WHY THE MARVELS FLOPPED AT THE BOX OFFICE | Double Toasted

[@coreylucas5346]

Martin is so right...women are into the X-Men. And the most iconic Marvel women are from that team.

[@latishabuckner8231]

Absolutely! I want to see Storm, Rogue, and Jean Grey, characters I know more about. Unfortunately I haven't seen enough of Captain Marvel and what I have seen is just meh 😮‍💨

[@blackmcbain3145]

What we do know is that Captain marvel was a big bitch in x men 😂

[@mudbutt234]

Olivia Munn was a waste as Psylocke. She looked good in that costume :p

[@robertwild9447]

​@@mudbutt234Perfect casting, great costume, and she got nothing to do.

[@latishabuckner8231]

@@mudbutt234 now that's a female character I know nothing about, but would love to see more of. She was badass and her power was cool.

[@Don.M.]

As an audience, we really shouldn’t start settling for mediocre movies. We ALL benefit from better art and that’s all we can really ask for.

[@mikayelalikhanyan1587]

so dija watch any marvel?

[@mr.hostetter855]

too late...

[@LembeckIsStaying]

​@@mikayelalikhanyan1587 👆🏾 Guys like this is why it'll never get better.

[@Scantronacon]

​@@mikayelalikhanyan1587whats the point in asking that?? Not every marvel movie is 10/10. SOme of them like this movie are mid asf like the Captain Marvel movie and Multiverse of Madness

[@ericsmusic5927]

These mediocre movies ARE BOMBINB, no one is settling you dummy

[@Omar-wq9dz]

Audiences are tired of underwhelming movies. That’s what causes the box office to drop

[@chasehedges6775]

THIS!

[@michaelstrong5383]

To quote Mr. Incredible, "They keep creating new ways to celebrate mediocrity."

[@maskedman5657]

Some movies can be mediocre all day tho and still get box office success. Like Jurassic Park or Fast and the Furious

[@CocainBuzz]

Tbh expectations are becoming too high every time MCU gets a "big event movie" like Avengers or even Civil War

[@spicymemes7458]

Other than Guardians and Loki, I think everything else was just mid.

[@Vaajraath]

You've also still got the usual suspects blaming "toxic men" for this flopping, even though men were the majority of people who actually went to see this. This was a movie made by women for women, but most women said no thanks. They turned up for Barbie. They turned up for Taylor Swift, but they didn't turn up for this.

[@JROB447]

You still have the usual suspects also calling this movie woke. Two end of the spectrum bud

[@Vaajraath]

@@JROB447 In an ironic twist, the hate watchers actually helped to contribute to the box office more than the people this was marketed to who barely showed up at all.🤷

[@Spigan818]

​@@JROB447bro, the fact that Nia Decosta was hired for this film was because of her race and gender. She wrote this movie with the help of two other women and between the three of them, couldn't even remember how their own power switching gimmick worked throughout the film. Disney having a habit of hiring people based on their demographic more than their compatibility with the property is woke.

[@KodachiC]

I'm pretty sure most have written those "toxic men" off.

[@donnieforbes7820]

Shocker, most woman like feminine entertainment.

[@ZAYA.21]

The problem with marvel is that they don’t have quality they have quantity Thanks for the likes

[@UniqueLove32]

Im still mad how horribly they did She Hulk an actual STRONG FEMALE CHARACTER! Disney has no idea what to do with this franchise 😡🐀🔥💵

[@AlphariusDominatus]

What her twerking with Megan Stallion didn't hit a chord. Move your soul

[@corc1992]

I mean, they knew what they wanted to do with the MCU. They wanted to use it to get people on Disney+ and stay subscribed to it. They make probably the most money off of subscription fees than they do movie screenings in theatres.

[@thearchivist250]

Best case for She-Hulk was Ally McBeal with a little super hero. A quirky, fun workplace comedy, and She-Hulk occasionally smashes something . Instead, it turned into a boring, lecturing mess.

[@KodachiC]

​@TheGOAT-hj6slWell, they are woke, so I wonder why you are even here.

[@ajscrewu]

This channel said she hulk is “marvel at its best” 0 credibility

[@ziggy8253]

The MCU forgot about storytelling. That’s it.

[@thechefsteffon9173]

💯💯😩

[@JayPalOfficial]

Facts!

[@ApexPunisherX]

That's not it. They're also way too woke and that's never a good sign.

[@JayPalOfficial]

@@ApexPunisherX That too!!

[@JamesASharp]

EXACTLY!! 💯 But, Disney and Double Toasted wants to blame other factors by saying words like, "Superhero Fatigue."

[@EricTheRed06]

The Ms. Marvel show didnt hit with everyone. Wandavision show didnt hit with everyone. The first Captain Marvel didnt hit with everyone. Combine the three together and you have a movie alot of people weren't going to check out for one reason or another.

[@Leo6933]

I thought the first Marvel movie was pretty good. 🤷🏽‍♂️

[@MrBazBake]

Even a mediocre Marvel movie sells 20 million tickets. No Disney Plus MCU show has ever had more than maybe one or two million viewers.

[@JROB447]

$1 billion dollar film but didn’t hit with everyone?

[@alwaysxnever]

​@@JROB447making money doesn't equal good. Plus it was sandwiches between The tentpole Avengers films.

[@hawkeyemihawkgettingmoneylord]

​@@JROB447this very video is about how the second movies faild so hard clearly the first movie did so well not because of its own but because of the brand. Its really obvious to see it dude improve your critical thinking. And honestly bro your acting like people were singing their praise about that movie nobody put that movie in their top 5 favorite Marvel movies. Most people thought it was ok at best.

[@capsjukebox]

They keep hiring writers who do not know or care about these characters and directors who do not know or care. The reason the first two Raimi Spider-Man films worked is because he knew and loved the comics. The third ate shit bc the other producers and studio jumped in wanting to add villains to what was supposed to be a Spidey vs Sandman movie.

[@youngrootv]

I feel bad for Iman Vellani because she’s great and genuinely plays a great Kamala Khan. I hope that she gets a lot more roles in the future!

[@RS-kt6bo]

You should feel bad for human beings that are actually suffering in the world, instead of some useless actor no one's gives af about.

[@notmephisto1375]

​@@RS-kt6bothis a movie review channel bro.

[@youngrootv]

@@RS-kt6bo you know you can care for multiple things in life, right? You probably never even donated to a charity in your life or done anything to actually help people bruh.

[@Katara0403]

​@@RS-kt6boHave you ever thought people can do both or is that new concept for you?

[@RS-kt6bo]

@@Katara0403 yeah people can swing either way too and soyboys like you usually do. That's definitely not for me and the concept is definitely new 😉

[@IllegalPriest]

I love how Martin is such a big comic geek. I would love comic reviews from him.

