Why Terminator: Dark Fate Failed

[@lordtrinen2249]

"Thank you, Sarah, for your courage during the dark times." That's the beginning of John Connor's message to his mother as conveyed by Kyle Reese in the first film. Before we even get to the message, Kyle goes into detail about John's upbringing, making it clear that it was Sarah who instilled in him all the skills and qualities that turned him into the savior of humanity. She was never a walking womb. She didn't give birth to him and immediately pass him off to a military academy. It was all Sarah, her strength and motherly devotion to raising her son that made him a hero. Without Sarah Connor, there wouldn't have been a future for humanity. The people who wrote Dark Fate had never watched the first movie at all. If they had, they didn't understand it in the slightest.

[@Breadking100]

damn well said sir

[@Helljumper_Fanatic]

Damn straight, that's a much better message to get behind that what dark fate try's to push.

[@doomguydemonkiller]

Strong women (not the feminism definition) create strong men.

[@ivandelac764]

Well put, Sir! Manly salute to you!

[@jplonsdale7242]

@@doomguydemonkiller as we all know all feminism creates is misery

[@LetralXIV]

A Terminator settling down and having a family sounds like something you'd see in an SNL skit

[@Sidewayz455]

And it's something Robot Chicken did already.

[@beauwalker9820]

@@Sidewayz455 it's weird how suddenly both Robot Chicken and South Park parodies are becoming reality.

[@centrevezgaming4862]

Yep an ruthless killing machine from the future settling down and raise a family what an joke just like training Ed-209 be loyal as an puppy in RoboCop 3

[@purefoldnz3070]

and sells drapes.

[@MattExzy]

The Sarah Connor Chronicles showed that they generally hide themselves in a wall or storage facility and power down. Unless settling down and having a family leads to some sort of success of a mission, there's 100% no reason for them to do that. It's beyond bullshit. I refuse to watch it to this day.

[@shadowleon659]

Let's see. Why did Dark Fate? These are my reasons for it's failure: 1. Like Terminator Genisys, it thinks its doing something new and original. But it blatantly and half-heartedly recycles plot elements from previous films. 2. Pulled an Alien 3 by killing off a beloved character in a stupid and insulting fashion. 3. It was nothing more than a retread of T2. 4. Linda and Arnold, while still giving good performances, look bored and miserable. 5. The new characters are unlikeable and have zero development. 6. The director and writers called the people who hated this film sexists which alienated most people. 7. Too much SJW propaganda. 8. Forced Nostalgia Pandering and pointless fan service.

[@motherplayer]

Even made it's story essentially moot. So what if Dani does save the future. Nothing that hidden Legion soldier couldn't kill her afterwards and then just set this cycle all over again.

[@SergioLeonardoCornejo]

I don't need a video longer than 5 minutes to figure out why it failed. It can be summarized to a really short thing. It was made with activism and hatred in mind, instead of creativity and passion.

[@mygodisyahweh8634]

People aren't tired of the Terminator films. People are Sick of Agendas being put into the Franchise.

[@shadowleon659]

@@mygodisyahweh8634 Correction: I meant to say that people were sick and tired of more Terminator films.

[@mygodisyahweh8634]

@@shadowleon659 Subjective and nothing Wrong with that.

[@NeinBreaker]

If it were “my granddad’s Terminator”, then it would’ve been a good movie.

[@darrengordon-hill]

Pretty sure that's T1/2

[@NeinBreaker]

@@darrengordon-hill That’s more like “my dad’s Terminator”. It would’ve had to have been made a lot earlier than those moves to be “my granddad’s”. Decades earlier.

[@MetalSlug-ev5wu]

@@darrengordon-hillare you an unborn foetus?

[@ComeAlongKay]

@@darrengordon-hillage also isn’t really what the reference means it means a style of film really or the vague notion of being outdated but it isn’t. It really means something has values and is too rooted in that rather than random chicks and woke junk so they say it’s outdated. If it isn’t a garbage Mary sue character or a flat minority character then it’s outdated to them.

[@_XR40_]

If it was "your grand-dad's Terminator movie", why did all the grand-dads hate more than anyone else?

[@mygodisyahweh8634]

Agreed

[@TheCumGod]

@@mygodisyahweh8634 Your god is a desert cult's god.

[@leviswranglers2813]

Good point.

[@chatteyj]

It was a tick box movie made for no one that just rehashed T2. I don't agree that the film wasn't entertaining but is that all movies are supposed to be? Just money grabbing things that see story and lore as disposable? Some movies perhaps but not terminator. And just to clarify I didn't pay to watch it but saw it on tv just earlier this year.

[@Zodroo_Tint]

It's their way to say boomer what means "bad thing" in our culture now.

[@SommersetStriker]

The film has a very meaningful title: It is indeed a dark fate for the terminator franchise.

