Why Overtraining is a MYTH (for most lifters)

The REAL Doctor is in and your diagnosis is "do you even lift?". You're not overtrained, you just need a couple of days off, relax and then get back in the gym ASAP.
Angry description aside, on this video Big Pharma gets yet another slap from Dr. Pak, this time saving the honest tax-payer millions in emergency visits for Overtraining Syndrom diagnoses. God Bless the PhDs.
Citations:
Overreaching and overtraining in strength sports and resistance training: A scoping review
pubmed.ncbi.nl...
"Is It Overtraining or Just Work Ethic?": Coaches' Perceptions of Overtraining in High-Performance Strength Sports
pubmed.ncbi.nl...
Overtraining in Resistance Exercise: An Exploratory Systematic Review and Methodological Appraisal of the Literature
pubmed.ncbi.nl...
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Free Minimum Effective Training Dose Strength and Hypertrophy templates at:
www.minimumdos...
or on the Boostcamp app:
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Edited, colored by Orestis Ioannidis
Ig: / orestis_ioannidis
Filmed in the Wolf's lair
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My podcast 'Muscle and Feels' with co-host Dr. Milo Wolf (@WolfCoaching) @MuscleAndFeels
Follow me on:
IG: / dr__pak
ResearchGate: www.researchga...
Business enquiries (consultations, coaching etc): drpak.com
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About the channel:
I am Pak, a scientist, a coach but most importantly, a lifter.
I did my PhD on "the minimum effective dose for strength" and currently, as part of the Applied Muscle Development Lab (NYC), my research focuses on strength and muscle growth. As a coach I work with individuals of all professional and sporting backgrounds, from elite strength athletes to busy professionals looking to get stronger and improve their body composition.
As a lifter, there's not much more to say than "I lift and enjoy training hard". Citations for the "I lift" part can be provided upon request.
This channel is essentially me rambling on about all things lifting, including the odd "hot take" here and there with the aim of helping other fellow lifters as well as inspiring non-lifters to lift.
Viewer discretion is advised.
Real doctor* no gimmicks.

[@warrenhenning8064]

Yesterday I got to explain to my mom that the danger of knees over toes is a myth and that I squat with plenty of knees over toes twice a week with zero issues. Fitness myths are real.

[@Kyriakoskarystinos]

For untrained/people with problematic knees I wouldn't advise anyone going knee over toes before building some muscle over that area . Just me though.

[@gerym341]

It might depend on an individual.

[@Anandfulness]

"plenty of knees over toes"? How? I only have two.

[@alexwright5954]

And how did she respond that advice?

[@RS-pn9wu]

@@Kyriakoskarystinos its fine, but knees over toes isnt the only variable, depth of squat is also important. A partial squat with knees over toes may be better for rehab than a full rom squat without knees over toes.

[@Radinovic97]

HIT bros gonna have a field day with this one 😂

[@youokaybuddyfitness]

Incoming testimonials from HIT jedis about how 1 set per year saved their lives

[@perfectstranger1152]

​@@youokaybuddyfitness "HIT Jedis" Grandmaster Mentzer is displeased with your lack of knowledge.

[@peterspaulding4716]

How could they have a field day if they can't even make it to the field because they once heard someone say "high volume", which on its own was enough to make them hit failure 7 times in their first rep, and now they're so overtrained that ideas of even seeing a field again seem like a mad dream from childhood before Big Volume came and claimed yet another innocent, wussed-out victim?

[@gerym341]

I realised that since I started watching Doctor Pak's videos my life is getting more and more simplified. Also my training

[@Mathachew]

Big shoutout to the fluff from a previous video 🤣

[@user-ii7xc1ry3x]

It's time to raise your pitchforks brothers: bring the fluff back!

[@millie35998]

Bring back the fluff!!

[@MrAmadeus1998]

Budget cuts budget cuts. No one can afford fluff anymore!

[@sfarsitulumi]

What'd u do to fluff bring him back

[@danielkanewske8473]

My heart and lungs are overtrained, so I stopped using them for a deload week. I feel much better now!

[@tylervanderbilt4876]

I believe I might have had OTS from September of last year until January of this year. Acute rises in blood pressure 190/110(at rest) at it's highest when normal it's 110/70 120/80. Resting pulse stayed in the high 80's for those months. Now back to normal in the low 60's. Very high fatigue and dizziness during this period. The worst part was the insomnia from my pulse pounding out of my head at night.. Cardiologist said I was fine and but he was not familiar with OTS. I was training with moderate volumes 10-14 set) on a upper lower split 2x per week at the time. I was also doing 2 Mauy thai sessions and 2 jiu-jitsu sessions just before this time period. Just before that time period I was still progressing in strength and ability in MMA. I didn't see the typical drop in performance in any area before hand. No idea what exactly happened to me but my life was a nightmare for those 4 months.