[@Caine187]

I forget the channel but theres one where he talks comics with two other people and he really shows his knowledge. Ill go dig it for you Edit: youtube.com/@ScreenFanatic?si=_whllaZzDxFQqPMP

[@IllegalPriest]

@@Caine187 thanks dude!

[@JM-gs5oc]

​@TheGOAT-hj6slwhen was this?

[@rasenganmaster101]

@TheGOAT-hj6sl love when people just remove context to purposefully make a statement sound fucked up

[@MindDaggerEX]

I still stand by my thought process that Disney/Marvel got too greedy and too ambitious to realize that you had to let this 10-year movie event have its long rest. Let the audience reminisce and miss it organically, while Kevin Feige and company should've taken their time and to properly plan out future storylines, character presentations and tie-ins and any potential big events. They did it before. And with the experience they've acquired, it should have been a far easier process. Countless lore to extrapolate from and make coherent live-action adaptations is there to not fuck it up so egregiously. Depending on who you ask, the term 'superhero fatigue' can be a legitimate reason and/or a major cop-out to excuse bad decisions. Good stories and good characters will bring the audience. Most people don't hate diversity, unlike many journalists and corporate blowhards want to make us believe. The problems that afflict Disney/Marvel are the willful disregard of good storytelling to make a less-than-subtle sociopolitical statement and the terrible way they are marketing their products. They're not making it engaging, and they opt for being too preachy and acting narcissistic.

[@donovanbradford8231]

One of the other big issues is Disney across the board film wise has lost the audience's confidence, where average movie goers won't see Disney, Marvel, Pixar, or Lucasfilm and just expect it to be, they'll expect it to be bad. Until Disney as a whole can change that general audience mindset it won't change and company is in way of doing that anytime soon.

[@alwaysxnever]

Well said OP. They should have taken a beat to hammer out their plans and allow people to miss them. But nope . Had Disney+ money to make.

[@triggerfairy4070]

They got lazy

[@qmulus1]

They should have focused on ground level character driven stories for Phase 4.

[@spicymemes7458]

18:31 Martin really nailed it. If Disney really wanted to appeal to women, they should have appealed to X-Men. Its the same reason why Gen V was so successful as well.

[@Fee76Lawlus]

That makes too much sense, are you crazy?

[@BaithNa]

Instead of getting to the characters that people want to see in the X-Men, Marvel has been stalling since Endgame with All New - All Different Marvel characters.

[@bigpictureguys8415]

Yep

[@MrConredsX]

Gen V is succesfull? LMAO

[@spritedan6672]

Why isn’t Martin sitting in his regular seat this feels weird

[@enr9074]

exactly what i was thinking

[@gcolbyp]

Because he just got back from London last night and came by when they were doing the show

[@advillan]

This feels like Martin is being replaced

[@pastoryoda2789]

Martin was feeling on that young boy’s thigh while this whole review was being filmed.

[@478Johnnyboy]

11:40 Same goes for disney too. They wanted to compete in the streaming world SO BADLY. They pumped out a ton of shows all with various quality and now they are crying that they made too much….whos fault was that.

[@EvolvementEras]

I have to admit I did want to see this initially because I really liked Miss Marvel but after hearing so many issues with the script I just decided to wait. It’s so expensive going to the movies. I ended up spending my movie money on Napoleon because Ridley Scott very rarely missesand I actually did enjoy the last dual

[@MsDragonbal776]

How was Napoleon though?

[@EvolvementEras]

@@MsDragonbal776 it does not come out till next week. My ticket is November 21 at 6:45 PM and I am so excited!

[@razorburn645]

Given that Loki and Invincible are doing well, its not superhero fatigue, its mediocre product fatigue.

[@HickoryChip0]

Loki is trash too

[@razorburn645]

@@HickoryChip0 That's call an opinion sonny.

[@hawkeyemihawkgettingmoneylord]

Is loki doing well its pretty universal that the first season was better.

[@breyonjackson3253]

My number one issue is the writing; in Multiverse of Madness, when Strange was at a wedding and someone made a death joke, I was like, what???? The fact that Kang, who was hyped up, was trampled by ants and that ant mans daughter was insufferable.

[@Caine187]

"The illuminati THE ILLUMIWHATI?" Shit like that drives me up the wall "Its never too late to stop being a dick"

[@pastoryoda2789]

Antman’s daughter was a dick

[@AhkymBrizzy]

@@Caine187 As if Stephen Strange has never heard the word “Illuminati”

[@EvolvementEras]

Absolutely! After Antman and Kang just has me so apprehensive to go out to the movies for it

[@ASageCalledQ]

I feel you. I just don't have any faith in them at this point. Because someone greenlit those ideas and thought it was acceptable.

[@clockstomper]

Secret Invasion damaged Fury and tonal similarities to Love and Thunder played a factor.

[@EmrysMerlin8807]

I've held for a long time that the only reason Captain Marvel did so well at the box office was because it was essentially a prelude to Infinity War. This kinda confirms it for me. Edit: Holy crap I literally typed this up at the @25:00 minute mark and lo and behold...

[@TreFKennedy]

Rogue and Mystique should have been the villians of this movie

[@robertwild9447]

That would've been awesome. Those are fan favorite characters people want to see again.

[@1stKindChris]

That almost made too much sense

[@1stKindChris]

I dont think they can use those characters yet.... thats why it's taking Marvel so long to announce casting

[@TreFKennedy]

@@1stKindChris exactly , Brie Larson talking about how she doesn’t wanna be in the mcu , we need the Mutants , let Rogue come in and take her powers already

[@1stKindChris]

@@TreFKennedy like I said.... I don't think they can recast the characters yet.

[@ladyweirdo6035]

Sure you can say that women didn't show up because not as many of us are into Marvel, but you know another reason we didn't show up? We didn't like the first Captain Marvel film.

[@strife9878]

Time to bring in Rogue to take Carols power

[@KingOfMadCows]

A big problem is that the MCU isn't improving. A lot of Marvel movies have always had the same problems, even some of their good movies. People were complaining about weak villains and pointless weightless CGI battles since Phase 1. And these issues keep persisting, so much so that even She-Hulk made fun of it. But then they repeat the exact same mistake in Secret Invasion. People were willing to overlook these problems when the MCU was new but they can’t ignore them forever.

[@comixproviderftw_02]

That pretty sums it up perfectly. It really comes down to the conflict of “Ambition” and “Reputation.” If you look back on Phase 4, it feels like they wanted to try new things and explore different possibilities with the franchise. But at the same time it’s too afraid to stray away from what people liked about the MCU to begin with. Every director always says that the movie they’re working on is gonna be “different” or “not like any other movie in the MCU”. But then the higher ups from Disney come in and make them bend to their will.

[@shettywap]

Bruh, I remember watching civil war and thinking......none of this means anything. Why did they make this movie?

[@alwaysxnever]

Perfectly stated. These items were already there there is just less of us letting it slide.

