Why Mecca is so damning to Islam - M2M Conference

Mecca, the city which the 'Standard Islamic Narratives' (SIN) say is where Islam began, and a city which has existed since the time of Adam and Eve, turns out to have no water, nor vegetation, no people, and most importantly, no history until 741 AD, or later. So why was it ever chosen as the Holy city of Islam?
In this talk Jay debunks any notion that there was a place called Mecca at all during the time of Muhammad, or even before, using historical evidence from the 7th century, and before...see if you agree...
He concludes by suggesting that without Mecca Muslims are going to have a difficult time supporting their 'Standard Islamic Narrative'.
Why?
Without the City, Mecca, they don't have the Man (Muhammad), and without the Man they don't have the Book (the Qur'an).
In fact, without any of the three; the book, the man, or the place, they no longer have Islam, as that wipes away the very foundations for that faith, and everything Muslim need to believe.
In fact, this forces the whole edifice of Islam to come crashing down, and irrevocably fall to pieces.
Consequently, in order to build it back up again, Muslims are now going to have to find historical evidence for this city from the 7th century, which will then force them to find similar evidence from that same century for their prophet and their book as well.
Remember, from the 7th century, not the 9th - 10th centuries...good luck...
I have a better solution; why not simply come on home...
© Pfander Centre for Apologetics - US, 2021
(56,560) Music: "Dawn of Glory" by Rafael Krux, from filmmusic-io

[@christwitness847]

The Standard Islamic Narrative (SIN) is really a sin.

[@hallo5538]

Hhheee really.

[@keksione7235]

Do Pagans like Jay know there is no historical evidence for existence of Jesus BESIDE BIBLE??? See that means Jesus did not exist because Bible is only one making such claim. There is no actual evidence Jesus existed. See how that works.......this is why Bible says Christians should not dabble with MYTHOLOGIES and MAKES GUESSES but rely on faith but this fraud Jay does not obey own Bible let alone Quran.

[@justaminute3111]

KeksiOne actually, Josephus Flavius mentions Jesus of Nazareth. So, you are wrong there. And either the Bible is false or it is not. You can't have it both ways.

[@JacobAdewumi]

@@keksione7235 The Standard Islamic Narrative (SIN) has holes in it....And Dr. Jay is helping them fill those holes.. But when you take a deep dive.... then you will find the holes are getting bigger and bigger with every passing moment.... Jesus is LORD! page last updated 23 M

[@sidprice6214]

@@JacobAdewumi Simple things Jay cannot even get right such as Abraham in Ur not Mecca - yet you still believe him. There is no cure for this type of stupidity. The only holes getting bigger are the ones in your knowledge and understanding. i think Lord Jesus would be quite disappointed in your lack of knowledge and conduct.

[@Speakers154]

I know it is an overused phrase but: that was epic! It wasn't a volley of shots, it was a decimation of the SIN! Good job, Jay!

[@kafirlindaclark6148]

You took the words from my mouth Mel! EPIC! God bless you!

[@bobfisher1909]

Love you brother Mel, I see your channel been silent, hope to see you up again making that SIN hole get bigger...GBU.

[@Speakers154]

@@bobfisher1909 I'm busy doing research. I will be back with two separate videos later this week. 👍 Thank you for kind words of support!

[@truthsayer4460]

Jay's study on Islam and Mecca is incomplete as well as derailed. He writes, "Mecca, the city which the 'Standard Islamic Narratives' (SIN) say is where Islam began, and a city which has existed since the time of Adam and Eve, turns out to have no water, nor vegetation, no people, and most importantly, no history until 741 AD, or later. So why was it ever chosen as the Holy city of Islam?" >>> You see, 1. Islam never claimed Mecca as a city which has existed since the time of Adam and Eve. In their days there was only one house on the earth in Mecca, not a city. 2. His "have no water" turns to be the truth of Islam. No water was there before the Zamzam started gushing. 3. Jay's words "nor vegetation, no people" actually prove Islam's record of Mecca. It does fairly prove Islamic history of Mecca, as Hadith claims the same truths. To have the Kaaba, Meccan soil needed no vegetation, nor people. It was established on a barren and desolate place, people from outside pilgrimaged to it. Mecca city grew surrounding the Zamzam and the Kaaba which were not any outcome of a city. 7th-century Quran is proved by radiocarbon dating test, and Mecca is mentioned by name in the Quran:48:24 So, Mecca is older than 7th century.

[@bobfisher1909]

@@truthsayer4460 , So you believe a 9th century fairy tale? How come Islam destroys their own doctrine, Uthman did he exist or was that a fabrication to cover the huge gap of nothing? I suppose we never know as we can not find the original text of Uthman after burning everything he gathered in 652, then you have the 20th century dilemma with the school in Cairo in 1924 when they had to throw all the different Quran's into the Nile and choose 1 author as everyone had different readings and giving different answers so they had to choose which text every child will use. If this ZamZam well the one Muhammad said water is pure even though there was dead dogs, menses rags, garbage thrown in and water stinky? There was no ZamZam well till they dug down to find water, forget about getting your info from a 9th century book go back to the 7th century and see what was going on at that time on the grounds from documentation from that time, 200-500 years is to late to be trust worthy. If Mecca was that old then why is there no artifacts left behind to be found? Jerusalem fits the bill then Petra then Mecca where it remains today. I say they chose this new region as it was baron and has no ties to any other religion so Islam can claim it their own.. Both places were destroyed so they had to relocate further south...

[@dqschannel]

Jay, always a pleasure to see your videos and the gold nuggets they provide to us who debate Islamic claims.

