Why You Never Rotoscope OTHER PEOPLE'S ANIMATIONS

[@HowardWimshurst]

Don't cut corners - take the time to nail the fundamentals and you will be rewarded! Getting Started in 2D Animation - my new online course teaches you exactly that - www.animatorguild.com/courses.html You can also download my Animators Checklist PDF booklet for free here: www.animatorguild.com/checklist-pdf-predownload.html

[@TyrellW]

lmao nice 13:30 min ad

[@hobby-animation]

I am so inspired ❤️and I myself doing some little work.

[@SapLow]

I never thought about rotoscoping other peoples animations before I watched this video. Thanks for the idea man! This is going to save me so much time!

[@HowardWimshurst]

nooooooo hahaa

[@runbaa9285]

I think when you rotoscope real life movements, it's fine, as at that point, it's basically theoretically the same as motion capture in 3D animation. The animator still has to put in extra touches for the animation to look right and not too realistic.

[@ginogatash4030]

It can also look just straight up realistic, there's a charm to that esthetic. But I think people are mixing rotoscope with Tracing, I get that it's essentially the same process, but rotoscope is a legitimate technique, while Tracing is just the act of stealing.

[@gamingrex2930]

​@@ginogatash4030 Agreed, tracing is drawing shit pixel perfectly. Rotoscoping is drawing over something that vague follows the flow, after that whatever happens is up to how high the animator is.

[@Candy-fd7po]

This reminds me of what happened a few months back with the Playstation animated promo that copied various shots from student films and cartoons, and somehow thought that no one would recognize. This is a very serious problem that even people in the industry have to deal with, so it's best to educate future animators of the consequences of art theft.

[@ginogatash4030]

There were also straight up mainstream films and cartoons from the industry, so it's even more blatant.

[@oxob3000]

This video is important and I'm going to share it.

[@zitathenigerian-amer.mappe6790]

I saw you in your post

[@qvuor69420]

Same

[@arktic3140]

Ok so first hyun, now you? Holy crap!

[@Hyun]

So much respect to you for going back and correcting yourself on a video (you probably spent so many hours to make) just to clarify this subject. The whole topic of tracing anims or "rotoscoping" is very very hard to clearly state what is OK and NOT OK as I do agree that it applies differently to different animators in many different ways where it gets very confusing. Yes, many studios and people do it; some people appreciate it, others will not. There will always be this divide no matter how it's stylized or transformed and it always tends to bring up some controversy or discussion. I think you made the right decision to make this video because even though the things you said in the other video are true, it can just be taken the wrong way too easily for many animators to get themselves into trouble. Just DONT DO IT. It is definitely not worth the benefits it will bring you if you don't know what you're doing. I've seen time and time again where new animators who simply did not know it was a controversial thing, get called out and bullied to the point of quitting animation altogether. Assume that someone will call you out for it (either good or bad) and it has the chance of putting you into a negative light/reputation as an animator. Do it at your own risk and if you have to question yourself about it, just don't do it at all. Keep any rotos privately to yourself for the sake of learning and that is it. Anything you put out to the public will be assumed that it is 100% your own creative work, which sets you up to become a target if you did trace an animation of any kind. Lets all be careful and responsible animators here!

[@seth8888]

I've seen alot of "animators" who rotoscoped alot of other animations that are popular and recognized in the opposite way (praised instead of being critisized), which makes it unfair for other hardworking and underrated animators. Great words Hyun!

[@zlg1388]

I completly understand if you copy someone's work and make it look like its yours thats lame if it isn't copyrighted and if its copyrighted its ilegal, that being said if I rotoscope or trace something (not an animation) and it works...because usally if you rotoscope you have to use a reference as that a reference, if you trace it just look bad,let's say it works just tracing,I don't really see the point why I should care about other people opinion... I gonna giva an example. lets say two persons are in the same point and someone want to walk instead of drive and the other wants to drive...My point is ,I just have to walk because someone decides to walk?Just give me one reason why I should care about what others want to do? Its like some people don't accept photography and video change the way painters and animators can work, you don't want to use it? FINE I don't give a shit. Who the people think they are to tell someone what to do? FFS .You can be proud about your effort ,I can understand that, but I seriously don't give a fucking shit .

[@arktic3140]

Wait, HOW DID YOU END UP HERE?!?!

[@Torrboar]

We understand you 100%. It was really clear what you're trying express. :)

[@anzolomyer4584]

I'm glad I saw the original video. Aww. That's too bad about whatever stink came up. It was a good, informative video. Nothing controversial, all very straightforward and vanilla, lol. Maybe you can make a second KZbin channel called Howerd~~>:)~~Wimsherst where you wear a mask and disguise your voice. And you can dish out TRUE renegade opinions on art and animation without having to worry about it being tied to your name.

[@HowardWimshurst]

Haha thank you. Honestly i think that would feel very liberating

[@re_woke_7036]

P sure if howard's other videos were unfriendly towards beginners then that video wouldn't have been a problem

[@HowardWimshurst]

@@re_woke_7036 true dat

[@Little3Pigs]

I agree you shouldn't rotoscope other people's animation, the same way is not ok to trace other people's work. That being said I think is ok to study other people's work in animation and try to do them yourself, and in doing so learning about the process of other animators, and when you do, stress the fact that is a study. Also when studying someone else's work use it as reference not for tracing, that way I think you learn more as it requeries you more thought process.

[@mynamewasunironicallyyuri973]

lmao why would I rotoscope an animation when I can just sr someone else’s animation and upload it? that’s just extra work, which is of course entirely my own.

[@mildstuff]

XD

[@mobi8046]

Wat does sr means?

