Why Rin is ACTUALLY the Villain of Final Fantasy X, X-2 and VII (story theory)

It is rare that a Final Fantasy Villain is so sneaky both the characters in the story AND the fans failed to notice him. BIG theory on why Rin is actually responsible for a great deal that happened in X X-2 and VII. Covering the incident at the mi'hen highroad, the FFX ultimania, details of the farplane, mako extraction and more.
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[@YunaPhoenixful]

I have to point out, say this theory is correct and Rin was working with Yevon and totally emotionless about Home being destroyed... how did Yevon even find Home to destroy it? What if Rin totally betrayed them to Yevon? And that explains why his goods were spared, because he was prepared.

[@YunaPhoenixful]

I know, right?!

[@TheJakeis16]

And what if Rin convinced kinnoch to run operation Mi'hen from Mushroom Rock knowing it's failure would cause more hatred and despair to form there helping towards the events of FFX-2

[@aspensmith2696]

Jake Sanders Double holy moly! That would be insane. But if the theory is true, totally possible.

[@trvth1s]

Before fighting sin an albhed in the airship mentions some from the inside must have snitched on homes location

[@sirdipping2244]

if yuna wasn't so focused on finding Tidus, she may have been able to see the bigger picture when she realized Rin was behind the mi'hen incident

[@AWOL_Narwhal]

the letter R is right next to the letter S. which means...Rin is basically Sin....

[@skotttownzend5170]

Patrick Leal Thank you for seeing the bigger picture lol I think Rin created Yuyevon

[@m2000x]

Patrick Leal really+Sin= Rin

[@helenastenvislavskovic]

Coincidence? I think not.

[@ShadowBrave21]

Nooooooo

[@smartfrenandromax6651]

Patrick Leal | Rin ≈ Macross' Minmay. Sin ≈ Moon God. Minmay is often compared to the Moon Princess Kaguya (see Touho), who was taken away from the Earth by the Moon Ship/Calvary (see Macross Flashback 2012). Therefore, could it be that the Moon is related?

[@BlackTechs]

I'm taking Rin off my blitzball team now. 😡😡

[@shirokaizoku]

Brother is better

[@shizukagozen777]

BlackTechs 😂😂😂

[@BaranoJosei]

Lakkam was always my MVP.

[@DeltaCain13]

Shu was mine.

[@johnnyscifi]

Yea, fuck that guy!!!

[@youngfox2186]

Yevon: I'm the greatest villain of the universe! Rin: I'm about to destroy this man's whole career!

[@Lady.of.the.Landfill]

Also, in the audio drama, it's asked something like "who would wish for Sin to return?' Well.....could be Rin. He'd benefit from the Beckoning.

[@julientruchet9070]

And in FFX, when you bring Rin the 26 Al Bhed manuals, what does he give to you ? That's right. 99 UNDERDOG'S SECRET. Everything connected.

[@TheMovieEm]

At first, I was like, no way! But then I remembered the part where the party fights Evrae (sp?) in the game. He is on the ship that's being attacked and yet refuses to give away potentially lifesaving healing items for free. Wakka even comments that if they die, he dies. But he still asks for money. At the time I thought he was just a greedy dude but this video has recontextualized that scene for me. He IS a greedy dude but there's so much more to it than that. So yeah. I can buy into this theory. It makes sense.

[@eatenbythedistance4178]

Movie Em if we fail thats means we all die. I have confidence in your ability

[@AntipaladinPedigri]

If he is an unsent it wouldn't have mattered to him they died since he'd be back.

[@GilvanPlays]

In the final fantasy 7 remake, close to the end of the game, when we are in the shinra building going for a tour on the building, there is a room that is like a museum, in one picture has a photo of a team that looks like the founders of the company. And shinra, the masked boy, is there, but in the photo he is an adult, that pretty much confirms everything related to shinra and the mako extraction.

[@TofuSG98]

Then what are Cetra is my question now.

[@alloneness6956]

So..who's ricard and his son from II and kain in IV? same goes between VII and X Nothing that seem connected.. Many fans are too over for this..they just want X-3. I prefer that..it won't happen..

[@GilvanPlays]

@@alloneness6956 yoshinori kitase, one of the creators from 7 and 10 confirmed that the both games are connected in a interview, and that's it.

[@GilvanPlays]

@@alloneness6956 I don't want to see a ffx-3 aswell.

[@alloneness6956]

@@GilvanPlays yeah2..just in same "world".. What "world"? maybe "world of FF" and you see it as "connection". ahh...I think i should stop commenting on theories peories video.. I don't understand what's happening to FF fans now..are they an old skool type or still green as pickle fans?..too much noise. Whatever they bring...doesn't we just have to enjoy it?...that's it

[@KiomonDuck]

i think its the chocobos, i mean they are everywhere

[@ameya193]

kiomon They're multiplying...expanding...

[@shizukagozen777]

kiomon Lol But they're so cute. x3

[@MikyBounty]

shizukagozen777 Too cute... they must hide something for sure!

[@shizukagozen777]

мιку вσυηту LMAO 😂

[@smartfrenandromax6651]

kiomon | Chocobos… Tribbles? That being said, yes, it's interesting on how the Chocobos managed to be in various Final Fantasy stories. Then again, there're Phantasy Star's Rappies and Star Wars' Porgs.

[@AT-qm8gv]

Rin is the ancestor of Hojo, the father of Sephiroth.

[@thehod2616]

you know what would be cool is if they referance this in the ff7 remake by having a photo framed in the main office of the shinra company showing its founding members and at the head of them all is shinra from ffx the first president of the shinra company and Rin himself is sat right next to him...

[@iamsoldats]

The Hod Um... was this comment really made 2 years ago? Because there is totally a picture in the ff7 remake that has Shinra in it smack dab in the center.

[@raystu9097]

@The Hod Wow...Mindblown😱

[@AceGunnerManEIR]

@@iamsoldats You think the developers are watching this lol

[@raynethescribe2772]

... dude do you work with square because this literally happened. It's not in the main office but it's in it's museum section like... this was 3 years ago wtf

[@thehod2616]

@@raynethescribe2772 your kidding did they really I was looking for it too.

