Why London’s confusing ban on junk food ads actually makes sense

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Vlog channel / evanedinger
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If you're new to my channel and videos, hi! I'm Evan Edinger, and I make weekly "comedy" videos every Sunday evening. As an American living in London I love noticing the funny differences between the cultures and one of my most popular video series is my British VS American one. I'm also known for making terrible puns so sorry in advance. Hope to see you around, and I'll see you next Sunday! :)
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[@Systemicyco01]

I do love that the original ad was replaced with a cucumber. It made the ad so much funnier.

[@firstname4337]

should have put the cucumber in the hotdog bun

[@aleks-33]

​@@firstname4337 AND ENCOURAGE PEOPLE TO EAT THOSE CARBS??? How can you SLEEP ar night! 😂

[@nicopavlou7327]

As someone who works in Out of Home advertising, I can say with a fairly high level of confidence that Ed Gamble's team didn't do it on purpose, the rules are so strange that most marketers don't fully understand them, and any agency/company based outside of London (and plenty inside London) have no idea that these rules even exist. 2 of my crazy campaigns I've had blocked for HFSS requirements are one for a (COUNCIL BASED) Recycling campaign, where it featured a jar of chocolate spread... and a healthy burger one, which featured some blurry crisps on the plate behind the burger

[@jakehowie442]

What are your biggest ads? Aldi

[@zoebenefer6149]

Ulo😊jr””&

[@christopher9727]

Jesus Christ is the only hope in this world no other gods will lead you to heaven There is no security or hope with out Jesus Christ in this world come and repent of all sins today Today is the day of salvation come to the loving savior Today repent and do not go to hell Come to Jesus Christ today Jesus Christ is only way to heaven Repent and follow him today seek his heart Jesus Christ can fill the emptiness he can fill the void Heaven and hell is real cone to the loving savior today Today is the day of salvation tomorrow might be to late come to the loving savior today Holy Spirit Can give you peace guidance and purpose and the Lord will John 3:16-21 16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. 17 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved. 18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God. 19 And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil. 20 For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved. 21 But he that doeth truth cometh to the light, that his deeds may be made manifest, that they are wrought in God. Mark 1.15 15 And saying, The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand: repent ye, and believe the gospel. 2 Peter 3:9 The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance. Hebrews 11:6 6 But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him. Jesus

[@tedioustotoro4885]

Ads for the West End musical ‘Operation Mincemeat’ were banned from the underground a few months back for a similar reason. The ads were announcing that the show’s run had been extended by showing the former closing date of the show crossed out with the new one written below it in a handwritten font, TfL banned the ads because they broke the rules on “promoting vandalism”.

[@xfreja]

wtf 💀💀💀

[@MrJimheeren]

Hahahhahaha. What assholes work there. Christ where do you find these people

[@KellyS_77]

That was a phenomenal book, I didn’t realize it was made into a musical. Kind of an odd topic for musical theatre though.

[@tedioustotoro4885]

@@KellyS_77 It’s a really fun show from what I’ve seen. It has a really small cast which really adds to the charm.

[@dyslexicfinch]

Oh yeah I remember that!

[@MarceldeJong]

It’s still weird to argue that a poster for a comedy show is actually advertising food. There’s no Hot Ed Gamble Dog for sale anywhere.

[@stevemichael8458]

The real irony is that the furore around the original poster has brought Ed Gamble's show, and Hot Dogs themselves, to the attention of millions of people who otherwise wouldn't have noticed either. I'm not sure that's what TFL was aiming for!! :D

[@MarceldeJong]

@@stevemichael8458 it’s very clever marketing

[@nathan87]

Ed Gamble Hot Dog is available for sale....for the right price

[@aj7058]

You can promote something without making an ad for it.

[@tinnagigja3723]

@@stevemichael8458 Yes, I certainly had never heard of these "hot dogs" until now.

[@paddywan]

The subtraction system is really weird. It's like saying it is okay to punch a child if you give them a hug and something to eat afterwards.

[@davidioanhedges]

If the points are too high then you don't get to take points off ... so you can gently shake, but not punch as long as you hug them ...

[@hannahk1306]

I think it kind of does make sense though, as it's about balance - a bacon sandwich with lettuce and tomato is definitely healthier than a plain bacon sandwich; even the plain bacon sandwich is more nutritious than just a lard and salt sandwich (essentially bacon without the protein element). I think the point of the restrictions is just to ban the worst offenders, not to stop any products being advertised at all. Within a healthy balanced diet, having one fast food burger is fine - you just need to balance it out in your overall lifestyle. I'm not saying that the rules are perfect, because I can definitely think of a few amendments. However, the balancing the nutrition of a product does make some sense.