[@Aquarica]

I understand why you unlisted it, but I'm glad it's still watchable, there was a lot of good information that helps explain concepts to people who maybe don't quite understand what rotoscoping is used and how to spot it in animation

[@Ari3s20]

Dear Howard. I am an animation student and I honestly believe you didn't say anything wrong in your previous video. You are perfectly capable of expressing yourself in a clear form ( which you did do infact). There may be somone who happened to misunderstand your message, but i can reassure you that you are not accountable for that. You have clearly discouraged any intent to publish plagarized animations several times throughout the video. ( Needless to say, no one with a bit of common sense would ever post plagarized content) Be well and keep up the good content. (also forgive my english)

[@iamcued]

I completely understood what you meant in the original video, but also get why an addendum was made. As a creator striving for innovation, originality/authenticity are extremely important to me, as I take both (obnoxiously) seriously. The thought of using someone else’s rendered work in my process never crosses my mind. I’d like to think that even the consideration would be a serious self-own, buuuut some comments brought up *that* recent plagiarism scandal in the animation industry, reminding me that there actually are shameless individuals out there pretending to be artists. For creators who regularly engage with art communities, it can be easy to assume that everyone else has an equal understanding of basic ethical creative practices. One of those being: using other’s work is *theft* and passing it off as your own is, you guessed it, still theft which is obviously not okay. But, not everyone is aware of that type of stuff, so it’s always helpful to educate people on the subject when it comes up. Appreciate the clarification and honesty!

[@adrianpedraza8612]

I'm not that big into animation I'm more into concept art and illustration and I guess rotoscoping is the same as tracing. Now my take on this is for personal work only... For me is okay to trace when it comes to personal growth. The reason people trace is to maybe familiarize yourself with the subject before trying it out, maybe to practice your hand-eye coordination and all that and I'm guessing some animations rotoscope to study certain elements in the animation maybe how the animator uses keyframes idk like I said I'm not that into animation. If you are going to rotoscope don't post it as yours that's just absurd because it is an obvious theft move you didn't come up with that specific animation. Keep it in your practice folder and if you ever become a pro say it openly that you study from life and some times from other animators but never copy their work.

[@GrowingDownUnder]

it's not theft if you draw it yourself, copying is perfectly fine but stealing isn't. Every artist in the world copies in some form like with reference pictures for example. The rule is if you copy you have to make it different

[@MrMysteryyy]

@@GrowingDownUnder for animation its different because animation isn't simply drawing, the process consists of imagining and constructing the movement. drawing over someone else's animation means you're stealing their job as an animator, and any of the rough work that went into that movement. keep in mind clean up is the last step an animator takes to complete their animation. Copying it would mean you're skipping right to the end. So what howard is saying is its okay to study, but in under no circumstances should you post it as your own, even if its a recreation.

[@GrowingDownUnder]

@@MrMysteryyy bruh you do realize animators just literally copy all the stuff from the manga right? how is that any different?

[@selwal4510]

@@GrowingDownUnder Animation cant copy from Manga because manga are still imiges.. And animation makes them move.. As in animates them...

[@GrowingDownUnder]

@@selwal4510 false, animation is still images too there's just 12+ frames per second. But every video you watch it made from using only still images. But I agree you can't steal manga or still images by animating that's why mastar isn't stealing either and rotoscope isn't stealing if you;re still drawing/tracing everything yourself you still drawing it therefor technically it ain't stealing. Stealing would be downloading an anime and reuploading it

[@ShivamMalik95]

Didn't have to remove that video just added a pinned comment or update the description or maybe re-upload the video with a disclaimer in the beginning itself... Rotoscope is an interesting technique and I wanted to view your thoughts on them but now I just see a corrective video...

[@HowardWimshurst]

go to the bottom of this video's description - i have linked the unlisted video there

[@collateralanimation5254]

@@HowardWimshurst that's a really smart way of keeping the vid accessible, while also keeping misunderstanding to an absolute minimum.

[@lexira1212]

Hi, Howard! The video you uploaded before was something that actually helped me to start thinking about rotoscoping in a different way. But coming from an professional approach to art and having the understanding of original work I was able to understand what you meant by saying what you have said in that video. I am still glad I got to watch it, because it just made me aware that rotoscoping can have an artistic outcome if it is used as a method to convey ones original artistic vision. However, I totally understand your concerns. I also would never rotoscope anything that belongs to someone and publish it as my own work. In my current creative process I was thinking about using it for practice purposes only.But it is true that it is the best way and always the truth to go back to the foundations of everything. Even before I, never felt good in my mind when someone said to me " oh, just rotoscope it" and now it makes sense. For whatever it is, it is worth everything to go all the way.

[@aodoemela]

Lol do you know who rotoscopes other peoples animation. MaStar Media

[@edouardsteeve4973]

We'll mastar don't do that

[@DojoofGain]

yup lol and made career from it

[@Silver01Son]

Got to it before me

[@edouardsteeve4973]

Man I can't believe this

[@re_woke_7036]

Lmaoo was waiting for someone to point that out

[@yen_bm]

thank you for your understanding. I think this clear message, is very important. I appreciate the quote lol

[@soldiergigas14]

This reminds me of an episode of The boondocks where the Riley and Huey are fighting the Hateocracy and somebody made a comparison between the animations from it and Narutro.

[@jerrygraves6531]

They had permission

[@kramenisfalling]

They were actually both based on one of Bruce Lee's fights.

[@soldiergigas14]

@@jerrygraves6531 Ah ok then 👍

[@imhawkz]

5:32 I feel like he was talking to me. I was listening to this while drawing. I was like, wait what.

[@lixx9462]

Alpha lol

[@justsomegirlwithoutamustach]

Mastar Media has left the chat

[@DarkstarArchangel]

That cheating fraud is a KNOWN Tracer.

[@TheLuconic]

I didn't even know what rotoscope is until now. Thanks for the info.

