Why Taxing the Rich is So Strong in Victoria 3 (Advanced Tutorial)

[@ReaperCheaper]

Spreadsheet monster

[@generalistgaming]

“He who fights with monsters might take care lest he thereby become a monster. And if you gaze for long into an spreadsheet, the spreadsheet gazes also into you.”

[@chase55431]

I love how this is not socialist propaganda and is simply "meta gaming". But it's also the logical outcome to the game being fundamentally materialist.

[@generalistgaming]

Definitely

[@EmilKadabell]

To be fair it IS a game where all the modifiers and effects have values created by whatever the developers decide and does not necessarily correspond 1-to-1 with reality😊

[@DaFreeze220]

Because in Victoria 3 there are no tax loopholes to help the rich avoid paying taxes

[@zainal-mashhadani4206]

😂😂 true

[@Kaiser282]

I think that's what the investment pool penalty is supposed to represent once the economy gets large enough.

[@zainal-mashhadani4206]

@@Kaiser282 Yeah I think it makes sense now

[@olddirtycracker]

And no "not for profit' scam organizations lobbying for their tax breaks.

[@TheSipherArcher]

We love you just the way you are. Spreadsheets and all! Chop-chops for the win!

[@generalistgaming]

*makes cannibalism jokes* “We love you just the way you are” 👀

[@diamondgirly2126]

I LOVE SPREADSHEETS PLEASE DONT EVER STOP IM ADDICTED TO THEM

[@generalistgaming]

Find help

[@whitefang20]

General, I will no longer be bugging you for an Empire under the Pun run. I finally got it last night. Sikh-> India -> achievement . Now I will switch to bugging you for Indian territory run 😂

[@lazykatie42069]

how did you manage to accomplish it

[@whitefang20]

Got an obligation from GB in opium wars, capitulated as the war began, declared transfer subject on one the EIC subjects, that forced the release of EIC and subsequent shatter of it. Then reverse swayed for bankrolls as much as possible and formed India and was ready to attack after that

[@lazykatie42069]

@@whitefang20 oh my god you can shatter the eic like that?!

[@whitefang20]

Yeah. I didn’t know it till I saw a Reddit post about it. Britain can’t help due to the obligations and Sikh can win if you set on defense until EIC has severe casualties - you then can push right in. I got Delhi and the split state of Punjab plus war reps as well

[@lazykatie42069]

@@whitefang20 insane, I'll have to try that

[@holtropsfinest1641]

mate, never stop doing vic3 content. got 1,5k hours ingame but there are always good hints and interesting thoughts in your videos. thanks dude!

[@generalistgaming]

Thanks for watching!

[@TheSipherArcher]

Dude, you're such a great teacher. Before this video I never fully understood your point about "taxing the rich" was more efficient. Thank you this video helps explain why is it. A nice topic to dove tail on this one is how welfare laws effect things. Consumption, SOL, etc. Should I be going for welfare or avoiding it?

[@Iawait]

it may be more feasible to give better jobs to people or give them more jobs even if that might be a government based job where the people still work. While in real life welfare might be interesting debate there are a lot of theories and economic methods for the real life old age pension should be the case but if it can be possible everybody should be able to work without discrimination (As long as the product put out is of equal quality as that of an average worker.) it really depends on what youre demographics looks like or migration attraction Higher migration attraction = less need for enacting welfare for pops to consume (Because you can just give them private or public jobs.)

[@Iawait]

If you are a way too backwards society with bad migration attraction then you may want to get poor laws or something else to gain more birthrate. it all depends on youre situation and how you may want to deal with unemployment.

[@EskiltheWanderer]

Social security for your pops makes them (namely the poor) better able to buy goods. If foreign importers are taking your goods and leaving your pops with the burden of their high cost, welfare can force the traders to deal with higher prices, thus protecting your economy.

[@Makofueled]

@@EskiltheWanderer Nice knock-on effect. It appeals to my inner protectionism enjoyment.

[@generalistgaming]

Welfare is generally not very good, but that "generally" is pretty lose. I often pass it for IG approval reasons

[@abelmolina3835]

I hope they add customizable tax brackets at some point

[@generalistgaming]

If they do this I'm full taxing the upper class. In practice taxes were often regressive in this period though.

[@aprince1250]

I want to say they had this in Vicky2.

[@abelmolina3835]

Vicky 2 was pretty cool with the sliders, but ideally one would be able to adjust tax rates to the income rather than to the social strata (while also keeping the existing factor of being able to treat dividend income different from labor income).

[@Flanor]

Something that you did not touch on is radicals, if you have to lower the SoL of way more lower strata to get the same tax as lowering the SoL of a few higher strata you would expect to also get more radicals. Another reason why taxing the rich is better.

