Why the New Testament is worse than the Old - Christopher Hitchens

Hitchens explains why he thinks the New Testament is more unpleasant than the Old Testament. This is a clip from an interview he did with CSPAN's Peter Slen on In Depth in 2007. #theism #shorts #christopherhitchens #atheist #nonbeliever #bible #christian #religion #god #debate #faith

[@taco12]

What kind of justice is it to torture someone for all eternity for something he did in one short lifetime?

[@-D-I-V-A-]

Is there a difference between you as a High schooler punching ur fellow Classmate, compared to punching ur Principal, to punching a Police Officer, to punching a Court Judge, to punching President Joe Biden? NOW WITH YOU SINNING EVERY SINGLE DAY... YOU'RE LITERALLY PUNCHING GOD THOUSANDS & THOUSANDS OF TIMES DURING UR ENTIRE LIFETIME! *U GET IT?*

[@hilkmeister1382]

Hell is not a place but a state of being. God does not send you to hell, you choose it when you reject him. If we want to talk about justice and fairness then where is the fairness for God when he ignores the slights and slanders to provide for you just for you to continue your abuses on him?

[@zzz51435]

It's a good question. But I don't think he's doing the torturing. You choose to follow him or not. To trust him, or not. It's also interpreted that the lake of fire in the end will devour everything in hell, to become nothingness essentially. So I don't think it's eternal agony like some people think. But it is eternal damnation into nothingness I would think

[@-D-I-V-A-]

@@zzz51435 The Bible says that our Souls are Eternal. And I learned that if you're reading The New Testament where Jesus is describing the separation of the sheep from the goats. Jesus is using the identical Hebrew word when saying Everlasting Life with GOD in Heaven & Everlasting Life in Hell or The Lake Of Fire... So if Jesus is usin the same word, that would mean Eternal Life with GOD in Heaven is not Everlasting? SO I BELIEVE THAT HEAVEN AND HELL ARE BOTH EVERLASTING...

[@IanM-id8or]

@@hilkmeister1382 Actually read your book. There is literally NOTHING I could possibly do that would come close to the disgusting evil that is attributed in the Bible to your god. Even if your god existed, it would not have the right to judge anyone. Literally EVERYONE is morally superior to the god of the Bible

[@dennisevans6544]

Oh Christopher, how we miss you……One of the great minds of all time

[@robertperkins8009]

Not all that intelligent and very ignorant.

[@dustinavant2003]

​@robertperkins8009 Was anything he said incorrect, or are you just trolling?

[@starcrib]

​@@robertperkins8009🐩💨

[@johnreidy2804]

I don't miss him one bit

[@johnreidy2804]

@@dustinavant2003 It's not what he says that is incorrect it's what he intimates that is misleading. No mention of hell in the OT. So what? He wants you to think there is no hell because it is not mentioned in the OT. But the NT mentions it more than it does heaven. So...point made about hell

[@prisonersforprofit]

"torturing the dead..." never thought of it that way. had a religious person tell me i was crazy for not believing in god. i said, "show me hell on a map." he looked at me like i asked him to jump off a bridge. "where is heaven?" i asked. i could see his wheels turning, he'd think of something then realize that wasn't a good enough, he was getting his church mail, i asked, "any letters from jesus?" "all the time" he answered, i asked as he walked away, "all in your head?" no answer.

[@SaintD382]

They have no choice but to walk away when they are confronted with logic and reason -- two things religion cannot endure.

[@freppie_]

hell is beneath the earths crust, Heaven is above quite literally. just look up and ur staring in the direction of heaven.

[@whatthefunkingmcshit]

​@@freppie_and yet churches are anti NASA

[@gadget348]

​@@freppie_just pay your favourite priest for your free entry into gods cloud. Though I've always wondered why a god capable of creating a vast universe would need your sacrifice or weekend cash or a tythe etc... then again maybe it's the priest spending your cash. That heaven thing really sounds good though... thought maybe a bit too good to be true. If a Nigerian prince tried selling me an afterlife hotel like that I'd definitely know it was all a con.

[@albaniahenry-franklin2829]

​@@freppie_🤣🤣🤣🤣

[@Luke-md7up]

This is why you shouldn’t get your theology from this dead man. The Old Testament MOST DEFINITELY talks about hell many times

[@douggauzy6258]

Isaiah 14. Verse 9-14. Is one

[@manguy01]

_"If I ascend up into heaven, thou art there: if I make my bed in hell, behold, thou art there. "_ - Psalm 139:8 *Sheol* is clearly a place in contrast to heaven. It is "the Pit," it is in the utmost depths of the earth: _"Can you find out the limits of the Almighty?_ _They are higher than heaven- what can you do?_ _Deeper than Sheol- what can you know?"_ - Job 11: 7, 8 It is also clearly a place of suffering: _"Then Jonah prayed unto the LORD his God out of the fish's belly, And said, I cried by reason of mine affliction unto the LORD, and he heard me; out of the belly of hell cried I, and thou heardest my voice."_ - Jonah 2:2 And it is clearly a punishment: _"How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations!"_ _"For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: ... I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the most High."_ _"Yet thou shalt be brought down to hell, to the sides of the pit."_ - Isaiah 14: 12-15

[@Leotv19]

Yeah they won’t address this. Someone says it’s true and then they just agree

[@saythingstomichael]

Sure. It's not exactly explicit and can be cobbled together out of that. But so what? All Hitchens is saying is that the doctrine of hell is barbaric.

[@saythingstomichael]

​@Leotv19 who's "they"?

[@Leotv19]

@@saythingstomichael people who fall for his dribble

[@diogomendes5236]

Thank you. It is astounding how just because a man tells something eloquently and with a british accent it is imediately taken as fact. I will add some more verses: Daniel 12:2 (NIV): "Multitudes who sleep in the dust of the earth will awake: some to everlasting life, others to shame and everlasting contempt." (i mean could it be more clearer than this?) Isaiah 66:24 (NIV): "And they will go out and look on the dead bodies of those who rebelled against me; the worms that eat them will not die, the fire that burns them will not be quenched, and they will be loathsome to all mankind." (even more explicit here) Psalm 9:17 (NIV): "The wicked go down to the realm of the dead, all the nations that forget God." Isaiah 33:14 (NIV): "The sinners in Zion are terrified; trembling grips the godless: 'Who of us can dwell with the consuming fire? Who of us can dwell with everlasting burning?'" (again cannot be more clear...) And i will add another verse that clearly states we will be judged by God: Jeremiah 17:10 (NIV): "I the Lord search the heart and examine the mind, to reward each person according to their conduct, according to what their deeds deserve." God is good and the most forgiving, as well as just. If God wanted us all to suffer eternally he would. If God wanted us all to rejoice eternally he would. He gave us free will for a reason, let us reflect on that, and be the best we can be on this earth.

