Why you should unlock your K Series VTC Gear before installing it!

This video covers the VTC gear's found in Honda's K-series engines. Specifically the K24a & K20a series engines.
Honda's service manuals note that the VTC gear should be unlocked before installing it; however, I was never able to find a reason as to why. This video provides a theory as to why the VTC gear should ALWAYS be unlocked when torquing the gear down onto the cam.
Be sure to always unlock your VTC gear following the steps outlined in the factory service manual. I only took the VTC gear apart to show how it worked and to show why I think it should be unlocked when torquing the gear down. I show how to properly unlock the gear without taking it apart in my VTC gear install video (civic K Swap part 2)

[@e-dod]

Be sure to always unlock your VTC gear following the steps outlined in the factory service manual. I only took the VTC gear apart to show how it worked and to show why I think it should be unlocked when torquing the gear down. I show how to properly unlock the gear without taking it apart around 4:09 of this video: kzbin.info/www/bejne/qnSmhXuvjLuraKM

[@BIGD3NIRO]

Is it possible for you to add the torque spec for the bolts on the cam gear itself?

[@e-dod]

@@BIGD3NIRO Good idea. I tried to find the spec but couldn't since Honda doesn't really recommend you take it apart. I don't think they are that tight but they did have loctite on them. I would just say snug them really good with some blue loctite and you should be good.

[@slackerzsincity8822]

On toyota Corolla you need to unlock cant go back on and its lock and wont turn.

[@Rob-md6ml]

The most overlooked thing ever, nice to see someone addressing this simple but vital method for installing your vtc

[@riccoc.8891]

Very inquisitive, I appreciate the knowledge…

[@yardman0001]

I think you're right on the money with that reasoning.

[@xavier9896]

The new ones come unlocked, and your supposed to lock it after torquing down to prevent free float on start up

[@DOUBLE0SEVUN]

Wish I would’ve seen this video before I installed my :( got everything back on and the engine in the car. Hope nothing goes wrong. I watched so many videos on this and can’t believe no one else mentioned this

[@e-dod]

Some of the other commenters pointed out that unless you torque down the gear by holding the teeth of it you should be fine.

[@DOUBLE0SEVUN]

@@e-dod ok I feel much better now. I didn’t torque it that way I hear the camshaft with a wrench 🔧 Started the car and it crunk right up no issues so far. I feel proud of my work haha

[@e-dod]

@@DOUBLE0SEVUN awesome! always a great feeling when things work the first time around!

[@dalebend2831]

Great info!

[@e-dod]

Thanks for watching!

[@cruizinmax4017]

Thanks man

[@ThePanapower]

Very good

[@averyalexander2303]

Great explanation, I think you are 100% correct! I wish I knew this when I rebuilt my K24A2 a couple years ago before swapping it into my ES1 Civic. I think I got lucky since I put several thousand miles on it since the rebuild using it as my daily driver and it's been totally trouble free. If I have a VTC gear off again I will definitely unlock it before installation. Better safe than sorry!

[@tylhunt]

That's not going to damage it.

[@ddiaz5938]

Good info thanks

[@e-dod]

Glad it was helpful!

[@mattgixxer776]

great content. i was wonderin if you could help me with a question. i have a k24, kpro, phanectrics swap harness. will this setup work with a k20 euro CTR engine harness? i know its a little short but besides that is it just the usual stuff like crank sensor, knock sensor, IAT sensor i think aswell. thanks for any help

[@e-dod]

Is this an Accord Euro R harness? If so I was looking at some images online of that engine and all the sensors look the same as the K24a so really the only question is if the pinout on the ECU connectors is compatible with Hondata/KPRO ECU. Unfortunately, I am unable to find an ECU pinout for the Euro R and I am worried that the Euro R harness might have a pinout similar to the TSX/USDM Accord. Which would mean you would have to repin the ECU connectors on your harness (assuming your KPRO has 02-04 RSX pinout, which I think all of them do?) or get some type of adapter harness like the 05-06 RSX requires for Hondata/KPRO. If you already have the Euro R harness you could test the wires with an OHM meter and figure out the pinout yourself then compare it to the Hondata pinout that is easy to find. If you need help I could make a video on that, however, I think lots of videos might already be available. Might also want to take a look at my engine harness video. Was able to build my K24 swap harness for under $100 using an automatic RSX engine harness from a local pick and pull.

