An Informal Response to Lily Orchard's New Dungeon Meshi Video

[@denpa_chan]

SPOILER WARNING: lily orchard spoiled the series unprompted and i was unaware of this since this was a live reaction! i tried to not say much but she pretty much spoiled the whole thing with no consideration for her viewers. via @kiv9880 spoilers are at these timestamps: 17:03 has the first appearance of a future manga panel that is kind of a big deal i'll put the other timestamps, but i'd recomend treating the video as a podcast if you dont want to end up seeing this spoiler( manga flashes: 27:13 - 28:00 , 30:46 - 31:06 , 45:01) 23:20 till 25:00 spoils the manga ending, about 27:17 until 28:17 there is talk about one future arc nothing heavy tho, if you dont know what is going on you wont pick up on real spoilers, 45:00 till 45:05 has a spoiler about falin NOTE: i was just made aware that she changed the thumbnail and title of her video to "first impressions" and the video is still the same length and riddled with spoilers!

[@BelBelle468]

Thanks for doing this!! I hadn’t finished watching the anime so I was holding off on the vid. I’ll finish it and the manga before watching, so thank you for this!!

[@josepass2563]

Wow, just spoiling the series is such a rat move (I've read the manga already but still). Nice of you to put some warnings tho!

[@keeganhand1915]

Yay, I was watching the new video blind and just got flash banged. I love no warning or consideration or her own viewers.😎

[@roberthsucre9837]

I never watch that person before. I liked you previous response but decided to watch the one you are responding before watching this new one. The moment she spoiled the manga it felt like shit.

[@wiimusic5671]

​@@josepass2563 ok

[@user-fs2io2dc6w]

The fact that she hints at incest when talking about Laios and Falins relationship kind of makes me sick

[@jondoe7036]

Understandable, but if you know what Lily is about, it's not the least bit suprising unfortunately...

[@hylianevalink]

Lily will LITERALLY shove incest into anything she talks about, it's insane

[@KhyannArts]

i'd trust lily having a say on sibling relationships as much as i'd trust a targaryen or cersei lanister

[@radiyostatic]

the MOMENT the anime started getting popular i had to blacklist "toudencest" on tumblr 🤢🤢🤢

[@LadyAsteria58]

@@KhyannArts Not surprised when she came out and said her favorite BG character was Imoen. I doubt she ever played without the incest mod.

[@imaginarylivingbody7154]

It’s so funny how she just… ignores Kabru. One of the most important characters outside of the main adventuring party, a foil to Laois, a character with a well-realized backstory/motivation/arc. For someone who complains about blonde white male characters she is certainly doing her best to ignore the most important character of color in the show outside of Izutsumi. AND SHE DOESN’T EVEN MENTION IZUTSUMI EITHER???

[@connorjohnson8590]

Or Senshi. Or the food.

[@connorjohnson8590]

@@itme5978 She also forgot Senshi, Itzumi, the food, and the setting. She only talked about the one time with the Lion and that was just to further bash on Laios.

[@SaiScribbles]

Because she didn't watch the entire show, its painfully obvious.

[@hafirenggayuda]

She seems having this tunnel vision syndrome. She only want to hate Laios and focusing on finding his fault, while pretty much ignore other characters story

[@MegaGrip13]

she probably didn't watch until the end and doesnt even know Izutsumi exists

[@iferlyf8172]

The irony of her calling anime fans pedos and her having written a MLP pedo fic

[@mom3207]

projection

[@lincolny2220]

some imax-level projection right there

[@celtickawaii57]

Her admitting her fans rec'd her a siscon show in earnest was really *telling*. Weebs generally don't recommend siscon even to other weebs unless they're certain it's someone who wants to watch incest. So your weeb fans rec'd you, a non-weeb, siscon, they probably thought you're into siscon. Just saying.

[@jondoe7036]

Lily is kinda notorious for being seemingly quilty of basically every gross thing she's ever accused someone else about. She is an impressively vile person.

[@Kibbitizzzz]

Man its almost incredible how she is just a cumulation of the idea of a bad but confusing character. Is she evil yes that is obvious, but why is she now that’s what’s confusing part. Like how did she both arrive at the position where she identifies how a lot of anime is basically just Lolicon pedobait but also write just a horrific piece of essentially that on super steroids.

[@calliepancakes]

"like stepping on a wasps nest", says the woman who covered her hands in honey and proceeded to punch and vigorously shake said nest

[@YoungNanner]

You can tell shes so so soooo mad about people calling her out for not qctually paying any attention to the show by the fact that shes now added "abusive fanbase" to the negatives

[@celtickawaii57]

There's wacking the proverbial hornet's nest, and then there's going deep in the woods and climbing a tree to wack the nest and then complaining about your broken leg and multiple stings.

[@animeotaku307]

@@celtickawaii57And then, instead of going “maybe I should stop hitting this hornets’ nest,” continuing to whack away at the hornets’ nest while screaming at the hornets for being stupid.

[@kamikazelemming1552]

@@animeotaku307 And she's still whacking that nest, because the title of the video has once again been changed. Now it's "Delicious in Dungeon is Kinda Crap."

[@Riderbooker]

Lily seems to love hurling stones from her glass fortress when there's a dozen trebuchets parked outside it.

[@Riderbooker]

also have no idea how she holds her own work up as the golden standard above all else with the subject matter she just loves to insert into it.

[@animeotaku307]

@@RiderbookerMaybe it’s just me, but I have a hard time taking someone seriously when they use their own work almost exclusively as examples to look up to. It feels like they’re just tooting their own horns.

[@sachacendra3187]

My god the internalised ableism of Lily is just unbearable to watch. Under her worldview autistic people just need to mask 100% of the time. Like if Laios don't exactly express worry in a typical way he's not worried, if Laios doesn't take up on cues it's because he's being an asshole etc. etc. and then she has the audacity to say the bullying characters endure in TBBT is character checking themselves while failing to check on their worst behavior like their sexism. Oh god, I literally just can't. Damn and I'm with you 100% on never watching Lily's videos ever again. Watching her videos jusz put me in such rage almost to a point of shock state. I should really put off this old toxic youtube sceptic attitude "to listen to all sides", oh well.

[@sam7559]

Yes, as an autistic person the goal is supposed to be learning how to socialize and be a social creature. You can't just lean on being autistic as a defense for being an asshole who constantly violates social expectations.

[@x-xPhobia]

Her expectation of autistic people reminds me a lot of my ex who had BPD(not to put everyone with BPD in the same bucket because like 99.9 percent aren't beyond help lol) like if your care isn't IMMEDIATELY apparent.... You hate them, you do not love them. You are awful. It made me hate myself because it was so obviously untrue and I wondered what was so wrong with me.... Like I am okay with myself now. It just took awhile

[@sam7559]

@x-xPhobia to be fair if a person requires a person with a more external display of affection and informs you about it, you're either supposed to adjust your behavior or if not then you're not suited for each other and should find different partners

[@PlatinumAltaria]

Normal reaction to Laios: "omg what a doof, hope he gets to see cool monsters though." Deranged reaction to Laios: "This man is wanted in 48 states. This man killed my family with an axe and then ATE her."

[@_hist]

@@sam7559 While this is true, it's used as a straw-man in Lily's video. Laios largely hasn't actually taken any actions that directly hurt others that can be attributed to his infatuation or his divergent thought process. While yes, expressing certain thoughts in the wrong context can be hurtful, it is much, much lower on the totem pole of heinous actions that someone who is neurodivergent could take. Of which in good company, can just be talked out.

[@jacobkuechenmeister9350]

When their mom was pregnant with falin and laios was 3, his parents tried to explain that he was going to be a big brother. At that age, he already wasnt sociallizing in the same way they expected, and they thought he just didnt understand, but he imediatly went and told all of the animals. I feel like to be isolated like that from such a young age is evidence supporting him habing autism (as opposed to being isolated leading to not socializing 'normally')

[@nompuehuenu]

omg that one comic was so sweet, he tip toed his way out to tell all the animals he had a little sister whose name is falin and that he’s a big brother now! it was so cute and i love how he still looks pretty inexpressive even if he’s happy because,, same, at a young age some autistic people like me and him still cannot emote properly with our faces (i still struggle with that). this is also something i really love about laios, whenever he’s silent, talking normally or thinking of something he looks so inexpressive and serious but when he’s talking about what he likes he brightens up and all of his enthusiasm bubbles out and he yaps and yaps and it’s such a funny contrast to how he is perceived at first. literally me

[@davidegaruti2582]

Ok my main criticism about the laios autism stance is , I don't think their society would have autism as a discussion , Laiso behavior and actions are fine and are regular human behaviors , My main tought is that lais may have been described as "spirited" in the medival esque society laios lives in ... Spirited being a catch all term for neurodivergence back then ... Naturally dm isn't a documentary , but yeah i think the author saying "i didn't have anything in mind when writing laios , any interpretation is valid" Sort of confirme it in my eyes : The author took inspiration from life and we are relating to it as parts of life ... Also i may have watched mob100 psycho before dungeon meshi so like my taste buds may be nummed afther gazing upon the grandieur ONE delivers ...

[@yeye7937]

The idea that Lily Orchard still has an audience is so funny. Like yeah we'll listen to a lady who can only stomach shows made for babies, she is definitely fit to analyze shows with nuance and adult themes lol.

[@jordannetwork9046]

She's Trans onision everyone hates them yet they have fans

[@glad16252]

You're forgetting we live in a world where some of the most horrid people out there have an audience who enjoy them. Though to give them credit, most don't have allegations of sibling troubles when they were 10 sooooooo

[@keeratkahlon9035]

Lily can't even handle nuance IN shows made for children (she hates toh for having a *checks notes* white boy with religious trauma. And also Rebecca Sugar might as well have a top floor luxury apartment in Lily's brain with how much she loves bringing up su to hate on it). I am 80% sure and media with more complex nuanced adult themes would actually kill her. She would not survive something like The Magnus Archives or Castlevania or Breaking Bad (just few of the examples I can think of right now). And many of the classic literature would completely obliterate her.

[@TheAdarkerglow]

she keeps an echo chamber around herself and slanders/ostracizes anyone who says a word against her. And targets kids.

[@rosenrot234]

She can't even understand steven universe

[@radiophobia1974]

Can she talk about anything other than hating laios??? Senshi & Chilchuck getting brushed to the side and then Kabru and Izutsumi getting FULLY ignored is so bizarre, they're all integral to the story and the messaging. It's not like Ryoko Kui randomly threw any old character at the wall for the hell of it. The fact she just looks the other way shows how little she actually paid attention. :I

[@Barakon]

She’s too focused on being against autistic people to really focus on the story or supporting cast.

[@christopheryoung935]

Who, THE FUCK, out here saying Laios is an acquired taste? My boy? My precious baby boy!? An aquired taste!?

[@apersonontheinternet6018]

His autism is to powerful 😔

[@animeotaku307]

As soon as he talked about being fascinated with monsters and wanting to know what they taste like, I knew I was in for the long haul.

[@patron8597]

Spoilers Well, I guess someone near the manga's end did. But then found out he's too much of a mouth full.

[@yukioslefteye]

So real, her take comparing laios to fuckinf bojack horseman is crazy

[@Pinkywinkykinky]

Everyone needs a lil' Laios in their lives

[@StonetheDestroyer42]

I actually love Haas's performance as Laios. He's shifting between modes, and his urgent mode is stoic. It matches the character acting in the animation (and in the manga panels), and likely reflects his history as a hunter and soldier.

[@marinesnake8641]

I will fight tooth and nail that the dub is great, though I will accept that Emily Rudd's voice acting (sometimes) doesn't work for some lines and scenes (Although she is growing on me more and more)

[@StonetheDestroyer42]

@@marinesnake8641 I've liked her performance from the start, honestly. I think something about the performative soft and airy voice she usually speaks with giving way to her more primal, rough voice when she's upset is great character acting, and fits the way she's written really well.

[@ryenguy]

@@marinesnake8641 i've been watching the dub instead of the sub and marcille's english va gets really grating to listen to in certain areas. especially when other va's like falin are really giving it their all in a dramatic scene. it makes marcille seem really blasé about it.

[@youraftermyrobotbee]

​@@StonetheDestroyer42 Feel how u wanna about dub Marcille but you gotta admit "wOAH HEY" is iconic

[@Shinntoku]

Yeah I've been loving the dub, the cast is so good. I mean, Shinji as Chilchuck? Brilliant casting.

[@jakesimpson3373]

The entire scene with the Kelpie disproves any idea that Laois doesn’t care about humanity. He loves monsters and thinks they’re cool, but he also understands them in ways most people don’t, he knows that they’re driven to kill humans by something deep within them, so he immediately suggests killing it even though he thinks its very cool because he knows it is just going to try to kill them. The way he talks about kensuke during and after the fight with the dragon also shows this. Its in such stark contrast with how he usually acts involving them that it shows just how much he cares about humanity beneath his own special interests when it matters. And also calling this a slice of life is like calling NGE a slice of life. Like sure the beginning is vaguely episodic but the rest of the series is very plot driven. The genre is more like cooking/ comedy with action and horror elements. The plot exists to to push the characters forward and give them an excuse to cook more monsters. Thats why *spoilers* basically every conclusion in the series from defeating the final villain, defeating falin, and restoring her to normal all revolve around cooking and eating, along with like a basically everything else from the way they describe souls to one of the main points being about eating healthy and living a balanced life. It kind of impressive someone can misinterpret a series so much. Also Lily isn’t as creative as she thinks, if she really wants an elf girl with a sword she should just watch record of lodoss war

[@imaginarylivingbody7154]

It’s strange because these complexities of Laios’s character aren’t exactly subtle. A lot of his actions throughout the story come from a care of his friends and loved ones. Immediately snapping Chilchuck out of the siren’s trance. The kelpie thing. Saving Marcille from her nightmare. Hell the first thing he does in the story proper is plan to go down into the dungeon with NO PREPARATION because he wants to rescue his sister. Like how did she miss these things? Was she not paying attention?

