Why People Stay in Emotionally Abusive Relationships | Dr. David Hawkins

In this episode of Dr. Hawkins Reacts, Dr. Hawkins and Jonathan Glover respond to listeners who have emailed us with stories of their toxic and emotionally abusive relationships. This one is about a woman who reached the tipping point after years of emotional abuse from her partner, leading her to become abusive herself, and even have an affair. They went to counseling but it did not help them at all. She remains trapped in a cycle of abuse, love-bombing, guilt, manipulation and more abuse. She admits how unhealthy it all is, but for some reason unbeknownst to her, she just can’t seem to get herself to leave him. Find out what advice two therapists have for this woman.
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Dr. Hawkins and his team of experts offer education and professional training as well as treatment for narcissistic and emotional abuse.
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About
The internet is inundated with hyperbole and misinformation about narcissism, leaving many people confused and hopeless. Get the facts about narcissism and emotional abuse from someone who has been researching, writing about and treating narcissism and emotional abuse for over a decade.
Dr. Hawkins is a best-selling author and clinical psychologist with over three decades of experience helping people break unhealthy patterns and build healthier relationships. He is the founder and director of the Marriage Recovery Center and the Emotional Abuse Institute which offers education, training and counseling for people who want to break free of, and heal from, emotional abuse.
Whether the perpetrator of the abuse is your spouse, partner, parent, boss, friend or family member, we offer practical advice for anyone trapped in a toxic, destructive relationship. In addition to narcissism & emotional abuse, topics include covert, reactive, spiritual, secondary, relationship trauma and more.
#emotionalabuse

[@DahliaBrynn]

My ex would rant for hours upon hours. No apology was ever good enough until I said the right words. (I realized more recently that he was accusing me of things I hadn't done, and then making the fight about my lack of remorse). If I begged him to stop, he just went louder and longer. If I tried to walk away, he would order me back to him like I was a child, or he would physically block me from leaving his presence. I stayed for 24 years. A combination of God hates divorce, a lack of viable support, and his threats. I finally got out last year, and the freedom has been amazing.

[@MichaelAlbrecht-jx5cp]

I have had the same but I am a hero male.She criticised incessantly.It hurts so much but I don't think she will change.I miss her but I can not trust her.I feel very very sad right now. But I have no trust in her now.

[@KariMotley]

Correct! I often say narcissists aren’t all insecure, many of them truly do believe they are above everyone else and the way they see things is the only right way.

[@DrPhilGoode]

For the most ardent narcissists, truth is what they say it is. They know they’re not always right. But to acknowledge that would be tantamount to removing themselves from the perch they’re absolutely determined to occupy. Dethroning themselves is not something narcissists do willingly. They refuse to even recognize, let alone voluntarily subordinate themselves to any higher power.

[@TeaRose9]

Exactly!

[@sallybyrd3712]

Some persons go to counselling to get reassurance that their partner is at fault and they are the good person by showing the therapist only their good side and some therapists are deceived by it. Some abusers feel that all problems in the marriage are the partner's problem and will not consider that any problems in the relationship are their fault and refuse to go to counselling at all.

[@KariMotley]

My ex husband would lecture me for hours on end just like that. 3-5 hours at a time, wouldn’t even allow me to eat or use the bathroom until he was finished lecturing. This is so abusive and traumatizing.

[@godzillamanstreb524]

I experienced a version of this…..happy you got away….my husband died unexpectedly after healing much from his traumatic past

[@Schquirl]

24:40 😢😭 Truth. It's all about him and she doesn't count as a person. I was only about what I could give him or represent for him. 💔 They say narcissist don't just break the soul but break the spirit

[@natashaevsimon1441]

This is 100% correct.

[@Schquirl]

@@natashaevsimon1441 Sorry you experienced it to know the truth too. We will recover be wiser and stronger from it. 💞🕊️

[@christinejames5631]

Same for me, only his wants,needs,feelings,career, mattered I was only there to serve him

[@Schquirl]

@@christinejames5631 So sorry you also experienced being used. 😢 I am trying to work on myself now learning boundaries and being in support groups.

[@louisecampbell2628]

That was my Mother

[@carrie6157]

40 years …. Didn’t know about narcissists until finding drs talk about them on utube ! Thank you 🙏 I always thought a narcissist was someone who thought they were good looking omg it goes so beyond that! Haven’t left him at 78 where do I go ? But I’m learning to deal with him in a different way than I had been . He doesn’t like it !! lol I’ve started to heal and understand that it hasn’t been my fault . I also realized that everything he said to me was really portraying himself. I get it now!!! Thank you 🙏

[@EllieHabul-Morgan]

INSECURITY ISN’T AN EXCUSE

[@natashaevsimon1441]

I stayed because I was loyal to my vows to him and myself but this was wrong.