[@paddywan]

@@hannahk1306 I agree that the overall balance is important. I think the system needs to be revamped though, since it seems very skewed and taken advantage of, so that clearly unhealthy foods are being advertised. they should also definetely ban comercials for alcohol etc.

[@hannahk1306]

@@paddywan I agree it needs tweaking, but I don't think the purpose is to ban "unhealthy" foods altogether. The ads I think should definitely be banned though are ones for gambling, as they serve absolutely no purpose other than to make money, mostly from unwell or vulnerable people. Especially their stupid slogan, "when the fun stops: stop". The point is that for anyone with an addiction, it doesn't really stop being fun and even if it does they're often not in a position to realise it's crossed a line into unhealthy behaviour.

[@zoeziebee]

It definitely seems like the weighting is off given they get so many negative points for the ‘healthy’ elements but not that many positive points for the unhealthy

[@darriendastar3941]

In 12 years' time, when you run for Mayor of London, Evan, I want to be part of your campaign team. I learn more about my home city by watching your vids every Sunday than I've learnt from living in the damn place for almost all my life. The amount of research you put into these videos is just drop dead impressive. Thank you for all the hard work.

[@paxperbellum1661]

I work in retail and the regulations for displays inside shops lead to interesting outcomes. Bacon on the end of an aisle? Bacon within 4 metres of the end of an aisle? Actually, totally forbidden because it’s high in fat. So we put cream there instead, which is even higher in fat but doesn’t count. Certain flavours of pringles are OK, some are not. They’re right on the ragged edge and the sour cream flavour is just a step too far.

[@hannahk1306]

What if it's one of those mini supermarkets and the aisle is less than 8 metres long? 😆 Are they just never allowed to sell bacon, etc or are there exceptions?

[@paxperbellum1661]

@@hannahk1306 Anything under 3000sqft is not a 'supermarket' but a convenience store, and isn't covered. This also applies to Sunday trading regulations.

[@yurisei6732]

My local Morrison's is breaking the law then, bacon right next sausages at the end of the meat aisle.

[@paxperbellum1661]

@@yurisei6732 So is mine. Doughnuts and cookies right near the door. Shocking criminality.

[@TheS4rr]

What’s wild is that bacon isn’t even unhealthy. Natural fats aren’t bad for you, mostly just the processed ones…

The most effective way for promoting breakfast cereals wasn’t billboards but Hollywood movies and American TV shows.

[@ang91100]

I love your new investigative journalism era!!

[@estarx]

I find it silly that alcohol is written off as its high calories and can impact health in so many ways. Also ALL of these ads disregard what would be considered on TV as some things arent been able to be shown before 9pm, and believe that this list is soon to be/has been increased recently

[@Yetaxa]

The weirdest thing about alcohol here is that despite all the laws on clear labelling and many foods having the traffic light system, most alcohol doesn't even have the alcohol listed anywhere. The warnings about impact to health, number of units (and the healthy limits) are hidden in small print on the back. We really love our alcohol

[@yurisei6732]

Well sure, but alcoholism is the UK national passtime.

[@fetchstixRHD]

-Wait, is alcohol actually allowed on TfL advertisements? Mind you, I don't think it's been something I've looked out for or noticed the presence or absence of, but I would be surprised if it were allowed...- Edit: 10:08 so it is. Well, interesting, guess a lesson in not commenting while watching!

[@jackieknows9129]

Ironic that Ed Gamble post was banned over food issue when Ed does it who is open about his type one diabetes often does podcasts and shows where he discusses having to closely watch what he eats

[@TPHRyan]

Also is like, the opposite of obesity, because he used to be more overweight than he is (making no comments about how healthy he is/was, just the general goal the UK seems to have of reducing obesity)

[@thedanalcantara]

This was WAY more fascinating than I expected

[@mytube001]

A problem with fiber counting as healthy is that manufacturers add inulin to bread or various liquids and sauces to boost the fiber content. Inulin counts as fiber, tastes almost nothing and is very cheap. The problem is that for many, inulin causes extreme gastrointestinal distress, since it breaks down into huge amounts of gas in the gut. The first time I had a food item with inulin added, I literally (yes, I really mean literally!) thought I would die. My entire abdomen ached so bad that I couldn't get up from bed, and I thought it was a heart attack. After an hour or so, the pain subsided enough that I could get up. I didn't know then what had caused it. So I had the same food again a week later, and the same thing happened. I then realized the connection, and now avoid inulin like it's a poison.

[@calypsoc3630]

Great point! Only natural fibre should count - I mean wholegrain bread has fibre in it just becuase that's how grain works - but for some reason someone decided white bread should have fake fibre added in to make it seem more healthy :P

[@andresmartin1847]

That's really interesting. What was the food with the inulin, was it a restaurant/fast food one?

[@joz534]

@@calypsoc3630 Inulin is a natural fiber.