[@mannySABEEEE]

The worst sin is having written Sarah's lines saying that she and Danny were just the womb for the savior of humanity to be born and nothing more. Since when in the first 2 films it is intuited that there is only this one to give birth to John and disappear. Kyle himself tells her that she is a legend and is the one who forms the character of John. Even in Terminator 2 we can see that she tried to train him or that's what she wanted before they put her in the psychiatric hospital. How does it occur to Miller or Cameron to give the green light to that dialogue? That is not feminism, that is an insult to a great female character that both men and women have empathy and want to see her succeed. We never saw her as a uterus with legs. I think John's bite 3 minutes into the movie was a sin, but it could also be an interesting twist in the story. However, it was only an attempt to leave the viewer in shock, in the end there is no twist, there is nothing, just the same story with another character.

[@puppiesarepower3682]

In other words, Terminator - Walking Uterus. Terminator - The Jabroni $imp franchise.

[@thomasn3882]

Sin? Savior? Are you joking? Secular satanic knockoff of the Lord Jesus Christ.

[@mannySABEEEE]

@@thomasn3882 We are supposed to be talking about a science fiction movie 🤣🤫, calm down a little snowflake🦆🦆🐣.

[@Draliseth]

As soon as Sarah said that, my training from hours spent reading TV Tropes kicked in and I instantly knew the "surprise."

[@purefoldnz3070]

get in my uterus if you want to live!

[@mkinkade7103]

The movie defeats it’s own message. The theme was Jurassic Park. It will never matter who your protagonists are, A.I. will always find a way. And to think Linda Hamilton’s character had been hunting Terminators for 40 years and never realized that Skynet had been replaced by Legion is a plot hole that swallows the whole movie.

[@jameswatsonatheistgamer]

Like a supermassive black hole.

[@BrandonGavin_EDC]

You know what, I never even thought of that really since every other stupid thing basically turned my brain into mush watching this POS but yes, that is massive.

[@nerychristian]

How in the fuck does she even hunt Terminators? Every time a terminator goes back in time, it will change the timeline. So that means Sarah might night even be the same person every time. And why don't the terminators ever go back far enough in time to kill Sarah's parents before she is born?

[@jameswatsonatheistgamer]

@@nerychristian He vagina has a built in plasma cannon. It's called the clitinator 2000.

[@flatebo1]

It's pretty clearly implied that the Terminators Sarah has been killing were all ones sent by SkyNet "before" SkyNet was erased from the future. "Carl" knows that they were sent, but not necessarily how many or to what time, so he just detects and tracks the time distortions, then sends that info to Sarah. As Legion is using similar time travel tech, he also detects Legion's Terminators. But it's pretty clear that the Legion-Terminator is the first of its kind sent into the past. Doesn't really explain why "Carl" doesn't send Sarah after Resistance Chick, though.

[@MBRSims]

I'm not surprised that Cameron has a strange perspective on why Dark Fate failed. He's one of the wealthy, out of touch Hollywood elite - people who are insulated in a bubble of affluence and luxury that makes it impossible for them to understand what most of the audience want or expect. It's a big reason why so many films are terrible nowadays.

[@PeteTheGrouch]

_THIS._ It's sad, but true - these people literally don't live in the 'real' world... thus, how could they even BEGIN to understand what their audience truly want? Nothing but rich idiots...

[@GreenFalcon926]

Yeah...no. As many issues you can have with Jim, he is not out of touch at all. He understands his audience. His movies are widely popular, and he's made some of the greatest movies ever made. He's clearly not out of touch.

[@chrisdee1583]

@@GreenFalcon926 He's out of touch with his base audience as in the genre he started out.Now he makes dreadful love stories with shite dialogue and movies you play on the ps5.His last great work was True Lies.

[@PeteTheGrouch]

@@chrisdee1583 Well said.

[@nickmitsialis]

@@GreenFalcon926 Cameron said quite clearly he would not badmouth movies starring or directed by his friends, so it didn't harm the potential box office==that included blowing smoke.

[@bubasmollett8610]

John Connor was such an iconic character that the audience developed a relationship with him literally before he was born. But it turns out he can be easily replaced by a 5 foot illegal alien waitress .

[@Bateluer]

5 foot, I think you mean.

[@bubasmollett8610]

@@Bateluer fixed it. Thanks fren.

[@SelecaoOfMidas]

And he got fed buckshot in return. Just disgusting treatment of the character.

[@M-S_4321]

Nope. Watched 1 & 2. Saw 3 for nostalgia and the action but even then it was obvious that the story was initially planned to finish on 2. But then we just viewed it as greedy people grubbing for more cash +4 +5...

[@ramonandrajo6348]

Too bad she was something of a Mary Sue in T2.

[@peace-yv4qd]

In my lifetime, which spans many decades, I have never seen an industry thats willing to lose hundreds of millions of dollars on a losing proposition.

[@mudrakpatel7468]

Hi there, what is your age?

[@dogwklr]

Commies always lose money and destroy

[@davideassis87]

I believe the Terminator franchise should've been a trilogy, with a better version of Salvation as the third and final installment. We had the first movie about Kyle and Sarah, the second movie about Sarah and John, so the third movie should've been a prequel about Kyle and John fighting side by side in the future, with more details about the machines and the AI, new and unique Terminator models, and everything ending exactly like the beginning of the first movie (like they did with The Thing from 2011).

