Why The Volume Recommendations For Muscle Growth Might Be Wrong

[@LuisPedro9]

Summary: Most people will see most gains while doing 5-10 hard sets per muscle per week. Doing more, for example, 10-20 hard sets per week, will probably induce more gains, though logarithmically less. We don’t really know where the diminishing gains start to begin, could be 35 sets or more.

[@Dr_OzoneTV]

Volume is a bell curve, we are recommended generally 4-6 hard sets a session are the sweet spot before gains do not get registered

[@Dr_OzoneTV]

7m 35s he discussed the 'volume budget' before regression/plateau

[@ValDJesus]

That is assuming that lifters can maintain intensity throughout each set to begin with. And you can see this in most lifters, at very high volumes it's almost impossible to keep intensity.

[@Cooowop]

Its so interesting we just were at 6-8 sets/week for nattys and now hearing this hmmm i feel like there is so much nuance per person per muscle group. Makes sense that eventually surpassing 8 sets will = more gains but gotta work up to it. more experiments time 💪

[@IvanM272]

It's because most people are not advanced, especially the natural ones. Naturals usually get stuck at beginner intermeadiate phase or intermediate, because they think they need to get stronger to get bigger. Another reason is the fact that they believe they don't need to make their work capacity better, hence why some people can handle only a few hard sets like the guy above talking about 4-6 hard sets a session. That's not enough for someone advanced. When it comes the day that you can do 16-20 hard sets of a muscle per week, recover and progress with that, that's the day you will get so big as a natural that people will think you're doing steroids. The phases that i want my upper back (already a strong point) to get even bigger, i go up to 24 sets per week. The fact that people today think that's impossible is an indication that these methods got lost (old school) because a bunch of powerlifters decide to dominate fitness and spread a lot of lies around. I suggest people find the Ditillo blog and eat that information. Like everything, they will find out how naturals trained to look incredible jacked. I will not name any of them here, just find out. Just a hint: They're much bigger than what you think and all that musclet was not made with 4-6 hard sets per session twice a week, not even only 20 sets. But nobody is ready for this talk, let alone for this kind of work because they still call the exercises that are not the first one on their session "acessories". So if you're reading this and want to be as big as possible, stop following this low volume BS you're doing. Never noticed how better and how you got bigger after a high volume phase? You get beat up doing high volume, dont recover from that and as soon as you go back to the lower volume you get bigger, stronger and feel better again. "It must be that my body responds to low volume", you say, but it was really that? Or actually what made you get bigger, stronger and better than ever was the high volume phase you used to overreach and than you backed off to let you body supercompesate? I will let you guys think about it. So, i hope anyone reading this go after to up your own work capacity, to handle more volume, maybe you can become an advanced natural one day and look like someone on steroids. Like me and a few guys around, it's sad that not many get there. Or you can call me crazy, doubt what im saying and keep stuck at the beginner intermediate phase because you WILL stop making strength gains, that progress will get SLOW to absurd levels. So how the hell you're going to grow huh? How you will keep progressing? Volume. So go read some Ditillo and find ways to up your work capacity to get really big.

[@xroyalblood5472]

It'll be 2050 and we'll still be debating optimal volume lol

[@jccoachingpodcast7517]

its the hardest thing currently for studies. you need willing participants that are able to stay consistent with the other variables (diet, sleep, hydration, etc.) and are also experienced in the gym. then its a decently long study, so keeping all variables constant for a long period of time is alot to ask for a participant. lastly, who is funding all of that...

[@alexdavis9324]

That's the beauty of science.

[@FrankH3bert]

I always wondered why the army never made such serious research. they have the means to control every variables with a lot of large samples and they don't have to pay them more than the usual of course hypertrophy for esthetic is not the aim for soldiers but a mix of muscle strength and size is key for performance and injury prevention

[@litterbox2010]

@@FrankH3bert muscle strength isn't very important for modern militaries. As long as you can carry your load and an injured comrade there's not much purpose in being 'strong'. You're far better off having endurance, agility and especially intelligence.

[@Bunny11344]

So there’s no answer? Just asking cause I don’t have time on my break to watch this whole video

[@codybolo7803]

Brad seemed nervous to be on camera and mike seemed nervous to be around brad lmao. Awesome video, bring mr schoenfeld back for more

[@RobertChris_Obi]

I assume it’s because Brad is a vampire

[@ReizokoRyu]

"Vampires , hello"

[@outsiderdf]

Think that's just how he talks.

[@Agnes135]

He takes seminars across the world, I'm sure he's not nervous to be on camera lol. Mike has known him for years as well

[@yipperdeyip]

Oh Christ. It's this Brad doofus. Dude doesn't even know how to go to failure and does studies on volume and failure training. It's pathetic that people still take him seriously

[@ActualHumanPerson]

I like how Dr mike made sure his lighting was perfect for himself.

[@hashimseyyid951]

This comment should be pinned

[@reoov3798]

compensating for something when dr. Schoenfeld shows up 😉

[@BroPeep]

Hes an angel

[@Wstarlights]

But Dr. Brad has a powerful glowing white claw that dominates anything that goes against the family. And I think that was the whole message here.

