Why You Don't Get What You Pay For - A Comparison Of Budget And Premium Keyboards

[@JustSomeGuy009]

About to watch the video, but IMO 99% of the perception of "premium" comes from a scarcity of a product that has been perceived as sought after due to hype created by content creators. With a small part coming from the style/design of the keyboard such as elegant lines, unique color, weight design, etc. But note that style/design is not QUALITY and trying to argue this would be akin to trying to argue one form of art/architecture/music/etc is better than another. If you've ever dealt with the world of classic cars then this will be familiar to you. There is a reason Barrett-Jackson auctions talk about the rarity of the car and the previous sale prices were and less about the features, functionality, benefits, and overall quality of the product. I will also say that the cost does not directly reflect quality as there are brands and group buy runners that simply charge higher margins because they can vs others. Brands that will create a perceived quality disparity in competing products to sell you the "more expensive" product at a higher margin because the actual cost difference is trivial. This is common in many industries by many companies. Apple products come to mind immediately. Also, IMO most of the time when someone starts talking about the "sound" of the keyboard they are selling you a lie because they really have nothing of substance to say. EDIT: Try to argue why a Unikorn, Jane, etc boards sell for what they do vs what you can get for

[@ryanbb474]

Do tell what keyboards do you recommend sub $300? New to the hobby and as you say I’m convinced there are great options vs the rare limited supply. I have a GMMK Pro and Keychron K10 pro now

[@Seeeaaan]

@@ryanbb474i use 60 percents so I can only speak for them. The arc 60 is an amazing board that comes with 2 pcbs for under 300. The frog mini is being discounted rn on geon's store and board + the pcb that you need to buy separately would bring it close to the 300 usd mark. Both are pretty amazing 300ish dollar boards with the frog mini having a unique tadpole top mounting style and the arc60's ability to run plateless gasket with the solder pcb

[@winstreakin]

I know this is an older comment but just coming from someone who worked in and made boards for the keyboard hobby, a HUGE reason for the price and "premium nature" wasn't just because of the design and scarcity. It's literally just because the people who started as vendors started as complete hobbyists with no actual knowledge on keyboards or manufacturing or logistics. That + A lack of buying power = higher pricing, there's only one real way to get people to buy, which is slapping a huge brass weight on the back and calling it "high end". Because you can't compete in the budget market without a huge amount of buying power, I'm personally working into getting that buying power right now as I want to compete in the budget market but to a specific niche in the hobby I have always liked. Most of the boards and products we sold were on razor thin/20% or under margins which in most worlds would make a "premium product" non-feasible. since perfection is expected a high amount of refinement is expected and when you are buying in low quantities you have to shop around with manufacturers that aren't necessarily the best known for their reputation. Not giving an excuse to vendors, as at the end of the day we need to keep you guys happy as consumers and if we don't then we deserve to go out of business. But just trying to give a little bit of perspective behind the curtain.

[@Ray.F]

I love your take about how the threshold for "quality" is not shifting from one end of the spectrum to the other, in fact, it's expanding for both spectrums! This is very true especially for the hobby in 2023. Overall, great video, and I've subbed.

[@CheeseTurbulence]

Thank you! Very much appreciated 🙂

[@wealth7385]

lactose intolerant keyboard aficionado gang rise up

[@CheeseTurbulence]

🫡

[@Jh-us2kq]

the production quality of this video is freaking insane man i felt like i was watching a well made movie keep up the good work

[@CheeseTurbulence]

Thank you! Glad it comes across as such 😅

[@Leonardo-wn2fp]

Another insane video. It's just fantastic to get such great cinematography and a ton of infos on custom keyboards. You're gold man! I truly enjoy the stuff you put out and appreciate every vid!

[@CheeseTurbulence]

Thank you so much again! 🙇‍♂️🙇‍♂️🙇‍♂️ It’s very appreciated, glad you are enjoying the videos 🙂

[@joseph3164]

Always a fan of your production quality! Thanks for your analysis and videos.