[@artinmotionpictures2081]

Hi Howard! I watched the original video you made, I enjoyed it and thought it was well articulated. While I agree with many of your points in this video, it’s important not to discredit rotoscoping as if it’s not an art form in itself. Many incredible films, such as Waking Life, Scanner Darkly, and more recently Loving Vincent were all designed using rotoscoping and wouldn’t have been nearly as effective if told without. I realise that you are talking more about the plagiarism of work through the use of rotoscoping, as opposed to rotoscoping itself. I agree whole heartily with that… If someone has ripped off another animator's work (whether that be rotoscoping or just coping ideas) then of course that’s a serious issue and shouldn't be taken lightly! As a professional who works in TV and Film and has a Master's in animation, I've used the technique many times as practice to become a better storyteller! It’s also worth noting that literally 1000s of animators use roto techniques for practice and have done for many years (Disney included) Anything from better understanding character movements to testing out visual aesthetics. Saying you shouldn't use it is to assume people are using it for the wrong reasons. Again I do understant the point your making but worry people will assume rotoscoping is a bad thing. The safest approach is to use whatever animation technique suits your story as long as it’s not ripping off anyone else’s work. Keep up the great work 👊🏼 P.S What animation software do you use? 🤭

[@HowardWimshurst]

I agree with you, and if we were in a 1 on 1 conversation, or in a group with only adults / experienced animators I would be saying what I said in the original video. But I am forced to acknowledge that my audience is young, they are beginners and they interpret things in very simple ways. To be honest, from reading the comments on my videos regularly, I have lost faith in their intelligence. That's the honest truth. There are smart and experienced people who can handle nuance, but intermingled with them is beginners who ask very dumb questions. Everyone starts off as a dumb beginner (I did too) - it's not their fault. The problem is that you can cripple your future career during that beginner phase by becoming blacklisted. Maybe I could have made the rules more like: - rotoscoping your own footage = good - rotoscoping other people's animation = bad But I decided to take the hard-line approach of only talking about not rotoscoping other people's animations in this one so there is no nuance whatsoever. It is safer that way. I like the way I currently have it set up, where people can access the original video, but only through this video Bottom line is; I don't want any of my video material to be used in arguments to defend people who plagiarise content. People showing part of my video and saying "there you go - Howard says it is okay to rotoscope so he must mean that I can rotoscope other artist's animations without their permission". You would think that no one could be stupid enough to do that, but you would be surprised. P.S. Software: TVP as primary, AE + PS as support software

[@artinmotionpictures2081]

@@HowardWimshurst I completely understand that approach as I’m sure a lot of people are inspired by your work and want to get into animation because of it! I imagine there are many highly skilled creatives watching who don’t always comment for one reason or another and so they go unseen. I think your approach to art and creative storytelling is a pleasure to watch and I look forward to the next one! ✍️ Was just joking about the software as I noticed so many people asking haha! Thanks for mentioning!

[@sattikbiswas7385]

i would like to say that its really cool that you come up with this follow up video on the previous rotoscope tutorial. as an animator i personally feel, that if you want to challenge yourself with the creativity and make something whats really cool and eye catching, then it should be your original idea, no matter how bad you animate, if you can convey the message, it got the shot.

[@NelsonStJames]

Dude, even greenhorns to animation should know better than to steal. You don't have to be a pro to know that. But you made the right call; a lot of people are simply looking for an excuse.

[@HowardWimshurst]

Yeah i hate talking down to people like they are children but i have to because children watch these

[@HowardWimshurst]

And yes i noticed that on the last video people were using my video as an argument or a license to steal

[@shockairb]

Who actually thought he said it was ok to rotoscope other peoples animations? I didn't get that impression at all.

[@somerandompersonontheinter6109]

ikr

[@mightycahjo4906]

Yeah, stupid af

[@HowardWimshurst]

That's the same reason why it didn't cross my mind to need to say "don't steal" in the first video. but I forgot the age range of people who watch this. When you first get started in animation you truly know nothing about it.

[@mightycahjo4906]

Well, at least u try to fix it

[@RetroFan2.0]

Would the Disney rotoscope like snow white/aristocats with robin hood be considered copyright if the 2 where made by separate companies but with the same physical movements of the characters from each other??? 🤔

[@HowzzART]

Hey I don’t know if you will read this I am a beginner to animation . My question is -So I made an animation using FlipaClip I imported an image Of spider man and I animated him disintegrated ,not the scene in the movie but just an image and I like erase part by part and add the dots to make it look like dust. So if I upload that animation on my channel will I fall into trouble for that Please let me know because i am new to this.

[@MMBStudios_ng]

you sound very real, you are the best, thanks for the clarity.

[@josephlol1545]

You are the best artist teacher

[@s.p.clague2616]

This made me think back and remember rotoscoping something a loooong time ago and luckily I never really put it out there but now I’ve made sure it’s gone. This really made me think about how I animate even if I don’t rotoscope anymore, thank you !

[@yosuhanverdecia]

Man I saw the first video and I'm glad that I did it because for me it was really straight forward I'm not an animator yet and looking forward to become one and your videos had help me a lot, and the message it's always positive from this channel to newcomers and to experience animators, other than that it had been and still is really inspiring to see your videos, and in my humble opinion I think that almost every one who is watching your channel can see the message, and the positivite. Every time a person is talking, things can be take in other way but that depends on the one who is listening and his mind. At that point, can you imagine, teachers can not teach if every time they are teaching the students will try to find double meanings in everything that the teacher is says.

[@AkilahOsa]

I respect the fact that you owned up to a mistake that you made and try to correct it the best that you could. I honestly really liked the first video though, good thing I watched this before I attempted to use this method in my work. 😅

[@SRCreativeStudios]

Good video with a serious point well made. I think it's something that hasn't really been addressed much on youtube so nice one!

[@jemdragons3120]

As I said to the first video - this was very interesting and helpful! Thank you! I'm sorry you couldn't keep that first one public - I know one hell of a lot more effort goes into these than people think and it must've taken some time. Hopefully you can still salvage bits of it or find some other way to use it that doesn't put you and others at risk.

[@artgoku1558]

What if I make a 3d base mesh for animation and rotoscope that is that considered as wrong?

[@cartoonmike1]

I really understand what your talking about. I would learn from other peoples animation.Aaron Blaise is a great example of animation and art. Learn from the greats. Disney did do some rotoscope like the blue fairy in Pinocchio but very minimal animation. The Fleischer Bro. used rotoscope in there animation too. In rotoscoping you don't learn the 12 principals of animation that Disney's nine old men learned. It is just copying movement and that's not animation. Ralph Bakshi made a hole feature useing rotoscope. I never really liked the idea of rotoscoping it's just drawn movement. You will never understand the process of animation unless you do it yourself. Another good example is Don Bluth. I have his DVD's on animation and drawing. Also Aaron Blaise has downloadable tutorials on the process of animation. So if you want to learn animation,rotoscope is not the answer. Trial and error is the only way.