[@muezamueza2797]

A). Debunking Dan Gibson Bogus Petra History Here some other excellent 13 videos from Dectective O’wil, debunking all Dan Gibson bogus and mad history about Petra as the Original Mecca. 1/14 Introduction #kzbin.info/www/bejne/oH23k5KGq7-Les0 2/14 Argricultural Mecca #kzbin.info/www/bejne/jKuWm3useMlnrpI 3/14 Agricultural Mecca #kzbin.info/www/bejne/jKuWm3useMlnrg 4/14 Find the Prophet Tribe in Petra #kzbin.info/www/bejne/g4m5YXp4o9OnqpI 5/14 Dushara is not in Mecca #kzbin.info/www/bejne/j6HVf2Smn7uCeck 6/14 Mecca a Walled City #kzbin.info/www/bejne/eX27aaCqh7qngc0 7/14 Mohammad a Nabatean #kzbin.info/www/bejne/l4bNY6uAirCHfpo 8/14 Cultivated land Mecca #kzbin.info/www/bejne/p5fVcmCEpZamf6s 9/14 Muslim forgot Petra #kzbin.info/www/bejne/ZqOpoYurrZV_eJI 10/14 No boundary stone in Mecca #kzbin.info/www/bejne/rX7Ekoisd8qDoKs 12/14 There is No Rainwater-course in Mecca #kzbin.info/www/bejne/sIvYoGSHocZssJI 13/14 Hira cave doesn’t face Mecca #kzbin.info/www/bejne/mnnLZopsat2Cr6M 14/14 Dan Gibson Destroy Petra #kzbin.info/www/bejne/Y4Dck2iXfdp8jJI

[@MU-we8hz]

@@muezamueza2797 Dan Gibson already destroyed Islam. Jay and Mel are destroying islam with every breath they take. You guys have nothing, just a quran that is compiled in 1924.

[@canonjean-mignon4985]

@ M U How did Dan Gibson destroy Islam? As of today, there are more than 1 billion muslims worldwide, most of them don’t care about Mr. Gibson. He made some valid points, but forced it too much.

[@MU-we8hz]

@@canonjean-mignon4985 he destroyed one of the foundations of islam. It doesn't matter how many muslims there are, the amount says nothing about islam being true. Islam is big in countries with poor internet abilitys and in countries where people can't read or write.

[@dqschannel]

@@canonjean-mignon4985 destroy as in the narrative that Muslims give us. Having 1 billion or 2 billion doesn't mean what Muslims have been telling us is true.

[@Islamisthecultofsin]

This needs to be played on many television channels around the world.

[@abashedsanctimony154]

Hadith No: 106 From: Sahih Bukhari. Chapter 30, Virtues of Madina Narrated/Authority of Abu Said Al-Khudri Allah's Apostle told us a long narrative about Ad-Dajjal, and among the many things he mentioned, was his saying, "Ad-Dajjal will come and it will be forbidden for him to pass through the entrances of Medina. He will land in some of the salty barren areas (outside) Medina; on that day the best man or one of the best men will come up to him and say, 'I testify that you are the same Dajjal whose description was given to us by Allah's Apostle.' Ad-Dajjal will say to the people, 'If I kill this man and bring him back to life again, will you doubt my claim?' They will say, 'No.' Then Ad-Dajjal will kill that man and bring him back to life. That man will say, 'Now I know your reality better than before.' Ad-Dajjal will say, 'I want to kill him but I cannot.' " This is the most ridiculous prophecy in the qurannic literature. It is prophecied that a "miracle" will NOT happen. I am confused why moslems claim Islam as if it's an actual religion.

[@JacobAdewumi]

@@abashedsanctimony154 The Standard Islamic Narrative (SIN) has holes in it....And Dr. Jay is helping them fill those holes.. But when you take a deep dive.... then you will find the holes are getting bigger and bigger with every passing moment.... Jesus is LORD! page last updated 23 M

[@mnoorbhai]

@@irishheritage893 Oh would be nice and see the avalanche as more people research and convert like after 911

[@mnoorbhai]

@@irishheritage893 Hardened hearts will find it difficult to traverse the straight path, but believing in your Creator there is a chance before the doors of mercy close on you .

[@mnoorbhai]

@@irishheritage893 Your doubt is of no significance as the numbers went up by 79%after 911.

[@veronikaatthewell9116]

Looking at the huge construction in Mecca nowadays, the Saudis do not seem to be very much concerned about supposed graves of biblical prophets in that place...

[@canonjean-mignon4985]

They are wahhabis. Wahhabis are against the worship of graves.

[@canonjean-mignon4985]

@ AM Exactly. They know it’s bullshit and they are right about being against it. The problem is, they make a business out of this in both ways. The Saudis aren’t considered true muslims. They just happen to be influential.

[@vir4193]

Lmao

[@eriknielsen1849]

Like the other holy place they want to build a city on

[@canonjean-mignon4985]

@ Cigy They are muslims who reject the traditional schools.

[@sgt.grinch3299]

God bless you Dr. Jay and your team. I pray you are safe and healthy. Thanks for getting the truth of Islam brought to light.

[@truthseeker7951]

A lot of tasks translating these gems to Indonesian language... so many gems in your recent video Dr. Jay Jesus bless you abundantly

[@som9097]

Well done sir---- The light shining on this religion is of incalculable value for all of mankind.

[@johnalencheril7060]

The big lies narrated in Quran is unveiled by the scholarly work of a man called Dr.Jay and l appreciate his task .Thank you.May the Son of God , JESUS CHRIST bless you abundantly.

[@welcometmw]

I love history, specially when it reveals to us truth, The antithesis of the propaganda of religion.

[@akbarzib4117]

Don't forget that atheism is also a religion.

[@welcometmw]

@@akbarzib4117 Don't be stooopid.

[@welcometmw]

@Jon Doe It's clear; All religions are myths/stories/ fables/legions... Blind faith obfuscates the mind. Truth is a fact that has evidence & religion is a black hole into which falls all reason & logic.

[@welcometmw]

@Jon Doe I've not 'fallen', I've arisen, Unlike your fairy tales. If there were ANY evidence of a creator, Atheists wouldn't exist!

[@welcometmw]

@Jon Doe I'm not a mzlmz! U gotta be dumb if u didn't realise that.

[@gaslowringfa6951]

All I will say Mr Jay is that God bless you.

[@job341kg]

Бог не благословляет лжецов.

[@paladin5163]

Whoever made up the story of Mecca never thought beyond that time and never expected someone to check out the story in the future. They could not see beyond tomorrow or just didn't care as long as they got their way at that time.

