Why You Might Have Been a Model In The 60s

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[@jav7899]

Modern beauty standards are basically handsome squidward

[@belindawilliams4915]

This comment should be 📌ed.

[@EmyN]

Yes 😂

[@BlueBlossomsBlues]

You said it better than Quoves with only 2 words!

[@amer6706]

Agreed

[@judygal33]

😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂 this is the best comment I think I’ve ever seen

[@lapharmacie98]

I think if there’s one face in the world that transcends time and its beauty standards, it has to be Monica Bellucci

[@INTJ_5w4]

She has classic facial features. In other words, classic features will always be beautiful. And yes, Monica Bellucci is outstandingly gorgeous.

[@JollyWanker]

Monica Belucci or Penelope Cruz. God went off when he created these women 😩

[@alexare6655]

​@@JollyWankerlmao at penrlope cruz. Bro thats an ostrich. Try winona ryder instead.

[@JollyWanker]

@@alexare6655 are you fucking high? I bet you're a neet basement dweller who called Margot Robbie "mid" on twitter while your ass is 2/10 on a good day. Calling Penelope an ostrich, man you trippin

[@The_Naughty_Kitten]

She's okay , but it's Lana Turner. She was breathtakingly Beautiful!

[@theHappyTrucker]

Having classic features myself, I can see why I never feel "hot" in the modern trends. I know classic can be very beautiful and elegent, but when you're young you just want to be the "hot" girl.

[@tula1433]

I get stuck in the “hot” girl mold. It could be my make up and coloring (ice blue eyes dark hair) but people always seem to treat you like a porn star/sexy/seductive. It’s fun sometimes but it gets exhausting and sometimes people don’t take you seriously. I see these girls who can wear crop tops and look innocent like a Taylor swift type and I wish I could do that. I look like a hooker in the modern clothes and styles! Lol! TLDR-I wish I could look more innocent!

[@elizabethhopkins7582]

As you age you will appreciate this gift more. You will age better than them.

[@briellewools]

I’m the same way, I have a lot of features that are similar to Marilyn Monroe just with a wider face overall, and am upper lip that is both shorter height and width wise to my lower lip and my lower lip looks very pouty - ie my lips are waaaay off in comparison to modern beauty standards lol they look very infantile, if i had to put a word to it. When i compare myself to modern beauties i hardly see any resemblances at all, but I feel like I could fit in relatively well with classic beauty standards. It’s hard to figure out how to do makeup for my features because they all go off of modern beauty trends, I just overall feel out of place in todays time, at least visually. I’m not sure what the point of this comment is, other than just saying i understand how you feel and you’re not alone in it lol

[@katharinaheckmann4962]

I feel you…

[@katy9569]

This video is very insightful! A lot of people don't realize that every generation has a different perception of beauty. There was even a "classic" beauty standard in the 1950's, it would be more reflective of the early 1900's. There's always something that is "classic" no matter what time you're in.

[@JalenJaguar]

The way our perception of beauty can shift in certain areas, but remain timeless in others is very interesting… like why are some features “classic” while others are more trendy

[@SilverGreenEyes18]

Because it was never a trend for women to look like men except now, it's an agenda that goes along with feminism

[@sheluvssmokedupeyes1]

One thing that I can say about Marilyn Monroe had had plaster plastic surgery her chin and jaw area and she was slightly just figured so I think that’s why the contour was added on her to her make up routine

[@bambiisbonkers]

it’s going to be SO interesting when the big lips trend inevitably swings back in the opposite direction

[@loboestepario2424]

Lots of corrective plastic surgery to take in those deflated lips.

[@Aaron-kj8dv]

And all of those women who used filler have lips that look like deflated tires

[@caramelle86]

What about for people of color who naturally have big lips??

[@Yellow.1844]

​@@caramelle86 tf u want? Its not an equality olympics

[@Bisexualconfusion]

I hope not. Full lips, not overfilled ones, just normal full are féminine and alluring

[@leni0210]

Anya Taylor Joy played the main character in Queen's Gambit, which was set in the 1950's and 60's and she did not look out of place at all. It's a matter of style and not so much of facial features. Of course you wouldn't cast an instagram model with a BBL and lip fillers for such a role, but almost all of the actresses shown in the video as examples for "modern faces" would look perfectly fine in a 50s or 60s movie when styled accordingly. Angelina Jolie for example meets way more "modern" beauty standards than classic but was cast for movies set in those eras as well.

