Why We Say "O" instead of "Zero" for Numbers

Mr. Beat explains why English speakers often say "o" instead of "zero."
Produced by Matt Beat, who, as it turns out, is Mr. Beat.
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#worldhistory #linguistics #history
Why do we say “O” instead of zero for numbers?
No one knows exactly when this started, but it likely goes back to the Middle Ages. During this time, people used the Latin alphabet to write numbers, and eventually they used the letter “o” to represent zero. It’s also worth noting that the English language didn’t even have a word for zero until much later than other parts of the world. When English speakers DID have a word for it, they often said “naught,” which basically means “nothing.”
I mean it means something, which is nothing. Clear as mud?
Anyway, later on, English speakers said “o” instead of zero because it looks so similar to zero, especially after telephones and typewriters became common household items. And let’s just face it, in the modern age, “o” is just a bit easier to say than “zero.” We’re lazy bums.

[@osberswgaming]

They call me 007 0 friends 0 good grades 7 years in jail

[@osberswgaming]

(This is obviously a joke, I actually have 42 years in prison)

[@Spiderfisch]

So we should actually call you 007×7

[@rendola1514]

@@Spiderfisch Actually it's 7x6 🤓🤓🤓

[@Spiderfisch]

@@rendola1514 yeah i never was good at math

[@iammrbeat]

You have at least a few friends, myself included.

[@daniellanctot6548]

“We’re lazy bums”... That was all the explanations needed!

[@Smitho94]

“We” he isn’t even English

[@Jayden3649]

Not lazy efficient this kind of phrasing prevents smart people from cresting systems that revolutionise the world like machines for factory work or tractors and tools for farming those are all efficient not lazy and it's the ssme with language this kind of phrasing will make this kind of thinking more common snd lead to more people who believe they r lazy instead of being encouraged to find a way to be efficient

[@Maxzes_]

@@Smitho94But he speaks the English language.

[@nightspicer]

@@Smitho94 it's not just the English that say "o" instead of zero

[@gerrylast]

"we"does not include anyone that opened a PayPal ket to find 1 dollar because some idiot was too dumb or lazy to know the difference. Everyone can be bothered to get it correct in the pay packet right?

[@theodorehadley1292]

For the past year I have tried to say zero instead of o when talking to others. Interesting how far back this goes.

[@iammrbeat]

Let's start the zero trend!

[@JmKrokY]

Cool

[@blueninja012]

​@@iammrbeat nah, I'm too much of a lazy bum for one more syllable

[@MushroomMan64]

​@@blueninja012 guess you'll get o enjoyment outta this trend?

[@bcubed72]

People will think you ex-military, pilot or something. Try saying "tree" and "fife" for 3 and 5 to emphasize this. (Not "niner"; that's just "trying too hard" and obvious.)

[@paulcooper8818]

Jethro Bodine would call James Bond a double naught spy.

[@iammrbeat]

True

[@LKMNOP]

Thank you so much for that memory!

[@castleanthrax1833]

Max Baer?

[@DavidBugea]

Working in banking and finance, in the days before email and encrypted messaging we’d have to provide our accounting and wire transfer folks with amounts, account numbers and such over the phone. To avoid errors we weren’t allowed to say “oh” for “zero,” or to combine digits when speaking numbers: 1024 was “one, zero, two, four,” never “ten twenty four.” So to this day I still tend to say zero, and speak each digit individually.

[@DrDipsh1t]

This. Even just dealing with reading numbers over the phone to customer service, giving my email address, phone number, etc. Email especially as there's usually letters and numbers so you don't want to confuse people (double for those that replaced letters with numbers for stylization like b00ger)

[@natetv1494]

This is foreign

[@DJ_Force]

Interesting. I often say ten twenty three instead of 1023 because it conveys more information. You know ten twenty three is four digits, where as 1 0 2 3 could have a dropped digits.

[@randomjunkohyeah1]

“Naught” is still used, especially in certain STEM contexts

[@circuit10]

I think it’s British or something, at least in England me and and most people say e.g. “nought point nine nine”

[@randomjunkohyeah1]

@@circuit10 The use I think of first is when pronouncing the name of a variable where “0” is the subscript, like the start of a sequence- “N⌄0” would be said as either “N sub zero” or “N naught”

[@noesph1637]

Grew up in Ireland, I'd say naught is more common than o or zero.

