Why Professions in The War Within Are Not Casual Friendly

[@hyshade5132]

The biggest problem I've always had with crafting in WoW is that the raw mats pretty much always sell for higher than the finished product. If you want to make a ton of gold at the start of an xpac, just sell everything, greens, blues, anything you might harvest, it's really crazy because everything is in such high demand.

[@ImStillPlaying]

@hyshade5132 Honestly for casual and even not so casual I think dual gathering is the way to go, especially until you get to 80. Then if you're so inclined pick up a crafting profession after reaching max level.

[@maba6125]

This is my issue with it too! I actually love the new tastemaker once work orders work from the warbank except how bad it feels to craft anything knowing it’s so much cheaper to just buy it even though crafting is my top favorite. I’m planning to have some fun with skinning and thamaturgy/transmutation for the most part instead.

[@rufus_the_cat]

Yep this is what ruins it. Even before the new crafting overhaul

[@andriib9390]

A lot of crafted things cost the same as mats or slightly lower because crafting in wow is basically FREE. Sure, you need to level up you skill and buy pattern, but after that you can basically print all items for free, just buying the needed mats. Current system actually tries to address that quite well, making leveling up crafting professions hard, making different people to level different tree builds, concentration makes craft take not just material but your real time as well. The inly thing that I do not like about it, is that this system is also easy to abuse by "professional goldmakers", that basically create tens or hundreds of alts (alt armies) to craft all the concentration heavy crafts, and to have all different builds of different professions ready for any market turn. But otherwise, I like this system

[@BulkersRuleZ]

This is the case in later stages of xpac. Mats will eventually cost more than product because a lot of people will benefit only from multicraft and rescoursfulness

[@francantanimor]

I agree with you that Crafting/Professions are not for casual player.

[@raze956]

my experience with professions in WW: i look at the crafting interface, and im like "what is all this"? Then i close it and thats it. no worries

[@ImStillPlaying]

This is a smart reaction TBH.

[@jasantana]

I burnt through so much gold leveling both engineering and jewelcrafting to find out that the profit earned from engineering is almost nonexistent, and JC requires tier 2 to tier 3 in some pieces to earn good profits overtime and if i wanted to be economical about it then I would have to on an alt farm mining nodes to avoid paying extra on the AH to make the most profit... it's time-consuming, and I lost the motivation to continue with professions.

[@victorvelasco1693]

Wdym bro just make tier 3 gems everyday with concentration

[@ValryshaClips]

I felt like the professions in Legion were meaningful to the casual player as well as 'power-users', whilst not being overly complex. They had limits to stop people from just sitting in town doing nothing except crafting (Blood of Sargeras) and incentivised pairing gathering with crafting (again, with Bloods). I miss Legion's professions a lot.

[@ImStillPlaying]

@ValryshaClips Yeah I really liked how they integrated questing with recipe acquisition in Legion crafting. Agreed!

[@DerekScottBland]

(before watching) Of all the stuff they introduce for one expansion and then drop, this is the bullshit system they had to keep. Supposedly this crafting system is to combat the bots (how I don't know) but all it succeeds in doing is giving the power gamers with no lives and 24/7 to spend on the game a brief window at the beginning of the xpac to make money, and a permanent system that punishes the casual player for daring to have a life outside of WoW. Even cooking, a profession I once prided myself on not only maximizing every xpac but getting every single possible recipe for, has become ridiculously complicated.

[@BorgWolf359]

Yep, I hate the new Profession system! I love your idea of a skill talent tree that levels up as we go!

[@Bain6969]

i miss vanilla crafting....things were easier back then

[@Iandar1]

It’s so much more involved, I don’t really bother with it anymore. Given prior to its revamp I was person in my guild to make sure everyone had potions and flasks and such.

[@victorvelasco1693]

Vanilla crafting was much worse, what a dumbass rose tinted goggles take

[@killuminati2911]

Everything was easier back then. Life was easier

[@Slippy82]

I have a fucknlaod of leather gathered with my rogue. Loads of enhancements and buts for crafting but no idea and no will to try and craft my gear...

[@GalcianBTH]

The system is just an slightly less mandatory AP system Legion/BFA level engagement.