[@sandras2479]

Me too but I’m free now!

[@elipotter369]

My abusive ex thought i would never leave because of my vows and religious beliefs. I told him I would leave if he didn't behave better, he thought I was bluffing and upped the abuse enough it was seen and heard by our child & in front of other people at church. I don't bluff, I don't say things I don't mean, I'm truthful. I left, church all sided with him, so I was in my own with all closest "friends" and community gone, they knew I had no family to help me. Luckily, I'm a strong person and had a decent job & I owned our car and I paid out 50% of the house (even though did more child care). He remained vindictive towards me, even after he remarried. So much for Christian love & forgiveness etc. The church people weren't genuinely in the love of JC either - it was all empty form hiding hate and lusts. My relationship with God is between me and God, not some earthly framework of hypocritical people.

[@AlisonChristian-bq4ws]

❤️

[@dolittle6781]

Yes, if in an abusive relationship by all means you should get out but there’s many ways to do that. I escaped from the situation I was in by distancing myself from the abusive individuals, using gray rock, establishing boundaries. and cutting off their narcissistic supply while living in the same household. I stayed there to save my estate and finances. But I stopped being their punching bag. Sometimes you simply have to leave physically I get it. By the way I am happy and productive everyday thanks to a lot of self care.

[@user-bd9ei7yk1t]

Dr. Hawkins and team THANK YOU SO VERY MUCH for taking the time to actually reading and listening to every word this Lady wrote in her letter. That touched my ❤. It’s extremely difficult to find someone who will make you feel and believe that what you’re going through is worthy of attention, empathy, and great advice such as yours. God bless you and the work you all do.

[@monalisa2662]

I could not agree more... so much of her story is my story. My husband told me I am a "F" word idiot and stupid for something that is not even true. I cannot defend myself because he will just get angrier so I just dismiss myself which I believe he interprets as self justification for his verbal abuse. Another senario that just happened is he ordered groceries delivered to our front door. It was all sugar... candy, ice cream, sugar cereal. I simply said it did not look very healthy to which he responded to my weight and he was just doing what fat me does. I do not eat like that... heaven forbid if I did. I am overweight as I have used food as a coping mechanism. Does my silence mean I am not setting boundaries and accepting his abuse? I really need some help navigating years of emotional and at times even physical and financial abuse. I am not sure where to go from here but my health is seriously affected by years of being mistreated.

[@1969kellyp]

I am in a very similar situation with my husband. I have never had an affair on him but I have reacted with physical abuse towards him. I admit to my problems and I hope he will realize what he does to me. I need those boundaries and know how to control my emotions. We live in separate houses so that helps and I am seeing a counselor.

[@KariMotley]

I counseled a woman with a similar story once. Her husband wouldn’t have sex with her, for 15 years he would deny her, reject and give her every excuse as to why he didn’t want to be intimate with her. She was a very beautiful woman hurting inside so badly, crying out for attention from her husband for so many years that just refused to give her any. She ended up in a situation where she had an affair, not a physical affair but emotional and discussing sexuality with the man, the things she’d been desperately missing. Her husband found out about their conversations, took her phone away, threatened to ruin her life and his, etc, etc… then he got to use this against her relentlessly in counseling taking zero accountability for his behavior over 15 years of marriage. Just awful.

[@godzillamanstreb524]

Completely unacceptable….she really can’t blame him anymore….its best to look at her issues and why is she staying??

[@tmking7483]

They do this on purpose _he is taught to abuse from his father. It's the old body club to pass the girls around_ they doing this to little boys too_its about power and control _ and it's very organized in some areas.

[@ArashaSP]

Thank you for addressing her questions. This has been extremely helpful to many of us.

[@angelayaung7417]

I love you all … this is exactly what I’m going through

[@DrPhilGoode]

She said something very important concerning when he brings up…”You are the one who had the affair”. He doesn’t just randomly bring it up, he brings it up when they argue or when they are having issues. Make no mistake he started planning on how he could use that against her the moment he found out about it. Her affair was probably the best thing that could have happened for him.

[@makethatchangelifecoaching4009]

That's not fair, an affair from the first week for 4 months? If that was true, he wouldn't have apologized and admitted what he did.