[@CheeseTurbulence]

Always thanks for watching! 🙂

[@kouhaiii3182]

18:33 I was about to comment about that haha i don't know if i liked your video more or Avi's, but I do know that I now have my own answer to the question

[@ImOnMy116]

This is a fantastic video, really really enjoyed the content! The car suspension analogy to the mounting styles was fantastic, I will be using that one myself in the future. I think Shoobs got me initially very interested in the flexy keyboards (which I still very much so enjoy), but I also really enjoy my much more stiff Mode Sonnet top mount. Preference and variety are huge in this hobby.

[@CheeseTurbulence]

Thanks! Glad it made sense to someone 😅

[@Liamspielt05]

Very good video you deserved more subscribers. I can really see the effort that went into this Video

[@CheeseTurbulence]

Thank you! 🙇

[@jonathangapay1724]

This was a pleasure to watch. And your take on premium vs budget also applies to many things, like watches.

[@CheeseTurbulence]

Thank you so much! 🙂

[@J7T800]

I still remember someone's words about the true value of a product, but I forgot who it came from. They said, "Cost doesn't always equate to value, because value is a divided concept."

[@mikeoleksa]

Nice job with this video. Especially the switch up of the sound profiles.

[@CheeseTurbulence]

Thank you! 🙂

[@lawbinson]

I have pricier metal keyboards, but I keep coming back to my cheaper plastic boards - the Kara, Praxis IM, and HHKB Hybrid. There’s something about them that I just love.

[@Guackmonster]

Damn you got me with the switcheroo - great video as always!

[@CheeseTurbulence]

😅 Thanks! Good to know that it worked 😛

[@Leonardo-wn2fp]

Damn!! The switcheroo was a great move! Maybe you should try that more often, because the bias we all probably have immediatly kicked in!

[@CheeseTurbulence]

Thank you! 😅 Glad the experiment worked on some 🙂

[@valervan]

Love the production and the topic of the video 💪. I have to say tho that the audio for keyboard comparison sounded really strange and echoey. To the ones who are thinking between qk65 and link 65, as a link owner, i tried both the qk65 and link 65 back to back with same switches, foams and plates. Usually qk sounds deeper whereas link is more projected kind of sound. Might work better for some sound signatures than others, i love the marbly sound it has with Owlab neon or zaku switches. The feel of the link is also much more reactive and springy almost. (Not in terms of flex but feel)

[@CheeseTurbulence]

Thank you! 🙂 and sorry about the sound demo, you're not the only one who said that. I had issues on my last video as well and tried to improve upon it in this one, but not enough as it is evident. Thanks for the feedback though 🙂 I'm gonna try my best to do it right in the next one.

[@valervan]

@@CheeseTurbulence no worries, it's always a battle to make the sound demo sound real without much compression and audio manipulation. 😅 Wishing you best luck to finding the right balance tho 🙏

[@chietopiaasmr]

My favorite board is QK65 and even with that switcheroo, the sound I liked is the QK65’s

[@albertko1]

As a car geek way before entering the mechkey hobby, the car analogy can work... one common complaint about the R35 Nissan GTR is that it's "boring"... it is FILLED with electronics and wickedly fast but so many enthusiast owners move on because they get BORED of the experience. Sure, it's brutally fast and capable, usually more capable than their owners or drivers are "talented." However, the criticism is that they lack "feeling"... and meanwhile I know taller guys that twist themselves into a pretzel so they can drive a Lotus Exige/Elise on the track. Heck, I know some REALLY big guys that cram themselves into a Miata every race weekend because they love the experience. I'm still relatively new to the hobby and still waiting on my first midrange group buys from MyKeyClub and QK. I have been lucky enough to be able to try some higher end boards at physical keyboard stores. People in the hobby say it's all about "preference" and it totally is... and part of preference is perceived value. I KNOW that certain materials are going to be much more expensive to produce a board with, but if I don't prefer that choice or the qualities that come with that choice, then there's no value for me there even if I have more than enough money to choose the more expensive board. However, if there is a board that has the qualities I want at a very affordable (to me) price, then that's extra value... but if it's at a higher price then it's about my means to make that choice that becomes the value proposition. Is the choice that I prefer valuable enough for that extra cash? Will that experience be worth to you? Not everyone that can afford a Porsche drives one.