[@lednevnik]

Same but I also got sick more often with worse symptoms

[@jaymills1720]

Same. Mind blowing he condescendingly says it doesn’t exist for us not pros. An embarrassing joke of a video.

[@christian_florez]

So would you recommend auto-regulating deload weeks rather than planning them every 4/6/whatever weeks in a training block? Personally, I was unaware that "Overtraining Syndrome" was a specific thing, I was always under the assumption that when folks said "overtraining" it just meant "you've been going too hard and you're going to fuck up your joints/get insomnia/etc." Is there a specific term for this, maybe general systemic fatigue?

[@Dr__Pak]

Yeah, actual overtraining is a serious thing. I would say that if you're feeling very fatigued and performance in the gym is regressing consistently for 1-2 weeks, then it's probably wise to take it easy for a week

[@gerym341]

Thank you real doctor Pak! Another great video.

[@Dr__Pak]

Always welcome

[@Mr.BasixCSCS]

This is right in the nose with the current training focus. Also, I already send you money. 😂

[@Xplora213]

I wonder if they have researched a link between overtraining symptoms and depression because they look exactly the same. Depression will actively make you feel like everything sucks, especially if you just need a deload and you went past that point and suddenly feel like the world is dying.

[@DarkoFitCoach]

I overtrained 100%. No doubt about it. My dumbass trained hard 6x a week plus diet plus fulltime work and i never took a deload for 21yrs. Yeah. I am the 1% that actually overtrained to the freakin max! Adrenals totally messed up. Dhea down the gutter. I couldnt walk up stairs for 8 months. Zero gym for 12 months. Ya. Overtrained But for sure i am the rare exception that was able to push myself where 99% of people would never be able to go. Pain usually stops people. Except the 1% of people who have the capability to overcome their own pain and push to greatness and then abyss

[@Manakaiser]

Big g *edit* I fckin love this channel. Please keep em coming.

[@shawnfallahi5616]

Don't tell Jay Vincent!!

[@hamesos7343]

No Gimmicks!

[@Vasilifts]

Preach brother! Great content as always!

[@stevenbaeyens2652]

I've been over trained. The level of fatigue is even impossible to explain. It tends towards depression. I'm autistic and fight through fatigue with massive volume and intensity. Doing this daily with 3h sleep a day in working shifts destroyed my body at some point. To this day it still bothers me

[@DarkoFitCoach]

What kind of symptoms

[@excalibro8365]

Sleeping 3 hrs a day seems like your main issue was underrecovery, not overtraining.

[@alexanderchernoshtan9898]

no fluff Pak baby 😂

[@Sonic_1000]

Training 7 days a week, weights/calisthenics hybrid, yielded my best physique

[@matt_milack]

Would you say that doing strength and conditioning in the same workout session is an optimal thing to do? For example, 25 sets for strength and hypertrophy followed by 5 rounds of HIIT?

[@user-fr5tq7cx2t]

wise man one's said " there is no such thing as overtraining. Only under resting" Matt Wenning (might not be word for word correct but thats what I remeber)

[@brandonyoung4910]

I overtrain every month lol. Get to the point where I stop sleeping completely at times. Usually just end up not being able to fall asleep for a few hours in bed though.

[@andy0009]

I just cannot agree with most things that are mentioned here. Maybe it depends on what is the definition of overtraining. I know for a fact that if my frequency/volume/intensity is too high my reps go down a lot and I just stay there and don't make any progress or it's a lot slower then usual. And if that happens and I keep the same training variables I don't lose muscle but I eventually start getting insomnia and get aches and pains and need to take time off and once I am back in the gym I am back to square one. I even have lab results of high cortisol and low testosterone during such a period. Training too much that you get worse or no progressive overload is overtraining to me. I have read a book from Chris Beardsley (he is a scientist like yourself) and he goes on explaining that if you train too frequent that the muscle damage doesn't go away before the next training session for a certain muscle, then you nerves won't activate the muscle as well (central fatigue). This also means less mechanical tension. So this confirms my experience. It's just not effective, you risk injury, waste time, maybe raise cortisol, etc for what? Why not just recommend the truth instead? Train as much as you can tolerate and wait as much as needed until you recover, and repeat. This is a highly individual thing. Overtraining is not a myth!!! It's 2024, we can all agree that progressive overload for naturals is a MUST. There is no other way. If you are not stronger after a year you wasted your time. Period! I think all scientist/coaches can agree with this. You can do the fanciest training program you find on the internet, if you don't get stronger and you still bench 100 lbs and your recovery is on point, the problem is the volume/frequency/intensity combination. It just looks to me that this video was made to get views as it's just cool to say that overtraining is a myth. People like this, they don't like the boring truth.

