Why Vaapad would be WEAK Against Dooku - Star Wars Explained

[@brettstarks1846]

For a Sith Lord, Dooku never really acted like one. Yes, he was evil, calculating, and ruthless; but he never really had that dark side rage.

[@cadeshanley218]

He probably does, but focuses it as a calm laser beam that doesn't zig-zag. Dooku is a genuine sword, while Maul is a hammer or a beating stick.

[@poseidon5003]

The face he makes when he wounds Obi Wan in AOTC proves your statement incorrect.

[@Leondrius]

​@@poseidon5003That, and the fact that he was going to kill an unarmed Obi-Wan.

[@wv5853]

@@poseidon5003I would have to say I disagree personally. He was ruthless but not angry if someone had a face that screamed he he he I’m wiiiniiing that’s different then anger, I might be wrong this is just my perspective but he was quit level headed compared to other sith especially in prequels, the angriest version of him we saw was clone wars dooku and even then he was still extremely level headed and more frustrated and passive aggressive then angry witch suits his saber style.

[@slime8177]

Dooku’s actions led to the estimated deaths of 100 billion life forms. This is basically fictional Holocaust denial as far as I’m concerned

[@AniSky759]

I love how both characters complement their respective actors perfectly. I bet you could replace nearly every mention of Windu and Dooku with Samuel L. Jackson and Christopher Lee and the video would still make sense.

[@pedrovargas2181]

SLJ: "I'VE HAD IT! WITH THESE MUTHAFUKKING SNAKES! IN THIS MUTHAFUKKING PLANE!" Sir Christopher: 🍸

[@ericolsen5592]

"This made me say 'what' so many times that Samuel L Jackson shot me"

[@aster4jaden]

Dooku is too level-headed and precise, he'd be able to handle Vaapad because he wouldn't submerse himself in the darkness so deep for Vaapad to feed off.

[@DeathScepter]

Vaapad is based on Juyo and Juyo is one of the most dangerous lightsaber styles.

[@mikhailthegreatestdragon3627]

@@DeathScepter And?

[@AndreMiller-ku9xy]

@@mikhailthegreatestdragon3627 and Mace wouldn't have to use Vaapad to defeat Dooku... he's done way MORE with the Force than Dooku ever could...only think Dooku has that Mace doesn't is his Sith lighting and the very moment he uses it would be enough for Mace to end it quickly

[@mikhailthegreatestdragon3627]

@@AndreMiller-ku9xy Why are you tagging me lol, I'm asking the other dude what Juyo has to do with here. It's already confirmed Dooku smacks Juyo wielders around just fine, so it's irrelevant.

[@DeathScepter]

@@mikhailthegreatestdragon3627 Vapaad is not weak against Dooku because it is based on Juyo.

[@LordVader.66]

Dooku is well aware of Vapaad and what his weaknesses would be against it.

[@S0L12D3]

I still struggle deciding who would win here…..

[@LordVader.66]

@@S0L12D3 I would give the edge to Dooku myself. Mace is overly powerful but I think he falls victim to Dooku's Dunmock and his skill with a saber matches Yoda

[@S0L12D3]

@@LordVader.66 im pretty sure that in legends somewhere dooku and mace sparred and dooku won. But I don’t think in canon that dooku was stronger than mace by the time he left the order. It would be interesting to see George Lucas speak about it

[@LordVader.66]

@@S0L12D3 him and Yoda seemed to be on par. So you would have to place Mace above Yoda

[@S0L12D3]

@@LordVader.66 dooku and Yoda on par??? I don’t agree with that. Dooku fled and fled cheaply by distracting Yoda. And you have to think about it like this. Anakin defeated Dooku, obi wan defeated anakin…. Yoda had to fight palpatine because obi wan was not strong enough. Yet obi wan WAS strong enough to defeat anakin, who defeated Dooku. Dooku was definitely not on par with Yoda

[@Gor85]

It's true. Dooku kept his emotions under control. He held many Jedi beliefs. I think Dooku would win. He was extremely experienced,extremely skillful. He knew perfectly where to strike and when. Tactician. I don't think Windu could use Vapaad on me. There's no ground to hold. It would be weak. Great holocron as always :) May the Force be with you too. Have a nice day too :)

[@Christopher-qq4dl]

Lol

[@tylerrassi4148]

I always love videos that give Dooku the appreciation he deserves. He's so underrated. Outside of that I'd really like to see more videos about bounty hunters especially the most underappreciated one in my opinion Jango Fett.

[@AlexanderYamada]

...Windu's thumbnail outfit is EVERYTHING. I NEED IT. Possibly the best samurai/jedi mashup design I've ever seen.

[@robbymanable]

This makes a lot of sense, especially considering Dooku rarely, if ever, showed the Sith Eyes that Dark Side users are well known for

[@herodaresfire4512]

It's a common misconception that Vaapad is weak if it isn't channelling the opponents darkness. Some go so far as to say it would be useless against someone like Yoda. But Windu didn't create it to fight Sith, it was to channel his own inner darkness, and turn it into a weapon of the light. That is the true strength of Vaapad. The fact that it uses the opponents darkness as well is just a convenient bonus.

[@RCityStrolls]

Combined with “shatter point” it is very effective

[@Kramer_57]

This is a great point to the favor of windu but you have to consider dooku can only be beaten by the unpredictable or shear overpowering strength (yoda/Sidious). Dooku knows windu too well imo to be beaten in the one on one sabers only duel.

[@Kramer_57]

Anakin too sorry. The overpowering might of skywalker is on that list too.

[@tonywright9906]

Facts

[@miskatonic_alumni]

​@RCityStrolls That was the best star wars novel I've ever read.