[@shwing1428]

​@joz534 I think they mean fibre naturally found in the food and not stuff added in to increase the amount of fibre unnaturally.

[@kamo7293]

bruh I'm British and I didn't know this. but you know what's horse wallop about the whole thing, besides the fact that it sets hfss scores like weight watchers points, is that the company, in this case KFC, sells other food that would be deemed too high in fat sugar salt, and an ad for KFC will just entice someone to go there and they would end up buying those other products. what they should do is that if *any* product in a companies line up fails this score, then none of their products can be advertised, but we all know that money is the reason they wouldn't do that 9:35 and you said it. it's the sneaky way they do it

[@yurisei6732]

Then supermarkets could never advertise because they sell bags of pure granulated sugar - which is a perfectly reasonable thing to sell. This is just bad regulation, it's OK to expect people to practice a degree of personal responsibility and not shovel food down their gullets just because they saw it on a poster. What should actually be done is require nutritional information to be displayed prominently on advertising.

[@fetchstixRHD]

@@yurisei6732: Was about to make a similar point, that supermarkets would likely not be allowed to have advertisements as per the wording of the OP.

[@durabelle]

I want to start a new healthy diet movement based on this scoring system! The rules of the diet are that you can pack whatever you want onto your plate as long as the combined sugar, salt and fat score is no higher than 9 points. Then add veggies and lean proteins worth of at least 5 points, so that you can say the food is healthy. Eat and repeat. In the end of the day you're totally fine, regardless of what you fill your plates with and how many dishes you eat. Healthy eating at it's best!

[@Bozebo]

Funny thing is if that filled you up for a long time so you had less meals overall and particularly less or no snacks, it would work.

[@yurisei6732]

You jest but this is exactly how diet movements work. They all give you an excuse to be able to eat as much as you want of whatever you want, by saying it's fine as long as you avoid the one bad thing, be that carbohydrates or fats or lunchtime. You can't sell a diet fad that says "just eat less and exercise more, tubby", because people don't actually want to lose weight, they just want to not feel ashamed about their gluttony.

[@durabelle]

@@yurisei6732 Huh, you may be right. Or at least most of the ones I've heard of are built around restricting one thing, whether it's fat or carbs or snacks, or in some cases eating outside of certain time limits. There are some point based systems like the weight watchers that to my understanding are actually based on counting calories, but I know many people struggle with those since diet food often tastes bland and boring. I've never tried any diets myself, just no need to lose weight due to my work being so physical and my mind getting easily stressed which puts me off food. But I have basically no self control or ability to stick to routines so I could not follow any diets even if I tried. I don't blame people for losing control, but I do hate all of these fad diets built around arbitrary rules with no science behind them.

[@Pandefly]

Makes sense in that, sure, they're following their own rules, which I guess is good. But also doesn't make sense because the rules haven't been thought through. These rules should only apply to advertisements that are FOR food or restaurants to really be sensible

[@Xeroph-5]

Yeah..... this is definitely a good issue to cover. The rules are pretty sketchy at best

[@digitig]

Actually, it seems they're not the least bit sketchy. They're very precise, probably to avoid TfL getting tied up in legal disputes over what they ban. It's that very precision that means they can't take what we might think is the reasonable decision.

@@digitig They are "precise" in a wishy-washy approximate legal sense, not actually _precise._ They cannot be really precise because you have to evaluate a display, and that's messy and imprecise. They are just precise enough *looking* (and looking refers to the lawyers looking the rules over) to -CYA CtheirAes for TFL.

[@hugh1997]

No, they are incredibly legally precise. Just because the outcome doesn’t always seem empirically sensible does not mean the calculations are not clear and precise.

[@4AMO4]

I like how he calls normal coke "full fat".

[@LiqdPT]

My wife refers to it as "leaded", referring back to when you could get leaded and unleaded gasoline 40 years ago

[@DuyLeNguyen]

It's pretty common here to refer to normal Coke as 'full fat'. I hear it frequently

[@sneakndmolishtv2779]

Pretty common in the UK at least

[@jwb52z9]

@@LiqdPT The US still sold leaded gas until January 1st of 1996.

[@LiqdPT]

@@jwb52z9 I was in Canada and couldn't remember if I still had the choice when I started driving in 1991. So I guessed at late-80s/early 90s and rounded

[@LauraDora124]

Petition to get Evan on the “off the menu” podcast 👏

[@blindedbliss]

HEY! You need to include a link to the petition you made, for people to sign...

[@merrymachiavelli2041]

This seems like one of those absurdities that inevitably crops up when you try to make a policy like 'no advertising unhealthy food on the underground' and actually make it into concrete practice. I imagine it's just simpler to say 'no unhealthy food, whatever the context of the advert' than to write a whole bunch of rules trying to pin down what counts as a food advert, in such a way that fast food companies won't just try to weasel around it.

