Why Runescape 3 Gear Progression Feels So Weird

[@JoFo-cl6ro]

I have a 4-month old ironman account and, after playing again from scratch, it's pretty easy to see why Necro is better, and how to address this. The reason is because necromancy gear is unlocked through skills, not combat. For example, to upgrade magic (on iron), you get Lunar armor from a quest, work your way to sunspear, then you either kill ganodermic creatures for tank gear or krill for power, then helwyr for the cywirs and Seren core armor. Necromancy, however, is gated behind skilling. In order to get all of your gear, you have to make it. You need smithing for the weapons, and crafting (the real ironman hurdle) for the armor. You might not need to spend a ton of time doing bosses, but you do need to spend a ton of time levelling up. I wasn't able to get T-80 armor until the same time I unlocked Prif (since both need 75 crafting). Necro gear progression feels easy on established accounts because people already have the levels to make the gear. This brings me to the glaring issue with the other styles: you can't make powerful gear. Necro gear can be augmented from level 70, and nothing else comes close. If the other styles had augmentable gear that could be made through skilling from level 70 onwards, it would really bridge the gap between the styles.

[@romanes_eunt_domus]

You still have to do bossing for the higher tiers. Granted, the bosses are fairly ez even for skillers, except the t90

[@miniqbein6141]

adding skilling gear at lower levels would be huge for accessibility, current skilling gear is horrendously outdated (gano at 98 crafting and 96 slayer)

[@KaidenXIII]

Necro is also a better introduction for players like myself (I started first time months after necro hit). You actually do questing and having skills to get for your gear, as you said. Also the selfheal of the ghost was kind of helpful early on for some farming, which you dont have access to when you are a new player on other combat styles (I think? - only thing comes to my mind is scrimshaws and soulsplit, which is highlvl at that moment). Maybe they should give out a lesser variant of soulsplit early on, so you can actually enjoy some of the other styles as much as necro.

[@JoFo-cl6ro]

@@KaidenXIII The other styles use the vampirism aura. It's a pretty early unlock from War's Retreat. It makes training much easier because you eat far less food, making fewer bank runs. That being said, Necro can also use vamp aura, but I find it more effective to use penance aura and pray deflect melee or whatever I'm fighting.

[@TetrisChemist]

I don't think augmentable gear is the issue, I think the issue is that we desperately, desperately need a crafting and fletching and even runecrafting(for tying into making mage gear) overhaul. All the other styles aside from melee are still stuck in the OSRS problem of needing to be maxed to make piss weak gear since combat and def tiers changed.

[@playnwinplayer]

I think RS3 (and honestly most MMOs) has always struggled to give a meaningful experience to both no-lifes and casuals. I think historically RS3 has focused on the more dedicated group, with most of the bosses expecting you to be there for dozens of hours to get a drop. But for a casual PvMer, that's a crazy barrier of entry. If RS3 isn't your only game, that could be weeks grinding a single boss for that one item. But Necromancy gives an option to the casual crowd to still be able to experience that content. It gets you to a T90 tank gear set up which is fairly viable, with a reasonable barrier to T90 Power gear. Does it get to the same level as other tiers much quicker and easier? Sure. But does it allow players new to PvM or casual PvMers to enjoy new content releases like Sanctum of Rebirth? Definitely. Just from personal experience, I was stuck in GWD2 when Necro released, and since then I've been able to do a ton more bosses. Part of that is definitely the defense/sustain Necro gives, but it's also made me better as a PvMer. I could probably take my Melee or Ranged and go do harder content than I used to, but I've always really liked the build stacks/spend stacks MMO styles, so I'll probably stick with Necro.

[@helpsloan]

i don't think necro really is problematic where its at, i think it really just highlights the glaring flaw with the other category's progression being so exponential and weighted towards the top end of progression, compared to necros dps upgrades which are more evenly spread throughout the skill

[@musclesdolphin3225]

Totally agree

[@wonder_9]

Necro takes what used to make each style unique and put it all in one style. It completely diluted combat across the game. 1000% it put this game into an awkward state and to say the problem was OTHER styles is delusional. There were and are still problems with the other styles, but necro was not the right move. It killed PvM way more than a lot of current players are willing to admit

[@pucie_boi]

That's because you like easy mode. I like runescape because it was hard and punishing and took a lot of effort to get to the top, especially on ironman, which is the only mode I play. But update after update it just gets easier and easier

[@superiortorta4208]

A solution I've been thinking that could work, atleast for melee is making the mining and smithing armours and weapons augmentable, Orikalkum t60 -Primal T90, but in order to make them augmentable, it would require you to have the necessary smithing level to do so and it becomes untradeable. Orikalkum augmentable at level 60 smithing Necronium 70 smithing Banite 80 smithing Elder Rune 90 smithing Primal 100 smithing I think they already have a solution available in front of them, but they are so adamant on only making necro progression good while the others rot away

[@mwithz]

I do agree partially. Rasial is definitely easier than its counterparts of where you get T95s much more easier for its style but the problem from what I've seen is that you need to unlock a lot of stuff to keep up the upkeep if your chasing the stuff there if your an Ironman. For maxed main folks who have access to a lot more resources, its significantly easier since you have all the Overloads, buyables that can take on the boss. (Seen way too many Ironmans who try to take this on but get wiped by Rasial). I disagree that its not Item progression but rather ability progression for the other styles. So many amazing abilities for the original combat triangle are all unlocked at the endgame rather than the mid game. Its like a Parabola where that only endgame PvE is so good for the other styles. They need some of the bigger ability unlocks at a lower level since this would match that mid game progression that Necromancy has that the other styles don't. There are some gear items that are definitely in a weird spot but its the abilities that really need to be looked at, especially if people were to actually utilize manual instead of revolution always since right now the mid game lets everything be revo barred since most casuals dont even know how abilities work and just copy other folks.