[@nyavka9280]

Good video. I'm writing a story involving a Sith user of Ju-yo and a Jedi user of Makashi. I've always been interested in how such a fight would end

[@michaelrichardson6569]

I think any fight between Dooku and Windu would look very much like the fight between Sidious and Yoda... only scaled down a bit. Dooku and Windu know each other pretty well, and nearly everything about how the other fights. Dooku faced off against Yoda and didn't really loose (though he didn't really win either)... and Windu faced off against Sidious as well and only sort of won, but exactly if he really won or if Sidious let him win for the benefit of Skywalker to see is still an open question. They both even thought the same of Skywalker as well, so I agree that Mace's Vaapad would not trip Dooku up, but force lightning wouldn't be a problem for Windu either, and he is a lot younger. However, I also see Windu may be more easily turned to the dark side than others... since he even knows it is in him (hence his need for Vaapad). Let us recall that Windu beheaded Jango even after disarming him (long before Order 66) in front of Boba, and Dooku was the compassionate one there. So much like Anakin taking out his anger on the Tuskin Raiders, Windu took out his anger on Jango.

[@ahsokaxtan0]

Dooku is the most underrated character in Star Wars He was so elegant, so cool, so clever and cunning

[@poseidon5003]

He's the furthest thing from "underated".

[@poseidon5003]

Seriously. How is he "underated"?

[@ahsokaxtan0]

@@poseidon5003 so many people, in my experience at least, so if you disagree then fair enough !, barely know him or appreciate his character, he’s always overshadowed by maul or Vader or grievous

[@poseidon5003]

@@ahsokaxtan0 umm...no. LOL. He's the literal separatist leader. As far as the rest of the SW Galaxy at the time is concerned, he's the BIG BAD. He orchestrated the execution on Geonosis, and is a full on Sith lord. Holy crap man. He's not underrated at all.

[@ahsokaxtan0]

@@poseidon5003 like I say I don’t underestimate what he does, he’s my second fave character, just in my experience casual Star Wars fans barely know him and barely any would put them in their top 5, but like I say that’s just in my experience

[@psychedashell]

I think there’s three questions being asked here. Dooku vs Vaapad as a style. Dooku vs a Vaapad expert. Dooku vs Mace. Dooku vs Vaapad as a style is a form analysis and Dooku’s assessment was that Vaapad was ‘sloppy’ a fair assessment from someone who preferred more precise styles over Form7s more erratic movements and seemingly wild swings. Dooku vs a Vaapad expert is an interesting question, there were only three Vaapad experts, one plain left the order, one depending on canon died a vegetable or a redeemed hero after falling to the dark side and Mace. The thing is Vaapad experts dabble in the dark side and while an amazing duellist the other thing Dooku seems gifted in is provocation and I think he could quite easily push two of the experts over the edge and into the dark side. Finally we get Dooku vs Mace and styles become irrelevant because Mace is just that much better a duelist than Dooku. Dooku was an amazing duelist himself but he straight up ran from Mace, not from Vaapad, Dooku ran from Mace.

[@TheShadow14150]

Dooku was better than Mace, he was renowned not just for being a great duelist, but the Jedi’s BEST. Dooku would defeat Windu, but with EXTREME difficulty. Vapaad wouldn’t yield and advantage against Dooku, since he doesn’t rely on the dark side as much. As for the other users: Sora Bulq used Vapaad against Dooku and lost. Quinlan Voss would get squashed against Dooku Depa Billaba (in legends) was better at Vapaad than Windu. Depa was however banned from using the form after she attacked Windu on Horuun Kal. Even if Depa failed at using Vapaad, she would transition to Juyo. Depa would have a good chance against Dooku, but it’s not a guarantee. I want to point out: Darth Sidious used Juyo against Windu and lost (he might have thrown the fight). Even if Sidious threw this fight, the fact that it was believable means it was possible. Depa Billaba used Juyo (following Vapaad) against Windu and won.

[@LuqmanHM]

The thing is Dooku need to be precise, cold and, control calm because its what Form 2 Makashi requires, or else Dooku cannot use Makashi to the fullest potential. His swings and stabs might be strong when using the dark side but it still used along with the precision of Makashi

[@daviddegeorge2667]

I agree, Makashi doesn't channel emotion like form 7, actually the opposite, Makashi denies emotion. It's an intellectual form, relying on strategy and planning, and intense practice to predict opponents. The only advantage Windu has is the inherent unpredictability of Vaapad.

[@WillFredward7167]

In a way, I feel like it’s similar to why Mace couldn’t kill *Grievous* during the battle of Coruscant. Grievous and Dooku duel based on pure physical ability, overwhelming power in the case of Grievous, cold precision in the case of Dooku. In both cases, a major advantage of Vaapad would barely come into play. Grievous didn’t have the Force at all, and Dooku preferred to fight level-headed and calm. Very cool breakdown.

[@someguynamedsteve3753]

I mean Windu was still getting the better of grievous in their duel but grievous was starting to copy Vapaad and Windu realized if grievous obtained Vapaad he would be unstoppable. One thing people don’t realize is Vapaad doesn’t affect the users skill with a blade and instead boost force attributes like in windu’s duel with Sidious, Sidious was extremely faster then mace however with Vapaad it equaled their stats and not their skills. Mace Windu is skills with a blade still very much surpass the like of dooku and Mace Windu was equal to Sidious in skill with a blade. As stories of young mace have said, a young mace was able to be 50/50 with dooku in combat and has beaten him in training on a few occasions. Then you have the entire clone wars for Windu to get better and unlike Dooku, Mace had years to get better while dooku really was at a stand still because of his age. So the real question is who is more powerful in the force between dooku and Mace.

[@WillFredward7167]

@@someguynamedsteve3753 See, this is the kind of thing that reminds me that serious fans are way more knowledgable than Disney. We actually care.