[@sootythunder3111]

It is its terminator 1, terminator 2 and the videogame terminator resistance

[@grzegorzflorek5623]

Yeah, people crapped on Salvation too much in my opinion. It was the only movie since Terminator 2 that was truly original and did something new. T3, Genisys, Dark Fate were just copy paste of T2 with shittier story and characters.

[@aledwilliams1366]

Salvation was better than T3 and I will die on this hill defending it.

[@froggy7570]

@@grzegorzflorek5623 I definitely have a new appreciation for Salvation. Just wanted to see more Terminators, especially the lumbering T-600's in the film.

[@jameswatsonatheistgamer]

Exactly. 1,2,4 are the best.

[@harbl99]

"Grace steals a man's clothes." Thereby setting the tone for the entire movie.

[@sole__doubt]

This comment should be pinned to the top.

[@cognitivedissidents4642]

They should’ve stuck with The Sarah Connor Chronicles, which was cancelled right when it was getting good.

[@Gamentropy]

The franchise ended with that show for me, and nothing has yet to convince me otherwise

[@xXxCatsnakexXx]

For me it ended with T2

[@michaelcongerjr8806]

If you buy the series, the second to the last episode is absent. Meaning certain character deaths and events are missed

[@troysgt]

That’s also a good point, turning that into a longer series, or even a fleshed out movie would have done the legacy justice. One great story element of that show was the growing general John Connor learning to make allies with the machines who were not actually trying to obliterate humanity. A very realistic approach to the situation of each robot being an AI vs a hive mind controlling each drone.

[@troysgt]

@@michaelcongerjr8806 crap, can you buy it somewhere with all the episodes? What version is missing that episode?

[@jamesgoss1860]

If Arnold should not have been in the movie (as Cameron said), and audiences won't accept a Terminator movie without Arnold (as Cameron also said), then maybe that's the sign to STOP MAKING TERMINATOR MOVIES. Audiences have been saying this since 2003.

[@SommersetStriker]

James Cameron no longer has any credibility. He made some truly great films in the past, but he's just a hack now.

[@avoiceup3222]

Yeah I'm not an avatar fan and I'm sure it will match Maverick in the box office but I hope it doesn't

[@crazyralph6386]

Yep, a woke hack at that

[@beauwalker9820]

He said masculinity is a "disease," yet judging by this movie wants women to become masculine. That doesn't make sense...

[@SommersetStriker]

@@beauwalker9820 Leftism is a hell of a drug ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

[@MrHalo087]

Agreed.

[@IronDragon-2143]

Replacing John Connor with Danny is the movie equivalent of stolen valor

[@thomasn3882]

Meanwhile, the entire concept of John Connor is a deliberate stolen Savior-hood. They even gave him the same initials as Jesus Christ. Isn't that clever....

[@IronDragon-2143]

@@thomasn3882 Are you sure that's stolen or is that meant to be an allergy? Cause remember Aslan is an Allegory for Jesus Christ in Chronicles of Narnia too

[@sole__doubt]

Replacing SWMs with women who upon first glance appear to be SWMs. You cant make this stuff up.

[@Streeknine]

The original Terminator gained popularity because of Arnold's character was a great villain and the story was fascinating. The 2nd was even better because you had Arnold return as a strong ally against the T-1000 and again another good story arc. That a machine could learn to see the good in humanity. Dark Fate was just another Terminator 2 redux to replace John Conner, the character we knew to be the savior of humanity with a Female. Now, how many of these new films who replace the Hero with a female actually succeed? Nobody wants their favorite characters tore down so that some film maker can make another movie so that a female can take over the franchise. Make a new franchise, don't tear down a good one.

[@danbaumann8273]

The old ones are like a pebble in their shoe for these people.

[@beauwalker9820]

People need to understand, the reason people hate this modern trope, isn't because they "don't want any female heroes to exist," or "hate women." Imagine if Ripley was killed off in the beginning of a new "Alien" movie, and then suddenly replaced by some new, young, short, skinny male character who is treated as perfect, everyone likes them, and hailed as the new superior hero. It would still be cringe regardless. And the idea that in order to make a "good female hero," is to tear down others to build her up, give her the "sloppy seconds" replacement role of a famous male character, and/or make her act/look like a male character (as if femininity can't be powerfull) is not empowering nor respectful to the female gender either. It's insulting, and makes it seem like "women need to be men, or need the role of a man, instead of her own unique role, because men are more powerful" and such, is contradicting their own feminism message. It's fake-feminism, and demonizes feminity rather then celebrate it.

[@Daemonarch2k6]

I'm pretty sure, if arnold would not be in dark fate, that movie would have bombed even harder.

[@J.J.Jameson_of_Daily_Bugle]

Terminator 2 was amazing not only because they made it bigger and better, but because it was natural continuation of the first movie. James Cameron said that the already had rough vision of where the sequel for the movie would go if first movie becomes success. That's the difference between his movies and all other sequels, which were made simply because someone at the time had the rights to it. If you look history of who actually had the rights to IP, you'll see it's super random, from super market owners to basketball players, all just wanting to make Terminator movie to cash in, not because of any artistic merit and natural continuation of the series. This why we have been getting rehash of first two movies for like last 30 years. It's the same thing that happen to Disney's Star Wars trilogy, there was no actual series direction for those movies, they just made it up as they went along, which was very clear from tonal and narrative disconnect between Ep 7, Ep8 and Ep9, and Ep9 felt like JJ Abrams was just trying to clean up the mess Rian Johnson made. I might be crucified here, but I think Rian is solid director, he's good at satire, but Star Wars is not where you do that, considering that entire franchise always took itself seriously (yeah, it had sense of adventure and fun, but it was largely always serious in narrative), and especially that first movie in new trilogy set itself up as serious. It's complete 180 in tonal shift and he completely destroyed all arc setups for every character. The complete lack of communication between KK, him and JJ.A is very obvious.