[@generalistgaming]

I think at one point in the video I mention that I don't want to completely unpack all the side effects of SoL - too much to talk about

[@ParadoxaLGames]

I'm passionate about content like this. It takes a lot of dedication and understanding of a game to make videos like this. Keep up the good work!

[@kieranking3045]

Would that it could be so easy irl. Love the tutorials as always!

[@generalistgaming]

Yes! Thank you!

[@tuskular]

What do you think of going completely for consumption taxes? at least later on when construction starts falling off, would this not be better for SOL? at least eventually, especially countries like Qing or EITC

[@generalistgaming]

I think you have to be in an ungodly lategame scenario that might not even be possible anymore w/ new migration to prefer it to Graduated in the aggregate. It would be better for SoL though yeah

[@Frostenheim]

Is the wee woo outside the recurring character of Generalist Gaming channel?

[@thatmarioguy4063]

Could you make a video about migration mechanics? I often run into the issue where the population of my less developed states will drain to the capital, and I can’t fix it. If I try to build more, there is not enough population to run profitably, and I can’t get soL up so the population just death spirals, and resources are unexploited

[@generalistgaming]

I've got a bunch of notes on it, will make a video on it soon! (tm)

[@snikta564]

It's so strong in Vic 3 because it's so strong IRL. 😊 ..And thanks for making the best channel on Vic 3! 🎉

[@generalistgaming]

Thank you!

[@จตุพรจันทสุรวงศ์]

Because the player are in control of those taxes not the government and the player are generally more efficient in term of capital allocation.

[@crocworks]

One issue I had in my latest game was that I was not having enough capitalists to fully operate the factories that I wanted. It seemed like I was putting too many taxes on my middle and upper strata. But this also might not be an issue later on when the ownership rework happens next patch.

[@metaflight9495]

There is currently no way to tax capitalist pops enough for capitalist jobs to not always be better for Pops SoL than any other job. Hate to say it but your problem has nothing to do with taxing the upper strata too much, literacy and/or Wealth for low & middle strata pops is probably too low to generate the qualifications needed for capitalist jobs.

[@crocworks]

Well, the issue was mostly showing up in places that I conquered and had discriminated pops in, so that's likely why. But I was hoping that getting enough money available for the pops there, coupled with the promote social mobility decree would help offset that discrimination penalty, but it didn't get to the extent that I wanted. And Multiculturalism was impossible for me to pass that game...

[@carlosfuentes9506]

Have you tried playing as Portugal? They play like a worse United Netherlands (without the East Indies and with a free Macao treaty port).

[@generalistgaming]

Yeah, but they honestly feel super vanilla

[@xModerax]

Spreadsheets are a big part of why we watch this ❤

[@rima-L93]

20:43 you're welcome guys.

[@frederickryeland313]

Raymond Chandler on exponential needs: "[The rich] never want anything very hard except maybe somebody else's wife and that's a pretty pale desire compared with the way a plumber's wife wants curtains for the living room."

[@diamondgirly2126]

Can you link the spreadsheet you used for this video please (the goods required for each wealth level)

[@generalistgaming]

It's tied to my personal email which I've been raking back access to (or at least trying to) in terms of shared docs so I don't want to share it. If you message me on discord I can send you screenshots though

[@abhishekchaudhari913]

No the head isn't big and ugly its round and sparkly! In all seriousness though I can now kinda understand why the irl US isn't just eating the rich (aside from the lobbies) by the not so great example in the between

[@generalistgaming]

Lobbies are a big deal yeah

[@Bloise49]

Half point average of SOL is cearly a big deal. its the diference between an chaotic nation and an stable economy. Just look at the diference at SOL in your states, you'll see that the way better state would have at most 2 SOL more than the worst state in the economy.

[@vladm2364]

Can you tax the loud cars?

[@generalistgaming]

They be evadin

[@minhuctrinh1059]

spreadsheets is the perrfect thing to wwatch wwhile eating (the rich) dinner

[@grandgibbon2071]

I don't think it does, but it would also make sense if the wealthy due to the higher tax burden on them increased their contribution to the construction pool, to avoid said higher tax brackets.

[@generalistgaming]

That'd be interesting, but involve a lot of new moving parts

[@Sr.Pirulito]

I wish they learned this strat in real life...

[@generalistgaming]

Just some salt and pepper

[@Hebelehubelledurchfall]

OH NO ITS A SPREADSHEET

[@generalistgaming]

OHNO!

[@ALV694]

Ultimate challenge, play as Haiti

[@MegaVictor1129]

Godbless you generalist

[@sureee_kidsure9180]

thank you for remembering to warn about the adult content!

[@generalistgaming]

Gotta remember the children!

[@abdalla5469]

I wanna learn the spread sheets thing i feel it's too good

[@Maurcusj777]

Now, if only the game could model tax evasion and capital flight so you'd have to balance collecting tax from those with the most to give and not over burdening the important parts of your economy.