[@matthewmann8969]

​​@@someguynamedsteve3753Mace never beat Dooku in saber combat while Dooku was a Jedi still in Legends even by TPM Circa it ended with either them tying or Dooku winning after a good long battle and Mace was already THE form seven user at the time as Dooku was THE form two user of that point yeah.

[@KYM-Unending]

I came for the great thumbnail. Your theory has no ground however.

[@spinelessmoderate8715]

If I remember correctly, Dooku was 2nd only to Yoda in the Jedi Order when it came to lightsaber combat. Plus, Dooku was aware of Vaapad as Mace Windu developed it while Dooku was still a Jedi. I don't think he would even need to channel his darker emotions to be able to keep pace with and possibly even defeat Mace Windu. He'd just need to remain his cold, calculated self.

[@shadow-qp2ns]

I never understand why windu never use djem so against dooku when he was master of the form in his own rigth

[@matthewmann8969]

​@@shadow-qp2nsBecause Maces use of form five was not Anakin nor even Plo Koon level for that matter yet Anakin was the only form five user to beat Dooku and Dooku despite his dislike of Anakin said that Anakin was the best Djem So stylist he ever seen Mace even of TPM Era was the top form seven styler yeah.

[@laroncollins1784]

I do not believe Dooku could comment on the style since he never truly saw Vapaad. He only saw what Sorq Bulq presented, which Mace stated was Junyo.

[@larrypjonesjr2224]

The reason Mace is the only one to not be tainted by the dark side using Vapad, is because of the Shater Point ability that was rare, (as in batty meditation rare) only few Jedi were known to possess such a rare ability. That’s my take on it

[@edash5835]

Windu also used shatter point ability to see the weakness in in anything including objects and of course opponents a example of this when he was fighting palps he hit the window and it shattered on contact because mace saw the weakness in the window and hit it there. That being said windu would see the weakness in dookus and win.

[@goldenbullet5077]

Love the vids man OH you should make a video about how powerful oppo ransis, Coleman kacj, yarel poof, like all these less know jedi you should make a video about how powerful they were or about their lives

[@michaelconner9208]

Here's a topic idea; Saber forms (including variants) and how well they match up against each other

[@Vicious0Sephiroth]

You can tell when its Ai art, because Ai doesnt seem to know we only have 5 fingers on each hand. (Not including the 6 fingered man from the princess bride) but mace windu in the thumbnail has an extra pinky.

[@ericolsen5592]

Form V Djem So seems to be the perfect counter to Form II Makashi. If you use a longsword against somebody with a fencing saber you're gonna go right through them

[@pullo5518]

Yes but they both use lightsabers that probably weight about the same, anakin isn't using a heavier, longer sword.

[@MylesKillis]

@@pullo5518actually no Anakins lightsaber is actually heavier than most and specifically built to allow him to strike very hard with. Dookus is built for one hand use and thus makes it hard for him to get leverage. A more apt comparison would be Dooku uses a one handed curved saber while Anakin has a full size long sword.

[@matthewherndon5052]

I still maintain that Dooku is the greatest pure duelist in star wars. Prime Dooku vs Prime Windu, Dooku wins hands down

[@gavomorg762]

What a duel it would be.. Would love to see Filloni make an animated What If... show. And have these duke it out and prove who was the superior duelist once and 4all

[@cherrytonshawty9120]

Form II might be ancient, but the way Dooku mastered it, nobody else has even come close, as far as I can tell. Lots of Sith Lords seemed to blend 3 or 4 styles together, or simply learn all 7, but Dooku's commitment to Makashi alone made him extremely dangerous, even to people like Mace, Sidious, and even Yoda. Count Dooku is my favorite Dark Jedi, and probably the single greatest individual to touch the blade, in my opinion. But let's say Dooku only takes maybe, 5.5 out of 10 duels between he and Mace, because Windu does still have the ever rare and elusive Shatter Point, allowing him to effectively match Dooku in alot of scenarios, taking the remaining 4.5 out of 10 duels between he and Tyranus. And I think it's safe to say that Mace could switch to other forms of sabre combat, most likely Juyo itself, keeping the Count on his toes. Mace is also like 10+ years younger, having been a Jedi Master since he was like 28, I think. Great match-up regardless. Haha.

[@KultureShock96]

There is no debate Mace fought Dooku and Dooku ran away if that tells you anything. Star Wars Adventures Comic #10 tales of villainy

[@PnPproDuck]

This was very interesting! I might be very far off were.. but it seems to me, the way Vapaad is described, it reflects the power given by the user back at him, which, in my mind essentially means that - Dooku is fighting himself, all the passion, all the calm, all the technique and skill. Including the amount, high or not of dark side emotion. If Sidious is 100% dark side passion, and therefore Vapaad has 100% potential and effectiveness, then the 50% Dooku gives will still be 100% reflected ? Or am i to understand that the amount of blade skill, tactics and reading of ones opponent comes second in line when considering Vapaad ? So Mace relies more on his own personal skill when facing opponents that are not as enveloped in the dark side?