[@TSA507]

The dowel pin on the cam takes all the force when torquing the bolt into the cam, if that dowel were not present then yes the locking pin in VTC would be taking the impact of torquing

[@jazzzsm6546]

I don't see how tightening it would interfere with what position the internal components are as the main cam bolt goes through the centre of the cam and the four bolts is what holds the internal workings in place. And a new variable actuator comes in the unlocked position and thats the way you keep it whilst installing it

[@e-dod]

You may be correct. I'd have to take another look at the gear though cause its been a while. Thanks for your input!

[@jasoncook5307]

That pin may be only partially engaged, cocked slightly and when torqued it could break or jam/gall its bore. If that happed the gear could beat itself to death jumping the chain

[@tylhunt]

How would any of that happen? There should be no force acting on the pin during assembly.

[@mustyali9529]

Your hypothesis seems very logical.

[@e-dod]

Thanks, I think the consensus from discussing with others in the comments is that if you hold the teeth of the gear while tightening the gear you do risk damaging the gear if its locked. But if you tighten the gear by holding the cam itself you should be fine, even if the gear is locked.

[@droid2816]

if i just want to replace the spring on the vtc gear by removin the 4 bolts while still mounted on the engine, does it matter if its in the lock position or not? apparently the spring goes bad inside the vtc on honda's cr-v certain years, and would like to replace it.

[@e-dod]

No, you can just take it apart in either position.

[@RollingRoadEFI]

If I'm understanding correctly, if someone doesn't have access to compressed air they could unlock the VTC gear by removing the pin like you did and manually moving it and reassembling it in the unlocked position. Correct?

[@e-dod]

Yes, I am not recommending it and Honda does not document this method in any manuals but this is completely possible.

[@anthonyr5869]

In the Honda Fit 2015 + it docent mention anything about unlocking it. when installing it it tells you to turn it until it engaged the camshaft pin and then the manual moves on torquing and cam installation. Why is this ???

[@e-dod]

This was a 2004 VTC gear (I should have been more clear about that). I would imagine the 2015 gear is a different design. Interesting that Honda no longer recommends unlocking it, the 2015 gear might not even have that concept of locked & unlocked anymore, I would have to get my hands on one to find out. thanks for sharing!

[@joseislas1299]

I don’t have access to an air compressor would it be ok to take it apart and unlock it that way? I saw you can expand the spring to avoid getting the rattle, that’s why I was going open the gear

[@e-dod]

Do you get the rattle on startup? And yes for expanding the spring you'd have to take it apart. If your carful when you open it up and are sure to put some locktite on the bolts that hold it together you should be fine.

[@joseislas1299]

@@e-dod yes I get the rattle for about 3 seconds then it goes away until I cold start again

[@Just_me1776]

I was wondering if you can purchase that spring maybe in a upgraded form. That would be great if I could eliminate that rattling by only opening up the vtc gear!

[@joseislas1299]

@@Just_me1776 i ended up taking it apart to unlock it then used a pen spring inside the spring inside it already. so far no issues

[@whyOyouTEEuBEEe]

Hey bro love the video, just curious once we take it apart and unlock it do we put it back together with the inside gear spin to the right ? Would like to see the gear put back together so we know we’re putting it on right

[@e-dod]

Hi, I would not recommend taking it apart to unlock it. I only took it apart to show how it worked and to show why I think it should be unlocked when torquing the gear down. You can unlock the gear with compressed air by installing the gear (bolt hand tight) covering all the VTC holes except for one then blowing compressed air in the uncovered hole. Once unlocked you can torque down the bolt then lock the gear and re-install the cam. I show this around 4:09 of this video: kzbin.info/www/bejne/qnSmhXuvjLuraKM

[@whyOyouTEEuBEEe]

@@e-dod oh ok I was totally lost lol thanks man I appreciate all your input

[@e-dod]

@@whyOyouTEEuBEEe No problem! I realize now how it can be confusing so I added a pinned comment to this video. Really glad you asked!

[@bobbydelamar606]

Where did you get the 45 deg.? Is it tunable thru Hondata? I've heard the K24A2 responds good at 30 deg before vtec and tapering down to 20 deg at the top end.

[@e-dod]

I got mine from King Motorsports. It is tunable through Hondata. And you are correct about the 'tapering down' the main benefit to the 45deg is in the midrange.

[@bobbydelamar606]

@@e-dod Thank you. I'm definitely gonna do that and the Type S oil pump and cooler. The engine is in my 1989 CRX.

[@e-dod]

@@bobbydelamar606 that's gonna be an awesome setup in the CRX! Also, not sure if you have seen 4piston sells a nice Type S oil pump kit for k24 that has a ported oil pump that flows even more. Wish I would have done that on my car.