[@dumpsterdiverdetector]

pretty sure the other guy looks like death in any lighting

[@ryannewby4061]

Dr Mike is nervous in the presence of Chad Brad

[@Conighttonight]

Yo, I would be too 😅

[@michaeltagor4238]

Honestly I feel like I'm hearing like a king like the leper king talking when he talks I feel like I should kneel with torso as low as my hips and focus on listening, his voice his articulation dawgg this guy is a legend I might have to learn more about him

[@LUKA_911]

​@@michaeltagor4238✋️🙂‍↕️

[@flow1188]

everyone who is interested in science based training. His Brain is a Muscle

[@PuppetMasterdaath144]

you basement dwellers need help

[@legeekessayiste7015]

Nice to see a father and son moment

[@Al-gc9ul]

All that's missing is the grandson 😂

[@stuart124]

Just need Jared for the whole family!

[@arekhusarz1731]

​Jared is definitely a grandson

[@brunofraysse421]

😂😂😂😂 nailed!!!

[@ron5846]

🤣🤣🤣

[@johnrobinson4445]

Most interesting point: maintenance can be achieved at VERY low volumes: 1/9th volume for younger people, 1/3 for older people.

[@IncredibleMet]

But what is normal volume?

[@AoIndigo]

@@IncredibleMet This is done in comparison to the volume you're been doing to progress and achieve your current gains. So it's 1/9th and 1/3rd of whichever your volume was while putting on size.

[@known8172]

Finally some insights on individuals that have struggle to gain with "normal" training protocols. There are muscle groups that didn´t grow for me and others did. Things changed when I noticed that my recovery is so much better in the muscle groups that grow less and I added more sets (even a ton more for calves and triceps) and then they started to grow.

[@Shane.Lambert]

Why is this video only 19 mins long????? Need more!

[@Jay-js5ik]

Why? These guys talk about the same sht over and over. I mean do you really think if you adjusted your volume by a couple or few sets a week, that it would result in any sort of noticeable difference? It’s astonishing to me how difficult these guys want to make working out seem.

[@zcrickz2982]

@@Jay-js5ikIf you are interested in understanding the scientific part about the things you are doing, the content is great even if its the same kind of knowledge that is still known, I don’t see a problem with this, just let people enjoy what they like.

[@0scottzack]

@@Jay-js5ik I like knowing why and how stuff works

[@Rednada88]

@@Jay-js5ikit could if youre overtraining

[@gerarddempsey5785]

@@Jay-js5ikI’m here because I’m interested in exercise science. A lot of people enjoy the intricacies of stuff like this. Incorporating new things I learn into my training is really fun. Not everyone needs to watch these videos or care about this stuff, but just because you don’t doesn’t also mean other people don’t

[@robertgantz2100]

A training with Brad would be the pinnacle.

[@gamerkyle14]

But brad dictating what mike has to do , how the tables turned

[@yipperdeyip]

Pinnacle of stupidity. This turd doesn't even know what going to failure is yet he does studies on volume/ HIT training... What an absolutely pathetic industry we have.

[@elliottwhitticar2383]

Yes. I was happy he put the 10-20 sets guideline in context -- that that no one except Arnold can do 20 sets for 10 muscle groups without double counting compound joint movements. 200 sets per week x 4 minutes/set would be 800 minutes, or over 13 hours plus warmups, changing, driving to the gym, etc. Sounds like a good recipe for divorce, unless you're a pro bodybuilder! Three sets per exercise, 2-3 times per week has worked pretty well for me over the decades. Maybe 4-5 sets when doing 5 or fewer reps for powerlifting, but keeping a rep or two in reserve.

[@rockyevans1584]

He had a training video with John meadows. That's when we saw what Brad considers to be failure, which was pretty wild

[@chribbatt]

@@rockyevans1584 That shit was embarrassing. "That's my failure..." at like 10 RIR.

[@toddgriffith9042]

So cool to see y’all together - always hear about your time studying under Brad, such a cool moment in time to reunite after all yalls experiences

[@Anjover]

Mike really nailed the summary at 14:05. Even Chad was impressed.

[@N22883]

Some notes: - 10 major muscle groups: biceps, triceps, chest, shoulders, back, quads, hamstrings, glutes, calves, and abs 10-20 working sets per week for each muscle group is what the literature suggests. Closer to 5-10 may actually be better. I'm very new to volume, so I didn't understand most of it lol Maintain muscular gains with very low volumes! This may apply to not super huge people the best. 1/3 of your typical muscle building volume is what it may take to maintain.

[@fdu6]

Sounds about right, as long as we remember that volume is only one of the many variables involved in building muscle. For example, I've been doing anywhere from 4 to 12 weekly sets for all my muscles and everything has been growing for me, at different rates, of course. I think 15 to 20 sets a week is not sustainable long term, especially with high intensity

[@nickps2251]

5-10 is where it’s at

[@nickps2251]

I’m liking 8

[@exoticz9589]

@@nickps2251Yeah me too some weeks i do 12 to 15 and most of the time 6 to 10

[@stuntmonkey00]

10-20 sets per muscle group you run into problems with not being fully recovered before your next workout. You have to plan the week carefully, and let's face it, not everything goes according to plan. This is why one week off and just eating whatever you want, when you come back you're stronger than ever.