[@mikecinema7443]

The first Matrix works as a great sequel to T2. Years after the events of T2, the robots develop a new strategy and eventually humans lost, machines won.

[@casperryborg4869]

And then after that, the Teletubbies take over, killing every animal in the ocean!

[@beingsshepherd]

Curious that both films rely on interminable futile violence.

[@beingsshepherd]

@druidofscosglen2868 I was alluding to the creative premise rather than the protagonist's response to a lethal pursuit. By contrast there's no ass-kicking in Plato's famous _allegory of the cave._

[@chrisricks6363]

They were written by the same person

[@ahdvd]

The problem was the opening. Killing John Connor basically kills off hope for the future. Doesn’t matter that you create a new replacement hero for the future, they literally killed the personification of hope for the human race, and never recovers. Plus a lot of the issues you mentioned, but that opener as like starting a route canal with a kick in the teeth.

[@BertoxolusThePuzzled]

@@marvinmallette6795 So... a shittier Bulma copy? That's STILL not a good storyline...

[@ahdvd]

@@marvinmallette6795 Genisys took John AFTER he had defeated Skynet and turned him evil and sent him back. Terminator Salvation had an alternate ending where John Connor dies from his injuries and they take john's face and put it over marcus' body to keep the resistance alive and the ruse that Connor is still leading it, and test audiences absolutely balked at it. It would be a great twist if it turned out someone in the future who saves humanity just calls themselves John Connor and pretends to be him so that if someone goes back in time to kill him they kill someone else and won't stop them saving humanity, but they wouldn't do that because they would realise people wouldn't buy it. Killing John Off, especially in the opening like that was like a big middle finger to the audience.

[@ramonandrajo6348]

@@marvinmallette6795 Genesys is crap and it doesn't count.

[@ramonandrajo6348]

@@marvinmallette6795 Genisys doesn't count, so no.

[@ahdvd]

@@marvinmallette6795 If that were true it wouldn't have done so poorly at the box office.

[@MegaJetty1]

Not only does Dark Fate Sarah not mention Reese, she narrates that SHE stopped Judgment Day, completely ignoring John, Miles Dyson and the Terminator's involvement.

[@jhoughjr1]

I saw T2 in the theater opening week. Those were the days

[@thomasn3882]

Exactly. And you (along with everyone else) are conflating your own life with a movie that came out at a certain time. You are remembering the good old days in your own life, and you are incorrectly thinking that the movie was some sort of classic.

[@chrisdee1583]

@@thomasn3882 It is a classic you're talking 💩pal 👍

[@stevenscott2136]

@@thomasn3882 Watched it again a few months ago -- still good, 31 years later. And my life was, let's say "less than ideal", in 1991, so that "nostalgia" argument doesn't fly in my case.

[@Daemonarch2k6]

Almost died on salted popcorn in the beginning of the 90s, and this movie is to blame. RIP Terminator franchise

[@noneyabidness9644]

As did I. It was a fantastic experience. To see the franchise fall so far, is just pitiful.

[@whos-the-stiff]

The scene where the diversity hire comes out as the strong leader in the future was hilarious, she was so tiny and insignificant, but those corn rows in her hair made her badass...apparently. More Police Academy Hicks than Aliens Hicks.

[@ricardokojin7]

I'll be honest here...I have met too many "strong female leaders" that have much more of a "HR department" personality than a "leader skillset"....a lot of them seem like the result of trying to fit a square into a round box.

[@jameswatsonatheistgamer]

She belongs in a film with Tim monster.

[@sillypuppy5940]

That box she's standing on is a t-1000

[@georgestauber2636]

Who would've thought that insulting your fans might make a film flop.

[@euestiveemcaboverde]

I was laughing in that scene

[@Kemot300]

I have a better question: "How did someone read the script and still give their approval?"

[@Skeletal33]

Tons of people read the script ok’d it. Executives, producers, actors, etc

[@gimzod76]

In the words of John Conner from terminator resistance. The actual terminator three. " I always belive the future not set. There no fate but what we make for ourselves. You do have the power to change it and protect the ones you care about."

[@garysmith3037]

Apparently, the new Terminator was an idiot. While disguised as her father, it could have walked right up to her, given her a hug, then shredded her by turning its body into spikes and knives...but it decided to pull out a gun and try to shoot her from a distance. I mean, what's the point of a shapeshifting assassin that can perfectly mimic people if it is impatient and incompetent? It could have even waited until she got home, it wasn't in danger of losing her. Also, the killing John thing. The 1st movie said they sent one Terminator back in a last minute and desperate attempt to win, John sent back one human to stop it. The 2nd movie said "oops, Skynet sent back two Terminators, and that was kind of believable and we went with it. Now we are to believe that they missed a third one (and later even more) that was also sent to kill young John. That is too much of a stretch, and completely garbage writing.