[@Mayru]

My boi YenYen saved the day once again!

[@PeaKaeCee]

Man, I've mixed the ethical definition of rotoscoping and the basic definition for so long I've never thought people would call stealing "rotoscoping". In my head, rotoscoping was always animation created by tracing your own ORIGINAL live action footage; never was tracing other people's footage or animations part of that. I can't believe this needs to be explained to people, but maybe that's the eternal optimist in me. The process to me was always idea->story board->capture ORIGINAL live action footage->trace and animate; it was always a way to get natural looking movement, proportions, and even experimentation, but not a shortcut for beginning animators. I always saw it as an advanced process, but I'm also an older Millennial and never adjusted my personal definition to take into account the proliferation of software to make stealing other people's work an easy process, since my own definition came from a time when I learned rotoscoping was literally painting on film. Fooking hell...

[@joanomari8600]

So I need some guidance, So I technically rotoscoped someone’s animation, but: *I gave credit to the person who made the animation *The main animation was basically a draft so I drew a completely different character model (with hair physics too) *I added impact frames and changed the weapon (from bo staff to sword) *I changed it from the camera moving to only the character moving Must I remove this video from my social media or is it fine? Regardless, I promise that I will not rotoscope any animation moving forward.

[@kaiusashton4341]

OH AWESOME VIDEO btw what animation software do i use that is a joke if you're confused

[@angelalouise9010]

I’d like to highlight that you can get amazing results just by studying video references; see The Red Turtle, an animated film commonly mistaken for using rotoscoping.

[@kurtportes8945]

I just wanted to try out rotoscoping and this got recommended to me lol. Thanks Howard!

[@kevinn_9568]

i have a question what about rotoscoping actual irl things like if i make a video of myself and rotoscope it

[@neo7538]

So basically, the danger outweighs the benefit. It is not worth the risk of doing it, right?

[@HowardWimshurst]

pretty much, yeah

[@haisee1671]

I definitely agree with you, For my opinion, it is ok to retroscope as long as you don't publish it. Take it as a tool for educational purposes. U might get some ideas its like reading a book.

[@MikeyNu]

Can I still rotoscope if I acknowledge the source in the title, video or description? I want to rotoscope a video but I don't want to pass it off as my own work.

[@bossladdyy]

Thanks for this video I sorta thought about rotoscoping other peoples creations but Now I would never rotoscope other peoples videos I would definitely rotoscope and edit myself.

[@ibdavinci362]

I am a beginner (like beginner of beginners) in animation. I'm just even reading about it and then I made some gif from photoshop fbf amimation adout Covid19 prevention precautions posted it then....I had a project from an organization for a short animation video. I accepted it even though I am very very scared of what can happen. So I downloaded Easyposer on android then I posed my characters and I took screenshots of that which I will later use as reference to fill inbetweens. I don't know if thats dumb but thats the only easy way I see myself going through this. I would love to hear from you. By theway I'm using opentooz for this project.

[@michahyu]

Could I rotoscope a choreographer's dancing I found on KZbin? I'm no dancer and I want to try rotoscoping as a beginner in animation. I would credit them in the description!

[@Gemini053]

I'd still ask the chirographer if you could use the video for animation purposes.

[@user-vv5ju3fj1p]

Almost spat out my drink when I saw it was Yenyen's comment.

[@user-xh6ju3pg8c]

Yo! Wazzup! I watched Death Note and I haveade some sweet~xakes at home!! (Wanna eat?) Check my channel I animatexx D

[@light_fos]

@@user-xh6ju3pg8c stop.

[@teodorivan9843]

The message in your last video was 100% clear I'm not particularly interested in animation, my focus is on drawing really but I'd like to try it sometime I was listening to your last vid while drawing the other day and even if my main focus wasn't on the vid I was still able to comprehend what u were saying cause you just made yourself that clear Also, I know u wanted to be sure nobody uses other people's animations by making this vid but I wouldn't have worried so much because of that one guy's comment if I were u Even my 8 year old nephew who knows nothing about animation, knows what copyright is.

[@abrahanrodriguez9003]

People should do it. It is great practice. Just don't claim it as your own. I have seen artist rotoscop old kungfu live action films clips in fight scenes in animation and I'm not sure how that works(maybe they bought the rights). Its okay to use reference it's fine line artist need to watch out for.

[@Gilgamesh631]

At first I thought Rotoscoping was a really cool method of creating better animation, but the thing is, it gets old really quick, since it is truly a different feel from actually seeing someone use their imagination and reference photos to create a moment and to give it life on their own, which is actually far more impressive.

[@Crospic]

When I first started animation in late 2016, I was doing stick figures. I have to admit, I was guilty for rotoscoping Hyun and Jomm's animation frame by frame to get the same effect. I would then upload it online, but then I lost the channel because I forgot my password. And you know what, that was a blessing in disguise. XD

[@cubbleshasreturned6968]

I mean I don't know if I'm missing the point here but I do rotoscope human and animated movements for practice. I think it helps me understand movements and a way a character acts that I can then get inspired by as a mental note for later use THE REAL problem with rotoscoping other people's animation is the same problem with plagiarism. At the end of the day if you do want to rotoscope I think you can do it with anything but when it comes to other people's animation just DON'T post it online and only use it for practice, learning and inspiration

[@HowardWimshurst]

This video is for kids who can't understand complex rules right now but who might one day grow up to be famous artists. For them I recommend that they just don't. You are mature and you understand it well, so no problem.

[@cubbleshasreturned6968]

@@HowardWimshurst thank you! That means alot! I'm still learning and trying to understand my own way when it comes or drawing/ animation but your comment means alot!

[@guillermofraire1575]

Ok so I have a question so if you make an animation but it looks similar to another animation what do you do if you get blacklisted

[@Bohio2D]

richard williams admitted that at the beginning when he started, he copied the animations of his mentors. even when he was at the pro's. he still happened to copy certain animations. It is true that when you market your services, you must avoid duplicating others. because it's theft.