[@radwolf9462]

OMG!! All the dots are connected now .. everything make sense :O Thanks Pez , you opened my eyes. If there will ever be a sequel for FFVII it will be for the Shinra's super secret project for the rebirth of Rin, the project RR(project Rin Rebirth)...and all these years Shinra was just a puppet...best video that you ever made..

[@EliWintercross]

Rad Wolf Shinra.... is an anagram for Has Rin....

[@radwolf9462]

good point! ..or else ''has'' means possess, own, or hold... so everything in Shinra is just Rin's possessions..he owns everything..he is the mind behind all of this and we will see the end of his masterplan soon..this theory just opens so many doors..

[@HarryBillyBobGeorge]

Nah, there's enough FF7 plot points that have yet to be wrapped up. Genesis is still up to something.

[@MagusDouken]

"The proceeds did not go to rebuilding an entire city in two years" Because, you know, that massive of a project can be done so quickly...

[@Northwite]

Uh, there was no Al Bhed traitor that provided Bevelle with their machina. Bevelle had machina since their war with Zanarkand and it's how they were able to win over Zanarkand. They never stopped using it, they just hid it from the world. And obviously Sin destroyed the majority of it but not all of it. Bevelle's hidden histories would be enough to show the Yevonites how to use their still existing machina.

[@hyldrklein451]

Here are some reasons why I just can fully agree with this. A. Yuna's songstress dressphere aka the new beginnings sphere was found by kimahri. He stumbled upon it while venturing into the newly emerged ruins in gagazet after the storm above the mountain had cleared up. B. There was no way to tell about vegnagun's existence just by watching the new beginnings sphere. All it showed was shuyin saying something about using a weapon. C. The only sphere that clearly showed vegnagun's existence is the one you steal from the yevonites. (The one where you have to choose who you'll give it back to after you have stolen it) But the only time that rin couldve seen it is during the timeline of FFX if he truly was working with the yevonites. D. Its not surprising to see if bevelle had access to intricate machina because if i remember correctly, bevelle was a remnant of a machina city ages ago. And considering the machina war that had happened 1000 years ago, you could assume thats when the division of the al bhed and yevonites started. E. Bevelle's cloister of trials had intricate machina. Which contained the fayth of bahamut, which is supposed to be 1000 years old. If rin was the one behind the machinas in there, then he'd be a thousand year old unsent.

[@safnhuo]

It was already officially confirmed several times in the past that FF X and X 2 were both prequels to FF VII, but it's insane how we all overlooked this guy's activities for 16 years straight, when Square had been giving us obvious signs this whole time. So that means Rin's research into the farplane was how he discovered the mako lifestream...........hoooly shiiiiiii- that means it was because of him that people started "randomly" coming back to life without any explanation and Sin returned, like Auron was talking about. Rin caused the fucking apocalypse at the beginning of FF X, and got himself killed, hince he became an unsent. Which is why he made contact with Shinra, so Shinra could continue where Rin left off and help him with his research. Calling Rin a sociopath would be a massive understatement.

[@mohawkbrando]

If this turned out to be true, it would mean Rin is Ardyn done right.

[@TheBlueCerulean]

You just added a whole new level of depth to these games. Good video,I don't think anyone has ever covered this theory.

[@boglemeister]

Would be cool if he became the MAIN villain in X-3

[@Otoshi_Gami]

agreed. he seem to have a hidden motive for doing all this manipulations on FFX and 2. i hope that he become a memorable surprise villain where he played everyone from the very beginning for some hidden aganda.

[@blackmamba3436]

boglemeaster how do you know if there will be a X-3 I'm hoping for it but I haven't heard or seen anything else about it

[@boglemeister]

Black Mamba34 i watched another youtuber's video talking about it (i forget who unfortunately- maybe ffpeasant?). he gave some evidence but obviously there wasnt that much to go on. i dont expect an x-3, im just an optimist lol

[@Lady.of.the.Landfill]

Maybe Rin caused the Beckoning in the AudioDrama. =O

[@blackmamba3436]

I hope a FFX3 does happen I really hope because the developer said it might happen

[@222RL]

Actually a really good theory. I never thought much of Rin but now... maybe he's a sociopath or psychopath

[@TheFixer_1]

222RL it'd make rin a sociopath

[@romanchavez5408]

He's a psychopath..he never had real feelings just ambition.

[@smartfrenandromax6651]

222RL | Rin is just like Xenogears' Mian/Miang/Myahle. Rin-Mian.

[@brandonpayne7463]

If this is the case, then that means if an FFX-3 gets made, Rin and Shinra should have some impact in it because of the condition of the Farplane with all of that overflowing power, which honestly sounds very intriguing.

[@hirenpatel1023]

Brandon Payne what is he wished sin back from the farplane in the audio drama

[@jewls8905]

popk88.hp Possible because Sin and all that comes with it must of brought him quite a nice cash flow.

[@brandonpayne7463]

+popk88.hp Holy shit could you imagine. That would be insane.

[@brandonpayne7463]

+Dean Beaven Yeah. Sin coming back would make Rin's business boom for sure.

[@HarryBillyBobGeorge]

Not just his shop business. But also if people died, there would be more Farplane/Mako energy. My God.

[@NoctisZeroWorld]

I started the video thinking that Pez was making this as a joke. i finished the video like: O.O

[@tomgray1925]

This actually makes alot of sense, Rin & his goods were spared during the attack on the al bhed city because yevon had a close working relationship with him.

[@Order-Sol]

So Rin is the one who helped the Yevonites to rebuild Penance the entire time??? Wow, just wow, I did not see that coming.

[@Floydthefuckbag]

Oh what, just cause he's Al Bhed means he has to be a villain? Racist!

[@preyearroberts7842]

Floydthefuckbag it's not racist. remember it's a theory.

[@JeevZzZz]

Preyear Roberts Do you get jokes?

[@preyearroberts7842]

yes I get jokes I just didn't know that was a joke.