[@acolossalsquid]

6'2" 290 lb Miata guy here, you're 100% on point. My other car is a manual and highly tuned Audi S4 that's near 600 hp, it's absolutely brutal and of course it's fun to drive, but it doesn't compare to my 225 hp Miata.

[@JustSomeGuy009]

I would instead point you to the world of classic cars instead. It's IMO are far more accurate analogy. Barret-Jackson auctions and the like. The perceived "quality" comes from limited availability and perception of being "sought after", at least in the small group that are into the hobby. Those are the things they promote. Not the materials and advanced features. In fact, you get LESS of those in your 2-million-dollar 1930's Mercedes Benz. Most people would laugh at you for buying something like that when you can get a far BETTER car for 30k or a modern Mercedes. It's not actually QUALITY you are paying for.

[@bakeraus]

There is still premium but just a shrinking middle ground. Corners have to be cut to make a cheaper board and the design also suffers at the expense of the budget. The prebuilt market is looking even better days with brands like Nuphy, Logitech ranges etc remember just buy what you can afford and enjoy what you have.

[@dinosquad5521]

This is a decent video, but my guy, those sound tests do not do either board justice. I physically recoiled when I heard them.

[@Nightingale-qq6fp]

I own a Qk65 and can agree it should not sound like that.

[@CheeseTurbulence]

Sorry about that, you're not the only one who said that. I had issues on my last video as well and tried to improve upon it in this one, but not enough as it is evident. Thanks for the feedback though 🙂 I'm gonna try my best to do it right in the next one.

[@MrSkullhead0]

I have had the privilege 2 comparable boards for others, The Keychron TKL Vs the Geon Frog. Both are very nice. But you can tell the Frog had a bit more level of care when it comes to anodization and quality machining. The price jump could be considered diminishing returns. But when both sits on your desk, people stop to ask you what you have on your desk more if it’s the frog vs the Keychron.

[@qwertykeys2119]

diminishing return is such an underrated essential term!

[@scattermish]

This video was thoroughly entertaining 😊

[@CheeseTurbulence]

Thank you! 🙂

[@leonardoc.1584]

Man I always watching your videos. Your style is just very unique that I enjoy a lot. Also have you thought of reviewing the Wooting 60HE?

[@CheeseTurbulence]

Thank you! 😄 and yes I have thought of it but, so far have not pulled the trigger yet. Maybe I'll get to it at some point 🙂

[@negative_1ne976]

Great video! Also i realized why i like your videos so much, obvs the content and the production quality is crazy good it seems like im in this whole experience with you but for me whats even better than that is your commentary. The main thing about your videos vs other videos by tech is your speech. The way you talk is inscpector/ detective talk. Its that feeling of all your thoughts happening and your train of thought flowing and when you speak its like we are watching through your eyes but with your mind. Nevertheless, thats the end of statement good fucking video. p.s. are you going to cover the nomad[e] from work louder?

[@CheeseTurbulence]

Thank you so much! That really means a lot 🙂 p.s. yes, I've placed my order right at the start of the Kickstarter campaign, hope to be among the first wave to receive it 😅

[@negative_1ne976]

@@CheeseTurbulence I placed my order too but im just a struggling college student so when I get it im going to be biased because of how much i paid. But i need your honest opinion so I know how biased I am 😅

[@f.m.f962]

I just wanted to say... I appreciate the clicky showcase section in the last part

[@G-tour]

As always great commentary and editing, a pleasure to watch.

[@CheeseTurbulence]

Thank you! 🙇

[@jammies701]

Slight boost to my confidence knowing that I picked out the one I thought sounded better regardless of the board, even after the switcheroo

[@che-weihsieh975]

Cheese guy: I pulled a little sneaky on ya.

[@Malficion]

"That QK65 sounds violent!" Oh... That's why.