[@stopthephilosophicalzombie9017]

Yeah and in many instances when a gun could have done the job he turned his arms into blades instead. The movie was full of dumb shit like that.

[@noblemagi]

How can today's Hollywood destroy your favorite IP. Let's count the ways.

[@brettbeyer73]

From Terminator 1 to T2, we get to see Sarah Connor go from meh to amazing, not because she was born that way, but our of necessity. It instills the idea that the viewer could and would step up, just like Sarah Connor did.

[@n3r0wolfe]

thats easy.. they killed john connor in the first 10 minutes.. the whole dang series revolves around john... until now

[@harbl99]

"Whiboy been replaced, esse. Eets a squat goblina future now."

[@gold9ja]

💯👏🏾

[@the98themperoroftheholybri33]

The problem with all new Terminators is they removed the horror aspect of it, it's not an action story, it's about a nearly unstoppable killing machine doing anything and killing anyone in order to kill the protagonist, it's essentially a horror monster movie, even in Terminator 2 which is more action orientated but still kept that horror aspect

[@FatNorthernBigot]

I'm guessing I'm the only one who liked T3. It could never match the expectations placed on it, but it was a fun diversion.

[@Stevenirons]

Nope, I saw it 3 times in the theatre loved it and still do

[@geert574]

It has Claire Danes 🤤 what a smart lady way too smart for acting

[@piperian3962]

It sure looks good in hindsight.

[@FatNorthernBigot]

If we only knew what was coming, we'd view it as a cinematic masterpiece 😁

[@DocMicrowave]

Agreed. It was no where near the level of T1 and T2. But it certainly beats T:DF. As you said, it as a fun diversion.

[@TheOneAndOnlyDon]

This is review is a very accurate and critical analysis about the Terminator's saga downfall. Well done.

[@Gameprojordan]

Anything man can do, woman can do better!!111!!one!!!1!1!eleven!1

[@CousinCreepy]

They made Arnie into the Termineighbor! "Come with me if you want a bratwurst"

[@clintmatthews3500]

James Cameron is the Vince McMahon of filmmaking. He used to be a mad genius, but now he’s just a madman.

[@scottieman2]

The first two are amazing. Part 3 not as good but still enjoying it. 4 was ambitious but decent. Genesis and Dark Fate could have never happened. Just me.

[@JamesRDavenport]

I have to say, despite it being kind of meh, I liked Nick Stahl's Connor. You could see him being the scion of Kyle and Sarah, and being a bit of a doofus because he thought the war was over. It's just, T3 wasn't necessary.

[@KellyStarks]

Seriously? He thought Arnold and Linda were the weak points? Not the work? Not that the two new female characters were cringe bad? Not that they kill off John Connor and have Sara rant anti female mother etc crap? Or even that the story was REALLY badly written? Hell Arnold as the terminator explaining his life, as intense about the proper curtains for a little girl as it would be about a tactical target, was the best part of the movie! The most memorable line in it was him explaining why he had so many lines. Ending with his, “..and we are in Texas.” Agree a movie focused on evolved older Arnold Terminator would be much better. I liked a lot of the plot arc twists in the TV show Terminator the Sara Connor chronicles.

[@RightNowMan]

Excellent analysis! Thank you for standing up.

[@ukmediawarrior]

Eloquently put as always Dave. And as I was listening it struck me the same argument could be made for Prey, the recent Predator movie. Historically the Plains Indians protected their women, keeping them at home while the men went out to hunt and fight, you know the dangerous life threatening jobs. Why? Because they knew the future of the tribe depended on the women staying alive to bear warriors to protect the tribe. But the women had important work too, they were the healers, food gathers, they made the weapons the men fought with, they set up and broke down the camp if they had to move. But Prey, instead, does exactly what Dave says here, they make the female protagonist change from her set path of being a woman in the tribe to being instead a male warrior in the tribe. Going again centuries of tradition for no reason other than, and I believe she actually says this in the movie, to prove she is better than the men.

[@nerychristian]

I think she said something to the effect of "I want to hunt because the men tell me I can't do it" .

[@ukmediawarrior]

@@nerychristian Yep, something along those lines, lol. These studios will never learn.

[@OneGaurdian]

Though Predator movies, though, have never had a constant protagonist throughout the franchise, like Terminator. So you can't say that her character stomp on the legacy of any past ones from the other movies.

[@ukmediawarrior]

@@OneGaurdian.... um, no ... but that has nothing to do with my comment, lol.

[@berlin990]

👏 Thank you, as a currently pregnant woman I couldn’t agree more. But do you never ask yourself what the source of all this wokeness is? It definitely isn’t something that just occurred naturally, I’ll give you a hint: The Frankfurt School.

[@NV..V]

Boooooom.