[@shinyphat3105]

I think the biggest problem is they literally can't add another boss to break up Necro since they already added it all to 1 boss. Until they release tier 100 or 110 necro gear and stuff, you get the ease of fighting a boss that's fun to fight and relatively easy to grind (~30kph) compared to (like you mentioned) a different boss for every single tier upgrade. I came back to RS3 partly because I heard necro just made pvm so much easier to get into. When I played through I thought the style was so bad until I realized you don't have to do anything for the gear upgrades, you just level the skill and your armour levels up with you... If they were to fix it, they need to stop that mechanic at tier 60 or 70 and make you fight different bosses to get drops from them to get t80/t90 and t95. Coming from OSRS (was 2200+ total ironman, played OSRS since release, played iron since first week it came out as well) it feels so much better over there. You have to fight all the bosses because you use the previous tier to upgrade into the higher tier after getting an add-on piece. You need bandos to make torva; arma to make masori; ect. They have niche weapons and armours that you use at specific fights or parts of a raid to slightly speed up times. Everything has a purpose to getting it. They also have the ability to skip some content if you just don't like it, if you have friends. Don't have a whip on your iron yet? Go with some friends and get carried at ToB to get a lucky rapier or scythe... Weapons are really the only thing you don't break down to make the higher tier, so while most armour you're forced to grind eventually, you can skip some bad content to get the upgrades.

[@pucie_boi]

The way you described ironman progression from osrs is pretty much how it was in rs3 before they released necro. Necro ruined the experience

[@Ramma10]

Love your content man, looking forward to the next video!

[@RagnarUchiha]

If only they didn't take years and years to fix their shit.. You're right, it isn't in a good place. Hearing you is like listening to myself talk. The amount of bills you have to pay for upgrades or bosses you need to farm, then have 3x the APM to do somewhat comparable dmg to necro is insanity. No person in their right mind would not just necro right now. Maybe in 2028 we can do some other styles again. Berserk taking extra damage is another one of those outdated things that make no sense in 2024. The solution is simple, just let the other styles do 10% more dpm than necro and you're solid. Necro can be the easy intro into pvm while also maintaining the benefit of unlocking the other styles, cause you'll do more dps.

[@anthonylalonde4045]

This is what I’ve been thinking. Best solution

[@originaldahha]

i've always liked the idea that each boss drops an item or essence, that you can add to things, and you have to go through it to get your stuff to that tier. eg you need 100 araxxi essence to upgrade a handful of items to t90, and each kill you get a variable amount of essence depending (ideally depending on how the kill went) . that also would solve dry streak issues

[@dawsonhollman469]

One thing I will say is if we look at the history of combat in rs3 sense eoc release there's always been 1 combat style that has dominated the game. First kalphite king for drygores, then came along ascension from the dungeon and shortly after seismics from vorago and when seismic released it was magic scape all the way until telos released and then again it was magic scape aside from minor spots where sgb was actually good. And then Zamorak released introducing bolg before it was buffed and even then magic still had fsoa ( pre nerf) so needless to say the history has basically always been 1 style dominates

[@miniqbein6141]

i think a reason the other styles hit lower with equivalent gear or have lower accuracy is the level differene between necro and others. Necro t90 weapons are no different from the other weapons, but 21 levels gives an extra 13% accuracy which dramatically affects dps most places. I am a newer player and to be honest gear progression felt weird before necro too, everything is too complex, the crafting and runecrafting/fletching and smithing skills dont seem to matter at all (until necro) theres a fundamental anti-new player setting to alot of the game, its all based around 300 different bosses with different unlocks that makes it hard to know what to do. necro is deffo the best thing that ever happened to pvm in this game, it made it approachable for people without 10+ years of experience

[@aaronw-arrior9974]

I dunno fam i wentfrom couldnt kill qbd in bis. To soloingmost things and getting bis mage almost fully solo on iron in a short time. Just takes a bit of learning and getting rid of excuses. Its a game no reason to have em when its not that bad. Speciallywhenrevo does most of the work for most people

[@miniqbein6141]

@@aaronw-arrior9974 im pretty certain they have stated necro has been super beneficial for player interaction with pvm. i understand what you mean but its clear to me engaging the community and newer players in the game is more important than keeping some archaic gearing method or two.

[@aaronw-arrior9974]

@miniqbein6141 they also said they had to make a skill tree cause players are too ignorant to read ability descriptions. Necro gearing is fine. Old gearing is fine. Necro being so easy and nobody using any time to better the way they play. Instead opting to revo the majority of everything they do making it an idle game. Just feels bad for the game as a whole. For example went back to ffxiv after a time. My fav class what used to be a dot build with are spread. Became a dps laser with a rotation very similar to necromancy and took any and all engagement from the boss. And now the director has admitted they have to dial back the crazy casualnes of what end game should be. And make some actual challenges. Necro is like that. On release it completely changed the game and difficulty of everything went down by a ton. And it wasn't even that hard to begin with. Just don't stand in thing that hurts you. Heal when you're low. And always be casting. It's a player issue more so than a combat issue. It's happening in a lot of the games. At least runescape gives us dps trackers tho. Ffxiv bans it. No getting better for you with ease lol

[@FroggieGames]

Necro doesn't do more damage at t90 because its got better accuracy. The way its designed draws power from the abilities and conjures rather than specs/passives so its able to achieve that 'next level' of damage without relying on anything other than a zuk cape. T90 necro is somewhat comparable to other styles t95s bc it has access to everything it needs. Magic, for example, draws most of its power from the fsoa spec and without it, you're still stuck in the pre-t95 era of damage.

[@corruptiblegaming2138]

Remember T90 necro armour has death mark which is basically 30k damage right there. Then you have the Death Guard T90 weapon spec which can deal up to 30k as well. The other styles don't have that purely from the T90 weapons without using an EOF with a spec.

[@itsyaboidragon]

The first fix would be moving all other styles to 120 and adjusting base power from there. Next would be continuity with weapon design at level t95. Passives and specs or just one or the other. Figure it out and stick to it. The next step I would look at is probably trying to re-tier and classify gear. But too much dev time so GG.

[@johnbalkin8223]

Necromancy is a 6th Age skill and the 6th Age is know for removing all sense of progression. If you play in Age order, Nerco progression feels very much earned as you start the combat style in the endgame.