[@Floydthefuckbag]

You seriously thought I was offended on behalf of a race that doesn't exist?

[@preyearroberts7842]

jeez I'm sorry I didn't know. I mean tons of people get offended these days.

[@scoots291]

I will not allow these allegations for (my) aesaid auorches starting midfielder to go any further. he is a good blitzball player and the fans cheer and love to see him. we have tested him for drugs and came up negative. we do test all our players for drugs and the ones who test positive we ask where they got their drugs from and why they didn't share. anymore questions can be made to this machna to my right. (it is programmed to destroy what complains to it). thank you and have a pleasant tomorrow

[@workliferecognition7002]

Lol

[@gido0471]

I can't unsee this theory as false. Good work, Hopefully its true now.

[@somed214]

This sorta works well when you consider that Spira doesn't really have a lifestream. A world like FFVII's planet has vast flowing streams of aether pretty much filling up the planet, while Spira has fairly stagnant and relatively limited amounts of aether. This not only explains the need for a summoner to send the dead to the farplane (because that energy does not flow on its own) but also explains why Shinra and Rin were unsuccessful in extracting mako. There just wasn't enough energy for them to use. But if the Shinra family knew how to extract mako and just didn't have a lifestream to draw on, if they traveled to FFVII's planet they could actually use that technology for the first time. My theory is that some Spirans, including the Shinra family, made that one-way trip to FFVII planet a few decades prior to the Wutai war, possibly to escape Sin (which has been stated to be a permanent part of Spira and which returns to life at the end of that audio drama). Once there they discover that the planet is rich in aether, and thus their old mako tech can finally be used. The rest is history.

[@smartfrenandromax6651]

S S | See the Flashback scene in Nibelhim's Shinra Mansion, before Sephiroth destroyed the village. Cloud & co are indeed confirmed to be Cetras/Settlers who moved in to the Planet. Whether they came from Shinra's Immigrant Fleet or not, undecided.

[@smartfrenandromax6651]

S S | Honestly, all of these talks about harvesting energy reminded me of the G1 Transformers. Interestingly the ending of Transformers: Beast Machines resembled the ending of Final Fantasy VII. They basically reformatted Cybertron into a techno-organic planet.

[@aesirshero2490]

What if Rin sold out the Al Bhed and Home to the Guado for money. Then schemed up that whole Donations for Home to pocket more money to further his research. Which could also explain why he was at Home at that exact time.

[@mismismism]

I kinda love this theory and I hope, if the rumored sequel ends up happening, they elaborate on this.

[@Controcetica]

I think all fans of FFX and FFX-2 should watch this video. I was super into FFX-2 so I knew some of this information like Rin's involvement in the Highroad Incident and the developer's comments from the Ultimania confirming the connection between FFX-2 and FFVII but I definitely think that should be more widely known. Plus you have some new stuff in here too! The idea that Rin worked alongside Bevelle and the Yevonites is interesting. I don't personally think they needed Al Bhed help to maintain and use their technology - I'm pretty confident that they would have known how to operate it by rote - but it is quite likely if they wanted to do anything new or experiment they would have needed technical assistance from an Al Bhed. So I'll say it's possible! It is also interesting to theorise that Rin told the Guado where the Al Bhed Home was. Whether RIn is Unsent or not is hard to say. I doubt it has any affect on his being a sociopath/psychopath though. We have plenty of those in the real world lol. But yeah, Rin is definitely a self centered and ambitious man. If there had been a Final Fantasy X-3 I am pretty confident Rin would be the villain of at least an arc, if not the whole game.

[@Draikenx]

He's also one of the best blitz ball players around. He must be a villain.

[@wschippr1]

Draikenx Is he? Iirc he was a good middle forward but that's about it. He wasn't great, as it generally was better to just use three forward players than a true mid fielder.

[@Draikenx]

Wade Schipprack Well I haven't played the game since it literally first came out. But I do remember he was one of the best players I had on my blitz ball team. But like I said one of the best but not thee best.

[@draco_izanagi]

Draikenx iirc after keepa he becomes the best goalie

[@benshihadeh8561]

Ok, I genuinely chuckled at that.

[@MK-vi2cm]

Draikenx Jotaro Kujo syndrome

[@XxXLuuKXxX]

Rin is like the Gus Frings of FinalFantasy

[@vinceunknown1935]

So he will own a fried Chocobo establishment?

[@whirled_peas]

@@vinceunknown1935 that would be a hilarious detail to add into a future game to make you hate him more

[@user-gi2mn5yf5j]

Excellent presentation. I also recall speaking to survivors around the Home attack and someone pointed out that someone must have leaked Home's location to Yevon / Guado. RIN!

[@ganimade400]

coming here after today's stream..omg this is craaaazy it really does connected

[@altair1913]

I always see your video titles and think, ha yea right. Then twenty minutes later I'm pretty convinced.

[@lolersthe4th880]

This perfectly sums up his theory videos. They're always so deeply rooted in the game's lore that they're really difficult to refute. He doesn't make wild conjecture either; it's always a logical progression.

[@smartfrenandromax6651]

Andrew Rodgers | I'm convinced in the Space Immigration part, because it was mentioned in Final Fantasy VII itself. As for the Rin part. Explained first the connection between Rin, Rinoa Heartilly, and Rin Minmei (Macross' Minmay Lynn).

[@cozza358]

Am I the only one who doesn't want outright confirmation? What would make this even better if additional bread crumbs are scattered throughout the potential X-3, further convincing us of the theory. If it gets to a point where the game states Rin is in fact a/the villain plus explains how, it'll no longer have this incredible twisted out there theory vibe but just a 'he was the villain' outcome instead. To keep teasing it would make this theory all the more juicy, especially with the plot of X-3 revolving around an unstable farplane!

[@697_]

This is a great theory Rin seems so likely. I love it. You put so much thought into this!

[@DexterManning]

Man this one of the best videos I’ve seen in a while, final fantasy x and x-2 are my favourite games man, so much depth to it Anyway, really enjoyed this- looking forward to more content!