[@scott_3336]

BarToon Animate copying and rotoscoping are completely different things

[@Bohio2D]

@@scott_3336 For me its the same thing.

[@scott_3336]

@@Bohio2D This is a rotoscoped story and it has nothing to do with stealing any art at all. Rotoscoping is an art by itself kzbin.info/www/bejne/rKm1XqKBoNx9gqs, this anime movie is partly rotoscoped as well, here a clip from it. Rotoscoping gives it the feel it has in the end kzbin.info/www/bejne/fp2Qn2SwmJyAd68. I am not saying rotoscoping your art and selling it with my name under it isn't stealing, but copying and rotoscoping are very different things.

[@JG16riffin]

Tbh I watched your previous video on rotoscoping all the way through and I understood the point you were trying to get across - and it is a fair point that even my uni tutors have specified in our tutorials as being okay to do, they taught us last year all about the way the art society uses copying to transform and make something new, as artists we do it all the time without even thinking about it, so the technique of rotoscoping can be justified, as you finely explained in the video - HOWEVER, saying that I didn't wholly agree that it was okay to rotoscope other people's footage or photographs even if you technically get something new. You're not really creating something purely that comes from you, you're just generating the design, so if you wanna get technical, you should only rotoscope something that's PUBLIC DOMAIN or something YOU created yourself. The strange thing is even professionals I've been taught by at university have recently said they create their graphic work through using stock google images, and I questioned this because I always thought as a graphic designer you had to use online free domain images. They argued that it wasn't a problem because they were "creating something totally unrecognisable from the original source". I thought fair enough but I still don't believe ethically it's the right thing to do, particularly if you're getting money out of it and the original source creator is getting zero recognition. If it were me and my source material was being used WITHOUT my permission, I'd feel pretty violated, because that's my hard work down the drain, and who's to say someone in the future feels my work is "standard" because some arsehole decided to recreate that work, using the same unique positions and shapes and didn't reference my name, giving the impression that it could have come from them? In my opinion if someone states that their work is solely their own and then reveals they rotoscoped it from someone else's footage which they didn't pay for or reference, then they are liars! Thank you for clearing things up anyway, even for a person who watched the whole thing I felt it was a little dubious, the message being given, although I could understand your justifications. Bearing in mind you're not the only professional person in the world to be under the impression that copying is justified in art. I try wherever I can to redraw anything I use for reference without tracing, I do it freestyle, or if I do trace I try to use free domain source material or my own. Just to be safe and respectful.

[@codeuojared3498]

Is it ok to rotoscope live action stuff

[@Gemini053]

I think it's okay to rotoscope live action stuff but I think that you should still ask whomever you plan on using said live action stuff from. I also think that it'd be a good idea to but in a copyright thing in the beginning of your video or whatever saying that you won't be making any money from it and that this is purely for entertainment purposes only.

[@nickshats]

I'm glad I got to see the pulled video. It had some interesting points on rotoscoping even tho I don't find this technique useful or satisfying for my personal works. Totally understand where you are coming from when removing the video.

[@Adir155]

So what do you say about mastar media?

[@HowardWimshurst]

the guy is a hack

[@scissorskier3006]

I thought my phone was inverted for a moment

[@skillz_animate]

Media stars has been real quiet since you posted it

[@jadavianjohnson5988]

Is it ok to rotoscope animation and give credit to the person who made the original

[@Gemini053]

I think that you should still slide in a persons DMs and ask if it's okay if you could use their footage. Y'know, just to get extra clarification.

[@guspauline7460]

NOOOO PLEASE, I NEED TO SEE THAT VIDEO AGAIN, IT HAS SOME REALLY GOOD INFORMATION FOR ME RIGHT NOW !!!!!!

[@HowardWimshurst]

it is linked at the bottom of the description

[@PAIN-gx9jr]

Is it okay to rotoscoping a footage to make animation?

[@HowardWimshurst]

watch the video

[@alielsakkout7415]

I have rotoscoped other people's animations, but only to try and study the way they've done it, definitely not to pass it off as my own

[@dcresistance]

Reminds me of the whole Kevin Bao situation where he traced over Avatar, student projects, and a bunch of anime for a Sony Japan commercial

[@x4virom]

I dont like that people see Rotoscoping as "cheating" or "not real animation". (btw im a fine arts student and film & animation) There are a huuuge number of artists that use rotoscoping technique and they all do reaally good and experimental works: Michel Gondry / White Stripes; Fell in love with a girl / 2’30’’ / 2002 Nicolas Provost / Papillon d’amour / 4’ / 2003 Jonathan Hodgson / Feeling my way / 5’30’’ / 1997 Bob Sabiston / Snack and drink / 4’ / 1999 Marc Roels / Concern. 2’ 30’’ / 2000 Dirk Van De Vondel / State of the art / 30’’ / 1987 Robert Breer / Fuji / 1974 Gianluigi Toccafondo / La Coda / 2’ / 1989 Virgil Widrich / Fast film / 14’ / 2003 Zbig Rybczynski / Steps / 14’/ 1989 Jeff Scher/ Ann Arbor film Festival / 40’’ / 1998 Jeff Scher/ Milk of amnesia / 6’ / 1992 Joseph Pierce. Family Portrait / 5’ / 2009 Johannes Timpernagel. Bagatelle I / 1’15’’/ 2011 George Griffin. Head / 10’ / 1975 Kijek &Adamski / We Cut Corners “Pirate’s Life” / 2011 George Dunning / Lucy in the sky with diamonds / 1968 Laboratorium / La risa funesta / 2’30’’ / 2006 Lope Serrano / I love you because / 2’48’’ / 2007 Richard Linklater / A Scanner Darkly / 100’ / 2006 Lope Serrano / Mujeres - L.A./ 3’ / 2010 Marçal Forés / The Cheese / 2’ / 2005 Magali Charrier / 12 sketches on the impossibility of being still / 2010

[@CharismaticGamer]

Is it okay to rotoscope from 2d to 3d (like live action)? Also vise versa, 3d/live action to 2d? Is it okay to make 2d illustrations of songs?