[@truthseeker7951]

Maybe they were so sure Izlm was gonna take over the world 🙃

[@sirunikunushik7735]

@@truthseeker7951 Islam was never meant to be this famous after 7th century. Since Islam is all about sex, food and more sex. Well you have a good point to sell your cult.

[@proverbs2522]

That's why all truth seeking has always been met with death. They love their death penalty.

[@sidprice6214]

We should all just come to you for our history lessons and end as stupid as Jay in the process.

[@truthseeker7951]

@@sidprice6214 without lies, izlm dies. No mecca -> no muhammad -> no quran -> no izlm.

[@simonhengle8316]

Another excellent presentation 👍

[@simonhengle8316]

@Forgiving Fragrance referring to yourself?

[@simonhengle8316]

@Forgiving Fragrance If you follow Islam you follow lies You provide 7th Century historical evidence for a Mohammed of Islam in Arabia You provide 7th Century historical evidence for your Qurans You provide 7th Century archaeological evidence for a Mecca in Arabia. I'll help you, the first time Mecca is recorded on any map is 741, and that's in Mesopotamia! You provide 7th Century historical evidence for the so called Rightly Guided Caliphs I wish you the best of luck, you're going to need it, btw I don't want 8th, 9th or 10th Century nonsense

[@MrChemenger]

Mate forget Christianity provide the 7th century proof for your Islam. Can we please see it where is it. Whether Christianity has proof has no bearing on your 7th century material. So if you really do have it you shouldn't have a problem presenting it. Deflecting to Christianity and it's proofs is a sign I would say of bankruptcy on your part

[@simonhengle8316]

@@MrChemenger 😂

[@MrChemenger]

@Forgiving Fragrance Mate, thanks for your prompt and polite response. A chain of narration given by people who lived hundreds of miles away from the place where the events supposedly happened and centuries after the events? Is this the verifiable proof. This proof would not cut it with any seriouse historian. We have done that a long time ago with the bible mate it has stood the test and continues to.

[@hambam7533]

if i were a muslim i would be totaly devastated by this information and would be in panic mode and questing that what i believe is all or mostly made up and i have been duked but the good news is you still have a chance to believe in the truth and be saved through faith in Jesus, forget everything and find the truth you only have one chance at this life only one precious life and the decision you make in life about islam and Jesus will be your eternal decision once you die ,choose life through Jesus Christ, muhammad is in his grave Jesus tomb is empty and his body has never been found because he has risin, this from one who has spent time in the largest muslim majority in the world who owns a koran had muslim friends and roommates and took a course at a university on the history of islam i know alot about your faith and as jay often says come home, come home Amen and God bless to all

[@zergbong]

go to a hospital and ask if you can come back from the dead after three days and if you are not questioning your religion than you can understand why muslims don't care about rational arguments. The same way you don't care. It is religion.

[@Yuyup7334]

@@zergbong Of course it is wrong to go to hospitals to ask about the resurrection of Christ. One doesn't go to hospital to ask about the historicity of a claim of a religion but to evidence; and we have ample evidence that the resurrection of Christ happened in time and space, in such a way that the historicity of the resurrection is undebunkable. The case is radically different comparatively in regards to the historicity of the city of Mecca. Where is the evidence that the city ever existed before 8'th century AD?

[@hambam7533]

@@zergbong i have no idea what the sand hill you are talking about you seem to be babbling about something but even with my three college degrees i cant figure it out go take some writing classes you need it

[@michaels4255]

Isa is the answer!

[@theoldone3835]

@@michaels4255 Who's Isa? We know no Isa.

[@sheikhboyardee556]

It's understandable that Olive trees would exist in Israel as the Romans conquered the area & would have brought any favorite fruit trees or vegetables that didn't exist in the area. However, in Arabia? Not likely.

[@michaels4255]

"Arabia Nabataea"

[@suburbanbanshee]

Olives were in Israel from ancient OT times. "Your children like olive trees, gathered around your table." They were valuable.

[@premalanavaratnam6589]

@@suburbanbanshee jjjj

[@keksione7235]

Yeah there is no way people would travel or trade in Arabia or any other place...its impossible.

[@sidprice6214]

There isn't one verse in the Quran which mentions olive trees in Mecca. I don't understand how people can say that there is.

[@doctorisout]

Jay raises some interesting questions. People started asking hard questions to Christianity 2000 years ago. It seems the unlettered early arabs created some problems for themselves?

[@Antw24]

God bless you keep up the amazing work ...from a Lebanese Christian 🙏🏻

[@nayak5550]

Namaste sir....truth u r exposing.....really an eye opener..

[@mohammadsirajullah3498]

Excellent presentation.

[@King_David794]

Doctor Jay is on another academic level. Well done sir God bless you

[@naeemqureshi5819]

Jay is on a level which is called non sensical level by bad mouthing Islam he can never prove Christianity to be right he cannot just pick up his Bible and open it up and show it to a educated person what he believes in,what Jay believes in is not in his Bible.

[@naeemqureshi5819]

Jay is a false Prophet Jesus Crist warned his people about,he cannot debate with a learned Muslim because he has only one thing to say and he repeats Jesus is God that's all cant read the Bible in Hebrew cant quote anything from the Bible with reference without looking at it it is evident from the debates he has had with Muslims they out smart him when it comes to the scriptures when it comes to the languages of the scriptures all Jay has is Paul Paul and Paul and we Muslims dont know we dont want to know any Paul our Prophet is Jesus Christ and by the grace of God almighty we know him and we dont attribute any corruption to him like the Christians do.

[@betsanikbetsy2139]

@@naeemqureshi5819 dr Jay is not bad mouthing Islam but he is showing the facts of history. Yes, the truth hurts and the narrative that was “ handed” to you for all these years, you all took hook, line & sinker. If you did your research you wouldn’t be angry & admit the falsehood of the so-called real religion.