[@double2254]

Good news, in FFX I bought all my goods from non-Rin shops... now I feel good about that. I don’t trust anything anymore. Except Vivi... he cannot do anything evil.

[@SessmaruKusanagiGaming]

Doubledasher Kingdom Hearts Nobody Vivi though. He was a dick. Although not technically Vivi lol.

[@smartfrenandromax6651]

Doubledasher | Vivi, didn't he came from He-Man or something?

[@double2254]

Smartfren Andromax That is a different one. Talking about Vivi from FFIX (the black mage)

[@buttertoast1146]

@@SessmaruKusanagiGaming yeah it was nice to beat his ass with the middle struggle weapon

[@Otoshi_Gami]

i just thought about something. if hes the HIDDEN VILLAIN of FFX series, then could there be a possibility that RIN himself threw a BOMB BALL to tidus on FFX 2.5 Novel? that would be a HUGE PLOT TWIST if it is him.

[@Lady.of.the.Landfill]

Also, in the audio drama, it's asked something like "who would wish for Sin to return?' Well.....could be Rin. He'd benefit from the Beckoning.

[@Otoshi_Gami]

exactly. he probably the only person who can manipulate SEYMOUR, SHUYIN, cult of yu yevon, and all other just to get what he wants.

[@skotttownzend5170]

Otoshigami gonna write this again but Rin just might have been the creator of sin, it's said that the practice of bad machina is what brang Sin and he openly told YRP that that's just what he does also he can travel thru Sin back and forwards thru Time because he is unsent. I have more on this topic but I'll have to write it as my own comment to this video.

[@LeonA0]

Sin didnt come from bad machina.... The canon is sin is a grand sumoning. Created by yu yevon. Who you defeat in 10.

[@LeonA0]

And rin canot be unseant. They still age. Auron aged. The meisters aged. Etc. Untill they are sent to the farplane they will age. And rin is not old

[@chriswakley2362]

I love coming back here to rematch this theory, it genuinely was a labour of love to work on and pez brought it to life so damn well!

[@chriswakley7301]

@final fantasy peasant this video came out so much better than I could have hoped for! I'm still buzzing after watching it, and very happy I could be a part of its creation!!

[@AlexBermann]

In Rins defense: his motivation still may be benevolent. First off, let's talk about his weird personality. He doesn't need to be an unsent, but he does lack empathy. This doesn't necessarily make him a bad person, he could become passionate about a benevolent goal and put his whole weight in it without sympathizing with anyone. As far as Rin is concerned, the Al Bhed home was destroyed for two simple reasons: Yevon doesn't accept them and has greater military power. Previously, Rin tried to influence the church of Yevon by helping the machina - accepting faction by providing them machina (of course for a price). He didn't consider that that faction was just a bunch of hypocrites. So his plan for cultural harmony failed - it backfired even. So, Rin needs military force to defend a new home. He researches offensive machina, but often, he fails because those machina need considerable energy. Furthermore, his research is expensive, so he puts all his profits in it. When he finds Spherebreak, he monetizes it - and Shinra turns out to be the best player. Rin is please as these funds will help Shinra with his research. That Luca jumped upon another bandwagon without regard to anything else is to be expected. That city is just stupid that way. When he no longer needs his shop, he sells it - knowing that the value will go down the drain. So who does he sell it to? His self proclaimed, pompeous rival: O'Aka. You could call that mean, but it is just the same as selling stocks because you know they will crash. With the goals of energy and weapons in mind, he stumbles upon Vegnagun - the ultimative weapon which draws energy from the farplane. If he could use it, he could protect a new home easily. Even if he could just figure out how to harvest that energy, he would be one big step ahead. While this illusion is abjured after Vegnaguns end, Shinra continues his research and Rin brings in the money. Eventually, Rins business network and Shinras research give birth to the Shinra corporation. As machina lose their stigma, Shinra can bring the technology and infrastructure to the table to dominate the market. Due to Rins focus on energy, this is Shinras strongest market. Due to his focus on military, Shinra has the means to protect their production themselves. Eventually, even the big ambition of Mako energy comes true. If Shinra didn't control the world earlier, this elevated them to that position. Was Midgar the home Rin hoped for? I don't think so. The progress he helped to create just went a way nobody wanted.

[@smartfrenandromax6651]

Alex Bermann | Rin is a very manipulative character. Rin benefits from someone's deeds, whether that is good or bad for them. That being said, being manipulative is actually a quite neutral feature.

[@Ceeckoful]

Hold on if Shinra's ancestors left via space travel to FF7's planet then why the hell are they Funding the first rocket into out of space with Cid? wouldn't this of been already done? sounds like major plot holes.

[@FinalFantasyPeasant]

Is what I thought. I expect Nojima didn't think all that hard and created a plothole. Unless the implication is that the ones who arrived were the Cetra. Being as they travelled from planet to planet and also spacetravelled. So perhaps Shinra's ancestors were those and the ones who 'abandoned their duty' to stay on Gaia.

[@Ceeckoful]

Final Fantasy Peasant So they spaced travelled in a magical sense? because i dont see how they would of kept the understand of mako but not space travel, maybe there is room to say they were left and had no space ships but somehow kept the understanding on how to use Mako. I originally thought spira was early Gaia as in the same planet, but even that was a massive stretch.

[@Ceeckoful]

Final Fantasy Peasant Hmm i wonder if they will touch on this in the remake, they did say stuff will change from the original.

[@FinalFantasyPeasant]

Well if indeed they were Cetra then they carried the same gifts/powers of being connected to the planet. That opens up quite a few possibilities that the Cetra's space travel could more be planet/comet based, lifestream based or 'magical' in some way. Powers that they lost once they abandoned there duty to the planet. It all seems pretty loose but then again the logic of the multiverse in final fantasy is pretty liberal and wild at best. Would certainly think the knowledge of mako extraction would have been lost over 1,000+ years but the ultimania seems to think otherwise so :P

[@Ceeckoful]

Final Fantasy Peasant Interesting save, one must have to give a lot of leeway to make it work but it's possible, but wouldn't Shrina himself have some powers etc? unless hes a mix of those natives from Gaia? I really want to see how they are going to expand on this in the remake.

