Why Vietnamese people don't know their own alphabet

[@rubiks6]

Wow. That was very, very, very helpful. I have questions for my friend who teaches me Vietnamese but she often makes me more confused. Now I understand so much more and can interpret what she says by identifying which pronunciation she is using when she talks about letters. Thank you Annie!

[@wish7321]

Fascinating, I never thought about it before. My parents are both Vietnamese. I asked my dad just now and he couldn't recite the alphabet either. When my mom taught me Vietnamese words as a child, she also taught me to read phonetically in the way that you mentioned at 3:29 .

[@trien30]

It is so confusing. One time the Vietnamese interpreter with a Hanoian accent said to the Vietnamese client, trying to spell a street name from English: first, using the names of the letters from the Vietnamese alphabet (via influence from Portuguese, French, Italian and Romanian, but ultimately pronounced in French but also confusingly had established accent marks for the change in pronunciation plus diacritical marks used for the tones which is the result of 3 centuries of Europeans' efforts in proselytizing the Buddhist/Confucian population into being preached about Catholicism, in order to do that had to romanize the Vietnamese language called the Vietnamese alphabet today, which was actually a compromise between preaching Catholics and Vietnamese scholars' efforts): the client didn't understand. Then the interpreter tried the phonetic way of pronouncing the letters to the client. The Vietnamese client still didn't understand the Vietnamese interpreter and in frustration, the Vietnamese client asked the Vietnamese interpreter to say the letters (the way it's said) in English. There's a Vietnamese woman on KZbin who desperately learned Mandarin Chinese in an effort to get Chinese people to translate what her ancestors wrote which she didn't understand and it wasn't even in just Chinese, it was in Chữ Nôm or Hán-Nôm. The material was too small, I certainly can't tell if it was in Chữ Nôm or Hán-Nôm.

[@ToanPhan-rs8mp]

Em nghĩ gờ lấn át giê là để phân biệt với dê. Tại nhiều lúc gi Hà Nội đọc là /z/, ngay cả trong từ ngoại lai. Vì có nhiều loại tên gọi quá nên nhiều chữ bị đồng âm. Thí dụ như “ơ” có thể là E (kiều Pháp) hoặc Ơ, “zi” có thể là Gi hoặc J. đê có thể là Đ hoặc D. Nói chung là rất phức tạp :)

[@ProjectNepal]

this video was strangely suggested to me at the best timing ever. my Ha Noi-an gf works as an interpreter, and was complaining to me a few hours ago on how Viet Kieus dont pronounce alphabets consistently. The "CGV" example was so enlightening and it gave me a huge weapon against her argument. I concluded that even native vietnamese people dont pronounce alphabets consistently and therefore her complaint was invalid. This is so funny and it made my day hahahaha

[@legatrix]

Great video, thanks. The typical privileged or mildly privileged kid here (i.e. one who has English lessons outside of school) thus effectively has to deal with four competing systems of pronouncing the Latin characters: Vietnamese traditional (French-derived), Vietnamese phonetic, English 'letters' and English 'sounds', where the latter are certainly of questionable benefit IMO. That could seem to some a heavy burden, although in practice it's of course manageable. (Compare the recurring, unjustified scares about bilingual children taking longer to learn to speak.) There's also the problem that the Vietnamese names of the letters must themselves differ in pronunciation by region (giê)!

[@gltam1057]

I have always loved your style of teaching, God bless you.

[@kauffner]

The Vietnamese alphabet is based on the Portuguese alphabet and was created by Portuguese missionary Francisco de Pina (1585 - 1625). One clue that the origin of the alphabet is Portuguese rather than French is the way that the "nh" sound is handled.

[@gpkc]

I love your explanations in English! I can understand you so much better, it is closer to the English that I understand ^^

[@vincentoliver6928]

I was not aware of these differences - the same in many languages! The historical explanation interesting. Useful, practical examples.

[@sazji]

Ha, that will be a fun challenge! (I’m already imagining what the Viet folks in my neighborhood will think when this American guy comes in and asks them to say the alphabet!) 😅

[@ruedigernassauer]

In the 70´s in Germany I first learnt the names of the letters almost by the method of professor Hoàng Xuân Hãng. That meant for consonants that we produced their sound with as little vowel following as possible, so "B" a bit like "Bờ". Likewise with "C" and "Q" that doen´t work to distinguish. Afterwards but still in the first year of school we learnt their real names, so "B" = "Bê". Parallel to that we copied entire words on paper from start on. This was to make us acquainted to the look of words. This is because for the German language in its written form it is easy to guess the pronunciation but several ways of spelling could be possible to distinguish different meanings in same sounding words (examples: wahr - war, Beet - bet, ist - isst, Hast - hast - hasst, Miene - Mine, Boote - Bote and so on).