[@jlayman89]

I think the "good" solution is to roll with necro being easy to progress, and it gives you the ability to progress the others. Long read warning! Right now, imo, the real issue is that there's not a meaningful reason to progress in the other styles. If necromancy is going to remain as easy to get into and safe as it is, it needs to be behind the other styles in damage for the average player. This needs to be the case for the average player, not the upper 5% like it is currently. This will take some retuning of several things in both necromancy and the other 3. Taking myself as an example, I don't know where I stand as far average or above, but I'd like to think that given what I've done, I'm above average. Maybe in that upper 30-20%. It's hard to say for sure. I can not get more damage out of magic than I can with necromancy, and I have bis gear besides the sliske armor. I'm consistently about 10% slower. Melee, I can do more damage, but it's small, and it's a lot less safe, and it takes considerably more effort and gear. For a true average player, necromancy is just ahead, and this creates the issues. And I want to be clear that I'm perfectly fine with necromancy as a style being as strong if they introduce higher end progression similar to the other styles. If we get a new necromancy off hand that works with necrosis, or armor, and these maybe don't allow conjures, its possible to create a skill expressive form of necromancy thats not as sage and this type of thing can and should compete. When I say necromancy can't be as strong, I'm talking about its current state. I also want to be clear that I think it's good that necromancy has allowed players to get into things they couldn't before. Yeah, it's mitigated the accomplishment and the sense of self progression of the game some, but overall, I think that's heavily outweighed by average players being able to do end-game bossing. Skillful players are much faster and can do much more, so there's still rewards. So if necromancy stays as is, the other styles need bumped up. I'm not sure this is ideal either. The power level of the player is already quite high, and it shows. This channel is a testament to how solak can be solo'd with a decent time and with relative ease using mostly revo. And while I think there's good in that, ramping the other styles up might exacerbate this issue. So, imo, necromancy in its current form and gear set needs to be toned down a hair. My personal idea for this is to fix the ghost and/or death skulls. Both individually carry a ton of power. Ghost: Remove its current command (the free vuln) and give it a form of its release command that's toned back, but lasts some short durationlike 20s. While this command is active, the ghost doesn't heal you. This makes necromancy less safe if you command often, but it could retain its current damage values if you do. Risk vs. Reward. Skulls: If the above isn't enough, make skulls cd inside LD 15s rather than 12. This makes that rot only contain 2, makes it a tad more user friendly, but is just a direct nerf to necro. I'm not a fan of this, but if it's necessary, it's necessary. As for the other styles, what they did at Sanctum, I'm more of a fan of than I'm not. Maybe the weapons are too common, but I can't even say that for sure. If t95s become easier to obtain, average players get into them easier, and this helps. But of course, this would murder the end game progression and reward system, and this is where the 2nd half of Sanctum comes in. Upgrades to those t95s. Sanctum gave t100 stats for end game players to grind for and make a profit from. Imagine if Zammy dropped the bow at like 3x it's current rate, but the passive took 12 stscks rather than 8. Then, at half the rate of a full bow, you got a shard of balance that reduced the passive on bolg to 8. Now, bows are easier to obtain but less powerful. They get to have fun with the fun weapons. End game players still have that chase item to make them stronger to go for. This type of progression I feel benefits both average players and end-game players, and I'd love to see that explored further. Maybe the next boss has a crit shard that gives them +3% crit chance. Etc. Small, but rare improvements. Of course this is all my opinion, and I could be wrong about it being better for the game, but I do feel like the diversity in players lends to thete being no magic bullets, just good overall solutions that won't perfectly satisfy everyone.

[@jlayman89]

To add in what I think it takes to bring other styles up, I think some more base ability damage can help. Greater abilities are similar to the base form and codecies just improve them. Fury to Gfury is a good example. Rico to grico is an example of ability that fundamentally changes when the codex is used and ranged feels very different before and after. Barge is another similar to grico. Maybe Rico has all extra go to the main, then grico adds 4 so so csroming isn't necessary. Barge could alway have the bleed, but maybe greater does the bleed 1 gcd faster or adds the ramping up damage. Etc. Improve the base form of each style through abilities. Also polish them up so they're a bit more intuitive. This of course would also push up the higher end, and that's not exactly ideal, so maybe some toning down of stuff at the higher end is necessary, but we'd need to see where things land before doing 2 levels of hypothetical changes.

[@ducksquidbat8315]

@@jlayman89 Pretty much agree with everything you've said here. I do think part of the issue is that the player has recieved a massive buff in not only stats but also base damage through the hit cap increase. I think bosses need to be scaled upwards in difficulty - a true or hero mode for bosses potentially with new drops would be a nice way for them to reuse content and give players new items to go for - heck, give us consmetic pet or ability overrides as drops that are sellable - i don't care. Pushing abilities closer to their greater counterparts is something i think is completely necessary. raksha will likely need another chase item added to its table. Even t90 tank ranged armour could be thematically accurate given dinohide but im just spitballing.

[@OmniDan26]

trash take

[@jlayman89]

@OmniDan26 At least it's a take with thought put into it. Feel free to disagree with specifics.

[@OmniDan26]

@@jlayman89 and who are you? Why do you think I would care about your yapping like you're relevant?

[@mehmetalemdar1502]

Good point! I definitely like the idea of a similar skill/unlock treeline for the other combat styles. Honestly, necromancy was rushed and there should have been something in between T90 and T95 necro gear. Going from Hermod to Rasial is just stupid. Necro had huge potentional to have more progression weapon and gear wise. T92 necro opportunity wasted.

[@oOLuckyLeopardOo]

They should Band the art of Necromancy for areas on the surface of Gielinor. Make it only usable in deep ungodly dungeons and in areas link Canifis. Also, some Enemies and Gods are immune to the corrupted magic.

[@Verniou]

Necro gearing progression is super simple and straight forward. Once you have t90, you farm rasial for BiS A big issue is drop rates in general is just bad. While I don’t agree how much the new t95 magic came into the game, I think drop rates still need to be reasonable fun grind as not everybody is going to pvm day in and out for drops / logs

[@Jsonwon]

I always wished they would branch out into hybrid territory as the true end game gear and you could have an ability that switched your gear in one click like many cheaters already do anyway. maybe limit it to someway matching sets. Ultimate ability changes combat style withdraws and deposits gear from the bank.

[@WingsofAbsurdity]

When I look at MMO games, it always feels like problems like these are super common. All the old stuff that was once BiS is now irrelevant and can easily be skipped by something new. At the same time, if they don't do that, players might feel overwhelmed by the time it takes to get to that point and will quit because of that. RS3 is no exception to this and even I can't think of a solution. 8 years ago, I would be like getting Nox bow is super hard and now, I can just get something else and skip all the time it took me to get my first nox bow.