[@alexchavez7514]

25:54 I think Korey meant to say that Captain Marvel grossed more domestically than Far From Home, not No Way Home. The domestic totals for each film are: Captain Marvel - $426,829,839, Far From Home - $390,532,085, and No Way Home - $814,115,070. Source: Box Office Mojo.

[@rasalpaul4574]

Thank you

[@ShawnWeeded510]

Marvels main problem is that even in a movie called Captain Marvel theyre still trying to sell me on everything except Captain Marvel. Looks like Blade was gonna have the same problem. I hope they get a fresh start with Echo.

[@kenwelckle367]

Script could have been better, the villain could have been written. I want to make this clear. It's none of Cast fault. They did the best with material they were given.

[@voodoochile333]

It was the cast fault. THEY ARE ALL WOMEN The fact is that 75% of the audience is male and the only male representation is a cuck Samuel Jackson. If you want to have female led cast, at least make them HOT.

[@TheSpawnfan]

You can't turn trash into gold, no matter if the cast is good.

[@BaithNa]

Besides Iman, most of the cast was phoning it in and the villain was the worst when it came to their performances.

[@MrBazBake]

The cast was great for the most part, especially the Khans. And it was fun seeing Nick Fury back as Nick Fury again LOL

[@voodoochile333]

@@MrBazBake the damage is done

[@danielsdimension2003]

People don't want to see bad movies. Thats why they'll refuse to watch this.

[@Davethe3rd]

This is not a bad movie, though. It's actually pretty good! I liked it!

[@BaithNa]

​@@Davethe3rdjust because you liked it doesn't mean that it's good. The Marvels has a ton of problems on every level of the movie and it was obvious from the trailers that this movie was more a kin to a made for TV movie rather than a theatrical release film.

[@anthonycastillo8055]

@@BaithNadid you see the movie? Don’t lie

[@Spigan818]

​@@anthonycastillo8055yep and I know a lot people will try to gloss over the flaws in which this movie has a lot of. They're not even subtle, they're pretty obvious so either people were in denial or their bar is so low anything would peaked it. People like the transformers movies most of those are terrible. You can like a bad movie doesn't mean it's not a bad movie.

[@anthonycastillo8055]

@@Spigan818 who tf is trying to make the argument that this is a flawless movie? I just don’t understand the hate that it’s getting. I thought the characters were very likable and the action scenes where they’re all switching places with each other were fucking awesome. Captain Marvel wasn’t a cardboard of a person and she actually had some personality. Monica Rambeau had emotional moments with Captain Marvel and she was hilarious on the singing planet. Miss Marvel stole the show. This was a fine movie. Far from the worst

[@themoviebuff6196]

Nothing cares about Captain Marvel. That’s the honest truth! The only reason why the first movie did so well was because of the Avengers Endgame hype.

[@DannyBeigal]

I don’t think it’s because Marvel is inaccessible… this phase has been the least connected phase of all of them. It’s because they are trying to save money and not hiring quality writers

[@GeekOwtLowd]

Yes. It's to save money AND so they can boss them around and bully them.

[@notmephisto1375]

This phase has had 3 projects and it's building.

[@BaithNa]

Movies like The Marvels prove Martin Scorsese right. This movie didn't have any messages or character arcs. There was barely even a story, things just happened and they were haphazardly explained afterwards. Marvel should be ashamed of themselves because this was a disservice to comic book movies and the progressive movement.

[@jrt2792]

You can quote a line from The Godfather but you can't quote anything from Aquaman.

[@banquetoftheleviathan1404]

I bet he would like masks of phantasm or under the red hood. And become even more annoyed at the super hero film industry cuz the difference is night and day. They really had to make super hero stories dumber to approach a general audience and i bet thats what he really means.

[@bigbabysld]

​​@@jrt2792OMG...I just watched THE GODFATHER two days ago....my god what a Great movie.

[@MikeBree]

Me personally I could care less about his movies, much of the same sometimes. I guess it isn't for me 🤷🏽‍♂️💯

[@lutherheggs451]

People really need to STFU with the Martin Scorsese quotes. He literally stated out loud that he purposely made those comments because he had a movie coming out and he needed to get attention for his movie. He literally stated out loud that he realized the only way his movie was going to get attention was to say something people would think was controversial

[@marlondavis9450]

Idk why you guys are analyzing why it flopped, it’s pretty obvious. People don’t care about those characters & the mcu is forcing it so audiences didn’t see it. You guys say it was bad marketing but we seen the commercials & knew it was coming out we just didn’t care.

[@katrinaj7173]

I am a woman and have read Marvel comics since I was a kid. The problem for me is that I am tired of the cinematic universe and post End Game the movies have been mediocre. What also kills this for me is the need to have to watch the TV shows to understand the movies. I am not a fan of the multiverse. I feel like there are so many interesting Marvel comics characters that could do well in a movie. My friends and I all say we have superhero fatigue.

[@Ramen_Hibachi]

We are tired of the Bare Minimum also they won’t give us the characters we want to see (Blade, Fantastic 4 etc)

[@ZensanFGC]

Right! We have to wait 4-5 years before we see anything we want.

[@xxxand3r]

Bruh nobody want no fucking fantastic 4. They tried in like 2015 of some shit nobody cares. Blade might be cool though so you got me there

[@BaithNa]

​@@xxxand3rthat wasn't the Fantastic Four, that was a director trying to tell their own story with a coat of Fantastic Four over it.

[@BaithNa]

Stalling with All New-All Different Marvel characters instead of getting right to the X-Men and Fantastic Four will be seen as one of the biggest mistakes in the history of Hollywood.

[@lorddj9910]

@@xxxand3rnobody cared because the movie sucked

[@Jermaine2099]

I saw Captain Marvel to get my superhero fix since I was deployed when Infinity War came out. I thought it was okay, but nothing special so I never planned on seeing this. If the first movie was better I'd have seen The Marvels this weekend

[@tacottogetherness7604]

Until the movies are not on disney plus No marvel movie will ever have a big opening weekend because the casual fans will just wait for it to come on Disney plus

[@Delboy0]

Marvel confused audiences going to see Captain Marvel to find out what happened after infinity war, with people who actually cared for the character. Marvel miscalculated the popularity of Captain Marvel and no one wanted to see a sequel to a bad movie that was not related to a bigger story.

[@michaelstrong5383]

Not to mention her role in Endgame was very _VERY_ little.

[@SailorSlay]

Wait the captain marvel comic has new issues??? I go to the comic book store damn near every week and I didn’t know that.

[@TroyDyamondWilson]

I watched The Marvels on opening weekend on Sunday at my local cinema. Regardless of the fact that I watched the movie on opening weekend, the movie theater screen room that I was in was not full at all. Some people were there but it wasn't packed. Love to DT from London. Respect to Martin for coming thru to the UK ❤

[@thoomolong]

Yes, the movie underperformed. So many screenings would not be full. Thanks for the obvious information. 😆

[@nkemnoraulmanfredini7286]

😐@@thoomolong

[@simontailor9704]

@@thoomolong An unwarranted, negative comment. You must be fun at parties.