[@adrianoreyes4184]

Great conversation all around!

[@soots-stayingoutofthespotl5495]

Yeah. I was engrossed and ready for another 15, 20, 30 mins of it, so was disappointed when it ended.

[@jp3611]

Two of the greatest scientific minds of strength and hypertrophy, a real treat!

[@AlanChunkyMunky]

I actually really appreciate the slightly more subdued dynamic here especially with someone like Brad in the mix. Allows the jokes to still be present but allows the information to be much more front and center. Love this video!

[@gerarddempsey5785]

GREAT VIDEO! Hopefully we get to see Dr Schoenfeld on the channel again. Thanks RP!

[@somethingandahalf]

Good point about training responders.. I used to do relatively high volume now switched to higher intensity lower volume shorter rest and resulta are much better. Probably down to diet too im not particularlt strict with it which impacts my recovery. Higher volume mentally exhausts me to the point i dont find it worthwhile. I find it more useful to play with rest time between sets than increase volume as stimulus

[@JayjeetDeshmukh1]

Damn guys, you got the legend Brad Schoenfeld on the channel. I am just speechless. This is insane I love it.

[@taylorbrown3807]

Had to turn the brightness all the way down to watch this one.

[@Logan-s1g3s]

You hate paleness so much even your surnames brown

[@Cooowop]

🤣🤣🤣🤣💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀

[@calebmangrum8657]

Me w my bright orange hair trying not to take that personally 😂💀😭

[@Neverwouldd]

@@calebmangrum8657what are you talking about dude

[@msbegaofnwha]

@@calebmangrum8657 blowing it bro, this aint about you

[@krislupton8596]

So if I do 3 sets of bench, 3 sets of incline bench, 3 x sets of shoulder press (these can be classed as 9 sets on triceps). Then if I have an arm day and do 3 sets of tricep extensions, 3 x skullcrusher, 3 x close grip Bench press. This is a total amount of 18 total sets on TRICEPS

[@ThomasAT86]

Listening to someone like Doc Schoenfeld (huge respect) as opposed to some influencer scammer makes me smile way more than it should. It's so refreshing when someone says stuff like "I (we) don't know", "we need more research", "currently it seems as if....", "it is probably a good idea to....", "it depends" and so forth. That's real, not some crap fear-mongering, I know it all, give me your money scam. That being said, it can certainly bring up a level of complexity and nuance that could be a little too uncertain and off-putting for some people, but that's reality. Boy would I love if we had more people who appreciated and supported folks like Dr. Schoenfeld rather than falling for some scammer influencer. And that'd be great on so many levels...not supporting scammers, not supporting quacks, instead that money and time and energy going to support great people, all the brain power and time and money going towards good science, probably hugely improving scientific advance, massively reducing the need to debunk and counter misinformation, people not wasting years and decades and tons of money and energy and actually reaching their goals. Ah, the dreams.

[@kevinfoley8105]

Much respect to both doctors, what an outstanding and informative interview.

[@JayBee0212]

Really awesome to see this man speak on these subjects, I cited goodness knows how many of his studies during my ExSc degree. Huge thank you to you both

[@AutoMotivate]

0:40 Haha, that awkward but lovely joke 😂

[@davegaleuk]

I'd be adding stress as a variable too. Cortisol can change the way food is metabolised, causing a general hormonal imbalance. Upping reps can then cause a further increase in cortisol potentially turning anyone into a hard-gainer. My PTSD research project - Total Health Matrix - includes a focus on gut health.

[@mistermxyzptlk371]

Great interview! However, you didn't touch a topic I hoped you could have: what is the relashionship between volume and intensity? Meaning, does how close to failure you get have any relashionship with how much volume you get "optimize" or, on th other hand, "get away with"?

[@mistermxyzptlk371]

@@ConorF727 no way you actually said that the most expirienced researcher ever has no credibility because you saw a video of him training once and you didn't like it 💀

[@Sol-01]

@@ConorF727 intensity is relative its a subjective experience What might be brads intensity might not be someone else's intensity

[@Sol-01]

@@ConorF727 Intensity as in rate of PERCEIVED exertion or the amount of EFFORT Its relative Its even in the name 'perceived' - how you believe it to be Have you ever heard of Borg RPE scale? Mike Tuchscherer's RPE scale? I am not talking about intensity as in load or weight You can have both relative and absolute intensities aswell If you're going to call me out, at least explain why you THINK I am wrong instead of saying what you did. Its not inciting any educational debate by insulting me even though you did say 'no disrespect' then continue to say that I don't know what I am talking about. Still being disrespectful.

[@Sol-01]

@@ConorF727 there is no 'objective' failure So your the one talking shit - clearly uneducated what brad considers failure is what he is his failure point, because he couldn't push any more, regardless of what you think of it and how you could of done better. That was brad's failure point. How would you know whether he needs more sets? Do you oversee brads programs and consult with brad himself? Does brad tell you his experiencing a lack of muscle growth and isn't getting any progress? You sound fucking dumb.