[@magicwork8413]

This is an amazing resume for all your researchs so far .. it shows a big part of the historical truth about wht really happened & where it happened ...Muslims needs to see this video hoping that they will wake up ..it would be great if someone volunteer to translate this content to arabic I want also to mention the city called jericho in addition to petra & Jerusalem It could be the real place where all this events took action I hope you can see comment & take a look at the history of this city Jericho = Ariha in arabic

[@ambroisebelhy3248]

What a fabulous video with so much details! Since I discovered your channel, I'm glued to it as your analytical and critical mind helps to grasp History in a simple and clear manner. Very enjoyable and informative. God Bless you for all your efforts and Love for God!

[@itz_ivy1533]

Thankyou so much Dr .Jay, it is very clear for me now, about Mecca , Qur an and Muslims, ,very informatif. God Bless You, I 'll wait your next videos

[@ihearttubing]

Islam is collapsing under the shining light of truth and righteous ridicule. This process cannot be reversed or stopped. t can only survive in ignorance.

[@saleggadavids-dg6ly]

Did you see how many reverts is there around the world And this Mr Jay just talk nonsens

[@robertbuckey6517]

​@@saleggadavids-dg6lyhow is he wrong?

[@redleaf4902]

Jay, your voice and breathing sound better already. GOOD!

[@justlisa9220]

Bless you Jay, may the Lord Keep you & increase you Amen 🙏🏼❤️

[@octavianoanthony5123]

Jay Smith Should have a BIG Support, what he and his team done, was a GREAT Works! Come on guys let us Support his platform. God Bless you Jay and the team of Pfander Films

[@monajohnson3321]

Epic epic epic Speechless. Bless you jay and all persons working with you. Let the truth shine and let them whine !

[@sidprice6214]

Nothing to whine about - imbecility and epic rubbish stands out a mile.

[@davidyoung5830]

Some of the top Biblical Scholars/historians have acknowledged that the New Testament was complete before the destruction of Jerusalem and the Temple in 70AD due to textual criticism they have worked out that the Roman destruction of the temple is never mentioned by any of the writers and the Temple is talked about in the present tense, intact.

[@Yuyup7334]

Yes, even the latest Gospel to be written, the Gospel of John, was complete before 70 AD, as apostle John reffered to the pool of Bethesda in present tense. The Gospel then, should therefore be dated accordingly.

[@alexanderv7702]

Are you a Preterist?

[@michaels4255]

It all boils down to whether you accept that prophecy is possible. Skeptics assign a post 70 date to the synoptics for just this reason -- their personal lack of faith.

[@Yuyup7334]

@@michaels4255 So the post 70 AD dating of the Gospel, at least as it is proposed by the liberals, is subjective rather than evidence-based.

[@michaels4255]

@@Yuyup7334 It seems to be based very heavily on the assumption that knowledge of the future is impossible.

[@Dev_Gurjar_Singh]

Great research ❤️

[@twiter885tweet4]

Just great research, sir🙏🙏🙏

[@LMCI]

amazing material!

[@BK-hb1mk]

GOD bless you Jay!

[@jayjoseph3104]

JAY FOR YEARS I BELIEVED THIS AND YOU PROVED ME CORRECT. THANK YOU JAY 👍❤️👍

[@janiceridsdale2904]

EXCELLENT JAY - LIFE SAVER = LITERALLY ❤

[@hendrikbegian7473]

God bless you don't stop I enjoy your research

[@toddbeamer6131]

Excellent summary.

[@apostolstamatov5580]

Thank you Jay!

[@saraoostrum300]

Keep posting we learn a lot from you

[@dylanx9327]

...I like the slides... visual presentation makes your verbal speech succinct or less redundant and puts your thoughts into perspective...it gives the bottom line of what you meant to say...

[@bentajay2026]

Thankyou Jay this story is like telling people the hare is the king of the jungle"

[@Mcfads999]

Thank you. This is amazing. So is Hatun. I watched you both on KZbin at Speakers corner I'm into this because Jesus is Lord. And my son is a Muslim Praise God for historical evidence and scientific evidence to show people the truth and love .

[@Letdpoorbreathe]

Amazing. Thanks Jay. May the lord bless the work of your hands

[@temporaryaccount5307]

I have so many screenshots from ur PowerPoints, Jay!!!

[@TheStarmaxlight]

Wonderful lecture Dr Smith! Bravo! I like to see you in action, its always fascinating. Thank you very much, this was highly educational.

[@sidprice6214]

Admittedly quite entertaining but factually couldn't be further from the truth. It seems that it doesn't take much to educate people today.

[@charlesmuhmanson3928]

I keep asking for evidence of Mecca back to Abraham's days, but no one can provide it. I even ask for evidence of the clay stones that pelted the people of the elephant, but no one can provide them.

[@canonjean-mignon4985]

Maybe You should try looking for evidence on Moses, since he is not as old as Abraham. If it doesn’t work, You could go for David or Solomon. Maybe You get lucky to find evidence on Jesus and the apostles. But You could also search for evidence on Noah or Adam. Maybe Buddha and Zoroaster. Tell me when You found evidence on Horus and Zeus.

[@charlesmuhmanson3928]

@@canonjean-mignon4985 The likelihood of finding material evidence for ONE person is unlikely. I don't ask for that level of precision. But Mecca is supposed to have existed as a city back to the days of Abraham according to Muhammad and Islam. We should be able to see objects within layers that we can date back to that time. I can tell by your question you do not grasp the fundamentals of archaeology and the historical method. Perhaps some reading on your part would be beneficial. We actually find evidence of Jerusalem going back to the days of David and Solomon. We find evidence of Jerusalem that dates to the days of Jesus and the Apostles. That we can validate. What we can't find is evidence of Mecca that goes back anywhere near the time that Abraham is supposed to have founded Mecca. It seems Mecca does not match the standard Islamic narrative. If it doesn't, then we should consider the Quran and Islam a fabrication.

[@charlesmuhmanson3928]

@@canonjean-mignon4985 BTW, Horus and Zeus were fake gods. I would not expect to find them. Buddha and Zoroaster are presumably real men, but I am not interested in them at the moment. Their followers are not trying to subjugate the world with their ideology. If you are interested in find them, please pursue it. However, we know where Mecca is so there is not question where to look. We know the claims that Islam makes. Validating or invalidating Islam is a simple matter. Mecca doesn't fit the lies. What else is false about Muhammad and his fake religion? Dhul Qarnayn's wall? Missing. The clay stones? Missing. Dependable evidence to support Islam? Missing.