[@ASageCalledQ]

Their was 4 other people in the theater with me.

[@vrfj1997]

captain marvel made so much money because it came out right in between infinity war and endgame

[@MrBazBake]

Ant-Man made less than half as much money and it came out in the same window. This excuse doesn't work. The reality is that Captain Marvel was something people wanted to see -- a novel gimmick with no connection to the MCU that can stand on its own. And it had something to say. Captain Marvel is a movie with a very coherent, aggressive political message that Marvel has grown increasingly afraid of and has actually started to reverse (see: Falcon and the Winter Soldier, Secret Invasion). Heck, the movie doesn't even spend much time in space. I still love it. It's a sharp hang out flick with a great cast and awesome fight choreography.

[@killervee3290]

@@MrBazBakeit’s not an excuse, it’s a fact. It was sandwiched right between Infinity War and Endgame that is the the ONLY reason it made as much money as it did. You know it, I know it, and Marvel knows it. That’s why they were so scared to push her to the forefront until now, and they were right to be so.

[@vrfj1997]

@@MrBazBake i feel like antman 2 didnt have the same expectations to live up to as captain marvel antman 2 came out after infinity war so it couldve been an afterthought to alot of people captain marvel coming out right before endgame was a movie people really felt like they HAD to go see to get the full experience from endgame

[@hope-cat4894]

They're hiring directors and not even letting them direct. Half of the movies are pre-written, and the fight scenes are already done, so they are just slapping the directors name on it when they have barely done anything. They're getting people who don't know anything about the previous films/shows and not helping them with the continuity. They need to get people who can handle big sci-fi action blockbusters. Not everyone can jump from indie films to this level so quickly. They also need to learn to accept criticism. I don't care if some random Twitter users hurt your feelings, that's no excuse to waste millions of dollars "trolling" them while ignoring everyone else who is calling you out for terrible storytelling.

[@assassin8636]

Yeah not sure what you're saying ain't really true

[@Rowgun254]

Imagine if the creators of Sex and the City or 50 Shades of Gray decided to appeal to a male audience for some reason. Their next movie would probably star Jackie Chan or Stallone and contain heavy action scenes and some toilet humour for the more wacky dudes. How do you think the fans of those IPs would react? Would they embrace it or stop watching all together? Don't know.

[@xelaander8429]

Exactly

[@AlcideIzMine]

Except women also read comics. I grew up reading comics & going to conventions and so did all of my friends and classmates. Comicbooks, especially comicbook movies, aren't a niche genre anymore. Haven't been for over a decade now. General audiences are aware of the IPs. It's not 1980 😂. The Marvels needed a better script. Blue Beetle, a DC property, also needed a better script. Bad scripts mean bad movies. People worry too much about gender crap. Put out a good movie and you'll get a good box office.

[@baylaust]

1. Burnout. I think the fabled "Marvel Fatigue" has finally set in. 2. Lack of much promotion thanks to the various strikes going on. 3. The trailers and advertisements didn't really sell the movie well. It looked fine, but nothing to go out of your way to buy a ticket for.

[@chillwillfromtheville]

After BP2, GOTG3, and Spider Man ATSP, this was never gonna do good. It just didn’t pass the eye-test.

[@omaridaniels8427]

26:26- One big factor we're not thinking of? People have been saying SINCE Captain Marvel came out that a big reason for that movie's success was it being sandwiched between Infinity War and Endgame and being portrayed as a must-see film prior to Endgame. This isn't a new argument. Folks said that for years.

[@BaithNa]

To Martin's point, women are into the X-Men because all of Marvel's most iconic female characters are X-Men, the same thing goes with gay characters. The X-Men are the most inclusive and representative group in the history of comics.

[@BSJ-Unparalleled]

At first the budget was a little over $200 million, but including reshoots, and advertising, the budget was well over $300 million.

[@razorburn645]

So they over spent again. This should have been 150 million and then making its money back would have been possible.

[@pastoryoda2789]

Disney executives are idiots

[@BaithNa]

Deadline reported that the budget was somewhere between 250 and 270 million before marketing. We'll find out the real numbers in a few months but either way, this movie isn't going to come anywhere near breaking even.

[@BSJ-Unparalleled]

@@BaithNa wow, that’s even worse than I thought.

[@windowsVD]

Marketing and distribution costs typically amounts to roughly the same as the production budget. So 2x250 million and then add another ~100 million for reshoots and its total budget will be around 600 million.

[@Voodooray007]

Certain characters don't NEED to be on the movie screen. Some SHOULD have been on as a T.V. series.

[@snkfan7506]

Just saw the film today and I actually enjoyed it...well, Ms. Marvel's scenes at least. Enjoyed her Disney+ series and was waiting to see what happened in this film. The best part of this movie though was the runtime. That 1 hour and 40 minutes was just enough.

[@o.a.c408]

Marvel's greed no doubt has something to do with its recent struggles, but in the last few years, Marvel has had some serious obstacles to overcome. After End Gane, Marvel lost their transition hero (Chadwick). They launched a network that was going to support/ build on the movie franchise, but that pandemic thing happened. Followed by a Hollywood strike that may have had an adverse effect on scripts (WGA), that would then transition to promotion (SAG-AFTRA). Marvel did lose its focus, but those few things previously mentioned definitely added some wind to those sails.

[@JB-sc1tg]

Great points! Didn't think about that but you're right. Just really a series of unfortunate events.

[@oompie815]

The only MCU movie whose production got put on hold because of Covid, was Shang-Chi and Something Something. Black Widow only had issues with its release date. The production of the other movies had no issues. The TV Series that got put on production hold because of the pandemic were WandaVision and Loki.

[@o.a.c408]

@@oompie815 Somewhat true, but I'd arguee that a few projects suffered from a "domino" effect caused by the Pandemic. Altered release dates and halted production disrupted a continuity flow that I'm sure hurt, storylines, audience interest and engagement.

[@richardmark9161]

Iron Man was ALWAYS a big character. The “hardly anybody“ people that didn’t know Iron Man are just the GenZs who do not even acknowledge other generations 💥

[@LembeckIsStaying]

Nah bro, I'm a gen X comic fan.....nobody in the gen pop cared or even knew iron man unless it was Sabbath lol.

[@rickyclover9393]

In the 80s and 90s. It was Spiderman and The Xmen was kings of superheroes at Marvel. Granted, Ironman made cameo appearances on Spiderman: Animated Series and even 2 seasons of his own cartoon. However, he wasn't a popular mainstream character and comicbook nerds knew of him. It took 2008's Ironman starring Robert Downery Jr that gave Tony Stark a whiscal personality and a badass hi-tech suit to become a Top Tier superhero on the same level as Spiderman and The Xmen.