[@satyakisil9711]

Naught is used for naming the first element of a series of values. The element rank is typically in subscript or superscript. For example, when calculating the resistance of a wire at a temperature T, the resistivity can be called ρ₀ at absolute zero.

[@randomjunkohyeah1]

@@satyakisil9711 Yep, just like I said!

[@AKingofBacon]

I have always been a 'zero' purist. Zero deserves respect!

[@tomrogue13]

I will give zero respect!

[@Undercaffinated]

All power to the zero!

[@KirkWaiblinger]

Please pronounce the year 1901

[@doshi6311]

​@@KirkWaiblinger nineteen zero one

[@stupidmonkey151]

​​@@doshi6311 Might as well say one thousand nine hundred while you're at it.

[@davidtomasetti8520]

I do not say oh when I mean zero, it avoids confusion

[@iammrbeat]

Heck yes

[@tonyisnotdead]

only idiots would be confused

[@davidtomasetti8520]

@@tonyisnotdead oh?

[@bcubed72]

Zero, I see...

[@PULSAR11]

Same

[@caryrodda]

That is very interesting. I never would have guessed it goes back as far as that; I would have just figured it began in the telephone age.

[@iammrbeat]

It surprised me, too!

[@sagetmaster4]

You'll hear naught a fair amount in different scenarios in UK English like "naught point oh" for 0.0 interestingly for metal gauges in America English the word "aught" is used for zero

[@sallomon2357]

Also "naughts and crosses"

[@KeithGrant]

This video raises the question: why do we say begs the question (i.e. the logical fallacy) when we actually mean “raises the question”

[@bobbuilder3748]

Yes! People are idiots.

[@sebastiangudino9377]

For those curious, in Spanish we do call it "zero zero seven"

[@rwik....170]

In india too.. I was also confused when western say oh oh..

[@seiya-chon]

In Russian too

[@JavSusLar]

Well... Cero cero siete.

[@xtokumaru]

In portuguese we call him "zero zero seven" ("zero zero sete") too. I don't think we ever call zero anything else. We often call six "meia" though, which is short for "meia dúzia" ("half a dozen").

[@bobbuilder3748]

It's one of my pet peeves, along with people who use the phrase "Begs the question" incorrectly. I say zero, much to the annoyance of others.

[@tym6217]

The connection is as simple as O and 0 looking similar or even that the last syllable of zeer-oh is just "oh" but the real reason why it's so commonly to pronounce 0 as "oh" really is as simple as the fact that it's just shorter than enunciating zero in its entirety. Language often tends towards slang that shortens down commonly used words or phrases, it's ubiquitous.

[@johnhulse4674]

Very well said.

[@daniel-panek]

I say zero for zip codes and phone numbers and strings of numbers aside from the year. 007 is called "double oh seven" so I use that. Definitely much less common to say zero instead of "oh".

[@codeman99-dev]

It's reference numbers vs math numbers. You simply don't say zero. In math you have other words for placeholder zeros (hundred, thousand). In reference numbers (phone, address, year) it is different because you generally say every digit.

[@ur_local_nintendo_ds]

"English didn't have a word for zero much later than other countries-" India: the first "other country" is me

[@abrahamlincoln937]

I have always wondered whether why people said O instead of zero, including myself. Thank you, Mr. Beat.

[@DerWaidmann_]

I've always wondered why we say "Ought" when we pronounce 0s when referring to ammunition, such as 30-06 or 00 Buckshot

[@rld1278]

I was just thinking that...

[@hpsauce1078]

I'm originally from the UK but for a while attended school in New York in the US and I still have vivid memories of other kids and even teachers not understanding me when I pronounced numbers. Saying things like "Naught-point-Naught-Seven" just returned blank, perplexed stares.

[@dvdly]

As to modern usage, whereby people switch between "zero" and "O", I'd say it is a natural occurrence similar to how we pronounce the article "the" as either "thee" or "thuh" depending on what follows it. Wherever the corresponding "a" is used, as before any consonant sound (a book), we naturally say "thuh book" (which rhymes), whereas before vowel sounds, as in "an egg", we naturally use "thee egg", because it flows from the one syllable to the next more easily.