[@makethatchangelifecoaching4009]

An affair is NEVER right. An affair and staying in a relationship is TWO wrongs, an affair and staying and lying is 3 wrongs! A person who ADMITS APOLOGIZES and uplifts and LEAVES is NOT a narcissist. This is my son who we are talking about. Why are you fully supporting his ex girlfriend and fully taking her side?

[@melis6294]

An affair to cope with her husband's abuse is the wrong way to cope, that's her problem and not his. Many people in abuse relationships don't go have affairs to cope. The husband is unhealthy and she's too.

[@DrPhilGoode]

@@melis6294unhealthy people are attracted to each other no doubt. I’m specifically referencing when he chooses to bring up her indiscretions. He doesn’t bring it up for any other reason than to use as ammunition during a fight. He knows he can always hold that over her head so he uses it against her whenever his own behavior is questioned. Her affair was probably the best thing that could have happened from the narcissist standpoint. He will use it to manipulate and deflect for many years to come.

[@DrPhilGoode]

@@makethatchangelifecoaching4009 ​​⁠This dude displays textbook narcissistic behavior. If you’ve ever been in a long term relationship with a narcissist you will pick up on his playbook rather quickly. I completely understand what led her to cheating on a relationship that doesn’t exist to begin with. I don’t condone cheating, but I absolutely understand how she got there. Anyone who marries a narcissist is themselves emotionally unstable and codependent. The difference though is a narcissist doesn’t apologize and take ownership of their behavior, so at least she has that going for her. If i punched you in the face 5 years ago and sought your forgiveness, that doesn’t give you the right to punch me in the face whenever you want. And when I complain, you bring up the time I punched you 5 yrs ago without taking responsibility for punching me now. That’s what he is doing. Using her past wrong to make it easier for him to continue his own narcissistic behavior.

[@MayuriPatel-iw5xo]

An effective plan for change - leave him to his own counselling. Get your own. Go see a lawyer for a divorce. Beg forgiveness of the man you left for toxic man and start again. You have a choice. You have options. You have agency. Use it. Protect your kids. You’re modelling a cycle of abuse to them - that one tolerates. This is setting up inter generational trauma. Sorry to confront. Fantastic podcast. Thanks.

[@createdformore550]

I've only listened to part of this but the affair sounds like it was her coping mechanism for the dysfunction in their marriage. In pointing that out, I'm not saying that is an acceptable coping mechanism. It is severely damaging faulty thinking to use an affair as a coping mechanism. She has way more choices than she thinks and there are healthy coping mechanisms she needs to learn to choose. She needs to learn boundaries with her husband and has an extremely hard hill to climb to restore the marriage since acting out in an affair.

[@makethatchangelifecoaching4009]

After ONE week? She said she was not able to get over the person she was having an affair with.

[@createdformore550]

@@makethatchangelifecoaching4009 huh?

[@germanarovinelli5973]

Accepting abuse and neglect is part of the problem

[@JoanneBurton-he8fs]

I’ve a couple of questions for the team - does it ever happen that repentance changes the hearts of these people? I have worked out that I have “spiritualised” much of the journey I’ve been on expecting God to change the situation while not being more proactive. Although we have had counselling which I would count again as a total waste of time. Second question is do the children of these marriages copy the relational behaviours of the unhealthy spouse? It scares me that my daughters in law /son in law may suffer through something similar to what I’ve been through.

[@iw9338]

I hear you. I prayed for years, and then realized I had to take action.😢😮😅

[@PassionateFlower]

They don't change. You have to change by setting more boundaries and placing more value in yourself because they will not. It benefits them too much to devalue you. They don't treat the next person any better. They just get craftier at hiding their dysfunction in order to control and manipulate and exploit others all the way until the day they die. They don't change they adapt in order to manipulate the world around them.

[@DahliaBrynn]

24:20 my ex very much feels like he knows better than everyone. Is more qualified, understands the problem more, everyone else has less IQ, etc.

[@cheriybarra2557]

I love your videos, they are helping me, I’ve been in an emotional & physical abuse marriage for 31 yrs. I’m so lost

[@PassionateFlower]

If you can, and only if you feel you can safely do this, it could be helpful to join a domestic violence women's only support group in your area. If you Google local shelters or a warmline number in your state you can call and ask for resources for where to find a support group that meets in person or online or by phone. So many homeles shelters offer separate support groups you don't have to be unhoused to qualify. Emotional abuse and intentional emotional neglect from your spouse also counts as domestic violence as does physical abuse so you can definitely feel legitimately within your rights to seek support. Then you go week after week and learn from counselors and peer mentors and group members that you are not alone on your journey and you have a care team cheering for your wellness. It can take several weeks or months to muster up the courage to make the calls and register for the waitlists but it is worth it once you have community support from other women going through the same things as you in real time.