[@LuznoLindo]

@@LembeckIsStaying Yes, because everyone knows what LembeckIsStaying writes online is fact. You don't speak for everyone, and it's high time you realized that because it's getting ridiculous with you at this point. Laugh to yourself somewhere else.

[@richardmark9161]

@@rickyclover9393 like I said, not popular to the YOUNGER readers. The world doesn’t revolve completely around younger people. I really don’t connect with what younger people find popular or not popular. The younger generation is the reboot remake reimagine of my generation.

[@richardmark9161]

@@LembeckIsStaying that’s what I said. If you mean by GEN pop, you mean the current younger generation, right? Not interested in comic book fans that don’t know history of comics.

[@AllInTheGame01]

Of the 12 lowest ever critically rated MCU projects, 7 of them (58.3%) have been in the last 2yrs. Some of that has to do with critics feeling that fatigue but it's mostly to do with the quality of those projects. Almost tripling their output by going from 3 projects a year from '17 - '19 to an unsustainable 8 projects a year from '21 - '23 has clearly had an adverse effect on quality control & diluted the brand. They're right to pull back as much as possible and only release one movie in Deadpool 3 & one live-action show in Echo next year and hopefully they stick to that for the long-term health of the MCU.

[@commandershepard9920]

And also, even IF the quality were somehow the same, having 19 projects vs 7 projects still gives much greater fatigue period. I think the Marvels was just 'fine', but I'm almost positive I would have enjoyed it a lot more, *even at the same quality* , if there had been far less "Marvel Stuff" coming out. I haven't even started Loki Season 2. It's all just too much.

[@AllInTheGame01]

@@commandershepard9920 I literally pointed out how they've put out far too much which was at the request of Bob Iger (as reported in the new book on the MCU co-written by Joanna Robinson) who stupidly wanted as much MCU & Star Wars content on D+ when it launched to attract/retain as many subscribers as possible.

[@blackmcbain3145]

​@@AllInTheGame01once again, a greedy old white man is at the nexus of the issue. What a surprise!

[@commandershepard9920]

@@AllInTheGame01 Yep, just agreeing with ya. Just frustrated because I loved the MCU so much back in '08+. I remember the incredible anticipation I had over the first Avengers film.

[@stevekasan1575]

there is a great point regarding the characters Marvel had when this started with Iron Man, Hulk, Thor and Captain America. I remember the argument was, "Look at what Marvel did with these lower tier characters without Spider-man and/or X-Men" These characters have been part of the culture from cartoons, TV, and other media for decades. Now, the Marvel machine should have a broad reach especially now. With an Oscar winner with Brie Larsen should have that lure as well. Maybe, we are at point where this is the low period similar to Sport franchises. No franchise has a full longevity of success. There will come a down period. The goal was Infinity War, that is done. Now, here is the eventual rebuild.

[@digitaljanus]

I actually think that was the weakest point they made. No one except the biggest nerds knew who Blade or Iron Man was before their movies came out. They were never great-selling books, Blade had maybe one or two appearances in Spider-Man cartoons and Iron Man had one shitty animated series in the mid-90s no one remembered. Captain Marvel and especially Ms. Marvel had some of the best-selling books of the 2000s. You need to have a good movie, made by talented people with something to say, is the lesson Blade and Iron Man teach us.

[@dpo5000]

@@digitaljanus another person on the internet trying to rewrite history to justify disney's failure. let me be clear: you're right about blade. outside of his appearance on the 90s spider-man show, no one knew who he was. his book wasnt that popular. but Iron Man? regardless of the raw numbers of his book at the time, he had been a mainstay in the comics for decades. he had 2 animated series, guest appearances on more popular shows like spider-man, toys, video games etc. mainstream comic fans knew who he was, and that was all they needed to get interest in the first movie. you bring up the success of the ms. marvel and captain marvel books, but here's the thing: comic books are a tiny fraction of the superhero genre's operation. and the creative direction of mainstream comics is so far off base from what the mainstream movie/tv fan's taste, that judging an IP's popularity by its comic sales is practically a crap shoot.

[@stevekasan1575]

@@digitaljanus I will give you Blade but Shell Head has been around for decades. You do have a point considering how Men in Black and The Mask were big movies. It really does come down to market awareness and interest. Even if the film is good and market well, there still has to be full interest and Scott Pilgrim is an example of that.

[@Spigan818]

Sure, every franchise has a come down point Marvel could have had its peak last much longer if they didn't skip 30 years of source material to start adapting the 2010's comics that were already failures in their own media.

[@AlphariusDominatus]

@@Spigan818 BINGO!

[@chriswood1210]

These shows or movie, have no connections to each other. Case in point, there is no talk about a giant being, frozen at the end of eternals. At least with the monsterverse, there is continuity. Monarch show with explain what happen after godzilla left San Francisco and the bridge in ruins

[@JoeJoe-lq6bd]

My take is that they just let the producers control the movies, not the creatives, which they've pretty much said, and the films suffered. A few times they brought on people, e.g. Chloe Zhao, who were clearly not suited for this type of film. And another issue is that they listen a little too much to fans. Thor Love and Thunder had lots of fundamental issues but Marvel listened to fanboys who complained about jokes as THE issue and didn't look at those fundamental issues with the story and characters. So they're struggling to fix tone rather than story.

[@Chxxvo]

Captain Marvel did NOT outgross Spider-Man No Way Home. Bruh! Captain Marvel - 1.1 billion Spider-Man No Way Home - 1.9 BILLION. Spidey beat every single MCU movie bar Infinity War and Endgame. It didn't even outgross Spider-Man Far From Home. However, it did outgross Spider-Man Homecoming. Let's keep it real. But I agree with everything else you said.

[@dominiqueodom3099]

Marvels Formula has gotten so stale. Phase 4/5 should've focused on introducing the new Successor heroes,the villians that have emerged in the wake of both Snaps,and they should've had the balls to push for R Rated Superhero films with Blade leading the charge after films like Deadpool/Logan/Joker proved box office successes and that the public was interested in R Rated Superhero films.

[@thedefinitionisthis]

“Shouldve focused on introducing the new successor heroes”…. That’s what they’ve been doing lol.

[@assassin8636]

Or Doctor Doom in phase 4

[@gcolbyp]

@@thedefinitionisthisWell I think they meant, focus on them more because we haven’t seen a lot of them since. I’m still waiting for that Shang Chi sequel.

[@comixproviderftw_02]

It really comes down to the conflict of “Ambition” and “Reputation.” If you look back on Phase 4, it feels like they wanted to try new things and explore different possibilities with the franchise. But at the same time it’s too afraid to stray away from what people liked about the MCU to begin with. Every director always says that the movie they’re working on is gonna be “different” or “not like any other movie in the MCU”. But then the higher ups from Disney come in and make them bend to their will.