[@cybergothika6906]

Even Sarah Connor Chronicles series did it 99,9% better. Establishing a present-day war since the hellish future never happened, but the present-day was infested by Terminators. It had something like Dark Fate tried to feed from, the series had this secret backup sent to the past in case the prototypes failed. I remember some machines converted to human cause, while the others kept with the program (or not, but still helped the machines). Sarah overtook the central character to the "new future" very naturally, nothing woke, while John got outdated. He got over-protected (having to prove to his mighty mother he's ready even in a different future, eventually he finally finds his leadership) Sounds hard but for me it is very simple. Dark Fate failed because it simply wasn't natural at that. We always had a strong female character in the first two movies and series, why force crazy shit? This is not helping my cause, women or lgbt etc. because it is cringe and undermining the struggle.

[@red_cosplay]

'Even'? It was fucking good

[@joban4963]

She has to fully extend her arm to reach the rifle lmao

[@eeL_rM]

16:20 Correction: Perhaps now films are being produced to ENCOURAGE this tragic reality.

[@KondorDCS]

Why TDF failed?....They killed John Connor to replace him with Jane Connor. What's more to say? I didn't even finish watching this shit....when it became obvious that scared little girl will become the future Jane Connor, I stopped watching and deleted the film.

[@Coproquim]

*Juanita Connor

[@joscar062]

@@Coproquim T8 Juanita 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣

[@halohalo86]

As a woman, I understand in movies when female protagonists become tough and strong out of necessity in their situation, like the T2 version of Sarah Connor, but they don't lose their feminine nurturing qualities. I feel this also describes me in a way. But I'm only forced to be strong and independent during though times when there is no strong and brave man that can help me, and I really wish for society to bring back the strong, brave, heroic virtuous men! But no, now society wants women to do and handle everything ourselves.

[@avoiceup3222]

It's about eliminating intimacy and thus life itself. Dark fate alright lol

[@rin7564]

I wholeheartedly agree, as a woman, Hollywood is desperately trying to erase me. We are now only called "birthing people"

[@mercenaryknight5419]

Would love to see you review Terminator Salvation (2009). That was a good entry and an underrated film. Salvation SHOULD have been Terminator 3, focusing on the Future War. It built on the foundation Cameron had established, respected the lore, and was not a cheap effortless retread of Judgement Day like Dark Fate, Genisys, and Rise Of The Machines were.

[@thunberbolttwo3953]

At least with Rise of the Machines we get to see judgement day.

[@davyboy9397]

Agreed. Salvation is a great Sci-fi film and the 3rd best Terminator film

[@thunberbolttwo3953]

@@davyboy9397 I like Salvation it shows the begining of the war with the machines. The next terminator movie should have comtinued from salvation.

[@creatorsfreedom6734]

@@thunberbolttwo3953 Should have ? , the next terminator film should continue were salvation lead off too - pew pew laser's

[@ramonandrajo6348]

Nope. T3 IS the real T3; try again, fanboy. XD

[@nicodemusserpico77]

Perfectly put!!! While "A lone wolf makes easy prey," a lone feline is Absolutely f*cked!

[@LordBaktor]

You kinda made me see the original ending of T2 in a different light. I always preferred the one we got, darker but with a hint of hope instead of the cheesy "everything turned out alright" one, but seeing the original one as closure for Sarah makes it nicer.

[@rfletch62]

Thanking my lucky stars that I ended the franchise at T2. Great insights, Dave!

[@JackTorrance333]

Never saw the others either. Not one of them. Apparently I missed nothing.

[@jdogg448]

T3 is ok if you go into expecting dumb fun rather than anything near the previous 2.

[@moc9893]

Its funny how we keep hearing about toxic masculinity when it comes to men but when women do it it's celebrated

[@leonardodavi2695]

When Dani in a flashback/flashforward scene says "Fuck fate" my reaction was not "Oh, she's badass! I'm gonna follow her!". It was more akin to Sheldon Cooper's reaction to Bernardette trying to scold him "She's so tiny. It's funny when she's mad."

[@JamesRDavenport]

It's like who's the 5 year old Mexican girl going as Danny Trejo for Halloween?

[@och70]

Why? Because it sucked. Why? Because it retconned everything after T2 in the first five minutes of the movie, by killing John Connor.

[@Brandon-uq4mt]

Wasn't it the whole point of Kyle coming back to save Sarah was that John showed a picture of his mom to Kyle and told him stories about how she was strong and brave and that was the reason he volunteered to go back and save her and to finally meet the legend of Sarah.

[@Newwaver2007]

It kinda sucks finding out in the terminator 2 movie the protecting of john connor was all for nothing. I guess after that scene it’s like : Well, that’s it then. 🙃 that’s the end.

[@jamie_ghost.johnson]

What I would’ve done with Dark Fate, is making Dani the mother of Kyle Reece. The movie doesn’t have to take place in the modern day, the movie can take place a couple of years before Kyle could be born. The movie could recycle back and John can still exist, follow same timeline and still defeat Skynet.

[@Sammy.H.Redwood]

They’re probably more interesting than this garbage.

[@cheeveka3]

That “gender studies course” was funniest thing I heard in this video 🤣🤣🤣 16:13

[@DocMicrowave]

Same here. Got a good chuckle out of that. Not just because it was funny, but because there is truth to it. Schools are really screwing up this generation.