[@deltap6967]

That's really funny because I'm in the process of watching Record of Lodoss War right now

[@everforward5561]

He's like a naturalist. He loves what he studies, but he also knows that he has to respect it or it'll kill him.

[@dantorio367]

in both videos she's mde the complaint that no one cares about a. rescuing Fallin and b.eating monsters except for Marcille like it's this big pothole or gap in the world's logic, and for both instances she forgets to mention that: 1. senshi is new so he doesn't know much about Fallin, Chilchuck does care he is just bad showing his emotions to people (an important part of his character), Laois' worry is either internal or expressed differently then most people 2. eating monsters is something Chilchuck's culture has and he very clearly has boundaries and apprehensions still, Senshi's been COOKING monsters for a long time and this is Laios' fixation

[@dantorio367]

also Lily seems to forget that Food in dungeon Meshi is a very important theme in the story. food being the idea of power, ownership, and living which I wish I could get into but that is big spoilers

[@denpa_chan]

yup! i actually talked about these points in my initial response since theyre so apparent but clearly she watched and read the series with her eyes closed :/ as for your second comment, very true!! but like another commenter said, she refuses to engage with dunmeshi or any media she reviews in an analytical way, and prefers to summarize them in a bullet points and opinion way, which really waters everything down

[@imaginarylivingbody7154]

It’s so weird seeing people complain that the party is “taking their time” and “leisurely eating monsters” because everything in the story suggests otherwise. I believe it is mentioned in universe that Laios’s party descended the dungeon incredibly quickly compared to other parties, the only other one who came close was Toshiro’s party who didn’t even eat. Them eating well is also important due to them losing against the dragon BECAUSE they were hungry, which is said in the first five minutes. I might be misremembering but I believe that they weren’t in a frantic rush because they thought that the dragon would be sleeping after eating a meal, which slows its digestion time. They were shocked that the dragon was up and moving, implying that it wasn’t normal behavior which is true because it seems it was only moving due to Thistle’s orders.

[@mothmanafterdark5924]

​@@imaginarylivingbody7154 exactly. The red dragon, after having a meal was estimated to sleep for (iirc) 4 months. Even with that info in the teams back pocket they still blitzed through the dungeon

[@minnion2871]

@@imaginarylivingbody7154 Isn't the whole point of them eating monsters in the first place is because it's faster than going back to town for supplies?

[@unlimon6382]

I don't even understand how she implies Hunter from The Owl House is a character that bothers her because "he didn't learn his lesson"??? What lesson??? He is not a character with twisted morals that needs to be redeemed and learn about empathy. He is a very empathetic character from the get go who needs to be exposed to the real world and realise that the empathy he already had was not bad to begin with. He literally was punished for being empathetic and for simple normal mistakes for adults, let alone children. He was raised as a tool by the only person he believed loved him, a seemingly sick man that he had to provide aid to and a powerful emperor he had to serve. He was terrified of disobeying precisely because of his empathy towards belos and him guiltripping him into doing what he wants and also because of his phisical threats of violence and authority. With how everyone was around me and with how he had no friends, he had no reason to believe he was in the right for feeling how he felt. In an audio he was literally baffled when his bird shared a fruit with him 💀. Hunter did bad things, but she talks about him like he needs to be punished when he didn't make any conscious bad decission, constantly regretted his "good" choices and even messed up some missions because he just felt so bad about what he was doing. Then he had to go "home to just felt guilty and scared because he was doing things that would hurt him if he was found out or that he thought were a betrayal on his parentsl figure he thought he owee his life to. Genuinely, even if he had had a choice or was aware he had it he could have, what? Gotten killed by belos or by someone else? Escape and be hunted down or, again, live in a world he thought was liyerañly the same that is fundamentally magical with no magic and no way of living like already happened? He literally ended up hiding in a highschool theatre 💀. Also, are we gonna ignore that he's a pet version of Belos's brother who he literally killed made only for him to keep projecting his past grudges on over and over, so he would have killed him for whateverbs because belos made him with his betrayal already in mind like a self-fulfilling prophecy? Imagine being raised as essentially fancy cattle marked for slaughter without even knowing it but still absorbing that notion.

[@jonelrobinson582]

Exactly! And if that isn’t enough, she said that Hunter should have know that Belos was abusive, which is disgusting!

[@stephentaylor356]

Yeah her take on that is frightening victim blaming...like someone who completely lacks empathy for her fellow human being.

[@SpaceHeggo]

@@jonelrobinson582She honestly said that? How can someone be so stupid.

[@iannordin5250]

From what I can gather Lily's perspective on characters is literally "if I don't gel with them they are bad and should be punished." Like just look at how she interpreted Laois' curse. She genuinely believes that his battle with the lion and the ending of his character is the story *punishing* him for being an asshole, when it's really a parable of the MC defeating the physical and spiritual manifestation of his personal passions and drive to save both his loved ones and help the society that rejected him.

[@bethanybrookes8479]

On falin being turned into a monster: I can say, without a doubt, if my brother got turned into a horrific cephalopod amalgamation with the super hard spirally shells and depth range of the nautilus, the super mobility of octopus, fantastic eyesight of the coleoids (specifically the cuttlefish), the camouflage capabilities of the cuttlefish and octopus, the processing power of the octopus (these little guys are legitimately more capable of multitasking than humans. They may not be as obviously intelligent as us, but if you combined a human's capacity to actually collect, recall and build on info for more than 4 years with the octopuses nine separate simultaneous trains of thought they would be near unstoppoble) and the flight capabilities and speed of the flying squid, my though process would mirror laios's initial reaction of horror then a slight bit of jealous awe because, yes, that is a bit greedy, you can't have all that without the drawbacks it's just not fair. And maybe I would also be a bit jealous because maybe I also wanna be a silly little squid sometimes. Laios's thought process is fully understandable to me, as an autistic person. I cannot controll it, and neither can laios. And I won't stand for being told I'm bad for my thoughts. I've already gone through that whole song and dance of trying to prove to myself that I am not represented by my intrusive thoughts and I do not wanna see someone acting like we, as people are represented by the connections our brains make without our input.

[@Thistlespawn]

I love this comment. You're 300% right and you put this sentiment into words better than I ever could.

[@o0bookwyrmknight0o]

You are the Laios of cephalopods, and I support you 🐙 🦑

[@wadespencer3623]

@@o0bookwyrmknight0o Which is a niche that needed to be filled, cause cephalopods are the only animals Laios DOESN'T like.

[@stardoogalaxie9314]

Fr!! My sister turned into an animal my reaction: 1. My Sister!!! Oh No!! Nonono 2. She's a cat now.... i like cats... they're cute and they sleep all day....... no fair..... i wanna be a cat..... 3. I don't think she'd want to be a cat, but damn if I were her I'd do everything in my power to keep myself from being turned back

[@kiv9880]

Exactly, even aplying it to irl situations that are harmfull but not lethal there are times you envy someones misery. My brother broke his leg once and he got a minecraft leg cast(my sister drew various mobs and a big creeper just by his knee), i was so jealous because i thought it was the coolest thing ever, does that mean i wanted my brother to suffer and have his leg broken/not heal? No! But when the bad situation is already there and a interesting thing hapend because of it you kinda just wish you could also have said thing lol I totally get Laios in this moment, also loved the info thank you ❤

[@meganlouise978]

only a good 20 minutes in but hearing lily orchard reference bojack horseman opened my eyes to a new fear. i do NOT want to know what insane takes she has about a show like that. i admire how level-headed you are through all of this, i think i'd be much less calm. EDIT: the woman spent an entire video being egregiously ableist and was surprised when people clocked her for it. this is crazy.

[@jtlego1]

Had that exact same reaction when I heard/saw her mention LISA: The Painful on Tumblr. Like Jeezus Christ, if her opinion on children's media is awful, I'd hate to see what her takes on serious media like Bojack Horseman and LISA are.

[@SiRenfield]

Well I mean one of her infamous writing tips was her railing against the existence of dramedies so there’s one clue. But even ignoring that…yup that certainly keeps me up at night, especially considering her opinions on how to handle abuse/what constitutes an abuser. Like I get the feeling that she STILL wouldn’t be satisfied with the ending despite BoJack getting pretty just consequences

[@LatterDayPup]

It’s quite fitting that Lily only seems to like children’s shows because she has a kindergarten level understanding of tone and character writing.

[@i.cs.z]

She doesn't even like children's shows. This is the woman who practically built a carrier on misunderstanding Steven Universe.

[@ranchustars3050]

not exactly, her steven universe videos + didnt she once say some crazy thing comparing an owl house ship to racism or something?

[@ziggymoondust2281]

It's also because she LOVES CHILDREN

[@Kris-wo4pj]

@@ranchustars3050 yes apparently the little white boy who was created to be a literal slave was bad and undid 100 yrs of civil rights for black people.

[@saladcaesar7716]

Even children shows, she hates. She slandered MLP for exploring equestria instead of sticking in ponyville.

[@Lionfrog13]

Actually dungeon meshi’s genre is food. There’s no tonal issues if you accept that the entire series is about eating. That’s it. It is a treatise on what eating is and what function it has.

[@jesustyronechrist2330]

But... Just because it's in a certain genre, that doesn't really make the tonal issue criticism as null. That makes no sense. "If you accept", you can accept dogshit to be chocolate, doesn't invalidate that it's still shit. I think the words you want to use there is "willingly ignore". Like sure, Masterchef hops from a super sad backstory and big dreams to open their own restaurants to "I just wanna cook shrimp", but that's reality TV slob.

[@_averageenjoyer_]

Fax. Trough out the series this never stops being a core part and it even plays a role both into the final conflict and the resolution after it. There is one more theme it connects to but for the sake of not spoiling although it was already toueched on .... It's about how eating essentially means you're alive

[@isaacbunsen5833]

Its more of a eating related allegory (the joy of eating, the necessity of eating, the horror of being eaten, the d̴̤̀e̷̲͂s̸̗͛i̵͉̍r̸̡̓é̵̥ to eat). "Food" as a genre is often more focused on cooking, or the kitchen, the struggles of the cooks.

[@nobody4248]

​​@@isaacbunsen5833fun fact: in Slavic languages the words "exist" and "eat" are homonym (in some tenses).

[@kjarakravik4837]

@@nobody4248 Wait which word are you talking about? Because I couldn't think of any words for eating that sounded like the words for existence in any tense, but your comment did just make me realize that the words for fasting (post) and existence can be homonyms

[@baht8580]

"inspired by Baldur's Gate" had me rolling. That's like saying Bloodborne is inspired by Cthulhu specifically rather than an entire mythos.

[@joshridinger3407]

there is a whole genre and tradition of jrpgs and japanese 'western-style' fantasy inspired by... wizardry, going back almost 2 decades before the release of baldur's gate. i love baldur's gate but if that's someone's idea of old school, they're basically a toddler

[@MihályIllyés]

lotr is making a peace sign and slowly fading out of the public consciousness

[@Kris-wo4pj]

@@joshridinger3407 and shes talking about 3 which is weird cuz theres 2 more baldurs gate and theyre all based on dnd which is a lotr rip off that almost got sued into oblivion so they had to change and add some shit up.

[@joshridinger3407]

@@Kris-wo4pj i mean, wizardry is a dnd "rip-off" so there's common ancestry there, but there's just no reason to trace a japanese fantasy anime's roots to baldur's gate. they're like 2nd cousins at most.

[@notshardain]

@@Kris-wo4pj it's also weird because dunmeshi was being written before bg3 became A Thing. How can dunmeshi exist as a bg3 ripoff if it came first?

[@o0bookwyrmknight0o]

Lily: *summarizes the plot like she is introducing the story to people who haven’t read or watched it yet* Also Lily: *proceeds to spoil the whole series* Can’t watch the whole video, since haven’t finished the manga yet, but the way she says her friend recommended it to her and that “it’s just a fantasy series” and “Laios is an adjusted taste” makes me think nobody specific recommended it to her, but the first review she did and her hatred of Laios just left a bad taste in her mouth.

[@dinkey321]

also lily says later that she started only because of farcille?? like which one is it

[@dinkey321]

​@@dreamingleviathan3354 depending on the device ure on, the description is not the first thing u see

[@Getreidekeks]

Tbf people can recommend it to you but that doesn't have to be the reason you start. Time can go by and theeeen there is that one point that gets you to start the show

[@hologomes1388]

36:59 - No you see, Lily can't fathom the idea of Laios caring about his sister and not crying or biting his nails off thinking of her, his every mistake or saving her every second of his waking life. To her, if his guilt and sadness isn't evident in every single frame then he's just insensitive for feeling anything other than awful 24/7.

[@chessguy8269]

LO lacks the writing-version of object permanence

[@mushroomcitizen]

If the siblings aren't enmeshed she thinks they don't care about each other

[@Tj_Druid]

I believe in my heart of hearts that, given the chance, Lily would find a way to misinterpret Sesame Street.