[@dominiqueodom3099]

@@gcolbyp this is exactly my point. Where is the new Captain america and Bucky? Where is John Walker and that Mysterious Benefactor lady he came into contact with near the end of Falcon and Winter Soldier? I legitimately find it hard to believe these characters even interact with each other let alone exist in the same universe.

[@thehumancomet]

The plot was trash. Would you watch a movie where Thor, Captain America and Iron Man traded places randomly? That's a Saturday Night Live skit. That's not a full length movie. And definitely something that wouldn't reel in audiences.

[@jjohnson218]

Let’s be honest. Over saturation of super hero movies combined with the fact that you have live up to the OG cast. The OG cast had real chemistry that played off each other that enamored us. This cast hasn’t hit a spark with the Audience.

[@assassin8636]

Yeah no what you sasaid about the over saturation ain't really true

[@MJG1515]

The approach is that ANYBODY can write this stuff, which is true, but not anybody can write it WELL.

[@Yourmanjeff]

The movie itself would have made far more sense if it came before Secret Invasion. So even the people keeping up with the multiple shows and movies you would need to have the background leave the theater confused as to when this film takes place or if Secret Invasion is even part of the current MCU canon. Even the MCU canon has introduced so many new characters that go nowhere, it's hard to have people invested in what is going on in any individual movie anymore. Sucks that it set this movie up to fail for the myriad of reasons you mentioned, because it was fun. First movie i have seen in theaters in a few years.

[@kevz2474]

Hire people who are good at making superhero content, not someone just because of what they represent. Stop the pander, hire qualifed people that can make good super hero movies. I'd rather have a white dude that can create one hell of a black panther than a black dude that turns black panther content into a trauma orgy because "black".

[@GeekOwtLowd]

It's not just the marketing. Carol Danvers is the least liked character in the MCU. She has no real backstory other than a cringey montage of men telling her she can't succeed, but she keeps getting back up. Add to that that it's starring random TV characters no one cares about with TV quality actresses. Add to that that every Marvel movie has sucked lately. Add to that that the director/writer was inexperienced, and hired solely for her skin color and vagina. Add to that that this is marketed to girls, and girls generally don't watch superhero movies unless they go WITH their sons, brothers, boyfriends, male friends, or husbands. Meaning that if you want women to watch your SUPERHERO movie, you should actually market it to men. It's a one-way overlap in interest, which is why the MCU was SO successful and liked by women back when it was mostly male heroes. Etc. Etc. Etc.

[@P.E.NumberOne]

Nia DeCosta had directed two movies before this one. She wasn't hired "because of her skin color". That is an insult as though her skills as a director needs to be questioned and justified to people like you. I don't think she did a great job but that is neither because she was a woman or because of her skin color. No one ever questions the experience of a male director when they are hired because of their race or gender. It's not marketed to girls. It's a superhero movie with 3 women in it. That's it. Barbie was marketed to girls. You didn't seem to have a problem with that overrated POS did you? As far as Carol having no real backstory. You haven't watched the movie have you? I found most of the people trashing this movie are people who haven't watched it and are now trolling the internet needing to justify their decision not to see it. It as better than The Trolls movie, yet Korey thought that movie was good. There are a variety of reasons why this movie didn't succeed and most of what you wrote isn't one of them.

[@Crunch_Buttsteak]

​@@P.E.NumberOneNah he's 100% right. Comic books were majority aimed at boys for decades & boys were picked on and called nerds for reading comics up until recently. Women largely didnt give a shit about them. That is why men are traditionally given the keys to these vehicles because chances are, at some point in their lives they picked up a comic book willingly. This huge wave of female representation started around the #MeToo movement & now we have crap like this & "She Hulk".

[@Crunch_Buttsteak]

​@@P.E.NumberOnelook up Larry Fink & ESG scores but you probably wont. According to him ''if people wont change we have to force change". Hence these movies, hence all this great "diversity" & "representation" even if its at the cost of story & box office returns. 100% factual look it up.

[@echoststudio7252]

16:01 That is cap These guys are coping so hard No one ever heard of The guardians of the Galaxy before their movie came but starlord gamora rocket grute had so much personality and Carisma and good writing That in one movie they became a household name

[@JeonardShadby505]

Every good franchise has ten years in which their best material is made--Simpsons, Star Wars, etc, because it's still unique and fresh. But now that every other movie has this Marvel feel to it, the backlash was inevitable, and cutting back next year to Deadpool 3 is the best choice they've got to sort this shit out and get back on the right track. The actors/directors/writers are tired, the VFX artists are tired, the audiences are tired. Plain and simple.

[@jrt2792]

Another Marvel movie? Pass.

[@spicymemes7458]

​@@jrt2792The deadpool movies are functionally not tied to the MCU. You could not watch any MCU movies and watch only Deadpool and it's good on its own.

[@gcolbyp]

@@spicymemes7458But Deadpool 3 is still connected to the Multiverse though

[@spicymemes7458]

@@gcolbyp I won't count it unless there is homework. I haven't seen it so idk yet, but if you can watch all 3 deadpool movies on their own, I can let it slide.

[@assassin8636]

But is all this true about audience or it's simply don't want to enjoy themselves anymore

[@478Johnnyboy]

13:33 As much as I like John as punisher they need to really do something interesting with him. 1st season was good but that second season was lackluster. So i get the hype for punisher but when they tie him to an awful story line of a escort mission it didn’t make for a great season imo

[@MaverickneoGamer]

Fantastic four and xmen will be a way to bring audiences back in that have jumped ship. Something else to think about. There are a lot of people who are on the “I’ll wait for it to come out on Disney plus” and are not going to the theatre. Maybe they should focus on fantastic four and xmen, less is more and make them VERY good. This will give a chance for the rest of the marvel characters to breath and simmer for a bit while Kevin F. And friends refocus. Just some ideas.

[@MrBazBake]

Nobody reads the FF comics and no one watches the movies, how will they save anything (Marvel knows this deep down and they're terrified)

[@hawkeyemihawkgettingmoneylord]

Seriously fantastic 4?

[@93deadpool]

Korey, it's not the weak marketing. Please stop using that as an excuse. There were tons of comic-book films released prior to the strike with astronomical marketing and still flopped. Stop capping and call it like it is, the film is trash and Marvel fans are tired of the sub-par content and are demanding better quality overall.

[@comixproviderftw_02]

This movie feels like it was just thrown away like a rando January release. But at the same time, they were so desperate to make this movie a success after a few hits cracked the MCU’s armor, even going as far as using old clips from previous movies from their golden era in the trailer, trying to hype up The Marvels as if they were on the same level as Iron Man, Captain America and Thor, and teasing a SUPER BIG REVEAL that you can’t miss. It really didn’t help this movie, it was doomed from the start and it’s sad to say really.

[@blackmcbain3145]

Thor ain't on no kind of level that last movie was BOOTY CHEEKS!!!