[@stonecake313]

Yes, I think ppl forget that there were just as many ppl in the past with “weird” or striking features as we have today. They may not have been sought after for modelling, but they still existed in that time period and obviously weren’t freakishly out of place or anything. Ppl act like there was no strikingly different facial variances until the 1980’s. Modern day actors (who haven’t undergone uncanny surgeries) would still fit in with time appropriate styling

[@Y-I-N-A]

I think it’s also good to note that the role anna played was not that of a “most beautiful” by that time’s standard. She probably wouldn’t be casted for the role of super star in the 1950s, but she played the role of an orphaned, strange and obsessive girl in the 1950s wonderfully

[@idonotresidehere.5709]

ofc but the beauty standards were different, so we're more used to seeing certain faces from certain eras and other faces now (not bc there were more but bc they fit the beauty standard so we'd be exposed to more). i think thats what this vid is about.

[@AmyJLiang]

Angie also doesn’t have the most modern looking face. She has larger eyes and thinner arched brows. Definitely a more balanced mix than the ultra modern faces.

[@SilverGreenEyes18]

She has a universally weird face that has always existed. Doesn't make her the standard of beauty in any decade though

[@drewmichaels3808]

These aren't 'beauty standards', they're styles and fads. Beauty is more intrinsic, such as facial symmetry.

[@samuelbarnett6225]

It's hard to imagine the beauty standards changing in another half century from now. But I guess I'll see in another 50 years from now.

[@Khush-iy3tv]

There is NOTHING wrong with having a MODERN OR CLASSICAL face!! You are beautiful either way. (Saying this for people worrying about not having a classical face)

[@sheluvssmokedupeyes1]

I’m a black girl in my face would not be considered a classical face and it wouldn’t be considered a modern face either so I’m just happy with how I look and who I am as a person rather than whether I have a certain kind of facial dimension, that people consider attractive

[@Florianuus]

Classical face is superior

[@Khush-iy3tv]

@@Florianuus nope Nothing is more superior or inferior than the other

[@Florianuus]

@@Khush-iy3tv classical face has more value long term. The appeal of the modern face is lessening as this yearning for the vintage past is increasing

[@Alannameyers]

I don’t know whether my face is modern, classical, etc. I just know it’s ugly 😂

[@moniqrupley6019]

Thank you for using Lynda Carter as an example. I have always thought she is the epitome of beauty.

[@alisha1377]

I have a weird face. Not very modern, not very classic, very asymmetrical… Honestly I’m okay with that. 😊

[@spookywitch0x0]

Same here ✋️ 😊 and im okay with that too we are all unique and ourselves it's a good thing.

[@dd-uf9nw]

One thing for sure is that I have a face.

[@drwayne_carter9115]

Modern look = sharper, more masculine Classic look = softer, more feminine

[@peanut422hb]

That's because they are all transgenders.

[@Bisexualconfusion]

Not at all

[@SilverGreenEyes18]

​​@@Bisexualconfusionit has been noted many times that it's actually the case. Don't you see the wide, square jaw that's currently in on women,big brows, muscles etc

[@AlexA-bn2wb]

Modern look is sharper because of plastic surgery

[@SilverGreenEyes18]

@@AlexA-bn2wb i'd say models they choose in modern era have been more masculine than before even without plastic surgery. They choose women with squarest jaws they can find, most hunter eyes, thickest brows etc

[@CrimsonUniverse22]

No wonder Alain Delon’s looks is so beloved even today. His beauty fits both classic and even modern standards. Young Alain could be transported to 2023 and still be thirsted over.

[@sarahfranco6802]

Ye

[@pavlal.4552]

I think make up and hairstyle plays a huge role in this.

[@missxelocin]

I’m going by to need an analysis on high visual weight vs low visual weight real quick. Only Qoves can explain concepts to me that make sense.

[@ab-gail]

I’m interested to see this one! I’ve been watching a lot of older movies lately.

[@justbeingme9589]

Very informative video. You break down the differences really well. Quick SN you showed Halle Bailey not Halle Berry in the video though,

[@williamjohnson3093]

Can you do one on classic vs modern features for us males? Have standards changed as much for us?