[@canonjean-mignon4985]

@ Charles MuhManson What You need to understand about book religions is that they are a mixture of metaphorical and literal writings. The core basis is fiction and it’s added with layers of historical references. The purpose is to bring together idiots and smart people alike. Mecca during the Umayyad caliphate was in the region of Mesopotamia, between Ur (Abraham’s birthplace) and Carra. The meaning is “low-place” like a basin or a riverbed. The question here is not an archeological one. The question here is, why did the Abassides transfer the holy city from the region of Baghdad to the Arabian desert? If You ask me, there is a reminiscent image in today’s world: Why does Washington DC look exactly like the Vatican State with Maryland and other obvious masonic places and names? There is Your flashlight, thank me later.

[@canonjean-mignon4985]

@ Charles MuhMason Dhul Qarnain’s wall is not missing. It’s on the southern shore of the Caspian Sea, close to the origin regions of both the umayyads and the abassides, in the northern part of ancient persia, where all the sahih Hadith authors came from.

[@oneblueorange]

Excellent research. I'm using this information in a twitter exchange.

[@talltimberswoodshop7552]

Thank you, Jay!

[@arwandajunior1122]

History never lies, good job Dr jay

[@authenticadvocate]

57:52 "Then Abdul al Malik ("Muhammad") comes to power, and in 691 AD the Dome of the Rock (the abomination of desolation) is erected in Jerusalem right on the holy place - the Temple Mount, where it ought NOT to be!" Amen. Even the beloved Christian brother Dr Jay Smith has recorded this perfectly! Amen. HalleluYAH! DANIEL 12; MATTHEW 24 etc. Peace/Shalom

[@ameenzakariya]

Prophet Muhammad PBUH died in 632 AD, long before Muslim Armies conquered Jerusalem.

[@ameenzakariya]

Do you not find words like "Paran" and "Bacca" in bible?

[@ameenzakariya]

Did Hager and Ashmael not lived in Paran according to Bible?

[@billjaycock3626]

Baca is the valley some pilgrims would pass through, to be refreshed on their way to Zion (Jerusalem), to worship YHWH in His tabernacle, according to Psalm 84

[@caroliner2029]

Absolutely brilliant! ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐ Thank you Dr Jay. I'm taking notes. The Lord God bless you.

[@rachellmang-osan9401]

Uh that epic hope that there will be more

[@jeffheslep4229]

JAY, THANKS FOR ALL THE CLARIFICATION ON THE TRUE ROOTS OF ISLAM. HOPEFULLY, MANY MUSLIMS WILL SEE THE FALSEHOODS OF ISLAM AND COME TO CHRIST JESUS. MAY YAHWEH BLESS YOU AND KEEP YOU AND YOUR FAMILY. HAVE A GREAT DAY, MY BROTHER IN CHRIST.

[@lancydsouza85]

Dr Jay is the best research scholar, missionary. Exposing the lies of the devil. In the past 30 or 40 years, after several debates conducted between Christians and Muslims, where lies were very assertive and people were made to feel and believe a lie. Thank God that He raised a person, Jay Smith exposed the lies.

[@zeinabhusseini936]

MR. JAY SMITH I LOVE YOU SO MUCH. YOU WHERE ONE OF THE MEN THAT HELPED ME LEAVE ISLAM .THE HOLY SPIRIT SHOWED YOU TO ME WHEN I HAD SO MANY QUESTIONS. YOU ARE MY FAVORITE APOLOGETIC

[@jeneb52]

Great information Jay, instead of the SIN meaning standard Islamic narrative, it should be SIN- standard Islamic naught!

[@aaabrams1889]

Here is a Xtian woman exposing these liars : kzbin.info/www/bejne/bHmWoXZrZt17mLs

[@paulkearsley9509]

In Britain, we may not have guns, but we have free speech. So what you prefer having a gun or free speech? Remember the pen is mighther than the sword. I do enjoy your programs very much. I always thought Islam is a false religion, and now you have given me all the ammunition and the tools that I need to debunk Islam. Thank you

[@nixonndombe7368]

Ignorance will kill you spiritually

[@markheitz7963]

Jay can u please answer a Question when I talk to Muslims I'm constantly being told Jesus talked of a prophet & actually names Mohammad by name is there any truth to this claim

[@bmwall2222]

Jay Numbers 6:24-27 a blessing to you

[@mohamedarshad6207]

Great stuff and the proofs that are so important. God bless you

[@sidprice6214]

What proofs? He couldn't a single verse from the Quran correct. Did you even bother to check?

[@AD-en5dq]

This is all such concise and beautiful information it must be from God

[@sidprice6214]

Nothing concise and nothing beautiful. Just a lot of deliberate "mistakes" dressed up as truth.

[@paahgrantgrant8392]

Good job 👏 👍 👌 sir

[@pv5149]

Mindboggling.. Awesome...

[@sadamanushyan1228]

*Love from Kerala🌺🌺🌺🌺🌺*

[@Friedrichsen]

Bravo!

[@rudolfdiezel1614]

Awesome revelation 👍

[@maze208]

Gbu Jay.

[@didierfavre2356]

One idea you gave me. Odon's thesis holds the idea that Christ did not come back as it was planned. From that moment on, the believers had to find some replacement for their faith. A man, a book and a place would be more than welcome in such a situation.

[@rebajeanforever3700]

Wishful thinking!

[@_John_P]

Most likely they killed their false prophet and converted to other religions in Jerusalem.

[@didierfavre2356]

@@_John_P They killed Ali and had his body and his widow going for months in the empire to show as many people as possible that the new messiah was dead. They could not stay in the old faith since one of its pillars had been proven wrong. The most practical answer was a legendary prophet receiving a book from Allah in a place far far away from anything.