[@doctordino9150]

Is it wrong if I use footage I recorded of myself and rotoscoped it? I’m practicing 2d animation and I just thought it would be easier to learn :(

[@Gemini053]

No, it's YOUR footage, you recorded it, edited it, but songs and whatnot over it. I mean unless you want to take yourself to court.

[@matstephany1714]

lol what animation software should i use i don't even have a drawing tablet i just animate on paper (and my parents don't support me )

[@tiggerishkitty8920]

I just wanna ask can I rotoscope live action movies?

[@HowardWimshurst]

No I wouldn't

[@FHBStudio]

@@HowardWimshurst Is it 'theft' to not use rotoscoping but still use the choreography from cool action movie scenes? I was going to suggest to the OP to rotoscope using 3D modelling so he'd have the choreography and then just change up the camera angles. It'd be nothing like the original in terms of rotoscoping, but it'd be almost the same choreography. Another question is why this exists: zhXA3D5hR_E . Is that theft, or an homage (the latter being an homage I think).

[@HowardWimshurst]

​@@FHBStudio I wouldn't advise copying someone's choreography. I see choreography get copied all the time and i'm like oh look, he's stolen that from _____ again. You can do it and probably won't get sued, but you won't get any respect from me for doing it. Why not bring something new to the table? Change it up! At least combine several sources together. You're not contributing to the artform by reconstructing a scene from a different (and probably worse) camera angle. This kind of thing frustrates me. You won't get any respect from me for doing that.

[@FHBStudio]

@@HowardWimshurst Yeah I was basically arguing devils advocate. With both the video you unlisted and this one I was like "Well duh" and the critique brought up of people with either little time or attention span I had the same reaction. Maybe you can reupload the unlisted video with a preamble/summary at the start.

[@nholmes86]

🤣

[@just.n8534]

Howard I have a very important question and that's if what I'm doing is wrong because I dont want my animation career to end before it start. Right now Im in the storyboard part and everything Im doing is original but I noticed for some parts I have references from a fight because I'm looking for a specific pose or a perspective that I'm looking for. Please if you can respond I'd really appreciate it because I repeat I'm not gonna rotoscope over the frames I was planning on using that singular pose/perspective as a starting point and making it into my own animation but if this Is wrong please let me know.

[@Gemini053]

There's nothing wrong with referencing. And from what I read you aren't rotoscoping anything or anyone elses animation, you've been doing most of the animating and keeping your animation original. I think that if you're gonna use that pose than use it because nobody really owns a pose.

[@pacificustoonmeup]

is referencing poses not tracing also considered as rotoscoping

[@BBoxn]

Hey, rotoscoping looked badass in the movie Wizards.

[@a_creatorsstuff17]

personaly, i consider myself a beguiner, i have about 2 years of experience, but i know how to self judge myself and i know, even if i did improved during all, i only consider that i did actual animation (knowing what i was doing) for the last year, i been animating my own lil animations and tests as well as a little game i been making eager to get stuff done fast and learn, i do have all frames of animation of some games, i did saved vids of animation, but the most i done is see them frame by frame and animate my own thing, even if i heavly reference and maybe copy some stuff, i do it myself, not tracing, and its more to take care on details like anatomy and placements, as i am aware of my dificulties, i heavly reference in a moderate way too, i dont copy it, i see how the shapes are done and do them myself, not the whole thing in the end, it doesnt matter if youre new to it or experienced, its more about the mindset i do it more out of respect than out of legal reasons, and in the end, it allows me to change stuff i would do diferently, and that is called, my identity, aka style asking what program one uses is honestly, pretty dumb as in the end its more about the techniques used, not even ho you draw it, what brush or the classic brush vs line tool debate, its about doing it yourself, be it in paper, flash, flipaclip, pivot, flipnote or even on the sand with a stick (i wouldnt be surprised if someone animated like that somewhere)

[@HowardWimshurst]

Although it is tedious to keep being asked about software, I understand why - when you are starting out in something you know NOTHING - not even the name of a few software and what they do. So it's fine that they ask. But seeing people ask me that just reminded me that I'm not talking to professionals here. I'm mostly talking to people who are brand new to animation so i need to change the script accordingly

[@agustinacp]

A little late for the debate (and I hope I don't screw it up with my english! XD), but I'm currently working on my thesis which includes a rotoscoping and 2D animation. Thus I face the discussion around rotoscoping as "cheating" and came across your videos. It's kind of a shame that something like this needs to be clarified, but that's internet and it's understandable when your audience is conform by begginers. But that aside, I'd like to add a few things about what you express, taking this as debate and not admonishing anything you say. I think it should be obvious that under NO circumstances using other people's animation is okay. But what I'd like to say here is that using an animation as reference would not be rotoscoping. Rotoscoping is not just tracing or coping ANYTHING. Parting from an animation is a constradiction to rotoscoping, because its main characteristic is that the movement comes from a 3D real space, it's about the "touch" of reality it can ADD to an animation. I think this is where the misconception lies the most, but again it's not what it's being discuss here. The important thing is other's people's animation (any animation) are out of the picture, that is NOT rotoscoping. I disagree with you when you say that rotoscoping is a visual effect in the other video and a shortcut here. I think it's an animation technique per se, but that's my opinion and many other's animators and theorists, and it's not what you are discussing here. It's a very complex subject. Although it kind of saddens me that at the end you discourage the exploration of rotoscoping. There are many beautiful films that could not express the same if were animated frame by frame, exactly because the way to conceive movement is different. There are many uses for rotoscoping, when it's used correctly, responsibly wisely, creatively... the tricky part!😆

[@HowardWimshurst]