[@SilverGreenEyes18]

Classic men were masculine gentlemen. Modern men are metrosexual pretty boys that ooze insecurity and consumerism.

[@zamasublack7024]

He did something similar in the past

[@Swan584]

Classic: Harmonious face. Modern: handsome squidward, buccal fat removal

[@5655nasir]

@@Swan584Yep, i have a very harmonious face but i dont even stand out that much.

[@moonelay4963]

Greetings to your team! Thank you for the video, I hope that you will make a video about androgynous facial features in girls and boys, especially interested in the medical and historical side of the issue - what contributes to the formation of such features

[@sirsnickers8586]

keep up the good video man you deserve more views

[@gailainsley6939]

Wow. This was soo good 😊🙌

[@Scarletlovesteucer]

This was a nice video and well explained. QOVES I was wondering if you could talk about lily chee has such a unique face imo idk but she’s one of the most beautiful people ive ever seen

[@miksapntamter5418]

I agree I love her ❤

[@tylerdurden6352]

I got the "ugly" face 🥳🥳

[@skyekh.9836]

Amen to that 😭😂🙏🏻

[@tommyobama7811]

Lmao same.

[@mirabella2154]

Celebrate your face. It's not ugly. 💃🏻

[@Li.b.3602]

Me too 🎉

[@Noah-nv8pv]

Harmony is timeless

[@sintia12c]

People often say that I have a timless face and now thanks to this I know why.

[@Aaron-kj8dv]

Some of those icons look almost like they're cut out of marble. I remember seeing Marlon Brando and going oh my god that's a handsome man (before seeing his old movies I only knew him from Godfather). I think there's some current actors who could've fit right in in the 60's like Chris Hemsworth and Hugh Jackman. For women the obvious person is Monica Belluci and I think Heather Graham would be another.

[@mirabella2154]

Comparing Chris Hemsworth and Hugh Jackman to Marlon Brando.....🤣🤣🤣🤦🏻‍♀️

[@Aaron-kj8dv]

​@mirabella2154 I don't get it, what's the ridiculous part?

[@SRBOMBONICA86]

​@@Aaron-kj8dvyour comparison is insane ,Marlon is beyond superior and Heather Graham with Belucci???you are crazy 🤣

[@Aaron-kj8dv]

​@SRBOMBONICA86 weird you think I'm comparing them to each other. I'm saying these are people who could've been actors 50+ years ago and fit right in.

[@SilverGreenEyes18]

Todays Hollywood hates masculinity and class with passion

[@mia_djojowasito_malik]

lol i literally just got cast to play an influencer and i've always thought “IG model” is last thing i look like. my castmates did comment, though, that i have the face that can elicit laughs (the project is a dark comedy) so maybe that's why i got cast? this is probably going to sound cocky AF, but at this point in history, i'm just happy to not look like everybody else even if i don't fit the beauty standards. uniqueness is gone. everybody looks like everybody on IG, and it's dystopian scary. the stuff of horror-thrillers like “Single White Female” (1992) and “Us” (2019) are normalised now lol.

[@tahsina.c]

I got cast as a fucking alien so I have no idea, acting is a weird profession I tell ya

[@BigV24]

I’ve got a classic face, more harmonious than striking so it makes sense. But I do have modern eyes and lips.

[@chrisandrew6633]

These videos are so fast, I feel like I need to watch them at half speed.

[@MoXXXi]

I'm considered ugly in both eras 😂

[@Dorafran86]

My ugliness is time-resisting. I'd be ugly no matter of the epoque 😂

[@ssam1820]

It's actually yin vs yang features back then they liked very soft and yin features vs today they love hard yang sharp features 😮 just different type of beauty

[@asturiasceltic3183]

Classic goes back to Grecian aesthetics and means oval face, lond narrow straight nose, small mouth, high cheekbones, large round hooded eyes

[@amer6706]

I’m glad you mentioned Kate Ross. Quoves videos aren’t good to watch for your insecurities but I always thought my squarish face and jawline looked kind of masculine. My jaw looks just like Kates. I didn’t know that was actually considered attractive, I thought people wanted the more narrow type.

[@truongsinh9955]

Regardless whether which face looks better, I imagine the "classic" facial structure would age a lot better than the "modern facial structure, considering the bony, angular, sharp feature already makes a young person look more mature than their real age. The older one gets, those striking features would only get even more pronounced and make you look older than you are.