[@Mikesthetruth90]

good video. def agree. i think mods are aware that this is a problem and the recent masterwork weapon additions have been an attempt to steer the game back to a more transparent weapon progression. the masterwork 2h isnt terrible and they cant make it way better than zuk sword otherwise people will riot. its probably difficult to find that balance. looking forward to masterwork bow/staff and how it will compare but i think its a start.

[@stephenshifflett-uq2tg]

heck yeah froggie your killing it

[@mygtavideos3955]

Necromancy has screwed the game. Even if they back fill the other combat styles to 120 the damage is done. Nearly all pvm content prior to Necro release is totally irrelevant. The latest DG release with T95 magic weapons and the Shard upgrade has only doubled down on the problems as they are so easily available. I think the combat changes they did with hit chance was good but the other side of it - critical hits and adrenaline refunds is just straight up bad.

[@Rhan_tu]

The only thing that balances out necro is mage can out dps it at the top end, if you have bis. BUT, there is alot less room for error. You can still mess up with necro, and it not matter.

[@AramisLIVE]

I like to think most people playing RS3 are returning players or people who have been playing for a long time, however, I can't ignore how many people I see aimlessly running around on what's clearly a new main account--of that, not many are using necro. It's been addressed before that necro isn't really easy to come across for new players and I have no opinion on whether or not that's good for the game. I do wanna point out that "preference" is totally still a viable factor, in that when I started playing, my accounts were focused around magic simply because I was a kid, and I thought it was cool.

[@cammy0981]

Hey great video and some good points. I really liked the idea of upgrading items and weapons instead of just getting new ones and I definitely think it would be nice to have one place to see all the upgrades of a style. However I disagree with Necro being too easy, I think that early iron man and even mid game iron man mode is such a slog when it comes to gear because as someone with a family and a full-time job which I’m sure is a lot of other people out there there’s no way I can spend hours and hours every day grinding to get one mediocre drop 😂 where is Nick? Crow has allowed me into content that would’ve been locked for literally years. I also think an easy solution maybe not a perfect one but you could make Crow as a less powerful style so it’s more like a gateway style into the more powerful three main styles.

[@AramisLIVE]

He actually cracked one open 🤯

[@MisterDumke]

Considering they had to remove the 100-120 buffs for necromancy, yeah they definitely overloaded necromancy, but personally I have only bothered with PVM/PVE because of necromancy love the idea of a adventurer log type interface like the boss one we have now, but it's purely item focused and not boss focused

[@DK_Son]

To add to that, sustaining the BolG for an ironman is complete torture. Not even magic has to go to such lengths. Melee and Necro only have to do a fraction of the work for their BiS offensives. Jagex needed to bring out a better creation rate for an untradeable version of the dinarrows. 5x rate or something. It also takes FOREVER to get deathspore tips, which only come from mining with Tagga's corehammer, which is a rare drop from Croesus. I mean, what the F are these hurdles for Range? It's like Jagex put 100 hurdles up in Range's lane, and left the other combat styles to have a clean flat race. It's completely unnecessary, and evil. You are bang on. Why would anyone choose anything other than Necro. Massive damage, low input, low burn rate on supplies. You don't even really need to use the runes and the conjures a lot of the time.

[@timothygray7839]

the problem with necromancy is that they made it as strong (if not stronger) as the other 3 styles on release. Every other style has had 20 years of updates slowly adding to its power creep. this is why we see the super fast progression of necromancy and not the other styles. The only way to change it would be to release 4 or 5 new bosses that drop necro gear for tiers 70-90 to build in some progression.

[@greapper1]

spending 2.6 billion for the bow of the last guardian, 1.5 billion for elite dracolith, billion for greater ricochet, etc or just spend1 billion for all tier 95 necro gear

[@abdoali51]

Soulbound lantern is 700m alone. You must be smoking that expensive arbuck

[@alexlove9975]

The tree progression is probably the way to go. Let’s say u had Virtus wand and book. You should have better odds at helwyr to get his wand and orb. Then better odds at vorago to get seismics. And so on and so forth. That could make it meaningful for me to get the helwyr log that I blew past while doing pvm.

[@zornmediagroup43]

this is how i feel about the "accessibility crap" that mod ryan bangs on about constantly. When everything is free, nothing has value. When nothing has value, noone cares. It's just like they don't understand basic economics. When you massively undermine everyone's effort, like with necro or the t95's, it's a kick in the gut.

[@FroggieGames]

I think they went too far with 'accessibility'. Necro came out and they completely flipped on how the game operated... and they still lost tons of players, so clearly it didn't work. There was a middle ground that probably should have been struck to engage players enough to make stuff feel rewarding but not so hard it feels impossible.

[@zornmediagroup43]

​@@FroggieGames I've played since classic and I've witnessed basically every screw up. They don't get things correct is basically my opinion. The 'accessibility' thing bothers me because it's just corpo DEI language. What it really means is give cheat cards to people so they don't have to earn stuff. It's not even so much the implementation of it that bothers me, it's that they're using that kind of language because it implies a lot of BS behaviors behind it. It's incompetence is what it is. Instead of solving the problem, just give free handouts and hope it solves the problem. I'll give an example. Melee suffers from problems about uptime, mobility and DTPS. These are known issues that would take five minutes to fix and instead of resolving any of that, they just invent a new style that completely throws out the need to address the real underlying issues. We know they can choose to fix these problems like with dive/BD and sanctum as well as the telegraphing that should have been the game years ago, but is that the exception or the norm? With bossing there are two issues I see. 1.) Our game exists in a world where people leave the game because clicking buttons is too hard. People just don't want to put in effort and this has always been a problem. 2.) There aren't good tutorials for learning how to boss. And no safe deaths don't fix this. It just means beating your head against a wall enough times until brute force solves the issue. That's the struggle part of things where people put in legitimate effort have a legitimate complaint. What we need is a training mode that walks you through the mechanics 1 by 1 and we need a linear boss progression path that revolves around this concept. Did necromancy fix either of these things? or just put a bandaid of powercreep on the situation and call it good enough.

[@mygtavideos3955]

The need to appeal to "casual" players and try to get more skiller players into pvm and I think to an extent necromancy achieved that. However they just went way, way too far the other way and now it is too late to fix it really. The upcoming nerfs to things like the blood reaver will only upset those "casual" players and will not address the issues.