[@TheDeadGunslinger]

"even if the morrow is barren of promise. nothing shall forstall my return" ~ Yu Yevon (yea he didn't say that, but you'd believe it, wouldn't you? considering Sin is always reborn..)

[@xSaraxMxNeffx]

enh, ardyn didn't get caught so much as literally give himself away. He thoroughly enjoyed rubbing it in his opponents faces as well; where as rin enjoyed knowing no one had any fucking idea.

[@Zinic_]

Interesting theory. I also felt uneasy around him when I first played the game. So, do you think FF X-3 will have to come out to "reveal" Rin's true intentions?

[@tatfr0guy]

Rin=Jenova

[@philiptucker6119]

Mike Montoro Rinova

[@smartfrenandromax6651]

Mike Montoro | Rin → Rinoa Heartilly.

[@SweetChinMusic115]

Wow, you can even tie this theory into the audio drama where the farplane has gotten out of control. Rin's research has made it unstable enough that people can wish their deceased loved ones back to life. It's even possible that Rin wished Sin to come back, so people would further fund his research to escape Spira and/or defeat Sin.

[@MrApocalypse238]

I'm SO glad I found this video...thank you so much!!

[@mreclectic700]

Damnit Rin, you minx 😂 all these years and I'm finding out this...you're good 👍 Credit to Square 👏

[@monfire]

FFVII: life stream = mako, magic = materia = concentrated mako. FFX: everyone can use magic, no life stream, attempts at making mako fail = everyone in FFX has the life stream within them. Conclusion FFX = Ancients because they did not need materia to cast magic and had such a close connection with the life stream because they were already one with the lifestream

[@vinceunknown1935]

So Aeriths Mother was from Spira and Aerith is a Spiran decendant

[@aisadal2521]

This video made me subscribe; I really loved your indepth research into this, especially into sources that people usually wouldn't go into Keep up the great work!

[@zaganim3813]

Amazing, i get shivers thinking about the awesome depth of these games and this video just added yet another dimension to that, Kudos! you have earned a subscriber xD

[@sqfn08]

I never liked Rin, he always had that vibe with me, I always knew he was on an agenda but with every final fantasy there's so much to so little time, things like that you just don't have time for but I'm glad we got the bottom of this. Thanks Pez

[@spiritoetilico]

finally someone understood, rin is the only Al Bhed who is NOT willing to share, he is greedy, and the only way to accomplish his plan is to control everything. all Al Bhed have the plan to rebuild he is the only one who has "OTHER PLANS" as HE SAID

[@Random_Chiroptera]

I guess you never paid much attention to the canon in-game history. Back when Zanarkand was still standing, thete *were* in a war against Yevon, and losing against Yevon's vastly superior machina army. But, Zanarkand had it's own trump card in Yunalesca. The point is though, Yevon had always used Machina.

[@aprilbenilie]

This is good! haha! and the "underdog's secret" really got me there! HAHAHAHA XD

[@kazuyachoo9848]

Question: Auron died when he's in his early or mid 20's. He then became an unsent to watch over Tidus in dream Zanarkand. So how did get old if he is an unsent ?

[@davidserback4699]

Kazuya Choo Hmmmmmm

[@Bawks_FEET]

Kazuya Choo I don't think becoming an unsent keeps you from aging or being hungry or having to take a piss. I mean just look at tidus he was just a dream but he was pretty much a regular joe

[@666melodeath666]

Kazuya Choo I believe it said somewhere that Auron changes his appearance with magic I mean if Seymour can change into ridiculous creatures wrinkles and grey hair aint that farfetched

[@MrPollotosto]

Undead can manipulate Pyreflies to change their appearance, so he probably just change himself every now and then to not lift any suspicion

[@hyldrklein451]

Kazuya Choo By now we all know that Auron is an unsent and that he does look like he aged. But then there's also the case of Mika, the old unsent meister(???) whom we have no idea how long he has been dead. And I remember someone in the game mention that he's been in the position for many generations. So you could say that its a choice for the unsent if they want to look old af or look the same way as they did 100 years ago. And mind you, there's also yunalesca who's like... a thousand years old? And she still looked like a hot momma.

[@NinjaxShadowXx]

Would be cool if in X-3 they made Rin do research or something that led to the creation or origin of Jenova.

[@CornBreadtm1]

He could be Jenova. They point out in FF7 that Jenova came to the Cetra and would kill them and assume the appearance of the dead and turn them into monsters. Looking like the dead is what the unsent do and isn't native to Gaia. So if Rin was able to harvest the farplane energies and became or created Jenova then the planet would die and force the people living on it to leave. If the Spirans really got on ships and went to Gaia then Jenova likely came with them since Mako didn't start to get openly harvested till after the Cetra (Likely Spirans) got wiped out and only the humans (who looked like Cetra) remained. Cetra likely made the materia from Mako trying to replicated dress spheres and used them to stop Jenova without the weapons. So if Jenova is a being infused with farplane energy then it would make sense that those effected by it would assume the appearance of the dead or turn into monsters. The Weapons were likely created by the Cetra (Spirans) as Machina that could stop Jenova on Spira and took them with them to Gaia when they failed.

[@ibetterbeinstreetsofrage4s328]

Um is X-3 an actual thing

[@RainbowDashShadesOfApproval]

Sniper Fodder Jetson no... It's not

[@ibetterbeinstreetsofrage4s328]

Rainbow Dash Shades of Approval thank god

[@RainbowDashShadesOfApproval]

Sniper Fodder Jetson if you're talking about the novel, then it does exist, but I'm pretending it doesn't.