[@bobbydelamar606]

@@e-dod OH a ported pump! Thank you I will go check that out.

[@averyalexander2303]

@@bobbydelamar606 Porting the pump yourself isn't hard, there's several videos on how to do it.

[@MarkLorentz]

How about telling us what size & type of 'Star" bit for the bolts on the VTC ? How obvious is that ?

[@e-dod]

T30

[@Daniel-xq7ny]

Hi. There are some videos out there regarding the Honda K24 and K20 engines, where they open up the front cover of the VTC actuator and than just take out the actual lock pin spring and stretch it and then they place it back in. Many claim that no more rattle after. What do you think about that? Thanks

[@e-dod]

I would personally do that if I had the annoying rattle. I don't think it would hurt to stretch it since the oil pressure at run time of the engine should easily overcome any additional spring pressure from the stretching. I am not an engineer of course though, just some guy on the internet 😁

[@Daniel-xq7ny]

@@e-dod Ya I would stretch it only 1/8 of the previous total length and also polish the lock pin, (smooth out all rough edges if so) . Then reassemble everything.

[@e-dod]

Sounds like a good plan. Would be interested to know if it works for you.

[@rubenalcantara4978]

Varnish inside the lock pin whole has accumulated thus the lock pin can hardly placed itself in the hole to lock

[@rubenalcantara4978]

Clean-out varnish (since it is sticky) accumulated in the hole so the lock pin could go thtough to lock

[@kesu90]

What is the torque spec for the 4 t30 bolts? Any recommendation to prevent stripping them? I stripped one!

[@e-dod]

Wow! sorry to hear that. I wasn't able to find a torque spec from Honda. Maybe 20 ft-Ib with some blue loctite. You could even use red loctite if you want to be 100% safe. Might not come apart later though lol.

[@caseyalexander2244]

Replace the security bolts with regular hex head bolts in M6x1x30 size and torque to 10 ft lbs/120 in lbs and use blue threadlocker made for oily surfaces.

[@balazsbanhalmi]

@@e-dod operational engine temperatures would be high enough to soften even red loctite, no?

[@e-dod]

@@balazsbanhalmi the factory bolts appeared to have blue loctite. Then engine should run below 200 deg. I don't think the cam gear is going to get close to 450 degrees to soften the read loctite.

[@caseyalexander2244]

@@balazsbanhalmi Actually no Loctite is needed, but even and proper torque between 8-10 ft lbs each bolt, and in a star pattern is necessary.

[@dirtrider5001]

awsome video! i believe after torquing it should then be put into the locked position before setting timing correct?

[@e-dod]

That is correct

[@yaggs8941]

What about if a limiter pin is used? Is there risk of those cracking when torquing cam bolt on an unlocked VTC? There's alot less surface area on a limiter pin. Anyone ever hear of this happening?

[@e-dod]

That's a good point. The consensus in the comments is that if you are holding the cam itself, as opposed to the teeth of the cam gear, when torquing you should be fine either way since its not putting rotational pressure on the innards of the cam gear.

[@bernardaflores1720]

Are you not supposed to lock the cams before you tighten the VTC bolt??

[@e-dod]

You have to lock them before you set the timing. But service manual says to have them unlocked when tightening the bolt.

[@wickedsatan1]

Is that 45 deg OEM or DC?

[@e-dod]

Its from Drag Cartel. I don't think there is an OEM one.

[@krishall3187]

same goes for toyota vvt. seams like the are are made the same

[@mario17623]

Wish I seen this video before I tried doing the compressed air and I dropped the chain now made job harder -_-

[@e-dod]

Sorry to hear that! Hope you got it sorted out. The compressed air is still what Honda recommends, but its helpful to know how the gear works.

[@shoosh9996]

Why is it locked in the first place? Prevent shipping damage?

[@e-dod]

Not sure, but its very easy to lock it just by gently turning it. I would think even if it wasn't shipped locked it might arrive locked just from moving around in shipment.

[@delapaloma6934]

I think I installed mine locked and when I went to start the car heard a weird noise think it caused it

[@e-dod]

Did you hold the cam with a wrench when you torqued it down? If you held the cam you should be good even if it was locked. After discussing with some others in the comments here we came to the conclusion that its only risky if you hold the teeth of the gear and torque it down in the locked position.

[@breedib]

I have 2016 hrv, my vtc actuator rattles a little bit in cold mornings or when the car is parked on a steep terrain, can you please tell me what kind of series is my vtc actuator?