[@edrabonsall8707]

So unbelievably smart! Miss him.

[@charlescarter2072]

Smart yet he gets it wrong in the video

[@joaquinbarreto9398]

And 40 something ppl like it 🤦‍♂️

[@user-mx4fh4zp6f]

​@@charlescarter2072no. He doesnt dipshit

[@braydensimmons1408]

You’ll maybe see him in hell

[@user-mx4fh4zp6f]

@@braydensimmons1408 there is no such place shit for brains

[@tomdebevoise]

Heaven and hell are all here in the present moment. Every day, war continues, new more poisonous drugs are sold to addicts. People are cured from previously incurable diseases, and wonderful works of art are created. It all happens in the present moment.

[@dodget3]

This is the closest anybody's gotten to it. Heaven and hell isn't something you experience after you die. The things you experience after life are most likely the same as the things you experienced before you were alive. With that being said there is an afterlife it's just experienced by everyone but the person who died.

[@IanM-id8or]

And no gods are involved with any of it

[@adsffdaaf4170]

​@@IanM-id8orjust sinful human beings living separate from god

[@LavidaLocaOriginal]

​@@dodget3Nice one.

[@tomdebevoise]

@dodget3 What I describe is actually a zen concept. Many zen schools emphasize self/no self concepts. The idea that your identity is an illusion: a construct of the world around you. Zen also strives to drop beliefs, calling them profound wishes something is true.

[@starcrib]

Bronze Age Religious Dogmas will bring Humanity to the Abyss. 📡--- ☄️☄️☄️

[@manguy01]

Biblically accurate statement.

[@hilkmeister1382]

I'm sorry, but that is incredibly stupid take. The biggest threats to the world are secular. We are not at Russia's throat because we disagree on faith, but because of politics and economics. This has always been the case, even for the Crusades. I am not claiming people don't do fucked up shit in the name of faith, but to claim faith will doom humanity is to ignore reality and history.

[@starcrib]

@@hilkmeister1382 🐩💨

[@hilkmeister1382]

@@starcrib Good one.

[@Jay-md6fk]

@@hilkmeister1382 people are so brainwashed by people like Hitchens that they don't realize how much misery has been inflicted on mankind in the name of atheism. If there is not God then all we are left with is opinions.

[@johnbrown1851]

I've thought the same thing. There is talk of love,, and then... The cruel doctrine.

[@bucksfan77]

In practice, what cruel doctrines do you speak of?

[@johnbrown1851]

@@bucksfan77 eternal torment. Most would think of that as cruel.

[@bucksfan77]

@johnbrown1851 Let me guess you don't believe in God, never practiced a faith and yet judge it like you know what you're talking about using your modernist secular logic as your rationale in thinking God is cruel? Humans are cruel. The soul crushing weight of modern times is cruel. Atheists are cruel. Before God told Adam and Eve not to eat the apple he said they could eat whatever they wanted.

[@dodget3]

​@@johnbrown1851"bUt YoU hAvE a ChOiCe" 😂😂😂

[@dodget3]

@@john22344 thou shalt not, not believe in me. 😆😅 In reality though every Christian in the world has jesus' message wrong. Jesus thought of King David as God, that was his claim to rule, he used the term "our Father in heaven" similar to the way we would use the word forefather. He was also known as Jesus son of David, which also explains what he meant when he said "the only way to get to the father is through me" I feel like that was something more akin to a political slogan, the point being that if they submitted to him he would be like King David.

[@PaulNolan-jq4bc]

It's all a load of old shit.

[@Logiconfire]

Booze soaked Hitch.

[@MrLove11590]

You sound pleasant, like most athiests.

[@PaulNolan-jq4bc]

@@MrLove11590 I don't need a sky daddy dictator and the threat of endless persecution to give me morals. Abraham at 600 years old got his sister pregnant.....Lot was on his daughter after his Mrs turned to salt.....Are yours based on that kind of shit?

[@PaulNolan-jq4bc]

@@Logiconfire That would be preferable to any kind of apologist for religion.

[@PaulNolan-jq4bc]

@@MrLove11590 Pay attention, your sky daddy dictator might want you to kill some people, including your own offspring. Abraham at 600 years old 😂 got his sister pregnant. Lot was onto his daughter after his mrs turned to salt 🤣 You have enough pleasant people to worry about already god botherer.

[@brightargyle8950]

This was one of the things that blew my mind when I really began to delve into the concept of hell and helped me get over a lifetime of fear of hell. Screw whoever first thought it was a good idea to start spreading that rubbish around.

[@LavidaLocaOriginal]

Spot on..

[@trevordillon1921]

I had the privilege of being raised without any sort of faith doctrine (my parents aren’t atheist, mind you, they just didn’t raise me as a Christian). My personal investigations into the faith were aides by a fairly diverse cast of perspectives, my highschool friends were mostly Christian but all of different religions. Two were orthodox, one was an unaffiliated believer raised by his family to believe in god but never a churchhoer, another was a typical modern evangelical. Beyond that, at University I met a group doing bible study, and amongst them found a great deal of different perspectives. I found myself fixated on the question of hell because it seemed paradoxical to me. How can the innocent be punished for that which they never knew, and the God who dictates such still be just and benevolent? Well the answer, as you know, was that the very idea of “Hell” had essentially been coopted as a scare tactic by Catholicism. And yeah, that’s who started spreading that rubbish around, although it’s origin isn’t so malicious as simply a blending of religions, the Catholic church rose from the roman faith, and had been shaped by the roman pantheons already. Hell’s striking resemblance to that of Hades is not a coincidence in the slightest. Nor, I should specify, is Heaven’s to Elysium. The idea of Heaven is similar misshapen. It is the eternal presence of god, as the bible provides evidence for, and nothing more.

[@withlessAsbestos]

Why were you afraid of Hell? The Gates of Hell did not Prevail against Christ and shall not against those who are free in him.