[@MrZorx75]

It’s also based on stress - generally speaking, English doesn’t stress schwas so if you stress the word ‘the,’ the schwa is replaced with /i/.

[@ericeaton2386]

That might be your experience, but it's certainly not mine. I only ever hear people say "thee" for emphasis, regardless of the following word. "Thuh" is used as default, and saying, for example, "I cooked 'thuh' egg" sounds totally natural to me, whereas "I cooked 'thee' egg" sounds to me like they're mentioning a specific egg and expect me to know about it."

[@dvdly]

@@ericeaton2386 As regards "thee egg" sounding specific: Were the first syllable in the article-noun word pair to be stressed, I'd agree with you. But since the article is almost never stressed, the long or short pronunciation of the preceding article gets barely heard. And, anyway, no matter how it's pronounced, it is a specific article after all. As to that which sounds natural: I wouldn't make the claim that there are no exceptions to any rule or general tendency. Thuh point is, those are thee exceptions.

[@k.k.9378]

So what are the rules that determine which allomorph of the digit you pronounce?

[@aez1814]

@@ericeaton2386are you from the uk?

[@SchuminWeb]

"What can I say: we're lazy bums." Well put.

[@tigernotwoods914]

It doesn’t beg the question. It raises the question. 😉 Interestingly enough in the military that’s one of the habits they break you of. It’s drilled in your head. Zero. O is a letter. Zero is a number. This along with the phonetic alphabet.

[@ronalddg9369]

I got this short on my home page, which means I specifically picked it out, but after that, knowing what the video is about, zero-zero-seven did not even alert me until you said it was supposed to.

[@jhonnyrock]

I've always felt like the "O" is an abbreviation for zero since it's the last letter of the word. Like in 1502, spelled fifteen 'o (zero) two

[@iammrbeat]

I found no evidence of this when researching.

[@jhonnyrock]

@@iammrbeat O well!

[@SidewalkLover]

Mr. Beat has been entertaining me with education for years now. This sneaky pete tricked me into learning!! 😂😂

[@hexagon8899]

when remembering the digits of pi, the first 2 zeros i remembered as saying “zero”, and the rest i remember as saying “oh”

[@TancredofAntioch]

Even though it might seem erroneous, I think this is here to stay; I agree that its continued usage is probably reliant on its ease-of-saying. In proper radio etiquette, however, the number is always expressed as 'zero,' and even large numbers are read digit by digit to create clarity. edit: Also, "aught" can be used for zero in many cases in addition to words like "naught/nought" and "nil/nihil." It is particularly interesting because I am pretty sure that naught and aught are antonyms in most senses.

[@anonymoususer638]

Using "aught" would be somewhat strange due to its similarity to "ought". There's a great deal of difference between "aught 2" and "ought to" yet they sound the exact same.

[@TancredofAntioch]

@@anonymoususer638 Yeah, it definitely originated before dictionaries were commonplace and spelling was subjectively phonetic. In fact, the number/term "aught" has sometimes been spelled "ought," despite having no relation to the possessive term. Both of those words come from different etymologies though, but are deceptively similar phonetically. Maybe that is part of the reason why 'aught' has fallen out of common-usage.

[@augiegirl1]

I believe that from the years 1901-1909, “aught” was used as a substitute for zero. I.E. In “The Music Man”, Harold Hill said he was part of the (graduating) class of “Aught-Five”.

[@michaeldesanta977]

*Old Britain:* _Naught._ *Old Kentucky:* _Aught._

[@alphabrother6823]

Also worth pointing out that “zero” ends in “O” in both spelling and pronunciation

[@snowman7070]

Good observation most people never think about. 007 vs oo7

[@Jonathan_Doe_]

Midlands U.K. speakers still use nought a lot, except we pronounce it closer to note. Nowt.

[@elram2649]

Awesome! This is the second video I see today stating how lazy we are... and hinting at the much greater historical significance is a stone's throw away. 😎👌

[@missladydollette4458]

Never knew about this problem nor have I ever encounter this situation. I was always used to saying zero and so have others surrounding me

[@Mashfi23]

... I've always said "zero zero seven", and I had no idea that it isn't supposed to be the common way to say it

[@PaultheAlien4]

O, Mr Beat, always zeroing in on the big issues!