[@Dr__Pak]

>You choose to ignore the literature cited showing that true overtraining syndrome occurs rarely, even in high level strength athletes >You also ignore the main message of the video that "overtraining is very unlikely to randomly occur" >Instead you cite your personal anecdote of feeling beat after overdoing it with training while making reference to some book >You also choose to define overtraining in your own way, which completely goes against the point of the video aka looking at actual overtraining >"This video was made to get views" - yes, the title and thumbnail are supposed to capture your attention, but it's the content of the video that should be judged, not just the hook Do you disagree with the notion that for the majority of individuals engaging in resistance training, ACTUAL overtraining is a very rare thing and will be very easy to see coming well in advance?

[@Dr__Pak]

And just to be clear, your anecdote pretty much confirms the "will be very easy to see coming well in advance" point. Yes, if you choose to define overtraining as "I was tired for a week and needed a deload", then fair enough, but that's like me using an alternative definition for what constitutes training to failure and arguing based on my own definition. "Overtraining syndrome (OTS) refers to long-term reductions in performance capacity observed over a period of several months", not feeling fatigued from consistently engaging in progressive resistance training (which as you said, is necessary to make gains).

[@andy0009]

@@Dr__Pak fatigue isn't necessary to make gains. It's an unwanted byproduct of training that needs to be minimized. Mechanical tension is now known to be the main stimulus for growth. I never said I felt fatigue for 1 week and took a deload. You are just twisting my words. I said if I keep at it injury occurs. I have felt fatigue for 1-2 months multiple times in those cases and got worse progressive overload. There are other scientists/coaches that recommend managing fatigue. Having a video stating that overtraining is a myth basically sends the message that fatigue is irrelevant. Train as much as you want. I disagree with that. Why not manage fatigue, prevent injury and make steady gains instead? Why do more, accumulate so much fatigue that sets become less productive and you end up wasting time? Why risk an injury and spend more time as a recreational lifter? I would argue that you can even stall your progress due to too much fatigue. I'm pretty sure the literature is clear on this as well. I know about functional overreaching. But if it's a constant thing that you don't recover from then you are overtraining. Literature is also very clear that individuals have different responses to different training volumes. Some respond to more volume some to less. Why choose to ignore this part of the literature? If some people respond better to lower volumes than others, aren't they overtraining if they are doing more?

[@Dr__Pak]

Still missing the point completely. The video is about ACTUAL overtraining not being common among lifters. Not about managing general fatigue or the fact that you will need to deload every few weeks or months depending on your circumstances. At no point does the video recommend pushing past the point where you are feeling fatigued and performance is regressing. Quite the opposite actually. The video literally states that if you see "mood, sleep, performance in the gym etc are f**ed then it may be time to take a week off training".

[@WhopperCheeseDota]

​@@andy0009to be fair Pak should have probably explained what overtraining syndrome is a little clearer. It's a medical diagnosis. What you are talking about is usually called "over reaching". If you "over reach" for months, then you might develop "over training syndrome". However most people will physically or mentally burn out before they reach a chronic over training syndrome state. Therefore it's not something anyone has to actually worry about. He's not saying fatigue management isn't important, he's saying the average person saying "yeah bro I'm overtraining I think haha" e.g you, isnt using the term correctly. It's kinda a semantic argument to be fair.

[@rafael_ellanios2708]

My 10 sets myo reps mach is like 16 sets so i do them 2 times at weeek so 32 sets per muscle group

[@thanosxypolytos4093]

Here since day one!

[@BaneTrogdor]

BUT DR. PAK!? IF i do HIT and do 3 sets per 10 days for my chest, i will melt away!

[@Jarl_egbert]

I'm the strongest training twice a week, yet everyone will tell me it's not optimal or whatever. Recovery is clearly important, and most naturals (with less than optimal genetics) do way too much, and would probably benefit from just focusing on a handful of compound movements. Just my 2 cents, do whatever works for you.