[@LavidaLocaOriginal]

@@withlessAsbestos I'm not afraid of "Hell", but hey life goes on 😉

[@withlessAsbestos]

@@LavidaLocaOriginal wasn’t responding to you, nor did I say you should be. If you don’t love God, why would you want to spend eternity with him?

[@francescoaccomando7781]

Daniel 12:2 Multitudes who sleep in the dust of the earth will awake: some to everlasting life, others to shame and everlasting contempt.

[@jonsinasac]

the Old Testament term Sheol is translated as "Hell" 31 times, and it is translated as "the grave" 31 times

[@madtabby66]

It doesn’t help when even the Jews have different opinions on it depending upon what they want. In some places it means the grave, in others it means a general afterlife and in some places it’s a place of torment. Depends which story you read.

[@jonsinasac]

@@madtabby66 Modern Jews you know? Because it rather clear in the old testament if you search for Sheol. It is the place of fire, darkness, sorrow and weeping. Sure the new testament is clearer but it is clear ancient jews got the concept.

[@WhoThisMonkey]

We can talk about clearer, but certainly not clear.

[@manguy01]

That's because it means both. Duh.

[@IanM-id8or]

Translated by people who believed in an afterlife, of course.

[@madtabby66]

Best response I’ve done was I was up for 48+ hours, moving, running on caffeine & anxiety. One showed up at the door. I told her I didn’t have time. She’s “don’t you care what happens when you die?” I started singing “the worms go in, the worms go out the worms play Pinochle on your snout!” But I have a question. For all the “god defends me and I have nothing to fear” why is it I can run them off by chanting random Latin phrases?

[@WhoThisMonkey]

May I have some caffeine and anxiety too?

[@Leotv19]

Because you seem crazy and God helps those who help themselves and you help yourself by making some distance.

[@plattbagarn]

​@@Leotv19why doesn't god help the ones that really need it instead? I would like for him to cure child leukemia, not take credit when I succeed at something. That would be a great way to prove himself.

[@Leotv19]

@@plattbagarn I think that’s more an issue of nations focusing on war opposed to helping people. I think God has given us the ability to cure it, we just haven’t prioritized it. A world killing each other can’t just have its issues taken away, we don’t grow as a species that way. It sucks children suffer during that I agree

[@plattbagarn]

@@Leotv19 What an absolutely loving god that invented child leukemia to teach us a lesson. Really good thing he invented apologists that will go out of their way to say he's a good guy for doing so. He doesn't have to show himself that way. You're caught in an abusive relationship. God hurts you and you've convinced yourself it's your fault.

[@iammaxwell5703]

”And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt.“ ‭‭Daniel‬ ‭12‬:‭2‬ This is Old Testament…

[@burdoch1]

very good. And actually only the 'lake of fire' is eternal punishment, hell is not.

[@IanM-id8or]

Which bit is that from? The part written in Hebrew or the part that was added later in order to pretend prophecies had come true which was written in Aramaic?

[@braydensimmons1408]

@@IanM-id8orwhat was added, and what prophesies for “fulfilled?”

[@johanb.7869]

@@IanM-id8or 3 different gospels and the bible is supposed to be the inspired word of god. Something doesn't add up.

[@nedcassley5169]

I hold Abraham Lincoln in contempt but don't believe it affects him in any way. He's dead and gone and only exists in artifacts and in human minds. Christians believe Abraham Lincoln exists eternally.

[@calebplumleeoutdoors]

We've spent so so so mich human effort on those damn books

[@hilkmeister1382]

Those damn books have helped more people than any nation, creed, or social welfare program.

[@donotreadthis26]

Except that's not true. Jesus Christ will redeem you if you just let him. Death before Christ was hell. Always and for everyone. Just an endless existence of immortal souls away from God. Christ did not introduce hell. He provided a means to escape it. That's why the first thing he did after his sacrifice was to lead all the rigtheous servants of God out of hell. Mr. Hitchens was wrong. Very wrong. And just because you say something wrong calmly in a british accent doesen't make it any less wrong.

[@ScottMapex]

And you have zero evidence to back up anything you just wrote. Which means it can also be dismissed without evidence. Have a good day.

[@donotreadthis26]

@@ScottMapex that's litterally what faith means. "Confident trust in the unseen" If you believe it improves your life to dismiss and deny the gospel, then good luck with that.

[@ScottMapex]

@@donotreadthis26 Doesn’t impact my life in any way because I simply don’t believe it’s true. Civilisation existed without religion , and it can exist without again. It’s a control structure which you’ve clearly fallen for.

[@donotreadthis26]

@@ScottMapex name a civilisation that existed without religion.

[@ScottMapex]

@@donotreadthis26 In the context of our conversation , I mean specifically Judaism & Christianity. And yes civilisations have existed without either. No believe in Jesus or your version of God.

[@carel20081]

I believe in the Easterbunny.

[@catcauldron217]

Harvey 😂🐰😂

[@robinharwood5044]

Of course. That chocolate doesn’t just pop out of nothing.

[@SayWhatAgainMF]

I like turtles.

[@robinharwood5044]

@@SayWhatAgainMF You’re in luck. It’s turtles all the way down.

[@anthonyjames3722]

Sugar plum fairy for me

[@skrukken]

I want to encourage everyone to actually look this up, and study it yourself. Hitchens had a lot of good points, but this one is just not one of them. It is simply just not true.

[@Seticzech]

How so?

[@skrukken]

@@Seticzech As I implied, it is not correct. We might be missing the context from the clip, but his statement about hell not appearing in the old testament is not true.

[@Seticzech]

@@skrukken Where is hell mentioned in old testament?

[@clint5622]

Daniel 12:2And many who sleep in the dust of the earth will awake, some to everlasting life, but others to shame and everlasting contempt. That’s Old Testament.

[@dzikijohnny]

Concept of hell is from Greek mythology. Which is understandable when you consider that the early Christians were Greek not Hebrew.

[@ryanrevland4333]

The author of Peter even refers to it as Tartarus. Come on people. This is Greek mythology!

[@SaintD382]

@@ryanrevland4333 2 Peter 2:4

[@tracimetcalf3374]

Tartarus and Hades were nothing like Hell .

[@whatthefunkingmcshit]

​@@tracimetcalf3374meh pretty close

[@dzikijohnny]

@@VoodooChild333 Lucifer just means MorningStar and doesn’t mean the devil. Even Martin Luther understood that there was even a Saint Lucifer. It’s only recently that it became the mean the devil.

