Why Summoning a Persona Takes A HEAVY TOLL

[@theunoriginalpizzaguy6682]

P3: russian roulette P5: ripping your skin off P4: the hellish pain of a paper cut

[@oriongear2499]

Personally, I think the level of pain that comes from summoning a Persona can vary from game to game.

[@ValiantStranger12]

P3: It's like willing yourself to ram your toenail into a wall P4: Do you know how terrifying it is knowing other people have seen all my repressed thoughts and urges P5: METAL😎

[@VoidPaul97]

@@ValiantStranger12 I mean, P4 is more mentally taxing because you're breaking your mental barriers and facing feelings you don't like, but it isn't _that_ hard (S.E.E.S. says that summoning Personas is easier in the Midnight Channel). P3 is more emotionally demanding because you're facing yourself with the fear of literally dying; you always treat a gun as if it were loaded, let alone a fake one. Plus, in Reload they're seen changing cartridges when using theurgies which implies that the Evokers actually do something to the user (maybe using Plumes of Dusk to induce the sensation of something being shot? That would explain Yukari's struggling). P5 is more physically demanding because you're ripping your face's skin off every time. I can't even tolerate peeling a handnail, let alone a whole ass mask stuck to my skin. On top of that, add the mental pressure that comes from revealing your true self. All in all, they're all equally demanding and painful to the users because the context in which they summon their Personas is different. And in their own context, their summoning way is the most painful way.

[@GrandTemplarVigilant]

@@ValiantStranger12P1 and P2: Point and shoot.

[@ValiantStranger12]

Don't take me out of context but if I had the power to summon a Persona I'd probably need an Evoker to reliably do it. The Mask is cool and the Tarot card is healthy for your mental but the Evoker is the only thing I can depend on when I need it During the heat of battle I don't think I'll care about rebelling or looking for the truth I'm only focuses on facing Death head on and the Evoker gives me the resolve to do that and if I can't pull the trigger than I shouldn't be in the field in the first place.

[@ValiantStranger12]

I'm just now realizing that I picked Evoker not because it's most effective but because I'd rather fake boom myself rather than reveal my repressed thoughts and urges But I'll definitely do the Mask, I have no issue with flipping off society

[@VoidPaul97]

@@ValiantStranger12 Yeah, but the Evoker is the only objectively viable option for all cases (unless they work like a normal gun in the Metaverse). The Tarot Cards and Mask only work in their respective cognitive worlds, but the Evoker was designed to work during the Dark Hour that _technically_ is the real world.

[@Persona-Joop-157]

If the rumor that the game takes place in an art school and that the theme is black and white and modern vs traditional is true, then I can see that mirror thing really coming true

[@beedrillfanatic5933]

A neat detail about Evokers is also how forceful the summon appears in contrast to others. In Persona 4 and 5, there is an understanding that Personas are borne from shadows, manifestations of self-doubt and weakness in humans. In this context, the characters in both these games must overcome these weaknesses within themselves in order to wield a Persona. However, the cast of P3 were all simply scouted by SEES and deemed to have "potential", and are generally unaware of the true nature of a Persona. Sure, you can argue that pulling the trigger of the Evoker takes a decent amount of resolve, but summoning your Persona doesn't mean you can completely control it. We can observe this in the cases of Strega and Shinjiro, where these characters are forced to take Persona suppressors. We can infer from this that the Evoker is not a normal method of summoning a Persona, rather an artificial tool that "forces" the Persona out of the psyche. In this case, the P3 cast is implied to have the least mental control over their Personas' actions, given they have not achieved the self-actualization to summon them through sheer will.

[@huntercoleherr]

It may also be that summoning them in our reality is just a lot harder. We see in P4A that the SEES team is surprised to find that they can easily summon their personas in the TV world without their evokers. Mitsuru is the first to discover it by accidentally summoning hers while drawing her evoker. Just the decision to summon it seems to be enough in the TV world, even for SEES. In contrast, we see evidence that the Investigation Team can't summon theirs at all outside of the TV world (Rise lamenting that she can't use her powers in the real world on the class trip), so I don't think it is just a matter self-actualization. Shadows simply aren't generally able to be in the human world, and only very unusual things like the Dark Hour can provide the conditions for them to enter it at all.

[@beedrillfanatic5933]

@huntercoleherr We have yet to see the Investigation team or any non-SEES Persona user be in an environment similar to the Dark Hour to truly compare how difficult a Persona is to summon in "reality". Arguably, Tartarus was borne from humanities collective wish for death so in principle it should be treated like a product of cognition (i.e. a Palace). In this regard, it would make sense if Joker and his motley crew could summon their Personas just fine without Evokers. The Investigation team is tricky tho, as their Personas seem to only manifest in the TV world, with minor exceptions being where said TV world bleeds into reality like in P4A ultimax.

[@huntercoleherr]

@@beedrillfanatic5933 I was thinking about it more in the reverse. Seeing how it was just as easy for SEES to summon personas while in the TV world as compared to reality (although it is mentioned Mitsuru and Akihiko have learned to summon Personas without evokers at some point). It suggests that they are at least on par with the IT in that respect.

[@beedrillfanatic5933]

@@huntercoleherr That's true, tho you have to consider that's post Journey SEES, where it is implied they have a greater understanding of what shadows are and are generally mature enough to recognize the flaws in their own character. It's not exactly an equal comparison.