[@MangoMagica]

I would pay money to see that happen oh my god

[@celtickawaii57]

She'd call Julia bad autistic rep.

[@doingyourmommp3novirus]

“Ernie and Bert are bad gay representation because they’re not humans they’re Muppets grrrrrr”

[@yeetmeat2734]

Oh 100% no shot.

[@KhyannArts]

lily would watch dora the explorer and take dora's constant asking to the audience as her being a useless dumbass

[@monster-enthusiast]

29:03 the ways she says some Autistic people think social cues are dumb and CHOOSE not to learn them tells me everything I need to know. We literally don't understand them because our brains work differently. And in fact, some autistic people, me included, will observe the absolute shit out of people and "study" them to figure out how to navigate situations. I understand people because I'm looking for clues to how they work. Even when it seems completely nonsensical and illogical to me. And Lily here clearly doesn't even WANT to understand Laios. She went in with biases, and refuses to let the story do it's thing. Edit: like she’s fully blaming him for not understanding things and saying it's a choice he's making.

[@ArtemisRahl15]

Makes me wonder if Lily really IS autistic… I mean, professionally diagnosed, complete with PWD ID?

[@CreamCakes420]

Yeah like my understanding of social cures is based mostly around knowing peaple react for this reason,so it can be assumed this can be applied here too. I’ve gotten to the point of social cue understanding now where other autistic people throw my brain into panic cause I’m like “Wait fuck, why are you deviating from the script?” It’s honestly a weird feeling

[@monster-enthusiast]

@@CreamCakes420 Same! I have an easier time around "average" people more than unmasked autistic folks cuz I didn't learn how to respond to that. I get thrown off.

[@monster-enthusiast]

@@CreamCakes420 Same! I have an easier time around "average" people more than unmasked autistic folks cuz I didn't learn how to respond to that. I get thrown off.

[@lizmurray6975]

Lily saw a white guy in a piece of media and immediately went 'he's the absolute worst character ever'

[@Mochi_Nochi]

She hates white blonde boys for some reason... like... she really hates Hunter from Owl House and I still can't wrap my head around that.

[@ukyoize]

​@@Mochi_Nochi Have we seen Lily and Dobson in same room?

[@joshridinger3407]

tumblr school of art criticism

[@Kris-wo4pj]

@@joshridinger3407 which is funny cuz im pretty sure most of those people left tumblr for twitter once the porn got banned.

[@zeogold]

Could be due to how Laios looks like her former best friend Josh Scorcher, and we all know that Lily Orchard can't go five minutes without bashing Josh.

[@presleyb5408]

“Comedy, drama, slice of life, fantasy, horror, action-“ is she saying that only good media sticks to one singular theme? You know what all those words would also apply to? Full Metal Alchemist. Aka, one of the WIDELY, UNIVERSALLY REGARDED best anime series of all time. It’s only bad when the media cannot balance/transition those moments properly. Smh. Lily just admit you didn’t like the show and move on, people can have different tastes, it’s valid to be exhausted by overexposure and recommendations. You don’t have to justify yourself.

[@yaboimagnus4776]

given some of her other comments about like, hating anime as a whole, i'm pretty sure she hates fullmetal alchemist too

[@animeotaku307]

Hell, a lot of great stories have many of the above elements. LotR is a fantasy, but we also get drama with close relationships, comedy to lighten the mood, action scenes, and some horrific things like Shelob demonstrating what arachnophobes see when they see spiders. There’s even a bit of slice of life when they start out in the Shire.

[@twinknecrosis]

dungeon meshi is not even a slice of life in any sense of the word lmao does lily think that any series w/ a slightly lighter tone is a slice of life like ??

[@animeotaku307]

@@twinknecrosis It has slice of life elements when it comes to the characters making and enjoying a meal.

[@hypothalapotamus5293]

So... It's like Nichijou? 😂😂😂

[@irenei4736]

God the way SO MANY people this days need things to be spelled to them or they don't understand what the story is telling them is outrageous, also why are the evil villain words always taken as truth and not like as corruption of the thrut? What is the problem with tonal shift?it's called escalation, what does she wants?? Dark moments don't have any gravity if the story doesnt have light happy moments. To call laios a misantrope is idiotic, he is not ever rude on purpose or malicious and is so open to making new friends even if he knows that most people don't like him and hes been bullyed and taken advantage of in every situation he's been.

[@YokaiLover699]

Not to mention when Shuro confronts Laios about his inability to "read the room", the flash back we get is Laios WANTING to spend time with Shuro! We even have a whole ep dedicated to how much he knows his teammates!!

[@irenei4736]

​@@YokaiLover699the First thing he does when kabru says he's interested in tasting Monster cousine Is preparing some for him...SPOILER for the manga The literal final panel Is laios telling children that food Is a privilege of the living and then going to eat with them like, She did not read It im so sure

[@BelBelle468]

What you said about evil villains being taken as truth is so true. I was a big fan of Gravity Falls, but the demonization of Mabel by the fanbase has kinda ruined the show for me. Nobody expects the grown adult men to act mature, but they expect the little girl to. Apparently the interests of men are to valid, but not tween girls. And worse of all, they took the big bad villain manipulating a child as completely valid. Cus of course the guy who’s stated to be evil, wants to use a kid, and using really bad examples of how “bad” the girl (even tho if you spend like 5 seconds reviewing the evidence there’s literally no moment she acted actually selfishly) is “right”. Hes the tumblr sexy man after all!

[@ChronicallyTweaking]

Media literacy is dead.

[@Asty-pf9rq]

ngl as an autistic person i feel like if your idea of a good autistic character is sheldon cooper you should never have a take on nd representation ever actually also laios is literally me and lilys takes on him? atrocious.

[@TrixyTrixter]

Completely agree. Falling on the spectrum I honestly just really disslike sheldon.

[@YourWaywardDestiny]

Sheldon is probably exactly like _some_ autistic person out there. That's probably the case just by the numbers, so I'm not going to go out and full-face claim he's bad _representation,_ per se, but I will say right out loud that Sheldon is a terrible representation of character writing, _full stop._ I have yet to meet someone who is a fan of Sheldon who is also the kind of person who has a single redeeming quality. Hell, that autistic person who is just like Sheldon? Way more likeable than Sheldon fans. Sheldon fans are considerably worse to deal with than Sheldon, with all his terrible, terrible, bad, no-good, atrocious writing. Lilly is just reinforcing that pattern for me.

[@jesustyronechrist2330]

How people think autism works: 1) Savant. 2) Can't tie their shoe laces.

[@apersonontheinternet6018]

Yeah like why is every autistic character “Oh they’re SUPER good at math but are a moron at everything else!!!” Like that’s not how it is usually works For example I am a moron at everythi-

[@nikkorin]

I still haven't watched the video, but Laios is 10/10 tism rep, I will die for that man, try me

[@rjai5003]

I watched the dub and I was still able to figure out Laios’ deal pretty quickly, so I wouldn’t blame the performance for her completely misunderstanding his character

[@geovanapereira941]

I also watched the dub and really can't see how she completely misses Laios' character, the dub actually made me like Laios MORE lol

[@megatennepster3833]

​@geovanapereira941 helps that dub laios is Voiced by an autistic man who worked for Smosh

[@ludovicadangelo2710]

i also watched the dub and by the second time he was on screen i was like "he's literally me wtf"

[@_NIKOS9_NIKOS]

"Lily trying not to have a shit take every 5 minutes" Challenge level: Impossible

[@hlm8403]

Hey, as if it's that person's entire strat.

[@henriquezioto8760]

You massive Lily fanboy/defender, Lily NEVER takes nowhere even closer to 5 minutes to have a new bad take. a minute is the maximum she can go on at best.

[@reyrapids63]

3:56 If that is true, then that explains so much about Lilly's lack of media literacy. She knows major plot points ahead of time, and is just pouting in the corner waiting until the show gets around to the plot points her friends told her about. Like, that must be why shes so impatient with most serialized shows, she cant stand "filler" if it isnt building towadss the exact specific plot points she has been spoiled for. Like it especially explains her hate for Steven Universe "Where is pink diamond? I don't wanna watch all this meaningless crap with Steven just wandering around in beach city?" Like she fundamentally doesnt get that those big plot points only hit emotionally if you went along for the journey with the characters. Spoliers dont always ruin your immersion in a story, but the pink diamond plotline only hits hard if you care about Steven and Pearl, Delicious Dungeons final few minutes acts only hit so hard if you care about Liaos and Marcille's relationship to Falin, and the wider ecosystem of monsters and humans explored by Senshi, Kabaru and the supporting cast. She just straught up waits for rhe show to get to "the good stuff." And thinks anything else is just "wasting time."

[@jondoe7036]

It also explains why several of her "reviews" and opinions on pieces of media feel like she didn't actually watch the thing she's addressing, because there is a chance she in fact didn't and what she is actually "reviewing" would be just that second hand plot synopsis.

[@reyrapids63]

@@jondoe7036 her reviews remind of a bad habit I had to fight. I used to get really fired up about bad movies/shows/games that I had watched a bunch of other reviews about, and I would have to stop and remember that I was just regurgitating other people's arguments instead of my own. If you want to see what happens when people don't fight that urge... Just watch 10 seconds of any Lilly Orchard videos and you'll see.

[@genericname2747]

I did spoil myself on a few things of Dungeon Meshi (specifically that the story has a happy ending and the scene with the Lion and Thistle). I hate unhappy endings and I don't like being surprised with S.A imagery. If she did something like this, I'd understand. Make sure a story is right for you before consuming it. But no, seems like she just learns all the important plot points

[@reyrapids63]

@@genericname2747 yeah, there have literally been studies showing that spoilers don't diminish the enjoyment of a movie/tv show. Because instead of the surprise when a plot point happens, you are engaged trying to figure HOW they will arrive at that plot point. And making sure there is no triggering or upsetting content is not only acceptable, but healthy. Lily... Isn't any of that... She just likes being smug. And now that we know how much she plagarizes her videos, it's no surprise that she reads the Wikipedia summary, steals a few blog posts and hits record.

[@fionn_mac_ribs]

@@genericname2747Why don’t you like unhappy endings?

[@anothercub6958]

The gall of Lily to call other people illiterate is astounding

[@reyrapids63]

Her biggest misinterpretation of Liaos is rooted in her assumption that this is a "generic high fantasy setting". The show deliberately goes out of its way fo subvert the "The power of friendship and love trumps all evil!" The characters live in a capitalist system where being heroic or kind is punished, pointed out in the episode with Namari. Lending a helping hand to people in need literally gets punished in this society. Liaos deeply cares about Falin, and even though he wants to dive back into the dungeon immediately, we see him calculating how much money he'd need to get back to the dragon by himself without dying. He cares deeply, but plans ahead. Chilchuck and Kabaru both look down on Liaos because they assume he operates on emotions and not logic, and Liaos's whole character arc is proving them wrong. While emotionally he loves monsters, logically he knows that eating monsters saves time and money, which means reaching Falin faster. They are NOT taking their time, in fact characters keep commenting on how fast Liaos's team is progressing in the dungeon. Liaos proves to everyone (and mostly Kabaru) that he has the potential to be a great leader because his unusual way of thinking allows him to find logical solutions to problem ls no one else considered (shown by Kabaru, a great adventurer on paper, but keeps getting wiped out my monsters because his hatred for monsters blinds him to other solutions.) The best example of this is Liaos's dog impression. Most parties would risk fighting monsters, but Liaos has a simple solution that frightens away the monsters and avoids unnecessary combat. The most quintessential depiction of Liaos's character is the extra comic where his parents introduce him to baby Falin. They are disappointed by his lack of reaction, but we the audience see that he really does care, bragging to his animal friends that he is now a big brother. Liaos's character requirea an understanding of the larger world he inhabits, but Lilly dismissed it as "generic high fantasy" and never bothered to care.

[@Parasolhyena]

Hmm I agree with all of this except your take on Chilchuck, Chilchuck goes along with his plans even from the very start and typically talks real with him and listens when he explains something. He clearly respects him as a leader even if he gives some push back, he does however think he is reckless sometimes and can be blinded by his interests. Heck even his interpretation of shapeshifter laios was the closest to the real Laios out of the trio's. though of course his more dumb moments haha but Chilchuck was literally just thinking about him being dumb just then because moments before this Laios did probably the dumbest thing he could by outing marcille's dark magic. I'd honestly have listed Kabaru and Shuro as the two who look down on Laios. Chilchuck just thinks he can either be a very good leader or the dumbest man alive depending on the time of day.

[@reyrapids63]

@@Parasolhyena yeah you are right. There is a lot of nuance to Chilchuck and Liaos's relationship. Chilchuck is very annoyed with Liaos and is constantly voicing his disappointment in Liaos... But we also know Chilchuck is a union man who knows his value, he wouldn't stay with Liaos if he truely hated him. I think Chilchuck has both selfish and altruistic reasons to follow Liaos. He knows Liaos doesn't have a selfish bone in his body, and after Chilchucks experience with other adventure parties (like the ones that tried to feed him to the succubus.) So he probably sees Liaos as a more trustworthy employer, and an employer he can exploit for consistent pay. Like, he knows Liaos doesn't scheme, so he's safer around him, and can have more independence and autonomy while I. Liaos's party. But I also think Chilchuck genuinely cares for Liaos the same way he keeps "adopting" others. Basically I think Chilchuck and Liaos are directly paralleled/contrasted with Mickbell and Kuro. They kinda use each other but also care about each other.