[@lilmoeszyslak4810]

Only thing missing was the blue hair 🤣🤣

[@DocMicrowave]

@@lilmoeszyslak4810 Yeah, they can't stand blending in.

[@cheeveka3]

@@lilmoeszyslak4810 can’t forget about the rainbows 🤣🤣🤣

[@leskrapps7021]

Dave Cullen is a total badass

[@KaelanSwan]

I love that in retrospec, Salvation wasn't that bad.

[@jvazquez5468]

Terminator: Dark Fate. Took everything about what made T2 so amazing and "subverted expectations", so the audience returned the favor and subverted Hollywoke's expectations by not going to see it.

[@Vain737]

How is Carl, the Skynet Terminator, able to predict where and when Legion Terminators will arrive from the new future? A future that Carl knows nothing about?

[@sasamisa1806]

Don't think! Just consume product, then get excited for next product! (*_*)

[@mynameisroman]

John Conner was hacking an ATM as a kid. he already had talent... what did she have? nothing to begin with.

[@chrisdee1583]

Bet she was great at making Rat Burritos though 😂👍

[@AllenSymonds]

Thank you! This is the message we need to pass on to the next generation!

[@ninjaturtlefan2003]

1:50 This is what Hollywood has done for decades. They have a “script” as to what they should say about a movies failure. Instead of owning up and saying “You know what the direction sucked, the writing sucked, etc.” they give out some circumstancial reason. “Oh the actors were too old, I guess audiences just aren’t ready for such & such, nobody was interested in this genre anymore.” It can never be that they just made a sub par movie. That’s fine, not every single one can be bangers.

[@pigglypoof]

I realize how much our values evolve as we get older. The legacy we leave behind for our future generations becomes more of a priority. It’s not so much what I can get from life but rather what we can give to future lives. Dark Fate is well titled, a selfish portrait where you are the center and the future

[@beauwalker9820]

And these selfish messages we send the future generation, makes me worry of our future.

[@kisamebalusong4980]

Spartan, for example, respected their women. Slavers they were but they always keep their women in high regard because it takes a spartan women to raise a spartan.

[@andrewdowell6474]

I blame Jennifer Lawrence. There were no women in action roles until she came along. Now all the women are trying to be men.

[@TaliaIGhul]

After what James Cameron did to his own franchise, Terminator, it gives me a little comfort that Avatar 2 is flopping.

[@joesomebody3365]

Really the only place the series had left to explore was the future war aspect, which we got a brief scene of in genesis but was way too short. I also wouldn't have minded a T-800 ending up being a father figure like was hinted at in T2, and we saw a tiny bit of in genesis, but again those ideas weren't explored much. Most of the problems with the new movies is that they just rehashed the first two terminator movies without adding much of significance.

[@comyxcon4gaming860]

Or maybe the new Terminator films would've been significant had they tried to do something original, fresh, and unique.

[@bushmaster0131]

Who the hell was the weapons instructor on set? The way she held that shotgun would have dislocated her shoulder after the first shell. Smh.

[@bare_bear_hands]

That one scene where John gets terminated... If I saw that scene I'd discard the rest of the series automatically as it breaks the canon and entire logic of the movies.

[@ronhaefner7833]

Ahhhh. The Cullen Cut! Brilliant Dave, brilliant.

[@geraldthompson4633]

Linda and Arnold were the cinematic equivalent of clickbait for this rolling train wreck

[@Gedi2211]

The franchise ended with Terminator 2: Judgment Day. James Cameron and William Wisher wrote the script with the intention of leaving no option for a sequel. Turns out their ending wasn't good enough to prevent more movies from being made. I like to pretend those movies never happened. They are not in my headcanon.

[@Buford_T_Justice1]

James Cameron is out of his mind and completely out of touch. Hubris is a hell if a drug.

[@yw1971]

7:43 - Not just that: It's a new common trait that can be seen in TV shows & movies - delaying the explanation as much as possible, to make it into Big surprise.

[@chrishunter8305]

The game released a few weeks after Dark Fate...Terminator Resistance was leagues above the movie, and felt like a decent thirt instalment...plus had a freaking awesome soundtrack.

[@leejohnstone4663]

The last box office hit Linda Hamilton had was Dante's Peak back in 1995 and Arnold Schwarzenegger has hardly lit up the box office since his movie come back

[@chrisdee1583]

The Has-Beenators.

[@willowfalls7528]

Soon as I heard about the John Connor thing, I pretty much bailed on this one, so to this day, I still haven't seen Dark Flop. Very much doubt that I will at this point. Also, could have sworn I detected a Pale Blue Dot reference mixed in here somewhere. Might have just been my imagination, though.

[@TekkLuthor]

She's 5 foot fucking 1... no wonder I kept laughing at her

[@strangeluck]

Imo, T3 contributed greatly to the franchise and doesn't deserved to be lumped with the movies that followed. First it closed the time travel paradox introduced by T2. If T3 didn't fix things T1 couldn't happen. Second, it tells the story of Kate Brewster, and her rising from animal vet to 2nd in command of the resistance. I really liked her story arc. T3 isn't as strong as T2, but I really liked it.