[@pablotomasllodra4423]

Also, Evokers are the most reliable method to summon Personas post-Persona 1 & 2, given that the masks and tarot cards only exist inside cognitive realities while the Evokers are technology designed for the Dark Hour, an space between the real and mental worlds, as well as the Kirijo group not knowing about cognitive realities at that time, much less Persona Game ritual, so they had to make do with exploiting a Persona’s natural instincts and for that, they needed people that had natural potential for awakening their Personas. Outside the Dark Hour or the collective unconscious? Persona summoning without aid is theoretically possible but practically? Is incredibly taxing and requires a lot of training and meditation, so Evokers are still the easiest and most reliable way to use Personas.

[@VoidPaul97]

Yup. I'll take the tarot cards any day of the week because it looks cool, but if I'm outside the Midnight Channel or the Metaverse, I'd rather fake my life subscription cancel.

[@huntercoleherr]

Although as we see with Strega, if you use an evoker without having true Potential, it can be quite deadly. Your persona might even attempt to kill you.

[@aaron75fy]

only persona 5 dealt with cognition

[@perfumedgnat9659]

​@@aaron75fy p4's tv world is still inside humanities heart

[@planetbirthday6859]

For persona 4 I thought the only downside of the summoning is that you might not even survive the first experience cause your shadow might kill you if you don't accept, but to think they continuously still feel drained whenever they summon

[@alexray1711]

It's always hard to face yourself

[@makokitsune6487]

I mean Evoker seems to only induce stress during awakening. Once you know it's not a real gun the effect should be lessened. No character mentions any physical pain after using it nor do they mention any kind of traumatic sensation. The only line I could find where someone was complaining about evokers was from Junpei who says that while they look cool he wonders why do they got to look like a gun and comments that for someone to pull the trigger at them selves one must be trully sick in the head. So till this day Evoker machinations aren't truly explained besides making you extremely aware of one's mortality.

[@VoidPaul97]

Well, in Reload they change cartridges to use Theurgy. My theory is that the Evokers use Plumes of Dusk to induce some sort of sensation while pulling the trigger to make the feeling more "real" and make it effectively work even after knowing it's not a real gun. And to use Theurgy, they need a stronger one to release that energy.

[@properjellydontbeproper3652]

I wonder for P6,we might throw up to summon a persona. But it’ll look like different colors? Like we feel so sick eating all the crap & we don’t take it anymore & we can finally speak our minds after we get it out of us. Either that or rip ur heart out like metaphor

[@hasshenjo6416]

Not to mention awakening to your persona for the first time often leaves the user tired or fatigued

[@umbrellaxrd]

this video is kinda funny because. In persona 1 & 2 the personas just come out super fast with no downside at all

[@tobiasdoesthings9546]

I feel like removing your mask to summon a persona is probably my favorite because I feel that revealing your true nature makes for a very cool way to summon one

[@yohann3825]

Spoilers ahead so feel free to skip if you want: If you played the answer you see that after AIGIS accepted Métis who’s her shadow, she has the same symptoms that the P4/P5 cast present after they awaken their personas (exhaustion and more) I feel like since the P3 cast already knew they were compatible due to the dark hour and more they didn’t really have to accept or face their shadow/other self since death was the only thing constantly on their mind hence the evoker as using it reminds them of this but also serves as a way to accept death

[@jasonblundelldobebussing]

You gotta pay the toll to take the boy's whole

[@SmartJapanHacksCulture]

I always thought this was the coolest way to summon a persona. It was part of what made Persona 3 feel so cool and edgy when I first played it. I'm really glad more people got to experience it through Reload.

[@dmann1982]

Explain why an Evoker isn't used in P4Arena and Ultimax by the P3 characters, if this is the case.

[@alexray1711]

Haven't played Ultimax but in Arena both S.E.E.S and the investigation team are inside the TV world a world that imo acts as a metaverse allowing them to summon their personas more easily as they're closer the the collective unconscious unlike in P3 where they're physically in the human world and the world is being influenced by Nyx who is actually if I'm thinking right a alien that preys on worlds isn't a creation of the collective unconscious therefore is different than P4 and P5

[@kira516]

Persona 1,2,trinity soul : STANDO PAWA GO BRRRRRRRRRR

[@jakeriese4862]

Is the Evoker and Mask & Tarrot Cards discussions actually true based on mythology and things or just your speculation

[@kagekun1198]

I once saw a presentation that offered an explanation for the difference in difficulty summoning Personas. Essentially, the world is divided in stratums starting from the surface world, the real world, down to the deepest level, the sea of souls, the collective unconscious. Persona 3's Dark Hour is the closest to the real world compared to Persona 4's TV world and Persona 5's Metaverse. That's why an artificial tool like the Evoker is needed to summon a Persona. However, if the same Persona User is put in the TV World or the Metaverse, which are lower stratums and therefore closer to the sea of souls, they would not require their Evoker anymore to summon their Persona. Proof: P4 Ultimax Arena. There is a section where Mitsuru enters the TV World and mentions in an inner monologue that summoning her Persona is easier, quicker.

[@aaron75fy]

2:30 wrong, its not about just accepting the inevitability of death that made him pull the trigger. it was the fact that he thought there was a reason Yukari was about to do it in a trying time. it was a desperate move. the Makoto you describe is in the anime only 4:13 despite Mitsuru saying that Tartarus and the dark hour is taxing on the body and not the persona itself? 7:26 then why didn't it happen to Yu? Yu didn't have to do that since he had no barriers, also they already done that since they can all summon their personas

[@paca-wd8wu]

…okay but what about Koromaru?