[@F1ANKSTEAK]

*raises the question. It doesnt beg the question

[@rosiefay7283]

IME always oh, never zero, for a single 0 within a longer digit string such as a phone number. But then always zero, never oh, for a single 0 before the decimal point, or for the last digit after the decimal point. For example zero point five, or one point zero.

[@JohnFKennedy529]

I have heard others use it, but I never saw the need to say it like "oh". I've always said it as "zero" without any problems. I guess I'm a trendsetter then!

[@joeavent5554]

If one was caught saying O instead of zero during boot camp, push-ups for an eternity. On a Military radio network, it was a sin to use O vs zero.

[@dickyarya8204]

The answer is simply because "O" is the easiest letter to pronounce and zero has two syllable and like Kiky and boba thingy, it's harder to pronounce

[@PhattyBolger]

In pre-vowel shift times and currently in Northern England, "naught" is pronounced "nowt"- the opposite being "aught" or "owt". "What's up?" "Nowt"

[@bernier42]

I feel like the last part is all the explanation needed (that “oh” is easier to say than “zero”). But it’s not that we’re lazy bums, it’s that expending extra effort (however minimal) for no extra value is a waste of energy. It’s a really small example of “working smarter, not harder”.

[@victoriabaker6943]

I never saw a Bond movie all the way through. Like most movies, ji fall asleep. It takes a lot to keep me awake, Mr. Beat The subject has come up as to who really tampered with Nordstream 2. Russia? US lone? NATO + US? I have a theory, but I don’t want to make public yet. Can you do Mr Beat presents?

[@MsPoliteRants]

The first time I heard someone refer to 0 as “naught” was when they said “in the early naughts”. I was incredibly confused. They meant early 2000’s.

[@castleanthrax1833]

You mean the naughties?

[@sergioventura2595]

Because it’s cool 😎

[@iammrbeat]

Always the answer. :)

[@pelletrouge3032]

Romania or chad

[@LanceMosher]

It doesn’t get the question; it raises the question. “Begging the question” is often misused.

[@theodorelopez8971]

What a missed opportunity for a classic Simpsons quote: "Social Security Number ... Naught naught naught... naught naught... naught naught naught two. Damned Roosevelt."

[@craiganderson3952]

my OCD, I say zero, sometimes naught and occasionally " oh " very cool mate!

[@augustinealbertsouza9434]

Do not forget the Indian connection, who gave the idea of zero as a result counting became simpler which the European learnt from the Arabs which they learnt from India.

[@johncassani6780]

It’s interesting you brought up typewriters. A lot of old manual typewriters didn’t have the number 1. You had to use lower case “l.”

[@Sludge73]

In the example you have to say "O", otherwise you'd just say seven. The zeros are place holders in number format. I deal with spoken numbers a bit. I use zero when speaking.

[@meetjeric]

I hath knew naught of it kind sir till thou explaineth about the letter O

[@rohanbari]

Scientifically, we call it naught when expressing permittivity and permeability of an object in free space.

[@ikbintom]

What about null though, in Dutch and German that's the normal word for zero. Was it never also the word for zero in English?

[@Akina-vh5by]

In french we do call him (translated) zero zero seven

[@Man-of-Steel674]

I don't if it's a UK thing that is eventually passed on to our sub continental culture. In here Sri Lanka "posh" English Speakers and most teachers still refer to zero as naught. I don't use it because I am not posh and willingly avoid using British slang because of my anti-British sentiment. I went even as far as to learn specifically American words to show patriotism. Yes, I am an history edge lord. Edit: I don't hate brits I just love being anti British on the internet.

[@iammrbeat]

Fascinating stuff. Thanks for sharing!

[@Man-of-Steel674]

@@iammrbeat Anytime

[@D.S.handle]

Damn, James Bond really did go rogue.

[@cjc520]

Well as a British person I guess ill.say I don't hate all Sri Lankans as I've met some lovely people from there but saying you only are anti British on the internet doesn't make you seem less prejudiced than if I said it!