[@nachoolo]

I found really note-worthy how little interest Lily had on any other character besides Laios and Marcille (Falin is basically an accessory for Marcille in her video) in her review. Especially because she said she has read the manga. Talking about Dungeon Meshi and saying nothing about Shenshi or Chikchuck (and to a lesser point, Izutsumi) is insane. Hell, even if you hadn't read the manga saying nothing about Kabru is insane (even more so if you have read the manga, alongside other characters). She was so obsessed with hating Laios (even when speaking about Marcille it was from her focus on hating Laios) that she did not pay any attention to anything else!

[@guillermopena8412]

Honestly? I kinda feel she didn’t read it. She claims she did, but the only thing she says about it is the ending and it’s to shit on Laios. I don’t think she read it. It sounds more like she skipped to the ending to spoil it just to be a pitty dickhead.

[@capricat]

I was just watching Lily's video because I recently got into dungeon meshi and suddenly got spoiled unwarned about the ending of the series like, just goes to prove that she doesnt care about other people's enjoyment of media at all. If she doesnt like something for some reason, then nobody can enjoy it, and anyone who does is either a bad person or stupid.

[@connorjohnson8590]

Yeah, there was no spoiler warning at all. I’m a manga reader so it didn’t matter to me, but man, for show only people that must have sucked.

[@youraftermyrobotbee]

IIRC she said (in a miserable Twitter thread; I hate that this occupies real estate in my brain), "if spoilers ruin your enjoyment of a story it's a shit story." So it wouldn't surprise me if she did that deliberately.

[@sam7559]

If you can't enjoy a piece of media after being spoiled then it wasn't a good piece of media in the first place.

[@queen-monarch]

​@@sam7559 Who said the story was ruined? Dude, I'm also someone who doesn't care about spoilers, but sometimes people like being surprised and that's not something to shame them for.

[@capricat]

​@@sam7559 Actually I see it the opposite, if I actually care enough and Im invested enough about something that I dont want to get spoiled, then that something is defenetly good media. The media itself isnt ruined by the spoiler obviously, but it ruins the suspense and enjoyment of it

[@kevanwang7648]

"Very loosely inspired by Baldur's Gate." Uhhhhh maybe if your only exposure to D&D style medieval fantasy is Baldur's Gate. Another problem I saw with Lily's prior critique of Dungeon Meshi was that she claimed the characters were cliche archetypes. Oh goodness that's just so completely wrong, because every single one of the main characters is a clever subversion of D&D archetypes: Laios: Originally appears to be a stalwart (if somewhat boring) butch fighter. But is ACTUALLY pretty mid when it comes to combat, and is a neurodivergent-coded goofball with a childish glee when it comes to his obsession with monsters. Marcille: Seems to be a graceful, haughty, aloof elf. But is ACTUALLY surprisingly out of touch when it comes to nature, is absent-minded and high-strung, and the thing that drives her is actually a deep love of her friends who are of short-lived races. Chilchuck: Comes off at first as a greedy, mischievous, untrustworthy rogue. But is ACTUALLY a union man with a strict code of professional conduct and dispenses middle-aged professional life advice to his companions. Senshi: The dwarf who must surely be an expert at smithing and crafts. But is ACTUALLY terrible at smithing and weapons maintenance, and has very strong maternal instincts and just wants to do domestic stuff for others. These are all subversions of traditional fantasy RPG tropes. Just come on Lily.

[@denpa_chan]

interestingly, in her original video, she ripped into laios and used wyll from bg3 as an example, but she took that out in this video because in my initial response i drew comparisons between wyll and laios to negate her point. you made very excellent points here! she funnily avoided it after my video, making me think she watched it and tried tiptoeing around this a little lol

[@celtickawaii57]

Guy who has only played Baldur's Gate, being exposed to their second high-fantasy media: Getting real "Baldur's Gate" vibes from this.

[@nompuehuenu]

senshi mom so real, i love how he is perceived as “feminine” by other dwarfs and he himself said in an extra that during the race shift episode he wasn’t acting anything different when he was an elf, which shows how he is indeed more feminine than he appears but because of his appearance it isn’t that clear. gender norms broken by a dwarf and his cooking pot

[@genericname2747]

@@nompuehuenu Also. As an Elf he's still as blunt as ever. He doesn't carry his pot because its too heavy. This is the same man who threw away treasure because you can't eat it. This is just interpreted as him being dramatic/weak because he's an elf.

[@Evergreen_Wizard]

Lily orchard trying to get through 1 minute without mentioning incest: challenge difficulty - impossible

[@Solar-Blade]

Using Sheldon Cooper as a positive portrayal of autism was bad enough but the comparison of Laios to Bojack Horseman? Is she okay? When has Laios ever been an asshole protagonist?

[@amf8648]

Also, Laios never perved on an underage girl (he was being creepy in a "invasive" way around Izutsumi because she is part monster BUT, even then, it never had some weird conotation to it). I love Bojack but this 2 couldn't be further apart

[@genericname2747]

​@amf8648 Yeah like, he wasn't creeping on a teenager, he was being held back from bothering the team cat while she was relaxing.

[@sebastianfranasovic7005]

I believe I've written essentially the same thing in the response to her previous video, but I can't even put into words how insulting her "review" is in every possible way to Dungeon Meshi's entire story. It misunderstands the point of the whole storyline, ignoring most of the characters and the world to focus on her extremely subjective thoughts of a small handful of characters at best. Something that personally felt to me like a breaking point was the fact that she said Laios didn't care for Falin as much as Marcille did, when in the whole series we saw how much pain Laios had to bear with in order to save Falin. Finding himself dying or being severely injured just to attempt reaching for her, and essentially being one of the only things he ever thought about besides his other companions and the monsters he fixates on. It's like she never saw the show or read the manga, and just skimmed through pages like a careless student trying to write an essay out of reading over wikipedia articles vaguely related to the topic. I fear that part of her audience who engage with her content believing everything she says won't ever get to enjoy a show they might've actually liked if they weren't gaslighted into believing it was terrible. Anyways, the Hylics screenshot looked pretty neat at the stream's start, and I hope the next videos in the channel will have more positive topics than dealing with the worst takes in the entirety of the internet about media.

[@denpa_chan]

ive already put up an essay on stone ocean and have many different essays on the way, along with general hobby-oriented videos :3 thank you for watching and suffering through another response LOL

[@sebastianfranasovic7005]

@@denpa_chan Oh! KZbin didn’t notify me of the Stone Ocean one at all. I’ll give it a watch whenever I can, even if I’m stuck in Part 2 of JoJo’s because I lack the time to properly sit down and watch it. I don’t mind getting myself spoiled generally speaking, after all, it’s hard to make sense of spoilers in JoJo until you watch the whole thing to get the proper context.

[@denpa_chan]

@@sebastianfranasovic7005 unfortunately my video requires context/having read or watched stocean to fully understand my points 😭but i have many other videos coming soon so i appreciate you sticking around and being interested regardless!!

[@sebastianfranasovic7005]

@@denpa_chan Can't hurt to give it a watch regardless, I enjoy watching essays and discussions about topics people are passionate about, even if I'm missing the full picture. Besides, I'll have to watch Stone Ocean eventually, so there's the chance I come back to the video with a new perspective later. Anyways, I wish you success with the next videos, the topics that appeared in the polls look exciting already!

[@holylight2428]

The thing about laios "never" express care for falin, is flat out lie he literally lose a leg, express the he would rather take her place instead, and being self destructive in general, like girl please.. you just play the video not watching them.

[@ParsureArts]

Autism soup? What you brought up is genuinely interesting. On that note, her misinterpretation of Laios is very painful. A tumblr user brought up ... his varying sense of pain (reacting to the oil vs having his leg cut off), difficulty switching tasks (stopping to pick up the treasure bug burger because he was focused on eating instead of running), connecting with people through his interests (figuring out the shapeshifters by remembering how his friends react to monsters), and also his hand flapping- (y'know. And the person described it like- a stim to ground himself or something like that) Ironically Lily connecting/comparing Dungeon Meshi to her interests (incest) (hhrhjdfgksdks......) Around 40:20 you reminded me of how current internet culture has trouble liking or disliking things when you don't have a reason- something about everything being judged as morally good or bad and telling who your are as a person (obviously wrong, folks have different tastes). Mmmh Lily only being able to understand devotion through emotional intimacy and romance. Is. Well it explains a lot Also thanks for live reacting to this. I hope you have a good rest

[@XShrike0]

Hand flapping?

[@hyobro8392]

​@XShrike0 he flaps his hands before going dog mode in the shapeshifter episode

[@XShrike0]

@@hyobro8392 that looked like part of loosing up routine.

[@serenajackson6717]

@@XShrike0I think it’s honestly both an autism stim (at least in the anime. It’s animated a bit TOO well) and him preparing. Either way, both interpretations are absolutely hilarious to me 😭

[@wadespencer3623]

@@serenajackson6717 Somebody on the animation team being autistic and knowing they GOTTA get that movement right wouldn't surprise me. On all levels Dungeon Meshi has been a passion project.

[@kaylasells4594]

It honestly drives me crazy when people say that they have no urgency in retrieving Falin from the dungeon. Did the fellowship have no urgency reaching Mordor? Nobody can sprint through a journey like that. The body needs breaks to eat and sleep. Was the party supposed to stay silent and somber during all of that time? Come ON even in LOTR they got to goof off a little on their WORLD DEPENDENT journey.

[@bleedingroze]

It may not have been a fully centralized theme to the story… but eating was pretty damn important in LOTR for sure. Still in the middle of my book journey; but at least in the movie of ROTK, part of the reason Sam initially leaves Frodo is due to being accused of stealing the meager food supplies they have. Food and drink are very vital to “great journey” stories. Living things: men, elves, dwarves, and halflings need to eat.

[@hypothalapotamus5293]

They can only go so fast without getting full party wiped like Kabru (many of the goofy fights are needed to go forward). On some level, the main party understands that they won't make it in time for everything to be ok but their ability to function as a group requires them to sweep that invasive thought under the rug.

[@genericname2747]

SHURO LITERALLY SHOWS WHY YOU CAN'T JUST RUSH THROUGH THE DUNGEON

[@horo_horo_horo]

Oh, I'm glad other people were put off by this review... I watched the original one, was absolutely flabbergasted, checked the comments, found that all the top ones were agreeing with the author and just closed KZbin for the day... The part where she basically says "I'm autistic so I know how autistic people should be" was especially offensive, because I have close people who remind me of Laios a lot and it wasn't cool to hear a stranger on the Internet indirectly shiting on them for no reason

[@hannahlogan9453]

Falin never gets the proper attention, people think falin‘s character is one note because they’re dividing her as a human and her as a monster when they’re the same person, her as a monster can be directly related to a metaphor of her constantly being a people pleaser, her in ability to express her displeasure; falins monster form is literally her frustration, it’s crazy to me how people do not understand an metaphor and symbolism. Great video I loved it!!

[@savannahs.5874]

Oh I never got the metaphor aspect so maybe I'm dumb but that's so cool!!! thank you for sharing I absolutely love that!!!!!

[@imaginarylivingbody7154]

And even despite her limited screen time, we see enough of her personality through backstory and flashbacks. She even has a noticeable character arc that is made explicit in the last few chapters and extra content. [Manga Spoilers] - - - - - - - - - - - She is an interesting subversion of the “kind sweet damsel” found in fantasy. She is overly kind on the surface, but there is a deeper layer to her. There is a panel later in the manga where Falin says something to the effect that she will do anything, even hurt other people (by transporting her loved ones away to the surface, which has some uncomfortable effects if someone is in the way), to make sure Laios and Marcie live on. She heals in a way that tampers with a person’s sense of pain, which according to Marcille comes with a certain set of risks. Both of these instances show that she doesn’t want to see people in pain. She is willing to cause pain to protect her loved ones, but only seems to do it outside of her line of sight. She is non-confrontational to a fault. That’s why her choice to keep living, to consume, is so important. In Dungeons Meshi, eating is the special privilege of the living, which requires some degree of selfishness. She chooses to be selfish and confront things head on instead of avoiding them. She chooses to live, even if some parts of it involve suffering or heartache.

[@Ayyylien51]

Never picked up on that but maybe the anime is behind on exploring that compared to the manga? Or maybe I'm just stoopie.

[@iannordin5250]

Falin is a very interesting character because we get to see so much indirect characterization of her. I think one of the most interesting points about her, and really the detail that forms the crux of her and Laios' character and relationship is when Shuro says that Falin is his perfect, idealized woman and lists off all of the exact same traits that he despises in Laios.

[@genericname2747]

Also..she can use weapons. She's seen defending Laios with a mace multiple times. She's not just the healer

[@Cthulhululu]

I also went into dungeon meshi not knowing exactly how the plot would go, and the first episode started with a scene of falin getting eaten alive infront of her brother and i realized "cool theres gonna be some very serious and disturbing moments in this, probably more as the series goes on" idk why that was so hard for so many fans to figure out

[@-mokerly-5984]

Lily completely ignoring Kabru tells me everything I need to know about the credibility of this review. Honestly relieved though, I don't want to know what she'd do to my favourite character.

[@JogVodka]

I was wondering how she talks about other characters especially the late season 1 inclusion to the party, Izutsumi

[@KhyannArts]

her ignoring kabru is specifically funny when a big chunk of the fandom headcanons him as a trans man

[@paigemaige4886]

While I heavily HEAVILY disagree with you on the dub there is literally not a single point I agree with lily on. Why did she read the manga if she didn't like anime in general. Oh wait! she's from the Era of youtube where hating and nitpicking everything is seen as "critique"

[@XShrike0]

Ah, that is the trick. I highly doubt she actually read the manga.