[@edwardp3502]

Who the fuck came up with the psychotic idea of torturing dead people? Not enough suffering on earth? Absolutely insane.

[@SharkAcademy]

So you think Hitler suffered enough? You think molestors who molested their children for years and they never came out suffered enough?

[@Victor-xv7jh]

I'm guessing if you can threaten people with torture they would hang on to hope with the idea of an afterlife... So the tyrants devised the idea of an eternal pit to torment them further and it worked. Kinda like 1984, from what I understand anyways... Sad but true.

[@nealjroberts4050]

No benevolent creator god that created an afterlife would make hell the default.

[@Xerxes2005]

That's why He didn't.

[@billycharles]

The Hebrew word for Hell is mentioned 31 times in the OT. Hitchens is such a liar

[@nelsonclub7722]

Nope.

[@dafera]

@@VoodooChild333Sheol is hell, do your research

[@manthedan3096]

Daniel 12:2 references some going to everlasting shame and contempt

[@Ember_Prime]

It doesn’t actually come up. Sheol is not the word for hell, it describes being out of God’s presence. Hell as a concept wasn’t introduced until the New Testament, where the concept of eternal fire and damnation was added into the mix.

[@dafera]

@@Ember_Prime the Sheol is both heaven, and hell at the same time, it’s different regions, it’s both a place of blessings and torments Luke 16, then u have the lake of fire which is where the devil and others will go in the day of judgment which is described as a place of burning sulfur

[@lexsanderz]

Valhalla calls.

[@IanM-id8or]

Now I've got a scent from Erik the Viking in my head At the end of the movie when they get to Valhalla and find to the gods are children, there's a guy with an axe in his head saying "We're the lucky ones" because dying in battle meant they got to be in Valhalla rather than going to the underworld ;-) Loved that movie

[@hilkmeister1382]

The old testamont's version of hell does exist, but it is much more abstract than the fire and brimstone version we see hell as today. To the Jews, who go off only the Old Testament, Hell is distance from God. Essentially, if you reject God, then he will reject you, and because it is their belief that all good things stem from God, all good things cease to happen. So it is not a place but a state of being. It is my belief that we created the fire and brimstone version as an explanation for pagans and other nonbelievers who could not grasp that concept.

[@user-kh4mx5pr8d]

Nope. It's Sheoul, meaning grave. All went, good, bad all went. Sorry, but go and take your bullshit argument to a Rabbi and watch him tear you to shreads. The OT isn't about us. It's about Isreal and its people. Guess who told me that...hint rhymes with Abbi.

[@user-ft4jp1yq5f]

What a man.. I cant hear enough of him.. Saddly he is gone

[@theironknight597]

"And when he invented Hell...lo, Hell was his Heaven on Earth"; he could put up with suffering now, by contemplating the eternal punishment of his oppressors in the other world." -Thus Spoke Zarathustra, by Friedrich Nietzsche Religon has evolved, it is as though we have been sharpening a knife for ourselves. The above quote I feel, describes the preaching of Muhammad especially early on.

[@withlessAsbestos]

Which is exactly why all the most primitive societies practice some form of Mono-or-Henotheism, because clearly everyone has had the same exact wrong idea all over the world since the end of the Pleistocene…

[@thirdand11]

I think, “God being done with you,” would be hell.

[@brianmiller5444]

given the horrid reality He supposedly created, being done with Him would be a relief. Do you want to spend eternity with the creator of tse-tse flies, parasites, and tornados?

[@ericdrasmussen]

In the King James Bible, the Old Testament term Sheol is translated as "Hell" 31 times and it is translated as "the grave" 31 times.

[@user-gu6ps6ed6l]

So the New testament is when Jesus pulled out the pistola and started holding it to everyone's head worshiped me. Sounds about right.

[@raymondlyons8492]

What a ridiculous thing to say, obviously you never studied anything of real value, About the new Testament.

[@edwarddowning6592]

Psalm 9:17 (KJV) The wicked shall be turned into hell and all the nations that forget god. He was lying

[@hilkmeister1382]

May have been simply mistaken.

[@KasperKatje]

Nope, don't forget KJV is an English translation from way after the Christian concept of hell was introduced. The original word is Sjeol, meaning realm of the dead. In many translations the word grave is used.

[@edwarddowning6592]

@@KasperKatje really hell is mentioned many times it can be translated differently however Hell is mentioned in the Old Testament you can’t just say hell isn’t mentioned when it is it is simply a lie

[@IanM-id8or]

@@edwarddowning6592 The word is 'Sheol'. It means 'grave'. It was mistranslated by Christians through the lens of their particular beliefs, which were influenced more by Greek myth than by Judaism. Are you being deliberately ignorant?

[@twistofcain_666]

​@@edwarddowning6592Considering Jews have no concept of the Christian Hell. That proves it right there.

[@skidmark6348]

God is the unknown, people fear the unknown until it is known, then it ceases to be God.

[@Ferrari308-GTSi]

The only penalty that is called out in the Bible for a refusal of God's authority in your life is separation from Him. All we know is that God cannot be in the presence of sin. So in the next life, if we refuse to submit ourselves to God's authority in our mortal life, then we will live the next life, whatever that is, separated from Him. That is the choice we make.

[@edwardcook2973]

Considering that God is omnipresent, meaning existing everywhere all at once, how are you going to find a place in the entire universe where God is not present?

[@Ferrari308-GTSi]

@@edwardcook2973 If you choose to believe that God exists and that what He says in the Bible is true, then you know that God can turn His back on someone. He actually did it to Jesus Christ. While Jesus was on the cross taking the sins of all humanity onto himself, he asked God why He had forsaken him. I don't claim to know why God cannot be in the presence of sin. I just take that on faith. I don't have to understand everything or have all the answers.

[@nogodsnomasters.5935]

Don’t waste my time. Christopher Hitchens

[@ChalvosClifford]

Close minds lead to a tyrannical government 😢. He's not wasting your time, he's saving you from bullying people with a non-sense bible idea.

[@Gordon_River]

And yet, here you are taking time to comment.

[@ChalvosClifford]

@@Gordon_River and...why wouldn't I? It's not a waste of time to me obviously. Do you mean responding to @nogodsnomasters 5935? He doesn't matter. Posting my opinion on this matters.