[@spytron]

I found your channel rather recently and kinda binged all your videos, the production quality is always just great, and your take on things rather reflected. Also loved the synthwave themed keycaps. A question about NuPhy keyboards, I wanted to order a Halo75 but realised in the checkout, they don't ship to switzerland. How did you obtain your NuPhy boards?

[@CheeseTurbulence]

First of all, thanks for all the kind words! 🙂 Regarding shipping, they actually used to ship to Switzerland but have stopped now (don’t know why). But if you really wanna get one of their boards you could use a forwarding address like myus.com/? and ship it there. Keep in mind though that this will end up in more shipping fees and don’t forget the import fees as well. I think at that price point you’re gonna find better boards on sone of the EU custom keyboard vendors like keygem.com

[@spytron]

@@CheeseTurbulence Thank you for the valuable information. I just checked, and it seems like they added Switzerland as a shipping option again. So either you wrote them, or it is a crazy coincidence. Thanks again and I wish you a good rest of the week.

[@CheeseTurbulence]

Oh that's great news! Good to know, thanks! 🙂

[@xaviertaylor759]

Very balanced and sensible views here and answers one of my main questions. Thanks. Another area of interest to me is ISO esp UK keyboards. Most I see are ANSI. Does one just need the correct PCB and "any" case etc will do or is it more complicated?

[@CheeseTurbulence]

Thank you! 🙂 Regarding the layout, I believe so. When you see group buys, there are sometimes ISO/ANSI options and they are secondary, the case doesn't change or I haven't seen it do. But best to double check when you make your purchase. If you have the case already, I think finding an ISO PCB "should" work, that being said, I can't guarantee that.

[@nt4608]

I love the production quality and how you tried to touch on both spectrums of keyboards. Geist is relatively new into the keyboard hobby and by no means sound premium at all(unfortunately). Throughout the years, there have only been a few boards that can achieve "premium acoustics" unfortunately they all come at premium price. But they all sound clean and full without chalky/puffy and hollow sounds be it a clack or thock build. Keycult(s), unikorn/kohaku, Mr Suit, F1-8x, Mersi, moontower v2, mode sonnet, to name a few.

[@CheeseTurbulence]

Thank you so much! 🙂 I'm very intrigued by that list of boards of yours, I unfortunately never had the chance to try out any of those. The Sonnet is one that I always had an eye on but never pulled the trigger so far.

[@nt4608]

@CheeseTurbulence sonnet will be the best bang for buck in terms of acoustics. I've had many boards and tried many, "sound preference" only goes till a certain point afa budget is concerned. Past that point I can't deny high-end sounds and use the phrase "sound is subjective and a personal preference" anymore. If you lean more toward a marbly sound, the Shelby and Mr Suit are top choices. clean and full sounding without the puffy/chaffy sounds.

[@CheeseTurbulence]

Thanks again for the insight 🙂 I love the looks of the Sonnet, good to know about the sound too, maybe one day I'll pull the trigger 😅 The other boards are probably a little out of reach at the moment 🫣

[@jivermesilver9925]

I have a 2 PC setup, I need a good keyboard with wireless, wire and bluetooth if possible. and that switches between these setups QUICKLY. How can I look into this when the good keyboards out there don't seem to have any of these features. Nuphy is probably the only one I see right now, I would love to find a video on different keyboards that offer these features.

[@jinrinako]

may i know what is that keycap you use on the qk75 10:36 ?

[@CheeseTurbulence]

Those are the "Lavender" keycaps you could get with the QK75 during their initial GB: qwertykeys.notion.site/QK75-6e940cbf7ce54f2b825207db41f84b9e? I don't think that they are selling these individually though 😔

[@silentKeys20]

Having boards of both sides of the spectrum: QK65/60 and the TGR Tomo SE, I would say that the difference in "quality" really isn't linear to what the price indicates. No, the TGR's really isn't three times better than the QK's, but the subtle design choices in the TGR is what makes it different. Some people would say the QK boards are "bland and characterless", while the TGR boards have more character in them. This has been somewhat addressed with the more recent QK boards such as the QK80 and the QK100, which have more intentional design choices as opposed to just checklist features. At the end of the day, I'm glad both ends of the spectrum exists because they both influence each other. Premium boards make entry/budget boards better while budget boards force the high end boards to push more unique design and ideas. Saying budget boards are bad and premium boards are overpriced is just pointless, because at the end of the day we all want the quality of all boards across the hobby to increase.