[@fordhouse8b]

Yet your internet handle is the name of British fictional secret agent?

[@tobeytransport2802]

People here also say “naught” in the UK

[@pablo2448]

As a non english speaker, this is very informative Mr. Beat, thanks

[@SchwarbageTruck]

Sometimes in the US you'll hear "aught" for "zero", probably corrupted from "naught", almost always related to old-timey things like "THE YEAR NINETEEN AUGHT THREE" to say "1903". I think the only thing I've heard it used in contemporary usage is from american firearm enthusiasts describing bullet calibers, such as "30-06" being called "THIRTY AUGHT SIX"

[@TheSSUltimateGoku]

I think it’s pretty simple zero and the letter O pretty much look alike are the Number that has a resemblance to the O and it probably often confused people. And so they relatively viewed them as similar to one another and that led to them being viewed as one in the same.

[@SD43.55]

one AND the same.

[@jesusdavis2941]

That's something that blocks my mind when I hear "O" instead of "0" (just like for ex. "fifteen hundred-1500" etc) or all the abreviations and acronyms

[@tillie_brn]

In French we do say "zéro zéro sept" :D We never say "O" instead of "zero", I do wonder why that is. 🤔

[@Storm-yb7md]

Because different languages have different rules, and it's the most logical thing to say

[@Hungry_Box]

I always use zero...unless we're talking about specific names...Double O-7

[@LeoDas688]

Zero originated in India and it was written like o

[@orsivan5731]

British english still uses naught. The older generation in Australia uses naught while the younger generation (with a stonger American influence) just says zero or O.

[@loworochi]

So that’s why Brits call 0.01% naught point naught one percent even though here in america we say zero point zero one percent

[@gladyslambert398]

I had a teacher that said aught instead of zero. That was back in the mid 1960’s.

[@mainlander3920]

In Brazil we still use "zero".

[@thepenguin9]

Just realised I use naught when using decimals Naught point 2, etc

[@rparl]

When I learned to type, the typewriter didn't have a zero OR a one key. A capital Oh was used for zero and a lower case L was used for one. The first time I had to distinguish between them was when I used a key punch for what we called IBM punch cards. Fortunately I wasn't bothered by hanging chad.

[@iammrbeat]

🤔

[@divs7415]

I will always say "zero" instead of "O" because it should have a unique name

[@SpiritmanProductions]

In English English: • 'naught' means 'nothing', but is now rare. • 'nought' is the digit '0' in numerical values (e.g. 0.3 = "nought point three"). • 'oh' is most common for zeros in phone numbers and years (e.g. 1908 = "nineteen oh eight"). EDIT: I thought I'd add some more: • 'nil' is used in football scores (e.g. 2-0 = "two-nil"). • 'null' in natural language means 'without value' (e.g. in the expression "null and void"). • 'null' in computer languages refers to the concept of 'empty' or 'nothing' and can be represented by the numerical value 0. • 'zero' is the name of the digit '0' but also refers idiomatically to nothingness (e.g. "from hero to zero"). • 'zilch' and 'nada' [pr. ˈnaða] are informal emphatic terms for 'absolutely nothing'.

[@jackjack-kq3vc]

thanks for the info man. i was crazy about this shit. its even weirder when you are a foreigner in the american soil.

[@gerrylast]

I guess it is an indication of inteligence. I tend not to purchase anything from a site that does not know the difference for the simple reason that they tend to choose to know the difference when sending the bill out. Simple as that.

[@souptime8635]

Is this common to say in other Germanic languages? I know that it isn't used in Scandinavia.

[@iammrbeat]

I think it's an English thing. It started with Middle English.

[@orz4567891]

In Japanese even though there is a word for zero and the English word as well, a lot of people say “Maru” for zero, which means circle. It isn’t any shorter but it kind of just rolls off the tongue.

[@Ilikestarwars1245]

I also saw it as a abbreviation for zero as if we're only saying the last syllable. zer-o

[@deleted-something]

Something interesting is that at my high-school the teachers say the rooms in the order of 1-O-8 instead of 108, Idk if this is something that happens everywhere or just here

[@ammitthedevourer7316]

Just to clarify: rather than saying “room one hundred eight,” they say “room one oh eight,” right? If so, I don’t think it’s technically an everywhere thing, but I’ve heard it in several places and across English speaking media so it’s not exclusively a local thing either.