Well I don't want you to think i'm anti-rotoscoping. There are a lot of really good rotoscope films. Michael Patterson's "the commuter", "Coco the clown" or "Loving Vincent"... I think if you had the position I have, where thousands of animators will take a binary YES/NO answer from whatever nuanced thing you say, you would also caution beginners who don't yet have a sense of what is / isn't copying to hold off from rotoscoping completely until they have spent years in the animation space. Rotoscoping is accessible to complete beginners - it grants them immediate realistic movement: something which takes many years of studying to build up to with animation - but it should be treated as an advanced technique. Beginners in animation are unlikely to even know how to extract the potential of the footage they are working with. It's one thing to indulge in theory, and an entirely different thing to speak face to face with a beginner who might be starting a lifelong career in animation. That career could be killed in its crib if they take the wrong interpretation from my video and say "Howard told me it's okay to rotoscope, so i'm gonna rotoscope my favorite animator". Even if they choose to only rotoscope live-action, they risk becoming locked in to the instant gratification of realistic movement without learning the mechanics behind those movements. To become type-cast as "that animator who can make rotoscopes, as long as they have a source of realistic footage to cling to". I've seen it happen... If they are told not to rotoscope in their first formative years, that gives them a chance to learn the mechanics of movement (12 principles etc) AND get an intuitive grasp on what is off limits so not get burned by our cancel culture we are living in. Experienced animators know what is off limits. They don't need to consult anyone. based on the questions I get asked on a regular basis from first-time animators, I can determine that animators learn this from spending time in art spaces, and they do not all start off with this intuition. You can say it's a shame if you like... in the same way that "it's a shame toddlers are restricted from learning first-hand the wonders of fire and explosives!". It is what it is. I stand by my caterogization of rotoscoping as a visual effect. 1) it requires existing footage (Perhaps the only point I need to make my case) 2) it is a veneer placed over the top of said footage 3) In almost all cases, viewers can recognize the artefacts of the underlying footage 4) There are no animation principles at play at all. The artist does not need to think through the mechanics of motion. which is why Ralph Bakshi was able to hire illustrators with no animation background to rotoscope for his films 5) the potential to integrate rotoscoped footage with 2d animation should not change the categorization of rotoscoping from a visual effect to an animation technique. Otherwise I could overlay lens flare footage, apply colour grading and call these animation techniques. I think that's pretty solid reasoning for it being a visual effect and not an animation technique. I can hardly think of any reasons why it would be an animation technique... Because it was invented by an animator? (Max Fleischer)? Because it involves drawing? (not in every case. a scanner darkly used mostly computer tracking). If you say "it's because the illusion of movement..." - then why have categories separating 2D animation from 3D animation, from VFX from live-action at all? only very weak reasoning... You can take that response to your "many other animators and theorists" 😎😂 It's been years since I wrote my thesis but I remember plenty.

[@agustinacp]

I have some grasp of what is like to be cautions of what you say. I'm not on social media (as it must be obvious haha) but I'm part of the teaching team of the animation course in my university. A teacher's assistant (?) I don't know if that's the right way to call it in english or your country. I still consider myself a begginer, although being on the other side of the classroom I understand you need to be careful of your words. We face this discussion around rotoscoping but the groups are smaller, the course lasts a year so the approach it's completely different. When I made the first comment I made the mistake of not grasping very well your position here in KZbin with so many people asking you questions and taking your words more at heart, so I apologize for that. It's understandable that you need a more black and white position on the matter. I also think you are very good at explaining yourself and teaching, and you didn't say anything wrong in the other video. I think most people did understand what you were expressing. Regarding your opinion of rotoscoping as a visual effect, I think it's as valid as mine being a technique. I know your arguments, I thought the same when I first took the animation course, but in my little experience I came to think different. No one says you can only copy. It's part of the animator job to decide when to move out from the reference and take the liberty of deciding when to make use of the principles and to what degree. For that it's necesary to understand the basics of animation. Of course, parting from live action reference the range of possibilities shortens, that's the tricky part. Just because you can't manipulate motion completely doesn't mean you don't need to think things through. Quite the contrary, and for me that's what makes it a technique, it has its rules, its advantages and disadvantages. The point it's creating something new. It's similar to motion-capture. The process it's not automatic from what the actors do to the final animation. You need animators to actually create it. Besides Bakshi it's not the best example because his decision of rotoscoping LotR was for the cost of production only, not for aesthetics or a creative decision. His approach needed no animators, but animators can do actually whatever they want when it comes to their creations. I never said (and I would never say) "it's because the illusion of movement". That's a terribly lacking definition of animation. That could apply to any kind of film. In the end all of them are just still images that create the illusion of movement when replayed. Thank you for taking the time to respond. I don't think my reasoning it's weak and I actually saw others comment something similar. Maybe just different from yours, but it is how it is. I hope my first comment wasn't offensive or something. I don't think so, after all who the hell am I? Haha 😄 I really just thought it would be interesting to share an opinion.

[@Schuschinus]

Now I imagine every animator except me being in a secret societey, connected to the hive mind of unreasonable, unforgiving, archetypical top hat wearing bosses, crawling the web for the littlest misdeeds and carving the names of those who shall be condemned forever into the walls of their pompous underground base while intoning sinister chants.

[@user-xh6ju3pg8c]

Every animator needs a chance and a girlfriend🤪🤪🤪🤪

[@kenneth9219]

Oh poop I rotoscoped an animation in my channel and now I have to delete it Thank you for sharing your knowledge to us it really helps us new one's in animations :D

[@magus_series]

Haven't you mentioned pro anime creators using the same motions and frames as other pros and calling it inspiration? Like legit frame by frame replica with different characters?

[@elguardallavesdejaal]

I think he said you can do that in order to learn how those pros works and animate. Or at the very much, using them as a point of reference to know how you want your animation to look like. But when you do a complete animation 100% based (and directly copied or rotoscoped) from another artist you are just stealing. In the world of music they have an approach I like "If you copy from one source you are stealing, If you copy from a lot of you are composing". Note that obviously, is better if you can twist the product with your own skills and preferences. Draw inspiration, use references, even from time to time imitate, but never stick 100% to another material or will end up being a copy, plagiarism. I hope you can understand what I wrote, not an english native speaker.