[@suzannekraft3125]

I just love this post! I never doubted, not once that the Shinra on the ship was one of the ancestors of the company that is named after him in FF7. But I was always suspicious of where and why Yevon got so much machina-and that almost all of it was entirely combat oriented. In other words the machina in the temple's controls and the individual obstacles therin. I always thought it was simply passed down from the war of 1000 years ago, and that Yevon simply hid them from everyone that wasn't supposed to control or fight beside them in battle. And I also always wondered why Rin popped up in the ship just in time to announce that there were monsters and the guado on the ship. I also found it curious how the Guado were able to find Home in the first place. I never trusted Rin either. Since Rin's stores sold curatives and weapons, it would also be in his best interests to have a lot of fighting going on. And he seemed to enjoy the chaos that terrified everyone else that was going on around him. Everyone else was crushed at the defeat of the joint army. But he didn't seem bothered or even remotely curious about anything else that happened in the game either. And why would someone who never gets cornered into battle could be so calm on the ship unless he was let them in the ship in the first place. I never liked the set up of the combat system or the available characters in the party from the sequel, so I have never bothered to finish it. But from what I saw, Rin seemed to be at the center of a lot of events and had great knowledge of lots things that a simple weapons supplying businessman probably wouldn't be terribly curious about.

[@comog]

4 years later and this still makes sense

[@GenJotsu]

*Adjusts tin foil cap "Go on."

[@UltiEd]

Rin might've created FF XV: A New Empire

[@ToraFamiliar]

OMG thank you for all the research you did and explanation

[@treewall16]

About time for some good theories! It's been to long

[@chrisbrobst9310]

wasn't it Khimari that found the dress sphere and gave it to Yuna because it had that dude that looked like Titus on it.. Shinra deciphered the sphere and all.of it's contents..

[@deathseekergibbsy]

Chris Brobst Yes

[@cathie6846]

Unless Rin recognised Khimari and left it for him to find.

[@chrisbrobst9310]

+Cathie Leyy yeah, but that wasn't implied.. all the game said was that Khimari found the sphere in the Gagazet mountains due to the fact that the fog was dispersing and more of the mountains was becoming visible, and he gave it to Yuna.. but this guy was insinuating that Rin himself gave the sphere to Shinra and that's how it came to be in their possession..

[@chrisbrobst9310]

a lot of this theory does make some sense tho.. although it could do better to fill in a few rough patches and reevaluate some of the facts..

[@LeonA0]

Rin giving the sphere is just a wild guess. Game says Kimarhi FOUND the dressphere, not that he had it. Nor was given to him.

[@NatsuDragn33I]

I like this. I'll roll with it.

[@WindowtotheSoul]

Watching this off the back of today's stream :)

[@mtownboi4ya]

u got a new sub. I never drew Rin into this, but a damn good theory

[@OmicronX-1999]

Yeah, no. You can't level the claim that Shinra and Rin are responsible for what their ancestors did with their research thousands of years later. That's like saying Nikola Tesla is responsible for everything the electric power industry does just because his research helped create the foundations for it. Only way you could lay the blame on them is if they were somehow still alive after all that time and controlling the Shinra company from the shadows. And nothing you say in this video proves that Rin is anything more sinister than a businessman and researcher who puts profits and results first. Sure, he's sometimes pretty ruthless and always makes sure he comes out richer than everybody he deals with, but he's an entrepreneur. That's kind of what they do. He might be an asshole by some people's standards, but he's a long way from being 'the biggest villain in X, X-2 and VII' as you claim. As for the Machina on the Highroad, sure, testing out new upgraded Machina and covering it up is dodgy as hell, but he's trying to create an army of Machina the Al Bhed can use to defend themselves in case anyone tries to, you know, blow up their home again, as well as advance the level of technology for the entire world. You could argue that despite the shifty things he was doing, he was doing it for reasons that some would say were justifiable. Fuck, our own governments do worse things all the time. And anyway, he isn't the only one doing research into hostile Machina. Gippal was doing it too. What do you think that constantly adapting superboss that lived in his base was? People are gonna do research into the military applications of any technology. That's just how it goes. Also, Yevon aren't ass-backwards religious bumblefucks. The reason they have Machina is because they hoarded it all to themselves and told everyone else that Machina are evil. They always had advanced technology in their possession. Hell, Yunalesca still lives in the ruins of Zanarkand, they probably got it all from there. Since it's all the same basic technology, the Al Bhed are just used to working with the same machines, which is why Rikku is able to operate the control panels. Rin wasn't secretly selling Machina to Yevon on the sly at all. Yevon just wanted to keep everyone else as backward primitives conditioned to believe their bullshit teachings so that they would be easy to control. Kinda like our real world religions come to think of it. You're literally pulling the *"OMG, HE WAS RESEARCHING VEGNAGUN ALL THIS TIME!!!!"* accusation out of your ass. Nothing in either the games or the guidebooks says he was doing this, it's just baseless supposition. Shinra researched Vegnagun *after* the Gullwings defeated it, not before. That you claim it as conclusive proof of Rin being Al Bhed Hitler despite never presenting actual canonical evidence for this is quite absurd. So basically, most of the evidence that Rin must be soul-shatteringly evil is circumstantial and unproven, and the stuff that it's clear he is actually doing, while some of it is bad for sure, isn't up there with what Yevon or Seymour or Shuyin were up to. I didn't buy this for a second, and I still don't. Just because you can see a pattern doesn't mean it's there. Now, Squall is Dead? That's a plausible theory.

[@smartfrenandromax6651]

Omicron9999 | Final Fantasy VIII is a Dream or an alternate timeline. What Squall did is just skipping from one Dream/Timeline to another.

[@chriswakley2362]

@Omicron9999 ...fuck you guy..