[@Sol-01]

@@ConorF727 "I don’t care what he “perceives” as failure if it is objectively not close to failure." You don't care because you don't even know what rate of perceived exertion is. You didn't even know the concept was related to 'training to failure'. You realise that people have personal experiences, subjective experiences in the world. Are you going to tell me that when I train to failure I am 'not going to failure' because your 'me'. Do you see how ridiculous you sound If I was to go to failure on an exercise, and you tried the same exercise (With the same number of reps/load/technique -keeping everything the same here) your failure could be the same as mine (doubt it), but it might before or after mine

[@Sepp2009]

"maintenance" is an interesting topic, please make a video on that!

[@IRunWithKnives]

Watch this video again, but try to hear Dr. Schoenfeld's voice as Christopher Walken. You're welcome.

[@leongarcia8089]

Uh, thank you, is, all, I can, say.

[@Agnes135]

Fuck you're right lmao

[@zom5387]

Damn....lol

[@pgermii]

Forget training volume. I'm digging that grand piano in the background.

[@TheHaiku2]

I like to think about volume, in general, as how many sets in a given rep range at a given intensity, RPE, or percentage or 1RM. Volume load means nothing to me, because you could have done that volume with a can of soup.

[@davorzdralo8000]

In general when they talk about volume, it's assumed that this is number of hard sets aka 5-20 reps with 8-10 RPE.

[@Cooowop]

Volume = reps x weight. Its not just reps 👊💪

[@Sol-01]

volume = set x reps x load x distance the bar has travelled

[@Tropicocitwo]

THANKYOU FOR THIS INTERVIEW. Brad Schoenfeld is a literal living legend in the exercise science field, this is S-tier content.

[@HumbleDictator]

OMG I wasnt expecting the GOAT to feature here. Excellent surprise!

[@leftR-tardation]

What do you mean? I haven’t been featured here, yet… Silly…

[@llind]

@@leftR-tardationyo ass tweakin😭🙏🏻

[@willemdafriend916]

Hey Mike, I would really love for you to give in a depth analysis on cholesterol and sodium. I want to know what’s good; what’s bad; and how to manage it as a body builder comparative to a non lifter in terms of daily recommendations

[@beeefbelly]

talking to brad schoenfeld keepin you big as hell

[@Adrian-cn5rk]

I love these segments. Can't wait to see future guests.

[@ordinarryalien]

Same. Can't wait to see future ghosts.

[@corinneflorentino9874]

I am doing 5-10 sets and seeing great gains :) especially doing the RP style slow and full ROM

[@jtfritchie]

Either your plan or your editing was fantastic. So succinct.

[@t.r.everstone7]

Dr. Brad deserves a cool nickname like "The Ghost"

[@Camaro254]

More like"powder" or "the albino"

[@User-54631]

Yea my man looks like he hasn’t seen sun is a decade

[@t.r.everstone7]

@@Camaro254 I said a COOL nickname lol Those aren't cool in the slightest lmao

[@t.r.everstone7]

@@User-54631 Must be all that research on muscles spent indoors. I appreciate his sacrifice haha

[@apotrc]

I'm glad to see you both together on screen! Two of my favorites ;)

[@archaeologistify]

What a beatufiul piano. Nice conversation or whatever. Can't get enough of the piano.

[@DjDolHaus86]

The true goal in life is to be jacked and good at the piano so you can describe yourself as a massive pianist

[@archaeologistify]

@@DjDolHaus86 Kinda curious - do people's fingers get larger as their entire arm gets more muscular... Can't have fat fingers for them keys.

[@DjDolHaus86]

@@archaeologistify I honestly don't know? I'd assume there is some hand growth relative to bulking up. Some people say having big hands is genetic but if that's true I must have inherited my mums because my dad had hands like shovels and mine are quite delicate (6ft/210lbs/20ish% body fat)

[@sirsmotealot7915]

@@DjDolHaus86plus you can flex your triceps hard while smashing keys.

[@papap-o4u]

agreed, i wonder what sheet music is on there

[@VacationRaphael]

Rp, you guys have out done yourselves in this video. This is absolutely excellent.

[@jeffvandenbrande8455]

I’m always confused then they use the “x amount of sets per muscle” or “x amount per muscle group”. Take the back for example. Multiple muscles u can target individually there. Do I need to do approx 10-15 working sets for each muscle (traps, lats, romboids), or for them all combined as the muscle group of the back?

[@Snerdles]

Exactly, if you have about 600 skeletal muscles and you can target a quarter of them you should probably be doing at least 1500 sets per week... Looks like I'm going to get some good use out of that 24 hour gym membership...

[@braga_6850]

@@SnerdlesLOL. All day is the way to go. Maybe Rich Piana 8h arm workout wasn’t that wrong…

[@lalal1414]

Think of it in movement patterns, not muscles. It means roughly ten sets of horizontal or vertical pulling. 10 sets of vertical (hop) pressing (or side set work). 10 sets of horizontal pressing. 10 sets squatting/ quads. 10 sets for binging or hamstrings. (Glues kinda over lap in both those groups) Then so and so sets for arms etc. That’s At lest that how the volume is broken up if you look at the actual programs they did in these kind of studies.

[@lalal1414]

Simply it means 10-20 sets per week of a main compound movement or isolation movement that directly targets that muscle broadly. So if you did lay pull downs, t bar row, and straight arm pull downs that would all count towards back volume total. If you did trap work or rear delt work on top that would probably be considered it own volume.