[@magus_series]

@@elguardallavesdejaal oh no not in this vid or the original from this, I mean in a different video. Unfortunately I don't really know animators by name or styles, AND I'm not sure if it was actual rotoscoping or just a great skill to copy. But there were two anime artists, one younger but both big-time pros. The younger one copied a fight sequence shot for shot. I mean I get it and completely understand Howard's point, I was just kinda curious about that particular scenario... I'm sure the younger anime artist did it as an homage and probably cleared it with the older. 🤷🏾‍♂️

[@elguardallavesdejaal]

@@magus_series Oh, well, I suppose that scenario is pretty okay then. In film making at least, reproducing a short scene, or making references, is pretty common. Doing callbacks to another artist can be pretty cool, and if the original creator doesn't have problem with it then one could think everything's okay.

[@MWFreerun]

There was the case of a naruto fight that was identical to a cowboy bebop fight I think. But many animators, me included would agree that thats not ok. It's exactly what howard is talking about. Whereas things like the akira bike slide or the rider kick that pop up again and again are different. They are always different and unique and most importantly an obvious homage to the original.

[@magus_series]

@@MWFreerun yes that's the one, thank you. Do you think that fight was rotoscoped?

[@leanderbrough8517]

Nice vid bro😍

[@leanderbrough8517]

@Random Guy oh shut up, why do you even care. i actually did

[@LunaStafford]

I don’t rotoscope completely? I mean- i make circles and lines to create joints and bones and make my own drawing with my own style on top of that. Does that count?

[@andrewbybee]

Do u teach proper rotoscope in your training

[@HowardWimshurst]

No i teach you how to draw and animate from your imagination which is much more powerful

[@angelzavala5637]

A KZbin video called Combat Gods is definitely rotoscoped in many different anime fight scenes.

[@jasonfanclub4267]

BTW did you ever try Blender's Grease Pencil?

[@b___manzi]

Sorry about the responsibility bro.. big ups for stepping up

[@DexterWhomes]

What if I was to get a character from a series and use it in my own animation style?

[@Gemini053]

It depends on the context.

[@Orphanlast]

I think it's obvious that Plagiarism is against the law. Anyone who thinks "Rotoscoping is legit" means "plagiarize other people work" is an idiot.

[@dieabsolutegluckskuche5174]

Rotoscoping is okay for studying in my opinion. Rotoscope, find the rules and then try do it without the reference.

[@Orphanlast]

@@dieabsolutegluckskuche5174 you can rotoscope live action that's not copy written. Yes you can rotoscope for learning purposes, but not to pass off as your own.

[@dieabsolutegluckskuche5174]

@@Orphanlast I also break down my favourite artists art. But sure I will never ever "sell" it as my own work, I probably will not even publish my training :D.

[@Orphanlast]

@@dieabsolutegluckskuche5174 Well yeah. What I'm saying is this is all basically, common sense. I think that there's some really stupid people out there that think that you need something to be explained to you in order for it to be right and wrong. No, you know what's right. You know what's wrong. You know you wouldn't want your work stolen, so don't steal other people's. You wouldn't mind if someone learned from your work. But you'd be pissed if they stole it.

[@thatoneanimator9712]

Anyone know what rotoscoping is? Tell me plz

[@mobi8046]

Tracing from real life footage and turn them into animation. Found in 1922 iirc. Tracing other people's animation is considered rotoscope too

[@thatoneanimator9712]

Mobi thanks for telling me I got kinda confused for a second😁

[@mangimewhite94]

years ago when i just started out animating, I used to put anime fighting clips side by side with my animation program and would copy each drawing straight ahead. Would that be considered somewhat rotoscoping? or does rotoscope specifically refers to tracing OVER the subject? I found that to be somewhat effective in terms of learning the nuances of action animation, as the frame counts can vary and would be hard for a beginner to even comprehend but in retrospect falls very close to the idea of rotoscoping. I definitely do agree that observation is a key learning factor and I'd probably make the argument that what i did years ago is also somewhat a form of observational drawing/learning.

[@diegocapuccio]

I think that the main problem regards the need of aproval at all cost. I've seen a similar behavior in other fields such as philosophy, education, etc. The cheaters took ideas or phrases without referencing the source, in a way that all the geniuses behind the original ideas can be related to the person who pronounces it. I see this as a big problem regarding the further development as an artist/creator, it's like lying to yourself; and becoming unable to see your limitation and not being able to improve them.

[@Bard-fx3su]

i want to see the original video :(

[@Crospic]

kzbin.info/www/bejne/qIWUpnyEgc1gg5Y

[@Bard-fx3su]

@@Crospic thankyou

[@okaybutwhythough7456]

Is it okay for me to rotoscope other people's animations if I'm just trying to figure out and get the feel for the way something moves so I can apply similar "movement pattern", timing, and certain effects to later use in my own work?

[@user-vv5ju3fj1p]

I believe so. As long as you dont post that practice work as your own. This was my question going in too.

[@okaybutwhythough7456]

@Random Guy Okay But Why Though

[@okaybutwhythough7456]

@Random Guy I'm just gonna use it as practice. It's just easier for me with an example.

[@okaybutwhythough7456]

@Random Guy No I mean learning the fundamentals, trying to understand them, then looking up examples where I think I see them, rotoscope them so I can just get a good view.

[@nenidetic]

I suggest sliding through each frame of someone else's animation and using it separately as a reference (if it's on KZbin, pause the video and you can move by each frame using the , and . key, just like Flash). It won't get you in trouble and can help you learn to draw the frames of your animation completely by yourself.

[@role963]

Senpai !! You R " the Senpai " !!! Keep going On !!

[@SherKhanShani]

You can reupload it removing that part or adding warning signs explaining things and stuff.

[@babytooner2418]

i didn't copy anyone but i made my own version from their concept as a game is it wrong ???? ??

[@jasonfanclub4267]

you can still reupload it - rotoscoping can still be a good technique if you re use your own stuff. If you steal other people's stuff this is against copyright.

[@cindyespindola4946]

Funny enough youtube just second ago recommended me a video of show yourself rotoscoped with pen😅👀

[@aahpoiseeh]

Or you're a troll or you're one of those ppl who don't get his message or watch the full video. In this last case, I can help you out ^^ 7:43 You're welcome :)