[@Schquirl]

35:20 😢😭 Truth. I have had all those scenarios.

[@Schquirl]

33:37 behaviors do not have any accountability they do get worse 33:45 I also learned bad behaviors to cope with keeping the peace

[@gloria8027]

You can not work out a problem with a emotional abuser.

[@n.d.6430]

My narcissist was not raised in a abusive homes . Is it hereditary? Could it be a Family traits ? But can they be Created by a parent ? Could it be a Personality trait that was not trained correctly by a parent .

[@natashaevsimon1441]

Yes. Narcissistic traits are hereditary. You are correct.

[@DrPhilGoode]

⁠@@natashaevsimon1441Let’s slow our roll a bit. Narcissism has more factors than just hereditary. Genes may play a part however it is clear that a child’s early environment plays a significant role in developing NPD. An individual WILL NOT develop NPD in a functional, emotionally stable and mature home or environment. NPD breeds NPD…parents with NPD create the exact conditions that allow their children to develop the disorder.

[@DrPhilGoode]

Narcissism can be genetic and environmental though the gene that may cause NPD has never been identified. Yet, most researchers agree that your genes cause less than 23% of this personality type. Even if there is a genetic component to narcissism, it is unlikely that it would be solely responsible for the development of this personality trait. However it is clear that a child’s early environment plays a significant role in developing NPD. When a child is raised in a home where they are constantly praised or in a home where they are always put down, they are more likely to develop this personality disorder. Whatever role genes play in narcissism, NPD definitely can run in families. That’s because parents with NPD themselves are liable to create the exact conditions that put their children at risk of developing the disorder. Children may learn narcissistic behavior patterns from their parents or may be influenced by the way their parents interact with them, causing them to develop NPD later on and exhibit narcissistic traits that will impact their offspring. This creates the cycle that causes narcissism to run in families. When children are consistently shielded from failure, criticism, and the consequences of their actions, they may struggle to develop empathy and an understanding of how their behavior affects those around them.

[@brendazaccardi9419]

35 years, just divorced : mental cruelty And I don't know how to sell everything and move out. I believe it has to be an estate sale of most all the property according to the Decree. So hard but my life is short, I need my emotional healing. I hate leaving my dog in his care when I have to leave to work or any other reason. Void of all emotion from unhealed childhood bereavement. 70 years of not wanting to work unless medicated, then in withdrawal and unavailable to everyone, sabotages the positive or good things, it's diabolical - period!! And then they say, I'll pray for you" 🤬 "God bless you" 🤢 How dare you be gone Satan!!! I'm a mess after this and being my family scapegoat too after my dad passed they transferred more revenge on me. I use to wonder, why do they kept saying, "mental illness" over and over and over. Well now I understand my own trauma thanks to a free consultation with a local Christian counselor, praise God.

[@victoriavitoroulis3273]

They actually don’t see or hear us .. we’re like a card board cut out in their delusional fantasy .

[@kellyw7238]

Dr. Hawkins, what is the usual outcome or end result for the victim of a 13yr love relationship that was just like the womans in this video. the only diffrance being, twards the end of us, he developed PHYCOSISS. I could not handel that at all. & then it ended horribly with him accusing me of all these horrible things he believes I did to him.(which I have not ) it has left me absolutely devisteated, heartbroken, & I've developed a very negetive outlook, depression, & I cry everyday. I've never had any type of counceling, then or now, for all of this & have lost myself because of it all & can't find or afford the particular type of help (like the type you provide.) sure wish I could get some help to pull out of this dark painful place I'm stuck in. 😭💔🖤💔😭

[@russellheyns1846]

Omg. Talk about victim mentality. You had an affair! And they say people tend to attract partners with the same level of emotional maturity or lack thereof.

[@makethatchangelifecoaching4009]

Yes, I agree. An affair is NEVER right. Even though my ex husband cheated on me multiple times and I never had an affair on him once and even when I wanted to get him back, I couldn't and was honest and always told him even tho he pushed me away and didn't care

[@tmking7483]

I work with 100 genius people _ it's amazing to be around so many geniuses _ like living with the Beverly Hilbellies.

[@diegotejera2742]

She cheated doesn't sound like she doesn't feel safe. His reactive abuse can also make it easier to play the victim. Complex one but that relationship looks done.

[@MayuriPatel-iw5xo]

Change yourself. Stop controlling him.

[@Schquirl]

26:19 yes there are some counselors that are pure evil or very foolish. A total waste of time is correct.