[@comixproviderftw_02]

@@blackmcbain3145Despite the last movie, people still see Thor as one of the greats, as part of the Marvel Trinity. I mean, he’s part of the OG Six after all. Love and Thunder was just a bad movie that was directed by someone who didn’t really want to direct it but he had to for the money.

[@creekandseminole]

Marketing wouldn't have helped. It looked bad right from the start. Fatigue is real also. The fans and the normies have noticed the low quality efforts coming from Marvel Studios

[@lawrencericho3635]

I'm tired of people who weren't into Marvel to begin with acting like they know why its failing. It ain't "too much" content of its good! South Park got over 20 seasons... cuz it was GOOD.

[@LembeckIsStaying]

The Nu fans I call them.

[@franklinboyd123]

Monica Rambieu was a huge comicbook character...back in the 80's!

[@1stKindChris]

Marvel built its empire off C list and D list characters. Now its time for them to level up to A list and Marvel is doubling down on F list characters. In fairness, i think they have to wait 5 years after the Fox purchase to recast the X Men characters (which is why theyvare dragging out the introduction of mutants)

[@BaithNa]

If that's the case and they were planning to get to Secret Wars, they should have just brought back the previous Fox actors and recasted after Secret Wars.

[@PlutoRoman]

"script filled with place-holder lines" is EXACTLY what's been wrong with MCU since Endgame. Spider-man NWH and MoM were the worst

[@F.Hakeem89]

When Hideo Kojima likes The Flash more than The Marvels.

[@comixproviderftw_02]

To be fair, I believe he was paid off. Like all the other celebrity reviews.

[@maskedman5657]

Maybe I'm on an island but the Flash was a very below average film for me. And God that CGi needs was terrible

[@ripman21]

​@@maskedman5657maybe you expect too much

[@windowsVD]

@@maskedman5657 I’m pretty sure that’s the general consensus.

[@scoutravenson3641]

18:45 yes! Women and Gays love the X-men! Truer words never spoken, bravo sir, touché!

[@Maxrepfitgm]

Captain Marvel has never been a popular or interesting character and Brie Larson's portrayal of her and how she's written has not helped with that. Ironman, say what you will about him being a lesser character was and is interesting in the comic books whereas they can't even get her right in the comics. Also, there is comic book fatigue and no longer is it enough to just have super heroes and that's it, you actually need decent villains and a plot and from I hear this has neither.

[@traesmith9822]

It's not The Marvels. It's Marvel failing. 1. Quantity over quality not fitting the "fix it in post" Marvel movie method 2. Combination of Covid, Disney+, Fox acquistion, untimely deaths, vfx woes, strikes, etc. messing up the roadmap 3. They literally admitted they did not know how to make tv shows (not hiring showrunners, tv executives)

[@hope-cat4894]

And the old writers who were in charge of planning out Phases 1-3 were progressively fired, leaving only Feige in charge. That's too much for one person to juggle, and that's basically getting rid of the dream team.

[@codafett]

I feel like every complaint people have with The Marvels applies to every Marvel Film in the last 3 or 4 years. Only now it's "safe" to shit on this movie because it's Brie Larson.

[@iamrysheem]

Its been being said it just now is the breaking point because they made a movie with all the same problems people were already complaining about. Brie larson hate is just trolls on tye internet. Those people are unhappy. But the first captain marvel movie was not good. People have a bad taste in their mouth because infinity tricked them into seeing a movie that they didnt need to see which also was not very good. How do you try to get people to come out a second time for a movie they didnt like after releasing a string of movies no one liked? Since endgame about 3 films have been well received.

[@simplyrowen]

This second semester of 2023, I showed up for Barbie, Oppenheimer, Killers of The Flower Moon; and I’m saving my last 2023 ticket for Poor Things. I can’t speak for others, but personally, I want movies with substance, that make me think, that entertain and are a visual feast, due to stunning production design and cinematography. I want good art, not ok art. The trailer for The Marvels didn’t seem to have that combo for me. So I’m not willing to spend $18 on a ticket plus $25-$30 in snacks for it.

[@lurkzie]

Someone described the state of the MCU right now as "what you get when a little sister starts playing with her older brothers toys"

[@JB-sc1tg]

That makes zero sense, but okay

[@JB-sc1tg]

@Alden141 Oh okay. You got me...😂

[@leatherface964]

The lowest MCU opening weekend numbers: The Marvels - 47,000,000 The Incredible Hulk - 55,000,000 Ant-Man - 57,000,000 CA First Avenger - 65,000,000 Thor - 65,700,000 Eternal - 71,000,000

[@spoonbendingspacemonkey]

I am soooo happy I found this channel! 😂❤❤

[@cosmosofinfinity]

It's 3 characters nobody cares about, which requires viewing of a TV show, in a time of Marvel fatigue. Plus development troubles. Quadruple whammy of failure, even if it was actually good that wouldn't have been enough. Captain Marvel and Ms. Marvel have NEVER been runaway successes, it's time for the astroturfing of these propped up characters to stop already

[@garenthal9638]

Why did it flop? Because Marvel lost their good will with audiences so they’ll have to start actually trying again

[@ChelseaAllen420]

Tired of mediocre movies in general and tired of the studios and the actors trying to tell me I should go see this movie because of female representation….give me a movie i feel is worth going to and I will show up…but stop trying to tell me I have to or should go see a mediocre movie just because they put females as the lead…nope…I deserve better…women we deserve better.

[@thechefsteffon9173]

💯💯

[@Miketkd]

I don’t think it’s fatigue it’s more of them world building for another big movie and forcing it on us with characters we never asked for but if they didn’t it would prob cause hella confusion they could make these movies without rushing these characters but that’s not how hollyweird works Ms.Marvel was the best part of the movie and half of that reason is cuz I was invested in her show same with photon

[@blackmagician7645]

The reason why all these MCU projects are falling apart nowadays. Is they now lack any real substance. Like- none of the story developments even really matter. So many things could happen, or be subtracted from happening. They don't really effect much importance. Sure- you get some strands of things that link into further developments. But not the majority run threshold. Like where are the jinns realm mentioned in Ms Marvel? How do they play out? What about that celestial corpse popping up from the ocean? What's going on there? How are the nation governments addressing the blip re-enterys issues that were concerned in Falcon & Winter Soider? Who else are skrulls living in hidden un plain sight? What's going on between the advancements of alien technology and magic expose to the Earth through so many different series of film and show events? Just so many new stuff get added to just be pushed over to the side snd not addressed again. And all the forth wall breaking in She-Hulk. Don't know what's canon or what us a wild fever dream going on over there.

[@mumm-ratheeverliving2288]

MCU needed to reboot after the last Avengers movie. Endgame was the perfect wrap to the Infinity saga and send off for that group of heroes. A reboot of the main characters and start of a new saga is the route MCU should have gone. Even if it was a soft reboot that was explained as it being a alternate Universe or Timeline would have been more interesting.