[@mygtavideos3955]

@@FroggieGames As someone that enjoyed magic the nerfs to FSOA crits being autos & recursive was disappointing but we were told it was because end game magic was 'too powerful'. Then necro arrives and in base form is wildly more powerful. Then they go and nerf adrenaline and base crit chance and give us a T95 set where the effect is useless in group content due to how bleeds operate.... It is like they are trying to ruin everything.

[@ElMofo9]

I dont think necromancy is really the problem but more so a sorta bandaidish fix that made it really easy to see how bad gear progression is with the other styles

[@JaykeoSaurus]

I would say if you have the end game gears like Mage for Example then it's still somewhat better than Necro and chill. Running 3 piece cryptbloom with animate dead with certain bosses is much easier than Necro and the kill time is either faster or about the same but just like 10 seconds or so behind Necro. The roar of awakening to me was a good buff to mage. The FSOA Roar of awakening combo is so fun and does so much damage once you get it going. Been getting really fast kills with it that with the release of Roar I honestly mage more now than Necro for everything. Animate dead just makes things so chill. Yeah there is the Necro tank armor but you are losing a lot of DPS with that set and the 3 piece cryptbloom is still doing a lot of dps with the roar FSOA combo while being chill being tanky.

[@Claytzz]

Believe it or not I used revo ++ and t80 tank necro armour and t80 weps to get to 99 necro for my max cape back then switched back to my ranged gear. Ranged is the only combat skill i can use manually, I can still kill every boss in the game with ranged and have fun, that's all that matters to me. Necro = small pp

[@prismaticrs5633]

hey i agree with most of the points, also i saw alot of legiones guides are outdated or boring to watch, maybe an idea for next video?

[@Da.B]

they should close the gap instead of increasing it. nerf all damage done even if it makes every boss fight take twice as long. 4y-5y ago 200k dpm was a lot gwd3 released and we jumped to 500k+ dpm even after nerfs. We never came back from that but thats the reason low players feel like they can't do stuff or stuff is not worth doing. when I started aod i had 135k dpm after a year I was at the dps cap 195k-210k dpm. 60k dpm is way less off a difference then having an ezscape item do 3x the dmg now. we should be sitting at 350k dpm at max instead of the 600-800k dpm we have now or more

[@TheKhalonN]

Awesome to see how WoW developped

[@corruptiblegaming2138]

For gear progression they need to make a system for crafting gear like Necro up to T90, with something similar to kili's tasks. Abilities are a bigger issue to me and much harder to fix. Currently the vast majority of players will use Necro because it's easy to learn and understand. I can look at a Necro ability as an average player and know EXACTLY what it does and how it interacts with other abilities. The other styles are far too complex for the average player to grasp properly imo. Not only that but you have to unlock the most important abilities from boss encounters. The worst offender being ED2. Imagine being an ironman who has all but greater barge done from ED2. Well have fun doing the entire dungeon to get to the last boss, for a chance at that drop. Well now melee is almost off limits for you. - I like the devs idea of making the basic versions work how the greater one's work currently and then adding a small damage increase to the greater one. Ultimately though I think there are too many abilities, for melee in particular. Complexity should be in the gears passives/special attacks/augmentations, not your basic ability rotations

[@FroggieGames]

Yeah. The recent mining and smithing update was a huge missed opportunity for that. I'd like to see some alternative gear sets that have a set effect for all styles. These useless sets of gear, like the dino armor, are lame and serve no purpose.

[@corruptiblegaming2138]

@@FroggieGames Absolutely. I fear the 110 crafting update will be similarly disappointing in terms of fixing the issues with armour progression, maybe even compound on the problem... My ideal scenario would be the combat devs solely focused on these issues for a year but that's dreaming

[@Lies_and_Slander]

I think Jagex are learning towards easy to earn gear for the foreseeable future. Even though its not BIS melee has a very easy to make t90 gear and sword now. Sanctum and Rasial practically hand out T95s. Abyssal scourge from slayer I don't think there's a correct answer. Maybe we as players have just gotten used to the status qou of drops being rare? Does older content need a drop rate buff? Almost every T92 is in a weird spot by being hard to obtain/ group content. Maybe the shard of genesis should have been used to turn t92 into 102 to keep them semi relevant?

[@bobbbbEE]

I started a new ironman about a year ago and can definitely attest to necromancy skewing my opinion of everything else. I'm 99 necro and the other combat styles feel like a complete slog by comparison and my gear is severely lacking. I've got decent gear for melee since I can just make it with smithing but magic and ranged is still super weak

[@dylans6617]

Necromancy vs the og 3 styles is pretty simple, aside from invention necromancy has no horizontal progression, its all vertical, as where other styles have so much horizontal progression its convoluted. No extra codices to farm/buy aside from lord of bones, which isnt really needed til absolute top end. You dont need to put a sgb into an eof, then get a bolg, change arrows, get grico etc. Its a mess lol

[@wrenbouley3758]

Counter point: Everything else is bad and always has been. Necromancy is good, and it's implementation is the way forward.

[@abdoali51]

I dont think necro needs grindy progression like ranged. Having bis necro will open the doors to progress into unlocking bis every style and trying something new and more powerful

[@Arcadiez]

Issue with RS3 is that you can easily skip tiers, would be better if it actually was progressive, meaning up to t70 you can get it from anywhere(crafting/smelting/slayer/bossing), then t70 for low end boss (Gw1 etc), but to obtain t80 gear, you need t70. Eg you need amardyl armour to make anima core of zammy. same for t90 you need previous tier etc etc. Like lets say melee, why even bother doing KK and get drygores when you can get glacor weapon, a boss you can afk. Like glacor should drop the parts that needed to upgrade drygores to dark shard of drygores. A little like how the defenders work. That's how you keep progression and keep older/lower end bosses related/relative and more importantly a stable economy. Or similar to how they did praesulic essence. Hell, if i was a mod at Jagex i would have even made bosses feel progressive, eg you have to obtain at least 100 kills of each gw1 bosses plus 10 hard mode kills to unlock gw2, then for gw2 you need 250 kills of each and eg 1000% enrage achieved at Telos to unlock gw3. This will lead players to learn mechanics and bosses becomes more difficult the later you come into PvM. Introducing a proper learning curve. Not only for GW, but same for elite dungeon and other bosses. To unlock Legions you need to have killed QBD 250 times. To unlock Raksha, you have to killed Rex Matriarachs 100 times each. (idk about the numbers just examples) For necro they should have stopped at t75-t80. Meaning for high tier bosses the other combat styles would still be the better options, with possible for some hybrid fighting. Would it make necro obsolete? No, it would still be a good combat style for lower end bosses and slayer. But they should have also introduced bosses for the tiers. Not one single boss that drops t95. current state, this is easiest way to obtain(end game) gear. If you're lucky in a few hundred kills you got full t95 set. No struggle, no progression. Just bam straight towards the end of the game. That's not how you do it. The challenge and grind is sort of removed,