[@MrReasonabubble]

@@ChalvosClifford you misunderstand him. He's on your side. The clue is in his username. He's not telling Hitchens not to waste his time - he's quoting what Hitchens said in response to some of the more outlandish claims of a religious text (if I remember correctly, it was the Quran, although he may have said the same thing about other religious claims). Admittedly, the original comment would have been less confusing if he'd actually used quotation marks.

[@Logiconfire]

His time was a waste.

[@dunweyweydum]

Wow look at all the 'godly folk' wishing eternal damnation 😅😅😅 That your problem > Hate

[@somethingtothinkabout167]

If there is no hell and God specifically tells men not to take vengence because He will see to it, are you advocating we actually do seek vegence in this life because the wicked will escape any punishment for their sins?

[@kevinh2345]

Your own comment is poorly veiled contempt. I understand the urge to express hatred of others, but condemning them while doing it yourself is counterproductive.

[@user-rb8td1lw8y]

Maybe it’s more compassionate to tell people they are going to hell than to commit genocide though 🤔

[@waynehieatt5962]

Hel is a much later germanic invention....came into christianity when the Germanic speakers were christianised.

[@applesauce.6011]

Its not tortuting the dead, its their consequence.

[@user-kh4mx5pr8d]

Would you torture your kids for eternity?!

[@andrewlitow]

It being their consequence doesn’t stop it from being torture.

[@littlebitofhope1489]

For what? Being the creature that your god supposedly created? Sounds like HE should be punished for screwing up. Talk about victim blaming.

[@applesauce.6011]

@@andrewlitow uh are you dumb? No it's not it's God seperating himself from them because they don't want to be with him

[@applesauce.6011]

@@littlebitofhope1489 for being sinful and not wanting to live with God, if Jesus didn't die no one would be going to heaven we are all sinners if you ask why God can't forgive everyone that's simple, because he's just and if he were to do that he wouldn't be just

[@DaRobbery]

The bible taught me to be a non believer. I grew up with the basic belief in god as most people do, my parents and most of my family (aunts/uncles etc..) didn't go to church, they didn't harp on religion but it was understood that everyone believed in god and specifically Christianity/Jesus etc.., we would watch the ten commandments around Christmas time, occasionally might go to church with grandma on the "high holidays", said Grace with grandma at holiday dinners, then at age 22 I got deeply involved into a southern Baptist church, later I became a volunteer Sunday school teacher, volunteer youth director, and other church volunteer activities, and it only took me 3yrs of being a Sunday school and witnessing constant hypocrisy among the church elders (and every religious person i ever knew) to figure out that the bible/religion is total 🐂💩 with multiple contradictions, I didn't realize it at the time but as I was learning more & more about the bible in order to teach it, I was actually learning the things that would eventually cause me to become agnostic which later turned me towards atheism. Again, the bible, preachers, church elders, and every so called christian I know turned me away from religion, but it was mostly the bible, because I understand that humans are not perfect, but when I realized the this instruction manual (the bible) made no sense whatsoever us when I couldn't in good conscience continue to believe this 🐂💩

[@Leotv19]

Because you joined a Protestant heretic cult

[@VoodooChild333]

​@@Leotv19 Most christian denominations are cults, because christianity itself is a cult.

[@Logiconfire]

Hurt feelings.

[@Leotv19]

@@Logiconfire bro was totally touched

[@DaRobbery]

@Logiconfire ooh nice insult, so you're one of those "good christians", thanks for reminding that you're all hypocrites and that I made the correct choice.

[@jmorrison44601]

He is correct the only thing discussed about Hell in the old testament is One of the earliest references to a place of punishment in the afterlife in the Bible is found in the Old Testament, in the Hebrew Scriptures. The Hebrew word "Sheol" is often translated as "Hell" in some English versions of the Bible, but it more accurately refers to the grave or the realm of the dead, rather than a place of punishment.

[@martybreeden6116]

Sadly, he knows better now

[@manmadegods007]

How I miss this erudite gem! I would love to hear him deconstruct Trump

[@mickratters8073]

My sister used to be a devout Christian. But when her first born son committed suicide she believed it was a test of her faith. Then later, when her other son died of brain cancer, she gave up on him and became an atheist. Only Satan would be so cruel to one of his believers. So we got her back again to sanity, thankfully.

[@yo-pb4dm]

Hey Man im sorry to hear that. If you ever talk with your sister just let her know she’s in my thoughts, and you too.😊

[@beastlycrawdad6412]

God isn’t cruel. We live in a cruel world that needs a redeemer. You’re saying the same thing Job’s friends said to him when everything was taken from him. Curse God and die. No matter what happened to Job he stayed faithful. God was proud of that. Satan was cruel however and wanted to rip that man to shreds. God doesn’t want to hurt people. Satan wants to destroy as many people as possible. Satan is cruel to his followers because he knows he’s leading them to hell. All he cares about is taking as many people with him as possible.

[@petershingleton8883]

​@@beastlycrawdad6412there is no hell , listen to Chris,

[@samael5782]

Satan is less cruel than the God of the bible.

[@petershingleton8883]

@@samael5782 SATAN AND GOD DON'T EXIST, YOUR DELUDED!!!!!

[@ChodeEnergy]

Christopher found one religion he didn’t hate. He’s alluding to it here.

[@HaleStorm49]

In this video it's the dead torturing the living. This gentleman has a very loose grasp on the topic.

[@bucksfan77]

Jesus Christ is the King of Kings. I am so thankful for Him everyday!

[@TurinTuramber]

Cedric the space snail is the king of kingly kings of all kingdomsphere. Why not thank him?

[@bucksfan77]

@TurinTuramber The entire western civilization is centrally rooted in the teachings of Jesus Christ. It's so inbedded into society that you do things everyday without ever thinking about it that you only do because of Christ and Christianity. And yet are now, because of modern technology, arrogant enough not to acknowledge it. Also, condescension and mockery are the verbal weapons of the weak

[@VoodooChild333]

Jesus would have literally slapped you for calling him king. Learn who he was instead of worshipping what you've been told.

[@joaquinbarreto9398]

@@TurinTuramberdon’t be a fool and Repent. You’re marching toward death.

[@TurinTuramber]

@@joaquinbarreto9398 Following your own logic, have you made any recent offerings to Artemis? Have you earned Odin's blessing? How many times have you thanks lord Vishnu this week? Unless you think those Gods are made up superstitious nonsense...