[@taylortait1]

Unless you're getting up on stage, you don't need to hyper focus on the individual 30 or so muscles in the back. You can just break it down into 3 groups. Upper back, lats, and lower back. Broken up into 2 or 3 days, you can hit your 10 sets per muscle group per week.

[@ParvParashar]

Absolutely loved the video! 🙌

[@Journeyman2585]

I'm 39 and have been lifting for a little over a year now. I've been doing 4 sets per muscle twice a week and it's been great. I've made more gains than I thought I could starting at this age.

[@msbegaofnwha]

na

[@DuncanL7979]

That's great. You will eventually plateau with that routine though. Twice a week is too high frequency for a natural lifter at a high performance level. When you stop seeing progress you should switch to 8 sets once per week, per muscle.

[@Journeyman2585]

@@DuncanL7979 I've seen no evidence that once a week has better results, and aot of evidence that twice a week is better.

[@DuncanL7979]

@@Journeyman2585 there's no scientific study I know of that has measured hypertrophy in subjects already near their genetic potential of muscular development using varied training frequency like that. I'm just sharing my personal experience and it is shared by others, including bodybuilders like Arnold Schwarzenegger in the Encyclopedia of Bodybuilding.

[@Journeyman2585]

@@DuncanL7979 I'm almost 40 and I've been lifting for barely over a year. I'm never gonna get anywhere near my genetic potential.

[@7tgm23]

Awesome interview.

[@MW-fh9he]

when they say 10-20 sets do they count back movements for biceps and chest movements for triceps as well as shoulder press/pressing movements for triceps?

[@xrp589baby]

yeah this is becoming extremely confusing....

[@Agnes135]

Yes they are

[@CeroAshura]

Some studies are, some studies aren't.

[@luxeayt6694]

For the 10-20 recommendation, I'm pretty sure they are.

[@Sol-01]

Yes they do for example, 3 sets on the benchpress would be 3 sets of the chest, triceps and shoulders

[@eldorado223]

what a perfect interview. these guys have never missed, it's actually pretty incredible when you really think about it.

[@mr.k5865]

Pianist here. Can you ask him next time what he is playing and the composers he enjoys? That's a lot of sheet music. I've always felt that playing the piano is in many ways like hypertrophy...actually, I've never thought that but I'll insert it now since it sounds kinda deep.

[@segundacuenta726]

I've seen videos of 2 bodybuilders who are also professional pianists. Both showed limitations as pianists compared to regular non bodybuilder pianists. I think special care as far as gripping (such as dumbbells and bars) and general stiffness of the hands and arms would be needed to prevent or lessen that.

[@matthewdunham1689]

You are the best, Dr. Mike! Never a bad video!!!!

[@ruki1r]

I would love a longer 1-2hrs podcast with you too

[@basatiyanauk4885]

Thank you so much for bringing this video to light! I loved every second of it and learned some new things!

[@BannedBooksFromBorlest]

"Many trainers and influencers rarely discuss the crucial role of testosterone in muscle growth. It's a topic that often gets overlooked. If you're serious about your training, 'You Are Stronger Than You Think' by Borlest sheds light on this important subject."

[@khronos2213]

I've only heard about that book from tiktok in yt comments with no explanation. That looks like bots to me. Could you explain the importance of the level of testosterone that is within normal ranges on muscle growth?

[@DuncanL7979]

How is it overlooked? Isn't it common knowledge to the point that we separate men and women's sports?

[@khronos2213]

@@DuncanL7979 He didn't mean gender differences. He meant a man with low vs high test (within a normal range).

[@ironmaiden1236541]

You just pulled that out of your a$$

[@382u3uuej]

Also, people who work out, eat healthy and do basic movement throught the day (such as walking, instead of being a big chungus that doesn't do that) means that you will have higher testosterone than normal people, and I don't see how can I increase it if I already do these things, that book probably tells you to eat honey or something like that and that it will improve your gains by x10.

[@tombeans2204]

Please get this guy on more

[@brandonyoung4910]

Someone show this man the benefits of sunlight

[@sauromatae9728]

White people may fear skin cancer

[@fabiorodrigo3638]

I dont want to be rude, but looks like a skin condition that WONT benefit from sunlight.

[@AnthonyA-t8f]

The secret to longevity, being a vampire....it has its drawbacks of course

[@20ftBurmesePythonChaser]

''Yeah , I recover my powers from sunlight'' - Clark Kent .

[@EhurtAfy]

What are the benefits of sunlight, premature skin aging and cancer? As long as you get a few minutes for vitamin D production and light on eyes for circadian rhythm effects, you're good. The other benefit might be getting laid, but cannot confirm?

[@drjtwoodrow]

Great episode!

[@curious_boy9092]

less volume, more intensity. too many sets u will get weaker thats my experience over and over again, ur strength will decrease. try always first to increase the working weight, and if thats doesnt work, than you can add sets, not other way around

[@Girthquake9]

Same here, been experimenting with volume all year since that wild study. It got me f'ed right up I added so many sets and just spun in circles for a few months in a constant state of Dom's. Then went back to 3-4 hard sets increasing the effort weekly and back I was on the hypertrophic horse

[@Sol-01]

fortunately the goal is hypertrophy Strength is a whole different ball game in terms of volume

[@muonwap]

so when doing working sets a week. what would a typical training program look like? how many sets in one day for chest, quads, back, and arms?

