sexy", and I think the idea that writing scenes like that are inherently demeaning to women is very untrue. The point of the scene wasn't to be like "omg hot girls bathing together omg boobs >_

[@gaymiens]

lily orchard had beef with bg3 because the main characters werent racist enough. i dont think its possible for her to have good takes

[@phamdung3884]

Oh? I thought she like the game? Does she not?

[@Toolgirl64209]

The same BG3 where a main character possibly kills a human for his ethnicity? The same BG3 with Xenophobic Druids who go as far as hating their own kind? The same BG3 where half the cast of act 1 is spitting racial slurs every time a tiefling or drow breaths? The same BG3 who’s main plot is partially centered around slavery? That Baldur’s Gate 3

[@gaymiens]

@@Toolgirl64209 yep! her gripe was that there aren't any racial or gender restrictions on the romances. in previous baldur's gate games (which she excessively d rides during her video), choosing a certain race/gender for your protagonist will lock you out of romancing certain party members. lily is generally horrendously biphobic and was also upset that all the main cast were bisexual because she thought that cheapened their romances ????

[@gaymiens]

@@phamdung3884 at least in the video i saw, before she even played the game she was complaining about the party members being "obvious stereotypes" and was upset that they don't have gender/racial preferences for dating (like they did in previous baldur's gate games). generally she was like "new baldur's gate bad, old baldur's gate good!!!" the whole video

[@JayEyedWolf]

​@@gaymiens​ I wonder if Orchard watched verilybitchie's video on bisexuality in games and decided to butcher it to support her own weird takes. There IS something to be said on the subject of shallow, mechanics-only bi rep in games with romanceable NPCs, and a conversation to be had about how that topic can be navigated by developers-- but "actually, NPCs should not be bi, and unchangeable canon racism in your companions should be a permanent feature of the choose-your-own-adventure videogame" isn't so much a contribution to that conversation as it is a bafflingly odious call to return to greater social conservatism. It's worth noting I haven't played any Baldur's Gate games myself, so I don't know if the sexualities of the party members even qualify as the kind of "mechanics-only" sexualities verilybitchie discussed in their video, but Orchard's take does sound like a corrupted echo of the basic concept.

[@peppermintzi]

the pic alone irked me because her reasoning and scale is so…arbitrary? why would dunmeshi being episodic be considered a neutral trait? that doesn’t even need to be included because there’s nothing objectively wrong with it being episodic due to the plot and theme of the story. but of course she hates that too because she believes that stories about food are based on some kind of joke (don’t understand where that even correlates). complaints about the characters being archetypical as if she didn’t read the genre type of fantasy beforehand, complaints about the story being too simple, complaints about the story switching gears to tell a more mature story as “tonal dissonance”, what kind of story does she even want?? also laios being a negative when he doesn’t even do anything wrong just screams ableist on surface level, if not a joke. lily orchard when I catch you…

[@joshridinger3407]

like a lot of tumblr media critic types, she can only enjoy ham-fisted morality tales where everyone gets what they 'deserve' as immediately as possible and the narrator directly preaches to the audience. she wants everything to be the sjw equivalent of an ayn rand or cs lewis novel.

[@JayEyedWolf]

There's like, something of a reddit meme which has become a sort of anime lore tidbit in certain circles about how many anime put a lot more detail and animation budget into animating food than is necessarily shown in a standard frame of the characters or other parts of the show. Think of how Miyazaki films have really delicious-looking food while characters and fabrics are kept fairly simple in terms of detail and moving parts. This can make for some funny side-by-side comparison images, but it isn't universally true, and isn't even really a particularly cognizant commentary on anime. Specific foods-- especially things like rice balls and noodles which have a lot of small parts-- are a lot harder to abstract than a person or something simple like a t-shirt, so if effort isn't put in, food can easily be distracting-- either totally unrecognizable or comically cartoonish or just plain ugly. This is especially bad if the food is being used to establish characterization or set a mood-- if you're trying to demonstrate a character being a good chef or particularly fastidious, or trying to set a cozy mood, the food being ugly or ambiguous really damages the visual language. Compare recognizing a drawing as a fish fillet or specific type of noodle to something like hairstyle or someone's eyes and you can see how abstraction just doesn't work the same between them. But reddit has been making fun of this for like fifteen years at this point, so OBVIOUSLY any show focusing on the nigh-universal cultural staple of food MUST just be trying to cash in on the reddit joke... because it's "just food", so there's no way you could be trying to SAY something about food and its role in people's lives, right? 🙄

[@catloaff]

I haven't watched Dungeon Meshi but her Laios rant going around on Twitter just absolutely came off as ableist to me

[@owenyin3316]

just went to check out lily’s video because I was curious, she _removed the old video and made a new one full of spoilers with no spoiler warning_ to get back at people who criticized the old one…how I know this? She directly states it, in the comments. Which is full of her being an a-hole to people who even very slightly disagree with anything in or about the video. Wow. What a…person.