[@rossurquhart1238]

I know God is real because of my experience. I was a stubborn atheist until I met someone who led me to Jesus and my life was transformed I was born again and filled with the Holy Ghost with the evidence of speaking in tongues I was fill with an amazing love, joy and peace which I had never experienced in my life, I knew my sins were forgiven. I knew God was real from that moment and that he would never leave me. I asked my new friends what has happened to me what is this language I'm speaking and they said " you've received the baptism of the Holy Ghost and they showed me in the Bible Acts chapters 1 and 2 where Jesus said to his apostles wait in Jerusalem until you receive power from on high and on the day of Pentecost the Holy Ghost was first poured out on the apostles and they began to speak in tongues and preach with power and boldness and perform miracles of healing and even raising people from the dead as Jesus did. In Peter's first sermon to the Jews he said " Repent and be baptised every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of your sins and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost " I believe the Bible is true because of what I experienced, plus hundreds of prophecies in the Bible have been fulfilled and are being fulfilled before our very eyes. Call on Jesus when you pray instead of Allah and you will know he is the way the truth and the life as he said. He also said" heaven and earth shall pass away but my Words shall never pass away." there's only one true and living God the Almighty Creator of the heavens and the earth my friend and he loves you so much he gave his only begotten son to die for your sins and mine that we might be reconciled to God.

[@joaquinbarreto9398]

Amen brother!

[@edwarddowning6592]

Thank you for your testimony. Amen

[@happymaskedguy1943]

A ‘stubborn atheist’. Funny. Because so far as I know, you can’t stubbornly hold a non-position. You believe something or you don’t.

[@aking4130]

What about the prophecies that never came true? What does that prove?

[@tylerberube5668]

The use of the word "stubborn athiest' is evident that you were not actually athiest.

[@JRTIGER07]

🔥🔥🔥 *Isaiah 66:24* 🔥🔥🔥

[@johnjoe1934]

He ran his mouth. God called his bluff. He learnt the error of his ways. He begged for forgiveness. God is King.

[@sincereflowers3218]

Don’t you feel gross defending such an evil god? Merely because a man thinks differently you say he deserves death? Christians fall short of Christ from birth.

[@rossurquhart1238]

Now Hitch is dead he knows how wrong he was. Jesus said " Seek and you shall find " The very first time I tried to find God he came into my heart and I hadn't even read a page from the bible, but I had reached a point where I was willing to give it a go having tried just about everything this world has to offer. I saw the joy and peace my new friends had found through turning not to religion, but to Jesus himself. Prayer is a bit like meditation only we are not looking within for light, but looking up to the Divine and opening our hearts and minds to him. God is a Spirit and he wants to live in our hearts and shine his light through us to others. It's a fallen world we live in, God didn't create it this way in the beginning people were pure and innocent like children, until they disobeyed and went their own way, this brought the curse upon us and all kinds of hardship. But it's actually for our benifit. Im glad now that I went through hard times, cause it caused me to search for a better life and a better way and I found God and was filled with his Spirit his love, joy and peace. It's not religion, but relationship.

[@Hexon66]

How sad it is that you have to find solace in believing someone is suffering to support your childish fairy tale.

[@jameschapman6559]

You keep believing that b.s. Some of us have finally left that craziness behind.

[@jackywhite880]

How sick, to need to resort to a threat of eternal torture to support your pathetic mythology...

[@Emperorhirohito19272]

Something that is pure and perfect cannot possibly become not pure and not perfect. Silly illogical premise your entire religion is based on.

[@s.novozhilov1856]

​@@Emperorhirohito19272Freedom is not perfection, but love. We have been perfect and free, but then we freely choose Satan who promised us to be like God. We were made pure, but it doesn't mean we cant loose that purity through free choice

[@thedynamicsolo4232]

He was leveled by John Lennox and still was a defiant rebel.

[@vladtheemailer3223]

John Lennox has only leveled people who stood between him and the buffet.

[@Affliatesusan]

And why was Satan fighting over Moses body with Jesus if there’s no punishment

[@Mike_Wilson_KJV]

Hitch fell in the Ditch. Sadly for him, he knows better now.

[@Yellowshark33]

No he doesn't. He's dead

[@IanM-id8or]

So, you're saying that you believe in and actually worship a being who would happily torture the dead for eternity? What's wrong with you?!?

[@Mike_Wilson_KJV]

​@@IanM-id8or Au Contraire! The real question is: What is wrong with you? Your understanding, like Hitchens, of what the Bible teaches on the subject is warped. In Ezekiel 33, GOD says HE has no pleasure in the death of the wicked. In Matthew 25, GOD will say to the wicked, "Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels." The Lake of Fire was NOT prepared for us; GOD made it to punish the devil and the 1/3 fallen angels who chose to leave Heaven and follow the devil. The real question is: Why do so many people CHOOSE to follow the devil and his angels to their end; knowing that their end is to be burned? Sadly for Hitchens, that was the choice that he made for himself. Anyone who believes in his/her own Goodness or Self Righteousness will fall short of GOD's Standard, and that person will loose his/her soul in the end; hence, we all need a Saviour to save us from that fate. Jesus is the Saviour; those who reject HIM will stand alone for GOD's Judgement, and GOD has already said in Romans that all have sinned and come short of the Glory of GOD, and the wages of sin is death. You should try reading the King James Bible for yourself, and stop listening to what the Blind Guides (like Hitchens, Dawkins, etc.) say about it; you may actually learn something.

[@Mike_Wilson_KJV]

@@IanM-id8or I've tried twice to reply to you and point out the errors of your argument but the Free Speech Haters of CensorTube keep deleting my comments. Needless to say, the Bible does not teach the idea that you have stated; in fact, it teaches the opposite.

[@user-mx4fh4zp6f]

😅😅😅😅 im sure hes fine just experiencing nothing because there is no such thing as an afterlife shit for brains

[@user-cs3ub8bn8m]

Fear tactics, just love one another 😊

[@karlareadstheclassics217]

I wish he was still with us. 😢

[@IanM-id8or]

He's still with us in KZbin memes

[@WalterCook-kw7jn]

He'll, he'll is for children.

[@nealfager8126]

There are no holy weeks or holy days of the week.