[@joncelso2369]

The Coke Zero bit reminded me about the debate here in Ireland around 0.0 alcohol ads that are appearing where alcohol ads are banned, including all over the Aviva Stadium, for example, during the highly watched Six Nations rugby. While the 0.0 drinks may not pose a harm in of itself, the branding is worrying from a few angles (e.g. alcoholics, children). It'll be interesting to see if that gets addressed anytime soon. Probably not, but who knows.

[@lindastaines8288]

Alternatively it is great that these brands are now providing an alcohol free option and advertising the fact so that people are aware that there is a choice

[@j.rinker4609]

It seems like a much more complex version of something like the glycemic index. It does make sense that eating something high in protein and fiber could be a good idea even if it has some fat/sugar/salt that makes it more palatable.

[@AntonoirJacques]

The irony is a movie like Super Size Me which helps point out obesity problems wouldnt be able to be advertised as it has lots of fries on the poster.

[@opaqueentity]

Although the additional irony is that it was all faked

[@blindedbliss]

Is this one of the shows where they put people through a regime, without long term follow ups? Cause that's proven not to work.

[@heykak]

this video gave me flashbang to me realising all the alcohol ads i got both on my pc and around when I studied in england... you can not advertise alcohol in Norway, so it was like a synapse connected

[@davidioanhedges]

You can't advertise smoking in the UK in the same way

[@hannahk1306]

​@@davidioanhedges Or prescription medication. The American TV ads are wild! Why would I ask my doctor to prescribe me something specific? They're the experts, so need to suggest the options with the pros and cons for me to pick from. It's different if you have a rare or less understood condition and someone in say a support group tells you about something that helped them, then you take that to the doctor and ask, "Do you think this would help me too?". But, just random advertising of medication doesn't make sense to me.

[@seijika46]

I'd say a blanket ban on food and drink advertising would be a great deal more effective but ho hum. Another UK interesting advertising issue has come up in the shape of a loophole allowing political advertising on UK streaming services (which ITV is actively considering). Its long been banned from television but the law has not been updated for more modern viewing. Part of the reason why it was not seen as necessary to update the law was that campaign finance limits would have made it difficult to afford such expensive advertising...except Michael Gove quietly doubled it for the two main parties (leaving 'lesser' parties shafted). Another sign of the 'Americanisation' of our politics I suppose.

[@mrj1329]

An utterly pedantic point (but you seem to enjoy those sorts of things); the italics probably denote "this is text that was changed in the most recent version of this document". It makes lawyer's jobs easier when checking the latest versions of by-laws so they can quickly identify what new stuff their clients have to now comply with. Personally I prefer change bars on the side but however TFL choose to do it is up to them. Note though I may also be entirely wrong here...

[@fetchstixRHD]

Considering TfL are used to (operational) rule books, where that format is used, it would make sense to carry it over...

[@bec324]

I haven't watched you in ages but I am going to watch Ed gamble tour (front row ahhh!!) So I ran to this video and omg I love your new structure/format, can't wait to binge more of your vids 😝✌

[@evan]

Welcome back!

[@TalesOfWar]

The lack of protein in the Five Guys hot dog really shows how little meat is in the things. Thus adding to the "scraped off the floor of the slaughter house" aspect of how they're made lol.

[@evan]

It’s not that there’s no protein, it’s that because it has SO much saturated fat and salt, the protein is not subtracted from the score

[@susanperry4134]

He is really advertising the stupid Hot Dog he's advertising his podcast right.

[@TanakaMatsumoto]

It's 2 grams less than the kfc burgers, not exactly nothing. It's a hotdog vs chicken too.. I don't know how that shows how little meat is in it.... there's little meat in that chicken burger then... it's 2 grams you probably wouldn't even notice a 2 gram difference in your hand.

[@0causton0]

@@susanperry4134 watch the video ok

[@kamo7293]

​@@susanperry4134brother you did not watch the video. just go from 0:00 to 12:12 and you'll know why

[@Pindolene]

Yeah as soon as I heard about the ban, I was confused. I saw Maccies adverts all over the place when I was there only last weekend.

[@richt71]

Thanks Evan. I love your deep dive subject matter vids.

[@maxb148]

The Coke Zero sugar adverts where it is more used as an advert for nomral coke because of the rules is like how Alcohol brands will advert their non-alcoholic drinks where they cant advertise their alcohol (for example at car racing events because drinking and driving is bad) but everyone knows that they are just there to promote the overall brand rather than that specific drink.