[@minaly22]

I think all of the theories mentioned here are correct. But I still have one question, if Rin was an unsent, then how many years did he spend as an unsent? We know that Auron became an unsent when Yuna was a young girl, and existed for probably a decade. We know Yunalessca and her husband have been around for at least one Millennia, then we also have the old guy that likes history who came from Zanarkand. There is also Belgemine who probably has been an unsent for a few centuries (she also sent an "Ark" to outer space two hundred years ago before the events of FF10, so that a few people can escape from Sin and survive) There is also Maester Mika, who's age on the ultimania was 99, who possibly became an unsent from anywhere between 60 to 90 years old. If Rin was the insider guy, then that means that Rin is familiar enough with Mika that he had access to deep Yevon secrets. I'm not sure whether if the al bhed existed as a race in the time of Zanarkand, since people who are branded as al bhed are ones who persist to use and research machina against the teachings of yevons (and have swirly green eyes). But if the al behd didn't come around until after Sin, then that means Rin could be an unsent ranging from 10 years to a few centuries (Long before Auron, but not long enough to reach Belgemine or Yunalesca). Anyways, thing is, 1. if the al bhed existed as a race in the times of Zanarkand, and Rin has been around for that long, then Rin would be a villain that is close to Yu Yevon's level. However it is unlikely for someone like Rin to be inactive for so long, to only 'recently' open up traveling companies around Spira. And that would also throw in the question of 'how many years have the yevonites been using machina in secret', because if Rin was a millennium unsent, he would have been providing Bevelle with machina and technology for the same amount of years. He could have been a guy that was in a high position back in the old days of Bevelle and at the start of the religion, suggested that machina be used for the greater good and stuff. If this theory proves true, then "Rin the merchant who opened up traveling agencies" is most likely one of his many false identities. This means that he knew about Vegnagun and privy to Yevon secrets from the VERY start (millenniums ago), but this is highly unlikely since Rin didn't take notice of Vegnagun until around the time of FF10 and X-2. Secondly, Rin is not a super old unsent, but still old enough to be very dangerous. He has very far reaching connections that only a lot of time could achieve, and depending on how many years he has been around, would also have many different identities. I wonder how Belgemine came across the Ark two hundred years ago? Did one of Rin's previous identities provide the knowledge and resources to create the Ark when Yevonites preached that machina should not be used? If that's a yes, then Rin is older than Belgemine (She has traveled through the Mi'hen high road for several centuries, testing summoners back and forth all the way to the Calm lands, so if she was familiar with "Rin the man who founded the traveling agency" then she would have taken notice that something was amiss with this guy since the traveling agencies have been around for way too long).

[@eaiiirosa]

GUUUUUUUURLLLLLLL

[@minaly22]

Depends. Auron became an unsent by choice and due to lingering will and wishing to expose the falsities of Yunalesca and the religion of Yevon, as well as see Yuna defeat Sin. Tidus wasn't even born as a fleshed human. He was born in the dreamscape Zanarkand comprised fully of magic, memory, and pyreflies, maintained by the Fayth. He only disappeared because once Sin/Yu Yevon was defeated and all Aeons no longer need to exist to fight Sin, the dreamscape Zanarkand ceases to exist as the Fayth let go of the dream, and all things associated with it. So technically he isn't an unsent; perhaps an unborn...? Neither fact would affect whether if Rin was an unsent or not.

[@TheEndwalker]

Huh, interesting... That's why I love your channel, mate.

[@sisilessthan3]

doesnt yuna beat shinra in sphere break if u do it right?

[@warangelcloud]

FFX-3 will show Rin as a main villain. FFX has the best Final Fantasy story. So many plot twist. FF7 only plot twist was that Cloud had a messed up Identity crisis.

[@vinceunknown1935]

Would be funny if Seymour knew about Rin as well, or maybe Seymour works for him or Rin works for him

[@Kartissa]

One small point: 'How do the Yevonites maintain their technology?" Bevelle was the faction which used machina weapons in the war which destroyed Zanarkand. They've probably still got the blueprints stored away somewhere, along with maintenance and repair instructions. They just need to teach some of the priests and soldiers how to do it. There's no need for any Al Bhed 'traitors' to help them. (Also, the Bevelle machines don't resemble the Al Bhed machina in any way. They are different classes of enemy in both games. For example, Rikku can't pull the Yevonite mechs apart with the Steal command)

[@FinalFantasyPeasant]

but the question still remains. How is Rin, a hated Albhed. Allowed to have a business empire, stores in yevon temples and such free pass over spira. Yevoners control the world, it's gotta be the case that Rin has had to take steps to get on their goodside to be allowed to flourish in the open where the rest of the albhed hide in a desert city

[@skotttownzend5170]

Final Fantasy Peasant lol you're thinking too small my good friend if you connect the dot of Rin being unsent and the dot that he is the reason Sin became due to his experiments with bad machina then you get, Rin Created Yevon and the Yevonites to benefit from (the spiral of death) deaths of countless people to fuel.... do I have to say more?

[@Kartissa]

He doesn't use forbidden machina in his stores, which is the main reason that the Al Bhed are hated. If he promises never to break the teachings, and to assist pilgrims to the temples, then the church has no good reason to deny him. It's not like *they* provide rooms and supplies for Summoners on pilgrimage, despite the profits that would bring.

[@skotttownzend5170]

Kartissa good point but Rin is cunning and probably created the al bhed as a cover to run separate operations and to keep his identity secret. It's likely he controlled both factions from within and corrupted both and using both at will for his own gain.

[@an_impasse]

I played FFX (and FFX-2 a few times,) so many times over and never suspected him of any evil, lol. MY LIFE IS A LIE. Great theory, by the way. :D

[@marystone860]

You are not crazy at all, it all makes perfect sense! First off, you can imagine the horror that would have transpired if Shinra and Rin's research in using Vegnagun actually succeeded! I can imagine in my mind, Tidus THROTTLING Rin for all the bulls%#@ he indirectly and directly caused, getting the love of his life, Yuna, damn near KILLED by Vegnagun! Tidus just beating the s%#@ out of Rin would have been great to see! Paine:' Tidus, if you need "knocking a asshole's head off pointers", you can come to me! Tidus to Shinra:' And YOU!' pointing straight at him, ' I'm not going to kick a kid like a blitzball, BUT, I'm sure I can think of something!' Shinra:' OH S%#@!' Almost everyone, shocked or horrified, but Paine, completely approving, and giving two thumbs up to the whole thing! To quote the meme:' TIDUS NO!" Paine:' TIDUS YES!'

[@m2000x]

Rin killed Aerith

[@smartfrenandromax6651]

msk97x | Rin's vest reminded me of Aerith's. What if later on Rin got reincarnated as Aerith?