[@WhiteCresentKnight]

Lily just hates anime and I’m sure she wasn’t paying attention at all, as she was watching she was probably more concerned with forcing herself to watch it and make up stuff to complain about so she can make the video she has to make. Lilys current fans need to recognize that she’ll never give them genuine effort when they want to share anime they like. If it’s not exactly what she wants from media she doesn’t care.

[@Rottiedollheart]

For as much as she critisies the depiction of women She herself is downright creepily obsessed with lesbians to the point where its genuinely uncomfortable and flanderises women to a strange degree (not to mention *the accusations*) she's the archatypical yuri fan, really

[@megatennepster3833]

That was, weirdly enough, why before I found out she was a trans woman, I thought she was man obsessed with lesbians. Because it just... didn't feel like "transbian" behavior

[@comfyghost]

laios is the first time i've felt represented in a show, as in to a perfect degree, i relate to laios, and hearing her call him bad representation feels like she's saying i'm not autistic, and it just feels disgusting. where does she get the nerve to decide how people can feel represented.

[@BlazeMakesGames]

wow it really is kinda funny that she would see that Laios is a generic human fighter and not pick up at all that they might be playing with that trope a bit? lol. I mean right off the bat he immediately stands out as the weirdest member of the party due to his monster obsessions, and as such he ends up actually playing out more like a ranger since he's able to use that knowledge to help guide the team's actions.

[@JoseRodriguez-jn2ur]

It's legit so funny looking at her review chart cuz it's so obvious she saw the Farcille art and expected the show to be just THAT. Also her despising Laios is straight up ableist at this point like how do you see a boy who has a hard time connecting with others and loves monsters and not think he's autistic

[@bongislandicetea8100]

"boy" he's a 26 year old man, bro

[@JoseRodriguez-jn2ur]

@@bongislandicetea8100 He's MY boy

[@TiredMoonRabbit]

I agree with everything you have said here (minus calling SpyxFamily not that good in the first place, how dare you😢) lily just doesn't understand most pieces of media and it was really disappointing seeing people in the comment section genuinely taking her video and using it as a reason to not watch the show. I will also say that I don't agree about with what you said about the dub but thats just a difference in taste.

[@denpa_chan]

yeah sorry 😭i have a lot of issues with how endo writes his characters and handles the gags in sxf i fear but i already touched upon that in the vid. im more prone to enjoying series like galaxy angel or daily lives of high school boys when craving a slice of life >.< only recently found out about lily and seeing her post bad take after bad take is insane so im wondering if her current career is just outrage bait to get direct engagement with her videos... true, the dub is a matter of taste, im just very picky with dubs nowadays sadly. thank you so so much for watching! i really appreciate it!!

[@njcheddar]

"it was really disappointing seeing people in the comment section genuinely taking her video and using it as a reason to not watch the show." Yea! This part is actually what bothers me because if it's just a rage-bait video or someone having bad opinions for clicks, I wouldn't mind at all. It's just if she actually has influence on people's opinions that bothers me. But to be fair, maybe it's not too bad because it just shows that those people can't form their own thoughts and take whatever KZbinr they like said as gospel.

[@CinnamonBunss]

@@denpa_chan Wait, what's wrong with it? I only watched a few eps and thought it was alright

[@hafirenggayuda]

​@@CinnamonBunssnot really bad, just the plot progressing very slowly, almost nothing happen.

[@gristen]

​@@CinnamonBunssits just not that interesting for how much hype it got imo. like it had a strong premise and opening eps but then it just failed to deliver what it seemed to be promising. the characters are a bit bland and dont really develop and theres not really much that even happens besides set ups for jokes. in the end it was just a gag anime that wasnt anything more than just gags and waifu bait, which is fine if thats what youre looking for, but there's already been a million more shows with the same dynamics that have done it much better. its just that for some reason this one was the one that cemented itself in the public consciousness. i bet if it had aired 10 years ago nobody would've thought twice about it

[@OceanFragments]

I'm a bit thrown off by the brief stint into Spy family. Yes there is minor sexualization of women, but to a notably less degree than typical anime, and it usually revolves around the classic spy-story trope of the femme fatale, who utilizes that very appeal as a weapon. Not to mention loid himself is pretty sexualized in the opposite manner, going so far as to having other women constantly going on about what a piece of manmeat he is without understanding a thing about him or what he's gone through. As for the minors thing... maybe I wasn't paying attention, but I don't recall anything that stood out in the series, aside from Anya just being silly the way kids are. Perhaps I missed some weirdly explicit scenes?? Yor may not be the best utilized female role I've ever seen in anime, but she's also far from the most aggregious. I feel like in a video citing a lack of appreciating the context and source tropes a story is pulling from, its a tiny bit hypocritical to be as reductive about her as the writer was. As for the brother thing, yeah I got nothing. And the internet is not something an author can control, just look at "the amazing digital circus." That's a cultural issue.