[@Just_Lars]

Sadly, it's not described how exactly it works (basically just "its THE FORCE") but I assume, that the Vapaad user takes the role of a lightning rod, re-routing the dark side through their mind back at the opponent. Which would explain why it's so hard to learn since you have to channel the dark side without actually using it. Let me explain: Vapaad in it's core follows the idea to use your opponents' strength in the dark side against themselve. In other words, the more angry, brutal and violent your opponent gets, the more effective this technique becomes, because it basically "feeds" upon the dark side energy. A user of Vapaad opens up for their own desire to win and the enjoyment of fighting, while simultaneously drawing on the same feelings from the opponent. Both sides will continue to get stronger in their desires to win, basically creating a feedback loop where the increasing reliance of the dark force user on their anger and other negative emotions strengthen the Vapaad user, until they get careless and either leave an opening or succumb to the erratic fighting style of the form. Those style of attacking, comprised of seemingly random attacks and moves, is the reason why Dooku describes the form as "sloppy". Regarding your initial question: it is not as easy as "Opponent uses dark side, so Vapaad is strong". And of course there are limits to this, in Episode 3 we see Windu clearly struggle to keep up with Sidious. The fact that Sidious can't simply overpower Windu makes him ever more angry. And this in turn just plays into the effect of Vapaad. But it only helps to keep up the status quo. Windu can keep up, but not really beat him. Dooku on the other hand relies on his years and years of experience in the use of a lightsaber instead of just the dark side of the force, with form 2 being specifically designed as THE dueling form. It aims to keep the user grounded and away from getting caught up in emotions, that would potentially blind them in a fight. So there are really no passion, no strong emotions vapaad could draw from. However, the greatest weakpoint is that form 2 enhances Pride and arrogance, traits that Dooku really struggled with. But so does Windu, so I really would call it a draw, if neither of them makes a grievous mistake.

[@dreadrath]

I do think Mace, being younger, could still outlast Dooku even if Vapaad is ineffective, its just a matter of holding out long enough for Dooku's age to start taking its toll. Though if Mace makes even one careless little mistake, Dooku will take him down. Shatterpoint will help Mace a fair bit too, even if Dooku's form is near perfect, if he likewise makes a minor error, Shatterpoint will find that opening and Mace will take it. That's why this is such a crazy match up in the first half, its anyone's game.

[@ThomasSpikes-sg3ye]

That why if they were to fight there duel would last hours instead mins because they are so evenly matched would come down to who made slightest mistake first

[@bryansantos9979]

I like the way both of you guys think because I see other comment saying the other would win no doubt (mostly mace windu) when makashi and shatter point relying on the other’s mistakes and here’s why I think why dooku might’ve lose to anakin since dooku recently join the dark side he’s body been weakened because the dark side of the force feast of your life and he’s body was more adept in the light side of the force the dark side was probably killing him faster unlike palpatine who was more adept in the dark side

[@bradleysaunders1730]

i see dooku getting overwhelmed, form 7 is unpredictable and on top of that its a variant mace himself created, in their primes which is mace as of rots and dooku as of aotc or rots, i believe mace would dog walk him nearly every time.

[@MylesKillis]

@@ThomasSpikes-sg3yeIt would not last that long. Mace form is built on overwhelming speed. Ending the fight fast with an unpredictable offense. Circumstances would determine who wins.

[@leadnsteel1428]

Dooku held off both obiwan and Anakin with ease and he was probably even holding back. Windu woukdnt be much of a challenge for him either.

[@chuckpryde2629]

Dooku would’ve taken Windu back to school if they did battle.

[@BottleDeposit]

Apparently there was a source in the novels (ROTS) implying that without the amp granted to Anakin via Palpatine's encouragement, Dooku would have ended up besting Anakin in that duel. It was only through an Amp granted to Anakin which tilted the scales enough that Dooku was overwhelmed in that fight. I don't see Mace Windu's base abilities (without vaapad amp) strong enough that it'd outright outmatch Dooku's own. After all, even someone like Ventress managed to duel with windu, at least for a while.

[@S0L12D3]

The only reason Ventress lived was cause of plot armom

[@S0L12D3]

Also, I’ve heard the theory about palpatine amping anakin, however I’ve never actually seen any evidence that the case is true…. The only thing I’ve seen in the novel was that sideous wanted obi wan to be incapacitated (which happened) so that anakin and dooku could have a 1v1. Initially dooku was taking it easy on anakin, however, after realizing he was outmatched, he eventually was defeated

[@TJDious]

I beleive Mace could have beaten Dooku but he couldn't have relied solely on Vaapad.

[@darylsdesigns6679]

Agreed

[@AndreMiller-ku9xy]

He wouldn't have had to use Vaapad on Dooku in a straight up lightsaber duel or even a skill match in the Force....Mace was far stronger in the Force than Dooku.....and consequently, the very moment Dooku used Sith lightening would have been enough to ground Mace into that technique and Dooku would be finished

[@RockFan98]

It really could go either way. If it’s AOTC I would give it to Dooku albeit by literally skin of the teeth. ROTS I would give it to Windu but it would still be the second greatest challenge he ever faced(Sidious obviously being #1)

[@S0L12D3]

A lot of people are ignoring the fact that Mace was also a master of Shatterpoint!

[@dreadrath]

Shatterpoint would have been his best tool in such a contest, and even then it would be a super close fight since Shaterpoint is great for spotting openings and weaknesses in an opponent's form, but Dooku's form is so refined that it'd be really hard to find such an opening. Of course Mace is also way younger, so he could just outlast Dooku who would get tired pretty fast. Provided Mace isn't careless, he can probably take this.

[@applepie1911e]

I always said this. I doubt it would work against dooku and his calm fighting technique

[@shannonsharpe7337]

The Ashoka lore and archives I watch your channel religiously and I'll be starting my own soon

[@TheStrudelJonny]

idk, Mace Windu without his active vaapad could still best Dooku(just barely). not to mention he would use his shatterpoint to determine a weakness

[@bloodchron1880]

Yoda described Dooku and Mace as both hands of the Jedi. Neither of them beat Yoda in sparring and Dooku and Mace had a decent relationship for a while so they rarely fought. I think Mace would be able to realize that he couldn’t get enough energy from Dooku to make Vaapad fully effective so he would certainly use other styles and not just the one. Mace mastered all 7 forms so more than likely if he used Form V Djem So, he would probably get the upper hand. Djem So would make use of Mace’s strength which he had over Dooku. Dooku had the precision but how Anakin overpowered him with that form, I feel like Mace could do the same. I think it would be extremely close though.