[@e-dod]

I know Honda redesigned them sometime around 2010 and when they redesigned the rattle started. Some people on here have said they stretched out the spring inside and it fixed the issue. I would do more research first before trying something like that. Your issue does not seem that bad, I have heard of cases where it rattles very loudly for a few seconds on every start up. My Dad used to have a CRV and the rattle pretty much went away when he ran Mobile 1 5w-30 with a Honda oil filter. So maybe experiment with some different oils and see if it helps.

[@spring-start]

just replace the spring. Spring-Start vtc.

[@1Mannco]

@@spring-start I'm in the process of doing that with my 2010 Accord EX 2.4 4 cyl and I just replaced the timing chain, tensioners, guides and did a valve adjustment. It still rattles but maybe 20% less on cold starts and I just found out about the VTC spring issue after all the work was done. So I hope this spring and kit fixes the issue so the chain doesn't stretch or anything plus I don't care for the rattle sound.

[@spring-start]

​@@1Mannco Sounds good. Make sure you use OEM parts. The others don't seem to last. For the R44 VTC Actuators we also recommend the spring and seal kits to get the actuator back on spec.

[@1Mannco]

@@spring-start Thanks...I've ordered all that from you in the last 2 days and also had a couple emails with you. You're sending me now the correct spring and seal kit I hope for my 2010 Accord EX 2.4 4 cyl. I'll write some good reviews after everything is done and let many people at my work that drive Honda's know about it.

[@tylhunt]

I don't see why there would be any force on the pin while torquing the gear down.

[@e-dod]

Have had a few conversations about it in the comments here and have come to the conclusion there won't be any force on the pin while torquing unless you hold the gears of the VTC while torquing the gear to the cam. Most people remove the cam and hold it with two wrenches so not an issue. However, I am thinking Honda may have advised to never torque the gear down locked just in case someone decided to hold the gear.

[@hkd502patriot2]

Hey is it ok to run it at 45*

[@e-dod]

45 is the max on K24a with stock compression & cams.

[@thatbluefa5913]

In the manual for my k20z3 it says to make sure its locked before installing the timing chain so i dont understand why everyone says to unlock it

[@e-dod]

Yes, you should lock it when timing the engine so your timing is accurate. The factory service manual says to unlock it when torquing the gear down on the cam.

[@robkenna2795]

Im not a engineer and im sure honda has a reason.but when you are tightening gear there should be no stress put on the locking mechanism. You are just clamping inner part of vtc to the camshaft, the outer part of gear with lock mechanism is just floating. feel free to argue and correct me but its pretty basic mechanical theory

[@e-dod]

I'm no mechanical engineer either. Now that you mention it though, I think it would only put stress on the locking mechanism if you held the gear in place by its teeth while torquing the bolt down. So maybe Honda said to unlock it as a precaution in case someone did that? Easier to tell the techs to always unlock it as opposed to saying only unlock it if you plan to torque it down while holding the teeth of the gear 😄

[@robkenna2795]

@@e-dod yep i agree, ideally when you tighten the vct bolt you are having an assistant holding the cam with a wrench on a towel lined bench as you work torque wrench . But if someone tried to tighten the bolt with the cam in the engine using the timing chain to try to hold things fast i totally see where mucking things up could happen. Not trying to undo your theory and i would def recommend to anyone that following hondas suggestion to have it unlocked until the bolt is torqued is the way to go

[@e-dod]

@@robkenna2795 Agreed! Appreciate you sharing your thoughts.

[@spring-start]

You don't want to put stress on the locking pin when torqing.

[@joecool9756]

This makes no sense, If you were holding the teeth while torquing the bolt then yes, the pressure would be right between the two mechanisms..but you are holding the cam while torquing the bolt! so with it locked or unlocked the pressure is between the inside mechanism and the camshaft directly attached. you can prove this -- while torquing the bolt tight the 2 mechanisms will float related to each other (if its unlocked)

[@woznaldo]

I’ve been scrolling through the comments to see if someone else has picked this up. Thanks for pointing it out. Like you state, you should be holding the camshaft on the hex section and torquing the cam gear with the timing chain off. There’s absolutely no reason to hold the gear by it’s teeth or any special tool that might pickup on the 4 retaining cap screws. It was cool to see the inside of the VTC gear though.

[@tgatrelic7331]

If u look at the RZA and R40 VTC they’re different. Could I use the R40 VTC on my RZA? Better yet is there anyone who will machine these VTCs? I’d like a little more advance and retard TBH. I need to find the info of how much advance and retard these VTCs have. Anyone have any info? I’m new to K24s.

[@e-dod]

I know that drag cartel modifies them. That's where I got mine: dragcartel.com/products/modified-vtc-cam-gear