[@beastlycrawdad6412]

Daniel 12:2 [2] And many of those who sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt. Hell is real. It might not be mentioned by name in the OT but it is referenced.

[@Søutħsidë]

This is how I debate theists in my dreams.

[@MusicGoodies-]

This guy knows there is a hell now 😢

[@Yellowshark33]

No he doesn't. He's dead

[@MusicGoodies-]

@@Yellowshark33 He sure does 😥

[@IWillHaveThePastaThanks]

Ah, fluent in Christianese, I see. A dead giveaway for a Christ-like Christian.

[@IanM-id8or]

No, he doesn't. He's dead. Dead people know nothing. Ecclesiastes 9:5 Don't you people ever read your own book?

[@happymaskedguy1943]

Only a Christian would even suggest such a vile thing. And then feign sadness about it. Disgusting, gloating behaviour.

[@user-fk6lf6yy4s]

The confidence to which he spoke outside his expertise is astounding, and somewhat embarrassing.

[@Logiconfire]

The certainty of an alcoholic.

[@relativetruth8889]

What's embarrassing is an adult believing a talking snake ever existed.

[@josephbelisle5792]

Outside his expertise? How do you qualify that statement? He studied faith and religion. He's read the holy books more than 98% of the faithful. What more qualifications does he need? Face it. The only thing you would consider someone who qualifies is someone who believes as you do. This is theism. Not truth. Not evidence. Not critical thinking. Just blind support for what you want to believe. This is sad as it sacrifices everything for desire and want.

[@s.novozhilov1856]

If God will open doors of Hell and offer people to get out and join Lord in Heaven, citizens of Hell will shut the door. Hell is locked from inside, not outside. God respects people choices , its his love and justice

[@brandondavidson4085]

The OT definitely talks about Hell, it's called Sheol, which is the "grave" and refers to where souls go. Gehenna is mentioned in Isaiah 30:33 where a sinful king's soul will be sent to a valley full of fire, and again in Isaiah 66:24 and Jeremiah 7:30-33. Also, the Gospels of the New Testament are pretty strong evidence for what Ancient Jews believed 2,000 years ago, corresponding to Mosaic prohibitions on magic, necromancy, and speaking with the dead. I just love how Hitches just talks out of his butt about Christianity without ever having truly studied any part of the Bible.

[@bme7491]

There 's no mention of hell in the earliest copies of the new testament.

[@ryanrevland4333]

There's a few references in Mark. Not as vivid as Matthew's revision but Mark 9:43-47 has Jesus suggesting it's better to cut off your hand /foot, or gouge out an eye if causes you to sin. Better to enter the Kingdom of God maimed than have them both in hell. Mark 16 is a later forgery but it says the unbaptized non-believers will be "condemned".

[@roknful]

​@ryanrevland4333 no sky daddy. Our reality is so beautiful if u only look at it with logic and facts. Science is facts, religion is faith. Educate yourself we are in 2024. Please dont teach future generations this folly.

[@ryanrevland4333]

Same team bro! I'm just pointing out that our earliest gospel does mention hell. Matthew expands on Mark introducing the "weeping and gnashing of teeth". Luke tones it down and John doesn't mention it. @@roknful

[@DivineAccuracy1611]

@@ryanrevland4333 I’m pretty sure that most scholars believe mark was written first.

[@ryanrevland4333]

They absolutely do and it's easy to prove.@@DivineAccuracy1611

[@HarryNicNicholas]

everyone seems to assume satan is going to be horrid. if i go to hell then GOD is "punishing me" for my sins, but why would satan want to punish me too? satan despises christians. if i'm being punished by satan, then satan is doing god's work - that makes zero sense. hell is more likely to be eternity having more fun than you ever could on earth, this is what god hates, heaven will just be eternal worship, satan is SAVING you from an eternity of boredom and slavery. i see no reason why hell wouldn't be a great place to be, no mind control, no ten commandments to follow, just eternal life that you can probably quit if you get bored with learning guitar from hendrix or trying to grasp relativity from einstein. why would hell be undesirable? why would satan want to torment me - he detests god and christians, not sinners.

[@johnkearney3522]

Jesus started all this punishing the dead malarkey

[@sreynolds777]

The one who is risen from the dead knows from where He speaks. Oh foolish ones we can be, blinded by our own “wisdom”. There is a judgement to come, but the Creator of all things is filled with greater love and compassion than you’ve ever even conceived reaches down in humanity and bears the iniquity of us all. For anyone who will receive this incredible mercy and return to Him, will pass from death to life - but those who do not, will remain as they are for eternity reaping the just reward. He calls out to you, whoever you are to come to Him.

[@julieferguson9986]

The old testament did have forms of justice, there were general consequences, banishments, military conquests, floods, the earth opened up and swallowed people, Sodom and Gomorra were destroyed by fire. Evil will and has been meet with justice, and justice in the end will give a reckoning of all evil. Some however will find forgiveness if they truly seek it and instead of justice they will find grace.

[@vincentbacarella2076]

I think hell is mentioned in the Old Testament, but they called it perdition. I believe it's mentioned in both psalm and proverb

[@davidsanstad9846]

Such a joyous person speaking SO highly of his twisted narrative!

[@kevin-en2pi]

They had to invent hell to scared people to believe

[@hailholyqueen]

Hitch is the Martin Luther of atheism.

[@granadosvm]

He is absolutely correct. Genesis talks about an earthly god that lives above and is visible to man. No heaven, no earth, the options are eternal life or death. That's why when Cain kills Abel, god gives him a mark, so other human would know not to kill him, so he does not find in death, relief from his punishment. No hell for Cain, the concept of hell was not added until it was imported from other religions around them.

[@kutya9407]

How about getting the facts right before accusing religion of cruelty seven ways of Sunday? Satan has engulfed this man's heart.

[@kyle--859]

What fact has he gotten wrong?

[@kutya9407]

@@kyle--859 That there is no mention of hell in the Old Testament. Yes, the word hell is not mentioned in the Old Testament or anywhere in the Bible actually. Instead you have descriptions of two kinds of places people can go after they die: a good place and a bad place, and God is the judge. This is clear from Isaiah 66, Daniel 12, etc. Also, the reason the old testament gives people all these moral laws to follow and instructions to ask for forgiveness in prayer and sacrifice animals, build altars, etc. is because the concept of hell and judgement are evident in the Old Testament.