[@whiteerdydude]

Mastering all forms does not confer perfect skill in them. Anakin is almost certainly a better form V duelist then windu, just as yoda is with form IV and obi wan form III. To top it off, anakin is far stronger in the force itself which improves the power and speed of his strikes to a greater degree than windu. Add that to the fact personal matchups play a bigger roll for vapaad users and windu finds himself in a real challenge. The reason I would give dooku the advantage IMO is that he has bested windu before, and has only grown more powerful. He was on track to be master of the order before he left, then became a sith who was only beaten by the CHOSEN one. Even yoda fighting him when he was fatigued could not actually beat him one on one, and windu definitely can't beat yoda. Also as a side thing, I don't think sidious was as skilled with the blade as people get on. He was carried hard by his crazy powers which is why he was countered so hard by vapaad and also why he gave up on using a lightsaber when fighting yoda

[@bloodchron1880]

@@whiteerdydude I know Mace isn’t as powerful as Anakin but I still give it to Mace. Dooku was not about to beat Yoda in that fight. He made the thing drop down to kill Obi-Wan and Anakin cause he knew he could make a get away cause Yoda would stop to save them. Ya Yoda was starting to breathe hard but that doesn’t mean he was gonna lose to Dooku. Mace wasn’t perfect in other forms but he mastered them all soo he is definitely competent enough to change up his form to cover for his weaker Vaapad form when it comes to fighting Dooku. And ya Palp’s was better in the dark side rather than lightsaber combat…. But Dooku would still lose to him in a 1v1 soooo…. I think it’d be close for sure but I think Mace would come out on top. Even if he had to move into Form VII Juyo to do it and turn to the dark side.

[@jackalmighty3840]

Plo Koon defeated Yoda in lightsaber combat, lol.

[@bloodchron1880]

@@jackalmighty3840 He did and he was the only one to do so but that is cause his fighting style countered Yoda’s main one. Doesn’t mean he would beat Mace or Dooku. And he only beat Yoda once…. 1/10 fights Plo wins ok that’s cool for sure but 9/10 Yoda would beat him.

[@jackalmighty3840]

@@bloodchron1880 Yes, but I'd think that in beating Yoda once, he had the potential to do it again and gradually best Yoda for good. He was Yoda's only loss. Maybe this is a game of rock-paper-scissors. I should think that Dooku counters Mace quite well, as he has his expert opinion that Vaapad was clumsy, and this is coming from someone who was considered the best Jedi duelist in the entire history. Yoda's form 4 (was it?) drew on the force to supplement his old age. But if we're going on basic duelist skills, Dooku is unbeatable.

[@yakuviolin]

Has anyone noticed how Enrique Iglesias's "bailando" melody fits perfectly on the song this videos always have at the end?

[@darkpharaoh542]

Good analysis. This would be a fight for ages. I’m not sure who would win. But on subject, the dark side isn’t necessary for vaapad to be effective. Mace is a deadly duellist regardless of who he’s facing. You have to master all other forms, including form 2, to be effective at form 7.

[@jerryspiegelberg8721]

Count Dooku would probably " school" any other vaapad user but Master Windu would be different.... Mace essentially took Dooku's seat on the Council.... whether that " Hate/ anger" of that betrayal would tip the scales enough in Mace's favor.... I don't know.... Great topic Guy's 👏 👍

[@matthewmann8969]

In Legends Mace only took Dookus spot because Dooku left the order before that Dooku was second in the order only behind Yoda as a close second in rank, current power levels, knowledge, mastery, education, and variety of powers with the force while Mace was tied for the most part the other handful of times ended with Dooku winning slightly in there saber matches in the temple but never being bested by anybody but Yoda if only by a little number with Dooku around before, during, and after the TPM Era as a lightsaber duelist yeah.

[@BeardAxeMcAxeBeard]

I think it would be very close. Windu slight edge as it can also channel his darkness not just the oppenent.

[@MotorcycleCheetah]

I’m torn here. On one hand, Dooku is a Form 2 Master, the Dueling Form. It’s said to be the most suited for dueling against Lightsaber wielding opponents. Plus, his darkness just isn’t as powerful as someone like Sidious’s. On the other hand, would Mace even need that much of a Vaapad boost to take down Dooku? Given what we know, Sith Lightsabers are inherently dark in nature, considering the bleeding crystals. So by that logic wouldn’t merely clashing with a Sith Lightsaber be enough to at least Start the Vaapad battery up, so to speak? At that point, I feel Dooku would ironically fall back on his Jedi teachings of controlling his inner darkness, trying to make it so it leaks out as little as possible, probably in an attempt to force the duel into purely a duel of blades. Then the question is does Windu have what it takes to out duel a Jedi Master versed in Form 2 Lightsaber combat, the form specifically made for dueling, plus Dooku has the advantage of his Curved Lightsaber, giving him certain Angles of attack that Mace doesn’t have access to, while also making some harder to do. Dooku is no stranger to fighting multiple opponents at once, even when they have multiple blades. So I have to believe that Dooku would be able to handle Mace in a 1v1. I honestly cannot decide, I feel like they both have an equal chance of winning, and it may come down to who can swing his lightsaber better.

[@yokai333]

Sounds about right. I'm a bit disappointed in the lack of information on Force Hound training from the rakatans

[@jamessantichen1928]

This video was needed. Good upload

[@stonecoldprose]

In martial arts of any kind, styles make fights. Tommy Hears destroyed Roberto Duran in 2 rounds. Marvin Hagler struggled to decision Duran over 15. But Hagler destroyed Hearns. Et cetera and so on. It's all in how styles match up. Dooku was very, very powerful and had flawless technique. But he was a Sith who fought like a Jedi, coolly and dispassionately, while Windu was a Jedi who fought like a Sith. I have a feeling Windu's fury might have overwhelmed him, as Anakin's did.