[@chelseawoodall3361]

This seems to be true for me so far. People still think I’m in my early 20s (sometimes teens 😮) when I’m actually mid 30s. I have an oval and fairly soft/feminine face shape. I had objectively “chubby” cheeks as a kid which I really disliked then. Now even as they’ve slimmed I still look youthful! Sad thing is all these people getting buccal fat removal to follow trends are going to look old and haggered by the time they hit 40…

[@truongsinh9955]

@@chelseawoodall3361 Yea my mom pretty much has the same features as yours. In her late 50s but people say she looks 40s. I agree with the buccal fat removal, well, you win some you lose some.

[@user-ue2ck5gm8w]

A lot of people with defined jawlines look younger than they actually are

[@truongsinh9955]

@@user-ue2ck5gm8w Yea I agree that jawline is the definitive feature to appear young, but I was referring to the mid face, cheekbones. Just imagine a prime youthful face. It would have sharp jawline for sure, but not too sunken and hollow eye area, cheeks, etc.

[@chrystianaw8256]

​@@user-ue2ck5gm8w nope

[@sekarsekar-zf2kt]

Happy new year guys 🎉🎉🎉🎉🍾🍾

[@pournami7779]

Please do a video on what makes chico lachowski look attractive

[@theframedman]

It’s just classic vs plastic dont over complicate it 😅

[@Li.b.3602]

Haha so true 😂

[@The_Naughty_Kitten]

❤

[@khadijazeeshan3995]

I was looking for this comment loool

[@samanthaj2303]

During the old times they got work done too. They'd change their hairline and do stuff to look less racially ambiguous

[@jolielive3]

Ah yes. The supermodel, Kate Ross.

[@Ben-zg8xk]

interesting. always thought alot of actors from past eras would look put of place if they were around today

[@corilia9529]

Classic is called classic because it is timeless , it is endless.

[@AP-ct4me]

can you please do a analysis on simone ashley she has the most unique and beautiful face ive ever seen

[@_loss_]

Me and my buddy noticed how people just looked different in general back in the day. There are some phenotypes that just match certain decades.

[@danaibanga9297]

Is there any chance you could cover both genders for general topics such as these?

[@Ayosubzero]

It’s Kate Moss not Ross. 8:38

[@magicmagic8188]

My ugliness is timeless

[@IhaveaBIGBLACKSWORD]

Bro is the Alain dalon of ugliness.

[@RealTalkWithSSG]

Blake Lively gives off a classical look. Lana Del Rey too.

[@lilinectar4045]

also taylor swift, charlize theron, scarlett johanson.

[@zamar2158]

Classic is true beauty. Modern is what some random fashion house tells the public they must find beautiful or else... Bella hadid is not beautiful, neither is carla delavigne with the bushy eyebrows. Gigi is cute at best. Most of these girls look hard faced or unwell. Classic beauty , no matter the era or the nationality, evokes an emotional and primitive response. Its very rare. You look and you know. The others are merely 'effect'.

[@stonecake313]

1950’s American “Classic” beauty picked out by Hollywood execs isn’t “true beauty” and has not been the standard across all of human history. Ppl with weird, striking features still existed in the past and were still beautiful to everyday ppl. I personally don’t favour that soft classic beauty as much as I do striking “modern” beauty. The men and women with average features are still lovely, but it’s a bit plain.

[@bweb6]

You could make the same point about the Hollywood studio system defining 'classical beauty' though. Bette Davis spoke about how studio executives tried to change her look entirely when she came to Hollywood from the stage because she didn't have a classical look.

[@missmist6144]

I'm definitely classic 😊

[@BitchChill]

It's more of style thing. People facial features aren't changing that much in a short span of time

[@Aaron-kj8dv]

Yeah when they show January Jones it's obvious mainly because of her hairstyle in the photo, maybe not necessarily because of her face type

[@The_Naughty_Kitten]

Classic ❤

[@dukedex5043]

You're looking at olde makeup and hairstyles and coorelating it without knowing, as well as using the association of seeing someone in older movies.

[@mistyvance4544]

I didn't really know what type I had until I remembered an old man years ago would tell me I reminded him of Gina Lollobrigida, especially when I wore my hair a certain way - and I am a Black woman, while Lollo was Italian. Another old man told me that I reminded him of Lola Falana. So I guess I have a Classic face.