[@autumnmahoney7771]

She was willing to spoil the ending of the manga but didn’t even say anything about Izutsumi? Like I’d understand not mentioning her bc she hadn’t shown up yet but she spoiled the ending!! If your doing that then at least give a mention to the cat girl

[@XShrike0]

I wouldn't be surprised if she didn't actually watch and read the whole thing and just skipped around. It is the only way I can see her claim that Liaos is uncaring.

[@kamikazelemming1552]

When people pointed out that Lily never talked about either Chilchuck or Senshi, her response was to say that they aren't important to the story. My guess is that she shares the same opinion towards Izutsumi. This opinion of hers is also objectively wrong, especially when it comes to Senshi.

[@oofyikes9912]

@@kamikazelemming1552 (spoilers for manga ending) Chillchuck isn’t important?? But she claims she read the manga?? Like him saying „don’t you want to meet my family” to Marcille isn’t what helped her snap back from her madness as a dungeon master lmao. I get that maybe he doesn’t get so much attention but his relationship with the party/his family makes him an interesting character. Story wouldn’t be the same without him and it feels like she skimmed through manga rather than actually read it

[@vladislavpetkov6120]

I doubt lily actually read the Manga, she most likely looked up the ending in Wikipedia or asked someone about it

[@notshardain]

@@kamikazelemming1552 CHILCHUCK AND SENSHI AREN'T IMPORTANT? oh my god there is no way she actually read it.

[@kiv9880]

It's so funny to me that she brings up Yor because many people have commented how she displays neurodivergent traits but only in ways that are either used to make her the joke or "endear" her to the audience without really going serious about her struggles, ah yes the autism representation Lily wants: a character so bound by social norms she cannot confortably perform that still happily tries to fit into neurotipicals and never complains about the ways people around her treat her unfairly just because she exists! One of the so called "good autistics" by her right? Such a lovely nuanced character! I'm sorry i have autism and her rants pissed me out, while Laios is not "canonically autistic" (while i dont think this is a fair point to discredit people interpreting him this way because ¹ there is no way for the word to be used in canon, there isnt a diagnosis for autism in this FANTASY world, ² i'm a firm believer that anything an author has to clarify in social midia is not canon, the mangaka has portrayed Laios this way very intentionally throughout the story) he is a much more complex and humanizing portrayel of neurodivergency, that being central to his whole character arc i dont get how someone can intentionally mess up so badly a interpretation of a character, it's all bad faith there was not ever a nuanced phrase she said about him

[@BelBelle468]

I heard he’s canonically ASD actually. If the writer has said as such, then it makes sense to not include it within the source material if it doesn’t make sense. But word of god could still apply (that said I don’t have a source, heard it secondhand but if this is “word of god” then it’s valid).

[@BelBelle468]

Oh ok nevermind I hadn’t read the part where you said you didn’t believe in “word of god” haha

[@kiv9880]

@@BelBelle468 yeah i believe even without explicitly saying he's autistic this is what is meant to be interpreted of the character, the author made it clear within the text, if she did say it more power to her tbh it's good to know it was 100% intended. What i meant with "the word of god thing" is aplied in cases to when there was no effort to actually represent what is being claimed there is representation for in a piece of midia but the creators use it as a pat in the back after the series has ended (like the fucking BBC sherlock series, bro was representing no one in the spectrum, the creators kinda coped out with "he actually has being portrayed as having aspergs" because "high-functioning sociopath" sounded obviously bad for them, you know it's awfull when the book character from the 19th century does a better job at displaying a realistic portrayel of autism LOL), anyway it's not at all the case for dungeon meshi! :)

[@hyobro8392]

You're so right, actually I think he's incredible rep because he Knows that he doesn't fit in and people hate him, but he's powerless to change it. The most he can do is come off as a stupid, funny but harmless guy with nothing deeper going on. It's not that he doesn't mask or that he can't do it, it's that it's the best he can do, basically existing with the rejection 24/7. This is so important because masking isn't some kind of magical ability that all autistics possess and just demands some effort to pull off.

[@Kevinblue035]

tbh, knowing lily, the real reason she praises yor is cus she's hot

[@saladcaesar7716]

Laios cares about his sister. He is just not emotionally expressive about it. He shows through actions not body language. This is why he is in the dungeon in the first place. He could just ditch her in the dungeon and move one. But no. He risks his life instead. Laios is not expressive. But he cares. I am not even autistic and I get it. Ps I watched the dub in French. When he saw chimera falin he said « tu es magnifique » meaning « you are magnificent ». He said in admiration and fascination.

[@Barakon]

FRENCH DUB?! WHERE?! I NEED IT! THANK YOU FOR LETTING ME KNOW!

[@ramaluminus]

"How many times do we have to teach you this lesson, old man" meme all over again.

[@cosmicwooloo]

What irks me is that she calls these “reviews” when in reality they’re rants, reviews don’t involve summaries like she did for episode one. The party doesn’t wipe, Falin uses a teleport spell to get the party out of the dungeon, the reason why she did that was because they were about to die due to the fact that they fought the dragon tired and hungry since they had lost their rations in a trap they didn’t account for. I have no idea why she’s placing the blame on Laios.

[@vlad_ussr8390]

Orchard is just so negative, toxic and hypocritical. Like saying that Marcille gets belittled in the party for being reasonable when she belittles Laois a lot. Also ironic how her rating is written, as it just shows she wanted a yuri relationship in the show and that her criticism (that the story depends on mc) can literally be applied to basically most stories. Also she reminds me kind off like Yandere dev, someone who can't take criticism.

[@animeotaku307]

Meanwhile, all the times the party berates Laios for being Laios… Lily: I sleep

[@XShrike0]

About the only way I can see Lily's description of Dungeon Meshi to be true is if you either ignore or just didn't read most of Dungeon Meshi. Between the original and this video, it seems like she watched the first two episodes, skipped to the scenes with Falin and Marcille, and then skipped to the end of the manga. That or her absolute burning hatred of Laios having the audacity of a part of him thinking that chimera Falin looked cool just overshadows everything else. She keeps coming back to that one event. People can have strange reactions to traumatic events. You can see the shock on Laios' face through that whole scene. Once he comes out of the shock, Laios then gathers himself to try to finish chimera Falin off and gets horrified again when Falin calls him brother. Laios not acting the way Lily thinks Laios should act kept popping up over and over in this. She then uses a melodramatic moment from another series to compare what Laios should be doing. Lily and a number of others seem to want Laios to be acting like Shuro. An emotional wreck that pushed himself so hard that he actually weakened himself from lack of food and sleep. I have seen enough comments like this that I now partially feel like the fight between Laios and Shuro was the author yelling at the readers that weren't picking up on Laios' strategy.

[@connorjohnson8590]

Laios has an especially good reason to have that reaction, and it foreshadows something big in the climax.

[@HelloHi-ek2nk]

That's exactly what managed to piss me of the absolute *most* about her characterization of Laios, it's just so surface leveled, just like you described. Has she missed the parts where he looked like he was in physical pain from hearing Kabru's words about Falin not being herself anymore? How he clearly struggled internally, almost a night before he hugged her and told her to never worry him like that again and now he has to fight and *put* *her* *down* to not endanger other adventurers. It hit me so hard and all she registered was one moment where he thought her dragon chicken chimera form looked kind of swag. The many times in these past videos of dunneshi she complained about people with literal *autism* (like, it's in the definition lady) not understanding and behaving according to social ques and nonverbal comunication. That's like textbook abelism! In 2024! Oh my god😭 I'm not autistic myself but any sort educated person (she has stated she had been diagnosed if I remember correctly or just talked about her being autistic herself) should not be this ignorant while having this kind of platform. So much of the fresh comments under her first video were literally discouraged to watch dungeon meshi or changed their opinions for worse because of her lacking "review". Smh.

[@IvoryDelfin]

God watching her desperately doubling down on the reuploads comment section is so depressing, its actually watching a child attempting to engage in any kind of discourse, really baffling lmao

[@IronicHavoc]

Thinking she looked cool was just his kneejerk reaction to a bizarre situation - some people laugh when they first see something traumatic or shocking, that doesn't mean it's their genuine feelings on the matter. He doesn't seriously advocate she stay like that and immediately starts trying to figure out how to fix her. Also, like, the very scene immediately preceding the "she looked cool" bit was this emotional conflict where he had to chose whether to attack his sister and when she spoke to him he nearly broke down. They're able to make jokes about the monster stuff *because* the narrative explicitly establishes that he *does* care. His party members excuse his occasional idiosyncracies because he demonstrates he does value them most and does take his role seriously. And I like how Dungeon Meshi handles it. though he has hyperfixations, he distinguishes those fixations from his actual emotional priorities and values and can process them separately. As someone on the spectrum with high OCD tendencies, thats a big deal for me. Im not necessarily defined by my knee jerk reactions, but how I chose to validate and act on them. There are scenes with Shuro and the party where miscommunications are portrayed as something multiple parties can work on, and sometimes Laios straightforward approach is appreciated while at other times its not and he becomes more aware of it as the series progresses. And it's worth noting even neurotypical people arent 100% controlling of their bad social cognitive habits, maturity is learning how to navigate that. If you think you've achieved a standard better than that you're probably just not self aware (or blatantly deluding yourself) And if scenes with the Lion can be used as evidence of someones genuine character why not apply that to Marcille? She was also tempted into being a dungeon master under the idea that she could grant people immortality (even against their own wishes). If Marcille kidnapped/forced/harmed people under its influence, does that mean *she's* a sociopath? It's a tempting demon that by nature corrupts peoples' wishes. This is like watching Lord of the Rings and saying "Frodo was actually a sociopath because he betrayed Sam at Mt Doom". So yeah, it definitely feels like she had an initial impression and then skimmed for stuff that seemed to reinforce it out of context.

[@Phreias]

also i feel like this is going to go really poorly for her. SU was a show for kids and kids dont really know how to argue back with an adult. meshi is for adults and they DO know how to argue back (sometimes). if shes not already, shes going to be considered a lolcow at best, or just forgotten

[@celtickawaii57]

She thinks she can outwit DunMesh fans by ad hominem-ing them to death ("Weh weh you're all sweaty inbred pedo MAGA bigots!") and especially trying to weasel her way out of being blatantly ableist because she clearly thinks she's smarter than the rest of us autistics.

[@jondoe7036]

Among people unfortunate to have known of her, outside her fanbase Lily has been regarded as a lolcow for years now. Doesn't really affect her, because you can't shame the shameless and she barely leaves the personal echochamber she's groomed for herself. That said, I do expect things to turn worse for her soon. Not due to more people finding out how awful of a media analysist she is, but moreso because her past attrocities are catching up to her, thanks to the efforts of her past victims trying to get her deplatformed having gained some notable momentum recently.

[@SaiScribbles]

I adore that you keep changing the thumbnail every time Lily changes hers. Based af.

[@denpa_chan]

omg sai i love your streams 🧎🧎🧎🧎but if she wants to be petty i'll be petty right back idc about the rebrand she wont escape accountability or her dogshit takes!!

[@SaiScribbles]

@@denpa_chan Thanks! I was glad I could finally watch this after doing my own lol. I like to stay blind for reacts.

[@johncummins46]

So to add to this, it isn't just that Lily expected or was told that Dungeon Meshi was a comedy or that it was built to be about food and dungeon monsters. She actively believes and has stated severla times that stories should NEVER cross over into other territories. She fights for teh idea that a tone for a show should stay the same and never dip or change, or at leas thsouldn't change often. I said it before in the last video, but her biggest problem is that she focuses on preferance over actualy substance. She has a long history of basically calling things shit because it doesn't fit into her ideal for a story. Her perference lies with cushy, cozy, and soft slice of life stuff, or super angsty, hyper serious, no nonsense stories with no in-between. She hates action and views it as a waste of time and thinks that and more than once has said that she believes trying to make stakes only takes away from a show rather than adds to hence (which plays into her whole "going pre-spoiled" mindset). I'll stand by what I siad that on a rare, once in a blue moon occaission she has decent to actually good writing advice. Ideas that can help with certain situations with the right angle. But it gets drowned in her condescending, biased attitude towards just about anything that isn't either her taste, her viewpoint on a subject, or fits into an arbitrary rule she has.

[@connorjohnson8590]

I also think that some of the stuff she was saying about Marcille wasn’t off, but it also didn’t cover the most compelling parts of her character. Lily stopped midway and didn’t actually bother to read the manga, because she wouldn’t have praised Marcille so absolutely in comparison to Laios if she actually read through to the end.

[@johncummins46]

@@connorjohnson8590 The crazy thing is, she did. She definitely read the whole thing given she got to the end. She doesn't didn't want to say that Marcille did something bad. Lily has a major bias against "basic" white male characters and a major bias for female characters that are evne applied to be gay. It's not even that she's wrong to have a certian bias, but she lets her criticism be clouded by it entierly. She likes Marcille and believes her to be the best hcaracter and therefore will completely ignore her moments of fault or when she's being the asshole. As I said, she reviews based on her prefereances and her preferances alone.

[@Kylesico912x]

Lily would absolutely hate Avatar the Last Airbender then. That show was mainly action. But also had plenty of comedy, drama and even horror.