[@bbbees4479]

it's funny she says that when her profile picture is a character from an eroge visual novel

[@julius-ceasar]

right?? where is that hatred coming from spy x family is just cute to me 😭 obviously having children characters will have… unfortunate consequences because there’s creeps on the internet… but the author ain’t sexualizing them AT ALL, unlike dragon maid or made in abyss for example. the incest jokes are common in anime so i’m at this point neutralized to it lol, and yor’s writing isn’t bad imo, it is tropey tho

[@Skywolfhd20]

>loly orchid >bad faith >shocked pikachu.jpg

[@hermescarraro3393]

Loli orchard lmao😂

[@Skywolfhd20]

@@hermescarraro3393 i didn't notice the typo until you pointed it out, and now i feel weird about changing it

[@rullocompressore1550]

Her opinions are so deranged that I'm curious what would happen if she watches Gurren Lagann, my bet is that she'll melt after the first episode.

[@corbanbausch9049]

@@rullocompressore1550 or something like Attack on Titan

[@ladysuperherolove]

I really enjoyed this rebuttal, and 100% agree with you but your words on Spy x Family are pretty bad faith too and It's far from my fave, friggin' hate Yuri (the man), it's very flawed, but blaming the series for 4-chans nasty memes is a bizarre leap. 4chans gonna 4chan. Also I don't know if you fully read the interview, but saying Endo was "whining' is kind of insensitive to what manga artists have to go through. Essentially what he said is a lot of his manga had gotten canceled prematurely (common occurrence in shonen mags they're ruthless) and he felt like a failure so he decided to make something with broad appeal, and now that it's gotten so big he feels a lot of pressure and is constantly tired. This is common for a lot of mangaka. They're made to work at a ridiculous rate and often ruin their health, they're forced to drag out a series when it's successful (it's clear Spyfam's concept was good for maybe 50 chapters and now Endo has to spin his wheels which must be frustrating). It's the kind of sleepless grind Dunmeshi criticizes. Yor did get an arc in the second season, though I agree she's underutilized. Also the dub is fine. Got some off moments but the va's clearly care about the series. While they're undoubtedly talented, a lot of times Japanese va's/seiyuu sound better to us because it's not our first language but if it was we'd would probably be just as easy to find shortcomings. Laios' English va is autistic, and I think the pain in the fight with Shuro really comes across in the dub, as he said he related heavily to that moment.

[@killickan]

This is a very good video and a good dissection of both the early episodes and the review itself! I love the content itself, but to bring one small criticism, the audio balance could be a bit better. It's leaning heavily on my left ear in an odd way. That aside, very well put-together!

[@denpa_chan]

tysm for the feedback!! my boyfriend said the same this morning, i made the fatal mistake of editing without headphones 😭will definitely keep this in mind for the future!! thank you for watching and tolerating the noise issue

[@sterthester736]

Honestly coming from someone who used to watch her content, Lily Orchard has the worst takes on everything. Her coverage on Steven Universe alone proved she's happy to interpret everything in the worst way possible, including going out of her way to try and frame the show's creator as a horrible person for no reason. But given everything else that's also come out about Lily, her presenting her bad faith takes as if they're factual critiques is the least of her issues. Also I've not watched Dungeon Meshi before. This has now made me want to watch it.

[@monster-enthusiast]

I almost watched her video until I saw who made it and I was like "oh hell no." So I paused it and read some comments and they were a lot of "ya know, I hadn't thought of it, but yeah, it IS bad." Double hell no. I'm convinced she just wants people to dislike things. I'm not even very invested in the show but I adore Ryoko Kui's character designs and love Laios as a character. Like she doesn't analyze. She just assumes things and then convinces her audience that that's the true intentions of the author. Absolute sham.

[@julius-ceasar]

i bet she deleted all the comments disagreeing with her lmao, she had so much controversy around her, even some alleged emotional abuse if i remember correctly too, just a whole insane person lmao

[@zenkozenko4989]

You should not, in fact take advice or any sentient thought from Lily "Anything you write means you want to do that and there is no such thing as vicarious writing also, I wrote a fanfiction longer than The Fucking Silmarillion containing rape, abuse, child abuse and child rape while also sexually abusing (at the time) underage sister while *I* was an adult" Orchard.