[@jacekatalakis8316]

I'm old enough to remember when Labatts had quite literal anti drink driving slogans in their company colours on the side of andy Rouse's Sierra Cosworth RS500 touring car among others. So he'd be bombing around Silverstone in the BTCC and you'd see Don't Drink and Drive on the side of the car, on both sides in the blue and white company colours, all the while quite a few of the BTCC drivers of that era in the 80s/early 90s were hammered or hungover behind the wheel, thanks to the drivers of that era for revealing the secrets of how things were.

[@lynette.]

Excellently explained.

[@BongSc0pe]

huh nice note from coke, did have the thought of why coke zero ads are common but can't recall a regular coke ad

[@FullaEels]

this feels like the sugar tax, a hamfisted approach to something they had good intentions for

[@mytube001]

Funny thing about the Coca Cola ads. Now, I don't drink that stuff, but around my parts (not in the UK), the sugar variant is almost gone. You'll find a few different non-sugar ones, with different artificial sweeteners (why they can't stick to one instead of the maybe five they have, I don't understand, but hey). Same with the other Coca-Cola brands, like Fanta. Almost impossible to buy sugar-only - even the ones with sugar have artificial sweeteners so there is less sugar in them.

[@maxximumb]

Evan you didn't look very hard for the KFC neutritional information. It's on their website. I don't think KZbin lets us post links but if you go to their UK website and add a backslash and nutrition-allergens?close to the URL you get the info. You can then click on the red BURGERS button and then the red Switch to Nutritional Information button and Bob's your uncle.

[@evan]

Oh no I did find that. The issue is the UK site does NOT tell you the nutritional information PER 100g. AND it doesn’t show you the average weight of the item so you can’t work it out backwards. The only thing I could do was either go buy one and weigh it (nah) or use the NZ one (ye)

[@annepoitrineau5650]

Thank you for the research. Really enjoyed this video.

[@evan]

Glad you enjoyed it!

[@georgeretsides4293]

I think one key thing missing is the presence of harmful fat oxidation byproducts in fried foods which can increase oxidative stress.

[@HonestWatchReviewsHWR]

The whole subtraction system is so stupid. Just because it has some protein in it, that doesn't change the fact that it's full of salt and fat though. That's like saying, I can eat as much ice cream as I want, as long as I eat it with celery. Or going to an all you can eat buffer, then saying it's fine, because I'm only drinking water though 🤦‍♂

[@andybrice2711]

I think actually all those things do make some sense though (albeit maybe not taken to quite those extremes). It is useful to measure macronutrients as a proportion of the total mass or caloric content of a foodstuff. Sugar does have a lower effective glycemic index if you consume it with plenty of fibre. And cutting out sugary drinks does have a major positive impact on people's nutrition.

[@nathan87]

I mean did they forget the "or indirectly"? A KFC ad for one burger absolutely indirectly promotes everything else KFC sell, just like the Coke Zero Sugar ads.

[@AliesterOld]

I think intent should be in TFL's advertising rules, the ban on the comedy tour poster is ridiculous as its selling the the show not the hotdogs and so (reasonable) people will focus on what the adverts main message as that's what the adverts job is, (if people focused on the food more then the show then the advert would be a bad advert) also ed gamble had no gain from reminding you of hotdogs as he dosent sell any/make money off it compared to coke which does sneaky use the zero brand to get away as said but the intent is to not just sell coke zero but also influence to buy coke as you said not everyone is gonna see the zero especially on busy rush hour, they do also have a gain in reminding you of coke brand and fizzy drinks in general which will also influence coke sales.

[@matthewf5914]

not gonna lie, i wish we had this in Canada. sometimes i see an A&W ad and start craving some rarely let into that temptation but still. thank you for this video!

[@bryn494]

And right when he's discussing the points for the KFC burger up pops an ad for... a McCrispy burger :D

[@Ellie-rx3jt]

Surely if a pack of uncooked bacon or a wheel of cheese is HFSS non compliant, a slice of bacon or cheese in a burger is also HFSS non compliant. What they've done is made it legal to advertise fast food, but not to advertise those same ingredients for home cooking 😂🤦🏻‍♀️

[@jeremyh9033]

Somebody should make an ad using a deconstructed burger, that assembled would be allowed, but unassembled has ingredients that would make it banned. Just to highlight the absurdity of the rules.

[@felikso]

right - I feel like there should also be a thing of "the food has to have 3+ ingredients" or similar for it to even be eligible to be banned. otherwise people who only sell One Product, that happens to be high in fat or sugar or salt (including... people selling oils, or sugar, or salt) are not allowed to advertise. even if most people with a healthy diet would eat all of those products most weeks.

[@GenericInternetter]

Oh you sweet innocent soul. The very British way of doing things is instead of outright admitting that money or power is the motive, they shove in a middle-man stepping stone to use as the "filter". It's the same as how it's perfectly fine for landlords to pay multiple mortgages using rent money from welfare recipients, but it's prohibited for those very welfare recipients to have their own mortgage. In that example the welfare recipients are the stepping stone between the taxpayer dollar and the landlords' bank accounts. Once you see this mechanism everywhere, it cannot be unseen.