[@_John_P]

@@didierfavre2356 The killing of the false Messiah (644) happened more than 100 years before Muhammad is introduced in written material, if you believe the dates of the biographers. If not, then Muhammad is introduced no earlier than the middle of the 10th century and the forgeries are redacted back to the 8th and 9th centuries. The people that followed Muhammad and witnessed his fiasco and demise were left with no religion after his death, so most joined the many religions that existed in the region in the time. Islam only came to be after the Quran was put together at some point in the middle to the end of the 8th century. Then they found a remote place to start a fake city, so there would be no one that would know the story to be false, and then started a tradition there, complemented with hadiths and the biography in order to create a history for the town.

[@didierfavre2356]

@@_John_P I think I was wrong on this one.

[@xorteqirdim426]

Thank you Dr.Smith, you've summed up fantastically... I can see the letter of the (i)slam bunnings as a candle, slowly but surely... and rest of the (i)SLAM going to be SLAM-DUNK...🏀 cheers 🥂🍾

[@atserehenry2813]

Interesting material.

[@emmanuelhabibmayga7476]

God bless you jay

[@robertkoons1154]

Why would water trade routes even go through Petra or Gaza. Egypt was the larger trade area. Alexandria was the major west Mediterranean port. Large water trade from Alexandria to Rome and Condtantinople also all of western Mediterranean.

[@michaels4255]

Perhaps there is a better port on the east side of the Sinai than on the west side?

[@robertkoons1154]

@@michaels4255 there is some historical evidence of a Nile to red sea canals from the time of the pharaohs, ptolomaic Egypt, Roman Egypt, and early caliphate egypt.Egypt. Even after fall of Rome Alexandria was the largest port in the Mediterranean, shipping to Constantinople, t by e Italian mainland, marsalles, Tunis, Mauritania, Sardinia, corsica and Sicily . Roman trade with India had gone up the west side of the red sea. Chinese trade with Constantinople went through the black sea avoiding Persia where possible and avoiding Anatolian Turks.

[@michaels4255]

@@robertkoons1154 I remember that canal, but I don't know for how long it remained operative, or what size vessels it could accommodate. However that figured into trading patterns in the 7th century, there does not seem to be any disagreement among historians that Petra was located at the intersection of a few different overland trade routes for a number of centuries.

[@dollahmusa6705]

After mohd's death the meccans (waraquah) changed the name isaac in Syras 2 :125 & 127 for the name Ishmael and invented the story about Abraham taking Ishmael to their black rock in mecca,, so that pilgrims would continue to visit mecca.

[@canonjean-mignon4985]

That’s a smart move considering it was Josephus who made up the story of Ishmael 600 years earlier.

[@Dev_Gurjar_Singh]

Please post video with english subtitles because pronounciation by europians not clear in Asia.soplz I AM from india

[@tarnos4153]

In relation to the narrative about Adam and Eve, just wondering if anyone knows the origin of the first couple’s repentance in Quran verses?

[@joek8948]

I m totally impressed with the presentation, i cannot imagine the amount of time & effort put into this. Unfortunately most m0slems will simply say this is fabricated & Jay is a liar, only a few smarter ones with try to verify Jay's findings.

[@naeemqureshi5819]

it is a fabrication the whole Bible is a fabrication with 10.000 errors it has to be a fabrication anything from God will not and cannot have any errors i as a lay man can show you a dozen someone who has spent some time on this subject can show you hundreds.the way Jay Smith argues showing no respect at all shows he is only trying to score points and not to prove the Bible to be the word of God maybe it started out as a word of God but after going through changes in every age the Kings wrote there own Bibles the priests wrote there own Bibles who know what the real Bible was besides what if the Christians do find the original Bible in a Cave somewhere in Jerusalem and it says the Christians cannot drink Alcohol the Christians cannot Gamble then what are the Christians going to stop doing these Evils?by the way the New testament does say Alcohol is Forbidden.

[@truthseeker7951]

In Qs 22:27 it is said that Abraham build the Kabaa in Mecca in around 2000 BC, and PRONOUNCED IT TO ALL MANKIND TO PERFORM HAJJ (more detail in Tafsir Ibn Kathir). If this claim were true, why no mention about any "Islamic prophet" like Islamic Moses, islamic David, king Sulaiman, etc, went to Mecca for Hajj? Why Moses brought his people to Canaan not to the "house of allah" in Mecca? Why nobody perform tawaf in Kabaa except for the pagans during pre-islamic era? Doesn't this mean the Meccan pagans are the only one fulfilling Abraham's calling? Doesn't this mean the Meccan pagans are the obedient muslims??

[@truthseeker7951]

Just learn this recently from Apostate Prophet's video

[@canonjean-mignon4985]

@ truthseeker 79 I did follow that discussion with AP, too. I think it was stupid on both sides. I think Mecca was transferred from the region of Ur to Arabia as a gift for fighting against both empires. AP also didn’t mention those 26 kabaas, Abdulmalik destroyed earlier. Arabs didn’t have an independent history, as they were divided across 3 different vassal states. On the one hand, Abraham was very close to the original Mecca before moving to Egypt, on the other hand, everything superhuman in all of these book religions can be falsified rationally.

[@sidprice6214]

Your implication that people were living in Mecca from the very beginning is just incorrect. There is no mention that: 1. Adam and Eve lived there 2. Abraham lived there and smashed idols at the Kaaba. The Qibla change according to you came about 14 years into his ministry so i'm not sure how this features in your implication. In fact in 624 the Prophet was in Medina not Mecca. The first "santuary" - The word used is "Bait" which means "HOUSE" of worship - mosque, synagogue, church whatever you wish to call it. Abraham had two sons - Ishmael and Isaac. The first ie Ishmael inherited the "House" in Mecca and the second ie Isaac inherited the "House" in Jerusalem hence the words "The FIRST SANCTUARY/HOUSE OF WORSHIP".

[@Basaljet]

Jay what is this fellow mueza babbling on about below with reference to a 3rd century “Samaritan text” that mentions Mecca?

[@P-B-G_YT]

56:05 The Dome and 'Temple Mount' are not where the original Temple Mount was located, according to biblical references. It was in the City of David, near the running water of the Gihon well. kzbin.info/www/bejne/bKXdoKBsa72bkJo "The Temple Mount is not where The world thinks it is"

[@supernautacus]

Paul Getson...Exactly Right! How ELSE would the Bronze sea be filled and refilled?