[@GTA2SWcity]

I agree as I've come to a similar conclusion. As for a social dynamic, I have often found that people who feed on the negativity of others for power tend to be weaker and not so bold when they cannot succeed in getting under their opponent's skin. Part of their tactics are to throw you off-balance mentally and emotionally. Your mindset is a foundation: Physically you will follow and imitate your lack of grounding. It also takes an at least somewhat sadistic person to do that, which possibly has a bit of an indictment against the character of Mace Windu. Combined with his reliance on Shatterpoint, it does seem he may be overly dependent on the Force. Likely with being introverted Mace lacks social acumen to read a situation where common sense or deduction could've given him the answers he sought. In fairness, he and the rest of the order were guilty of that same fault. Seems a common problem among Jedi throughout their existence. Remember that Matthew Stover, author of Shatterpoint novel, is a Jeet Kune Do practitioner. Why is this relevant? First, the mindset is relevant. Utilization of your negative emotions into a constructive direction is both a common theme of many martial arts as a way of life, but also a technique for dealing with one's own anger. In Shaolin (one of many disciplines which JKD uses moves from), we learn that although anger grants you short term bursts of strength, speed, and general power, it is weak in endurance. Anger to shaolin is ultimately seen as in itself weakness. Again, the Shaolin emphasize if you _must_ use anger, use it constructively and sparingly, but otherwise avoid it. This is because decisions when angered are rarely constructive, it takes a toll on health, and you tend to get exhausted quickly. Next: The description of Vaapad is based on old footage of Bruce Lee, who invented JKD. Old cameras could only catch maybe 30fps. When Bruce would do his movesets or have matches, he was so fast his arms and legs seemed _invisibly_ fast, while his body was a blur in the footage. Finally: Dooku may be cruel and arrogant, but he's nothing if not disciplined. Without being able to feed off his opponent, Mace Windu might be underwhelming and quickly burn out against disciplined opponents who can outlast him and are skilled enough to not be immediately get killed. Or, it would end with a stalemate with the two of them fighting to a standstill.

[@Liam1991]

You should do a video on rankings the 7 forms of lightsaber. Maybe even do a video on the best combos of styles

[@prestonpretorius482]

How powerful was Darth Vader politically and in the dark side of the force as well as Sith Alchemy and and what was the power Darth Sidious used in the world between world

[@joelbilly1355]

Did windu defeat sidious or did sidious make it appear thus. Remember sidious keeps an extra lightsaber up his sleave. Dooku was likely better with a lightsaber than sidious but Dooku was with his vast knowledge of the jedi arts, power in the force, leadership of the confederacy was a rivial and never a true sith more like a dark jedi.

[@I_Dont_Like_Sand]

Windu’s shatter point ability is what would ultimately get him the W over Dooku not Vaapad. This is also why many say Windu is too OP lol.

[@justaregularguy115]

And even the way Windu died barely passed the smell test (considering the fact that his Shatterpoint abilities should warned him to take Anakin more seriously. I guess you can assume the Dark SIde obscured his vision and provided the opening he needed.

[@snorlaxmunch8675]

An idea could be which lightsaber forms could be the most versatile in multiple situations or something like that

[@crownprincesebastianjohano7069]

We have an answer to this question in the canon 2020 Star Wars Comic Duel on Ridley between Dooku and Mace 1-on-1 in 20 BBY. Vapaad was completely ineffective against Dooku. Also, the match was a draw, though it appears Dooku was notably less pressed than Sidious was in his duel. It was a rather casual draw.

[@BADD400]

Watching some of Dooku light saber battles. He had grace and elegance about him. Compare to others who he fought. Good video

[@PrisonerSB-]

Dooku and Windu actually dueled in the comics. On Boz Pity in Legends and on Ridlay in Canon. Both times Dooku fled but neither opponent gained an edge. Whether or not Windu used Vaapad I don't know. Would've loved to have seen them fight on screen.

[@tonywright9906]

Mace Windu was using Vaapad against Dooku both times.

[@matthewmann8969]

In The Boz Pity Battle Dooku fled not because of Mace himself but because reinforcements on Maces side would arrive in a few minutes if he stayed such as Obi Wan And Anakin and there clone legions yeah.

[@BerserkerX]

I'm in the belief that Dooku would tire too soon leaving himself vulnerable or kill Windu fast.

[@tylerrassi4148]

Was Dooku tired when he defeated Obi-Wan and Anakin at the same time, then anakin again who was duel wielding, then Yoda? You really think Mace would tire him more than those 4 opponents combined?

[@BerserkerX]

@@tylerrassi4148 Dooku did in fact get tired. Yoda is the only one of those opponents whose equal to or greater than Windu as a swordsman, especially at that time. Windu was the master of the order for a reason.

[@WillFredward7167]

Yep. I can imagine the fight ending very quickly, one way or another. Essentially the opposite of Mace vs Sidious or Obi-wan vs Anakin.

[@pullo5518]

Dooku would defeat windu, his makashi mastery would be to efficient, also dooku never fully embraced the dark side, so vaapad would not be to efficient against dooku. Yoda was a greater duelist then windu.

[@birdmanharvey4868]

@pullo so is anakin a better duelist then mace before he ran down on dooku? You have to show that before you say dooku wins.

[@paragon1172000]

Also not stated in the video, Dooku was a master of Dark Meditation. Which is why he channels the dark side without giving himself to the Dark Side.

[@adamlewitt788]

I think doku could effectively counter Mace. Because duku is a master of the light as well as a dark practitioner. I see doku relying on his Jedi skills until Mase has flagged in his offense then goding Mase into taping the dark side and turning.