[@mirandelf]

Thanks for highlighting this. I so agree with you, they have completely broken the crafting system for the casual player. I have always loved crafting in WOW, the rpg element of going out farming mats and then making a great piece of gear for myself - I still remember my first Spidersilk boots. But now it’s just a busy work system for gold makers and high end guild crafters and is largely inaccessible to the casual player as you demonstrated. I don’t want to use professions to set up a gold making factory, I just want to make some gear for my various characters. I managed to make myself a couple of spark items by spending a lot of time levelling skills and gaining knowledge points as well as using alts to gather all my own mats. There are so many things I would like to make if only for the transmog but I’m not able to get to due to limited KP and sparks. The only positive thing is that it is a slight improvement on DF now that concentration makes high level crafts more possible and the NPC order system allows you to gain skill and knowledge points without having to find customers for your gear.

[@ImStillPlaying]

Thanks for coming by the channel and 100% agree. I would love to see them implement a version of a system that could bring back that original feel of "I just want to make some cool stuff for myself" and that's not necessarily aimed at only professinal crafters running a warband full of druid gathering alts.

[@mklizzar]

Im 100% sure blizz will make the profession system almost identical in the next expansion, but they might make changes to crafting orders and possibly make it possible for people to post gear on AH that then can be activated by putting sparks on it.

[@mklizzar]

I do agree that professions that craft gear is complex for a newbie.

[@cristisibiseni]

i have to agree, crafting is dead for me. i crafted a one handed sword myself back in dragonflight, not at 5/5 stars of course, and pushing some m+ got me a new one pretty fast. i used to have a enchanter toon just to craft myself some enchants - now i just go AH, buy som enchants and that it. my problem is the time invested sitting in town, at the bench - i rather be smashing somethin, or just fly around from place to place. gearing is so easy that you dont actualy need these crafted items, unless you push hard on above 10s m+ and mythic raiding. I began tier 8 delves at 585 ilvl, and my tanks are now 605ish - why even bother craft a 590ish. BTW! this week Timewalking Raid - go there - dont even bother doing 5x tw dungeons - bosses drop 597 and people can actualy trade you the gear they dont need, since many have better, and the reward from last boss quest from Shatt is 610. good luck!

[@ImStillPlaying]

Yeah that's another aspect of it as well that I really didn't have time to touch on, but it's so easy to gear right now even as a solo casual player, again it kind of obviates the reason why you would craft stuff for yourself, even if you can.

[@gentlepengu]

my friend tried to get into crafting, bought all the profession gear, thousands of gold leveling tailoring, ended up net loss and it was not useful

[@jgn1977]

The problem with crafting is and always will be the limited amount of crafts available vs the amount of people available to craft. I am an alloy specialist and even with everything maxxed out and full multicraft and resourcefulness, my profit on 100k worth of purchased materials is around 1-2%. Now maybe 1-2k profit for 10 minutes worth of refining is worth it but often its not if the price fluctuates downward quickly like it does with the frameworks as an example.

[@Deutsch_Qualitat]

i like the new profession system apart the time limitation. If they do the same without caping ressources it would suit me better. The game is more and more accessible, we even have solo high gear option with the delves, but this feels like a step backward. If they plan to release an extension every year and it takes 6 months to get all the knowledge points, something is wrong. Concentration is a good improvment. It saves material and frustration from bad rng.

[@parrydigm]

I'm so out of touch on WoW crafting but this reminds me why I went full harvester spec back in the day - it made me more money to buy AH stuff with than trying to craft myself. Might have been an Aman'thul server thing, who knows 🤣 This vid also reminds me that often MMOs seem to use crafting as another time sink rather than something fun; they can often be a loop to sink mats/gold/whatever to help keep the economy outside the bounds of inflation.

[@ImStillPlaying]

@parrydigm To their credit I really do believe Blizz is working at making professions engaging and interesting. I just think they're overly complex at the moment, and have some serious gating problems.

[@Max-dv1kq]

wotlk private server player or what

[@screenshotted]

Just think about how easy it is to upgrade normal gear than it is to upgrade crafted gear. It's insane where the only limit really is valorstones but to recraft something it's a ton of money to get the thing done plus you are time gated on sparks

[@No-Me3]

It feels like if I miss a week, or don't keep up with it complete, then it's game over. Or if I didn't choose the right things at the start, it's over. I maxed 1 profession in DF and it took me almost the entire xpac. I pretty much gave up trying. I just do a little now and then whenever I feel like it. Everything I get in lvl 8 delves is already better anyway. Since DF, for the first time since this game launched, I have not been able to provide myself with my own gems/enchants/potions/flasks.