[@Coolguysup]

Laios is the best autistic representation I have ever seen in a show/anime. It’s ridiculous that Lilly would call him a psychopath, when the anime itself shows us he cares for his sister but shows it differently because of his neurodivergence(the flashback where his parents introduce him to his sister).

[@whoevencares123]

I'm scared to even think about what her opinion on Frieren might be😭

[@saragos1216]

>Lily Orchad gives bad faith criticism No way dude that's crazy

[@hannahneloms1143]

thank you for making this Lily is so annoying

[@denpa_chan]

💀lolll been diving further into her other controversies because of this and it's astonishing that she just keeps poking the bear and receiving backlash

[@mmoray4372]

chuck nation

[@Murmarine]

Chucklefuck my beloved

[@masquerade_txt]

thank god for watching bad faith videos getting disassembled from the comfort of a channel who clearly Actually understands the media they're discussing😭this is a really well articulated response!!

[@face4666]

Lily just jealous of my boy Laio's autistic swag

[@speevtheteev]

Thank you sm for making this video... My friend showed me the screenshot of her F rating for the show, and I was shocked someone could fail to understand Dungeon Meshi that badly >:( I didn't watch the video because I find the way she shits on stuff rlly hard to watch... especially if its a show I love this much. You're stronger than me for sitting through that vid!!

[@denpa_chan]

thank you so much for watching.. i did my time in the trenches for the dunmenshiheads!!!

[@speevtheteev]

@@denpa_chan i salute your sacrifice..

[@mayajade6198]

Wait. You're telling me that the lady who wrote _Stockholm_ was comparing _Fucking Dungeon Meshi_ to her own writing??? Absolutely deranged.

[@XShrike0]

Lily's review felt like they watched the first one or two episodes and then skipped to when Fallin was back. Outside of just not paying attention, I don't know how they could develop their conclusions. Particularly their hatred of Laios and claiming he doesn't care about anything except monsters. From what I am hearing about them, it won't surprise me if they double down on their conclusions in their video remake.

[@bachtrinh8783]

Laois doesn't care about Falin literally makes no sense He made the beeline right back to the dungeon the moment he realized his sister is not here, same with the encounter of the mad mage He is the one who started the operation of saving Falin in the first place He stands up to Marcille, he considered Senshi's and Chilchuck feeling's about going back His love for monster serves a huge asset for them making this far In ep 12, he was afraid and upset at Falin, fearing she might be gone again

[@Birdyboys]

Lily sucks but you don’t have to avoid using her pronouns

[@shackleton1839]

I like the use of the heavily-pixelated show in the background.

[@mercuryk1527]

i had no clue who lily orchard was until i got her dungeon meshi video recommended to me. i didn’t watch it all the way through because it just left a bad taste in my mouth. knowing that it’s deleted, i really do wish i finished watching it because i only had a couple minutes left on it. anyway i thought this was a great response!

[@denpa_chan]

thank you so much!!! you closed it out before she went on her super ableist rant so be glad you didnt endure it loll 🙏

[@themechanic9974]

She took it down and re-edited it it was back up 2 days later.

[@annesavisaboochuy]

saying that laios is an achetype is CRAZY he is a brilliant depiction of an autistic person

[@ajjjzachiel44]

Calling Laois sociopathic pissed me off so much I immediately stopped watching her video. People have said the same thing about me (I’m autistic) because of the way I’m interested in dissection and anatomy even though I cry if I accidentally step on my cat’s tail. It’s shown that Laois is actually very respectful of people if he knows where their boundaries lay it’s just that they have to be explicitly laid out to him. Also him being unempithtic is explicitly framed in the story to be a misunderstanding from the pov of other characters who misread his intentions and actions when in reality Laois cares very much about his friends and family. Lily has 0 media literacy.

[@Dark_Peace]

Alternate title: "Lily Orchards doesn't understand Dungeon Meshi" (It's kind of a long running trend to title "Lily Orchards doesn't understand x")

[@Zistheone2]

As someone who’s heard Lily's opinions on Steven Universe *many* times, I'm not surprised she feels the same way about Dungeon Meshi since she tends to hate shows that are 1/2 episodic & 1/2 serialized

[@Jokexuz]

If Lily Orchard doesn't like something odds are it's a modern classic

[@TheLordMillenium]

I pretty seriously disagree with the criticisms of Spy x Family in this video, but i agree with the rest.

[@lizard9876]

Wonderful video, always great to see bad faith criticism called out and refuted, especially Lily's

[@denpa_chan]

thank you so much for watching :3

[@Pensushets]

Lily Orchard having a terrible take is like the sky being blue

[@peppermintzi]

wait until lily orchard finds out about labru