[@chancebrown106]

6:52 ehhh I’m gona challenge that. Palpy was in his early 60s by AOTC..

[@robertmacdonald7114]

i dont know if you had but what if anakin was able to master vapaad like mace windo at windos level. love the content keep it up guys!

[@theromanorder]

Please do a video on all metals in the star wars universe

[@juliuszukauskas9137]

I have two words Rahm Kota. He has been canonized in recent media if you read all the names on the wall in Obi Wan. He is there. If he retains his experience of dueling as he does from the games, he'd be a form VII practitioner as well.

[@zacharyo3824]

Dookus assessment came from fighting sora bulq and I'm not sure if he dueled Mace in canon or if he saw the development of Vaupad in the 13 years he was gone.

[@scoshyg5133]

Basically everything was that was just sending this video is bullshit. None of this is canon, and this video is a continuation of a long-standing tradition of not understanding what Mace windu form seven was people need to read the Matt Stover book shatter point, and understand that Mase faces a dark side, or that is compared to the emperor, in terms of how deep in the darkness he was. Suffice to say, Mass does not get any sort of him and his battles against kar vastor. The novel in question is no longer considered Canaan, but it was originally part of the specifically Canon prequel media project that was overseen very closely by George Lucas. I consider those prequel novels to be some of the best material in terms of knowing what George’s original vision for all of this was. And form seven is not in anyway, a redirection of the other persons, power directly correlated. That is an entire bastardization and misunderstanding. Mace created the form to channel his own inner darkness not someone else’s.

[@charliethedesertrat3923]

Can you do an in depth of form ii vs form v please.

[@alexadams1151]

Do you have any recommendations for Star Wars books to read/content? Habe you ever done a video on that? It's a big cannon with a lot of highs and lows on material!

[@richardpage5812]

Mace would wipe the floor with Dooku vapaad or not.

[@HopelessReminder]

Dooku preferred the saber duel, he honestly enjoyed it and used his lightning sparingly as it took away from the fun you only see him half-ass it with one hand to mess with his opponent at first before he got into his favorite part

[@BulucBlade3434]

I'd like to see a video regarding the history of prince xizor

[@Ajax1063]

I agree with this assessment based on what has been established with Vaapad. I would also add that hypothetically Mace would have an easier time facing off against Vader than Dooku because Vader too gives himself over to the DS much more freely than Dooku. This is also shown through the consistent Sith eyes that Vader has under his mask at all times. Vader's rage and fear is what dominates his presence in the force.

[@valentinohiggins1653]

So what if vaapad is weak against dooku ? People act as if mace didn’t master all the other forms and force wise he has much more power than dooku. Plus shatterpoint and feat wise mace never lost a fair 1v1 duel ex mother talzin, harl , sora bulq, asajj ventress , general grievious, quinlan vos, jango fett and oh I don’t know the most powerful sith of all time you know dookus master 🌝. Mace gets too downplayed guy was quite literally the Michael Jordan of jedi I’m terms of duelling.

[@Kazuma11290]

Sidious mastered all 7 forms, but Dooku specialized in Makashi, so his mastery of that is in a greater degree. what little advantage Windu gains from vaapad, would be offset by Dooku's Makashi.

[@venomousheart2298]

Both forms (Makashi, Vaapad) are polar opposites but either could equally demolish opponents in their own respective way. If they faced each other it would depend on what stage of time. If it was during EP2 then it would be evenly matched. During the encounter on the Geonosis platform Dooku chose not to directly engage the dangerous Jedi (Dooku was a master strategist and knew when he could win or not). During the clone wars Windu grew in both power and skill. By EP3 Dooku was 82, he would of put up a good fight but overtaken in the end against Windu at this stage.

[@Dampheria1]

I would like to see what if Dooku killed Sidious

[@beatssquaa]

Either way, they are my two favorite characters and the duel I always wanted but never got

[@Archarrow520]

I have a question with all of the the dark side energy while fighting sidious windu was going to kill sidious if anakin had not intervened

[@brokenbridge6316]

Informative video

[@alecjackman2655]

They actually fought before in one of the newer canon comics ‘Star Wars Adventures #10’. In it Mace soundly beats Dooku as he ends up forcing the count to run away from their duel like how he did with Yoda in episode 2

[@GnosticPath]

Very true

[@CameraPunk5049]

A what if scenario; Peak Anakin in ROTS (without Darkside amp) vs Windu would win? Same but with Obi Wan. Now we know at the Time Windu had a deeper connection with the force, but Anakin and Obi Wan weren't far behind and were by far better duelist and they would not get affected by vapaad.

[@modev4163]

I know everyone's already said something to this effect, but although evil Count Dooku with just two level headed and non-emotional for The Darkside to Cloud him like it did other Sith Lords

[@23traves]

@TheStupendousWave I was wondering something. Anakin Skywalker has great technological skills, is a rebel, wants to go out to protect the people of the galaxy and end slavery, and has affinity for Dark Side Abilities. By this definition, would Anakin have been better suited as a Jedi Sentinel rather than a Jedi Guardian? Jedi Sentinels are often out and about in the galaxy protecti g the common folk, have several practical skills that compliment their Force and Lightsaber Abilities, and, in the case of the Jedi Shadows, have permission to use certain Dark Side Powers. These things all fit Anakin to a T. I would like to see a Video to that would look at the Star Wars Universe if he were a Sentinel!

[@LimitBreakZero]

One thing I always wondered was what if Dooku joined the CIS without falling to the dark side - that is, he genuinely believed in the Separatist cause as a solution to the corruption of the Republic.

[@TheManDaniel84]

I wanna know if you can find out if there are more lightsaber forms passed Form 7 and how rare a Jedi or Sith has used that form????