[@beachball391]

Greetings from Kenton Jay. Am i right in thinking that the supposed complete Qurans' of Abu Baka 630s and Uthman in 652 had to have been written down in the exact same script as they exist in heaven? Word for word, dot for dot etc. Am I also right in thinking this was in reality an impossible task because that fully formed Arabic did not yet exist. Hence no originals or copies of the originals exist because they could never existed in the first place.

[@pfanderfilms]

Yes, that's the jist... Do you really live in Kenton, where we lived for 20 years?

[@beachball391]

@@pfanderfilms Yes 'the' Kenton. Just back from walking Molly my lab in Kenton Rec. We have met on several occasions. I'm excited to see how the uncovering of the illusion of Islam is gathering pace. I feel like its the unleashing of a pent up flood which has been behind a dam of mystery/deceit for 1400 years. So many have been held captive by its lies and so many have suffered through its aggression. The original architects did a masterly job in deluding millions into performing heinous acts upon 'unbelievers' and indeed among themselves. They didn't however reckon with what long distant future generations would be able to expose through methods and techniques they knew nothing of. The chickens are coming home to roost. Blessings in Christ to you, your family and the work. Tony.

[@sidprice6214]

There are no "Abu Bakr Qurans" or "Uthman Qurans". There wasn't even a "Muhammad Quran". There was however just a Quran revealed by God. None of these three people were ever capable of writing the Quran hence you cannot attach their names to it unlike eg the King James' Bible. It doesn't matter what the Muslims or Arabs say you still won't accept mostly because you don't have the knowledge what is being said or just plain stubborness. Having said that i will still make an effort to educate you. Dots you speak of is most likely the Consonant markings on the letters. For instance the "dot" on the letter "i". In Arabic dots are also found on letters which changes the consonant letter to a different one. Take the second third and fourth letters of the Arabic Alphabet - BAA, TAA. and THAA - one dot below the bowl (BAA), two dots above the bowl (TAA) and three dots above the bowl (THAA). When an Arab writes a word he doesn't need to put the dots in because just by looking at the surrounding letters in the word he can work out if its a baa taa or thaa. When the Quran was first written many times the dots were not included - not because Arabic wasn't fully formed yet as you suggest - but rather because it wasn't needed by the Arab readers. However as Islam spread non Arabs could and still cannot read Arabic without the consonant (and vowel) markings. If the Arabic language was not fully formed as you suggest the the Quran would not have been revealed by God - Commonsense should tell you that. The same applies to vowel markings. To increase your knowledge i will also point out that the Original Israelite scriptures were written in Hebrew. These original writings also did not contain the consonant and vowel markings - does this mean that Hebrew was not fully formed, also does this mean it was impossible to complete the Torah and an original could never exist? This would mean that the Bible is also incomplete. You last comment is quite disconcerting but i'll make an effort to correct you. If you look at the street signs in modern day arab countries or read their newspapers and books you will find plenty of words without consonant and vowel markings. The two and half chapters/suras found in the Birmingham copy of the Quran which has been carbon dated to practically the time of the Prophet (PBUH) and is practically word for word what we have today. But lets take a contrast with the New Testament today. The earliest fragment of the NT is credit card sized and is dated 150 to 200 AD. The earliest date a complete or near complete NT is found is the 9th or 10th centuries AD (according to bart Erhman) ie 900 to 1000 years after Jesus. In addition of the 5500 Greek manuscripts (not in Aramaic or Hebrew) we have no two alike and the estimated errors are approx 400 000. Despite Jesus only speaking aramaic not one manuscripts exists in this language.How can the NT be complete if that is the case or worse still how can it claim to be an original copy of Jesus' words?

[@beachball391]

@@sidprice6214 It is likely the Birmingham folio fragment was produced before the Quran was 'revealed' to Mohammed. Problem? Only the work of the Holy Spirit can open your eyes to the sovereignty of the Lord Jesus and turn you away from the darkness of Islam.

[@sidprice6214]

@@beachball391 Please mate don't insult my intelligence. You talk rubbish about Islam and when your ignorance is pointed out you haven't even got the decency to respond properly.

[@Jorge-cf6xk]

Jay, instead of standing on a box at Speaker's Corner, why not have a large poster board with the time lines?

[@mantrik007]

To make the point more visually vivid, Jay could have used the common timeline and placed the history of the two traditions on the same page. Or, atleast used the same scale to show the gap visually.

[@oki5072]

Jesus Christ bless Dr. Smith and The Pfanders Ministries. Love from Indonesian Christian...

[@sagarjackie7366]

Everybody and their uncles were buried in Mecca 😂😂😂😂😂😂

[@altaykalpak6667]

Important note: Abdulmalik coined his picture on one side and the shahada on the other side probably to mean that he was the prophet or at least the very holy caliphate, who rejected the idea of trinity and who was after creating a new religion.

[@zabedahkmohd3998]

Jeddah From the 7th century AD it was established as a major port for Indian Ocean trade routes, channelling goods to Mecca. It was also the gateway for Muslim pilgrims to Mecca who arrived by sea.

[@TheUnique69able]

That was in the mid 8th century not 7th century

[@fantasia55]

There's no contradiction between the Petra and Jerusalem theses, because the direction of prayer toward Petra is not necessarily the forbidden place in Jerusalem. Islam combined elements from various religions.

[@sidprice6214]

What elements did Islam combine from what various religions?

[@christopherloh936]

Dr. Jay Smith you can rest your case with your superb arguements & irrefutable conclusions about the history of this religion.

[@MrGapsyify]

Have jay smith gone to mecca already and if he saw if there are really no mountains near mecca? For your info mecca is surrounded by mountains, trees and date fruits.

[@youtubeaccount5153]

Question, At 45:00 you said Ibn Zubayr took the black stone to Mecca. At 46:00 you said there’s no evidence of Mecca until 741. What amI missing here?