[@Ryl3925]

I am trying to love my heavy brow at night go and get a brow lift but it is hard. Because they don't just appear heavy they physically feel heavy and I am constantly putting my hand on my forehead to give me relief when I lift it up. Although I've never in my life received a negative comment about my brows so I do wonder if I am over analyzing myself

[@classicschannel.]

Classic is way better 🤩✨. The modern one is 🤮, no matter how beautiful the modern people look they always still use makeup.

[@tomibally6546]

Can you do face Analysis of Tupac Shakur?

[@margaretm5633]

Interesting video.

[@Aurora146]

Hello Qoves, please can you answer this question that I wonder for a long time now? Are zygomas a very dimorphic feature after puberty? I know high cheekbones are not a masculine feature but wide from what I understand male zygomas tend to be much wider after puberty, am I right?

[@nate2759]

I don’t fit either because I have lips slightly larger than average and a small philtrum naturally.

[@user-rt1sr4fm5m]

I need men's series

[@bweb6]

I noticed Charles Melton in a movie recently and i thought his face was so unusual and beautiful. I love the modern trend of 'striking beauty' that we seem to be getting in print and modelling now.

[@Mukkki]

haha i don't think that he is beautiful at all :D

[@thirstaefortae5057]

He is good looking but whenever I look at him I think of Handsome Squidward 😂

[@helixmoore7636]

I look just like him. Ok I dont.

[@depressingthoughts]

This video made me insecure about my thin lips and hooded eyelids because both are undesirable in both eras. 🥴

[@VeronicaLovesYou22]

Undesirable to who? Why does their opinion matter? Don’t let media and companies make you feel like there’s something wrong with you. Your opinion of yourself should triumph over society’s idea of beauty, YOU have the power not them

[@Palestinewillbefree0006]

Fuck this video it’s not how any real person thinks , you are beautiful babes

[@EmL-kg5gn]

Both these eras are a tiny part of human history, and what really makes people beautiful is that there’s so many different ways we can all look! Just like flowers are beautiful because there’s so many of them and they all have their own beauty. Red roses are beautiful but if they were the only flower we’d miss out on so many other kinds of beauty, and we’d get bored of them and wouldn’t appreciate flowers as much! I’m sure you’re beautiful as you are!!! To me it sounds like the comparison this video encourages makes you feel insecure, like it can for anyone. Your features aren’t to blame and they’re beautiful!! I hope you can avoid these kinds of videos in future

[@bweb6]

I feel a little bit like that about my hooded eyes too. Mainly because as i age, they are getting noticeably heavier and it gives me a somewhat tired look. 🙈

[@depressingthoughts]

@@bweb6 Same

[@IlanaAlazzeh]

What if you’re mixed but a thorough romantic kibbe type?

[@undermoonlight4849]

I have the face of a 90's telenovela antagonista that pushed the FL down the stairs. Is that modern or classic?

[@abortion_worst_CRIME_inHISTORY]

😹😹😹 so funny comment, why don't you have many likes? Lol

[@asturiasceltic3183]

Classic means looking like a renaissance oainting, Greek or Roman statue or those faces in Vatican paintings. Christy Turlington and Pacino are perfect examples.. You think classic started with Hollywood? It started with the Greeks.

[@syraulo1070]

Hopefully Qoves Studio could make a video on why young Leo Dicaprio is so universally attractive

[@GodsOwnPrototype]

I think you meant Classic Modern & GlobalHyperModern

[@RexytheRexy]

If I was beautiful/perceived as beautiful by others, I'd be modern. The most common word others use to describe me is "striking", and my features don't align with conventional or classic standards. My Kibbe bodytype is soft dramatic, and my face matches (I've got a pretty serious case of resting b*tchface). Androgynous, angular and sharp-boned, with strong, dark eyebrows, large(ish) light cyan-grey eyes and a rounded nose and mouth that soften my features.