[@ducksquidbat8315]

Fuck killing QBD 250 times in general lol... I personally think something similar but instead that hard mode versions of bosses should have uniques.. takes vindicta, the hard mode version is actually difficult with normal mode being afk but the hard mode has literally no reason to kill it... Add something to the gwd2 hard mode (like gwd3) to buff up the normal mode drops. Have them drop an untradable t90 upgrade for the anima armours that doesn't degrade but requires like 15 essence or something... Give them all a decent passive and you've got a reason to push to harder content

[@aaronw-arrior9974]

Gear progression is for sure wierd looking at it again cause of group ironman And built a fullydecked out mage for iron a bit ago. Sliske is nice since tectonic is for me kinda eh since you need a group. Then again was doing trio rago before in gano with cywir /oblit. Also farmed most of kerapac hm in gano/ahrims using cywir and oblit. New sanctum pretty much can let me grab cywir or so and gconc then nm and farmt95 wand/orb and go for fsoa relatovelyeasy. T80 prayer book from sanctum is pretty on par with curses so it eases the need for those early. And can build up that 83 arch and so as well as craft/w.e else for necro gear if you go that route. For pvmers itll be way easier to grind geat from pvm and necro gear will be better to farm out for skillers looking for a different path. But yeah i do agree it is a bit wierd and all over with the things. I personally find that if going forward they had weapons with effects. And then maybe have eof abilities as a drop instead. Making the eof the new t95 a thing of the past and giving us new fun rewards😊

[@jefferygaldamez5551]

Necromancy has allowed me to experience PVMing in RS3. After playing the game for so long and not bossing, necromancy has allowed me to do so. I just wanted to have the full on bossing experience before I stop playing RS3 all together due to life, work, and other responsibilities. I won’t be able to play the game forever, so I disagree as well.

[@Powerofghostwot]

Make greater grico be unnerfed and not require charoming or just not require charoming

[@codybeck5110]

I'm not sure necromancy is the issue, it's that bosses don't have have any weaknesses/resistances that are meaningful. You can simply camp necro at every boss and destroy everything. A possible solution would be to have mage only/range only/melee only bosses (or simply make one style shine above others) therefore making it more meaningful to progress other styles. OSRS progression might feel better, but it really boils down to the fact that you just can't camp one style. If you could shadow every single boss in the game and have it be OP, you can rest assured 95% of players would just upgrade magic and not touch the other styles which is what we're seeing in rs3.

[@saddenn]

yeah like necro doesn't work on the rex matriarchs

[@boofhitter21]

I feel like the easiest thing they can do to lighten the load of the other styles is to do what they did with necromancy and add an interface that tells you your skills, like your suggestion. Long term, they could just make necromancy weaker, but it'd defeat the whole purpose of why they made it, which was to get more new players hooked into pvming through a simple and easy to learn style, the only solution i can think of is to make it a tank style, which, while it makes it weaker, it also makes it very easy to learn with, which is why they made the skill in the first place, though this would've needed to happen SUPER early into the development due to the community getting to play with necromancy for a whole year now and getting a good grip on its abilities. They definitely shot themselves in the foot making a combat style so potent AND being the main pull for newer people into PVMing, even in its early tiers, they could've done more to fix the other styles, like, as I and this video have said, an interface to see what the style progression looks like, or going back to tweak the gear of the other 3 styles (Melee especially, considering it's seperated into 2 skills, it seems so lackluster, even before Necromancy.) I think the game just has to live with this, since it's pulled in so much life into PVMing, changing the skill in any meaningful way would cause outrage, especially sparking the two sides of the Necromancy argument, the only way they can salvage the situation is to make the other styles stronger with their 120 releases, but even then, it wont solve the gear price problem, the only thing that stops this is an untradeable drop, but this introduces the other problems of mains not feeling it's worth it due to either low gp/hr or not being able to buy it. The game has the opposite of the OSRS progression, because in that game, there's so many gear paths you can take, you can either go for Barrows armor, or you can grind out the Void Knight set, you don't need both, but in RS3, the progression is so streamlined and linear, that something like Necromancy came out with only two bosses, with one dropping all the t90 gear instead of it being spread across different bosses, I know I shouldn't compare the two games because they're fundamentally different from eachother, but I just want to point out the weirdness going on with the two games.

[@Zghanem000]

Necro is nerfed so much now i think more than what jagex described and no longer the most powerful and also this is 120 not 99 and this is not what reflects the 120 its now like any 99 but the good thing is it’s accessible. Im pretty sure if melee becomes 120 will be more powerful than current necromancy

[@killler240]

The other styles are bad to gear because they are old. The content was drip via boss releases

[@morephenek]

My only complaint about necro is that it shouldn't have been 120 till the other styles reached 120, it's the only 120 combat skill ofc it's going to be better than a 99 skill. Instead of fixing necro to match the others, bring them to 120. We don't have a combat square we have a combat ladder with necro and range fighting at the top. Melee is still trying to even get on the ladder, and mage is talking about how it was once the best.

[@romanes_eunt_domus]

??? Melee is a dps machine rn

[@morephenek]

@@romanes_eunt_domus I figured that part would be clearly seen as joking.

[@30000berry]

The new course works fine. Make it easier and not so grindy. Just update old content and make new bis inv. Perks

[@FearThePegasus]

Youve said it a couple of times but i dont know what you are referencing but you say "sliske armor". Are you talking about anima core of sliske?

[@WyattAdler-s5m]

Yes, it has the affect of mimicking any set of warpriest armor. If you do the Tuska minigame to unlock the Tuska warpriest it has a bonus effect that increases your crit chance. When you use that effect with the sliske armor it is BIS for magic crit builds with the FSOA

[@FearThePegasus]

@@WyattAdler-s5m oh interesting, had no idea

[@Baggedgreens2]

I made an Ironman recently and refuse to level up Necro just cause I don’t want the game handing me the progression.