[@yurisei6732]

Per 100 grams is just the wrong way to go about this, it's only useful when comparing foods eaten in the same quantity. That's why we've tried to make nutritional information have to be listed both per 100g and per portion. Those burger ads wouldn't be allowed either if it was per portion, because while a burger may be less sugary, salty or fatty per mouthful than a hot dog, you're going to eat more total burger than you eat total hotdog because burgers are bigger.

[@daranphilipson1025]

This video was so interesting I endured 30 seconds of advertisements to watch it.

I endure an adblocker…

[@fabe61]

The calculation system may make some sense, but I think if the system allows fast food chains to advertise things like KFC burgers or chips, then the system isn’t working properly (in terms of public interest).

[@MazTheMeh16]

Discounting points for protein (especially that much) is fucking ridiculous 😭

Everything is deadly and evil.

[@Schemilix]

Protein should NOT count to reduce scores is what I'm learning. Most Westerners get too much protein as it is, especially omnivores. Unless you have a reason to need extra protein (you're bulking or have a very labour-heavy job) extra protein won't do much for you, though it contributes to feeling sated. I'm in the 'eat what you damn well please' camp but I do find advertisements on the way home for unhealthy food tend to ake me hungrier. I don't then go and buy what they advertised out of sheer pique, but someone might. And it did make me hungrier, which may mean I ate more than I was going to, which if you're someone who needs to manage your food intake for whatever reason, is harder.

[@apttodo]

"Ed took a gamble". Hehehehe.

[@christopherwaller2798]

Personal view is that if the food item is secondary to the actual item being advertised or is a small part of an ensemble of food items, the HFSS food should be disregarded.

[@nienke7713]

Initially I thought it might be something about ads that aren't directly for the food aren't allowed to feature it (as to make these foods less normalised into the culture), or that a celibrity isn't allowed to advertise fast food (because some people take celebreties as role models and might be more inclined to follow their lead)

[@JennaGetsCreative]

The cucumber cheese ad was clever! Very cute. I wasn't gonna comment but you said it so many times... how is a soda "full fat?" You keep using that phrase to contrast to the sugar free soda, but there aren't really fats in soda. It's not yogurt. It's "full sugar," even though nobody says that.

[@evan]

It’s a funny colloquial expression

[@hannahk1306]

It's a common expression here in the UK, but you're right it makes no sense and I don't know why people use it. The only thing I can think of is that when these products came about, people were already used to using the phrase "full fat" for things like milk, but "full sugar" had never been a thing so people just adopted the existing phrase?

[@TELBOYO10]

The main branding difference between coke zero and full fat is the colour of the font. Zero is black and full fat is white

[@Sophie_Cleverly]

The veggie burger problem is interesting. I've noticed a bit of a trend of veggie fast food products being introduced and then being taken away again not long after. I wonder if not being able to advertise them as much is part of the problem?

[@davidioanhedges]

Veggie burgers are often extremely high in fat, salt and sugar - and are highly processed - Vegetarian food doesn't need to be like this but when it's trying to taste like meat it often is

[@hannahk1306]

These rules only apply in London, so I doubt that lack of advertising would affect the overall UK sales of a product. It's probably just that they don't sell well.

[@WhichDoctor1]

the wedding cake poster should have just put a little logo saying the cake was a zero sugar pea protein cake :p

[@aussie405]

It was probably a completely inedible prop, mostly made of polystyrene.

[@davimurph]

Side note: I'm a type 1 diabetic (as is, co-incidentally, Ed Gamble). That means that I (or, more specifically, my immune system) decided that the best way to keep me alive would be to irreversibly destroy a vital part of a vital organ. The result is that my body no longer produces its own insulin. Because insulin is essential to metabolise any form of carbohydrate, I need to inject insulin. The only way for me to know how much to inject is to know how much carbohydrate I am eating. The best way to do that is to check the nutrition information. I can guess if I have to, but my guesses aren't great and can result in dangerous mistakes. (My family are better at guessing than I am, but they are still only guessing). That's why type 1 diabetics love chain restaurants. Chains usually publish their nutrition information. The bigger the chain, the more likely it is that they will have nutrition information. Which makes me wonder why, in the name of all that is high in fat, sugar and salt you had to go to an actual antipode to get nutritional information about a product being sold in London! Wellington is (fun fact) the furthest world capital from London. Why is KFC, one of the world's biggest chain restaurants, making you go to New Zealand to get vital nutrition information?