[@marcdc6809]

in one post you mention the word fact and you mention an imaginary character, it would be a better world of if people would stop claiming that their delusions are reality

[@wet-read]

The notion of being punished after you die is sick, sick, sick.

[@guitardrummer321]

Sheol was the "realm of the dead" in the Old Testament. There's also a distinction made between Abraham's Bosom (a place of peace) and Gehenna (a place of disgust and burning both literal and symbolic). The lake of fire is only explicitly named in the book of Revelations and is a final place of punishment after Judgment Day. There's plenty of debate around the topic. Jesus clearly references the lake of fire numerous times. Some don't think that people die and go straight to heaven or hell until Judgment Day, that they are simply in Sheol until then.

[@grantandrew619]

Hell is for kiddies

[@Menacetothekingdomofdarkness]

There ARE references to a place of punishment or separation from God for the wicked. One example is in the book of Daniel, where it mentions a resurrection to everlasting life or everlasting contempt (Daniel 12:2). Another example is in the book of Isaiah, where it talks about the punishment of the wicked in the afterlife (Isaiah 66:24). These passages suggest a form of punishment or judgment for the wicked after death, although the concept of hell as eternal conscious torment is more developed in the New Testament since God himself incarnated in Human Form

[@JimDoubleYa]

Isaiah 66:24: “And they will go out and look on the dead bodies of those who rebelled against me; the worms that eat them will not die, the fire that burns them will not be quenched, and they will be loathsome to all mankind.” Daniel 12:1-3. “At that time Michael, the great prince who protects your people, will arise. There will be a time of distress such as has not happened from the beginning of nations until then. But at that time your people-everyone whose name is found written in the book-will be delivered. 2 Multitudes who sleep in the dust of the earth will awake: some to everlasting life, others to shame and everlasting contempt. AND then Job AND Nahum and so on...

[@user-wn9in4nv5x]

I had an imaginary friend in kindergarten.

[@szaharfy]

“land of gloom and deep darkness” (Book of Job 10:21). “So I tried to understand why the wicked prosper. But what a difficult task it is! Then I went into your sanctuary, O God, and I finally understood the destiny of the wicked” (Psalm 73:16-17 NLT). If you are doubting God ask him to be real in your life.

[@Music-el7if]

Simple-minded read of what Jesus was saying.

[@dmm6341]

Genesis chapter 3 is where the whole picture of the redemption over death (separation from God) through the Saviour is laid out......death no longer has a sting. He was so intelligent, but do spiritually dead😢

[@matthew953]

Daniel 12:2 [2]And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt.

[@kyle--859]

That says many, not all. Don't all go to heaven or hell?

[@sherriffbridgessteele667]

Testament is one of my favorite bands, so i love both old and new material! And this old dude talking about Thrash Metal band surprised me

[@keithangietaylor713]

He has all the answers now.

[@biggbeefer]

No one is afraid of your fairytale

[@user-ux5zd8ii5c]

Sure let's forget about this: Psalm 9:17(nkjv) The wicked shall be turned into hell, all the [a]nations that forget God. The way i see it the old testament mentioned hell the new testament explains it

[@ryannoble4789]

Made people uncomfortable by challenging the ao called accepted truth.

[@user-fk4gz5sd2t]

Sheol. In the King James Bible, the Old Testament term Sheol is translated as "Hell" 31 times,

[@flymoolahman2763]

God will not have a disobedient unforgiven sinner in his kingdom that is for sure

[@hakunahmatata9103]

Hell is referenced in the Old Testament…. It was not invented by Jesus.

[@IanM-id8or]

Sheol is mentioned in the OT. It was translated as "Hell" by Christians. That's not it's original meaning. Also, of COURSE it wasn't invented by Jesus. NOTHING was invented by Jesus. The Jesus of the Bible - whether or not there was an historical Yeshua bin Yusef - is entirely fictional. Hell (Hades) was invented by the Greeks and adopted by Christianity - and for some reason given the name of the Norse underworld

[@edwardcook2973]

​@@VoodooChild333 Your argument has no validity, because the Dead Sea Scrolls have proven the "modern" translations of the Old Testament are indeed accurate, and there are at least 31 passages describing or referencing hell found in the Old Testament, also known as the Torah.

[@VoodooChild333]

@@edwardcook2973 Sheol has no relation to the modern concept of hell, do your research.

[@scottschaft1538]

When a clever man misses the point of something so deeply profound it makes you wonder how smart he actually was. This is very simple to anyone who has thought about it from the side of good.

[@buzzbrutusexcelsior2236]

The biblical author's descendants are still pretty nasty.

[@RaimusValsondra]

The human imagination can describe the most hideous scenarios. And left unchecked for thousands of years...

[@RoseSharon7777]

The greek word for hell is hades. Hades is simply the grave. All those who chose to go there will end up there. They PERISH forever. There is no eternal burning or torture. Its called hyperbolic language. A lot of allegory and metaphor got literalized over the centuries and simply are allegory. I.e. the virgin birth, the crucifixion, the physical body resurrection. All meant as allegory but ended up as literalized stories.

[@kevinh2345]

Ah yes, my favorite ignorant yet flowery rhetorical atheist. Nobody taught him of the book of jubilees, where doctrines of heaven and he'll are fleshed out from a pre-Christian context. Hitchens really just seemed to be fighting American protestantism while ignoring the historical churchm

[@user-uu8bs8tg1k]

We all know where he is.

[@juanzapata9915]

May God had mercy on him , great mind but lost in the world

[@flymoolahman2763]

So he thinks unforgiven sinners that didn’t seek the One true God when they lived still get to be with God after they died? All I saw in the Old Testament was how corrupted we are from sin, not one human in the Old Testament was without sin, it was God’s patience and good will that he put up with it and forgave us for not listening to him and treating him like a get out of jail free card. I won’t judge anyone, that’s not for me to do, but not 1 person was without sin until Jesus Christ, and not one person is without sin up to now. This is our opportunity he has given us to come to Jesus Christ with faith alone and let him save us. I’m shamed for how horribly we treated our everything, God is our everything and we treated him like that. I pray to my God that I can be better than that, and I won’t ever be without Him I know that for a fact.

[@Emperorhirohito19272]

You can redefine eternal torture all you want, it remains an evil thing to do to someone.

[@gregorycarlile5139]

What is hideous and obscene in his feeble mind is justice. He is finding all about that now.