[@TheCCBoi]

Almost at 2 million subscribers, congrats Dr. Mike and the RP team and you didn’t have to stoop to becoming a fitness drama channel either.

[@EGarza-mk2mk]

Just tell a bunch of gay jokes!

[@joeschmoe2697]

I mean not yet, but Dr Mike is walking the line with some of the videos. A couple of his videos with people he strongly disagrees with he is semi-aggressive. That being said I don’t disagree with him (like him ripping into Dr Oz), but I just hope it doesn’t degrade into the generic fitness drama. It reminds me of the spot where Greg Doucette was in his earlier videos before he leaned extra hard into just drama. I don’t thing RP would get to that point, but yeah here’s to hoping it stays that way!

[@benork4430]

Great interview, love the set allocation idea

[@mustang8206]

When it comes to nutrition and supplementation the exercise scientists are ahead of the bodybuilders. When it comes to lifting itself I feel like the bodybuilders are ahead of the scientists

[@TheKremor]

In my experience. People focus differently on what they do. Many Often hyper-fixate on doing x amount of sets for x amount of reps. Instead of focusing how they do the reps. There are literally tens of variations. While the adaption might be similar or the same. There are many ways to get same or similar results. And then question comes. What makes one focus the best and making each movement. Rep and set count. Instead of focusing getting x number. Focusing on how they get there. If Weight is very low, then perhaps focus on making it hard as humanly possible to make the muscles work and get more quality reps rather than swinging weights for x set for x reps. With little focus. Another goof question for all of us naturals is. With so limited growth window: should we perhaps train more often those muscles than just pounding then once or twice a week ultra hard? I really think so.

[@UncleZopity]

They're not "poor" responders, they're "socio-economically disadvantaged" responders

[@mkshft_atmsmshr]

Proletarian Responders if you will

[@ordinarryalien]

@@mkshft_atmsmshr ⚒️

[@segundacuenta726]

They are responders with special needs. Or also disabled responders.

[@DuncanL7979]

Check your lifting privilege you kettlebell kulak

[@KinnereyB]

I do push/pull/legs twice a week (so 6 days of training total per week). I do 2 compound exercises for the larger groups (3 sets each - so 6 sets. Ie. 3 of barbell bench and 3 of barbell incline), and 2 isolation exercises for said group before moving to the next (ie. Pec Deck Flies and Cable Crossovers). This gives me 24 total sets per week for chest, 15 for biceps and triceps, 30 for “back” (seeing as back includes multiples groups including traps - so that’s the overall total of pull day), 12-15 total iso exercises for biceps and triceps (tris done on push and bis done on pull day), and 36 total sets per week for legs (hamstrings and quads. I rarely do calf work bc I have massive calves, so instead I do basketball style training for them). I spend about 50 total minutes in the gym actually lifting. The first 15-20 minutes are just to walk briskly to get my blood flowing and warmup sets to activate the muscles. Then I begin my workout (almost always push/pull/legs). 🏋️‍♂️Am I over training? Went from 144lbs and literally dead - I spent 13 days in ICU and including those 13 days, I spent a total of 32 in the hospital; to 195lbs and extremely lean (about 7% body fat) and my testosterone levels are extremely high (just above the high side of normal). Those gains happened in a year. In the 5 years since, I’m increasing only slower on personal bests, but annually am increasing them at the same rate (even if only by 2.5-5lbs). I also track total volume for each exercise and each day, push, pull, and legs just bc it’s easy and it gives me more data. Are these good or bad signs and practices? I initially “learned under Wes Watson” 🙄 but saw through his bs in 6 months…and I was among his first 50 clients and the leader of the group he formed on Mighty Net (until I was unceremoniously roid rage yelled & cussed at bc the man I was paying monthly to “train” me hadn’t answered a question that was affecting my health so much I ended up in the ER more than once. It was just overtraining but I digress. Don’t listen to Wes is the point people). I do feel and look great (compared to dead I suppose anything is an improvement 😂). I also got NASM certified as a personal trainer and nutrition coach. I’ve helped a lot of people, but can never be enough. I need to expand my coaching and that begins with knowledge and continues with knowledge and leading by example but with humility, only speaking authoritatively on things I’m 100% certain about). But I know enough to know I can never, ever know enough! Thanks for having one of the only REAL training channels on KZbin and for reading this novel 😂 Have a great day everyone and happy training 🏋️‍♂️

[@thomasmauro6879]

I was able to extrapolate Brad's favorite word.

[@lazarnikolic8161]

"Context". You mean "context"... right?