[@oskarz]

something to note is that the obesity rates did actually go down. I don't remember the exact source but I've been taught this at school lol

[@bobtheskutterbot]

Is anyone else just staring at the plant pot on the desk and worrying that Evan's gesticulation will knock it onto the floor? (only joking, was also interested in the piece- nice breakdown of how rules go rogue).

[@yakumorisuke9403]

I'd heard that London had some weird advertising rule, but this is ridiculous. It sounds like the sort of thing someone thought seemed like a smart idea, and then didn't stop to consider it any further. Why didn't they just go with the supermarket-style colour coding that's on food? If too many are red, it can't be advertised??

[@MissesLykaa]

Still not sure how these comedy show and theatre posters are getting banned because in the same rules you showed it clearly states: "It is for the advertiser to demonstarte that any product is not HFSS, and/or that an advertisement is not promoting HFSS products [..]". Clearly, these posters are not adverstising HFSS products but a theatre performance, so despite an HFSS product being in the image, it is not being advertised as "buy this hot dog".

[@davidt-rex2062]

The idea is the image puts a suggestion in your head. There may be multiple and unintentional messages. Look at apple and crushing creatives due to the rise of ai. It's sometimes hard to understand what people will actually take from an advert.

@@davidt-rex2062 But that press is front and center of the ad, it *is* the ad, not something like a hotdog on a table in front of a comedian. It's "leading role" vs "supporting role".

[@CarysCreatesThings]

I was so confused because I lived in London and I was sure I’d seen that Ed Gamble ad. Then I realised I’d only seen it on street posters, and not on buses or the underground.

[@hugh1997]

I don’t know. That hot dog certainly makes me want to go and get one 🤤

[@alexandratrethewey7465]

While I’m sure the conclusion with the points system is still “they got it under 4” using NZ nutritional information could put you way off. I know there’s an insane difference between Australian and US products so its quite possible to have a huge difference between NZ and UK.

[@sergeantneko]

"Fat, salt, or sugar" So... pretty much all the food

[@DylanSargesson]

It seems like the NPM doesn't really make much sense, but that's not TfL's fault. It's good they have a consistent policy, and it makes sense they'd use a framework from the Department of Health that's commonly used across government and elsewhere. Public Health England launched a review consultation on updating the model in 2018 - you can read the responses to it on the government website - but it seems to me that they (or Ministers) never actually responded to it with a new model or an explanation as to why they wanted to keep the current one (the website says they're still analysing the feedback, but that's obviously not true - especially as PHE was disbanded in 2021).

[@clairem3792]

Could you link the FOI request?

[@randomness051]

I knew you were gonna say it's because of the protein in the chicken, what a loophole. Video idea for you if you need one - can you do a video on this new law coming in about young people not being able to buy cigarettes because the age is going up by a year every year? (or something like that. I haven't looked into it, but I've heard it several times and everytime I'm like 'how would that even work?'. Seems like the perfect video for you to do your deep dive research on and give your opinions on

[@machematix]

That was going to be NZ, but our new right-wing government has scrapped it "to fund tax cuts"(for the wealthy)

[@bengtandersson2649]

In Sweden they did ads on tv for low alc beer 2,1% but they were never available in stores but the stronger 4+ % beer is available at Systembolaget Goverment alcohol shop.

[@beauthestdane]

Even "healthy" low fat hotdogs, like Hebrew National 97% fat free still have a ton of sodium, enough to boost the score by 10, add to that the 1 for Sat Fat, and 1 for calories, and it is at 12, so no subtracting the 5 points for protein.

[@yasdrums]

Isn’t a problem with the points system the fact that it’s based on 100 grams of the food(obviously they’ve done it so it’s easy to compare products). So 100 grams could be a lot more or less than the typical portion size of it, meaning it could be allowed because it looks like it’s healthier than what it actually is and vice versa

[@LordHorst]

Huh, what would Evan's secret ingredient be on the Off Menu podcast? Evian water (because it's similar to the name "Evan")? Hot Dogs? Little green owls cooked in mint sauce?

[@evan]

omg I didn't think of that and now I'm scared I have enough online for them to totally get me! Well if I somehow get on

[@apfsl]

would be cool a edinger's video explaining calculus 😂

[@clairefuzipeg1983]

I haven't watched one of your videos for a while, and your accent has become slightly more British, specifically south London 😘

[@LETMELOGON3HTC]

If you actually took the per 100g value of all the foods combined in that grocery advert, I'm sure it' would be perfectly fine

[@HeartlessFall37]

The haircut makes him look like a cross between Tyler Oakley and Keith from the try guys

[@dylnpickl846]

While I agree with advertising restrictions because marketing has become a disgusting beast which preys on the anxieties and addictions of a burnout population, I disagree with the rhetoric around obesity as a primary problem. Everyone I know who struggles with weight problems has an underlying mental health issue(s) which if given adequate treatment would assist in the lifestyle changes needed to make lasting changes in weight. Additionally, the majority of people I know with weight problems are living with an eating disorder specifically, whether they are under or over weight. And finally, being underweight is more dangerous to one's health than being overweight and yet I rarely see these dangers discussed or advised against. As a woman who couldnt eat due to physical issues, my doctors praised me for being underweight, and so did all my so called family and friends. Now that I am back to a healthy weight and no longer bedridden, I've been called fat by the same people. Obesity is not a primary problem, it is a symptom, and it is less worrisome than the other end of the weight spectrum.