[@generalistgaming]

This would be interesting, but there are a lot of financial nuances I'd want to see before capital flight

[@benknudson8317]

I love you my bald king 💕

[@generalistgaming]

[@tuskular]

Oh no, MY EYES! NOT THE SPREAD SHEET!

[@generalistgaming]

KEEP YOUR EYES SHUT

[@TaTuZZa001]

One spread sheet to rule them all

[@generalistgaming]

For they were all of them deceived, for another spreadsheet was made...

[@llama878]

Vic 3 is a simulator of functional communism xd, only if it was that easy irl

[@paloch-qg4hw]

taxing the rich isn’t communism lmfao it is economic common sense, but hey neo liberalism say the rich will pee on you and you may get some lil drops so no taxes for them

[@RasakBlood]

Economically it is simple. Taxing the people that can buy a mansion to found things that improve life for everyone is very straight forward. Getting it done politically is a lot harder. You need to pass the taxes and you need to close loopholes and you need to stop capital flight by seizing everything when people try. And then you have corruption and incompetence and economical miss management etc etc etc. Math is straight forward. People are not.

[@starvingpeoplecantcomplain]

I love spreadsheets❤

[@generalistgaming]

[@bargiona]

This video was more confusing than the average. I think the simplifications proposed with the goods and costs was too much for the validity of your conclusions.

[@generalistgaming]

You mean using base prices instead of real prices? Prices are going to fluctuate a lot based on different conditions throughout the game

[@bargiona]

@@generalistgaming I know, but iron will always be more expensive than grain. Counting both as "a resource" consumed oversimplifies the impact of many decisions. In SOL case, the substitutions make it even harder to try actual calculations, but extrapolating goods a bit further shouldn't be too hard, I think.

[@generalistgaming]

@@bargiona basket fulfillment is relativized to base prices so that one thing has a higher base price than another (and consequently is always higher price) isn't really a factor. The problem is that the three goods that influence SoL most (grain, liquor, and basic clothing) have wildly different prices throughout most of the game. Solving for a high price scenario would be less useful than a base price scenario when it comes to extrapolating for a low price scenario. Even if it weren't tedious or difficult to plug in the numbers (and it would be because pops don't substitute in a rational way), the problem is that an exact calculation for one scenario won't play in another. Also the entire point of showing an example, on top of just looking at the math, is to see it act out in terms of looking how things are affected.

[@moiseskilp]

Isnt only in vic 3, in real world too

[@dagever7]

Please do a turtle Island exploit playthrough 🙏

[@MrProzeph]

I like

[@generalistgaming]

Big nice

[@nickjohnstone14]

You should be in the base game.

[@generalistgaming]

I think I'm going to have a credit in the credits after 1.7 actually!

[@alternativedimension5454]

Eat tax the rich

[@Bloise49]

Considering that vic3 emulates real life, can we just come to the conclusion that the billionaires are responsible for the decrease in the standard of living of the entire world? I think so...

[@Centurion-ph7gk]

Vic 3 is no were close to a good realistic version of the economy. If you base your economics of Vic 3 I have bad news for you.

[@ThomasstevenSlater]

@@Centurion-ph7gk If anything Victoria 3 is overly generous to the rich as the investment pool mechanic means that much of the money get spent in ways that are at least somewhat useful at least offering employment there's no stock buybacks, tax heavens or crypto.

[@Centurion-ph7gk]

@@ThomasstevenSlater right and technology I guess just stops advancing removing the need for investment? Which rich historically have been required for?

[@Centurion-ph7gk]

@@ThomasstevenSlater back in the day most of those taxes did not exist. So no no tax buy backs because a lot of the taxes were on tariffs.

[@Centurion-ph7gk]

@@ThomasstevenSlater also in the 19th century rich would get rich but wages increased dramatically because stable currency like always drove productivity to be the main factor of making money not capital tools in the stock market.

[@andrewrecard5857]

All this just to say tax luxury goods and pass progressive tax law.

[@generalistgaming]

I mean I frontloaded this in the intro, not sure what to tell you

[@railroad_of_oregon]

"Give a man a fish and you feed him for a day, teach a man to fish and you feed him for a life time" getting conclusion without the demonstration would only delay your learning curve.

[@grimelex]

Nooo! You cant just tax the rich. How will the wealth trickle down???

[@generalistgaming]

If you don't let the meat rest then the juice will flow more freely. Hope this helps

[@robloxtragedies5980]

the game should probably model outflow of wealthy people by calculating migration on a stratus basis, so if you tax your rich they’ll all move to britain, would be accurate

[@Arnav150]

TAX THE RICH :D

[@donaldpetersen2382]

Eat the rich😛