[@wannabeapollo]

Such a good interview

[@lorensmashing]

I got a question in relation to the concept of volume. Do you only count the sets of specific excercices for a muscle group? For example, does chin ups sets count to the bicep volume? Because if i do 5 sets of chin ups close to failure my biceps are going to be really pre exhausted.. Thank you! I hope i made my point clear haha

[@killerkhatiby009]

Most studies do generally count compound exercises as a set for both the primary mover and synergist muscles. So chin ups would be both a set for back and biceps. In your own training it doesn't really matter much, just be consistent with either way you choose so you can track your progress in rep strength (i.e. can you do heavier weight for the same reps, or more reps with the same weight) and determine what volume works for you. I personally like to count compounds as half sets for the synergists involved since they do get some stimulus, but it won't be maximal like an isolation exercise that takes those synergist muscles closer to failure, if not to failure. But again, it really doesn't make much difference so long as you're consistent with however you track it since the whole point is to just figure out how much you can tolerate and recover from with a given program and that will vary significantly between individuals. You'll figure it out as you start doing your workouts if you start with very low volume and gradually ramp up week to week if you feel like you're recovering between sessions and could easily do more.

[@jfritz6233]

So many great nuggets of information in this video. I really like the muscle budget section. Nearly everyone has a weak spot on their body that they would benefit from doing more sets per week on that muscle.

[@gregd4391]

There should have been a "trigger warning" at the beginning of this video for all of the Mike Mentzer fan boys. 😂

[@Adiarby13]

Too much work, mentzer's fan boys got triggered just by the word "volume" alone. Every workout videos gonna trigger them unless it's Mentzer 😂

[@gregd4391]

​@@Adiarby13 So true!

[@rs68158]

Mentzer fan here. I utilize TUT and non TUT principles. Cycle through them to get the best of it all. I get triggered by folks such as yourself who could never finish a mentzer style set let alone an entire HIT workout. Not once have I ever puked after or in the middle of a 5x5 3x5 10x10 or any other periodization approach of weight training. Some people just can’t handle the intensity. It’s ok though not everyone was made for hard work. Don’t get triggered please 😊

[@gregd4391]

@rs68158 I accomplished more in the world of weight lifting by the time I was 15 years old, than you could ever hope to accomplish in your lifetime. I'm not triggered, I'm laughing hysterically at your ignorance.

[@rs68158]

@@gregd4391 your hysterical laughing and need to be pompous about irrelevant accolades is the literal definition of triggered. No one cares about any participation trophy you received. It’s all about work in and out the gym. Your fear of intensity and hard work is all that is heard in that gratuitously delivered braggadocios diatribe….ill be waiting quietly lifting and gaining clown.

[@Alex-uv4ke]

So much information in one Video. Thx a lot

[@mithilaum]

He’s giving “grad student talking to advisor”.

[@CredibleHulk10]

I emjoyed this conversation. Thank you, sir.

[@DominikKowalczyk762]

Mike was mewing

[@mrtapoutnow]

This is THE man. I've heard his name for so many years. Glad to finally see him.

[@mikemellon80]

43 years old. 25 years of lifting. Intensity matters sooo much more than volume. lots of volume with easy reps means nothing. Mike Mentzer was maybe too extreme but proof that intensity matters. most Young lifters dont do recovery well. or way overtrain being natural and dont eat near enough

[@davorzdralo8000]

When they talk about volume, it's always about volume of sets with high intensity. They are not counting junk volume.

[@mikemellon80]

@@davorzdralo8000 experience big lifters yes. many beginners dont know what intensity is. just go to a gym and most people arent lifting with intensity. some yes, most no

[@hooktraining3966]

@@mikemellon80 yeah thats true when i started it wasn't taking my sets to the max and doing quality reps. I have since lowered my reps and WAY upped my intensity and it works well for me.

[@davorzdralo8000]

@@mikemellon80 where are you from? I'm from Eastern Europe, and the main issue I see with beginners is overtraining. Everyone is taking every set to failure and are constantly sore.

[@mikemellon80]

@@davorzdralo8000 From the US. and yes, overtraining is big for young lifters because they have time to train too much and want big gains. thats what i did when i was in college. train for hours and not get enough rest after. Train like pro bodybuilders and not be on steroids so the recovery ability isnt there. still saw good gains but probably would have seen better if i didnt overtrain.

[@JTP1999]

Its a nuanced answer that depends on you as an individual, your current diet, your current stress level, the exercises you have chosen, etc. Just start with very few sets, and add a set every time you are recovered in time.

[@chrikke]

5:10 Mike is coming out as gay in morse code

[@milbeck]

xD

[@CrolyGiart]

i cant remember from which fitness youtuber i got this, but they said that bigger muscles (chest,back,leg) need 10 sets per workout and smaller muscles(bicep,tricep,shoulders) need 5 to 8 sets per workout. if i train every muscles 2 times a week that would be 20 sets and 10 to 16. so its interesting to now hear that you only need 10 per week. so 5 per workout. i have had a very long break from the gym ( getting ready to go again) and back then i always did 5 sets of benchpress and 5 sets of the butterfly machine per workout. would be weird to only do 3 benchpress sets and 2 butterflies.

[@jakepadgett5569]

Yea that’s just not enough for me. I do 5 sets of dumbbell chest presses 12-16 reps. 5 sets of incline dumbbell presses at 12-16 reps. Then the same with dumbbell flys and incline flys. So 20 sets at 12-16 reps. Plus 2 sets of burnout push ups

[@AgentSmith001]

Anyone else get fed up of studies contradicting studies ?