[@johncummins46]

@@Kylesico912x She says she likes it but says that it was a fluke, That it only really worked because of luck on the writers part. Basically a whole "the exception that proves the rule"

[@balladofthegoddess]

She would absolutely hate madoka magica

[@i.cs.z]

I'm so sorry you had to suffer Lily again.

[@denpa_chan]

it was like experiencing an icepick lobotomy

[@SaiScribbles]

42:25 Bold of you to assume she actually read the manga and didn't just look up ending spoilers to punish the people who criticized her first video.

[@vexfidel4127]

Ahh beans, I slept in and didn't manage to catch this live. Still, plenty to think on: I can't help but think Lily equates all tonal shifts to tonal inconsistency. Tonal shift can be so, so good! Who hasn't watched Mulan (the 1998 one) and had that one moment (A Girl Worth Fighting For, leading into... you know) burned into their mind forever? Likewise in Dunmeshi, the appearance of the Chimaera is made all the more devastating because of the prior framing; characters are having a casual argument as weaker monsters drop like flies around them, and then suddenly Bam! That's incredible usage of tone! That's why people are going so crazy for this show! Lily... ignored that entirely. Again, like she didn't even watch the show. The more I experience of her as a reviewer (not getting into the other stuff here) the more I come to the conclusion that Lily is the sort of person who thinks reading a Wikipedia summary of a piece of media is equivalent to reading the media itself; her insistence that there's no difference between subs and dubs ever (I'm personally enjoying the Dunmeshi dub, but I respect your issues with it), the fact she never brings up scene composition or sound design or shot editing or any of those things that make animation what it is. As a reviewer of animated media, her videos are fundamentally worthless because they don't approach her subjects as anything more than a timeline of events, or perhaps a list of bullet points on TvTropes. Man, I wish we had the alternate universe Lily who compares every show ever to Bluey instead of Digimon. It wouldn't fix anything, but it might make the constant tangents more watchable. (Oh, and also; Lily continues to refer to characters from other media without labelling them. I HAVE NEVER WATCHED KORRA, LILY. STATISTICALLY NEITHER HAS A SOLID CHUNK OF YOUR POTENTIAL AUDIENCE. IT IS BAD FORM FOR NONFICTION MEDIA TO LEAVE THE VIEWER WITH MORE QUESTIONS THAN THEY HAD GOING IN, JUST SAYING)

[@denpa_chan]

you raise so many excellent points here! very much agree on the tonal shift bit, as that honestly what makes dunmeshi hit harder to begin with. the party bonds when they have moments to eat and rest, but there is still the pressure from their environment is omnipresent. VERY true on the reviewer bit as well. many youtubers fall into that, imho. they end up just summarizing the story while interjecting with their opinions while treating it as a valid form of analysis or critique, when it comes off more like cinemasins than roger ebert lol. like i said in my first video, her arguments defeat themselves when taking more than a cursory glance at the series, which is why its so irritating to watch her "review" be presented as an objective retelling of events/interpretation. she relied on One Single manga panel to bolster several of her points while misunderstanding its purpose in the narrative, which further cements the concern about her presenting things as a bullet point list. it is truly baffling. there is loads to talk about from a technical perspective, but even dissecting the allegories of dunmeshi and its imagery is a lot to take on, and she refused to engage with it from any of those perspectives. instead, she doubled down and just compared dunmeshi to, like you said, childrens media or spiralling into unexplained references and tangents. how she has so many subs and people that still look to her for reviews is beyond me lol. thank you so much for watching and being so enthusiastic about my responses it means a lot to me!

[@vexfidel4127]

@@denpa_chan Oh my god that panel: I'm picturing Lily trying to review the Silence of the Lambs and writing off Clarice because of some shit Hannibal says to rile her up halfway through. "Look at this unbiased textual evidence. Media analysis is my passion."

[@denpa_chan]

@@vexfidel4127 PLSS TOO REAL TOO REAL DONT KNOCK AT DOORS YOU DONT WANT THE DEVIL OPENING

[@BelBelle468]

Ok I was stupid to read this comment and not expect spoilers. Well luckily I stopped immediately at the 1st one lol

[@vitorhenriquefarias8916]

When lily slanders madoka i get way too personal like if lily thinks madoka is just torture porn she's just a sensetive idiot who can't grasp media that isn't for kids if lily wanted an actual magical girl show that's torture porn it's magical girl site from what i heard the main character gets physically abused in like half of the first episode

[@animeotaku307]

Oh god MGS. That series understands Madoka as well as Lily does.

[@nompuehuenu]

madoka magica? the magical girl anime that subverted the whole genre and made an exquisitely heartbreaking allegory to the exploitation of young girls with a system that punishes them by making them into “witches” who then get killed by “magical girls” who don’t know any better only because it fuels that same system with their emotions and lives? SHE SLANDERED IT??????

[@ebolaspreadn2478]

that series rules. its not about understanding madoka

[@genericname2747]

I haven't even watched Madoka Magica and yet I understand it more than she does.

[@i.cs.z]

What is kind of remarcable in it's own way, is the very scepicif way Lily completly misunderstand Laios. It goes beyong basic media illiteracy, a shallow understanding of Laios would be more like "he is a kind dumbass with weird interests", her intetpretation of "nihilistic missantrope who only cares abouth monsters" goes againts stuff that the anime/manga outright spells out. I don't know how you can miss all the instances where he is caring and consistently well intentioned, and read active malice into what he does. Ok, that's a lie, I know how: she hates him for being a white blond male, didn't actually watched/ read the source matetial, and only cherry picked stuff that she can use to prove her point. Seriously she complains abouth Laios "not getting called out", than uses instances when the others tell him off to prove how terrible he is, wtf. Lily's reaction to an autistic character is: not showing NT approved emotional expressions makes them evil, and not masking 24/7 makes them a malicious asshole who doesn't care abouth hurting people, when a person is unintentionally insensitive the best response is verbal (or physical) abuse, it's their fault really, they choose to be like this, if they just tried harder they could read the room. Well that's sure is a take that isn't ableist in itself. And comming from an agressively contrarian person like Lily it's downright hypocritical. It's her right to find a character annoying for any reason, but certain interpretations are objectively wrong. Her's abouth Laios is so removed from everything present in the source material I'm not sure where she got it from, it feels like she accidentally traveled between dimensions.

[@imaginarylivingbody7154]

And the thing is, even if he does have some misanthropic tendencies (which is what the Winged Lion exploited and manipulated him with), he CHOOSES to be kind. He makes an effort to connect with people and be altruistic despite being ostracized, looked down upon, and abused for his entire life. It shows the strength of his character and that kindness isn’t something people are naturally born with or without, but a choice people make.

[@wadespencer3623]

Feels like something ONLY based on one scene with the Winged Lion and basically nothing else in the entire manga. Laios definitely has issues with people from a combination of his autism and the traumatic response of his village to Falin's magical talents, but on an individual basis, he tries to be good to people. The only time I can think of him being INTENTIONALLY unkind to somebody is when he slaps Shuro... who was in the midst of insulting him over the lengths he had gone to to rescue his sister.

[@JayEyedWolf]

I feel like her comment on "the story exists to drive the characters insane (aside from the two who already are)" is SO goddamn revealing. The sheer CONFIDENCE in that bafflingly wrong assessment... She has absolutely never expanded her understanding of media beyond "edgy" hypergrim fanfiction. Like, can someone please go back in time fifteen years and read her the wikipedia page for narrative conflicts? I feel like it would basically fix her whole shit. Semi-organized expounding rambles below: Treating narratives purely as vehicles for character emotion is unfortunately massive in fanfiction communities. It is a side effect of media created for indulgence and gratification above all else. It's like if someone exclusively watched p○rn and got mad the Matrix movies took so long to get to Neo and Trinity fuckin. When you insulate in a form of media with such specific and reliable purpose, you forget how to find meaning and value in other media, and start to just... assume it doesn't have any. For Orchard, "catharsis through heightened emotion/justified hysteria" is the hit she expects from media, so anything that fails to provide it must be doing something Wrong. Honestly, it all adds together neatly. Her disturbing published fanfiction fits into a category of "whump as indulgence", which you might know by the phrase "hurt/no comfort IS my comfort". It's not, on its own, innately unhealthy-- but becoming insular and restricted to just that space, just that emotional hit, is. Any clustered media, especially media produced in a similar time and space or for similar purposes, creates expectations in its audience, expectations that become divorced from anything except the group's expectation and social understanding of normalcy. For example, a lot of romance stories, both western and otherwise, will reproduce tropes of emotional intensity as reality, of violent jealousy in a male romantic partner, of a female character needing someone else (a man) to make her feel safe and validate her choices. Hurt-no-comfort is a genre of media that fosters very specific understandings in the audience. One of those is that the story Will contrive to make the main character suffer more. The transparent contrivance is necessary; the audience both needs the catharsis of the suffering, and the sense the character(s) do not deserve their suffering. For any media, if you marinate in just its expectations long enough, you will start to expect it where it doesn't belong, like the Tetris phenomenon. Even if you know you're in the real world and not playing Tetris, your brain will project the patterns you have trained it to expect, and only stutter when it bumps into a contradiction. These contradictions come quickly in real life with tetris; it is much harder with media. So Lily's expectation that everything build to moments of raw, heightened emotion, that everything in a story is in service of that direct, reflectional emotional catharsis is just part of how she has trained her brain to understand media, and it warps everything. Senshi, Chilchuck, Izutsumi, and Kabru aren't "important" to dunmeshi because their narratives aren't built around an intimate and invasive depiction of their emotional excess. Marcille is the best character, because her expression of emotion is most cathartic; Laios is the worst, because the narrative serves his emotional heightening the most, but he "fails to deliver", and is thus a disappointment and a bastard. The overarching narrative is stupid "basic high fantasy shit" because it does not escalate the stakes in a way Orchard finds cathartic. The Digimon moment felt so impactful to her because a character she suggests she barely gave a shit about beforehand-- from those comments on sitting through it for her wife-- experiences and displays an intense emotional moment. In Orchard's eyes, the narrative exists to propel the characters into providing cathartic emotional peaks. She doesn't thunk this is a bad thing; she thinks it is the only function of a narrative, and she is exasperated with dunmeshi because she resolutely perceives it as trying to be whump-- raw whump, whump down to the core, where the point of the narrative is the suffering-- and failing.

[@chessguy8269]

Excellent comment

[@chelle249]

Spot on!

[@deltap6967]

Holy moly this perfectly encapsulate lily's thought process and explain the horrible taste in media

[@PlatinumAltaria]

8:14 You have to only pick one tone and stick with it the entire time! I want 24 episodes where people crack jokes and cook with no further development or themes!

[@FinetalPies]

I'm suddenly reminded of the time I worked at a vegan cafe and my white boss told me that if you eat food with more than one flavor at a time it will cause brain damage.

[@lunebadru5997]

hi as an autistic person i really relate to laios and his journey. its people like lily that just make me want to sink back into my books and never interact with people a gain

[@connorjohnson8590]

Sorry you had to deal with that. Laios is great because he is just a pure hearted dude who happens to have a hyper fixation and inability to pick up social cues.

[@LocalTorchwoodIntern]

Also someone who relates to Laios, I feel the same. Like yeah I also love Chilchuck, who she doesnt even mention in the video at all and you'll think she'll mention him cause hes kinda important but no. But Laios hit home to me, as an older sibling and someone on the spectrum.

[@highspeedtacos1224]

I don't think Lily hates Shonen because it's not her thing. I think she hates it because she's a massive contrarian and wants to be seen as having a different opinion. Dungeon meshi is NO WAY a standard fantasy story but even if it was what of it? Why is making a story that has its basis on classic fantasy such a bad thing? Not only is it bonkers as hell but classic fantasy goes hard as hell sometimes. Is it generic that the barbarian is wearing fur clothes and has a giant axe? Absolutely. It doesn't make it any less cool when he's on the mountain top yelling at the heavens while lightning strikes behind him. Is it generic to have the evil pointy hat wizard want to control the world just because he's evil? Sure. But that doesn't make it any less entertaining watching him plot by himself and get his ass beat by the power of friendship. Lily is only against it because they fall in the mentality of "everything has to be original or subversive to MY taste or it's completely bad" and doesn't elaborate WHY being generic is bad.

[@wadespencer3623]

Dungeon Meshi isn't even shonen, it's seinen.

[@phantombroker6856]

I actually dropped a bunch of comments explaining things she’d neglected to mention and she straight up hid them

[@moonink3d420]

regarding Laios' reaction to chimera Falin: I'm autistic, and that was the first time i saw properly represented how hard it is to separate an emotionally intense situation from your special interest/hyperfixation. In many instances, some autistic people fall back on filtering their experience through their special interest. Like, it's fine if Lily is autistic and hasn't had that happen - I'm glad actually. It's not a pleasant or fun situation, it can be deeply embarrassing and frustrating, even more so when you're aware it's happening. But it's really stupid do deny that it does happen, or that this is inaccurate.