[@crazystemlady]

Agreed. My fam is from Vietnam but I was born in us. My gma often says “ai biet” bc she doesn’t know the real proper things since she couldn’t afford school in VN hahah

[@donvicente7947]

Không phải TẤT CẢ người Việt Nam không rành mẫu tự của tiếng Việt Nam. Trước 1975, miền Nam không có trở ngại đó. Nền giáo dục miền Nam không dạy học sinh phát âm các mẫu tự như miền Bắc. Trong video clip nầy ở phút 0:31, đó là lối phát âm 3 chữ GDP của dân miền Nam trước 1975. Ở phút 0:39 là tác phẩm giáo dục của miền Bắc. Hy vọng trong các video khác Annie nói về cách dùng động từ thành danh từ và danh từ thành động từ. Thí dụ: a) Lái xe lái xe lại đây. Chữ lái xe đầu là driver; chữ thứ hai là drive(s). b) "Tôi rất thần tượng anh" (người miền Nam trước 1975 nói "Anh là thần tượng của tôi.")

[@MalMilligan]

Yeah the language is still evolving and additionally the regional differences mean Vietnamese people might have 3 different "Alphabet Songs" to teach kids. A long time ago I was taught the English phonetic sound of l, m, and n was "ella", "emma", "enna". The letter r I think they said "errah". Now it is "luh", "muh", "nuh" and "ruh" (did I get that right)... although in the style of the Alphabet Song in the video she pronounces the r as "jhay". Which is not confusing to kids but it is confusing to adults who ask why... Hay quá !

[@sazji]

In Turkey it seems they’re still trying to make one stick. They have a couple versions over the English alphabet tune, and some others. I never hear kids singing it there though. All the consonants are just the consonant sound plus “e.” (Indeed, pronouncing some of them with “a” is a way of announcing non-sympathy with certain leftist organizations…) There are several different songs for the Greek alphabet too, but the coolest one is this one: kzbin.info/www/bejne/eZCzk5h-a7qgfdk

[@legatrix]

In other words, they've moved from letter names to letter sounds. The reason they now use /l/ etc. is because it supposedly reduces confusion when kids come to read out words. So if they see 'lab', they can directly apply what they learned from the song to sound it out. But this is mistaken in my view, because what is the alternative---that a child looks at 'lab' and reads it (roughly) [εleibi]? Very unlikely, beyond absolute beginner stage. Once this alternative and others are spelt out, some of the assumptions behind phonics become more questionable, I think.

[@sazji]

@@legatrix I remember learning the alphabet as a little kid and being confused as to why the letter that made the “H” sound was pronounced “eich.” :-) I insisted it should be “heich!” (Actually some English people pronounce it that way but I had no idea…)

[@legatrix]

@@sazji haha yes. You may well know that it's a kind of shibboleth in the UK---people will stigmatize others for h-dropping. It's traditionally been a sign of a good education not to h-drop---in all words, not just the name of the letter. This was famously portrayed in My Fair Lady, with the linguist character of Henry Higgins ('Enry 'Iggins)!

[@sazji]

@@legatrix Yep. But in the case of H, adding it is non-standard. Meanwhile in the US we rarely drop H, except in the word “herb.” Pronouncing it “erb” is standard here while the Brits say it as written. (As Eddie Izzard said, “we say _h_erb, because it’s got a fuckin’ H in it!) :-)

[@khengsiongchew5612]

I wonder if the alphabet song has a Hanoi accent version 😅

[@LearnVietnameseWithAnnie]

Yes ha ha check this one out! kzbin.info/www/bejne/qnPanH53pNaNaa8

[@waynevietnam]

Good job!

[@duquantran3795]

trời em đã thắc mắc cái vấn đề này từ lâu rồi @@ em cứ ko hiểu tại sao cách mà ng vn gọi chữ cái kỳ lạ như vậy > < cám ơn cô Annie nha

[@vietlover09]

Learning more everyday about how confusing the Vietnamese language is, lol! Kho lam!!!

[@georg3364]

Anh đã trải nghiệm một cùng hiện tượng ở nước Đức lúc anh học lớp 1: Ba mẹ anh đã dạy anh bảng chữ cái có tên đúng của các chữ cái rồi, nhưng ở trường, người cô giáo dạy các chữ cái theo phát âm. Đôi khi anh nhận ra những điểm tương đồng thú vị của tiếng Việt với tiếng Đức!

[@maotran351]

You are wrong totally. They are 100% foreign characters. How can you force Vietnamese to spell Latin Alphabet correctly? It was introduced to Vietnam thousand years after the Vietnamese language created.