[@ShaunNelson]

Would be great fight, Dooku is one of my favorite combatants. He is ice cold and so precise, if it Mace was in the hanger instead of Obi and Ani in AOTC the outcome would have been the same I feel. Blade to blade Dooku is just way to slick.

[@tempest-523]

Dooku also had a complete look of shock when Anakin chopped off his hands. The arrogance of Dooku was strong it was. That he would think Vaapad was sloppy is not surprising. It's all fun and games until you gets you hands and head chopped off. Point is, you can think whatever you want until you beat the other style multiple times. As Anakin showed, you can lose once and come back and beat the person later as you grow in the force and lightsaber skill within that style. All light saber wielders are not equal within the same styles.

[@Stridentzephon]

Mace windu would win. Many forget Windu was a battle master which meant all forms of combat but specialist of vaapad. Mace has a claimer mind then dooku. Mace learned at a early age the lost to be had if they acted without thought is how he was bestowed his hacurn crystal. If you read shatterpoint and then episode three the true understanding of how mace felt when he saw Anikin as the shatterpoint it shows him how he doesn't see the full picture again which causes his death

[@adam-di7rk]

Vapaad is power throwing your weight behind blows harnessing aggression. Dooku however had more of a saber like hilt designed to parry lightsabers more than blasters and he was more into redirecting momentum. Mace would use wide powerful blows whereas dooku would deflect to one side or the other using the least force possible. Dooku would have gotten mace to a point where he was defeated but he would try to convince his old friend of his path.

[@sasha007courtney]

Master Windu was a member of the Jedi council. Thinking that he knows only Vaapad on high quality is a bit silly.

[@tinynuggins1029]

I wonder if one could use force lightning as a defibrillator in case of a heart attack. Not that a sith would use it on someone else to save a life but as old as Dooku and Palpatine got to be I wouldn't be surprised if they had to give themselves a little jolt every now and then to keep the ol ticker on time. Lol

[@QuietStorm4546]

First I would like to state that Dooku opinion on Vapaad came from dueling against it co-founder Sora, not Mace Windu. During Dooku's duel with Sora, Sora let his passions and anger fly free and so his version of Vaapad regressed more to Juyo. Second Dooku never got the chance to face off against Windu's version of Vaapad. Now with that said I believe that Dooku's Makashi style would be far more precise for the wild/unpredictable Vaapad of Mace. However Mace's Vaapad would be too fast and kinectly too strong for Dooku Makashi. Lastly as Mace said in the novelization of Revenge of the Sith "Vaapad is not all he had". Mace is a master of all other styles of lightsaber dueling.

[@alexmc7798]

Not a fan of the Disney canon retcon that has him using force lightning as a Jedi. The key factor in being able to cast it was that one had to experience it as the subject of an attack. It’s the most emotional combat weapon and it’s kind of ‘eh’ if a Jedi can do it, without having suffered.

[@chadtyers]

Would love a video on darth viktus😍

[@JoseFlores-xc7wu]

Mace easily beat Palpatine so i don't think Count Dooku would had stand a chance against him not to mention Mace also beat General Grivous not only that he crush him

[@skyrimguy217]

Windu beat Palpatine explicitly because he was drawing on Palpatine's strong connection to the dark side an advantage he wouldn't have with Dooku, also Dooku held his own against Anakin & Obi-Wan only to immediately after fight to a stand still with Yoda, it would be a hard fought battle regardless but I would give it to Dooku.

[@77777Spooky]

I think Windu's Shatterpoint still gives him the edge. Also Windu is younger and wont fatigue as easily as Dooku.

[@unigaming9921]

Shatterpoint isn't a win-all tool. Dooku doesn't leave much for openings, and dooku's form is less exhaustive while Windu's is very energy exhaustive

[@MylesKillis]

@@unigaming9921yes but it allows him to use his speed to identify and overwhelm Dookus small holes and thus make them bigger.

[@unigaming9921]

@MylesKillis dooku is the one to have many holes to work against. Dooku would he windus chief weakness. The skill and calmness to slice through vaapad with the skill and finesse to minimize the benefit of shatterpoint

[@AKlover]

Annakin's style was "Kinetic" which is how he beat Dooku. IIRC Juyo was described as kinetic and randomized. A kinetic fighter versus A finesse fighter ................... opposite extremes.

[@isaachouston6207]

Can you do a video about why Obi-Wan lost so easy against Dooku in RotS even after he held his ground when he and Anakin held their ground in the clone wars.

[@KuddlesbergTheFirst]

Legend Grievous learned at least 20-50% this form, but Obi-Wan counters him with form 3 by adjusting his angle or position for a huge difference. This shocked Grievous.

[@matthewmann8969]

Also even before Mace mastered Vaapad he was the ultimate Juyo User even more skilled at that form then Maul And Sidious even by TPM Periods yet not once was he able to best Dooku in Legends Or Canon it either ended with them being equals or Dooku the slight superior and Vaapad would not work on Sith like Dooku, Revan, And Traya since they act less on emotions when fighting usually yeah. And as far as force powers go in terms of telekenesis, force shields, force barriers, force reflexes, force healing, beast control, telepathy, tutiminus, and battle meditation Dooku surpassed Mace and every other Jedi in those force powers except for Yoda he had a the third highest potential in the order around TPM Circa after Anakin And Yoda with Mace having the fourth highest. Mace is no joke in any way but compared to Yoda, Dooku, Sids, And Plagueis in terms of force powers besides shatterpoint and most force augmentation abilities he would be overwhelmed by them if they had a force tug of war yeah.

[@bradleysaunders1730]

vaapad doesnt rely on the other user, that happened once when fighting sidious, it also draws from maces own darkness so it would be effective against anyone.

[@arronfrazier7873]

Windu and Yoda were right next to Palpatine while he was shooting lighting at them. If they were off by at least 8 or more feet, they wouldn't looking like they were being forced back!