[@Synthetic94]

Thinking about scenes and characters for more than 5 seconds opens a plethora of issues with the writing, and ultimately the editing in the film. Unfinished product and overblown budgets, not to mention garbage writing is plaguing Disney and all that it umbrellas.

[@keijijohnson9754]

Between some audiences just not feeling it with this film, requiring knowledge of the Disney Plus shows to get the full context of it, and Marvel quoting the freaking WASHINGTON POST for one of their Tweets promoting this, it's just not looking good for it at all. I would like to be wrong overtime since there are those that support it, but it does feel like it's not going to go well for it. It's even more unfortunate knowing that freakin' Little Mermaid remake of all things would be doing way better than this too, which angers me more when it comes to THAT trash....

[@jrt2792]

Wait, I have to WATCH Disney+!?! I'm glad the film flopped.

[@92kris]

Make a Storm movie and watch dudes show up…make a dope ass Storm movie and everybody will show…not only do we not care about the Marvels the movie is just ok..Its not terrible at all..but just not nothing to rush out and see

[@92kris]

@@P.90.603 I was pointing out it has nothing to do with having a women lead..men would support a more popular character like Storm..but of course not Gambit or Beast…But a Storm or Cyclops movies done well with great action…people will show up

[@92kris]

@@P.90.603 that’s because the movies released over the past years have been straight ass!! People spent money on Thor and Guardians..Storm is way more popular then them…A good movie is a good movie…if 5 movies this year were Civil War level writing people would go…People go to the movies more than ever…They’re only going 2-3 times now because there is nothing worth seeing…people buy expensive food every single day thats totals up to a family movie ticket..they’ll show up for a incredible movie

[@BaithNa]

Storm is more popular than all of these characters combined. She's one of Marvel's most popular characters so a great Storm movie could easily make between 800 million and a billion dollars at the box office.

[@92kris]

@@BaithNa facts!!!!!!!!!!!!! The movies have made people think Avengers are bigger than the X Men..Absolutely not…give Storm a great writer and director and its heading towards a billion for sure!

[@DetroitAlan01]

The studio wants everything to be connected. So none of their projects are ever allowed to truly stand on their own. As a result, all their movies start to feel too alike, and audiences get tired of them. Looking at the trailer for the Marvels, how’d it look any different from Ant Man 3, Thor 4 or GOTG 3?

[@hawkeyemihawkgettingmoneylord]

But most of these shows are not even connected either lol.

[@DetroitAlan01]

@@hawkeyemihawkgettingmoneylord - yes, they are. The shows feature many of the same actors reprising their roles from the movies and referencing the events of the movies. Then the movies, in turn, reference the events of the streaming series. This is why many understandably feel the MCU is simply too “dense” for the casual moviegoer.

[@hawkeyemihawkgettingmoneylord]

@@DetroitAlan01 explain to me what connecting story is and who the avegers are right now go ahead try.

[@DetroitAlan01]

@@hawkeyemihawkgettingmoneylord - thought you meant they weren’t supposed to be connected. They are, and they were. But, post Endgame, they’ve been missing the mark.

[@Coffeewiththegods]

I find some MCU fans to be extremely hypocritical. The MCU had problems for sure but, too many times I keep seeing them say “There’s too many movies and tv shows to watch to understand what’s going on.” And then they turn around and ask why moon knight isn’t connecting to anything. MCU fans want more blankets and less blankets at the same time.

[@BaithNa]

The simple answer is that they should have had an Avengers movie to tie up everything and make it feel that they didn't introduce all of those characters for nothing. Instead they keep throwing movies and TV shows at us and we never see those characters again.

[@AdeleKakwandi]

Unfortunately the lack of appeal to the female audience this movie tried to capture is also a big part of why it flopped. Women were 35% of the audience. It also only attacted a small audience of men because there was no major male chracter to appeal to male audiences who are still the majority audience of comic book movies.

[@uzumaki3755]

That isn't true. Women are on par with watching comic book movies as much as men. The films in the past wouldn't be succesful if they didn't go. The characters were not that exciting or compelling, that's all. Marvel fatigue at play too.

[@AdeleKakwandi]

@@uzumaki3755 I'll give you that the characters weren't that compelling but it is true. The comic book world is still very male dominated. Women have made up high viewing in some movies yes but not across the whole medium in general. Males are still the dominant viewers and if they don't turn up the film won't succeed.

[@AdeleKakwandi]

@@hijklmnopreaper Unfortunately a lot of the box office of phases 4 and 5 point to the fact white male audiences haven't been supporting Marvel films that don't centre around white males. Let's look at the figures. *The highest grossing films of phase 4 and 5* : No way Home: $1.9 billion Doctor Strange: $952 million Guardians of the Galaxy 3: $850 m Thor LaT- $760 m Lowest grossing films of phase 4 and 5: Black Widow- $379 M Shang-chi- $450 m Eternals- $402 m The Marvels- still TBD but lowest Marvel opening ever.... What do you notice about this? With the exception of Black Panther all movies centred around non-white male leads by non-white male directors have struggled at the BO. With the exception of Ant man and the Wasp all movies around white male characters have been hits.... These stats say something 🤔

[@Phillipgraves869]

The movie had such a huge budget for characters no one cares about

[@flanagamer]

Another big issue was no real positive word-of-mouth reviews like _Barbie_ received this summer. Nobody saying “omg this movie was amazing you gotta go see it ASAP!” - most people are just gonna wait 4-6 weeks and catch it on Disney+. Mediocre movies are just not a draw in this economy, even when it’s Marvel. Plus, I think many families had to choose between _The Marvels_ and the new Hunger Games prequel coming out this Friday. Nobody can afford a movie every weekend.

[@Two-ToneMoonStone]

It is kind of amazing that Marvel and Disney have basically been fumbling all of this since Endgame. The tv shows have been controversial since the beginning except WV, and even then MoM ruined that. Almost all of the movies except Shang-Chi and NWH. They had a whole year where they didn't need to go anywhere and they somehow didn't manage to plan an enaging beginning to the new storyline.

[@WayneBoucaud]

What was most frustrating was the amount of negativity coming from all aspects of social media before it’s actual release, and youtubers riding on the crest of it, I’ve not seen such vitriol to a movie at this level, look at the casting, 2 people of colour and a female lead, the star of the show was Muslim, so it was a bold move for Marvel to make, people had decided not to go which emboldened others minds to do the same, no one knew of the script… I wanted this movie to succeed, and my granddaughter wants the Monica Rambeau suit, and she’s highly intelligent I might add… Does it have to be on Infinity War/Endgame levels for it to be taken seriously, I liked it, it was good, not spectacular, but all the snide remarks are not helping for a second to be made, we live in an age we’re it’s difficult to find support for a lot of artistic endeavours, hope I’m making sense and not the lone voice out in the wilderness…all power to Nia Dacosta and the cast of The Marvel’s…

[@ironisa]

Why is Martin not sitting in his seat???