[@jaymills1720]

You start with a straw man - being hospitalized - and ignore the actual easily accessible of literature on NCBI. Many people combine resistance training with aerobic training and it’s easy to combine this with life stressors. And you keep saying only elite lifters?

[@Dr__Pak]

Please cite the literature showing that true overtraining syndrome frequently occurs in recreational lifters

[@jaymills1720]

@@Dr__Pak where are you seeing high volume claims that recreational lifters (who only lift) are being diagnosed or experiencing OTS at high rates? There’s 20 years of web forums of people who are lifting in addition to participating in aerobic work or other sports exhibiting symptoms that would be considered overtraining/REDS/burnout/under recovering etc. Perpetuating the mindset that it’s nearly impossible is just bad argument. OTS itself is a nebulous medical term with some convincing paradigms form sympathetic or parasympathetic overtraining - driven by a confluence of primarily volume and secondarily intensity. That doesn’t mean Mike Mentzer was right. It means you’re putting forth a claim without substantiating where this really specific and narrow claim is being made and didn’t review any literature at all in the video. Much more common in casual aerobic sports by non-pros but assuming it doesn’t happen amongst average gym goers who may also run/bike/swim/MMA along with energy deficit, life stressors etc is not a convincing stance. Edited out my ad hominem as it was unnecessary Edit: there is difficulty with diagnosing OTS. It’s of exclusion. Fatigue, mental health issues, gi distress, ANS/HPA symptoms will present themselves with unremarkable blood work for most. I’d agree that doing 4 days of 10-15 sets for a muscle is unlikely to tilt an individual into OTS but so many others lift 4-6x trying to optimize volume and also run etc and do experience many degrees of symptoms aforementioned. I’ve experienced it, athletes I coach have and while it’s more likely in aerobic sports, it’s not as uncommon as you portray in my experience

[@Max-op5ch]

Petition to bring the fluff back

[@christopherwhitley9923]

Rhabdomyolysis is real though, just wanna point out that cross fit made it a joke and people got fucked up pretty bad. Now would i wager most people don't train enough? Yeah, i was military and saw how much people CAN do in comparison to what people USUALLY do. Just don't think you have a infinite ability to just go as hard as you physically can because there is a limit, its just a lot farther away than you might think.

[@1ExplosionsHurt]

Awesome dude

[@Ezratal]

I keep hearing both sides I feel like from everybody. On the one had, there's talk about 'maximum recoverable volume,' or you're saying in this video 'take rest days,' or whatever, on the other 'overtraining isn't an issue.' Okay, if overtraining isn't an issue, then why are we talking about my ability to recover and needing to take rest days? Why have any conversation about 'recoverability' *at all*? If overtraining isn't an issue, isn't pretty much anything I could ever do perfectly recoverable?

[@Dr__Pak]

Just watch the video xD

[@Ezratal]

@@Dr__Pak I did. The closest I heard to an answer was 'if youre having bad workouts and stuff scale back a bit and you'll be fine.' That's not really an answer? Maybe I'm a big dumbo, but it doesn't make sense to me to say we should be concerned about recoverability, but not about overtraining. Are... workouts that exceed recoverability a real concern? What does it mean to be beyond recoverable volume? What happens if you exceed that amount? You, presumably, lose strength/muscle? Go backwards? IE you're overtraining? If not, then how is recoverability an issue anyone should think about at all? Especially given the recent research suggesting basically more volume = more hypertrophy period (like, 60 sets a week per muscle grows more than 50, 40, 30, 20, etc.)?

[@Dr__Pak]

That is the answer king. If your workouts exceed your ability to recover you will probably know waaayyyy before you experience overtraining. I should have probably put the definition of actual overtraining at the start of the video to avoid having to do this. That said, overtraining syndrome refers to long-term reductions in performance capacity observed over a period of several months (Bell et al., 2020) - check the description for the exact paper. The video simply explains that regular lifters should not fear accidentally overtraining as they will have clear signs of needing to slow down a good amount of time before overtraining occurs, unless they're that one crazy person who sleeps 2 hours a day, is constantly sore and somehow decides to keep pushing harder. As far as the volume example, the current literature shows a dose response relationship between volume and hypertrophy but as said above, if you try and overdo it with training volume, you will likely know in the next 1-2 weeks that whatever you did was too much. If I go to the gym this week and do a total of 20 sets of squats, given that my squat volume has been extremely low for the past 1-2 years, I will 1) Find it very hard to complete each workout 2) Be very sore for many days to come 3) Feel quite fatigued in general If I then do this for another 1-2 weeks and the above don't improve while I also start seeing that my sleep, gym performance etc are also affected, then guess what? I am probably doing more than I can recover from. In that case I can either A) Take it easy for a week to let fatigue dissipate and then start again with the same crazy, for me, volumes B) Reduce training volume massively and continue training C) Take it easy for a week and then start with a reduced training volume for my legs which I can then slowly build up D) Ignore the fact that I'm feeling like hell and continue to do the same for months until I actually ovetrain. Mind you, I will probably need to ingest a lot of caffeine everyday to function, sleep like shit, be OK with the fatigue negatively affecting day-to-day tasks and also be willing to accept performance massively regressing every workout. I will also be lucky if I don't get injured while pushing in a truly overtrained state. It's really not that deep bro. @@Ezratal