[@1234samuka]

Thats the point 5:10 . They wanna make the game playable for the 99% ppl that play runes for fun, get into the engame. I do like the fact that u can play a build that u dont have to pay 1.5b for a single skill unlock...

[@futuremcguives1471]

Hot take, but Ability Codexes are a massive turn off. Ignoring the costs, I think they heavily change the way your rotations work and heavily impact the way you interact with combat. I think you have to relearn combat every time a new codex is released. EOC already has a very high skill ceiling and relearning every three months is just a sour pill to swallow.

[@SamWestwood448]

I agree.. necromancy killed the game for me.

[@keith112]

Well every other combat style feels useless to use now since Necromancy has all of their benefits all in one and its much cheaper and relaxing to use, like why would I want to spend 800m+ and 300m+ for a ECB and EOF plus taking the time to swap to use it every fight when I could just use Necro split soul and have it free + only 1 button press?

[@MichaelChiklisCares]

Runescape will die this decade anyway, poetic justice to a game riddled with MTX.

[@bigpoppaproductions5986]

100% necro is the problem child to the combat game.

[@pcgamesf2p708]

i dont know why you said rasia is eassy for me is not still i cant kill it lol rakshas 2 solak telos

[@Rbsmith683]

I agree that necro is in a weird state, I think the t95 magics are a great step forward. I see necro as the easiest style, both in gearing and play style. And necro allows you to play the full end game so you can open up the other styles which are hard to gear and play. Personally, I got BIS necro, learned most bosses and now I have fun playing with the other styles. I personally love this style of game play, if I want to sweat I’ll use necro. If I want to just have fun and get somewhat close I’ll play with out styles. I love this, means I know the bosses with an easier style and when I want more of a challenge I’ll move onto the harder styles

[@TheLunaStones]

I think necromancy's gear route is improvement that we can get past and I think Jagex could take the approach up to t90 for the other styles similarly to necromancy. I guess the biggest problem there is, what about the old gear? The current system for other styles has its pros and cons, especially for all the essence from bosses like regular Nex. Now, not everything has value yet in this manner, unfortunately. I think this is roughly how I would approach the problem: - Introduce "Hermodic Plates" to other low level bosses to upgrade melee/mage/range craftable armor t70-t90. - Armadyl pieces would be used to upgrade crafted ranged gear, Bandos pieces for melee, and I guess some of Zilyana's drops could get a use for magic gear upgrades if we wanted to balance it out between the 4 GWD1 generals. - As for the weapons - Melee kinda has it down with smithing already, minus the weird scaling. Elder Rune 2h +5 would be a t90 weapon. Ranged and Magic -- Hopefully these are addressed with the fletching/crafting/runecrafting updates, but the process for upgrading gear could involve making higher level materials in a similar way that necro upgrades. Not saying with bars and rituals, but perhaps a new unique crafting/runecrafting/fletching/etc method. - As for current t90 and higher weapons/armor, they all need some kind of broken down tradable material and an invention component that is useful in gizmos if they don't have one already. - Give older items unique set effects (partial and full) and maybe address some older special attacks to retain their value. Still allows the equipment to have some use while also being useful for crafting later down the line in your journey. I'm just throwing out ideas and by no means do I expect anyone, especially Jagex, to take everything into consideration. I just want the health of the game's economy to continue for all stages of players. Old and new. Rebuilds, ironman, or end-game gearing.

[@musclesdolphin3225]

Totally disagree, necromancy is the best thing that happened to rs3

[@bigpoppaproductions5986]

Right, a combat skills the pretty much made every other combat skill useless The balance was closer with the 3 prior.

[@dramatyst5661]

Best thing for people who couldn't boss before

[@esaunders492]

Definitely got into pvm when necro came out and grinded to get bis by killing Ras. My fav combat style was range before but it’s so much harder to learn. I do have the cash for bis range now but I don’t even want to spend it on it at this point lol

[@Nathan-uo9yf]

No reason you should have to spend 1000s of hours to get bis in one style..I feel like Necro allows a fair chance for everyone that wants to start learning to boss. You have to spend sooooo many hours on an account to have it ready for bossing not including bis gear. Necro makes it feel achievable. I’m comped and still don’t have bis in any one style aside from Necro, but now I feel like I can start obtaining things.

[@l0c0ug0]

Honestly if they can rework "Luck" to be actually useful in a way that, if you want the "Luck" to proc instead of switching rings you have to use it the entire fight. On paper is sounds terrible however, like they mentioned in the most recent stream that if they give us a buff is just a "buff" however if you now have to replace your ring slop for "Luck" that by all means is useless in combat, it give the player a choice increase drop rate over slower DPS, IE give me an option to use leprechauns hat, rabbits foot, dwarf relic or H ring all together, my dps will be shit and the fight might go on for much longer but if it increases my drops rate to a point where its worth my time, that's okay with me. This allows luck to become a niche stat with great reward potential over just an item used for .01secs at the end of a fight. As an added bonus maybe they can add an item that will proc the boss to drop the piece you are missing, so you have less of a chance at a duplicate. Now the real problem drop rates for players like myself is that we have other responsibilities now and we can't camp a boss for a week or even a months if your doing everything solo, that makes the game very very boring and it feels like a job. At the same time I can understand the harm to the current game economy if drops are increased, hence why I offer the rework luck solution. My gear progression journey is rough, mostly because I don't have the time to play but also it feels like there's a huge disparity between high level gear and BIS, I know they are supposed to be the "Best" however the DPS increase from say tier 88/92 to 95/100 is massive, while everything below it is par for the course. This is just my .02 cents, I'm sure some will agree some will disagree and that's fine the one thing we can all agree on is that this version of the game is lacking, what i mean by this is that OSRS is the best version of RS (before EOC) and RS3 has been lost ever since EOC trying to find its place/final form. I love this game I been playing it for a long time and I want everyone to have fun playing it and to enjoy the time they do play, whether you play for few minutes a day to what ever your current situation allows.