[@Mikey__R]

I've got dumbbells and an ez bar at home. I could easily do 5 to 6 arm workouts per week, doing one or two home workouts on top of my regular four gym days. Three set of curls and thee of extensions won't add much time to my day, that's 15 to 18 sets of direct work on biceps and triceps per week. In fact, I've got a mass phase coming up, I'm going to do that.

[@porvi8112]

DR MIKE I need that RP shirt

[@aleclafrance7284]

Yes!

[@ItsJakeTheBrake]

Awesome Video. Dr Schoenfeld was really glowing in this one.

[@johnnykarate_SweepLeg]

Bro's arms glow in the dark.

[@bitshiftme]

bros going to outlive me because he avoids skin cancer and I don't 💀

[@ja1724]

"You gotta eat your way there." As a tall lanky hard gainer this was my biggest struggle. Once I really started counting calories and figured out my BMR I realized the amount of clean food I needed to eat was insane. Force fed my way (while training hard) from 188 to 225lbs in three years, all lean mass ! Thanks Dr. Mike for these videos !

[@ricardofrias5345]

I only checked the thumbnail now I know the whole video

[@mattzx003]

Ironically they didn't mention different muscle groups responding to different volumes even though that's obviously what the thumbnail is suggesting. Seriously, they didn't say anything about that in the whole video.

[@pad4]

Is it the wrong thumbnail?

[@DoughBoi122]

@RenaissancePeriodization Does anyone have any suggestions with my current split. I haven’t found any strength coaches in my area that do what Dr. Mike is doing and I want to know if what I’m doing will produce optimal results for strength and hypertrophy. I’m 25 years old 6’ around 200 pounds and have been lifting on and off for some years. Here is my current split. Monday - chest, triceps, delts Tuesday - legs, abs, forearms Wednesday - back, shoulders, biceps Thursday - chest, triceps, forearms Friday - legs, abs, delts Saturday - back, shoulders, biceps, forearms Typically I do 3x8 with 2-3 RIR. With 3 workouts per muscle group per session. So chest would be incline dumb bell press, standing cable chest flys and assisted dips. All 3x8. Thank you for any advice.

[@EazZiB]

12-16 sets per muscle per week is a great amount for most people

[@placeholder29]

Whered u get that number from ?

[@aszd14]

God​@@placeholder29

[@swoops41]

This video suggest 5-10 for most ppl … where’s your value coming from?

[@jeremyhinze8837]

This was fantastic Dr. Mike. Im off to do 60 sets for legs in one swat.

[@Fergus-H-MacLeod]

I felt nauseous just reading that. Yikes

[@jeremyhinze8837]

@@Fergus-H-MacLeod don't do it, I can no longer walk.

[@6393dude]

Don't forget your fly swatter

[@MM-bu9ir]

Lyle McDonald where art thou

[@whatdupdoh]

😂 I was thinking the same

[@jtfritchie]

Extremely informative. Packed with useful knowledge.

[@johndonson1603]

Depends on how much gear you’re on !

[@gattt1141]

nope.

[@chrisdixon2843]

I love the 5x5 setup, chest, row squat, 2-3 times per week with 1x5 deadlift. Up the load 2.5kg each week until you can’t keep form and/or complete the volume, drop down 20% to deload and go again. Great for strength and size and easy to track imo plus very time efficient.

[@bitshiftme]

This is why I pay for membership

[@varbaek]

Really good video 👍

[@varund7]

Ok so basically Mike Mentzer was right?

[@JimBaker-ks4io]

No.

[@radoslavdragnev8797]

More like Arthur Jones. Mike Mentzer just repeated what Arthur Jones said.

[@davorzdralo8000]

Not even remotely, the fuck?

[@stephanycrestwood4943]

This was great! Thank you!

[@TrynagetJacked]

Can studies be falsified to please an investor who is pushing an agenda of say a marketing product?

[@InflammatoryCommentMaker]

Yes, but, these two are probably among the most knowledgeable as to what studies hold the most merit. Brad has conducted hundreds of studies himself, with no incentive to fake results. Also, a lot of these studies are conducted by medical colleges as part of the students curriculum.

[@MaikeLDave]

Always

[@stupidchild7716]

​@@InflammatoryCommentMaker RoachDogg Jr, you really are a jack of all trades. I never took you for a bodybuilding connoisseur

[@TrynagetJacked]

@@InflammatoryCommentMakerplease be open minded cause the reality you know and what really goes on is very different.

[@InflammatoryCommentMaker]

@@TrynagetJacked how about I give you backshots with both of my hands in your mouth? How about that?

[@SebastianRodriguez-wb9ev]

Hey Mike, just came across your channel, absolutely love your science based reviews about training. As a contortion teacher myself, I have always been extra detailed and picky with the proper technique of everything I teach, even down to the anatomycal level of every movement. And I would love if you made a reaction on someone a little different than gym athletes. If you did I would love if you reacted to Andrea Larosa, one of the mass monsters in calisthenics, apparently getting all his gains through calisthenics only until very later in his carreer. Would love for you to react and give your honest opinion, also the body transformatio video about him is very entertaining

[@Sstinkyrich]

im about to watch this hol up

[@129jazza]

Mikes interviewing skills getting real good btw