[@vinceunknown1935]

@@smartfrenandromax6651 Or is her Father

[@redzerg]

Best Game ever ❤

[@Todo-1996]

I always thought that FFX was the best out of the series. The story, the characters and the setting all just really fit so well with each other.

[@agipson101]

the last part pez isn't a flaw because...auron died when he was in his 20s but in the game he look like a middle age man..but he been dead for ten years...soo couldn't this mean that the unsent can age..or at least change their appearance since they are basically pyreflies

[@ultris07]

Honestly I still don't see the connection between X and VII

[@smartfrenandromax6651]

ultris07 | See the Flashback scene in Nibelheim's Shinra Mansion. Cloud & co are Cetras/Settlers who migrated to the Planet.

[@Spartan-ir4qd]

*spin foil hat on & realizes no matter what, if you search youll find/make the reasons fit anything youre trying to research/incriminate* good video & theory but, i think youve made me want to retire my spinfoil hat with this. just throwing it out their... jenova is just as sinspawn??? sephiroth is just a sinspawn????? seems like a cheap way to tie in universes by squenix. simply put dissidia is the real/main universe while the numbered FF series (and most everything else) are just side games.

[@wilrip78]

I've played through this game so many times it would make you cry.. and just seeing this title had me sold. Lol

[@raythompson4831]

didn't it say in the x2 cinematic that bridges the gap between the two that the sphere that shows "tidus" was found in gagzet by kimahri? the only sphere that shows "him" is the songstress sphere

[@taryntorres1369]

100% believe. Also explains Trump administration.

[@CJC15]

Oh man, that's original. Keep crying, Killary supporter.

[@Caffrey987]

To be honest, he either didn't vote or he isn't even American.

[@smartfrenandromax6651]

Taryn Torres | You need to put the Xenogears equation for the Trump Administration. Miang got the task to rebuild Deus back to operational status again, even if it takes 10000 years. What is the Trump Administration's motto? "Make America Great Again"? #MakeAmericaGreatAgain #MAGA #AmericaGreat What if there is an ancient country named "America Great"? And their job along with the Reagan Administration is to rebuild it. See also SDI, Star Wars, Space Force, SDF, and so on… Notice also in Xenogears, Miang/Myahle in her various incarnations, regulary accompanied in public, the official leaders, while she secretly manipulate all countries to rebuild Deus. Michelle? Melania? Miang? That being said, "America" in Arabic is "Amarika", meaning "Your Command". "By Your Command." - Cylon Trooper "Buy American." - Donald John Trump #DonaldTrump is a #ClosetMuslim

[@cXtotheXj]

I refuse the theory VII and X are connected.

[@andyjaycee]

It's been confirmed by one of the makers or whoever though?..

[@mrabs1337]

MarkisTG it's literally just explained in this video how they're connected lol

[@EternalSilverDragon]

The theory is that Shinra's descendant led a mission through space to colonize another planet - they landed on Gaia. But it's not exactly confirmed. It was only a joke that some people took seriously for some reason (lost in translation perhaps).

[@smartfrenandromax6651]

cXtotheXj | In Final Fantasy VII, based on records in Nibelheim's Shinra Mansion; Cloud & co are Settlers/Cetra's descendants, who immigrated to the Planet. The original plan was for them to be Nomadic; moved in, settled, and then moved on. But Cloud's ancestors rebelled against the plan and decided to stay, permanently.

[@smartfrenandromax6651]

EternalSilverDragon | It's because Final Fantasy VII, Xenogears, Macross, and My Little Pony: Friendship is Magic are unofficially connected to each other.

[@dongoobs6417]

and now we have an idea for what ffx-3 would be like.

[@LongLiveLedZeppelin]

Hey Pez. I just wanna say that I very much enjoy all of the videos you make on ffx and ffx2 and all of the would-be / could-be ffx3 possibilities, and of course the ffx2.5 novella and the "will" audio. And you know what's funny, when I first played this game back in 2002, I always hated Rin. He just always gave me very dodgey vibes. And now I find this video, and you make such great arguments for these possibilities. This is insane! And your videos on the ffx2.5 novella and the audio drama have helped me understand a few very important things. You see, I heard the audio drama before I ever knew there was any type of other continuation of the ffx and X2 story. And when I first heard it, without the knowledge from the novella, It damaged my soul!!! I was devistated.... But after watching your videos and learning the Information from the novella, I understand the audio drama much more, and I actually wouldn't mind if they made a ffx3 following that storyline. Especially with this new information on Shinra and Rin. Although I could definitely do without it. Anyway man, thanks so much for your time and effort. It is very much appreciated!

[@codencecoudini]

Nobody knew this because nobody cares about x-2... at all.

[@kylasim189]

OOOOHHH WOW love this one Final Fantasy Peasant! I Angela (as this account is also used by my daughter) am old enough to have starting playing FF on the original NES and fell in love as it where lol. I continued to play each installment as the came out and have always looked to see if there where threads of concepts that linked each world/game to others. So Kudoos to you for this. But not sure if you have done this yet but was wondering what your opinion/theory would be on The Ending of Dirge of Cerberus where we see Genesis come for Weiss

[@wuzi7049]

it made me actually think of vein or cid from XII where they were just trying to give humans more power and control of their lives. while simultaneously uniting them, even at the expense of being the villains. well cid was in it more because it interested him, but that still reminds me of vein and cids relationship because of shinra

[@raven_izunia]

Lol love your theory vids this one is brilliant

[@dervakommtvonhinten517]

that opening melody gives me so much melancholy...

[@kaliduncanel3356]

It definitely makes sense if he has a hand in the creation of omega weapon

[@ONealMania]

This is a great theory. I have always been suspicious of Rin since FFX for the reasons that you mentioned. As well as in FFX2 with the Highroad. Thanks for the video. Makes me feel like I'm not crazy lol. But how awesome would it be if Rin and Shinra were the villains in FFX3. This actually brings everything full circle. Plus adding Mako in the mix...... smells like a great game if done right!

[@williamkwok1386]

how did you get the lalafel to do that @0:41 ? (The running with arms up)