[@chidioko]

Dave, Sir. How can we celebrate femininity when we we're too terrified to say what a woman is when asked in public?

[@newhorizons1]

I agree the Terminator ended at the second movie. I haven't bothered watching any of the other Terminator movies after that.

[@CAST13L]

James said he could not decline Arnold from being in a movie because they are friends for 40 years. Now he is saying that having Arnold was the problem... Just wow. Of an "age and wisdom" - it's true that sometimes it's just age.

[@aimlessgamer6187]

This movie died with John Connor.

[@thomaskynes5825]

It's ESG scores pushed by black rock. The companies must aim for a high credit rating.

[@wolfpacksix]

Boom. Lots of truth-bombs and thought-grenades set off in this, especially towards the end. Well done, sir!

[@jamesabernethy7896]

I've seen a few videos of yours and generally like them and have now subscribed. A really passionate well structured piece from you. i've watched a few videos like this critiquing modern movies / writers but this one was pretty succinct. Great stuff.

[@symon3304]

Sounds like he threw the original stars under a bus to save face.

[@IzzyTheEditor]

Every single thing you said in this video, is the exact reason I followed this channel so long ago. 🤘👍

[@christopherquinn5899]

The Terminator was arguably a science fiction film, although it had strong action elements, and films that might have been science fiction have subsequently developed into the action films we see today. True science fiction films are almost non-existent now, they don't really deal with thoughtful themes and situations, or strange ideas - except for woke messaging - they seem to exist to provide a fantasy framework for action, stunts, gratuitous violence and explosions.

[@andycopeland7051]

Man that was an incredible argument you made. I think you're absolutely correct.

[@sterling7]

Even without killing off John and the ongoing stupidity of "go to this movie that hates you or we'll accuse you of sexism", "Terminator" had long ago degenerated from any kind of even tenuously plausible storyline to a big game of "Nuh-uh" "Uh-huh". "I send back a machine to kill your leader's mother!" "Well, I send back our leader's father to protect her!" "Well, I send back a more advanced machine to kill your leader as a boy!" "Well, I send back a reprogrammed machine to protect him!" "Well, I send back an even more advanced machine to kill him as an adult!" "Well, I send back another reprogrammed machine to protect him!" "...How many of those do you have?" "How many advanced versions of the machine do *you* have? And why didn't you send one of those, first?" "Shut up. Well, uh, I... turn a human being into a machine, and send him after the resistance!" "...And for some reason, you gave him all the killer-machine strengths, but no way of actually controlling him." "Nuts. Uh... Nanomachines! I take over your leader with nanomachines!" "Again, why didn't you do that first... 'Kay, fine, *another* reprogrammed machine." "A different version of me sends back a machine that kills your leader as a boy! No takebacks!" "Fine! I send back another part-machine to protect a new leader!" "I send back a machine... *before* I even discover time-travel technology!" "How does that make any sense?" "Excuse me? When did we set rules saying this had to make any sense?" "Okay, I send back a purple android unicorn with the magic of love..."

[@whatduck943]

How did you get into the pitch meeting??

[@basimaziz]

Well said Mr. Cullen, well said. Couldn't have worded it better myself~.

[@scottritchot4613]

well said Dave, never agreed with a critique and analysis of a movie so much as this.

[@Icem4n84]

The game Terminator Resistance should've been the third movie!

[@marcwolfleach]

I like to know how a terminator from a complete different timeline would know where terminators will appear and who they will target

[@cpob2013]

I think terminator 3 added plenty. It's the weakest of the three and is a little too silly but adding in Kate Brewster and the military connection, the virus attack, and the bomb shelter twist was a great way to end the series. Judgement day happened, it really was inevitable and by happening, Reese and the other terminators are able to go back in time in the first place. It brings it full circle. Adding in Kate as his future wife, and by extention connecting John to her general father in charge of developing skynet, helps explain why John defeats skynet in the first place. It does "downgrade" him but it takes him from "fallout jesus" to a more realistic "first among many". He doesn't single handedly save the world, he has his wife's support, her father's insight, his mother's training, and later even their children take up the cause. I just think 3 should be included on the right side of the line that's drawn between a coherent terminator franchise and the mess it is today.

[@Animanji]

Completely agree. Terminator 3 is the best of all the sequels after 2.

[@TKFKU]

The reason those movies failed is quite simple really. They failed because there will only ever be two Terminator movies, and people know it. Hollywood "people" clearly are not people though.

[@timaboon]

The most interesting question that No one asked is: how the FFFF did Arnolds terminator found Sara and John in freaking post revolution Guatemala. How did they continue to send those freaking terminators if we established that SkyNet was over. If it was over, were the old Terminator came from??? They prevented that future. It was a classic chicken and egg loop that was closed in the second movie. Terminators 3,4 and 5, were just silly. But this ....this is really new level of stupid.

[@MaynardCrow]

Terminator: Dank Fart was doomed from the start.

[@davenathan2002]

Genysis was rubbish, but at least I didn't get the impression that the filmmakers despised the franchise and its fans. I can't say the same for Dark Fate.

[@scottieman2]

They at least tried to be different.

[@Coproquim]

And it had Matt Smith playing a timelord😂