[@Ezratal]

@@Dr__Pak Thank you for this!

[@Baytowne0888]

There's "I'm over trained in the sense I can no longer have a productive, overloading workout" and "I've blown my systemic systems out the damn wall". I'm doing some vertical jump training at the moment. A single heavy squat workout for hypertrophy can and will leave me unable to jump hard enough for progression for 3-4 days. Just did it - squatted Monday, and on Thursday my vert was still 15% off peak. But that doesn't mean I was over trained - just still in the R part of the SRA curve.

[@MrAmadeus1998]

Myth: Dr Pak isn’t a sex icon.

[@jonblack4106]

The study you cite does say that 'non functional overreaching' is real. Which has the same symptoms as overtraining, and isn't that the same as overtraining for lay people? So might be misleading to say it's a myth?

[@Dr__Pak]

The message of the video is not "overtraining does not exist" but rather that it shouldn't be a big concern for the average lifter. Even in the case of functional overreaching, you will not reach a stage of muscle loss and sickness before you know that it's time to pull back. The idea here was to push against the narrative that if you happen to overdo it in the gym your body will magically enter an emergency state where you're getting sick and losing muscle. All of us have overdone it from time time and have overreached. The outcome? A few crappy sessions, additional fatigue and then the need to take it easy for a bit. Really not a big deal IMO.

[@jonblack4106]

@@Dr__Pak To then summarise your last three videos. Don't skip leg day actually. Specialising your program is actually a good idea. Overtraining does exist. 😉 I'm a massive fan of your content and humorous delivery style, just maybe not the motte-and-bailey click bait 😂

[@Dr__Pak]

Yeah perhaps it needs a click toning down

[@TheHybrid350]

great

[@riverdean7]

boxers can overtrain

[@HellBoy-id6ss]

Dr Pak is a myth..😢

[@Dr__Pak]

and a real doctor

[@TheYangoable]

[@googelig]

You got the knowledge and expertise and I respect you for that. Despite the fact that you started with KZbin just recently I think the video turned out well! I liked the editing a lot man. However there are two things I’d improve: - maybe edit in the most important arguments/findings in a written way into the video as kind of a summary at the end or even the beginning, it makes it easier for the listener - i had to turn off the video the first time I watched it because I was disgusted by the intro. You’re a young guy, some spirit and fire is nice and much needed, but calling yourself a “game changing member of society” and so on was just cringe and arrogant. I know you’re not here to please me as a single individual but in my eyes this behavior just undermines your credibility. You may impress some “Alpha Gym Bros” by doing that and if thats your target audience then go for it! However, being a bit humble goes a long way. Anyways, kind regards!

[@Dr__Pak]

I’m clearly being ironic/making fun of myself at the intro 😆 I also said I SAVED THOUSANDS OF LIVES and that PhDs are the real doctors

[@Dr__Pak]

Well, clearly not clearly 😆 but rest assured I’m just joking. Also thank you for the kind words and feedback

[@googelig]

@@Dr__PakOh man then the joke went above my head, sorry for the misunderstanding!

[@Dr__Pak]

No worries - my delivery was probably not the best. I often also refer to myself as a “bald fatso” and specifically warrant caution in listening to everything some random fatso says on KZbin 😄

[@Jhumanghjngg]

If I would want to overtrain to get sick the next day I could do that voluntary without any problem, I'd know exactly what to do. Happened 99x without that I wanted it. Sorry, but you have no idea what you are talking about.

[@Dr__Pak]

Congratulations! And If I want to get injured I know exactly what to do to get injured, therefore lifting weights is likely to cause injury! GUGUGAGA

[@Jhumanghjngg]

You totally missed the point.

[@Dr__Pak]

GIGUGI@@Jhumanghjngg