[@deleted-something]

@@ammitthedevourer7316 yes

[@rais1953]

If 108 is the eighth room on level 1 it's not "one hundred and eight". Or is it the 108th room in the school?

[@MrWolf-xk8sl]

In Italian we say "zero zero seven"

[@PANDA-rg1bk]

I heard it was because of the typewriter, cause some of them didn’t have the number 0 as to save cost and to make them compact so they had to use O as a substitute for zero

[@WiggyWamWam]

If I can make a production suggestion - Consider using translucent powder on your face and neck, and lighting/white balance that’s a little warmer. I think it would really improve the perceived professionalism.

[@wayneliang4524]

In the part of Wales I studied in people say naught for zero

[@loreleihillard5078]

OO7 isn't actually zero's, it's supposed the letter O in the original books

[@Dushmann_]

There is a whole quest around this concept in New Vegas

[@Demonetization_Symbol]

I actually read it as "zero zero seven" in my mind.

[@darknessnight1115]

Love tidbits like this. Fun stuff!

[@Sphere377]

I am not a native English speaker, and I find myself using both. In date and time I would use O, but just numbers such as a price, phone numbers or large numbers in financial reports I would use zero.

[@BiggestBigBoy]

I use "zero", but I also cross my 7s, and 0s.

[@elygolden]

English is also unique here in that there is a whole separate "informal" number system that is used for numbers between 100 and 10000, and uses the "oh" convention extensively. I can't think of any other languages that have this

[@justsomebread1910]

"Ought" is also used for zero, commonly when two zeros, "00", are together

[@Silviola824]

Caught myself doing this recently. Example, I have a phone number with two 0's in it. The first one I say O, the second one I say zero. Why? No clue... just flows better I guess

[@dvdly]

I think it's due to "oh-zero" flowing better than "oh-oh", which requires two consecutive starts, as opposed to two consecutive syllables rolling into each other. The same phenomenon occurs when using the article "the" and sometimes pronouncing it "thee" and sometimes "thuh". Wherever "a" is used, as before any consonant sound (a book) then we naturally say "thuh book", whereas before vowel sounds, as in "an egg", we naturally use "thee egg", because it flows from the one syllable to the next more easily.

[@SD43.55]

@@dvdly 'double o' or 'double zero' aren't exactly tongue twisters

[@dvdly]

Sure, and either'd be easy enough alternatives. But neither my comment nor that to which I was replying make any reference to using "double". @@SD43.55

[@mr.beatfan8814]

This gives me more questions then answers. Does anyone know why September is the 9th month instead of the seventh, October the 10th month instead of the eighth and so on?

[@TancredofAntioch]

Two months were added to the Roman calendar, I believe that they were the months of January/February

[@Compucles]

This little quirk leads to mathematicians supposedly mixing up Halloween and Christmas, since OCT 31 = DEC 25 (or 31 in Base 8 = 25 in Base 10).

[@exodus3015]

The time we save saying "o" instead of "zero" is priceless

[@missylks1239]

I do telework. The O/Zero thing is an issue. It sucks for emails. If someone has a strong accent, 0 pronounced like “O” can sound like 4 or 1. I’ve stuck with saying ZERO with the exception of time. 9’O clock.

[@hippo1701]

I called him zero zero seven. And zero when I am giving numbers. Although my wife is trying to change me to double o 7.

[@marioo849]

I didn't even know that there was another word for zero

[@mcfarofinha134]

I still say naught in decimal situations when before the dot. I heard this is more of a british thing, but I've always said it this because it rolls of the tongue better. Naught point o is alot smoother than zero point o, or o point o

[@camelfilters3224]

There's one way to break the habit... Sound off to a drill instructor and say "O" instead of zero. It'll be the fast shark attack followed up with knife hands you've ever seen.😂

[@Dexiclon]

Zer-o so in many ways o is just a shortened version.

[@MistbornPrincess]

I try to my best not to say “oh” when meaning “zero” but I’ll admit that when it comes to 007, it’s hard not to hear “double oh seven” and say it.