[@fabidraws3302]

Something that really rubs me the wrong way and that kind of shows how she sees autistic people in general is when she says that Laios/some autistic people pick up social cues but then decide to not give a shit. Like ma'am??? The WHOLE point is that they DON'T pick up the social cues. Also, the fact that Lily didn't explore Laios confrontation with Shuro, one of the few moments in which Laios perception of reality is actively challenged and shows how much he's affected by the whole ordeal, is very telling. How can you say Laios is a cynic asshole when, in that confrontation, he is shown to never truly realise how Shuro sees him and how stressed and worried he is about Marcille? Laios is so clearly othered by all of the other explorers, and is shown so well by his juxtaposition against Shuro (not getting social cues) and Kabru (being the LITERAL opposite of Laios in every way) that actively misunderstanding it is crazy. Not mentioning Kabru at all is crazy, he's so cool and he shows so much worlbuilding with the other races like :(( Also also, the fact that she didn't mention how well the different races' customs and societal and physical distinctions is also wild. Like half of the party's interactions and differences (and even motivations) are marked by their race and not a single mention???? Her whole interpretation of the manga is done so maliciously and it shows. (Oof sorry for the rant!!)

[@TheFrostedfirefly]

SPOILERS FOR THE MANGA . . . . . . . . . . I find it funny that she constantly jumps onto the Winged Lion part like that's proof Laios isn't autistic, as if the Winged Lion is gonna go to Laios and say "Ayo, you've got autism, don'tcha, Laios?". My sister in Christ, the Winged Lion will literally say whatever is easier to nurture and harvest Laios' desires. That cannot be obvious enough, there ain't no benefit to the Winged Lion leaning into an aspect that probably isn't even fully realised by the characters themselves. I doubt many people in a medieval fantasy setting have the mental health research gone into diagnosing people's odd thinking quirks.

[@connorjohnson8590]

Exactly!! Laios literally denies what the Lion says just a couple panels later, and the Lion doesn’t actually deny him. Dude can 100% read Laios’ mind and heart and doesn’t deny Laios’ refusal of those accusations.

[@iannordin5250]

@@connorjohnson8590 Also the Winged Lion is literally the manifestation of selfish, primal desire itself, and Laios stright up denied and defeated the Lion, something no other character could do. He quite literally sacrificed his own passions to save his loved ones and the island.

[@genericname2747]

I understand completely, but it would be VERY funny if Laios met literal God and was told by that god he had autism. Imagine if instead of the Lion asking if he was an idiot, the lion said "Laios you're autistic."

[@samuelwoodouse4482]

It's very telling that orchid sees rural communities as obsolete. Rural communities are a necessary thing for food production and some people just like them. It's indictive of a lack of understanding or value of other perspectives and ways of life

[@steinfieldseinfield]

It's funny how the comparison to Sheldon made me realize that Abed from Community is similar to Laios in a lot of ways in terms of autism. Both have niche interests, Laios in monsters, Abed in movies. Both have trouble picking up social cues and reading the room. And both do a good job showcasing just how isolating and lonely autism can be for the person. And that while they do grow over the course of their series, it is done by having friends that emphasize and relate to them. Instead of "checking them", whatever that means, they treat them with compassion and compromise. Maybe it's done like that in TBBT, I can't remember so I won't comment. They are their own characters who both show care for their friends in their own ways, Laios when hugging Falin and Abed when helping Shirley with her movie. Plus, they show that by utilizing their niches, they can provide great advantages. Laios when helping take down monsters, Abed when dictating how a plot should play out. My point is, Laios, like Abed is a great autism rep and a great character. It's why I was drawn to him. And why I appreciate you so much for defending him.

[@dmaid7190]

Lily really went "Baldurs Gate 2 did being worried about your sibling better" and had to cite a mod to prove that Imoen is integral to the PC (Which yeah she is but just because Lily likes her doesn't prove anything)? You can't cite fanfiction to prove your point, an even then you have a lot of introspection from Laois later in the manga. He feels guilt for leaving 1 year early because he couldn't watch her be treated badly by the village anymore, he knows that it was selfish and feels bad for that. She just doesn't want to like Laois and tries everything to make him out to be the worst person ever.

[@lokcachte]

I don’t know anything about any of this but her tone makes me want to watch Dungeon Meshi out of spite. I love the idea of an autistic guy as a main character and frankly he sounds like a really relatable autistic character

[@freetimesketchbook9485]

You should watch it it's so good

[@catsinburg8626]

Have you read it yet? If not then you really should it's fr top 10 all time

[@fluorescentgreys]

this made me so mad I went and preordered my laios nendoroid lmaooo. He’s a character I love on a very personal level (I’m autistic and relate deeply to him) If I hear Lily throw around the word “misanthrope” one more time I’m gonna lose it

[@monster-enthusiast]

The whole thing about Laios: autistic guy gets othered and hated on because he works a little different and no one understands him. Lily: hating Laios cuz he's different and doesn't understand him. I've never seen someone miss the point so spectacularly. Also Laios is literally me if I didn't mask lmao. I love him.

[@gateuregodhead8477]

i think the biggest reason she doesnt like laios is because she doesnt read into his character at all, her interpretation seems very surface level he only ever shows his emotions on the surface, which allows for lighthearted funny moments to occur, but later on, when they killed the dragon, revived falin and laios hugs her, he shows that he really was under a lot of stress, and in the end he is just happy that she is back. sure he may be blunt and it may seem like he doesnt care, but thats specifically because hes avoiding being all mopey and sad, or because he wants to keep being optimistic. looking at it that way, i dont see why lily would consider laios to be such a despicable person

[@gr-pk8ko]

Thank you so much for the spoiler warning. This series means a lot to me, so I've really been trying to avoid any spoilers about it

[@DainnGreywall]

Absolutely disagree on the dub being poorly performed. This is absolutely THE netflix anime where the dub is superior.

[@alicebunnymera]

I wouldnt call it superior but it is definitely one where i am enjoying the dub a bunch

[@ChronicallyTweaking]

It's not my cup of tea but I'm glad you guys like it

[@MangoMagica]

I think the dub is good but the granddaddy of a Netflix dub that’s better than the source material imo is Cyberpunk Edgerunners to me. Rebecca isn’t Rebecca to me without the voice cracks and her saying the fuck word every other sentence

[@faithjohnson5287]

@@MangoMagica the cyberpunk dub is god tier. I thought everything was done so well. The Rebecca and Adam smasher scene lives in my head rent free and I quote it too often.

[@willhockstein119]

I have only watched the dub, and I really liked Laois and his voice actor. I took some of his way of speaking as “flat affect,” a thing many people around me I care about have, and much like them it was so lovely to see him light up about a special interest. Same with his forming a bind with shenshi based on that. Lily doesn’t seem to understand not being able to communicate feelings doesn’t mean you don’t have them, and your feelings not manifesting like others doesn’t make them wrong. I wanna check out the sub now for sure!

[@animeotaku307]

His actor is autistic and also subscribes to the “Laios is autistic” camp, so he likely worked that into his performance.

[@AvaWatson-y9w]

I just prefer to watch dubs when I can because I don't want my attention to be split between reading what the subtitles say and seeing what's actually happening on the screen. Maybe that's just my ADHD at work.

[@NiamhIsBig]

haven't seen the full video but I call bullshit on Lily reading the entire manga. This is the same woman who gave up on the retrospective format an hour into her 6 hour pokemon retrospective. There's no way she's diligent enough to read 100 chapters of manga, rewrite and reedit a 25 minute video in less than a month.

[@NiamhIsBig]

ok almost done with the video and I'm 90% sure she just read a wiki and grabbed some screenshots. she uses that one shot of the Winged Lion half a dozen times, doesn't acknowledge Thistle or the golden country at all and has nothing to say about 3/5ths of the party. There's no way she's this into Marcille as a character and doesn't talk about her **BIG SPOILER** BECOMING THE FUCKING DUNGEON LORD

[@sekiro_the_one-armed_wolf]

@@NiamhIsBigthat’s a fucking amazing point holy shit, this shit just gets worse the deeper we get into it lmao

[@NiamhIsBig]

oh, another thing! if she did read the manga or keep up with the anime, she would have for sure seen that scene where Izutsumi gets naked and Laios gets blindfolded so he can't inspect her beast-man physiology. Lily for sure would have framed that as Laios creeping on a teenager or claim he's a zoophile in bad faith. Which is why I'm certain she didn't even watch all the episodes that are out because that episode came out before this video dropped and there's no chance in hell Lily would look over a chance to make Laios come off as bad as possible. doubly so if her reading the manga claim was true, because she would have gotten to that scene BEFORE the anime did and known about it ahead of time

[@denpa_chan]

@@NiamhIsBig all VERY true. i wanted to bring up the mithrun/kabru plotline because i think it is such a wonderful example of how dunmeshi uses false expectations to flesh out characters but she didnt even mention kabru 💀 a very important character and the foil to laios went completely ignored

[@NiamhIsBig]

@@denpa_chan she probably ignored Kabru because either a. she didn't actually watch the show/read the manga and is going off clips and 2nd hand knowledge. hoping that no one that actually read the books/watched the show calls her out on it b. ignored him because his existence undermined her narrative about Laios being an unaware narcissist who hates people. hoping that no one that actually read the books/watched the show calls her out on it

[@SpoookiePie]

I feel like Lily has such deep contempt for most media because of her own staggering media illiteracy. I would be bitter and angry too, I guess, if I was incapable of understanding any story, ever, even at the most basic level.

[@newwick]

Regarding your tangent about spy family's treatment of Yor aroun 48:00 mins, I remember last year I sent a tumblr ask to Lily Orchard (when I used to sporadically see some of her stuff but was lucky enough to not catch her weirdest takes) and I said pretty much the exact thing you did about how I got disappointed witht the way the series ignored Yor and sidelined her to completely be in her generic traditional role of mother/wive and complretely forgetting her job as a professional assasin and how I thought it was such waste of character and possible scenarios regarding Yor's troubles hiding her assassin job. Wanna know how lily answered in that ask? She said I was a cringe edgelord for just wanting to see murder in the show and how weebs are all edgelords like me and the show was completely fine as is... Yeah I stopeed taking her seriously then. I guess she has some really weird pre-conceptions of everything and assumes the worst of anything and everyone that doesnt completely fit those views and her likes even if its by the slightest margin.

[@wadespencer3623]

She really only does like kid's shows, huh.

[@kelseymiller7820]

Given what I've seen of both her videos and how quickly she put out that second video (which was very quick by her standard), I 100% believe she didn't read any of the manga beyond just grabbing the last book, giving it a quick skim, and then pulling whatever panels she could use to double down. She's just fishing to whatever "supports" the expectations she went into the series with. It's a very Lazy-First-Year-College-Student type of essay writing. That's why she has no opinions about Senshi, Chilchuck, and Izutsumi. That's why she doesn't mention anything about those "god-like beings" and the VERY intense stuff they do. That's why she said nothing about Marcille and some heavy spoiler stuff. She didn't even watch any episodes between the Falin's revival and her reappearance as a chimera. To blame her comprehension on any performance issues with the anime is giving her way more grace than she's earned. There are tons of anime-onlys who watched Duneon Meshi's English dub and perfectly understood the nuances. The thing about Lily Orchard is that she stifles her frame of reference to just children's cartoons (that's why she made that Digimon comparison instead of to other adult media) and video games aimed towards teenagers and young adults. Anything more nuanced or subtle goes right over her head. Given that she's in her 30s, it's become willful ignorance on her part.

[@celuiquirevient]

the first appearance of falin as a chimera is brought up a lot in this in regards to laios' reaction but what i understood as i read the manga when he thinks "thats too greedy" is this: By meshing so many good attributes together, such an amalgam of creatures might come with unforseen consequences. Crazy how said consequences even happen to be in line with the theme of the story, if anything, it was great foreshadowing.

[@emiliamaldonadorocchi5863]

Lily is the kind of person that complains about other people being rude to her because of her takes and then gets mad when people dont agree with her shitty takes

[@bigoof9486]

the fact she said Yor's incestuous brother is a good autistic brother over monster specialist Lainos. LOL

[@GingerbreadGerard]

The fact that Lily thinks that autistic behaviors are chosen says all that I need to know. One does not simply choose to misunderstand social cues, one does not simply choose to be othered based on behaviors that they cannot control. The way she talks about lios is aggressively ableist and narrowminded.

[@monster-enthusiast]

It's like Lily can only understand characters when they're one-dimensional and treats that like the gold standard of writing, so she decides everything she doesn't understand is badly written.

[@freetimesketchbook9485]

I laughed so hard when she used digimon as an example for what dungeon meshi should be because she's literally comparing a cartoon for 7 year olds as a standard,😭😭😭

[@YokaiLover699]

Lily always seems to struggle with characters and storytelling that isn't blatant about what it's trying to convey. I think she probably glances what she's watching. Not fully (or halfly even) engaging with the show.

[@XShrike0]

That would explain that Digimon example of how a brother is supposed to react to an ailing sister.

[@celtickawaii57]

Another thing Lily forgets is that Falin is already dead by the time everyone is teleported back to the surface. They know she's already been eaten, and they know the best they can hope for is to pick out her remains from the dragon's stomach while hoping there's even enough of her TO revive. This is brought up in episode 1. Plus, the dragon's moving slowly and therefore digesting slowly, so they at least have *some* time to work with. She wonders why they're not bum-rushing down 5 floors full of deadly monsters to save Falin from being digested when she's already been bitten in half.

[@hyobro8392]

Yes and them being a bit too carefree because "everything works out with resurection" is literally addressed later in the story Like, they almost turn to the camera and say "we didn't accept the cycle of life and death because the dungeon bends that rule, and we have now learned from this and grown as people"

[@elsesome2707]

Kui recently made a short comic of Laios hallucinating that he was eaten by Dragon instead of Falin. In his vision Falin has to venture alone in the dungeon as neither she nor the party know about Dragon's slowed metabolism, and rest of the party immediately give up on resurrecting Laios.