[@isladurrant2015]

Talking of advertising and Ed Gamble... fecking gambling companies/lotteries adverts are more damaging to society imho.

[@gabrielarrhenius6252]

They should ban stuff hurting others not youself (smoking)

[@martineyles]

That's already banned legally across the UK, so TFL don't need extra rules for it.

[@lindastaines8288]

There is no advertising tobacco products

[@auntlynnie]

I’m really hoping you’re referring to regular Coke as “full-fat” in an ironic way.

[@nataliec6041]

That’s what we call it. We know there’s no fat in it, but it is commonly known as Fat Coke.

[@lindastaines8288]

No that’s what we call it

[@mark1282]

I didn't know any of these rules existed. How silly!

[@rachelgates509]

I paused and read these advertisement guidelines and was particularly interested in this one: (n) it promotes a party political cause or electioneering. Advertisements must conform to Tf's policy on use of resources, with particular care exercised in pre-election periods; And according to Siri, electioneering is defined as, “ Active and energetic participation in the activities of an election campaign” so… why can’t an environmentalist put up posters promoting an end to drilling for fossil fuels, for example?! I really dislike this rule!!!

[@Bozebo]

That rule could be easily used for industrial espionage too. Nothing stopping you running for an elected position and making a point of your campagin to be something regarding the company you want to get banned off TFL. Though with Siri's definition they wouldn't be "active" in that political side so perhaps that does cover it.

[@dhamp_]

So, I can speak to this. The actions of charities around politics elections is *strictly* regulated by the Charity Commision. Charities are only allowed to engage in politics as it directly relates to their charitable purpose - Greenpeace, for example, can lobby parliament for or against certain policies, but they cannot broadly criticise a party or politician for not supporting their policies or aims. They also can't support a party or politician. It *must* be limited to the policies. Once an election has been called, Charities have even tighter reins and greater scrutiny. As a result, charitable advertising winds up only being vague "support us because of these bad things", because permanent adverts that aren't in their direct control can land them in hot water if they're more specifically targeted on new policies. Also, it's damn expensive for little returns. No-one is allowed to just "put up a poster", not least because of fashy bad actors who love to do that, but also put razor blades behind them, so whoever removes the poster cuts their hands to shreds. All advertising goes through TFL, and it ain't cheap.

[@mattymerr701]

Governments still lagging thinking fat = body fat

[@topilinkala1594]

At least UK has foregone the alcohol causes obesity bs that is fed elsewhere.

[@teeborg1519]

They should also ban HeloFresh and all the other ads too..

[@1010Lone]

The subtraction system seems ridiculous

Yeah, "the protein magically neutralizes the sodium" is not how this stuff works.

[@Secretname951]

The funny thing is that saturated fats are way better for you than unsaturated fats.

[@tinnagigja3723]

This frame rate gives me a headache. Is this the future?

[@supertrooper6011]

The rules on the tube are hard to keep up with... you can't stare for too long... apparantly you can stab multiple times though... very confusing.

[@k.constantine]

Fat and salt are fine as long as it's not industrial toxic waste seed oils, so all fast food and 99.99% of processed foods are OUT.

[@fifinoir]

Vaping isn’t healthier, we just have less data than smoking of its long term effects as it’s not been around long enough to measure. Also, the short term effects of vaping appear to be worse than smoking.

[@artspooner]

I like the shorter hair look!!

[@xavmanisdabestest]

As silly as the hot dog and wedding cake are for breaking the rules of advertising it is genuinely insane how much evidence we have for subliminal marketing being really freaking effective in changing peoples buying habits so I 100% believe this makes more of a difference than it might look.

[@cern1999sb]

This video made me want a hot dog

[@DarrenMansell]

What a load of nonsense the HFSS formula is. Just because something is higher protein doesn't mean it's not also high in fat, salt and sugar.

[@Ramonatho]

I think the only thing I disagree on is the point that this is being done solely for good. It seems like a convenient distraction from the alcohol and tobacco stuff.

[@mobster24451]

I find it all kinda ridiculous personally let people make their own decisions

[@punditgi]

Great video! 😊

[@evan]

Thanks! 😊

[@allanjmcpherson]

Seeing how those scores work out just make me think that scale is poorly calibrated.