[@pucie_boi]

I think Necromancy kinda ruined the game. A ton of new players became ironmen because how easy necro was to get and dominate with; but they missed the whole grind of being an ironman before necromancy released. I was an ironman before necromancy came out; and necromancy kinda ruined the ironman grind

[@abdoali51]

I think they are focusing on making base kit easy to get and add ons that improve your dps by small margin hard to get. One good example is shard genesis and praesul codex

[@AhmetYilmaz-z2s]

They've ruined the game by being lazy and adding necromancy, in my opinion. They're still spending a lot of time on it, but they should be focusing on melee instead, because it feels off in PvM. Using melee feels punishing-Berserk increases damage taken, and power gear only has T70 defense stats, which is ridiculous. At this point, they might as well remove melee or fix it properly. For example, they introduced new tank gear, but it can't even be augmented-I'm talking about the Primal gear. A possible fix could be to add a 10-20% damage reduction during Berserk. What do you guys think?

[@sniperlif3]

Necro made the game easy, yes. It is a 120 skill..... Other combat skills are 99....Why do content creators forget this??? Necro requires a lot in order to be max. You are a top end player. Necro is NOT easy for most players, because of bosses. Top end players are less than 10% of the community. Necro gear is easy for bossers and that is it. The game is being changed from being 10% focused to a 90% focus. I know of 3 people who just rejoined because of their new focus. You are a maxed combat content creator, stop thinking everything is about you. Jagex is a company, they want more players. A content creator doesn't affect their gains by much anymore, they need new people, not old people making new accounts. You of all people should want Jagex to succeed because their growth leads to your growth.

[@Cuckie1996]

Delete Necro and move everyone's Necro xp into the new skill sailing, problem solved 🤣

[@الطريقالحق-ج6ش]

T90 necro equipement is close to tectonics .. also dps wise magic is so powerful and really close to necro imo.

[@zarosseagle]

The fix is just to nerf t90+ drop rates for other styles, to be more in-line with the magic T95s wand and orb. Will be a tough inital lump for PvMers to swallow, but accessability of gear fixes this issue and lowers the barrier of entry to end-game PvP., which is good for the game. Lv110 skill updates should be tailored to enable an alt. cheap/non PvM route to decent near end-game gear.

[@joelmulligan8213]

“Necro is at the center of the problem” lost me immediately

[@abdoali51]

I wonder why people didnt make so much noise back then when rago was like rasial dropping all t90 bis mage gear. Or ascension dungeon dropping all t90 bis ranged gear

[@aaronw-arrior9974]

Because there was challenge at the time. And plenty of people complain up to today. Maybe a bit less sonce t95 wand and orb so easy now. But yeah people are for sure still complaining about it😂

[@abdoali51]

@@aaronw-arrior9974 so should we gatekeep bis items for only 1% of players to enjoy it behind hard bosses. I dont think this will help game longevity at all.

[@aaronw-arrior9974]

@abdoali51 who said gatekeepers. I said the model was good but change effects to the chase item. Plus. We act like rsguy didn't just do a video using t50 weapons and beating hardmode sanctum with no gear otherwise. Can I do it in bis mage 4t and all the stuff. Not yet but I'm bad atthe fundamentals. I expect to get it down1 day. But if you mean you do nothing and get the best gear......that's just ge that's fine. 💯 But year I don't think things should be so easy everything is just free. Should be something to work towards ya know. But yeah if that's the case. Curses are gateekeeping. Cause it's locked behind quests. Which most people also don't see as a bad thing. 🤔 like having chase things is important. For all levels of players. Early mid high. And yes. Even top 1%. Everyone needs a chase. Hope that clears it up a bit

[@ducksquidbat8315]

@@abdoali51 Cosmetic items that are tradable from hard mode versions is the solution. Hard mode rasial dropping red skulls for example

[@reaperz03]

It does not feel weird, now it i your chance to go fast, before they add up ability codexes for necro. And necro did a great job for the game saving the lower player base from a money sink, which are melee ranged and magic. Switch scape is also a problem. The game became just a destroy your keyboard and many people leave because of it to. It doesn't help.

[@aKindred]

Necro is the best designed combat style, it's the only reason me and a lot of people got into pvming, the other styles are overcomplicated for no apparent reason, the issue is that the other styles needs more updates like they got a couple months ago, make them more approachable and enjoyable like necro, necro being easy to get into is a really healthy thing to the game People can get into other styles because they want to, just like people do things I dislike and see no reason, people can like that, I have see no reason to use ranged, it's boring and sweaty af, but some people enjoy that and that's okay, necro is easier to understand, gear and utilize for those who never did any kind of pvm I firmly belive necro is the big reason why a lot of players came back to the game and tried pvming for the first time

[@alygo6789]

Also, you really overlook the fact that the vast majority of players *buy* their gear, they do not grind it out or DIY. That's why PVM drops are so much - because skillers/non-PVMers, or lower level PVMers *buy* high level PVM gear. Without that demand PVM gear wouldn't be worth so much. So this notion that Necro ruins progression is *only* true for IM, not mains or normal players.

[@OmniDan26]

Not your best video ngl

[@ANon-Eemus]

Actually a funny guy

[@abir1125]

When melee was trash, everyone just said deal with it. There'll always be a weak style. Now that magic and ranged users are feeling that same pain, they wanna cry. Also, the entire game is balanced around a slow progression of the other styles. Necromancy came in and shook everything up. Noobs can get decent gear and elite PvMers are furious. Why? XP rates get better so combat should become more accessible. The other styles should become easier to get into, but I don't mind if that takes a minute. Invention does that. Make old gear relevant for components. No one likes bossing for components though.

[@ducksquidbat8315]

Don't you think running the same rotation over and over and over and over and over again will get boring eventually? I've done a lot of necro but I'm actually really bored of it now but I don't really have the motivation to learn a more difficult style for absolutely zero benefit other than a more difficult and slower boss fight. If necro was 20% worse than the other three styles at least it would still be accessible and usable but give incentive for players to use other shit other than skulls go brrr

[@abir1125]

Necromancy was designed to be EOC 2.0. In other words, it's a lot more intuitive than the other combat styles. The motivation to learn a new combat style comes from being bored of the one you are using. Why nerf necromancy because the other combat styles haven't caught up? What I see is skills being brought up to 110 that will feed into pushing other styles to 120.

[@brianesparza6480]

First!😊

[@alygo6789]

Hard disagree. The whole point of necromancy was to *break* the archaic and incredibly obscurantist other styles. That's a feature, not a bug. It's what the other styles are supposed to be. To balance Necromancy around the other 3 would be self-defeating. I think RS3 PVMers just can't see this or accept it.