[@OdonLafontaine]

Nicely done ! A thorough overview of what's wrong with Mecca But I think, Jay, you still haven't brought the big guns, the final nail in the coffin: the quranic text. When you really think about it, what are the Standard Islamic Narrative claims to Mecca? - It is supposed to be the original islamic place of Abraham, whereas we now know that the Quran points at Jerusalem as the original place of Abraham. - It supposed to be the original place of the "Temple" (the _bayt_ , the Kaaba), whereas we now know that the Arabic phrases _bayt_ and _kaaba_ point at Jerusalem's temple. - It is supposed to be the place of an ancient preislamic pilgrimage (the _hajj_ ), whereas we now know that the quranic _hajj_ is actually the direct transliteration from Hebrew of the Hebrew phrase _hagg_ , which is a circumambulation around Jerusalem's Temple during the Sukkot pilgrimage. Hence the _hajj_ was actually a Jewish pilgrimage to Jerusalem. - It is supposed to be the place from which the first muslim "believers" were expelled by the "polytheists" and the place they conquered thereafter without violence, and where they established the true religion (islam). Whereas we now know that those first "believers" were actually expelled from Jerusalem in 614, and were prevented thereafter to reenter it by the Christians ("polytheists") who ruled the city up until the Arabs took it without violence from the Christians in 638 and established their religion there. So, every claim the SIN has to Mecca falls apart. *There was no Mecca because everything related to Mecca in the Quran actually regards Jerusalem.*

[@pfanderfilms]

Well done Odon, and as usual spot on! Now if only you could say it as succinctly in the videos.

[@OdonLafontaine]

@@pfanderfilms well, I did not talk much about Mecca in the videos. Paul did, and he did very good. What could be done now is going to the conclusion of the Jerusalem-Mecca thesis: what does it mean in a historical perspective that the Quran actually points at Jerusalem? What was really happening at the time of the quranic sermons? What do we make then of Gibson's discoveries about the late qiblas? Still a lot to discuss!

[@mohammadsirajullah3498]

Abraham is not a historical figure. It came from myths. Even if it is true that Abaham lived in Mecca, that Mecca is not the current Abbaside Mecca in Saudi Arabia. Abahams proposed tomb is in jerusalem and it is very unlikely that he evewr lived in even in the Mecca of Joirdan. It is a claim by Muslims wiithout any legitimacy.. Muslims als claim all the previous biblical prophets were burried in Mecca which is completely ridiculous..

[@damiengirvan5020]

This is a great series.... It's nice to hear in an academic way why and how this whole thing doesn't make sense.... I mean.... I already knew that it was all made up and stolen from the Jewish and Christians.... I had already read parts of the Qur'an.... And I have heard people talk about Arabic history.... And pre Islamic history.... A part of me wonders why more Arabs don't look for the truth.... But I understand that they are encouraged not to.... I have to say.... I am not really a Christian.... Although I am Catholic.... I don't really know what I believe in as far as religion goes..... But I do respect religious people.... And I like to listen to religious people talk about things.... And I am a Zionist I think.... Because I think the Jews deserve a homeland and deserve to exist.... The Jews seem like the best people..... They are humble..... They don't try and convert people..... The Christians are a bit passive aggressive.... They will try and pray over you and say things in the prayer that are kina rude.... And the Muslims are rude arrogant proud and hypocritical.... They don't make any sense.... They base there arguments on Jewish and Christian scripture..... That they don't believe in btw..... But they think that it's wrong..... And that they somehow have the true inside scoop..... But can't explain ware it came from.... So they want to talk about Jewish and Christian scripture..... But if anyone else talks about Muslims scripture..... They can't because they wouldn't understand it...... It's like listening to a lier and a bully that have been caught out..... I have never heard a single one make even a coherent argument.....

[@universalflamethrower6342]

Can't listen to this now because I sm in a Silent (catholic) recreat. Looking forward to hear the tututuus in a weeks time.

[@TheGnewb]

Mohamed was the first incarnation of Walt Disney, praise be upon the ears.

[@hezroneli9607]

Hello Dr Jay Smith, I would like to thank you for all the great works u being doing in spreading the Gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ our Saviour and may the LORD bless you and the great people who are doing the same job of exposing the falsehood of Islam. Please I notice u being inviting so many great scholars to your show but there is one scholar I would like you to invite... His name is ' CHRISTIAN PRINCE. an Arab expert in Islamic theology, he is a brother in CHRIST. thank you

[@pfanderfilms]

Thanks Hezron, I would love to invite him onto my show, as I love what he is doing, but no one seems to know who he is, or how to get in touch with him. Can you help me?

[@sirunikunushik7735]

@@pfanderfilms Hatun Tash invited Christian Prince in her show. Ask her how to get in touch with him. No Islamic Arabic speaker scholar dare to debate with him, because they know they can't play taghiya games with him. People asked Shabir Ali 'why you don't debate with Christian Prince? he said 'I invited him but he never responded back. Christian Prince says 'he is lying, he never invited me to debate with him'.

[@trinityispaganism989]

Hindus: We have 3 Million Gods, but they are ONE Xristian: Worship only one GOD. Not 3 Million gods Hindus: Ok, What is Trinity ? Xristian: Father, Son, Holy Spirit.Not 3 but One Hindus: Hahah ..See we are same ..your 3 in 1 , ours 3 Mil in One

[@sidprice6214]

If you think Jay is exposing "the falsehood of Islam" then you have been led up the garden path. Just so that i can satisfy my curiosity can you please point out 1 falsehood of Islam that Jay has pointed out.

[@moredore5876]

Wow, the black stone fact are mind blowing, destroying islam

[@carolgebert7833]

I used a sky map and set the date to winter solstice, 700 and the location to Petra. I am not completely sure but the vector from Petra to Mecca (165deg of arc) seems to be aimed at the star-rise of Alpha Centauri. Maybe a coincidence?

[@spysong1324]

What i would want to know is - when are all those sources and facts compiled and peer reviewed by actual historians in for example the universities. When this will be common knowledge and accepted?

[@truthseeker7951]

When Izlm stops calling us Islamophobe. But, is it possible? 🙃