[@wadespencer3623]

Like a python or crocodile, it seems like the normal thing for dragons is to eat one big meal, then rest for a long time afterwards. A python can eat something big and then be good for a year.

[@jamiewebber7485]

Yeah, Lily has an extremely, bizarrely intense hatred for avoiding spoiler. Weirdly enough, I feel that this hatred is the most present in livestreams (that she very quickly deletes after ending them) and on her Tumblr blog (which has been entirely nuked off the website TWICE now!). But I do remember her saying in a video (I think it was one of her ones about the Owl House?) that she believes that people should purposefully spoil movies and shows for themselves because she thinks that it shows somebody enjoys a movie/show more if they spoil it completely for themselves and decide to watch it anyways. But, yes, it is yet another extremely misanthropic trait of hers and she has regularly mocked/made fun of people for wanting spoiler warnings from her when she’s talking about movies/shows and she/her followers often made fun of so-called “spoiler culture” on her Tumblr blog back when it existed.

[@hannahneloms1143]

Yeah actually I commented on this in her reuploaded review. I said spoiling shows ruins anything that has a plot twist to try and help her understand and her response to me was “well do you only ever watch things one time” as if that means anything

[@jamiewebber7485]

Oh, that is just terrible. Obviously, the first time experience watching something is completely different to rewatching something and Orchard would know that is she wanted to do anything in her videos other than pump out extreme ragebait/make people miserable all the time. Rewatching is definitely at thing, but that has literally nothing to do with the enjoyment and powerful emotions that a person can feel by watching a movie/cartoon for the first time. The fact that Lily apparently spoils everything for herself before watching it speaks VOLUMES with how it clearly prevents her from feeling anything like that from watching media.

[@lizzytheowl577]

If I remember right her thought process is "If [Piece of Media] is ruined by spoilers then it's just bad to begin with" because it "loses rewatch value" and if it isn't rewatchable then it's automatically bad. This ignores: 1) Sometimes(Most times really)a series that would be ruined by spoilers has a ton of rewatch value because viewers get to watch/read certian moments in a new context. Delicious in Dungeon is absolutely *full* of moments like this which seem one way before a reveal and seem another way after a reveal, but you *don't get that* if you spoil yourself on all the major plot points before engaging with the series. Instead you only see those moments as what they mean for the post reveal, and because you have nothing to compare and contrast that to it feels shallower than it actually is. This also affects the first watching experience because if you already know the major story beats then you'll just be waiting for those the whole time instead of actually engaging with the present time in the narrative. 1b) I know that last part because I do this to myself with anime *a lot*. I'll watch an anime, get really into it, run out of episodes, get impatient, and then go read the manga. When episodes start coming out again, I mostly remember the major plot points and start waiting for them to be animated. Often times it will take more episodes than I intially thought because I forgot how far apart two events are, and even when I enjoy an episode I'll still leave just a little bit disappointed because Big Plot Point didn't show up. This doesn't make the anime adaptation bad or unrewatchable (necessarily) but it does massively affect my enjoyment when watching along as episodes air. Sometimes there will be an adaptation like Delicious in Dungeon that I'm still excited for each and every episode, but that usually requires each episode to have its own stand out moments. This isn't achievable for a lot of series because they'll need multiple episodes to do something the same way the manga needs multiple chapters to do it. 2)Things don't have to be rewatchable to be good. There have been plenty of times I've walked out of a movie theater thinking "I really enjoyed that" or "That was really well done" without having any desire to rewatch it. Rewatchability is a *bonus* not a requirement. 2 b) I think this also falls under a lot of issues the internet has with critique. Mainly "If I don't personally like it that must mean it's bad" which Lily constantly champions. How this connects to rewatchability is the flawed idea that you don't actually like something if you don't want to experience it multiple times. To go back and be more broad again: There is going to be a time when you encounter something that is just Objectively Good and you simply aren't going to enjoy it. For instance, Violet Evergarden is beautifully animated, well voice acted, has a really good sountrack, and has a meaningful plot. I'm bored out of my mind whenever I watch it. It's a good series, it *really* is, but I can't make myself watch it and if I ever did I certainly would never want to rewatch it. It's ok to not enjoy things that are Objectively Good, but the internet acts like media preference is a moral failing so you can only watch things that are Objectively Good and if you didn't like something it must be Objectively Bad and you need to justify that. 2 c)Lily kind of intentionally cuts herself off from exploring new media. Often times she will hear a recommendation and then actively avoid that series. Because of this aversion to actually try out new content she *needs* whatever she tries to be rewatchable to her, otherwise she doesn't get any "long term benefit" of being able to add something to her tiny pile of "Things [she] can reliably watch and enjoy". 3) Sometimes spoilers *are* ok, but this doesn't mean they're always ok. There are a lot of series that are really good but just start out bad or simply don't have an interesting enough hook at the start. In those instances, mild spoilers do a lot more to get people to get into a series than a mere "Dude just trust me" . (I initially had an example here but that segment got way too long and tangential so I cut it). For series that *don't* have that problem, spoilers don't have any positives. 3 b) One exception is always going to be trigger warnings and just saying the genre. Some series with try a genre bait and switch in the first episode or will have a common trigger in later episodes that you don't expect just by watching the first few(i.e. blood/gore, sexual assault, etc). If you have no triggers, then congrats you never really *need* spoilers and can watch such series without any fear. For everyone else who pays attention to trigger warnings, they're always going to be mildly spoiled on the content even if their triggers aren't in the trigger warning. Same with genre listing, the bait and switch goes out the window if someone tells you upfront that it's concretely a certain genre. Instead being surprised you just wait for the "surprise twist" even if you don't know what it is. These kind of spoilers are mild, but entirely unavoidable unless you have a friend who knows your triggers/genre preferences and can recommend a series without giving anything away. All in all, Lily is just objectively wrong about spoilers, and because she keeps spoiling stuff for herself she's never going to understand how or why she's objectively wrong. I mean, there's a *reason* they're called "spoilers" and not just "things that happen later in the series".

[@Toolgirl64209]

Lilyorchard is the personification of my childhood traumas and has the personality of a conservative marvel fan

[@flavorgod]

Nah she's typical hard left liberal

[@audreyiiishotterthananyani1305]

Real

[@radiyostatic]

LITERALLY

[@Romanticoutlaw]

I mean she actually m0lested her sister, I'm surprised anyone's listening to her opinion at all

[@peiithos]

HUH??? im not familiar with her so alot of this is coming as a shock

[@momoko6917]

​@@peiithosFrom what I know Lily's younger sister has talked about how Lily used to go into her room to ejaculate on her while she was sleeping (and more stuff)

[@dr.archaeopteryx5512]

@@peiithos Believe her sibling came out as non-binary since? But yeah, they have talked about how Lily preyed on and assaulted them. They have a tumblr where they talk about their past together and it's a harrowing read, and they appeared on a couple youtube videos about Lily Orchard, too. I am really kicking myself for forgetting their name right now, I believe they might have been called Cory? It does seem they were doing better around the time they started tumblrposting about their past, which is a silver lining at least.

[@bloodbadger5332]

​@@dr.archaeopteryx5512 it's courtney peet.

[@dr.archaeopteryx5512]

@@bloodbadger5332 Right, thanks

[@LDIndustries]

From having watched a few breakdowns of other Lily Orchard reviews, ie the Steven Universe atrocity, I'm pretty certain I've figured out the exact angle Lily approaches all media from. And I'm happy to say that this video proves me right. Lily Orchard is the perfect example of why tropification of media and an unwillingness to explore new stories/"go in blind" is harmful to media analysis and media enjoyment in general. She only consumes a piece of media once she's read a taglist, decided it has tags she enjoys, made sure the ending isn't something she'd be surprised by, and fully formed an opinion and expectation on what the piece of media SHOULD be. This is what caused her to dislike Steven Universe and is the exact thing causing her to dislike Dungeon Meshi. It's the logical conclusion of people wanting a story to be one way and then being angry it wasn't that way. Similar to the experience of Star Wars headcanon-ers, once a story takes a turn that she wasn't expecting or doesn't line up with how she thinks it OUGHT to go then everything goes out the window. She doesn't judge a story based on the story itself, she judges a story based on how closely it resembles the version of the story that came to her in a dream. The worst part is now that the story is different from what Lily WANTED it to be, Lily's reviews take offense at how the story isn't what she wanted it to be. All of the supposed flaws of the story aren't just low points or unagreeable or not matching with Lily's tastes, these "flaws" are attacks by the author on Lily personally. Affronts to Lily's sensibilities that were put in the story on purpose to specifically make Lily feel bad. This is reflected in how the entire Steven Universe rant is framed with "Rebecca Sugar is evil". This is also reflected in how she poisons the well at the very top of the video by lumping Dungeon Meshi in with pedobait anime like Oreimo and Dragon Maid and saying Dungeon Meshi was inspired by Baldur's Gate like that's a point against it. Attempts to pin her dislike of the media on the connotations of other things and read bad intentions into the author. Also, as another comment said, saying Dungeon Meshi was inspired by Baldur's Gate specifically is like criticizing Star Wars by saying it was inspired by Star Trek. Sure they're part of the same genre of media and have lots of similarities in world building, but both were inspired by work that predated both of them. Dungeon Meshi was inspired by Wizardry (a cRPG that got really popular in Japan and lead to Japanese kobolds looking like dogs) and Baldur's Gate comes from modern editions of D&D. Looking back far enough the the lineages converge but you can say the same for all media. She just wants a quick and easy dunk to claim the show is "derivative". I just wonder how much longer this schtick is gonna get rises out of people before it dries up.

[@glad16252]

I actually rather like SpyxFamily and will now comment to defend it personally. It's very clear the show takes place in an inspired world of Cold War era Europe, specifically things like the 50s. Yor is an assassin, in a country that if they found out she was one, would probably have her executed. The act of her marriage and family life is what she needs to prop up the most to seem normal in this 1950s style world. Though when it comes to Anya, we've seen she genuinely cares for her, most likely because she views her in a somewhat similar light to Yuri. Someone who she needs to protect and keep safe. Her awkward social tendencies bounce off everyone else who effectively plays the straight man, but with Loid it works especially well since he too is effectively, very similar to her. He needs this marriage to work and stay stable, so her weirdness he just goes "Yep, alright" while internally screaming. This being the extent of Yor's character atm to me is fine. The story was very up front and clear that this was a story about Loid's mission infiltrating the country, and since Yor has made coincidental friends in high up places, a future arc involving the assassination of say, Damian's mother or father, could and would be interesting to explore. Because now, despite being this well trained assassin with years of no emotion training, this bit of time having an actual family and attaching to people could lead to character conflict and development. The manga is slow, I will be honest, and can definitely feel like certain things should be done at a faster rate. But it's unfortunately set up in this fashion that it may take in universe years for this mission to even be completed. Loid and Anya are the two most important characters for the series. One has a mission and the other is required for the mission to even succeed. Yor is unfortunately the third wheel to this dynamic with potential, but at the moment is sort of benched on the sidelines for the occasional comic relief. Like that time she was shot in the butt and the whole plot was Loid thinking the marriage was falling apart and he was for once acting very frantically and weird. I will say though to compare the two pieces of media like Lily did is very poor. It'd be like comparing any 4koma manga to a Junji Ito title, and then complaining the Junji Ito title drags it's feet and the characters aren't fleshed out. Two vastly different pieces of media that just get put into the same category because "Haha, made by the Japanese".

[@hilotakenaka]

To add to this; Yor’s character isn’t solely defined by her male relationships. It’s made apparent that a large part of the reason why she is the way she is isn’t just due to her having to take care of Yuri, but also because she is doing her best to follow the advice her mom gave her. It’s also pretty unfair to treat Yor and her brother’s relationship on the same level as her and Loid’s; Yor and Loid are a partnership, and Yor goes out of her way to assist her family just like Loid does. She isn’t treated like a houseservant and the manga goes out of its way to show how her and Loid are equals. Yor and Yuri on the other hand _are_ a bad relationship, and the manga doesn’t treat it as something healthy. If anything, _Yuri_ is the one who is treated with less dignity since it’s his dependence on Yor that wholly drives it, and that’s not factoring in the nuance that the reason why this happened in the first place was because Yor had to look after her baby brother after their mom died. This isn’t even getting into the fact that Yor also has steady relationships and friendships with her female coworkers and her friendship with Melinda Desmond.

[@princeapoopoo5787]

I'll be honest, as someone who doesn't pay a close attention to modern anime communities and the like, I didn't even realise SpyxFamily was so disliked until now LOL

[@hilotakenaka]

@@princeapoopoo5787 Honestly I've only seen people really like it. The only controversial thing about the series is people thinking the author hates it because of a clickbait article (the author just doesn't like how he had to design the protagonists in a way that wasn't in his design philosophy) and there's always some controversy around a small bit of fanart

[@kristinag7621]

Also Laios mentioned many times that they did so many things wrong. And he’s learned from Senshi the importance of eating well . And laios even tell Toshiro (shuro) that he’s just repeating the same mistakes they made the first time. And the whole time they become from coworkers to actual friends and to play devils advocate the voice director decides the tone of the character too. He has to do many takes of a character and the producers will decide what they want too. So like…. Yeah

[@riddlesheartahoge13]

Istg it feels like she put the "dungeon meshi manga" through chatgpt exept she made a typo like fungeon deshi so chatgpt gave her a different story because there is no way we read the same story

[@Livelaughlovepenguins]

That or she read spoilers on the wiki-