[@ImStillPlaying]

I find this to be very true for myself as well. While leveling, quest gear would immediately replace anything I might have crafted. And then delves produce better gear than anything but the most high end of pieces, which I can't make anyway because I didn't choose the right specialization.

[@ai_serf]

About 5 min when you have your first Eureka moment: Skill trees for crafting! It seems so obvious now that you have said it. This would reduce complexity, go from two interfaces too one, while still allowing for that RPG feeling of uniqueness. Since this idea is so good, I assume we will never see it in wow. ( i play this game in place of AA meetings and it works!, but the game owners obviously put profit before fun, luckily after 90 days of sobriety, I'll quit this game for good!).

[@ImStillPlaying]

lol well thanks and yeah hope springs eternal - after all there's lots of good things in this expansion I never thought I'd see, so I guess we'll see!

[@Scuuurbs]

New system suuuuuucks Like, it’s fun to unlock little perks and bonuses for your craft, but the tradeoff is this giant time-gated hassle of a system where unnecessarily soulbound items actually seem to be a detriment to the crafting market, at least on my server. I almost never see public crafting orders aside from the occasional PvP gear - which you have to do PvP for, meaning only specific crafters who ALSO PvP are even able to make the stuff… it’s f*cking ridiculous. It’s also tripled the amount of reagents we have to keep track of, and there’s the consideration of “do I spend big money on a top tier craft and risk getting an upgrade soon after, or do I settle for an inferior product?” which doesn’t feel great at all. I just, I miss being able to level my crafts as I level my characters, and I miss the guilt-free feeling of keeping all my gear gemmed/enchanted because it wasn’t that expensive to do.

[@ImStillPlaying]

Yeah that last bit is exactly the thing I miss the most as well. Just being able to easily gather enough materials and craft gear for my character that's useful.

[@renecaminada5867]

At this moment my druid have itemlevel 603 overall and I have only 2 items below itemlevel 603. With a full Vault (8x T8 Delves) I have 3 chances for 616 itemlevel gear. So why on earth I go spend 40-50K gold on 1 item that will be absolute in a few weeks or I get for 'free' via the vault system. I do T8 delves on my druid in a group, because I am not a tank. BUT on my much lower itemlevel warlock (about 584, no luck with drops) I do them all solo, even the bountiful ones (easy). As Alchemist / Enchanter I can go for the upgraded Alchemist stone and push it to 636. For most upgrades I can ask a guildmember. As always within the guild some have focus on one tier and the other another tier off each profession. And smart guilds assign players to go for differs specialisations, so all is covered. In 1-2 weeks I can make the expensive flaks cauldrons, but I will not make them for myself but if the guild needs it, they provide me the needed materials and I can make them. LOL, you have 21K gold left! YEP, like this the system works for those whom makes money from selling items at those whom wants better gear for 2-3 weeks :p Whom can afford buying the Longneck vendor/ AH mount is not spending huge amounts of gold on items for the 2-3 weeks they are gonna use it. I am not rich because I sell items, I am rich because I am not spending gold on items for short-use. PLUS 7K for the work order... LOL, ask a guildmate, there you have them for. Doing some research affront spending the knowledge points is WISE. Be patience is key. Ask guildmembers for making items is another key.

[@stevelamb9453]

they have made the proffesions over complicated ive not touched them i know they can make gold but i just cant be bothered other than gathering pick herbs or mine sell on the AH

[@ImStillPlaying]

@@stevelamb9453 This is the way!

[@jacobmitchell9227]

They’re actually really good and anyone can make gold with them with concentration. This is the best iteration of professions they have ever had.

[@TheVeynom]

profession actually sucks, theres some things good don't get me wron,g but i think they should put the effort like talents etc in other aspects of the game, it's have to be simplified, keep specialisation but tweak it to be more casual freindly like a wrath of lich king era ++

[@rogueheart1]

My biggest issue with crafting in wow is that is boring and time consuming for little reward. Even more so in with specialization, a lazy way to gate and add ‘progression’. Think Blizzard needs enhance the crafting experience. Tbh I'm hint at how FF14 has designed crafting, atm all wow need to do is optionally gameify it. Except for gathering quite honestly the worst (excluding fishing)

[@rbluhm]

I stoped play, one of the reasons is this system. Good luck who will still playing.