[@CheeseTurbulence]

Very well put 🙂

[@JustSomeGuy009]

Some would say the TGR board is ugly and characterless while the QK is simple and elegant. None of that equals "quality". They are design choices. It's like trying to argue one style of art or architecture is "better" quality. It's not an argument. The quality is ultimately the same as they are made of the same materials. What you call premium (and by extension refer to as quality) is exclusivity of a product that is "perceived" as being sought after or highly demanded, typically fueled by content creators. With a small dash of aesthetic choices around design (which in most cases aren't even visible while it sits on your desk).

[@ternedo6074]

In my humble opinion, I think they sound almost exactly the same because of the foams inside

[@ryelo5448]

One thing you can only get woth premium from what i seen is character specfic boards, like a gundam keyboard or anime or kpop, etc.

[@bosenngantor9160]

choosing Link65 as a representative of the premium side of keyboard is kinda not a good idea to begin with. This board actually a bit overpriced, and the sound is not impressive for the price...I think "premium still mean quality" for so many successfull names. But I understand the idea of Qk65 vs Link65, it looks so similar each other for lots of things while beiing priced so defferently, OwLab was being too optimistic with LInk65 experiment

[@CheeseTurbulence]

Yeah I was a bit hesitant to compare these two at first. The Link65 is not the best representation for the upper end of "premium", but I thought its unique features (regardless of if they're good or not) made it a interesting sparring partner to the QK65. Maybe a bit unfair to use it in this context, very valid point 🙂

[@z4k1_zaki65]

I personally think that the custom keyboard hobby is like art, specifically like painting. There are cheap painting that cost less than $200 and there are that cost in the tenth of thousands. Many of us would just be happy with the $200 painting because it's good enough, but there're people who would enjoy those expensive ones because they appreciate the details, values, background and the painter themselves.

[@CheeseTurbulence]

Very well said, thank you 🙂

[@igavinwood]

Nice vid and good arguement. Most of the products we see these days are through the screen as it's online retail. The actual size, tactile, sound etc are all hidden. Hell I've bought products online and when I've recieved them the size, feel and overall quality are all wrong. They have to go back and then the process is repeated in the hope that the next one is better. Reviewers are so important because of that. It's the main reason I've subscribed, as I pick you as a reviewer I trust. However I personally couldn't live with the noise of any kb option in this vid. I've spent too many years on a laptop to enjoy the constant clacking of noisey keyboards. For me it would need to be low profile and as close to silent as possible. I also love my numpad. It's so damn useful. Though I'd like to see it as a seperate part that can be used on either side and programmed for macros.

[@CheeseTurbulence]

Thank you so much! 🙇

[@703elee]

nothing in life is a linear scale re price. In any industry, the item that costs 2x more is rarely 2x better. It's incrementally better but those increments hold marginal value. It's a pretty basic economic principle

[@francois.m]

Regardless of the price you pay, I'm all for a proper carry case rather than a fancy unboxing experience that'll either end up in the closet or trash.

[@rednil8242]

idk why is here so much reverberations in the sound tests? it sounds really strange

[@CheeseTurbulence]

Yeah sorry about that, you're not the only one who noticed. I had issues on my last video as well and tried to improve upon it in this one, but not enough as it is evident. Thanks for the feedback though 🙂 I'm gonna try my best to do it right in the next one.

[@IronCan88]

Hi, while the quality difference may not be super obvious, link65 quality and finish is definitely better than qk65. Also the options for link 65 is better as well. The sushi roll PCB is also unique (ie you won't find it elsewhere). So it's really not an apple to apple comparison.

[@hoang9802]

my link65 is a great paperweight

[@CheeseTurbulence]

🙈

[@EBSPITSBARZ]

Ink 65 Is one million times better than stupid qk65