[@sillycheese301]

I must be old af. Im 17 but i prefer the higher, thinner and arched eyebrows and the classic beauty. I also think i may have classic beauty

[@Bratzmaniac29]

Before Botox and lip filler I was classic but now I’m more on the modern side

[@fixated_]

QOVES can you please do a video on Sophia Loren's look in specific, we need a video on her

[@Me-vn3gz]

would also be a good segway to a video on body hair

[@helixmoore7636]

She was beyond hot

[@glukaise]

alain delon is a timeless standard

[@michaelanthony4750]

Some more time to view your diagrams and photos would be nice. I had to pause a lot. Great video though!

[@guttenaug947]

Today everyone on TV has had at least a nose job and Botox. It’s hard to tell who would be used today as a model if humans stayed natural.

[@jonathank786]

There are plenty of natural models and actors wouldn’t be hard at all

[@guttenaug947]

@@jonathank786 name one

[@jonathank786]

@@guttenaug947 sure 👍 Halle berry, Salma Hayek, Julia Roberts, Gigi Hadid, Brooke shields numerous males I could mention as well that’d actually be easier lol

[@jonathank786]

@@guttenaug947 don’t base your perception of the world off a few celebs you saw on TV 😭😂🤦‍♂️

[@starsmarien4827]

QOVESStudio, can you make a video on why many women find Jeremy Allen attractive, even when he has a recessed and under developed jaw? Thank you.

[@mrmidnight8975]

Can you do video just for alopecia universalis , I see no solution of face changes to rectify that peculiar look (monstrosity )

[@nathalie_desrosiers]

Information is too fast. Are we in a tennis tournament?

[@keremti1]

Can you make a Video about Jack Harlows glow up?

[@leaveitorsinkit242]

People have told me I look like Handsome Squidward, so I’m guessing classic?

[@ztoneed]

Can you do a video on Francisco Lachowski

[@naveen9xn]

What about Jessica rothe features can you make video about it??

[@lacamendry1731]

I have future features.

[@ayayanya]

Damn it, I'd be considered so much prettier some half a century ago😅

[@Ponitypon]

I have downturned eyes and very small chin but idk if i would be classic or modern

[@F.R.F937]

Haters love to trash and insult the Kardashians for the work theyve done on themselves ... meanwhile Monroe's beauty was completely artificial, if she was alive today and in her 20s-30s she would have had so much work done for sure ...

[@helixmoore7636]

Disagree. Whilst she did have a few tweakments. Her early modeling photos showed a healthy facially very attractive young woman.

[@audreyf9092]

She didn’t have even 1/4 of the surgeries they’ve had on their face and bodies. The Kardashians don’t get hate solely for their surgery either.They have no talent and are very superficial.

[@demarcuscousins3161]

Can you guys make a video on Michal Mrazik

[@justapieceofart6291]

I'm like fifty fifty. The modern jawline, but the classic eyebrows

[@thegirlonpointe9866]

I'm often being told I look like a drawing or like an anime/cartoon character. I still dont know if thats a compliment or an insult tbh 💀 like wdym i dont look real

[@omamahesham1920]

Princess Diana please

[@comment3711]

The younger generation does not recognize or have an eye for beauty in faces, fashion, art and design. It actually frightens me.

[@Incityandinforest]

Kibbe is getting more popular

[@blossom_703]

Who's like always both

[@FrancisWilhelmBlank]

Thx for a insightful vid again ...for me it felt for the 1st time to rushed - very rushed through the topic and pictures/ to many pictures? therefore I needed to stop the vid many times and much more than usual with your videos..can't you please slower your pace? Thx for your awesome work.

[@k_235]

Agreed… so much good, interesting info but the pace made it hard to take in, especially when it came to comparing the images.

[@nurakulamy5816]

Same here!

[@barbietingz6464]

Audrey Hepburn fits both classic and modern beauty standards

[@celestialcircledance]

What's a classic girl to do?

[@ravenclawless]

I'm in the classic beauty category, but have had random and creepy encounters with the opposite sex saying I have striking features 😅

[@ryeofoatmeal]

for me the classic face I love from modern age is Lana Del Ray 😄 she's so classic

[@Edabee405]

I think you’re confusing classic style with classic features. Lana has quite exaggerated features (filler duck lips, for example) and while I love her look and find her face interesting and beautiful, she doesn’t have classic features, as Qoves is defining them, at all.

[@helixmoore7636]

But she's had so much surgery

[@chrystianaw8256]

​not really

[@brainstorm.in.a.teacup]

*Kate Moss (not Ross)