[@TheN3llee]

I disagree with about 80% of your take. Could it be simpler and less convoluted, sure. But the previous crafting system that was used for 20+ years needed a serious overhaul. I feel like your bad take is a result of lack of knowledge and experience. While I've found myself doing more crafting this Xpac then ever before. Being a max BS has been insanely profitable crafting weapons for tips via the crafting system. I'm up prob around 500,000 at least from just tips. For the first time ever since prob classic people on my server are seeking me out for crafting cause I did a craft for their friend or their guildmate and that above all else is amazing to me. I do wish the order system could be overhauled a bit. Not being able to craft a BoE item and list in the AH sucks. Sitting there spamming trade chat advertising my crafts inbetween quests and quest also sucks.

[@shwaaank]

For the majority it is still over complicated, good that you find easy and accessible, a lot of people dont

[@ImStillPlaying]

@TheN3llee FWIW, you are exactly the player for whom the current system is built for, and it's meeting well the goals the designers set out for it. Cheers!

[@Briansgate]

Yep, I freaking hate this crafting system now.

[@mewmewmineable]

Yea first time I actually invested time in more than 4 professions. I have almost two of each crafting profession and it's ridiculous tbh very time/gold consuming. Wanted to make gold...so yea it's a lot in professions.

[@Xstr8edgeX26]

Ive been making bolts and selling them. Pretty much all I can do, everything is out of price for me.

[@littlemudlost]

You should have at least 3 zeros after your subscriber count - you are good

[@ImStillPlaying]

That may be the nicest comment I've ever received. Thanks so much and thanks for coming by!

[@BulkersRuleZ]

If you think professions system in DF and TWW is "convoluted and overly complex" then I feel sorry for you. Well thats a lie... Im not feeling sorry, because of people like you I make 2-3 tokens a week by using professions for 2h. But looking at your UI and lack of keybinds. I pressume you are a clicker but I guess keybinds are also convoluted and overly complex.

[@shwaaank]

Toxic much?

[@victorvelasco1693]

Brother professions are always going to be not casual friendly because of how competitive the gold making market is , its impossible to make a cssual friendly crafting overhaul because what matters is offer and demand, with casuals getting always outsmarted by the tryhards. Get over it noobs

[@DerekScottBland]

wow, how does your head fit through doors with how swollen it is? Casuals drive this game. Your "tryhards," aka "keyboard virgins in mommy's basement who can afford to play 24/7" are just the vocal minority.

[@isiseungella4688]

I am a casual and have crafted since vanilla. The new system is convoluted but in TWW it allows both goblin gold makers a real challenge while casuals can make some competitive gear to use or sell with "concentration" ie a few items twice a week. But you need to understand how the system works and choose wisely which speciality to pick first. To make big gold, however, you need a lot more understanding, time, gold and dedication in this super competitive environment. The main issue not being crafting but competition on AH or wasting time in trade chat if you don't have a guild buying from you. The new system will have us plan, strategize, invest, market as the needs of players change. In the old system, you bought mats, crafted for 30 minutes and from then on, it was a boring repetition to make a few items or sell them. At most you had the low drop rate for a recipe, now you need rep and currency, forcing you to hard choices with consequences. So yes, it's easier to farm and sell mats, very relaxing too. Crafting can make you or loose you a lot of gold. But it's fun across the full expansion. It's also high customisation of high end pieces eg with the stats, ilvl and property you choose. We went from playing dominoes to playing chess, so it's not to everyone's taste, but there are plenty of videos to learn the basics and succeed with simple build. Be open-minded, get informed and join the fun.

[@mirandelf]

You have completely misunderstood the issue. Professions have been ruined over time as they have become only about goldmaking.

[@victorvelasco1693]

@@DerekScottBland I'm literally just explaining the reason that this is the fact, if that's impossible for you to understand that's your problem

[@victorvelasco1693]

@@mirandelf professions can ONLY be about gold making, the auction house makes it so that if something costs x to make, you can always find it on AH costing x+1 so you never need professions ever if you're a casual. Get over it you crybaby losers, you have no understanding of basic game economy or causation